TUP EP 077
Nomination: [00:00:00] My name is Heather Garcia and an uplifter to me is someone who shows up ready to help in any way that they can.[00:00:15]
Aransas: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast. I am just beyond excited to introduce you today to somebody who, has inspired the way I live and lead for many years now. [00:00:30] Her name is Gail Tifford, and she is widely recognized as a trailblazer in the marketing and media industries. I met her when she was working at Weight Watchers, where she really led our brand transformation from one that was focused on weight [00:00:45] loss to one that was focused on holistic wellness.
Before that, she was a a massive influence on the Unilever brands, When you talk about Gail, I think the first [00:01:00] sound people make is, Gail, because Gail is somebody who has always been in positions of big influence because she's really smart and she's really [00:01:15] good at being strategic and building teams and inspiring vision.
But it's the way she's done these things that I think is sort of radical, that she didn't do any of them in a [00:01:30] stereotypical way, but in this deeply authentic way. What really sort of startled me watching Gail come into our organization was here was this really smart, really gorgeous woman with all this really [00:01:45] exciting background and big ideas, who was just a human being, who was willing to share her story vulnerably and authentically, who made us all feel safer being [00:02:00] vulnerable and authentic.
challenged us to think about our why and to use that as a filter for how we lived in lead. And so it's just a real privilege to get to [00:02:15] catch up with you, to get to share your story with our audience, because I just know That it will have ripple effects that we can't even imagine. Gail, thank you for hanging out with me today.
Gail: Oh my God. First of all, when I got your email, [00:02:30] it was just a moment of joy, like looking back on the time that we had together and the work that you did at the company. And now seeing you do this with your podcast and your newsletter and just celebrating uplifters. I love what you're [00:02:45] doing and I feel honored that you would even reach out to me.
Aransas: I will tell you when I met with my board of directors to brainstorm our first guest, your name was on the top five list Julie Fleischer day one [00:03:15] said, well, you know who you have to talk to? The ultimate uplifter, Gail Tiffer. So you are going
Gail: to make me cry.
Aransas: You are known and admired for your way of leading and as an uplifter. So for folks who've listened to this [00:03:30] show for a while, they know that I created the show because I believe that we all get more courage by hearing stories of courage.
And you were, as I said, the first executive I ever heard talk about leading with purpose. [00:03:45] And so I'm curious who or what first inspired you to start thinking about the power of purpose and making your decisions about purpose. Life and work.
Gail: Yeah. You know, I mean, I, I feel super [00:04:00] fortunate because I grew up at Unilever and you never realize how good you have it until you leave.
But one of the things that I love so much about Unilever was our CEO, Paul Pullman, [00:04:15] who not only believed in the best leaders were leaders who really understood their personal purpose, but also brands. With purpose and that it wasn't enough to market to consumers, you had to [00:04:30] matter to people and that brands had a responsibility to give back to the communities that they take from when you look at the iconic brands like Dove or Ben and Jerry's.
I mean, they just really changed the way [00:04:45] that marketing is done.
Aransas: So how do you describe your personal purpose or mission?
Gail: So what I will say it's changed over time. And I think I often tell people to really, you know, think about it every kind of [00:05:00] whether it's every few years or every big life change, because your purpose should be evolving.
And You know, my purpose now that I'm in the talent business is really helping people see things in [00:05:15] themselves that they never saw before, especially women. There are so many women that when I call them about roles, they say, I don't know if I'm ready for that. Or I don't know. Whereas men will be like, Oh, I could do that even if they don't have any of the experience.
[00:05:30] And that's, that's Part of what I love doing is helping people see that they are ready and that they can do this, and pushing them and encouraging and championing them to do that. It's funny, when we were at Weight Watchers, and I say this all the [00:05:45] time, Mindy Grossman saw something in me that I didn't see in myself, and she took a risk by taking me out of a company like Unilever and putting me in as the Chief Brand Officer.
I mean it was a huge risk and I thank her every [00:06:00] day for doing that because when someone sees something in you that you don't see in yourself you're just filled with a lot of gratitude and so it's kind of how I want to give back now.
Aransas: Wow and it is a profound identity shift. When we are [00:06:15] reflected back in ways that are beyond our own imagination, talk more about this current role that you're in and what you mean by being in it in the talent game and the opportunity that gives [00:06:30] you to create these ripples.
Gail: Yeah. So I joined true search almost two years ago and we are a global talent advisory and search company. I get to talk to amazing people all day [00:06:45] long and really help these companies find the right talent. Because I think for a long time, there was a lot of focus on skills and capabilities, but the focus on culture fit and leadership, you know, there, there wasn't as much [00:07:00] focus.
And to me, A lot of people can do the job. It's how they get it done, how they influence, how they collaborate. That is critical. It's easy, obviously, to assess skills and capabilities, but then understanding the culture of the [00:07:15] organization and the leadership, can this person really succeed in that role? And so, I call a lot of people all day long as I'm thinking about roles and especially women saying, I think this would be a great [00:07:30] opportunity and nine out of 10 times, especially if it's a promotion for them, they'll say, well, I don't know if I'm ready.
And then I say, well, then it's my job to get you ready. But think about the decisions that people make in their life, who [00:07:45] they marry, if they marry, how many children they have, if they have children, where you work is up in those top five decisions, you know, it impacts your day to day, it impacts where you live, it impacts your mood, it impacts wealth [00:08:00] creation.
And I feel super grateful that people entrust me with these conversations and these decisions.
Aransas: sort of comforting to know that you're searching for executives. So you're [00:08:15] talking to people who've had a lot of success in their careers and who have evidence that they're smart and impactful and who care about their career and that they too have these limiting beliefs that say, am I smart enough?
[00:08:30] Am I good enough? Am I worthy enough?
Gail: Yep. And there's some truth to people who say the, the closer you get to the top, the lonelier it gets. Hmm. And I actually, [00:08:45] I think it's only lonely if you're not willing to share your vulnerabilities. Maybe I'm an overshare, but I think the more that you share and the more that you can be vulnerable, you find it's not lonely.
You're not lonely at all. No matter [00:09:00] what position you're in, there are people who are going through kind of similar things. So I think it's just really critical as, you know, you think about people leading organizations, you know, your teams want to trust you and they're only going to trust you if you [00:09:15] open your heart to them.
Aransas: Was it hard for you to share your story as a leader?
Gail: I felt in my heart of hearts it's something I needed to do and had to do. There were some conflicting points of view on my board of advisors on whether [00:09:30] that was appropriate for me to do. But at the end of the day, and I say this to everybody, you have to speak your truth.
And it was something that was really important to me. And it created an outpouring of love and support in a way I never could have [00:09:45] imagined.
Aransas:every time I am just really honest about what's happening, I feel less lonely. I feel more understood.
I [00:10:00] receive more support. And I feel much more connected and engaged than when I'm kind of like play acting that I'm one thing instead of a human being who has a job. Yep. [00:10:15] What are the stories that have most influenced who you are as a leader?
Gail: Yeah, I mean, look, unfortunately, the most defining story has been one of [00:10:30] personal tragedy and loss, but it very much has defined me as a human being, which in turn defined my leadership.
I'll try to keep this short and without a ton of tears, but as you [00:10:45] know, when I was pregnant with my daughter, who's now 21, about to be 22, my son was two years old and my husband was diagnosed with stage four testicular cancer and basically given a 5 percent chance of survival. We [00:11:00] ended up getting my husband into a nine month, uh, high dose chemo stem cell experimental protocol at Sloan Kettering.
I was induced with my daughter because we didn't know if he'd be alive to see her birth. And we [00:11:15] experienced a miracle. He made it through. My daughter was born and my children had the, the great fortune of having a mom and a dad raising them. The tides turned, unfortunately, many years later in [00:11:30] 2021, almost 20 years later, when my husband was diagnosed with, um, esophageal cancer.
And it was in the spring of 21. And by the fall, we knew that he probably would not [00:11:45] make it through the end of the year. So I made one of the biggest decisions of my life, which was to step down from the job that I loved more than anything. And he, I felt like I had worked my whole life for that job as the chief brand [00:12:00] officer at WW, and I stepped down to take care of him and to be there with him and he passed away in December of 2021.
So you go through something like that and it changes who [00:12:15] you are. You see the fragility of life. You see the suffering of somebody who you love. You see your children suffering. And it really makes you live your life in a very different way. You have much less, uh, tolerance [00:12:30] for bureaucracy and an immense sense of gratitude that.
I had 30 years with the most incredible loving man. My children knew their father. There was a [00:12:45] point where I thought I would be raising my children alone. And so I chose, instead of feeling victimized, to feel gratitude and love. And it has really [00:13:00] reshifted my focus on what I do and how I do it and how I prioritize my time and who I prioritize my time with.
Aransas: It's both a heartbreaking and extraordinarily loving [00:13:15] story. What you just said about choosing gratitude. Over a victim story, we do always have that choice, don't we? Yes. We can feel like this life is happening to us, or we can [00:13:30] celebrate the abundant gifts. When you were making that decision to leave, and I think that had to have been a difficult decision, what did that conversation sound like in your own mind and with your most trusted?[00:13:45]
Gail: I was not going to let my husband be alone at the end of his life. And so that [00:14:30] decision was really easy for me, where the conversation came in was how I would express that.
And there were a lot of people who was like, why are you putting your personal story into, you know, the professional reason? And, and I said, [00:14:45] people don't talk about things enough. And like, I want other people to know if they're going through this, that it's okay. It's okay to choose your family over your career.
Aransas: That is okay. I think it's so interesting, this [00:15:00] idea that telling the truth is going to be distracting. And actually, I think the inverse is much truer, that mystery leaves people's minds wandering and in the absence of a true story, we will make up story [00:15:15] because we are wired for story. And it ultimately just ends up a waste of everyone's energy.
To not tell the truth and
Gail: I can't tell you how many people share their story with me because I've shared mine and you realize when you've gone through something like this, how many people. have gone [00:15:45] through so many things in their lives and just by opening up and talking about it, you're creating bonds that shape your future.
Aransas: It's so powerful. the big reminder here is that honesty, and I even hesitate to call it [00:16:00] vulnerability. A guest brought that up a while back on an episode that the word vulnerability sort of feels like we're putting ourselves in a position to be judged. Yeah. But I think it's just, Truth, right?
Telling the truth is not a liability. It is a strength. [00:16:15] And to get comfortable with telling the truth frees up so much energy, creates more trust, and it's actually a superpower that so many of us are taught to withhold from ourselves.
Gail: Yep. I'm too old for that now anyway. [00:16:30] I'm like.
Aransas: I've got the time.
Gail: Whatever. If you don't like me, I'm sorry. I am who I am.
Aransas: Talk about some of the ways that you have created opportunities [00:16:45] to mentor and strengthen other women.
Gail: When I was at Unilever, and it's crazy to think like this was so before it's time before ERGs were a thing, you know, I was sitting or talking to some women that I worked with, [00:17:00] and we were like, there were some things that we couldn't wrap our head around.
So for example, we didn't have any rooms. And now it's like, of course, it's, you know, 10 years later, We had done all this research on the messy middle and why women [00:17:15] were dropping out of the workforce, but we were doing nothing about it to keep them there. I sat down with some of the women who were my peers and said, like, why don't we do something about this?
And so we created Unilever's first female [00:17:30] business resource group. We joked, we called it galvanized and they said, well, you really wanted to be galvanized. What was really about understanding why women were dropping out of the workforce and how we could keep them in. So [00:17:45] , we really understood that there were massive barriers to keeping women in the workforce.
Women were breastfeeding and they needed to pump in the office. Why wouldn't we solve for that? If we knew women were having a massive [00:18:00] confidence crunch, you know, between the manager and director level, why shouldn't be, we be adding workshops and coaching? So I think that's where I got the bug. And then when I saw the impact that that could have, I wanted [00:18:15] to make an even bigger impact.
And how do you do that outside the walls of Unilever? And that's where hashtag see her was really born, you know,I was at that point in the media role at Unilever, I felt [00:18:30] super fortunate to be at, you know, the one of the world's largest advertisers have access to everything that I did, and felt their sense of responsibility to do something with that position.
And when I really was thinking [00:18:45] about gender equality and women in the workforce, it was like a light bulb went off that. Media and advertising have such a major role to play in culture and how women and girls see themselves. It was sort of like, well, wait a minute, [00:19:00] if media creates culture and I work in media, I can actually create culture and change culture.
And it was just a huge aha moment. And I was with my friend Shelly Zalas from TFQ and my friend. [00:19:15] Patty Kerr. And we brought the ANA on board and we said, look, we have a responsibility to do something here. And we kind of put our brains together and, you know, hashtag see her was born. And the first call that I [00:19:30] made was to Mark Pritchard, my biggest competitor, the CMO of Procter and Gamble.
And I said, if we're really going to change the world, Like we need to walk hand in hand. And then AT& T and Verizon came on and then Citibank [00:19:45] and Chase came on. And it just was really one of the most extraordinary, you know, things that I've ever experienced.
Aransas: Incredible. And what has been the result of that?
Gail: I mean, now it's eight years later, the way that [00:20:00] we, you know, are able to measure content and creative. And, you know, when you look at the scores, I mean, every big advertiser is scoring their creative. Um, we've totally changed the trajectory and you'll see, [00:20:15] you know, a lot of advertising content truly and accurately portraying, uh, girls and women.
Aransas: And not portraying an idea of women.
Gail: Yeah. Perpetuating
Aransas: these stereotypes. That's right. And I know that's, that's [00:20:30] continued to be a focus for you and, and your work.
Gail: Yeah. And now I'm thinking about what's next. So I, I feel like that, that's under great control now. So I'm now thinking, how can I make even bigger impact?
So [00:20:45] chapter two, uh, I'll fill you in on the next time. Aransas: What, what ideas are you flirting with? Well, just think I went from Unilever to the United States and now I want to impact the world.
Aransas: That's really exciting. And if anyone can do it, it's you [00:21:00] because people want to follow you, Gail.
Because you're honest and you're not wasting all this energy masking. There's that recent study that came out, I think it was Google, right? Who did that big study of their employees and found that [00:21:15] the number one predictor of success in a team was a sense of psychological safety. And I think that's what truth does is it creates psychological safety and mystery creates the [00:21:30] opposite of that.
I'm so glad I got to spend this time with you. Thank you for hanging out with me today, Gail.
Gail: Thank you for coming back into my life and thank you for doing this and inspiring so many people. I mean, talk about [00:21:45] scalable impact. So I just, you know, we need more people like you, Aransas, in this world.
Aransas: Thank you, my friend.
For those of you who are listening. Go, love on somebody who inspires you. Tell your story, be [00:22:00] vulnerable and honest, galvanize a solution when you see a problem. Thank you for listening to the uplifters podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please share them with the uplifters in your life and [00:22:45] then join us in conversation over at the uplifters podcast. com. Head over to Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast and like, follow, and rate our show.
It'll really help [00:23:00] us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mm,
Music: big love painted water, sunshine with rosemary. And I'm [00:23:15] dwelling. Not perplexing though. You find it ing. Toss a star in half for be around best love for relish in a new prime land, a tree in springtime dance.
With that [00:23:30] hindsight, bring the sun to twilight. Lift you up, whoa,
Lift you up, whoa, Lift you [00:23:45] up, whoa, Lift you up. Lift you up, woah, lift you up, [00:24:00] woah, lift you up, woah, lift you up, do do do do, do do do do do. [00:24:15] Beautiful.
It's that little thing you did with your voice. Right? In the pre chorus, right? I was like Mommy, stop crying. Mommy,
Gail: stop
Music: crying. You're
Gail: disturbing the
Music: [00:24:30] peace.