Nomination: [00:00:00] I'm Rachel Lipson, being an uplifter means taking every opportunity that you have to uplift other people, other women, [00:00:15] entrepreneurs, other mothers, anybody you can to share your knowledge and learn from as many people as you can and make the world a better place.
Aransas: Welcome to the Uplifters Podcast, I'm Miranda Savas and every [00:00:30] week I get to talk to interesting and inspiring women who live lives of purpose.
Today's guest, Heather Hester, was recommended by Candy Mozak, who you met on an earlier episode. And [00:00:45] I got super excited about Heather's mission because what she's talking about is how we support and parent our queer kids. Heather and her mission really resonate with me and I have a feeling they're going to resonate with you.
She calls herself [00:01:00] Chrysalis Mama and she is a podcast host, an advocate, and I'm so excited to have her here with us today. Heather, welcome.
Heather: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I am delighted to be [00:01:15] here. How did this end up on your bingo card? I have four kids and my oldest, who is 24 now, came out as gay when he was 16.
So that's the short answer to that question. The somewhat longer answer to [00:01:30] that question is that I grew up evangelical Christian, very, very conservative. I married a Catholic boy, which was like, I mean, that was nuts. Like I had family members who just thought, Oh, well, that's it. This is [00:01:45] done, right? Little did they know.
You know, over time, my husband and I were like, well, we're going to try things a little bit differently. And, and some of the things were very conscious decisions. Other things were just, let's try this and see if it works. Like this feels better [00:02:00] for us, or, or this kid seems to need this type of support or parenting.
And so we really thought that we were pretty on top of things until our son came out and we were like, Oh my gosh, we are so not [00:02:15] prepared. We realized that we needed some support. There was a lot that we just didn't understand and that this kid had been trying to tell us things that we did not pick up on.
And [00:02:30] so not only did he come out as gay, which, you know, is not in and of itself like earth shattering or groundbreaking, right? But he, immediately just spiraled into this awful depression and was [00:02:45] really leaning on substances to help him cope. And there were like a million things that happened at once that were so incredibly difficult to understand, difficult to know how to support.
And having [00:03:00] three younger children also trying to kind of juggle that like, How do we do this? Right? What do we tell them? How much did they know? How do we continue supporting them as we are shifting and learning and evolving at a somewhat fast pace? [00:03:15] And so it was, you know, 18 months of pretty intense.
shifting and learning and frankly, just trying to keep our kid alive. I know that we are not the only family out there that needs support, that [00:03:30] just wants to understand whether they have a kid who is queer or not, that just wants to learn, wants to be a support for whether it's a student in their classroom or their niece or nephew or their neighbor down the street.
Right. And [00:03:45] so that's really when I started this and it started very much as a resource website and I named it crystal using the word chrysalis is very intentional. I have always loved butterflies. So it was [00:04:00] particularly magic for me to use the whole idea of the chrysalis and transformation because I very much have gone through that and I feel like everyone is capable of that.
That's kind of always my thing. I did it. So if I can do [00:04:15] it, anyone can do it, right? I believe in humans to be able to do that. I felt a great way to reach more people. And to connect with more people is to start a podcast. And I think probably similarly to you, like we have these like big, beautiful ideas.
[00:04:30] And I think if I'd given it any more thought, I would never have done it, but I was like, this is a good idea. I'm going to start a podcast. I, this is fantastic. And I am not an extrovert by any stretch of the imagination. But it's [00:04:45] been around for five years and it's a top 1 percent podcast and I was, have been, I still to this day have been amazed by the reception and the people that, as you know, you don't often know [00:05:00] how many people are hearing it, how many people are really moved or touched or helped or supported by what you're sharing with the world.
And. So it's still every time someone reaches out, I think, Oh, [00:05:15] yeah, this is why I do this, right? And it was such a passion project to do all of this that a year or so later when I Realized oh, this could actually be what I do for my life. I was like, oh [00:05:30] This is so fantastic. So I wrote a book and I published my first book in the spring and I coach and I speak and I do all these things.
So it is very joyful for me. I am still learning and evolving [00:05:45] every single day. I believe that we all, you know, evolve until we are no longer on this plane. So there's my story and I'm crying because I am highly emotional right now. [00:06:00] What are the tears? When I think about the journey of eight years now, which is so wild to think about, like, when I do sit and think, like, pictures will pop up, and I think, like, the extraordinary [00:06:15] change and, What we have learned and what I, just a singular person, have healed from and then learned to be able, like the capacity to hold, right?
I [00:06:30] do get overwhelmed with it and I think, you know, just being where we are in the state of the world right now, and I'm just, I am a highly sensitive person, so I, I feel it all, I express it all. I always have always said, if you need somebody to cry with you, [00:06:45] I am here to cry with you. That's just, I feel like one of my, one of my gifts on this earth.
Aransas: What a gift. Yeah. Yeah. To feel it, to honor it, to name it, to create brave space for [00:07:00] it. Exactly. So, this has been a tremendous journey for you and your family. What are some of the biggest ways you personally have changed through this journey? [00:07:15]
Heather: Oh my goodness, so many ways, how much time do you have? I think in the most simple terms, I've really shifted 180.
So when I think about, you know, who I was 10, [00:07:30] 15, 20 years ago, I was still very much in a space of, I was very fearful all the time because for multiple reasons, but fear was very much a top line driving force for me. [00:07:45] I'm not going to be a good enough parent. I'm going to go to hell. Like that literally was kind of at the top of everything.
I'm going to hell for sure. There is very much of this deep desire to please. I was for sure a people pleaser, [00:08:00] but not just people in general, my parents specifically. And so there was always this, like, I've got to make them happy. Like, I've got to do something that's, they're going to be proud of. And so I think like for me, one of my [00:08:15] very defining moments in time, but really on this journey happens right at the very beginning.
Connor came out to us in a very dramatic way. We happened to be on a couple's trip literally across the country and he had run away [00:08:30] and we couldn't find him for a number of hours. And my parents actually happened to be staying with our four kids. when we finally tracked him down in the middle of the night.
And of course, you know, at that point, like, and I was just like, [00:08:45] I was so grateful that his voice was there, that I, that we had found him, that he had answered the phone and he was just like, mom, I've got to tell you something. And I was like, what? And he's like, I am gay. And I was like, well, thank God, because I thought you were [00:09:00] dead.
And that literally was like, in that moment, I remember like standing there thinking, there's no way this kid's going to help. That that cannot be true. It just could not. And I remember just thinking, of course this is [00:09:15] fine that you're gay. Like this is fantastic. Cause you know, as a parent, your mind goes like in a thousand directions of what possibly could have been, right?
So then if that took me on very much of a deconstructive journey. Which I am still [00:09:30] on personally, but then as you begin to learn all of these things, you start questioning all of these pieces of your belief system that you didn't even realize you have. I used to vote in a very different way, but I never really thought about how I was [00:09:45] voting.
Like it didn't occur to me. I just voted because that's the way my parents told me to vote and I wanted them to be happy. And the more I learned, the more I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so detrimental to me. So many different things that [00:10:00] are important to me. So it was this allowing of. my own individuality, like me as a person, instead of as an extension of them.
So the more that I learned and the more that I allowed myself to [00:10:15] evolve, the more I was like, well, I'm kind of cool. I like who I am and I am capable of all of these things over here. So that's where the tears come from. Cause I'm, I know you get the same joy when we look at our kids and we think [00:10:30] this is so great.
They're figuring all of the stuff out now. And we're giving them the space to learn all of this now, right, to be able to come to us and talk it through [00:10:45] the world that they are growing up in is very different than the world that we grew up in. So they're already faced with so many things that are different.
It has been such a joy that one of my. avenues of learning has [00:11:00] been through my kids and just like hearing what they have to say, like how they see the world, where they're getting their information and sharing it with me. Yeah. Right. It's not saying that they're right. Then what is right?
Aransas: Yeah. You make a really interesting [00:11:15] distinction.
Families used to be very top down organizations and Now, what so many of us have come to believe is that there is learning on all sides and that our kids can be our [00:11:30] greatest teachers and yes, we want to help them learn from our own experiences and what we've seen in the world, but we have just as much to learn from them and to benefit from that learning as much from them.
Heather: A thousand [00:11:45] percent. The way that our family units, the six of us, have also evolved, our relationships. Um, with one another, within the siblings as a group, with the six of us, with my husband and me has been [00:12:00] so cool and I'm so grateful for it because we would not have had this if we hadn't had all of that.
Aransas: And I think there, if you listen to the body of work that we've created on the uplifters, [00:12:15] you would take away two key lessons. Number one. is that you have a hundred proof points that through the most difficult and dark moments, the brightest lights and [00:12:30] the greatest beauty can be born. And number two, that it's usually with the support of other humans who get it.
And so your instinct to immediately find and create communities for [00:12:45] people to explore and learn together as families. It's just so true to what we've seen here. Because the answer is almost never pick away at the scab alone.
Heather: Oh my goodness. My tagline for the longest [00:13:00] time was you are not alone. It may feel like you are very isolated and, and you may actually be physically isolated, but you are not alone.
There are others.
Aransas: You talk about this The story of what you believed [00:13:15] around queerness prior to this experience was queer people probably go to hell.
Music: Yeah.
Aransas: And then once you gave it a face, it was hell no. Right. That [00:13:30] seems impossible.
Heather: It was something that I was taught and was just kind of in the subconscious.
And it was very much in that moment, like, there's no way, like, this is absolutely not true, like, I just felt it in my [00:13:45] entire being, it wasn't just in my, you know, it wasn't just cerebral, it was in my entire body that I felt it, and I was like, nope, that's not right. That absolutely is not right. And it's not.
I mean, I've done lots of research and lots of reading and lots [00:14:00] of, you know, all the things. But for people who, you know, that is their belief system or that is the belief system they were brought up with, that is something that is taught and that is something obviously that we know is out there because it is talked about in the evangelical circles.
I have [00:14:15] tried very, very hard with my own family of origin and they still are not affirming. We'll just say that. However, there are a lot of people out there who are, whether they have a child or family member [00:14:30] or they just are paying attention to the world and they're like, wait a second, this doesn't feel right.
I want to understand more. I am so open about my evolution over time because I think that gives others permission to [00:14:45] take a look inside. This is not saying that you need to, you know, unlearn bias is not a judgment call. It's a, you're a human being call. We all have them. So it's the taking a look at what those biases might be.
[00:15:00] and pulling them apart and working through them and healing from them.
Aransas: And it's a
Heather: process that it's messy and vulnerable and so worth it.
Aransas: Yeah. And I hear that it's worth it in terms of [00:15:15] the depth of connection you have as a family and the growth that you've experienced both individually and collectively, the impact and purpose you've been able to find.
Heather: And the connection that then you allow yourself with other human beings, [00:15:30] right? Because you're not constricted by all of that stuff. So then you, the judgment, yes, yes. I can learn about people and have conversations with people and [00:15:45] be in spaces and just kind of sit and soak it in and be like, this is amazing.
Aransas: What are some of the other. beliefs that you have encountered again and again through this work, that you've watched people [00:16:00] challenge or evolve.
Heather: I think that many people think that queer people have mental health issues because they are queer. And it is so important to me for people to understand that it is not because they are queer.[00:16:15]
Not every queer person struggles with mental health issues, depression, anxiety, you name it. So they're not synonymous, first of all. And second of all, it is typically Because of what is coming [00:16:30] at them all the time, and we don't realize it because we're not them. Right. And unless we put ourselves in spaces, right?
Like I, I will often put myself and do posts in different social media spaces because I know what's going to come [00:16:45] back at me. And I think it's really important for that stuff to come back at me because it keeps me. on my toes. And I rarely respond, but I think it's like a, it's kind of a good exercise to be like, you know what, this is what our kids, this is what [00:17:00] all queer people are getting on a daily basis.
Just these subtle and not so subtle messages, right? So this is why we continue doing the work that we do and advocating and supporting and loving and just holding space
Aransas: for. That's interesting. So I think what you're [00:17:15] saying is you put yourself in an Othered position in order to both raise awareness, but also to experience that [00:17:30] othering honestly.
Yes. Yeah. And it's interesting, isn't it? Like for people who have a choice to be able to do that, not everyone of course has that choice. Correct. But you're choosing to. To do.
Heather: And I will say [00:17:45] that was not always the case. I mean, the, for the first couple of years, like I would put stuff out there because I felt like, you know, it's important.
And I still do feel like it's important to put stuff out there, but I would like get this back and I'd be like wounded. And I would be, I'm not doing this anymore. And this is terrible. And oh [00:18:00] my gosh. And then all of a sudden I was like, it's like flipped. And I was like, oh no, this is actually really good because this is not even a percentage of a fraction.
Right. And so. This is, this is good for me to [00:18:15] understand this and I, like you said, this is I can make that choice. I have the privilege of making that choice. So then it extends into how am I using my privilege and how can we all use our privilege that we have [00:18:30] to support those who are othered.
Aransas: The reminder here.
is that it's everybody's problem.
Heather: It's everybody's problem.
Aransas: And you're either a part of the problem or the solution.
Heather: Correct. The more people who do step into that space, right, that's how you [00:18:45] make change, right? That's how you affect change or affect impact or, you know, whatever word you want to use there.
So yes, it is hard. The other, I think the thing that helps me also is, Of course, remembering why I'm doing this and always remembering [00:19:00] why I do all of the things that I do and that that is a statement about that person, right? It's not about me. None of this is about me,
Aransas: right? Right. It's not about you. We talk [00:19:15] so much about courage on this show.
Being an uplifter is an act of courage in its own right. And We all have fear, like you described at the beginning, right? And they can be [00:19:30] existential fears, like, am I going to burn in hell? Or they can be, am I going to be judged? Right. Am I going to be misunderstood? Am I going to do this wrong? Am I going to be unloved?
And those [00:19:45] fears can hold us back from achieving our full impact and potential in life. It is, I think, for many of us, the biggest struggle. And so one of the questions I am [00:20:00] really fascinated with is how women and uplifters find and build courage throughout our lives. And so you're somebody who has lived with a lot of courage, who has [00:20:15] actively invested In yourself and your courage, how did you find the bravery to come out of the advocacy closet?
Heather: Initially, it was [00:20:30] very much, I mean, almost like adrenaline driven. Very mama bear, like that mama bear energy, right? You're not really thinking about it so much as you are feeling it. And then as I began to grow and shift and do the inner work [00:20:45] that I needed to do and really come, you know, face to face and name those fears and my own biases and I realized that things that I had thought were like normal ways of handling things.
I mean, I was very [00:21:00] good at the functional freeze. Like that was my go to, right? Or dissociating and you know, certain family situations and like coming like face to face with my own coping techniques and understanding what they were and [00:21:15] that they weren't so healthy. That really helped me then learn.
things that were healthy. And it really helped me kind of go through like peeling back those layers and learning what I needed to do to [00:21:30] care for myself and really knowing myself, not who I was told to be, not who I thought I needed to be, but who I actually am. So that then allowed me to [00:21:45] into a whole nother level of, well, this is how I want to show up in the world.
And what do I need to do to consistently do that?
Aransas: How did you create distance between [00:22:00] the only stories you knew, which were the ones you'd been handed, in order to find the ones that were true for you?
Heather: Being vulnerable and putting myself out there, which allowed me to connect with other human beings. Who had different life experience [00:22:15] and who saw the world from a very different angle, a very different way, and really begin to learn
Aransas: from different people.
What do you think the most important [00:22:30] insight or idea is that people take away from your work, whether it be on your podcast or the talks that you give? What do people carry? It
Heather: is all very centered [00:22:45] around allyship and parenting a queer child and really holding space for them. And the thing that I kind of always circle back to, because typically people, what's the one thing that we can do?
Well, the one thing that you can do, and it sounds difficult, [00:23:00] but I think we overcomplicate is to just love them. to see them, to hold space for them, and to love them. Whether you have a queer child or not.
Aransas: I am so grateful for you and your work in the world. I'm so [00:23:15] grateful for your courage. Thank you.
Here's to openness. Here's to connection. Here's to welcoming in diverse points of views and allowing them all. Yes. To let us. Live and lead with more joy, yes, and more impact. [00:23:30] Thank you for listening to the uplifters podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join us in [00:23:45] conversation over at the uplifters podcast.
com head over to Spotify, Apple podcast, or. Wherever you get your podcast and like follow and rate our show, it'll really help us connect with more uplifters [00:24:00] and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories.
Music: Big love painted water, sunshine with rosemary. I'm dwelling, perplexing. [00:24:15] No, you find its star.
Be your own best lover, relish in a new prime, plant a tree in springtime, dance with adult hindsight, bring the sun to [00:24:30] twilight. Lift you up, whoa, lift you up, whoa, lift you up, [00:24:45] whoa, lift you up, whoa, lift you
Lift you up, whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, [00:25:00] oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Beautiful.
Aransas: I cried. [00:25:15]
Music: It's that little thing you did with your voice. Right, in the pre chorus, right? I was like Mommy,
Heather: stop crying. You're disturbing the peace.