Hello and welcome to The Unique CPA with your host, Randy Crabtree. We're committed to creating a thriving community of accounting professionals who are physically and mentally healthy, fulfilled, and energized by their work. Our ultimate goal is to elevate the reputation of the accounting profession and vastly improve the lives of those in it. The Unique CPA is brought to you by Tri Merit, the specialty tax professionals. Today, our guest is Kelly Rohrs. I'm very excited about this.
I got to meet Kelly at a conference, this past fall. We were both speaking at the Maryland Society of Accounting and Tax Professionals and had a great time. I had heard Kelly's name before that, so it was great to meet her in person. But to give you a little background, Kelly is a founder of her own CPA firm. she hosts the podcast. it seems to be a theme recently. I've been having a lot of Podcast host on this podcast, but she hosts a podcast, or co hosts, called Zero to Millions.
Very important. She was recently named by CPA Practice Advisor, Top 40 Under 40, which is congratulations on that. And, Kelly. Welcome to The Unique CPA. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it's and I was, I didn't mention this, I got to be a guest on your podcast too, so thank you for that. That was a lot of fun. We had fun. It was good. So again, just to reiterate, congratulations on the 40 under 40. That's pretty cool.
Is that, I don't even know the process you go through on that. You want to explain it? Sure, so, you know, I think I was nominated by several other CPAs in the field. I think I've been nominated in years past, so it was a big surprise for me and just really an unreal feeling to be recognized on a national level and like, what an honor. Yeah, that had to be pretty fun. So I gave you a quick background, a quick intro. There's a lot of things I didn't touch on.
I know there's other things you're doing. Why don't you expand on that? Give us a little more background on what's going on and even where you came from and how you got into this. Sure. So born and raised. On Long Island, probably will never leave even though I would love to, but all of my husband's family lives within a couple blocks of each other, so I don't think we're going anywhere. yeah, I have two children. I have a almost four year old and a one year old.
And I've been in practice for, you know, over a decade now in public accounting and I've been on my own with my own firm. It's just about three years. We're going to celebrate a three year anniversary. Nice. Before that, I was with a firm for almost 10 years. I thought that firm was going to be my forever home, but it did not pan out that way and I'm very grateful for my experience in the past and it wasn't meant to be, but I basically, I went out on my own and I didn't really have any business.
A little bit here and there. A couple of people followed me, but I was so, you know, busy working on somebody else's firm that I didn't really have the ability in that firm to go out and do my own thing. Right. But I had been building a presence on LinkedIn for several years before I left.
And connected with other CPAs all over the country, like, what are you doing, what is the best software, what's the best way to be efficient, and tried to, you know, get all these little tidbits from people who were already doing it. And took that leap of faith, and, you know, it's wild to think it's only been three years, cause it feels like forever. I don't know. Is that good or bad? I don't know. It's fun though. Right? You're enjoying it? Oh, I absolutely love it.
I wouldn't have it any other way. Like I, I always, you know, wanted to run my own business really, since I was a kid, I was always selling things. I made like handbags out of old jeans. I passed around babysitting flyers around the neighborhood. I tutored math to kids. Like I always had that hustle inside of me. I wonder, I should ask this question on the podcast because I wonder if that's a theme with a lot of people that start their own firm.
If the, if the entrepreneurial spirit was there from early on. I mean, I know I personally wasn't own business, but at age 12, I was doing a paper route, which you ran as your own business. Age 16, I started a window washing company. And so I think you kind of have it in you a lot of us that do that. So, so you definitely, definitely had that. I find it. Transitioning now, I'm going from like one sentence to the other just boom, fast. Let's go. I'll take a pause.
I find it really, intriguing and, and I'm very impressed by the fact that you reached out to others right away when you were starting your firm and it was software and it was, you know, efficiencies and all that. What are the, some of the key takeaways that you really, really found helpful when you started that firm?
I think it was just important to network with not only other CPAs, but other professionals within my network, putting yourself out there, like building authentic relationships with people, whether it be, you know, financial advisors, attorneys, other people in business, like that is really how I built my business through referrals until I started, you know, having more of a presence. Online. I wasn't really getting any direct business online.
I mean, I still don't get as much compared to the business that I get from other people in my network. So obviously, you know, what do we need to run a business? We need clients. That's like really, that's the biggest thing, right? I mean, I could, you know, use all this software in the world, but you still need to be able to obtain clients. So I think that was the biggest takeaway. But one thing you said there is being your authentic self.
I think that's something that people try to force it too much. And, and this is a big, and in fact, I just talked with someone, you know, right before you were talking about that and how important it is just to be yourself when you're talking to somebody. And if, if you enjoy. Cooking, talking about cooking with somebody.
If you connect with cooking with somebody else, they automatically, they know that's authentic or sports or whatever it is, or family and kids and kids sports and, and all this stuff. So for me, if you're going to go out and generate business, you can't be something you're not. And if you can just be yourself and be authentic, that is so much better. And you're going to get people you really enjoy working with. I assume you, you agree with that. A hundred percent.
I don't want to feel like any relationship is just built on sales or, you know, how many people I'm going to refer to you or, you know, handing my business card out. It's about being involved with good people who do share your values too. You know, it's great to share hobbies with other people and get along on that personal level. But like if you know that they're shady or if you don't agree with some things that they do, it's just not worth it to me. Like I want to. Work with good people.
I want to refer business to good people. Like it's about being genuine and like actually caring for people. Oh yeah, I completely agree. And I love hearing that. So, so let's talk about that a little bit because you've built best practices. You, from the start, we're trying to figure that out. one thing before I even go any further, I want to ask a question because, you know, getting the people that you enjoy working with that aren't a pain in the rear end, to be a part of. When you build it.
Are there certain niches you decided to concentrate on or at the, like most firms at the beginning you'll take on anybody, but at some point in time you, you find an area you like doing more. Has that been built into your practice at all? Great question. So from the firm that I worked with previously, we had a specialty in the medical and dental fields. Specifically, I worked with a lot of dentists, orthodontists. but mostly in professional services.
So when I went out on my own, I wanted to focus on dental, I wanted to focus on the medical field, but I actually happened to kind of, most of my practice is actually built off of attorneys. Okay. And it didn't really come to me. I wasn't like, Hey, you know what? I'm going to just focus on attorneys. Cause people say, Oh, you know, I have this niche and I know that this is what I want to do. And then other people say, I have no idea, but you know, I had a referral source.
That, you know, I have an attorney who refers me other clients. I have a attorney who refers me other attorneys, and then I have connected with a CPA out in Colorado where she just does the bookkeeping and accounting part of the services, and she started referring me a lot of the tax planning advisory service in return. So, you know, that really was a funnel. To get me into this specific niche. All right. And you enjoy attorneys At least I, I assume I do. All right.
Well, there, that's a good, that's a good, I actually most of them . Yeah, most of them . But the ones you don't, you don't have to work with. Exactly. Exactly. I did know this on your website, you did have a testimonial up there from an attorney. So I had a feeling attorneys was a niche that, you work with. Are you, a side note here. Are you familiar with Terrell Turner? I am. Yeah, he was 40 under 40 as well, wasn't he? He was, yes. We've done some fun things together with FloQast.
We've recorded a series with Drew Carrick and he's awesome. The reason I brought him up is because attorneys are his niche as well. So I thought, well, maybe there's a, the fact that, you know, building CPAs and, and another niche, I'm guessing there's some things that you guys could do together there as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Alright, so let's, let's pivot now from that. So, oh, you know what?
I don't want to pivot, because I'm loving this, this, we will pivot in a minute, but I want to do one other thing, because I'm intrigued, especially that you're three years in, I'm intrigued how people are building their practice these days, and I didn't warn you that this is a route we would go, so hopefully you're okay with this, but one of the things that I, and anybody that's listened to me talk before, knows I hate billable hours. I hate selling time. I love selling an outcome and a result.
Now I put you on the spot because if you're selling hours, then I will have to have this discussion. But from day one, how did you go about billing? Did you have a specific, or has it evolved over time? How's, have you been selling hours? Are you doing it on value? Are you doing a subscription? How are you looking at it? So funny enough, when you did ask me about the attorneys, I was going to say they actually understand the billable hour more than like other, you know, other areas.
Yeah. Other businesses, but no, I do not bill by the hour. I do bill, you know, on a, mostly on a subscription basis, whether it's like a monthly or quarterly engagement, you know, everything really varies and is customized to what the client needs because we do provide bookkeeping services to some people, not to others, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But most of it is, you know, flat fee upfront. I take all payment up front. Nice. The scope of our engagement is very clear.
Nice. You know, there's sometimes there's a project or two that might have to be built by the hour, but, That's fine. And it's understandable. And I've never been an auditor. I have done audits. I've never enjoyed auditing. And people tell me it's harder to do, you know, some services by the hour than others. Although audits, to me, feel like they're a fixed fee all the time anyways, but I might be wrong there, but there's some things that just need to go.
Okay. So, we're getting to my passion areas already, the niche, the billable hour, let's keep going down this road then. How about boundaries? Have you, do you have boundaries that you've set with your clients? I sure do.
I actually have like a client handbook that I created probably about two years ago and you know, it lists expectations of the client from our firm, what our response time is, you know, everything that we, you know, try to just make really clear to the client before they come on. Cause if they're not on board with billing upfront or they're not on board with our lead times, with the processing of the tax returns, then they’re not going to be a fit for us.
And I've also started creating boundaries in the last year with my lead process. Like we used to just, you know, really have free calls with people and, you know, that gets a little tricky. A lot of people just want some free advice on a phone call. And, you know, I know that my time is valuable. I've got two young kids. There's only 24 hours in a day, and I'm not working 24 hours. That's good.
So, you know, we have a vetting process for our leads and we actually charge a fee to have an intro call, to review returns before a client comes on to make sure that they're a good fit. So you're saying all the things I like to hear when a firm is starting up, so not that I'm the key to anything, it's just I, those are the things I've been hearing lately from these more modern startup firms that I think have been so important.
So, so let's go now pivot to where, you know, you and I discussed a little bit at the beginning what maybe we would go down. But you've learned so much, you know, from your years in the other firm, but probably a ton in the last three years, starting your own firm, but you have a passion now for sharing that knowledge with others in the profession. And that comes through in the podcast. But as I found out today, that also comes through in the fact that you're running.
Some mastermind groups as well. Before we go to the podcast, let's talk about the mastermind groups. How did that come about? And what's, you know, how many? Is there one? Is there multiple? And how many people in it? What's the type of topics? All, let's just give me a background on what's going on there with the masterminds. So, you know, really, it started stemming from social media.
And, you know, when I went out on my own, before I went out on my own, I was, posting to LinkedIn, but you know, it's really difficult to be consistent. And you know, as a firm owner, I was being consistent for a period of time. And I said, you know what, this is so much work. I need help now. So in order for me to continue to be consistent, I hired Katie Thomas at Leaders Online. Katie's been on the podcast. She's amazing.
I generate all of the ideas for my content and we sit on this call and I sit there, I'm like, I sent you my list. I got 20 topics to go over. This is what we're going to do. She makes it pretty. It's gorgeous. But you know, I come up with these ideas and most of the ideas, like it's not, I don't come up with the social media. For any intent for sales purposes, it really is genuine shower thoughts, thoughts about clients, thoughts about the industry.
And over the years, I've just happened to create a lot of content that resonated with other accountants. So again, it's not just about. Generating business, right? And as I did that, I built more of a following of other accountants and people started reaching out to me. How did you do it? How did you go out on your own? I'm thinking of going out on my own. Like, what did you use? What tax software? Like. How did you hire somebody?
And all these people are messaging me and like, it's an honor, but I'm also like, Hey, like I'm only in my third year business. Like I'm, I'm winging it here. Like I'm trying to make it work, but you know, after being approached so many times and people saying like, Hey, you are the reason that I went out on my own. Pretty impressive. And I built this successful firm, like, I actually like chills right now because it's just, it's so fulfilling. Yep. Oh, I understand. To help other people.
I really enjoy that kind of thing. So, so the mastermind grooms came out of that. Yeah, exactly. So basically, you know, I, a year ago I gave birth to my daughter in May of 2023. And in June I launched this mastermind. No overachiever or anything, huh? Yeah. Yeah. So it's just a monthly meeting where we have a topic. And I probably have, you know, a hundred CPAs on the mailing list, maybe 15 to 20 show up on the best, you know, best available date.
You know, there's, there's some dates like April wasn't, you know, so, so hot for people. but you know, we, we talk about. Issues that people are having within their practices. People ask questions. There's people who've been firm owners for 20 years in the group. There's people who are looking to go out on their own. There's newbies and we just kind of built this awesome. Group, community with, you know, people who support each other and it's really nice.
Yep. Community anywhere is so important. And, and the community in our profession, I mean, there's all kinds of little pockets of little communities, but the community and collaboration I think that happens in the accounting profession is unbelievable. There's so much knowledge sharing that I think is so important. And just to lift everybody up, help everybody. There's enough business out there. We don't have to hide things. I always say we're not in competition.
There's more than enough clients to go around. I mean, now more than ever. Oh yeah. So let's expand on that knowledge sharing then. So now you're doing this knowledge sharing through mastermind groups. Are you facilitating those groups or is it kind of just a group discussion? So I will facilitate and, you know, bring information in on new software that I'm hearing that people are using, different ways that we can address the shortage of staff members, all the fun stuff.
So I'll kind of get it going, bring things to the table and then let it kind of just be organic. Okay. That makes sense a lot. So where I was gonna go then, you are knowledge sharing through that group, but you're also doing that through the podcast, Zero to Millions, because the whole point of the podcast is to help the profession, at least the way I look at your podcast. And so, What do you try to do through the podcast?
So Bilal Mehanna, another, you know, fellow CPA who I've been connected with, actually he wanted to hire me before. When I quit my job and I went out on my own, I told him and he wanted me to come work for him and I said, no thank you, I'm going to do it myself, but we've been connected for many years and he approached me over the summer last year and I, he said, do you want to start a podcast? And I said, yeah, why not? You know, I don't say no to many bigger things often.
Clearly I have pretty lofty goals. So I said, yeah, let's do it. And, you know, we both wanted the mission to be helping other accountants and just bringing awareness. You know, to running a practice and what you can do really from zero to hopefully I will be at a million one day, but the guests on the podcast have been other firm owners, other thought leaders in the industry, and it's really to inspire people, you know, keep people looking at the glass half full.
Yeah. And so we can get the glass completely full. Yeah. So what are the major topics that are, the theme that maybe is the most recurring when you're talking about the podcast or what you seen as the most, the most need in the professions through the topics you're hearing in the podcast. So, you know, most people express the same issues.
You know, they're underpaid, they're working all of these long hours, they don't know to how to handle boundaries, you know, which really means they don't know how to frame their own mindset because really, once you change your mindset, the boundaries are, Easier. Yep. Easier to hold. But if you don't even realize that you can do those things, you know, people just think like, oh well I was at this firm and this is what we did, so this is the way I have to do it.
Like, you know that, oh, we always did it this way kind of attitude. The, the SALY, we are very same as last year mentality in this profession. And that's, I agree. It's something that has to change. We have to get out of that. And when we do, you're exactly right. We realize there is a better and different way to do things and we don't have to be on. Call 24 hours a day for our clients.
Exactly. And you know, I am preaching to the choir here, but like, I also, I say I, I hold a lot of boundaries and I do, but I still have my own issues with boundaries and, you know, family and it's tough. It's a tough industry when you have to deal with deadlines. Yeah, I hate deadlines. And I think, I don't know how we're ever going to get past that. That would have to be an act of Congress. Which is never going to happen.
No. So, you know, we hear a lot of common complaints on the podcast, you know, before they went out on their own, what kind of gripes they had with their previous. Employers, and a lot of it is the same, like resistance to use new software because it's so expensive to pay this monthly subscription when you don't realize how many hours of staff time it's going to cost you. Like, Oh, I don't want a bill up front. Oh, I don't want to increase fees.
Well, I mean, the answer is you have to increase your fees to pay for the staff, to pay for the software. And people are so resistant to that, but every year I've raised my fees and I've had no problem getting new business. And what you just said is a common theme, oh, I don't want to spend the money on the software, I don't want to spend the time and effort to get this software installed, hey, we're doing alright as is, so why would I change anything?
Well, because if you don't change, you're not going to be able to keep up because other people are going to start relying on software. And we have a built in, and I talked to somebody about this in the past, but we have this built in You know, really in as for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years that it's, Hey, you know, short term pain is a lot more of a problem for us than seeing the long term gain from something.
Because, you know, if you look at installing software, it's like, Oh, I'm going to take 20 hours and that's going to hurt. You don't look at the hundreds of hours it's going to save. And we got to get past that mentality because if we don't. You know, we can't compete in the profession. So I assume that's how you look at it. Absolutely. Yeah, everybody gets stuck in the cycle that they don't have any time to do things. So, you know, they're just stuck in the old ways.
And then here's the other issue I'm afraid of in the profession is as we start to implement these Softwares that are going to be time saving softwares, especially if we're in the old school of looking at hours, what are firms going to do? They're going to start reducing the fees because they got it done faster because software is assisted. Well, that's just that we've gained nothing then because now we're just going to work as much and to get the same amount of revenue and it has nothing.
And that concerns me. And I don't know how we get past that because there's going to be progressive firms like you and others that. Say, okay, I'm going to bill the same even though it's taken me half the time because I invested in technology and AI is going to be a big part of this, but there's always going to be those firms that say, well, I'm an hour mindset and so it took me less time, I'm billing less and I'll just have to work on more clients.
Do you have any opinion on where we're going to go with that? Well, hopefully people will listen to people like you and I, who, you know, I don't know who would refuse to bill appropriately and keep lowering fees unless they want to bring on a volume of clients, of which doesn't seem to really work out very well for people. No. I mean, that's really the problem. A lot of. Public accounting firms that do volumes of tax returns, right? It's like they don't charge high enough fees.
So there's not enough staff time. The staff's working all of this overtime to try to get it done by a deadline. Like it's not going to work, but I agree with you. I think, you know, if we leverage the technology, we're still performing the same job and it's still, you know, let's be honest, like AI Do a perfect tax return, unless it's maybe for somebody who has won W 2 and sometimes that's wrong.
So you still need the knowledge and the experience to provide more of an advisory and review on a tax return anyway. And I don't think AI is ever going to take that away from us. Nope, I agree, and it's just a matter of relying on that technology and staying where we are and hey, if it frees us up, fine, we're given the same results, there's no reason our fees should change just because our time was reduced.
If our results are the same, if we're given an outcome to a client, then that should be the same. So, those are the types of things then that are commonly discussed, I went on a tangent there, but commonly discussed on the podcast. Yeah, exactly. Alright, alright, so to me, and I'm going to start wrapping up, but this was a great, not that I want to, because I could keep talking to you all day, but I want to start wrapping up a little bit, but I think this is extremely important.
I love what you did at the beginning of building your firm and reaching out to others and reaching out to others in this profession is so easy. Just about anybody will talk to you. And so, so I think that's a great lesson. But then taking these best practices that others talk to you about and implementing that into your business to make sure you create this firm that does give you a work life balance, which is so important.
And then what I love seeing that you've even gone a step further in three years of having this practice is now share these best practices through others, with the mastermind groups and through the podcast and education there. Before I finalize this, I just want to give you an opportunity to kind of key in anything that I missed or wrap up what you see in the conversation we had today.
You know, anybody who's out there who's feeling stuck or like their practice is running them or they hate where their position is in public accounting, like this could never be good. I mean, you know, Reach out to other peers. People are happy to help you. People are happy to give you the secret sauce. It's not that secret. You know, a lot of these news articles are all doom and gloom over the industry, and I don't see it like that at all.
If you're willing to do the work, there's nothing but opportunity out there for you, and you know, if you're building your practice, you're You don't have to work with those crappy clients. You don't have to use that crappy software. Like you can work with the people you want to work with. You can do the things that you love to do. And it's really all possible. Yep. And I agree. Build the dream, build the firm of your dreams, not someone else's ideal firm.
Then, you know, create your own and do it smartly. I think that makes a lot of sense. And one thing you said, the future of the profession, you do see some doom and gloom I think Wall Street Journal's been a, a, one of those areas that have had some doom and gloom articles that actually we wrote a rebuttal to one of their articles recently on how we see the profession because it kind of got me a little frustrated.
But I recently, and I know you've done some work at least on the podcast with the AICPA, but I recently, was a scholarship judge for the Legacy Scholarship, I think they call it for AICPA. And man, I looked at 16 individuals that were eligible for scholarships and just looking at their passion in college for this profession, I'm like, we're in big trouble.
Pretty good hands coming up with someone like you who's recently, you know, started your firm, but even people in college now and what the passion they're showing for this, I'm like, I feel good. I think we have to do things. We can't do the selling method. We have to make changes like you're saying, but I see a great future still coming up in our profession. I love that. That makes me happy. Me too. So thank you. All right. So before we wrap up a couple of final questions, we just spent.
30 minutes or so, talking about the awesome things you're doing and how you built your firm and how you're helping the profession. But when you're not doing that, when you're not, because this doesn't define who you are, when you're not doing that, what are your outside of work passions? What do you love to do when it's not CPA work? When I'm not running my firm or helping others, I am taking care of my wonderful, stinky two little children. I also have a dog and we again, live on Long Island.
So the summer is our time. We go to the beach as much as possible. Love being in the sun, love being in the water, love to garden. So I'm ready for some sunshine and to be outside. Alright, awesome, and I had a feeling that kids would be part of the things you enjoy doing too. Anybody who has young kids, that happens for sure.
And then lastly, if anybody wants to get more information about you, obviously the podcast, LinkedIn sounds like a great spot, but where would they reach out or look for you? Yeah, I think the best place to look is LinkedIn, Kelly Rohrs CPA. The podcast is from Zero to Millions Accounting Edition and it's available everywhere you can listen to a podcast. Alright, and I just looked, 11, 000 followers on LinkedIn, you're crushing me, so, you've got some reach there.
No, there's no way I have more followers than you. I don't even know what I have, but I'll guarantee you have more, so. Well, alright. Well, thank you so much for having me today, Randy. Well thank you for being on the show, and I'm glad that we, did we have to reschedule this once? We did, yeah, one of my kids was sick. Oh, I assumed it was my, I assumed it was me, so. Well, I was going to say nothing wrong with that, but I'm not happy that we're sick, but I'm glad we were able to get it done.
So again, Kelly, thanks for being on the show. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today on The Unique CPA. You can find the show notes for today's episode at And learn more about Tri Merit at TheUniqueCPA. com. Remember to subscribe and leave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app and join us next time for more expertise and insights on The Unique CPA. ProfessionalProductions. net.