And I was like trying to grab these books out of her hand because I didn't want her to get rid of them. I didn't want her to burn them. And I was like please, no, please, no, please no, and she's like, yes, this is what we're going to do. Then she took them from me, she took them out of my hands, and then she threw them all in the woodstove. So she closed the door and that was that. Couldn't retrieve them. They were on fire.
Christa Lester Pitch peered over a man's shoulder to see the computer screen. There was a news report on it, and there was Jess, Jess with her red hair, wearing a bright red coat and black gloves. She was saying something to a man with a microphone, but Krista couldn't hear what she said.
It was kind of real, honestly.
Christa was the girl whose mom once burned her books to cast away Devil Spirits. She was in her twenties, now standing in a house in spoke Anne, Washington, where Victor's followers had relocated. She lived there with other River Road members, all clustered around the screen. Victor's right hand woman, Jan had warned Christa this news story was coming, but she wouldn't give her details about what was in it.
She just told her none of it's true. Jan's husband had his headphones plugged into a computer, so the mouths on the screen moved, but no sound came out.
And then immediately I went into my room.
She pulled out a tablet she kept hidden there against the rules, her secret window to the outside world.
Plugged in my headphones and watched it myself.
The tall man with a microphone was Tom Lyden, an investigative journalist who'd reached out to Lindsay and Jess. Jess led the reporter to the grounds of the shepherd's camp, where they had all once lived. Large pine trees looked black against the snow. Lindsay and Jess talked openly about what had happened to them as maidens, about the sexual abuse they had experienced when their parents gave them away to Victor. Jess explained she had never gotten the talk
about sex, but that she knew something was wrong. She looked straight to the camera and said, my young impressions of him was he was a scary person because he yelled a lot, and I was afraid of him when I said to my parents, this man that you support, Victor Bernard, raped your daughter. My mom said, the blood of the lamp covers it all. Jesus Christ forgives.
And I was really, really sad. I didn't know Lindsay very well, but I knew Jess. I knew Jess very very well. She was like a sister to me. Watching Lindsay's story and watching Jess around my hometown and showing the Shepherd's camp and seeing the places that I grew up. At the time, the band aid was starting to get ripped off for me, like my childhood was suddenly tarnished, and that's a hard thing to bounce back from.
You know.
It was shocking, but I wasn't surprised. I grew up in this church. I knew how Victor behaved with young women, and I knew how they behaved with him. I always thought it was weird, so old.
And Krista knew how he behaved with her. She thought about encounters she'd had with Victor, like when she was fifteen and he slapped her butt when she walked by, or another time when she and some girls and their moms had invited Victor on a picnic.
And one of the moms thought, what a good idea would be if after lunch the moms leave and we stay and we lay on blankets with Victor under the trees. And I did not like that idea. I thought it was weird. I was just like laying there, not touching anything. I was not enjoying myself whatsoever. And the other two girls were like cuddled up next to Victor, and it was like, what are we even doing?
Started raining, so Krista got to leave, but she always wondered what would have happened if the rain hadn't come.
And so, you know, it's not hard for me to believe that he went much further with some girls, and that type of stuff was normal. It was so normal. We weren't all raped, but we were all. I can honestly say, beyond all shadow of doubt, that every last one of us young girls in that church was in some type of situation like that at least one time in our childhood.
But the people around Christa had just one reaction to the news story.
Everybody around me was saying, it's all lies, even the maiden, it's all lies. It's all lies. It's all lies. And I was like but it makes sense though. These girls they had every thing to lose and they lost it. They lost the respect of their peers, they lost their families, and they still came out and told their stories. I was just like, there's no possible way that they're lying. These girls had been raped. It was definitely a marked
moment in my life watching these girls. These women, they did something so strong, and I knew in my soul that they were telling the truth. What's crazy, this is really crazy, is Victor had already taken off to Brazil.
Victor was on the run.
From a cocoa punch and iHeart podcasts This is the Turning River Road, I'm Erica Lance.
And I'm Alan Lance Lesser Part seven Manhunt. While Krista lived in the tightly sealed River Road community in Washington, Lindsay was on the other side of the country with a lot more freedom. Lindsay didn't live with her parents anymore, and by now she'd been out of the cult for years. Then she learned she was pregnant. It wasn't something she planned for. The father was a friend and didn't really
want to be involved. If Lindsay was going to have this baby, it be up to her to raise it on her own.
And I was in no position to have a kid, you know, like I was dealing with so much my own uncle and Bethesda and my cousin at that point, like did not support me having my daughter and wanted me to give her up for adoption and took me to an adoption agency. And I remember like sitting in the office and looking at these books. Couples made books of their travels and adventures and their families and what they did, how they would raise kids. And I just
keep thinking, my parents gave me up the firstborn. I could never give my firstborn up. I remember it was seven weeks and four days when I went to the clinic and confirmed the pregnancy, and it was just this tiny, tiny little seed on the screen, and I knew. I was like, I'm gonna keep you and I want to be your mommy.
She was pregnant. When the story broke, she watched herself on the screen.
It didn't feel real because we'd waited for two years for anything to happen, and then now everything was blowing up and it almost seemed like a train that had gone off its tracks. It was just rolling full speed ahead, and it was like, Okay, people are hearing this, people are believing me. Finally, you know, like something is going to come out of this.
Before the story was on TV, Lindsay and Jess's case set for two years, seemingly without any decision or movement or updates. But after the news things started to change. More media wanted to interview Lindsay, and the US Marshals wanted to meet with her.
They wanted to meet me and give them, like all the information I had about Brazil, all the places I had visited, and I was like, okay, like we are going somewhere now.
We went back out to Minnesota for the meeting. Jess was there too. Lindsay hadn't seen her for seven years. They'd both been interviewed for the news report, but they hadn't actually seen each other in person, not since Lindsay was a Maideness as long red hair was now cropped to a pixie and bleached blonde.
And of course our clothes were different because we made most of our clothes. But I still remember like she had that great smile that I loved so much, and I remember thinking how good it was to see her smile. I remember just hugging each other and crying. We just hugged and cried. She seemed more free and more expressive from what I had remembered living in the coult and having to not really be our true selves.
Jess lived in Wisconsin now in a small town called River Falls, built around a trickling waterfall. She worked at a liquor store and had a partner named Mike. Lindsay showed her pictures of her daughter.
They laughed about the old days.
Remembered how much they loved the sound of new guitar strings. They started hanging out more, drank beer and watch Netflix, and Jess showed Lindsay Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, a comedy about a young woman who leaves an underground bunker when she's rescued from a doomsday cult leader. In the opening credits, she steps out into the sun for the first time in a long prairie dress, the kind Lindsay and Jess used to wear.
I at the time was not a fan because I thought it minimized everything I was feeling. But she really liked it. Oh, it was so fun. It was almost not that we were like sneaking around doing this, but like, oh my gosh, I can't believe. Could you ever imagine that we'd be here, like having some beers and watching
this comedy show together. It was surreal. It was like, after all this time and all the terrible stuff that had happened, we're here, like actively trying to put Victor in jail, but then also having this bonding time together.
It was It was pretty special.
But I honestly don't think we dove in to deep memories of even the good times, because I think we both during that time were just still suffering so much from all the bad stuff that happened that at times it was really hard to remember even the good stuff, if that makes any sense.
Yeah, just had a happy life in River Falls. But she had dark times too. Could relate.
Yeah, a lot of dark times. She almost ended up in the hospital from trying to commit suicide a couple of times. I think we both had feelings of abandonment from our parents and betrayal. We both had common reactions with wanting to hurt ourselves and just feeling that almost the pain was too big to handle. I would just try to encourage her, and I was hoping that, you know, going through all of this would really help, would help
in some way. I mean, it doesn't take away what we went through and the pain, the reality of it all. But I was hoping that Victor going to jail and some justice being served would help her.
It was kind of devastating being as that we were in the community, that it was all going on, and nobody was really aware of it until us, you know, burst out into flames.
Eileen rad Dunn's works at Petrie's Bach, the convenience store in Finlassen that sells everything you need in this small town, gas and groceries and fishing and hunting and camping supplies. Even though River Road members kept to themselves, they did go into town.
Sometimes they would.
Come into the store. It was Pete here from time to time.
Eileen says she saw the women in long dresses walking through the store with their heads down, no eye contact, not talking to anyone else. They'd get what they needed and leave. She says people knew it was a religious cult because of how closed they were, but they didn't really know what was going on inside. Eileen helped clean the camp after River Road left. She says she saw the house where Victor took the maidens.
When you know what happened.
It just gives you a creepy feeling.
And you know what happened, It just gives you a creepy feeling.
She says.
Peetrees was the store Lindsay and Jess once daydreamed they'd run away to when they were little girls. Now they were on tea and everyone in the store learned what had really happened. People in Pine County often saw River Road followers over the years. The cult members had a cabinet business, a butcher shop. Some ran a construction company too. The local hairdresser gave followers haircuts a few times. She noticed how they always came two by two and didn't talk.
It gave her an eerie feeling. Now these girls in prairie dresses were on the news. A lot of people in Pine County and across Minnesota saw the news story about River Road found out what was happening right next door. Many of them might have seen the broadcasts in their homes and gone on with their day, ate dinner, went
to work, moved on. But there was one person who couldn't let the story go, who felt like something needed to be done, And before long that person would become a central part of the story.
Well, the primary images that come back for me are Lindsay and Jess. That's always my strongest memory of this case.
Rehese Frederickson was a lawyer in his late thirties when Jesson Lindsay came on TV. He had prosecuted drug crimes, burglaries, and domestic assaults, but he'd never seen a case like this in Pine County, and he'd always been interested in cults.
I don't know why I'm so fascinated by them. How one person can control so many people and change their will, you know, and change their allegiance to their families and their community.
Rees swears her members when at three or four years old he saw the Jonestown cult on the news, the aerial images with hundreds of dead bodies stuck with him. When he grew up, Reese got to meet the prosecutor on the Manson family cult case. That meeting inspired Reese to become a prosecutor himself.
I mean, it's like, how many tests do these leaders push on these people and they cantinue to acquiesce. And that's kind of what fascinated me too about the River Road Fellowship. As Victor Bernard just incrementally kind of went beyond those boundaries that everybody else is expected to live by, and they overlooked it, overlooked it, overlooked it until it just got to be too much for somebody.
And this cult was in Reese's backyard. He trained for canoe races in the lakes and rivers close to the Shepherd's camp. He had birthday parties for his kids there. It struck him that here was this news story, but Victor hadn't even been arrested. Reese is a private person. He describes himself as an introvert, but he wanted to do something. He wanted to go after Victor, and he decided to run for election to be the county attorney in Pine County that was.
Meant to be on this path, that was meant to have this case.
Reese was the underdog in the election for county attorney, but after campaigning and a series of three debates, he won. He knew what he had to do next time to find Victor. Victor's name went on the US Marshal's fifteen most wanted list, an Inner Pool red notice was put out for him. The marshals surveilled river road houses in Washington State. They watched maidens covertly tracked their movements. The maidens caught on and began to take circuitous roots, flying
to multiple cities in roundabout ways when they had to travel. Then, one day, when a maiden was coming from Brazil back to the US, officials searched her baggage and customs they found.
A card, and a card.
Was a handwritten and it was signed just with a V at the bottom. And that was when the light went off and said, Okay, that's got to be Victor Bernard, and if she has that card on her for returning from Brazil, that means he's in Brazil.
So they contacted local authorities in Brazil who started to tail a maiden down there, and she.
Knew she was being followed. At times, she was very careful. She would pull over to the side of the road and just wave and kind of watch to see if there were people tailing her. My understanding was that it was a lone Brazilian cop that was doing surveillance on a condo and that's when they spotted Victor Bernard.
Law enforcement tore through the condo, seizing documents, usb drives, diaries, and electronics. There's a picture of Victor during the arrest. He's on a cream leather couch wearing a tank top. He looks tan. His gray beard covers much of his thin face. His eyes looked tired, almost squinting, and his hands are behind his back like he's handcuffed.
I just a vision of him knocking his doors out. Here's this international fugitive, you know, thinking he's cooling his heels next to the beach and look and relax like he's on sulpification. Some rational part of him had to know that his time was up.
After basically living my life thinking that I would die being a maiden, the reality that he was now being hunted and then finally found. I don't remember crying. I think I remember being almost like you know when you have the wind taken out of you. It was almost like, oh my gosh, it happened. It's real. Like in the midst of all of my hurting, I was like, he is not going to get away with this. I know it won't be easy, but bring it on, We're going to get this bucker.
Victor Bernard was in a Brazilian jail cell, but now they had to get him back to Minnesota. It took a year and a half of political and legal maneuvering, but finally in June of twenty sixteen, he was extradited back to Minnesota. The US Marshalls had him.
I think they flew down there on the commercial plane, and I remember one of the marshals said that when they got him on the plane, he sat there for eighteen hours or twenty hours or whatever it is that takes Gole from Brazil to the United States. Didn't use the restroom once. She thought was extremely odd. And they had a cup of water in front of him, both hands or on the cup, and he just kept staring at the water and taking sit for like eighteen hours.
Reese knew there were a lot of eyes on them now. Lindsay knew it too. She was told to be careful to watch her surroundings and be vigilant while she was out, and a family member warned her some cult members might reach out to see if she would say anything incriminating information they could pass on to Victor's lawyers.
So I remember I also felt a little like scared. I got off of social media for a while because I was like, I just to be safe, you know, I have a two year old.
It does seem a little scary to try to take down a man who a lot of people see as practically God as a christ figure.
Were you worried about.
People who still believed in him actually feeling like very threatened by your actions, and then taking action in some way themselves.
I would lock up the house like Knox. I remember just always being on guard. Every door, every window was locked. I remember driving and looking out the rear view mirror making sure nobody was ever following me, just because I didn't know what Victor's friends would do, like some of the elders, because as far as I knew, they all still supported him, including my mother and most of my siblings. I had no idea what was going to happen, what people would do.
Reese got to work at the County Courthouse, a modern building with long glass windows, surrounded by Pine County farmland.
Where is the jail, the Pine County jail, It's right underneath you.
The jail is in I don't know if you call it the basement, but it's the floor below us.
So Victor Bernard was being held literally below where we're sitting right now.
That's correct, Yes, that must.
Have been so so surreal.
Surreal is a good word for it.
Fellowship members started visiting Victor in jail. They couldn't meet with him face to face, but they could talk to him through a video system.
Some of this diehard followers showed up and we're talking to them. It was just interesting to see what is the dynamic between a follower and their cult leader and how do they interact with each other.
Good morning, good morning, did you give your voice? It's good to.
Hear yours too.
This morning.
I am how about you?
Thankful to being in this where growing interest that that's where we'll be forever. I just want to say this that, you know, I think we just need to trust God because I don't believe that this was what was supposed to happen, and I think that it is my fault, my responsibility.
But we will trust God because he is so good and so big, and he works all things together for good even if even if we make.
Mistakes or you know, there are dozens of recorded phone calls between Victor and his followers. He speaks regularly to two maidens, to jan and there's a call with Lindsay's sister. Victor tells them to avoid names and specific details. He knows the calls are being recorded. From time to time, he talks about his mistakes, but never exactly what those mistakes are. In those moments, the callers comfort him.
In the end, Jesus Christ is the hero. And you know what, God knew that we were human and we were not going to walk with him perfectly, and sometimes we were going to blow it don't work.
So your friends, no matter what, they're.
Fawning language over him. Oh victory, he looked great, and he really didn't look great, but they thought he looked great, and he didn't say a whole lot. What also stood out to me was just what a narcissist he is, especially with regard to when his mugshot hit the media and of course social media. I mean, people are often cruel, but he deserves to be cruel against him, I suppose.
But his mugshot is terrible.
He looks awful, you know, with his squinted eyes, and it was just it was a bad picture of him. And I remember him asking one of I believe she was one of the maidens about his mugshot and expressing disapproval of it and asking her how he looked, and so it told me that he was more concerned about his image than anything else. She said, oh, Victory, you're so handsome in your picture.
You look great. A lot of it was especially with her.
She would come in with the Bible and just read read passages of the Bible, hours of this boring stuff.
Let us stand together. Who is mine adversary? Who would see that shall condemn me? Well, they all fall wax old as a garment. The moth shall eat the mouth?
And he went say much he would just kind of nod and maybe just kind of an incomprehensible gruntsy yes, or something like that.
Victor asked his followers to help him through his new life in jail, and they did. They help him figure out which lotion to order. They tell him he's been on the news. Helped him choose what food to order from the canteen.
Do you know what.
You have?
The fudle?
Okay, they have like pepperoni or vice like.
Ooh, the summer saus This is how you really good. That's gonna give you good protein too. We're going to heaven. Just don't forget it. And it's bigger. It could be tonight. You might you might never even wake up because you're going to fly away and be at rest.
But Jesus Christ when.
With this.
One thing that really stood out for me is just kind of watching the facial expressions of the followers when they interact with Victor. Just this happiness, this weird, gleaming, kind of superficial happiness and glow in their eyes like they are in the presence of a savior. I don't know how to describe it, but it's it's like if you see somebody that's pretending to be happy. I wouldn't call it that, and I wouldn't call it somebody that's genuinely happy. It seems like somebody who is kind of
convinced themselves that they're happy. It felt kind of force just you're happy, you're happy, you have to be happy around me, And eventually it just kind of gets frozen.
Have you been frozen on your face?
Yeah? Exactly. It felt kind of frozen on their faces.
I mine.
Well.
This morning, when I got up, I was humming a song to myself, and I thought it might bless you to hear it too.
Okay, peace, peace, wonderful, oh peace, coming down from the Father of sleep over my spears forever crazy.
In fad mistill.
So thank you, thank you.
Yeah, he will give it to us today.
We have that piece.
I love you, Thank you.
Okay.
Lindsay knew many followers still supported Victor, but what hurt Lindsay the most was what came from her own family. Well, and Victor talked with her sisters and her mom, Peggy, and she told Victor exactly where she stood.
Good morning, good morning, get there, God bless you. I just thank God for you, Victor. I love you, and You've been in my heart and prayers, and I know and believe God called you. And where I was at my life when you came because I was crying out to God because my life was in such a miserable state. And you showed up a couple of weeks later, and I just remember over the years thinking how could one man love and give so much to so many people?
Is only by the power of God in Christ, in you, And I am forever thankful to God.
For you.
My mom and two of my sisters wrote letters to the judge on Victor's behalf, totally trashing me and supporting Victor.
Lindsay's mom wrote in her letter, quote I have much sorrow for Lindsay and the direction she's gone and turning away from God, the Bible, and her minister. I do not believe her accusations against Victor are true. They contradict everything I have known in my daughter's life and Victor Bernard's life. Victor Bernard is a man of integrity and honesty, and I would trust him with my life or anyone else's.
These believers stood with Victor against Lindsay, but when police interviewed a number of other River Road members, they corroborated Lindsay's story. They claimed not to know about the sexual abuse, but no one in the police recordings we heard doubted Lindsay and Jess. One of them said they'd had suspicions. Another said they could see red flags in retrospect, like when Victor had a spiritual marriage ceremony with these young girls and mentioned concubines in his sermon. Jan came up
in these interviews too. They said she was Victor's personal secretary, his recruiter, and a house mother to the maidens. Even with these other witnesses, though the case against Victor was not a slam dunk, the county attorney Rhyes. Frederickson knew any lawyer would be nervous about a case like this.
He wasn't sure whether people could believe that parents would give their kids away to a sexual predator like that, and maybe even more importantly, before he met Lindsay and Jess, he wasn't sure how they'd come off, whether they'd be believable to a jury, But he was about to find out. He plans to meet them at the county courthouse.
I remember I walked out where you came out in this hallway here, and they showed up early, like ten minutes early, and I came around the corner. I mean, he developed certain instincts in this job over the years, and it was almost like kind of a gut punch where I saw the two victims, and right away I knew that they were completely trustworthy and believable. That was one of the strongest instincts I've ever had when I saw them. It was within five seconds, I said, Okay,
we won the case. Never had that feeling since that time, but I I just it was weird. I just turned around the corner and I just knew.
Reese and Victor's lawyer began to negotiate a plea deal. Rees says they didn't think Jess and Lindsay would actually want to testify about what they've been through, but Rees said, no, they're not backing down no matter what.
These girls are very br and they're gonna sit up there in the witness stand. They're going to look on the eye and they're going to testify about what happened.
Victor's attorney came back with an offer eighteen years for a guilty plea. Jess and Lindsay said no, twenty four years. Victor's attorney offered the victims wouldn't have to testify. Did they really want to go through that?
And I thought, okay, that's not bad, and so I contacted Jess. And my feeling from Jess is that she wanted just to get this done with, put it behind her, and that she was ready to testify. She had a lot of courage, but preferred not to and so she seemed okay with the twenty four years. And then I talked to Lindsay, and Lindsay her perspective on this was she wanted more exposure on Victor Bernard and his crimes and what they did to her and Jess, and she said, no way more than twenty four years.
Reese gave the attorney their answer and began to prepare for trial.
And then I believe it was a Friday, his attorney came up and he was wearing a T shirt and shorts. It was in the summer, and I thought, well, that's odd that he's up here in a Friday looking for me, and I didn't even know he was in the building. And he came into my office and said, okay, he'll agree to plead to one count for each of the victims, and agreed to the maximum.
Sentence of thirty years, which is unheard of.
It's completely unheard of, and I can't think of another case of my career where that's happened.
I mean, in my opinion, he deserved life in prison if we had gone to trial, I mean, all of his dirty evil you know, that he had done, would come to light. And I remember thinking what a coward he was that he didn't want to go to trial. You know that, basically in my mind, he was taking the cowardly way out.
Lindsay had one more opportunity to face victor, and she was not going to squander it. They showed up to victor sentencing with prepared statements. They'd finally get to use their own words to stand up to him, to tell him how he'd hurt them. Jess made them matching bracelets that said Survivor. Lindsay and Jess arrived at the courthouse. They grabbed each other's hands. They followed Reese into the courtroom and took their seats. Reporters were there, but Lindsay
tuned them out. She was focused on what she was about to do. She stood up facing the judge to speak. This is her reading the statement she read that day.
Hello, and get afternoon.
In your honor, I would like to share how the terrible evil actions of mister Bernard impacted my life when I was young, and how they still continued to impact my life. Yeah, I remember, you know, my hands constantly sweating and like just trying to take deep breaths. But I think most of them were just like.
Short gulps of air.
I first recall mister Bernard sexually abusing me when I was just thirteen years old. He started off by asking me if I'd ever masturbated. I'd never even heard the word before. For some reason, he thought I was lying. I was so focused on what was going to happen. One by one, we read ours and face the judge, and I remember looking up at him at one point when I was reading mine and he was wiping a
tear from his face. I have a little girl of my own now, and I cannot even fathom how parents can give up the most precious things in their life to a cult leader and a sexual predator. She will never know the feeling of abandoned me, and she will never know the feeling that she's not good enough, or pretty enough, or skinny enough. She will never be punished for smiling too much. She will never be yelled at and made to feel ashamed for being full of energy
and excitement. She will never be spit in the face by someone for simply sharing her opinion and standing up for herself. She will never feel that she can't be anything she wants to be. She will always feel protected and loved. I know all these things because I am her mother. I didn't want Victor to remember me as some person in the background who maybe was scared of him. He did not see this coming. He did not expect me who he had to make share at every meal.
Because I was afraid to talk, be the one to bring him and the whole thing down to the ground. I wanted him to hear my voice and hear my words and know that I did this to him. I helped put him in jail, and that Victor from then on would forever be known as a pedophile. He wouldn't be known anymore as a man of God, or a shepherd or anything like that. He would be known as a pedophile who did these horrific things to children. Because of what mister Bernard did. I used to feel so
alone and helpless. But he is the one who is alone, and he will die alone. My heart's beating so fast right now.
Victor looked straight ahead while she talked. When it was his turn to speak, he stood in handcuffs and shackles.
He said.
He was deeply sorrowful. God is good, he said, and his word is faithful and true. I have not walked in his goodness.
And then I think that's when the judge gave his you know, handed out the sentence to him. I think it was fifty nine counts of sexual abuse and he was getting thirty years, which I mean fifty nine counts.
That is that number is so low.
Ten years of living in that Yeah, that number is very low.
Victor was charged with fifty nine counts, but only pled guilty to two. There was a press conference after the hearing. Rees stood to one side, jessin Lindsay sat behind a large wooden table, a cluster of microphones in front of them. They often looked at each other as they talked. Sometimes they exchanged a little smile.
You're explaining your emotions for.
It's an overwhelming feeling, you know, it's every day.
That we deal with us together.
But the truth, everyone knows the truth of what happened to us, and I think that's what's most important to us.
Yeah, and now we can.
Move on completely.
I mainly just remember being so happy Jess and I were together, knowing that we were the two youngest of the maidens and.
Going through all of that together.
And then I remember looking at her and just being so thankful that we had gotten through this together, we had put him in jail together, that we survived all of it. It almost gets me feeling even more powerful. You know that Victor tried all those years and I was his downfall.
Next time on the turning, I don't care what happens when Jesus Christ comes back. Whatever happens to me, it cannot possibly be worse than this. That thought scared me.
The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and produced by Alan Lance, Lesser and Me. Our story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed by James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Our executive producers are John Parratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvel
and Nikki Etur at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out via email The Turning at Rococo punch dot com I America Lance thanks for listening.