So remember when CNN was reporting from Kenosha, Wisconsin, as the city was being burnt down after the shooting of Jacob Blake, who, by the way, it was a justified police shooting. But remember the chiron read fiery but mostly peaceful as buildings burnt in the background.
We're going to talk to the author of.
The book Fiery but mostly Peaceful about the breakdown of law and order in the country. He was at the front lines of these Antifa and Black Lives Matter riots. He followed them on the ground around the country. He's also been at the Southern border multiple times, reporting from there as well. And he's also a marine, so he has been on the front lines in multiple arenas. He recently testified before the House Homeland Security Committee. Listen to this exchange.
You're trying to get us a gaslight us up here as if Antifa, which mister Rosas apparently the expert now in organized terrorist activity, has overruled the FBI director who says there's a headline says Antifa is an ideology, not an organization. No no, no, let's not listen to the FBI director. Let's listen to Sorry, what's your title, senior writer? At town Hall, who is going to tell us that the FBI director is wrong?
And I'd like to induce.
There's no question.
I think it's funny to be lectured by an heir to the Levi Strauss corporation. And honestly, that's probably why he doesn't consider property damage to be that big of a deal, because not only does he have that, but he also has what some would describe an impossibly good stock portfolio. But what I can tell you is that in these riots that happened three years ago, they yes, big corporations did suffer damage in looting such as target that would happen in Minneapolis, but a lot of the businesses,
they were small businesses. They didn't come from a multimillion dollar families or corporations.
We'll talk a little bit about his experiences testifying before the committee about left wing violence in the country, and also just get his thoughts about the breakdown of law and order.
Why is it happening, what has he seen.
That's all from Julia roseas senior writer for town Hall and the author of Fiery but Mostly Peaceful. Stay with us, Julio, it's great to have you on my fellow Floridia and great to have you on the show.
Yeah, no, it's it's a great time to be down in Florida.
It is the life, isn't it. And you left you were in the DC area right before.
Yes, for six years. I'd say four years too many.
I bet you don't miss it at all.
No, no, not one. Well, I miss some of the people. I will, but overall I'm good with not going back for a while.
You're at the border currently, correct, Yes.
Yes, I'm currently in the Del Rio sector. The one of the reasons why that I'm here is because I'm speaking of Florida. Governor run DeSantis sent additional law enforcement and military personnel to help out the state of Texas to address the still ongoing border crisis. And for this region, the big problem, and this has been a systemic problem
down here are the godaways, right. So this is the little bit harder to see aspect of the crisis because these people aren't necessarily the families, the kids who are willingly giving themselves up to border patrol. They are the ones who are actively, for one reason or another, trying to avoid apprehension and to get into United States one and say one hundred percent illegal as opposed to trying to you know, with the families and stuff, trying to
go through the sound court process. So that that's been a big issue here for a long time, with going through the ranches, going through the countryside, which brings a whole host of problems for both the migrants and the and the Americans who live down here. And so I think it's pretty This is the second time actually that Florida has sent law enforcement and military personnel to the border. The first time, I believe was in twenty twenty one,
near kind of the beginning of everything. So with everything that's still going on with this, Texas as great as it is, it's just one state and certainly could use the help to address this.
We were told that what Trump was doing on the border was inhumane, you know, basically border enforcement was inhumane. But what's happening now is not humane. You know, what is happening now with you know, encouraging the sexual assaults that happen along the way, the amount of people who die, and then also it's not humane for Americans when we're letting criminals into the country, terrorists into the country.
I mean, nothing about this is humane.
No, And that's why I always take, I guess exception to people who have criticized, especially you know, particularly people in the left.
People have criticized my reporting is always fear mongering or oh it's you know, racist even, and to me, it's like, no, Like the reason why I just personally I am against the illegal immigration is because I've seen the effects of it, and it's not pretty. I mean, I've seen people almost drown in the Rio Grande near Eagle Path. I've seen I saw women almost die of heat stroke or in Uma Arizona. I mean it gets I mean, this is we're getting in to the summer, but it's ninety for
degrees right now. So whenever you're trying to avoid detection and not traveling legally, you're going to put yourself in a precarious situation. And that's on top of like you mentioned the rapes, the sexual assaults that happened to the I mean it happens to the women, happens to the kids, and yeah, even sometimes the men because because they can. The cartel, I mean, the people who do this, they
do it because they can't. I mean, it's kind of like the bonus for them on top of extorting them when I was in Alpaso for when Title forty two was going to expire. I went to a shelter and one of the director of communications or I'm sorry, director of marketing. She told me that about no less than eighty percent of the women who come to the shelter have been raped or sexually assaulted in some ways. One of the first things that a lot of them ask when they get there is for pregnancy tests, so it's
it's and then the kids get separation anxiety. It takes like three or four days. I mean the kids come in shell shocked essentially. I mean they just kind of keep to themselves, and it takes three or four days for them to kind of acclimate to a safe environment and then it kind of start going back to start acting normally. So I mean, yeah, it's none of it has been humane, and it never illegal immigration ever will be.
And so for the US government to have incentivized illegal immigration under this administration is just absolutely disgusting just from
a humanitarian perspective. And sure, yes, a lot of these people have now who I've gotten in since twenty twenty one, Yeah, they might be living better lives, and that's that's a big GIF the cost that they had to pay for that is very is very high, and I just don't think that that's the way that a Christian should be done, you know, from from a just a human perspective.
Well, and of course it's you know, not fair for Americans either of having to deal with an an influx of people. You know, it's not fair for them when we already are having so many problems here in the United States. You had mentioned the key word the Biden administration incentivizing this. Why do you think the Biden administration is incentivizing this?
I think so one, it's just to be the anti Trump person, right, I mean, that's what he campaigned on. He said, you know, we're not going to build one more We're not going to build one more foot of the wall. We're going to try it. We're going to halt deportations for one hundred days. We're going to give everyone for your health care and everything. So it was I think it was just the classic reflexive response to
just try just be the opposite of Trump. It doesn't matter what it is, it just whatever he was doing, just go the opposite because that's what the voters want. But that's but then you know, they have access to all this intelligence. They have access to all of this things that are much more stuff that we even we don't know at a reporting level. Right, they have all the human sources intelligence, they have all the assets and everything.
So they're they're acutely aware that this isn't the right way for people to be coming to the United States in terms of again like what happens to them and so, but and yet and yet they still went ahead and you know, try to say, well, Republicans are the ones that are to blame for this. It's still Trump's fault, which is just absolutely insane, like to hear them say that.
And so but they're doing it because they see a political benefit, right They they see the risk of having the Homeland Security secretary being impeached, They see the you know, the I mean, this has been one of the worst polling issues Biden has pulled at its border and immigration since since he's been in office. It's been one of his worst. I mean, the economy is still kind of number one because obviously that affects everybody, doesn't matter if
you're an a border say or not. But so, so they're willing to weather this because they see a political benefit.
What that political benefit is, I mean, you kind of have carefully to bring it up, but they think that there's a new voting block here because if they can fast track all these people and give them asylum and then give them citizenship, then maybe, you know, because because outside of that, I don't, I don't know what the answer is, right because again, they they know how bad it is, and yet there's they still want to move
ahead and do it. And so of course with the politics, it's all about not getting elected and it's all about keeping that power. So that's for me, that's the only logical explanation and that and maybe you know, maybe bribery, but I don't have evidence for that, so I'm not going to list that as a reason, but just logically that that's the only thing that I can really.
Come up with that makes sense.
And of course it's cruel for border patrol agents because you know, we're putting them in an impossible situation. So it's sad for them and their families as well.
And that's one thing that I mean, I've spoken to a lot of border patrol agents since this all started, and they they it's similar to I mean, just law enforcement in general in this country has just taken such a brutal beating these past three years. With the border, it's obviously a different reason, but it's still the same. It's still the same end where you have a lot
of agents leaving. We had the most suicides within Customs and Border Protection last year then since two thousand and nine, I think I think it was fourteen, if I'm remembering correctly. So they're just demoralized because they they're not able to fully do their job. And so, you know, a lot of these guys have worked under multiple administrations. A lot of these guys know what works right, and so when you when they are unable to do that, of course,
of course they're going to be demoralized. And so so that's that's why we've had so many leaks come from Borbitual because they're so frustrated and they can't really speak out publicly, and so they talk to guys like me b millusion Ali Bradley because they are seeing this every single day and they want to get the message out to the rest of the country.
Well, and you've covered a lot of these big law enforcement issues which have been you know, really at the forefront of the country, whether it's at the border, which you know you're there now, or it's these riots that you know you covered in the summer of twenty twenty. You've covered a lot of these big issues for town hall, and you recently testified before Congress. They believe it is
the Homeland Security Committee. You know, talk about that hearing, the purpose of it, and what your message was that day.
The hearing was basically to highlight the fact that, yes, there's been violence portrated from people in the far right, but there has been also plenty of violence being perpetrated on the far left. And it was to talk about, look,
this is what has been happening in the country. And what I said is that, you know, if things don't change, I think if the judicial system and law enforcement agencies are not looking at the far left like they have been looking at the far right, and to them, far right has been parents at school board meetings and like actually peaceful pro life protesters, right, if they're not actually trying to take down these these Antifa cells, these you know, agitating cells that were that I that I saw in
action three years ago, things like the twenty twenty four presidential election outcome, because like let's say President Trump wins again. I mean, I expect to be as busy, if not more busy, covering that those type of events again, just like I was. I was busy in twenty twenty and so that was my message. My message was I saw a lot of violence in twenty twenty and a little bit into twenty twenty one, being front by people who were or Black Lives Matter ANTIFA types, and it's a
big problem and it can happen again. And so when when, I mean even today, uh, Congresswoman Jayapaul from Washington today with the whole debt ceiling negotiation, she said that if if the Biden administration agrees to spending cuts, there's gonna be backlash in the streets. Now, I don't really I don't really expect that because I don't think that, you know, when it comes to debt ceiling, and you know, I don't think a lot of people are gonna be so
up and arms about that. Maybe I don't know who knows, but the fact that she's able to say that and does not really think that that would be like an incitement of violence, because I mean, if Trump said that, it be it would be a complete meltdown, right, you know, if I don't get my way, there's there's gonna be
backlash in the streets. So but so the left constantly is able to get away with it because of the lopsidedness of anarcho tyranny that I mean, it's just insane to see it play out in the country since twenty twenty. But it's a big problem, and there's I don't know how many different ways to say it other than antifas real. They were violent and they can be violent again.
When you wrote a book about it, fiery but mostly peaceful. The twenty twenty riots and the gas lighting of America obviously off of you know that CNN, the infamous CNN report with the chiron reading fiery but mostly peaceful. As you know, a building was engulfed in flames behind the reporter, just the outright lying to us that the media did what actually happened, which it's a beautiful name, that's just perfect,
but what actually happened from what you saw. Obviously the media didn't give us or the mainstream media didn't give us the story.
Yeah, you know, CNN's not great, but they gave him the title of my books. So I can't. It can't be too harsh on them. I suppose no.
But I mean, so thank you CNN for that one, the one.
Helpful thing they did, so I think. So that was in Kenosha. That was in Knosh, and I really I feel so bad for Kenosha. It's it's a it's your typical blue collar Midwestern town that has been forgotten with this you know, globalization of the economy. So they're already kind of down on their luck in some ways. They the whole riot was started over this this police shooting by Jacob Blake and there was a seven to ten second video that went viral, you know, him getting shot
in the back seven times. And I mean, and so we're already, you know, fresh off at George Floyd. There's been the more riots that have happened. I mean, Portland was kind of the place to be. I mean, I was there in July covering those rights at the Federal courthouse, and so this was now August and this happens, and the video just spreads like wildfire. And I was still in DC and so right away I saw that video on Sunday evening and I emailed my boss at the town hall. I said, hey, we need I need to
get there. This is a small town between Milwaukee and Chicago. They are not going to be ready for what's coming. And on behold of that, very night, things got out of control. And so the reason and it stayed out
of control for the next few days. And then of course the whole Kyle written house situation was born out of that chaos and and and so the reason why I like to talk about Kenosha a lot and then and then you know, the scene A Kiron was from was from Kenosha is because that riot happened because of a justified police action. This wasn't just that these weren't just cops spreading around and saying, oh, let's just shoot
this black guy that we just randomly see. No, it was the mother of the children who were in the backseat of the suv had called the police because he was violating the restraining order she had out against him, or protective order they had out against him for sexual assault. Uh, he was in the process of kidnapping her kids, taking away her kids, and he was on with a knife. And so but of course you know that that took time to figure out. But in that time, fifty at
least fifty million dollars of damage was done. Some businesses were closed primarily, others relocated out of where they were destroyed. And then, like I said, you know, the whole Kyle Rittenhouse situation was born. And yeah, he shot in self defense, but I mean that was just like another kind of splinter off that caused you know, another big, great debate
in the country. And so I'm not saying it could have been totally avoided, but it's just that because of the environment that we were in where just constant we're just going to react first and find out later, a lot of bad things can happen. And so when you look at the broader picture of you know, when we talk about January sixth, and people like to view those two two separate things, and they are because you know, they happened differently in different ways, but they were still
the same. It was still the same tangent. Because people who wanted to be violent that day saw how people on the left were violent for months on end with very little repercussions. So of course they're and I'm not defending them, but I'm just saying that their logic was, well, if they can do it, so can we. And so that's why it's dangerous to allow lawlessness to be pervasive for so long, because it's not going to always be
just one side doing it. Obviously, the left was the predominant one for twenty twenty, but then January sixth happened, and then of course now that's where democrats, that's the only thing they want to talk about. But it's this kind of it's just this escalation that has now kind
of simmered. But in my time since then covering crime and place like Chicago and in Philadelphia and all these other places, the anger is still very palpable, and the chaos is it's a low intensity chaos, but people's quality of life are still largely are still very much affected by what happened three years ago. Because now police forces are chronically understaffed, the criminal element, the regular criminal element, is more emboldened than ever. I mean, it's insane what
people are able to just get away with. And it's because just this it's just like this apathy. It's a small laize that has infected so many of our cities where now where all it takes is like in Chicago a few weeks ago, all it takes is it to be a nice, warm spring day for people to just go crazy and have a riot in the heart of the downtown. I'm from the Chicago area, I mean the Loop. The Loop is historically was always the safest place, and
now that's no longer the case. So it's all connected and we're still dealing with the effects, and we will continue to deal with the effects until major changes are made. I just don't I just don't see that happening.
Quick commercial break more with Julio.
We've reached this point where the left has come to the conclusion that you know, you had mentioned a blake and ad justified police shooting. We've reached this point where to the left, in their eyes, criminals are victims. And then if you dare to defend yourself like Daniel Penny did, he's the criminal. How did we get here in this you know, upside down scenario.
We got here partly because I mean, the left is very good at using the the racism label, because I mean, look, I mean from from the time I was little, right, we were taught to not be racist, and because obviously you know, there's no there's no reason to and so but but the problem is that that's been weaponized, and so right with with Daniel Penny in that whole case, there's there's no there was no indication for racism to have
played a part in that, and there still isn't. And yet it has been used again by the same hustlers race hustlers as another example of oh, even though this wasn't a cop, you know, this was still a white guy taking down a black guy for no reason, which of course that's that's not the case at all, and you know, the video that was taken shows that, and
the eyewitnesses say that's not what happened. And also the fact that it wasn't just Daniel Penny, it was two other people, one of them was black who was restraining neely.
So we we got here because it's kind of the the ultimate culmination of things like critical race theory and and wokeness, where it's it races the end all be all, and that's the only thing that matters, and we have to do these very radical steps and policies to try to atone for these things that happened a long time ago, even though it doesn't even make any sense, and even though people who end up betting hurt by those same
policies are minorities. I mean, the minority communities within cities are being plagued by crime right And as I said during my testimony and Capitol Hill, statistically, if I'm in Washington, d C. Or Chicago or Philadelphia or New York City, I'm not going to be attacked, shot or car checked by a white supremacist in a maga hat. I mean that that's I mean, look, anything can happen, but statistically that's not the day to day threats that people are facing,
especially the minority communities. So we're here because it's people just people lost. People really just lost their mind in twenty twenty between COVID, the riots, and the presidential election. And I that's why I don't see that there's a really easy way back to that because it just affected so many parts of our lives today, for some for better, but mostly for worse. So I'm just I'm really concerned about where this country is headed. And I always happened.
I was thinking when you mentioned the maga hat that they're not going to be attacked by a white supremaci in the maga hat. I thought of unless you're j Just Smollett.
But it's at three am in the middle of them. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.
Yeah, exactly why you know, all of this gets to this desire and encouraging of lawlessness. And why do you think the left desires and encourages lawlessness.
I think it's just because it's also dealing with the fact that they hate the United States as it is. And of course, you know, the United States is not perfect it never will be. However, that doesn't mean that still still one of the better places to live. I mean, the whole reason why I have a border crisis is because a lot of people want to get in right,
they want to cut the line. But because it speaks to just the fact that a lot of the people who are you know, they say that, you know, the United States as a whole is irredeemable, and so therefore it's kind of we have to just smash everything and
start completely from scratching these radical ways. And so I think they view this as a perfect way to try to again and map this sort of because with the whole Neely situation, you know, this guy had been arrested forty times, and he was mentally unstable, he was violent, and yet he was still out on the street. He should have been institutionalized, but that didn't happen, and so
then this whole situation happened. And now the left is saying, aha, see because of this, we now need to do X, Y and Z. It's like, well, well, hold on, hold on, like let's take a step back, like like why why did that happen? And and and why was that allowed to happen? Because in some ways it was but he was failed by people who should have known better, especially I mean also his family apparently now was showing up even though they didn't show up for him when he
needed it most. Right, So I think it's because they use it to their advantage, right, I mean, rom Man, you will let of crisis go to waste the rights prove that. The COVID proved that because you know, they were able to make so many sweeping changes and you know, increases in authority. I mean, you have the CDC halting evictions, which is like, you're the CDC, where do you get that kind of power? Well, it's COVID, so we have
it. It's like, well, so I think it's just they want to radically transform the United States, including like the criminal justice system because again it's systemic and racist, so we have to and so we're going to do it this way. And so by allowing, you know, people having to be put in situations that maybe they shouldn't be in, you're going to force these issues. And then they're going to take that and run with it, because like, aha, thee racism.
The only place I would disagree with you is which I don't think you're making the direct correlation is just with January sixth. Obviously, we're learning more and more about the FBI's involvement and potentially orchestrating it and then also being there that day, and then we know that the FBI intentionally manipulated that data relating to January six to paint the picture that domestic terrorism is on the rise
so they can then spy on more American citizens. And we also know recently that the FBI abused their spy powers to target the folks involved in January sixth, So that would be my to our knowledge, you know, we don't know the FBI was involved in anything with the twenty twenty Summer riot, so that would be my only but I know that you weren't making that direct comparison, But that would be the only thing I would add to that about you know, some of the stuff we're finding out about the FBI.
January sixth was just the weirdest ride I had ever covered, right, I've covered many and more importantly, January sixth was preventable. It's the fact that the Capitol police were so ill prepared and the fact that Democrats don't want to ask why they were, because again, we're coming off this whole season of violence and everyone knew how you know, passionate people felt about the twenty twenty election, and so like,
you wouldn't think you'd be better prepared for crowd control. Instead, you're going to run the same playbook of having officers in non riot gear behind the easily movable bike racked barricades. I mean, it's just from my perspective, it doesn't it doesn't make sense. So yeah, no, like, there's a lot of weird things about January sixth, for sure, And I'm glad you brought that up because I.
Mean, even I was in the rotunda, that's as far as I got in during during that day, and you know, a lot, I'm assuming a lot of people didn't even want anticipate getting that far. But also too, they weren't acting like normal writers in the sense because you know, the rotundas are very beautiful part of the of the building.
That's one of the you know parts where they take tours, and so people were just like taking photos of the paintings and the statues inside, and you know, taking pictures of the of the dome, you know, the inside it. In my colleague Rich McGinness, he found two guys smoking weedi inside of the rotunda. So it's just like, it was like, that's not I mean, in my turn, that's
just not typical riot or behavior. And actually a colleague of mine pointed out, like, you know, if this was like Antifa who had done this, they'd be they'd be setting things on fire, they'd be tearing out the paintings, they'd be like bashing the statues. I'm like, actually, you're right.
And again that's not to say there wasn't violence. It was, but it's just that that was just one of the weird things about about that day and looking and I was trying to like recount that, you know, as as the days went on, I'm i was thinking like, yeah, that's that's kind of weird, like why why did that play out the way it did?
What do you think actually happened that day? Having been there? And then also with some of this other stuff we're learning, what does your gut tell you, what does your research tell you?
There was definitely provocates inside the crowd because here's the thing about Antifa, they are very good at what they'd do in terms of hiding their identity, trying to prevent people from recording their destructive because of course, if you're going to you know, do that and you have you know, you have your face identifiable, then police are going to come after you. Well, you know, maybe not in Portland, but that's that's that's that's what it's supposed to happen.
So again with with I mean, a lot of the people that I saw inside the building, you know, they were they weren't wearing masks. They they were live streaming on their personal you know, social media pages and and I didn't know this until afterwards, but but from what I saw, the people who were trying to get in were like trying to break in. But we also know that a large number of people were also let in by the Capital waize they opened the door for them, and a lot of people just you know, kind of
filed in through there. So it's just like what again, But you have all this going on, and so you're like who gave the order or whose decision it was to just open the door again, it just doesn't make sense. So I think a lot of people who ended up in the capital didn't anticipate getting as far as they did. I mean, one of the first, one of the first people who were who was convicted of a felony in the aftermath by the you know, charged by DJ and
all that he wasn't he was. He was charged with just trespassing because he he he made it to the Senate chamber, so he walked in the Senate chamber and then he walked out. I mean, so he wasn't accused of committing any violence. He wasn't accused of attacking any police officers. The only thing that he was charged with was basically trespassing on federal property. But the DJ wanted to throw terrorism, like he said, we need the full maximum sentence because this was a terrorist at terrorism YadA
ya YadA. The guy said he was sorry and all that. So it's like why, like why would that happen, right, and so, and then we look at the video that Tucker had had put out. Again that just doesn't make sense with Jacob Chansley and kind of narrative that was built around him. And so again I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior, but when I look at the riots, I saw important and the local DSADA office dropped eighty percent of the cases that was brought to them during
that time period. It's just like, it doesn't make any either we have an equal justice system or we don't. And it's clear what these just just those two examples is that we really don't.
Well we definitely don't at this moment, but we need to get it back or we're going to lose our country because you know, you can't have a constitutional republic when you have an unequal application of the law.
Just doesn't add up. You're a marine.
Do you think being a marine, do you think that's prepared you for all this coverage? And you know, I mean you've really been on the front lines of so many important issues in the country.
Do you think that prepared you for it?
In some ways? Yeah, obviously there are two different jobs, but I mean, just the key is to just remain you know, slowest smooth, smooth as fast, because it's very easy to be kind of caught up in the moment in terms of about with your adrenaline rushing. Things are going, things are happening, there's steer guests, there's fireworks, id's or
you know whatever, things are going off. And so my job is in those situations is to one just gathered video, you know, get it on video, because that's king for right now. And now. Of course AI might have something to say about that, but it's obviously you have to be able to maintain your cool. And I think I definitely think my Marine Corp background helped me with that. Although I often joke that I saw more action in my capacity as a journalist than as a marine because
I never deployed. I was just in for for six years. But I think it for sure helped me get into the mindset of facing adversity. And a common saying that we have is you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And so you know, these were twelve thirteen, fourteen hour days with with my plate carrier, my backpack, helmet, gas mask, and so it was it was it was grueling. I mean it was grueling work and I was happy to do it, but I was you know, I'm just exact Austin.
At the end of the day, and depending on what was happening, it's like, Okay, we're gonna have to start all over again. And you know, of course it's you know, you can cry about it later or whatever, but you know, there's there's there's a job that needs to be done, and you know people are counting on you to do it well. And so that that kind of ethos and that kind of work ethic that the Marine Corps is stilled in me definitely helped me out in that regard.
Well, Leo Rosas, you're doing great work. Senior writer for town Hall, author of Fiery but Mostly Peaceful. Everyone go check that out. Appreciate you taking the time to join the show and just talk about some of the experiences that you've had on so many of these important issues to the people at home.
Thank you so much for having me.
So that was Julia rose Us with town Hall. He's a senior writer for town Hall, also the author of Fiery but Mostly Peaceful. Amazing name for a book. Great conversation with him. Appreciate him taking the time to join the show. Thank you for listening to the show. I want to thank John Cassio as well, my producer, for putting this together. As always every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. Feel free to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. I love reading those
and seeing the ratings. Thanks so much.
Take care,