America’s Crime Problem with Heather Mac Donald

this bad? And how did we arrive at this place where somehow criminals are the victims. People put up statues of George Floyd, a guy who put a gun to a woman's stomach as him and his friends robbed her in her house. Kamala Harris, our own vice president, told Jacob Blake, who had showed up at a woman's house to re victimize her in Wisconsin then pulled the knife on police officers. Kamala Harris told him that she's proud

of him. So how did we get to this place where criminals are somehow the victims and in the instance of George Floyd, we're actually lionizing them. And how responsible is someone like George Soros and getting these d A s elected. We're gonna ask all these questions to Heather McDonald that you know her. She wrote that book with the War on Cops. It's an incredible book. She's an author of seven, several books in fact, always smart, always sistaining.

She's also a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor of the Institute's City Journal. So we're gonna ask her about all these things. And this is obviously becoming a big issue heading into the midterm elections as well. So how is that going to play out? So all these questions to Heather McDonald, you're gonna want to listen to this. She's always great, always smart, always insightful. Here

she has Heather McDonald's Heather, I talked to you. I think it might have been maybe a year ago about some of these issues. But it doesn't seem to be letting up. This crime sweeping America. You know. Senator Ted Cruz just tweeted talking about violent crime levels and Democrat runs cities like Baltimore, l A, Philly, d C. New York all on track to beat their two thousand one violent crime levels. You know, violent crime up in cities like New York. I think forty from last year is

what he tweeted. How bad is it right now in American cities? Well, it's very bad. It's particularly bad depending on where you live. The fact remains, Lee says. It always has been the case that the vast majority of violent street crime is committed in minority neighborhoods against minority victims,

committed by minority perpetrators. But since the George Floyd riots, not only has UH the homicide and drive by shooting rates in those inner city neighborhoods just gone up massively, but it is also spreading into safer neighborhood We saw last year places like Chicago that established police presence at designated hours at gas stations in the suburbs because people were getting car jacks. You could go and fill your tank when despite the high prices, you get ripped off

that way, but at least your car wouldn't be stolen. Uh. And people are getting robbed on in restaurants, you know, their their their watches are being stolen. And there's also just an appalling level of gratuitous violence that the knockout game has been resurrected where where inner city youth are coming up and just bashing people on the back of their heads. Uh. The anti Asian violence is particularly egregious. The mainstream media and the Biden administration have a phony

narrative that this is all white supremacy. Uh. If you've seen any of the videos of these anti Asian hate hate attacks, they're almost exclusively committed by blacks. Uh. So, so you have a rapid disintegration of social norms and the rightful expectation of safety that all Americans deserve to bring when they go outside. You know, you look at a lot of these cities, like, for instance, I used to live in the West Village in New York. It was a pretty safe city, right, So crime seemed even

more specific to certain neighborhoods. If you avoid those neighborhoods, you're largely okay. As you just mentioned, a lot of these cities like New York, Chicago, it's seeping out into the suburbs, is expanding. Why why do you think that's happening just because we've given such a green light to criminals. Why not? You know, you can you can expand your

range of victims. Uh. And there's just a sense of entitlements these, you know, I would say, I go back and forth in my mind over this, Lisa, which is worse the mass looting, the mass retail theft, or the or the physical violence and in it are Arguably it's the mass looting that is even more disturbing as to what's happening in our society because the one of the primary missions of government is to protect property. Not because you know, we're greedy or or you know, fiendishly averages

are capitalistic. It's because property is what human beings create when they go about the miracle of trade and commerce. And if you can't secure property, if the government cannot secure property, it has no legitimacy left. And and that is now absolutely pervasive. Here in New York. You can't buy a tube of toothpaste. The toothpaste is locked up.

The criminals aren't. The most trivial items of daily youth truth. Toothpaste, shaving cream, lotion are all locked up behind plexiglass barriers because the shoplifting problem is so great and stores would rather this, you know, make make it very difficult for customers. If not closed down entirely, then a cost shoplifters and be inevitably accused of racism. Do we have any idea

what the net economic impact of all this is? You know, we look at places, you know, companies like Starbucks announcing its closing sixteen locations, and some of these major cities like DC, Seattle, Los Angeles, Philly. The list goes on. McDonald's chief executive officer recently, you know, warned about crime gripping Chicago at being an issue for his company. We've seen companies or financial groups like Citadel heading out, heading

to Miami leaving Chicago. Do we have any idea what the economic impact has been on some of these cities because of crime and not being able to get it under control. Well, it certainly is in the hundreds of millions of dollars, I would think. And it's of course the business owners that suffered the most that lose customers when people go online. You know, why why go to Dwayne Read or Walgreens and have to wait for somebody to come and unlocked your toothpaste if you can just

buy online. You've got a white flight going on like crazy from cities where all these progressive liberals won't talk about crime because they think it's racist to do so, but they're voting with their feet. Uh. So you have a redistribution, but it's it's really hurting uh inner city corps.

And we saw the reverse happen in New York City in the in the under Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, where he threw proactive constitutional color blind policing brought crime down, and it continued to go down until we had married to Blasio and the George Floyd rights to be ultimately crimed up. The economic power of that was massive. The tourism industry

came back, restaurants you know, started up all over the city. Uh. And so you can just put that in in reverse gear and understand how it affects things where people are worried about staying out light late and taking the subway home. You know, you're not going to go to that late night show. If you're worried about that, You're not gonna stay around at a restaurant or go out to a restaurant. Uh. If you if you don't want to pay cab fare and and fear that the subway you're gonna get bashed

or pushed into the into the tracks. I wouldn't take the subway in New York. I lived there for three years. I used to take the subway every single day to work to Fox or not every day, but most days to the Fox headquarters in Midtown. I took it every single day. I never really worried about it. Mean, I wouldn't take it super late at night. I wouldn't take it if I had been, you know, drinking at all with friends. But I always felt safe. I wouldn't take

it now. And that seems to be the sentiment of most of the people I talked about I talked to in the city. Absolutely. I just got back to New York from California, and I'm really, I'm really making that calculation. It's so much easier to use than surface streets. But there's just been such a regular string of a violent crime in the subway ways, and you just think, is it Is it worth it? And and this was another

sign of the rebirth of New York. And I could get out at my local subway stop on the Lexington Line at at eleven PM and there'd be people pouring out because they felt safe about staying late at work or work going out for drinks. That's not happening now. I can guarantee you well, and you got to this earlier. But we're in this weird time where the left almost sees criminals as if they're the victims. Yeah, we've put

up statues of George Floyd. You know, Kamala Harris told Jacob Blake, who showed up at a woman's house to re victimize her pulled a knife on police, that she was proud of him. How do how do we arrive at this place where not only are criminals somehow the victims, but in the instance of George Floyd, were lionizing them. Well, I'm going to broach a very difficult topical, Lisa, which is race. And it's something that well meaning Americans just

don't want to talk about. You know, we're the opposite of white supremacists. Uh we we don't want to say

the obvious. It's because the vast majority of violent street criminals are black into a lesser stent Hispanics and well meaning Americans turn their eyes away from that reality, and we are unwinding law enforcement in the name of avoiding so called disparate impact, which is the fact that if you police in a color blind neutral fashion, you will have a negative disparate impact on black criminals because their

rates of crime among blacks is so much higher. For example, in New York City, blacks are the population, but they commit about three quarters of all drive by shootings. If you add Hispanic drive by shootings to that, you account for virtually all drive by shootings in the city. All whites are not committing drive by shootings. That is the reality in every single American city. And so we've decided

that rather enforced the law. If if if arresting those retail all theft vandals, the people that are walking into stores with with trash bags and just filling them out and filling them up and strolling out, uh, that will result in disparate arrest of minority shoplifters. We've decided we'd rather not enforced the law. We'd rather not increase so called mass incarceration of blacks, which is not mass. It is incarceration, It is not mass, It is not disproportionate

to the crime rate in our country. Nobody wants to acknowledge that. Uh. And so if there were not racial disparities and incarceration in police saying, we would not be unwinding the law system. We would say, block them up and throw away the key. But it's because of our understandable guilt about racism in the past in this country that we are turning our eyes away from what's happening now in the streets and and the irony, Lisa, you know, the AFT the mainstream media, the New York Times just

routinely put scare quotes around the crime. You know, they say, all these conservatives they're talking about crime, you know, little little air quotes being being ironizing the topic, as if this is all just a figment of the racist conservative imagination. When they dismiss this current crime increase, which is what they're doing. What they're saying is to us, black lives

don't matter. We were not gonna we're not going to acknowledge that there's this massive homicide increase because we're we to do so, we'd have to acknowledge black on black crime. So they're basically saying, don't pay attention to it, it doesn't matter. Well, it does matter because there are thousands upon thousands of hard working, law abiding residents of inner city neighborhoods who deserve police protection, who are terrified to go out, especial stually the elderly, and we're turning our

backs on them too. Well, that's also I mean, if you look at who the victims are, aren't they predominantly minorities and a lot of these cities, yes, absolutely, So it's like you think they would care about them, you know. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying for for for the media, for the New York Times to to scoff at the idea that crime has gone up and to say, oh, this is just some sort of conservative talking point. They are essentially saying black victims don't matter,

that we don't think there's a crime increase. To to to deny the crime increase means denying that thousands more blacks died in homicide were killed by homicide in two thousand and even more. You can't have it both ways. You can't say black lives matter and then say we're not going to be concerned about this crime increase. Click commercial break more with Heather McDonald. On the other side, how responsible is George Soros and getting some of these

das elected for the increase in crime in America cities? Well, I think he's very responsible for getting these these progressive das elected who are saying they're not going to enforce a whole host of laws because those laws have a disparate impact on black Again, Lisa, I can't stress enough the the ruling principle in our world today is avoiding disparate impact. That's everything that you see that's going on in the criminal justice system today, it is driven by

disparate impact. Soros has put these guys in, uh you know, they're saying, we're not gonna we're not gonna prosecute churnstyle jumping in the subway systems because that has a disperate impact on blacks. We're not gonna uh prosecute theft larceny because that has a disperate impact on blacks. They're even not prosecuting resisting arrest, which is the natire of civilization. If you're not going to punish people who disobey cops,

then there is no more civilization. So that's a very big factor of the lack of prosecution so that there's no criminal consequences. But I would say responsibility also rests with Joe Biden and the rest of the democratic establishments. Biden is still harping on his racism and white supremacy defines this country. Theme Uh. He is. For maybe the less couple of months, he has not been as explicit

about saying, uh criminal justice system is racist. But that's been a constant refrain, both as a candidate for president uh and and since the day he took office and

ever since. He keeps bashing the cops as racist. And and when they hear that, if they're being told that they're racist for going into minority neighborhoods and making stops of of known gang bangers, not surprisingly cops are gonna do less of it because policing is political, and they're getting the political message that this is not what's wanted in society. So the cops have backed off, and that's

allowed again the criminals become emboldened well. And also just not having enough police officers and a lot of these cities, right, I mean, I was reading in you know, Chicago, something like nine hundred officers had left the Chicago Police Department between January and October of one while only fifty one joy And and you know, I know we talked about this the last time You're on about this issue arising and so many of the city, So how big of

an impact is that happening of police officers just being like to your point of after, you know, just getting beaten up so badly being like, you know what, I'm out, Like I don't need this. I'm gonna go into a different career field or move to a safer city, like I'm out. Oh, it's huge. Minneapolis is down a third since George Floyd Race riots. Um, and you know the burning down of the of the third precinct in Minneapolis. Uh, there is a total recruiting crisis in this country. You know,

everybody's trying to poach everybody else. But I don't know a single police department that isn't facing the difficulty of trying to replace the officers who have took off and and they just can't do it. Uh. You know that you can offer larger salaries all you want, but if people are getting excrement thrown at them, Uh, you know, when they try and make an arrest or rocks and bottles and people cursing at them, that's not really a profession of choice that anybody would go into. Who has

a choice. Well, and it looks like the left isn't slowing down with some of this stuff. I mean, the state of Illinois's has a law going into effect I believe in two thousand, twenty three January one two three, ending cash bail in the state. And it's ironically named the Safety Act, which is clearly not uh, and what it's being called is the Purge Act. You know, what kind of impact do you think that is going to have when Illinois specifically looking at you know, the Chicago

area is already just with crime and murder. Yeah, well, Uh, the Illinois legislature is a real problem. Uh. It used to be Rama Manuel in his his police chief used to say, we need stronger gun laws here to prosecute illegal gun possession and use of guns in in crimes, and we need longer sentences. And the Illinois legislature in Springfield would inevitably block that in the name of disparate impact. Because if you prosecute gun criminals at a higher rate,

you're going to have a disparate impact on blacks. Blacks in Chicago, or a little under third of the population, they commit about eighty percent of all murders and drive by shootings. If judges and prosecutors have no mechanism for holding people who have a very high, high likelihood of um committing another crime while awaiting trial that that does add to the criminal burden. Quick break more on the crime problem. At what point do people wake up politically?

You know, you do look at this race between the Attorney to General Tis James against Republican challenger Michael Henry. I mean, he looks like he's potentially in the margin of error. I think it looks like or you know, you've got Lee Zelden running against Governor HOCl Yeah. At what point do people wake up politically and realize that they're just gonna keep getting this if they elect some of these liberals in these cities and givenatorial races. Lisa,

I defer to you on that one. I am just astounded. I am utterly astounded that there continue to be races where the left winds. Whether it's in in Venice Beach, in in Los Angeles, or the failure of the recall of George Gascon, I do not know. And it seems to be that the left will just define deviance down and define its own tolerance down in order not to have to face the fact that their philosophy has been

a total failure. And so they'll just say, well, okay, so there's another you know, twenty vagrants on my street shooting up drugs in front of my children. That's just what it is means to live in a city today. Heaven forbid. I say that the police actually should move people on, that they should not allow this, that the law abiding residents deserve to be the primary focus of public policy, not the deviant, not the anti social. And yet I see again and again, Uh, people still willing

to put up with this. So we'll see. I mean, I frankly, I hate to jinx the racer or be negative, but in in Los Angeles, Rick Caruso should be a shoe in as mayor. He's a got an extraordinary record as a uh developer of of shopping malls. He's got an exquisite sense of taste and design. And yet uh, the career politician Karen Bass is out polling him there and and Los Angeles looks like hell at this point.

If they don't, if if people continue to tolerate this, I I just I shake my head because you would think that at some point self interest takes over the preening sense that oh, I'm being so virtuous by allowing people to decompensate on the streets, and uh, rob everybody else blind one of you know, you've got John Fetterman running for SENNA in Pennsylvania who's previously called for mass release a prisoner, specifically one third of the statewide criminal population.

So you know, it's it's it's sort of boggles the mind. But I think what's really sad to me is just I just don't understand how we got to a place where we're so desensitized to the loss of life. Like one of my really really good friends, Gianno Caldwell lost his little brother eighteen in Chicago. Look at over the week as his little brother was only eighteen years old. I mean, you look at even just over the weekend,

there's forty people shot, seven killed in one week. It's like, how did we arrive as at a place in society where we're just so desensitized to the loss of human life. Well, Lisa, it's it's because the left actually is racist. The people that are being shot every weekend in Chicago, in Minneapolis and Baton Rouge in New Orleans are overwhelmingly black. You know, you it is spreading, It is spreading, and at some point black kids are gonna, i mean white kids rather

going to start getting gunned down. But basically, uh, the politicians and democratic politicians turn their eyes away from this black on black slaughter. It is amazing. The only people talking about it are white conservatives. It's it's remarkable that's the only people talking about it. We're the ones that are supposed to be the white supremacists. No excuse me, you people who are who are pretending this is not happening. You are turning your backs on black victims. What steps

should these cities take to reclaim their city? You know, what what steps should these leaders take to you know, rid their cities of this crime and this violent crime that we're saying, what do you think the most important steps would be the most important step is to say to the police, we expect you to go where the crime is. We expect you to use your your legitimate power in a constitutional matter, in a color blind manner.

But if you generate disparate stop and arrest statistics, which you will, if you are fighting crime where it is happening, we will not come after you and accuse you of racism. We know that you cannot police it's constitutionally in this country without having a disparate impact on blacks. And that is because you're trying to save black lives. Officers have

to believe that they're not going to be attacked. UH. We have to support them when they're forced to use uh lethal force because somebody is resisting arrest and and putting them in the fear of their lives. Uh And and so we know how to do this. This is how you fight crime. There's three things you do. You arrest, you prosecute, and you incarcerate. We are not doing any of them, and it's no surprise that crime is going up. UH. Incarceration is not an end in itself. It's not ideal.

We all wish we didn't have to do it. But the alternatives that the left cause it's all the time of well, we're just going to do more welfare services and do diversion and keep people in the community. Those programs don't work. They have not worked since the sixties and seventies when we tried them, and they're not working now.

It is very hard to rewire somebody who has spent the first twenty years of his life in a dysfunctional home with single mother, series of boyfriends going through the house. If we knew how to do it, it would be great. It would be great if we could empty the prisons, but we we haven't figured out how to do that yet. And so now you don't get a second chance, You

don't get a benefit of the doubt. We are we should start giving the benefit of the doubt to the law abiding, to those who respect everybody else's property, not to those who violated. Well, I think we really need to have a revival of the family and the importance of you know, encouraging families, encouraging both parents to stick around and be there for their kids and you know, to to raise good kids. Were Republicans wrong to embrace criminal justice reform? They were wrong to have embraced the

rationale in which it was done. They were very wrong to for Trump to say, oh, yeah, this is racist. The reason that Alice, whatever her name was, is in prison was because the criminal justice system was racist. No, it wasn't. It was the Black Cock Congressional Black Caucus that said, we need higher penalties for crack cocaine because crack cocaine is the worst oppression that this this UH community has experienced in slavery. Uh, you know, can we

can we fiddle with with penalties here? And they're sure, I'm willing to do that. But what But when you say that you're doing it in the name of fighting racism, that's where things get very bad, because that then becomes the excuse for unwinding everything else. Is there anything else you'd like to leave us with before we go, Heather, vote? Yeah, I mean, do not think that that the country can be saved under the present political leadership. And uh, you have to if you have a close race in your

in your jurisdiction, you have to vote. If it's not a close race either way, you know, if if Republicans look likely to win, vote if they don't vote anyway, Like, just get the bodies out there. This thing can be turned around. Giuliani did it. It's not rocket science. The question is do we have the will to do so? I think that's the question. And hopefully people heed your your warning and your words and and get out and vote in November and encourage their friends and family to

do the same. There's a lot on the line this November. Heather McDonald, thanks so much for joining the show. Always insightful, uh and always honest. I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you very much. Lisa I appreciate talking to you. Thank you. So that was Heather McDonald, the interesting conversation. She's great. I've had her on before. She's so smart. All her columns are smart. She's written a ton of books as well, which are obviously all really well done

and including The War on Cops. So appreciate her time. Appreciate you guys listening every Monday and Thursday. But you know what you can do. You can listen throughout the week. I also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting it together. Leave us five stars, leave us review. I love reading those um and please share with your friends and family. Thanks so much for listening.