03: Family Reunion

This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a bags pack car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.

Mom told me that she needed to go back inside to grab something.

Panic.

I Amy is dead, Sir, I am his dead?

Eight Confusion World about five minutes.

Say sit not to suicide.

One hundred percent.

This is emersing.

What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?

The Truth About Amy?

Episode three?

I am Liam Bartlett.

And I'm Alison Sandy.

It's been three years since Anna has seen her sister Nancy and her Nieces. It's a warm sunny day in Perth, the Swan River sparkling. Only a few clouds can be seen on the horizon. We take two cars, the camera crew and me in one, Anna and Allison in the other.

Good to catch up with him.

Anna says how excited she is about seeing everyone again.

Nice to you to make.

That Before leaving she rings Nancy to let her know they're on the way.

Nancy sounded a little bit of horse this morning.

Yeah, so that generally happens to her voice when she starts to get nervous and anxious about things, And generally that's all to do with Amy. She's had this condition for ten years now, I guess.

So that's why you had to take up the plan for Amy, right, because it's just really too hard for Nancy with everything and having to look after the kids one hundred.

She was devastated when this happened.

It tore Nancy's world apart, and it devastated her as a point and it still does to this day. And I remember how angry I was, not just upset about losing Amy, but how angry I was about how we lost her and the way the police would treat Amy. I was angry, and I remember going back to Sydney and I'd be contacting Nancy and asking her to contact people. Have you called this person, have you asked this question? Have the police got back to you? Did the coroner

And one day it just hit.

Me, It just clicked if I had a conversation with her, and I realized that she can't do this, and it's me that's thinking of all these things to do, you know, people to contact, people.

To speak to, the questions to ask.

And we had a conversation one day and I said to her, how about you focus on looking after Amy's children and protecting them.

And I'll focus on Amy. And we agreed that's what we'd do.

Tell me you've organized a bit of a surprise meeting today with for Larry, the police officer who was at the scene, to come and meet Nancy. Now Nancy has met him, but she doesn't remember.

Right, that's correct.

So I didn't know this until I spoke to Larry.

He was one of the officers that I saw Nancy, I believe, down at the bottom gate when she first arrived at the house after Amy died, and then he and another police officer went to Nancy's home to let her know.

That the detectives had deemed Amy's death suicide. Nancy can't remember that when you receive information like that and you get told something is horrific as what she got told that night I mean, Amy was the love of a life, and when you get told something like that, your world falls apart. How do you remember things that have said? How do you remember? You know, just details like remembering the person that told you that. It is so much of that night that is such a blur to her.

She doesn't remember that phone call to me.

She doesn't remember that night when Amy died, the conversation that she and I had on that phone, But I remember it because it was devastating to me and it was painful. I won't forget it. But it was so much for her being Amy's mum, that a lot of it is a blur. So she doesn't remember meeting Larry that night. So coming here to Perth, I thought I'd reach out to Larry and see if he'd be willing to come to Nancy's place and meet her the first time.

Well, for her it's like.

Meeting him for the first time because she doesn't remember, and for me, I'd like to see him again as well, because the only time I've ever met Larry was in the courtroom when he gave evidence, and it was so brief. He got up and he gave his evidence, and after he gave the evidence, he came down and he shook

And I think it's really.

Important that Nancy meets him as well, because I think, you know, she would like to thank him for giving his honest recollection of that night.

Today's going to be hard for Nancy, though, isn't it.

It will be, I think, although it's although I maybe organize this surprise her to meet Larry, I think also it will probably hit a nerve as well, because once she realizes who he is, I think, you know, it'll be emotional for her. But I think she'll be okay because we'll be together. So that's what makes it okay.

You are for each other what the other isn't I guess, you know what.

It's funny to say that because when Nancy and I had that conversation years ago, and I said to her, you look after Amy's children and I'll look after Amy. I said to her, you know what it's like being one person, but we're splitting ourselves in half. That's exactly what I said to her. She's never been the same to her.

No, she hasn't, not at all. No.

But thank God for Amy's children. You know, they've kept her going. They have been her focus. And it's been very hard for her because you know, at the beginning, you're talking about two little girls who have just lost their mum, and Nancy.

Had to hold herself together.

You know, so many times when Nancy wanted to, I guess break down or cry or whatever, she'd have to hold that because she had to be strong for those children. And those children seeing Nancy upset all the time isn't good for them.

You know, they love their Nan.

I remember when not long after Amy passed and Nancy had to get back to some sort of normality and she was working full time, and she had the kids living with us, and she went back to work.

And Nancy would obviously she stays.

In regular contact with me, and she'd tell me how if she was home late the girls would be very upset and they'd be at the window looking out the window, waiting for her. And she said, you know, they just really want me home and they get upset if I'm late. And I had to point it out to me and I said, Nancy, they're scared you're not coming home. I said, I have to think about it. Their mum was there one minute and the next minute, their mum's gone. Now they're

They don't need to lose their nan. It's awful, Thank you man.

As always, not's just so appreciative for you. You speak with your honey.

Yeah, I'm about to cry. I just hate it.

Like day, it's going to be good. No, it will beat therapy.

I can't wait to see them.

But when I think back about things like that, Alison, like those little girls you know, worrying about.

Nuds you're not coming home. They're just babies. They're just little.

Girls and Amy Amy that Amy's babies and she should be here. Her life was cut short.

Fighting for Amy has taken its toll on Anna and the rest of the family, but they want their story toll. They find strength in each other, but sometimes it does feel very lonely. When we arrive, only Nancy comes to the front door. Amy's daughters and friends know that we the journalists and camera crew are turning up, but they don't know Anna is with us. Nancy takes us through the house to where they're all waiting in the backyard

It's just so much so when you're moving to Sydney.

Oh my god, Oh.

Miss your girls so much.

You don't believe that it's me.

Yeah, cry, I'm not a big fan praying either.

Anna also enjoys a hug with her sister Nancy, who she hasn't seen for three years.

Oh wow, the cool looks goodness.

He doesn't.

Also at the reunion are Amy's best friends Natasha Selsa, who she used to live with, and Aaron Gower, who Amy met at high school.

I said, I wasn't.

Coming back here to your business, mean in Sydney at this time. Be back to your visit me, Tash.

You.

Like Amy. Nancy was a young mum. Amy Lee Wensley was born on eleventh of February nineteen ninety at Nepean Hospital in New South Wales to Nancy and John Wensley. Amy and her parents lived with John's mother, who was so excited about the birth of her first grandchild. Amy would grow up to form a very close bond with her grandmother, whom she would go on to affectionately call Marzy. Marzy adored Amy and she would always fuss over her granddaughter.

She died too.

When Amy died, they aged just seventeen and twenty and the girls are very close. When they were growing up, Amy used to be like a little mum to them. She used to fuss over them and play with them and make sure they're okay and make sure they weren't misbehaving. She was a proper little and as they got a little bit older became teenagers, Amy used to do things with her friends, and sometimes she'd take her sisters along

They missed terribly.

After Amy died, Kelly received a Facebook message from David Simmons' aunt, Chrissy Bull, who said.

I will never ever believe that she took her own life because that was not what Amy would ever do. Kelly, all I can say to you is that Amy was a big part of our family too.

It shows that it's not just our family and friends who who believe that Amy did not take her life. There's clearly members of David's own family who feel the same way or think the same way and don't believe that Amy took her life either.

And that says a lot. I think that speaks volumes.

Then two weeks later, she sent another message to Amy's best friend Erin, saying this, I.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but my family and I are having a private service for Amy.

Chrissy complains they weren't invited to Amy's official funeral.

That is the reason my family wasn't at Amy's funeral. We weren't told nothing at all. Nancy had no intention whatsoever to let Tay's great grandparents even know. We're all drained by what's gone on. I'm not letting off steam to you by any means whatsoever. I just know that this isn't the way Amy would have wanted. This family aren't even allowed to see the girls. Just a few heads up on why my family's hurting, Aaron replies.

What does this have to do with me?

Just let you know we cared for your bestie two.

I understand exactly why her family is feeling the way they are.

I was always the one to help her out. I know what you're saying me, I do. May she be resting in peace and the truth come out in the end.

I love to come as it means.

Yeah, Amy's loved ones settle into conversation, enjoy a game poul, and make the most of their special but limited time together. And I can't believe how much her daughters have grown, both physically and emotionally.

Surprise.

Yeah, just a little, just a little.

I don't worry.

I'm nearly taller than everyone here.

Except except you should take up to me, be tall, hopefully look at you.

Oh my god, will will sit down? It's making me a drink. Oh my goodness.

I mean she's that's okay.

So anyone can.

Tell me anything that's going It's got the braces. How's that going on?

Oh my god?

I just took them out because I can't speak with them. It's like my mouth closed like this.

How much longer you do?

I've had them for like two years and a bit now, but they only said I was meant to have them for like only a year because my teeth weren't that bad.

They weren't that bad.

And I have a dent disappointment, I think on Wednesday, and then yeah.

You'll find out then hopefully find out if I get the mouths and you're just gonna have beautiful teeth.

Yeah, and you're missing what's going on.

Not much is growing one at the moment.

For me, it's what year are you in now?

I'm in year nine and you're liking school?

Yeah, it's all right, nothing too interesting in the moment.

But education is important.

So when Amy was a little girl, when your mum was little, she always just to get upset when she had to go home to Nan. She wanted to stay with me, and she was sitting in the car and I used to do this to her.

Anna points to her eye, her heart, then to Tay and Naya, I love you.

And then she'd do this to me.

She'd point to her eye, point to her heart, point to me, and then hold up two fingers to say, I love you too.

And that's why you two do it, because your mum taught you to do it.

Yeah, what was the other thing your mum taught you that?

I taught her?

There was something and I used to tell her something, and she taught you to that. Oh about sisters.

That's exactly what because it's true, right, that's true.

Right before we know it, over an hour has passed. Larry is due to arrive any minute.

Oh, Nancy, Larry, there are you guaranteed. I'm really sorry.

Buddy's been lingering. Oh man, I was right. I want to say you because I never got to tell you after the inquest. Thank you so much, been there and doing all this, doing all this with us.

It's something I have to do. I have to see the job, even though I'm not a pretty much.

Thank you so much. You would you like to come and meet the girls. I means girls.

Yes. Nancy goes on to show Larry a shelf where pictures of Amy and her daughters are carefully placed, as well as a candle they light on the anniversary of her death. Before then Taynya and Larry meet for the first time.

But this is Larry, this is yeah, and.

You're the tallest and the I picked that up straight away. I should have been a detective.

We wish, yes, actually we wish.

It's a good surprise.

Next stop it so the girls just asking me his surprise visitor and we just told him that you're the police officer.

It turned up the first one to turn up and tried to help their mom.

And I made a pledge that night to Amy. I stayed in the room with the farewell and I made a pledge that I said, we were going to get to the bottom of this.

We'll get to the bottom of this.

Everyone here is united in their grief. Emotions are raw, but they're here for one reason, and I hope that the truth about Amy will finally be realized. Nancy tells me how the passing of time has not made it any easier.

I have trouble sleeping at night. Oh, I can be so tired and I'll go to bed and something will just trickle me in, I sends. I closed my eyes. I go back to that night, that phone call. I raung her when I got home from work, hearing is hearing names voice, hysterical crying, And.

In that phone call, you said, what come here? Come come home?

Kiss shit? You want the girls? Come here? I don't care if you stay here for a month. Here whatever, get here now.

She fully agree with you. Did you feel any sort of pushback?

No, Yes, mum, I'll be there soon. He said, Do you want me to come get here? She said no, because she knew if I would have went out there, there would have been a big argument with David and myself and son. I was there soon, so you're sure I'll be there soon.

She was just trying to find the line of least resistance so that she could get in the car and come here with the girls.

Yes, when I wrung Amy, she was hysterical. If gone, what fuck happens? A hit you because grabbed me by the throat and throw me on the ground. Gone, what he's grabbed you and grabbed you by the throat? For the ground, what the fuck? Because she had a said two bracksta, he got a paralyzed her by doing something stupid.

Like that from her previous neck injury from him.

Being drunk behind the wheel and crushing the car.

It's worth noting here that David Simmons denies being drunk at the time of the accident, and there's no proof he was because police did not attend.

So when you heard her say he's thrown me on the ground.

Yeah, that's when I said, pack his ship and the girls get down here now. And by then only had calmed down. She wasn't as hysterical as she was when I first rung and okay, I'll be there soon. So when I heard the carp up, I've gone to the front door and it was him, and he knows I'm mistead.

Is that what he said to you? That was his first words.

Yeah, that was his first words. I mistead she killed usself. I didn't believe it. I was in shock.

I didn't believe I mean, that's almost possible for you to grasp on your front veranda like I.

Was in shark. I couldn't believe it. That's why I had to go up to the house I just wanted to get up there to find out.

As quick as you could.

Yes, I remember it was raining that night too. I was driving to the house. I was raining.

When you think back on the conversation that you had with Amy, because you must have replayed this over and over in your mind a million times, is there anything in that conversation that you thought she was off kilter, a little bit strange or not. No, so I was speaking normally or her usual.

She was hysterical when I called because it was a big fight that they were having. And when I told her to come here, I'll be there soon, and she wasn't ahsterical animal. And then I thought, she's going to pack some other stuff and come straight down here.

Because when the police first said suicide, you must have immediately gone back to that conversation you had with her and thought, hang on a minute, she.

Wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have put her girls in the car and walk a couple of meters into the house and do that. Why she's put her girls in the car and said where are you going to Nana Pops and staying there. You wouldn't do that. Why would you say we're going to Nana and Pops. We're staying Nana Pops and then go inside and commit suicide.

It's a very strange sequence, isn't it. It is in the immediate hours and days afterward. Nancy, did you talk to the girls? I know they were very, very young.

I've never asked them any questions about that day, that afternoon. I've never asked.

But have they said anything to you? Have they speaking out loud? Have they said something that's made you think? Hang on?

The youngest one as always said, if mom wanted to leave, it would hurt her.

So you take it that's overheard from some conversation perhaps, or.

They've seen the arguments, or they would have seen the arguments the fights that for her to come out and just say that.

So, after all you've been through, after the initial investigation, if I can call it that, and then another one after that, then the cold case review, then the coroner's court ten years on, what do you think happened?

She didn't commit suicide.

You're very convinced, absolutely. How do you then balance up what's happened in the years since with nothing happening.

It's a joke. It's a joke. Why weren't forensics out there that night. They should have been there even if I thought it was suicide, so they should have called forensics out there, But I didn't. Her girls miss their mum every day. They would prefer to be living with their mum and living with me.

How do you feel about the way the police have handled this whole thing.

Oh, it's a joke, absolute joke. I should have done more. That's the why I say it. I should have done more.

Why do you think it's turned out this way? Do you think it's just circumstance? Amy was just unlucky, if I can, If I can put it that way.

Yes, maybe if the detective that came out that night wasn't going on and you'll leave that night after that shit, maybe he would have decided to get forensics out and do his job properly. But to me, my eyes, the way I say it, all you cared about was, well, this is my last shift. I'm going on annual leave. If I get forensics out, I've got to stay longer. That's the way I say it. Not doing their job? Do you worry about going on annual leave.

It's incredible to think that a young mum can be shot in that fashion. Let me put it another way, can suffer a fatal word in her own bedroom, and yet the whole case there, ever, after, almost falls between the cracks. It's very hard to get your head around, isn't it.

It makes me angry. It makes me angry. Don't know how they can make up for that, what they've put my family through, especially Amy's daughters.

How can this thing be fixed? Is it as simple as somebody somewhere developing a conscience?

Well, I hope say there's a million dollars out there for her if they want to come forward, or they can be anonymous, but come forward and told them what they know. And we all know Amy didn't do this. How could she hold a double barrel shotgun? How could she turn her head like that? When she couldn't even turn her head like that because of her neck, should have to move her whole body. So how does that make sense?

Doesn't Well? Your opinion is backed up by the experts, isn't it. There? Exactly not one, but two.

Two biomechanic experts exactly.

Both said to the coroner that they were convinced, in their opinion professional opinion, Amy did not shoot herself yep.

And what's happened. I think so we were failed by the police. The coroner just got no words for it. It's just a joke. Someone needs to have a conscience. Think of aim as daughters. Think of them, what they're going through, what about their mental health? Think of them, Do the right thing and speak up. That's what someone needs to do that knows something. Speak up that Aim is daughters.

And just finally, Constable Larry Blandford.

Oh, here's a lovely man like Oh, I met him properly today. I can't remember him coming to me the nighted and I can't remember seeing him up at the house. But meeting him today was saying nice, knowing that they still play on his mind. He cares and he knows that it's not right how we have been traded, how Amy's daughters have been traded. It's not right.

Well, he was one of three policemen who turned up, two policemen and one police woman, Yes, who turned up when it happened. And all three of those uniformed officers expressed their doubts.

Yes, and still those detectives just over their head. Why and you'll leave? That just pisses me off.

Nancy is referring to what Detective Kirkman told the inquest that he was due to start seven weeks long servicely as soon as the shift ended.

And how disgusting is that just makes me angry. I'd love for him to look at Amy's daughters and look them in their eye and explain why why he failed them.

So Simmons brings the girls, who were already in the car anyway.

Because Amy put them in the car.

Amy put them there. He brings them here.

Pausing here. In his testimony at the inquest, David Simmons says he was the one who put the kids in the car. However, Amy's family don't believe him.

He tells you Amy's dead. Was he emotional, No, he wasn't crying. Was he was he apologetic? Was he?

Oh? He did? Actually later when I was yelling and screaming, was crying, Well, what I know, insanity is. And then when I went to the house, He's come back to the house not long after it, and we were arguing and I'm yelling, screaming and him, it's your fault. And I remember the female police officer grabbing me from behind.

Consortable Dixon, yes, and.

Another officer standing in front of me, hold me back because I was going for him. And then Larry Tommy sitting car.

Why did you say that at the house? Why did you tell Simmons you did it.

Amy? It was basically here, Amy was packing her stuff and coming here, bringing the girls here, and she was staying here. Something made her go back in that house, put the girls in, and go back in that house, and then she was spaced to get in the car and come.

You clearly didn't get on with the bloke. You had him pegged quite early on. It's a bit of a no hoper. As you had those conversations with Amy, did you you said at all in the months leading up to it.

Look, you know I felt sheeney a long long time ago.

Did she want to leave him?

She has tried, but she would kick him out, believe, and then it would be I'm not drinking anymore. I'm not going to do it anymore, the drugs, drinking, and he'll talk his way back in slowly, and then as soon as he's back it's back to his old self. So it's one of those ones. How many? This is another thing that really hits me. They said there's no report of domestic violence. How many women report domestic violence.

In her findings, the coroner acknowledges evidence of a volatile relationship subject to jealousy and threats of separation, with Amy only taking Simmons back because he promised he would change.

It's a high bar, isn't it if you have to make an official report. Difficult thing to do? Yes, did she ever say to you, mum? You know he drinks too much, she's into drugs. How does she characterize his behavior to you?

Sicker and drugs, cigareine and drinking all the time, and like I said, he would stop or stop, I won't do it anymore, and then wais all his way back into a life again. And it's the same cycle over and iron over. Hopefully someone like I said, think of I'm a girls two girls were without that mum, And there right thing. Let's hope that's all. I want someone to be arrested. Charles walked away.

Daughter en honestly well, Nancy has cared for her granddaughters since Amy's passing. Initially David Simmons did see his daughter, but that didn't last long and Nancy now has a lifetime restraining order against him.

I've got to have it on my phone, and I said to take a photo of it and leave it on my phone, like if wearing the shopping center wherever, and he approaches us, that I ring the place straight away, and I've got that to say. I've got a restraining.

Order family violence restraining order. So when did you take this out against David Robert Simmons twenty seventeen? And why did you take that out then?

Oh?

Because he came here and threatened us. I don't know, we're looking after his daughter, raising his daughter, not getting any financial support for his daughter, comes here and threatens us, Like what kind of person? Why would you do that when you know that your daughter's getting looked after and loved and you want to come here and threaten us.

But this is three years after Yeah, Amy died.

There's people out there that know that he's got a violent history. Why would the cords give me that for life?

That's a lifetime restraining order.

Yes, lifetime. That's just saying something, isn't it.

It says a lot, Yeah it does.

It's just someone out there needs to just bring up.

And tell the truth. Yes, the truth about Amy.

Yeah, trust about Amy.

After finishing up my interview with Nancy, Tay and Naya decide they'd like to pay tribute to their mum in their own words for this podcast. And it's worth noting that these are the girls' nicknames. We've purposefully not included their full names to protect their privacy.

I gave Nay the nickname because I couldn't pronounce her name, probably growing up here, and I don't know how I got mine from.

I think I might pot Yeah.

Okay, probably Okay. By the time we put this to air, it's ten years since you lost your mum. Yeah, what are your strongest memories of your mum?

Now? Not a lot, but I remember maybe every we would always watch a movie, either in the cinemas or like at home. We would always like all Matt in ones Is and eat popcorn and watch movies Friday night.

Movie Night.

Yeah, Yeah, that's great.

It's hard, isn't it, because you two work four and almost four and six respectively, and it's very young, isn't it. Yeah, to go back for anyone to think about personal memories.

Yeah, it was a very long time and it was a redden.

We're both very young.

It's always nice to hear stories about how much of a good person our mum was growing up and the woman she became to be.

Yeah, and like.

Knowing that we are both very similar to her, like growing up. We both look similar to her as well. Well, we like the same things that she liked.

Yeah, you can see her features in both of you in different ways.

Yeah.

Always good.

When I'm feeling like sad, I always have the chance to look at all the photos, go through all the photos with family.

It's nice.

Nayo goes on to tell Liam that she can still remember the last time she saw her mom.

Mom. She told me that she needed to go back inside to grab something, and she told me that the next movie we're gonna watch would be Rio. Yeah, yes, so, and then she went inside and then she never came back out.

To be honest, it does have an effect on me, but I don't think it affects me as much as it does everyone else. I know that some people have it a lot worse than others because they were a lot closer to her than some of us, and the pressure for me personally, it's not a lot.

This could have happened a lot easier if, yeah, it was done properly, But it's still going on like ten years now, so it is kind of hard. I'm like happy that something's still like happening because we're getting somewhere, Like it wasn't really anywhere at the start, but now it's kind of getting somewhere and getting closer. So I just hope that you can actually find who don't it.

It's not too painful for me, but I know that some people get really emotional and upset with these things, So I'm used to being there and supporting others in times like this, and I think it's helped me grow.

In a way.

We shouldn't have come to the point where we didn't know what happened. We should have just known, like yes on the day.

Yeah.

Next episode, we hear more from Amy's best friends.

And all I saw was David with his hands around Amy's neck, bent over like her back pushed up against the table with his hands around her neck, and I remember saying him, that's not okay, Like you can't do that, Like she's nine months prey, what is.

Wrong with you? And the photo of Amy which went missing.

That is it? See I got told that they didn't find.

This suddenly turns up again.

See I tried so hard to make sure that I could get this available to ant to back you know the stories of how he treated her.

So dea.

Me say, if you knew Amy and have information, any information about her death, we'd love to hear from you. Just email us at The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot au. That's s e v E N The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot au, or visit our website sevenews dot com dot au forward slash the Truth about Amy. You can also send us an anonymous tip at www dot the Truth about Amy