The Troubleshooter 1-16-25

Yea ridd you need advice? Who you don't help? Come running shouses as we can. Shooter's gonna help coming man.

This is the Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martine.

Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the show. Three oh three seven one.

Three talk three oh three seven one three h five five Here to help you solve problems, answer questions, take complaints, make your life a little easier. Thanks for being here everyone, And we love taking your phone calls talking about problems. We really do, but we like solving you and then I like making comments of the day Today, I'm Brad O'Brien with me from ols or O'Brien Legal Services olslaw dot com and Brad does real estate law, which is

Are what are some of the main issues these days? Brother?

Well, I help people with buying and selling residential and commercial real estate and any kind of dispute and involving real estate. So it runs the gambit from you know, evictions, to mechanics, leans to.

Just anything that can come up with owning or using real estate.

Now, what's the number one though? The number one call Brad, If you had to pick one by team.

I would say probably landlord tenant, both residential and commercial.

Okay, and tell me about the challenges landlord's face right now.

Well, on the residential side, the laws have really change in the last couple of years in a pro tenant way, and it's very expensive frankly for the smaller landlord because they're going to be going to court more often, They're going to be in court longer if there's an eviction situation, and that's just it's just more expensive.

There's more overhead for being a landlord.

Yeah, I mean you have to know your way around, and and there's almost what I.

Call a forever lease provision.

Yeah, the landlord tenant laws in Colorado are very strictly construed in favor of the tenants and against the landlords.

So years ago it was just the opposite. I mean, tenants had no rights. When I first came to Colorado, I would tell people, you know, you don't have any rights, not even for habitability.

That all change.

So if a landlord makes makes mistake by charging a late fee that's more than what the law allows, or tries to do an eviction without falling all the steps exactly, that could be a defect that causes them to start over or have to pay a fine.

Okay, Now, when it comes to this forever lease, what I mean by that is you have to have a just cause to end it.

Is that correct, right?

The law recently changed where someone who's been in a rental for longer than a year has the right to have their least renewed when it comes up for renewal, unless the landlord has one of a few stated reasons for not renewing, and those are the exceptions.

Now I heard this brat, I don't know if it's true.

I heard.

That landlords are making leases three hundred and sixty days.

Now you know that the what's the ploy there? You can read into that.

Yeah, because the way this new statute was drafted in twenty twenty four, as soon as the tenant has been in a rental for a year, then they have this right that that that kicks in that allows them. It gives them the right to have a renewal of their lease. So if but if they've been there for less than a year. So that's that's why some landlords are writing leases just short of a year, maybe eleven months or a day short of a year.

Then they don't have that. The Tennis don't have that right yet.

Ah, then they can write it for another three hundred and sixty day period or whatever.

Well, no, but once they get into the industry, Oh, then it's more than a year. At the one year mark, then the Tennis do have that right to have their lease renewing.

Oh, even if it's a new lease for three hundred and sixty days, because cumulatively has been more than a year. Right, Okay, got it? Got it all right? Well that's interesting. Three oh three seven to one three talks seven one, three, eight, two five. I'm going to go to the phones right now and we'll talk to Craig and Mark's on the phone. We started this yesterday. Craig is just very frustrating. We can't seem to shake our response. You dropped off your vehicle,

They put in.

A new PCM. You had to pay fifteen hundred for that. What's the bottom line here? What are you looking for right now? You just want your truck back. What is going on right now?

Well, it's my car, Kia Forte. They put in one transmission and rebuilt transmission. Then that didn't fix it. It was stuck in fourth year. Once they put that in, it was stuck in first year. And then you know that was in the first two weeks.

The car was there and all.

Of a sudden it's been.

Then they put in Let's just get to the point, where did they put in the PM.

Right?

So they finally put in a used PM and then they put in a new PCM and that didn't work and that's why they put in the second transmission. Then they said, yeah, also needs a new PCM, and so that's where we're at. And they forgot to put in the skid play and anyways, they finished that up. So they finished it up tuesday.

Okay, so what's the issue now?

Well, the thing is the big picture is it's not just my car being in the shop, but what what I've had to go through in three months?

So what do you But what do you have your Do you have your vehicle back?

No, I need to go pick it up. I wanted to talk to you first, and.

So what do you want now? What? What? What do you want?

Now we get right to the point. What do you want now? I mean, are they charging you from was this under warranty?

No?

No?

But okay, you know he's frustrated. What do you want? Fix it over a three month period? Right? So it's the frustration.

Okay, But I'm going to ask the same question, what do you want?

Well, I don't. I've lost over twenty thousand dollars in pay because of this, because of them being incompetent.

Okay, how much did you pay for all the repairs?

The total right now is forty five hundred minus the fifteen hundred that I've already paid. So I owed them three thousand and six dollars and change.

But the whole bill was forty The whole bill was forty five hundred. Yes, okay, I'm going to get give you some straight upfront news based on forty five years of experience. You're not going to get consequential damages from them.

You're just not.

Now.

They can do a they can do a good will for something or other, but Mark tell it like it is marketing.

I've left so many messages with that service manager now it's crazy. So when he goes down there, before you pay, you got to talk to the service manager.

The only real issue I see that he might have.

I don't want to say a leg to stand on because I actually agree with the guy. I can't believe one of deal in Doug's stores did him this way. But the bottom line is I don't understand why he's paying for the ECM or PCM, whichever it's called.

That part drives me insane. It didn't do anything.

They put a bad one in put the ECM in, thinking it's that that didn't do anything. They replaced the transmission. Vehicle works fine. Now evidently it was a transmission. I mean, unless they're going to are you would need it both. But that seems kind of strange. But it's possible.

How much of the you have it, how much of the repair, how much of the repair cost. How much of the repair cost is the PCM. Okay, so I kind of see where you're going. Would you be satisfied if they did not charge for the PCM?

Oh, that would be That'd be great.

Okay, it's mark is called the mark. I'm going to call. I'm going to make another call on break.

I'm going to see if I can't get with the general manager. You know, I got the service manager's name from somebody inside the organization that said the guy was a decent guy. But when he doesn't call back after all these things, I got to disagree with our friend. So I'm going to try to reach out to the GM over there. So I'll do that on break.

Okay. A couple things, Okay, A couple things. I want to mention.

I'm taking emails from people with all kinds of questions about their house. Specifically, they're mechanical, their HVAC, their water heaters, they're everything like that, plumbing, heating, cooling, electric trains. Let me tell you why, because from time to time people call with simple questions and they don't want to hang on the phone, and they just have simple questions and we will answer them. Okay, we'll answer every one of them,

Nine fifty two eighty.

Now, as you know, that's my personal text, and I put these things away seven four seven nine nine nine fifty two eighty. Okay, think of an airplane seven four to seven that I love nine nine nine as close as perfection you can get, and fifty to eighty for the mile high city seven four seven nine nine.

Now listen.

In addition to that, well, any questions okay on on the house and we will answer them, so you don't have to be on hold or anything for just simple questions.

Uh.

Also, we have a question for Brad O'Brien. I'm gonna let him think about it during the break. Keith, what is the question.

Is there a Hey, Tom, is there a reset?

Yes?

If you have a tenant in your apartment, is there a reset time if you moved them out of three hundred and sixty days? Could you say, well, you can come back in six months or a year, But I'm not going to rent you until then because I'm going to preserve my my property rights.

Okay, hold on, we'll talk about that coming up. I'm Tom Martine three three seven one three eight two five five. Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing dot com.

You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Wait time for an insurance check up, free no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hi Tom Martino here three oh three seven one three talks seven one three eight two five five. So this is

What you're saying is something else.

What if you have a three hundred and sixty eight day or sixty two day lease and then cease the lease, have some kind of a brief respite in between, and then revive the lease.

Is that what you're.

Saying, Yes, sir, just just as a way to get around that law and to maintain your personal property rights.

Okay, Brad, Well, is that valid?

I mean, can you use that you built that loophole, Brad and do a lease.

Well, I don't even know how you're going to get to do it.

I don't know how you're going to get a tenant to do You're gonna ask the tenant after three hundred and fifty or at three hundred and sixty days to move out for thirty days?

Well, my thought would be, would there be a six month like if you waited six months, could you Yeah?

No, I know, I know that's a good question, Brad.

Is there a time that they wait and reinstitute a lease so they can claim you haven't been there more than a year?

Well, this new statue does not get into how many days it takes to the of the tenant being out of there and then coming back.

To establish a new tenancy.

It's really a question of fact of is there a new and different tendency from the tendancy that was there for the first year.

And that's not really written into the law.

No, it's a question of fact.

You know.

It doesn't say if you move out for thirty days and come back you start over.

It doesn't. But it doesn't say you don't start over either.

Yeah.

I think you probably could establish a new tenancy if there's a thirty day break in the middle, if they actually moved out. Now, if they didn't move out, I don't think you're going to find any loopholes to this statue.

What if you had the husband and wife team and the first three sixty is the husband and the second three sixty is the wife.

That's just a question of fact that that's really you'd have to convince judge that it was a new and different tendancy. But you know, you'd be looking at who was on the lease originally, was the second spouse there for the first year. You know, it was a commonality among the tenants.

I understand that.

Of course, if you were to move somebody out after a year and say, hey, you can come back in thirty days, I'll write you up a new lease.

Nobody's going to do that.

It's impractical for the ten but the end probably for the landlord. But I'm just trying to trying to come up with waite.

But wait a minute, it is at all if you did do a lease for three hundred and sixty two days or whatever it is, at least when when the thirty days comes up to the end of that lease, you could make a decision, right Brad, if you want to keep these people in your apartment.

I mean, there's is there anything wrong with that?

Well, this news statute requires a ninety day notice prior to not really doing someone.

Okay, that's fine, then you still have nine months dealing with leep.

Hold on, Mark, hold on, let them clarify.

Go ahead.

Actually, the ninety days does not apply to someone in the first year. So probably if the lease says a decision has to be made thirty days in advance of the of the of the end of the first year, you can get that thirty day notice. But once they're into the second year, then there has to be this ninety day notice of non renewal.

So even if it was one year, if you give a thirty day notice, it's not a just cause.

You don't have to make it three hundred and sixty days, do you.

If you have a just cause, then you then you give a ninety day notice.

Okay, I'm talking about very first year of tenancy. Yep, you're in the eleventh month. You let them know you're not renewing. Doesn't have to be a just cause they haven't been there a year.

No, because that just cause doesn't apply to a tenant who's been there for less than a year.

So therefore there's no reason to write the lease less than a year, is there?

Well, yes, because it's this one day problem that where okay, the statute is ambiguous, where they don't have the right until that three hundred and sixty fifth day, but the first, the least, the one year lease does get the three hundred and sixty Okay, I got the last day the right kicks in.

So on the very last day, the right kicks in. Okay. So therefore, if you want at least.

If tom, what if you if you give them, if you give them that notice and you say, okay, your lease will end on this day, which would be the three hundred and sixty fourth day, let's say, just to cut it close, and the tenant says I can't be out there and they end up staying that day. Are they now grandfathered in and say you you now have to renew my lease and then I have to go on a victor.

That's a good point.

Well, the statue does not get into that question, and there's no case law on this today.

So I would argue that no.

Proper notice, the tendency was terminated because the written notice was given ahead of time that it was was going to terminate, and it did terminate.

So so or you could go with the sterra turnkey and do rentals in a state that isn't crazy.

Yep, that's very good point.

This is I know Brad's gonna think this is silly, but the way that's written, honestly, and I'm not kidding, if it's leap year is at three hundred and sixty six days.

The statute point.

I believe, is written in terms of one year, not three hundred and sixty five days.

So yeah, so it would leaves the calendar year. Yeah, it's a calendar year. So if it is a year where February has more days, it would have more days.

If it's less, it would be less. You know, all, what's going to do?

And I said this and I'm not trying to get political, but honestly, I don't even know what mark.

Yeah, people love when you do go ahead, it's gonna do.

It's gonna do nothing but raise prices. Ultimately, it costs more for landlords who would want to own property in a state where you can't terminate a lease.

The whole thing of having.

A lease is that's why we agree to something for a year, then it's done. How dare they come in and do something so stupid? Well, I'll tell you why this came about.

There have been a lot of people who have been in a place five or six or seven years.

Not just one, and it's their home, and.

They're even willing to pay reasonable rent increases and all that, and they just are moved out and because of something and they feel it's not just Now, that's just the way I'm talking about the spirit. I'm not saying it's a good or bad reason. That's the spirit of the law.

If you look at you thing, man, it take that person you're talking about.

How about if I go, oh, wow, that.

Area in Washington Park or wherever's really coming along, I want to go ahead and put one hundred grand into this house and rent it out for triple What I am?

I can't even do that?

Well, no, that just one of the exceptionally major renovation is.

A major renovation is an exception?

What about raising rents because that's okay, Look, okay, Now, let's say there's a major fire somewhere in the state or in the city, or let's say something changed and the housing market is such that rents you could get way more rent Are you restricted like in communists or Moscow?

Are you restricted on what you can raise your rent. Well, there's gouging rights.

Well, hold on, Mark, Colorado, a landlord can raise a residential rental rate once every twelve months on rolling basis.

But how much?

Uh, well, presumably it's market somewhere, I mean the market.

Is there a law that says you can't raise it too much?

Well?

Yes, this, this new statue says that the landlord cannot raise the rent in the punitive way in order to circumvent these protections that have been in.

And what is it? What was he? What is that though? Is there a percent?

That's a question that.

Okay, So what Mark said it's like an anti gouging thing.

Well, no, what I'm saying is in Colorado we have laws if there's a natural disaster proclaim, just like California and the kit Mark.

Yeah, I just Mark, I just gave that as an example.

But I'm just saying, I'm just saying in general, go ahead, man.

Tom, I'd like to add something that also, if you move a tenant out for remodeling, then the laws states that you are required to give them first writer refusal to come.

Back, so that.

You don't have that you don't it's not a loophole. Because you are supposed to give that tenant the first writer's usual to come back to move back in after remodeling. Now, if you want to raise the prices.

That's different.

That's one thing, But you still have to give that tenant the first writer's fusal. I mean, it's a complete it's a complete and utter usurpation of homeowner rights and property rights in the state. It's unbelievable.

So you know what people voted for that, dude, I.

Know, I know.

That's what I don't understand is people are too stupid to realize that everything they vote for has consequences, but they don't seem to They don't seem to care, because all they care about is what suits me.

Right now, well, actually it's not even that. Well I've said this before, and I think Mark even agreed with me. It is incredible the amount of pain, now I'm not talking about benefit, the amount of pain that someone will endure to be politically correct. It's almost like they're willing to endure it just because they Yeah.

But again, I mean that it does get to a point, and I'll give you an idea of Denver. In my opinion, Denver is really getting to that point quick. You realize we had another stabbing last night around.

Mark the point mark you mean the point where the pendulum will swing the other way. Yes, okay, all right, we got to take a break.

I'm Tom Martino. Hold on quick.

It could be for some people, it might be economics. For some people, it might be crime. When you live in a neighborhood where randoms are walking around stabbing people.

There's an issue. Mark is saying, and I know what he's saying.

There are triggers that will jult you out of your current political standing.

If you heard enough.

There are I say, yeah, there are, but they have to be major because look at the pain that Californians endure for there for there, I'm.

Just gonna say, for that.

But this fire is gonna wake them up. You think Newsom's gonna get re elected after this? How about that mayor? I'll be shocked if she's not tossed out on her ass.

Okay, we got more coming up. I'm Tom Martino. Now this I brought to you by waterpros dot Net. I can't say enough about healthy water. You know, look, I try to stay healthy water is so important, especially drinking water reverse osmosis you will never get, never get for less never than waterpros dot net at the kitchen sink triple filter reverse osmosis, or you can get a whole house system.

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What's the reality?

Hi Tom Martine here, Welcome to the show.

Three oh three seven to one three Talks seven one three eight two five to five.

You know, real estate's a big topic. It's a hot topic.

Brad O'Brien. You know we have a Vestera turnkey I talk about now. I'm not trying to get you to do anything except weigh in on issues. It's not a pooled investment, by the way. The reason I say that is in real you know, since I've had and I opened my financial advisory firm, you can't do pooled investments without calling it a security, and you have to have all kinds of disclosures and safety measure and all that.

What he does is he hooks people up with.

The properties and they own the property, they have a loan on the property, they have money in the property. He finds markets where he finds good His research shows people where there's good appreciation, It shows them where there's good rents, and then he tells them when to sell and he counsels them. So he makes his money on commissions going in and coming out, but you're not even obligated to use.

Them, but he hopes you do, and usually they do.

And then he hooks up a management company and he doesn't overcharge or mark up the management services. You work directly with these top notch management companies. And then he even has a service I think it's an extra two hundred bucks a year or something where they take all of your daily phone calls in if there are any, and make decisions for you and help you make decisions. Now, being a landlord, he says, it's being a landlord without the conventional hassles and risks.

Overall.

What do you I'm not asking for endorsement, I'm asking like as a as a model.

What do you think I mean? Have you heard me advertise that. What do you think of that concept?

Well, I think a lot of landlords at some point, especially smaller landlords, do want to get out of the business and out of the day to day management. They don't want to fix in toilets or even hiring people to fix.

Toilet especially in outside of the state markets.

Yep.

So, so some landlords would like a way to stay in the real estate investment game, and but let somebody else do the daily work. And so that means hiring so either buying a small piece of a real estate investment or hiring a property management company to manage for them.

Yeah, so I like the concept personally, I do.

Tom, Yeah, I do, And I know I've talked Yeah, yeah, And I talked to BO about investing in general Bo and I, and it's a good system.

Now, some people don't want to come up with a minimum. I think it's around sixty five grand. So I've been putting together in my I'm putting together to my investment company, my financial management company, or my advisement company, smaller LLCs that will be probably a security. We have to do it in a certain way where people are chipping in, and so instead of one person owning one property, we have a small LLC that owns each property For people who want to do that, but they don't want to

I am an owner of a condo in Westminster and recently there has been a complaint made against me, and so I found out from the HOA manager and I asked him to be able to see it, but he says that this is not his to share. And at the same time he is making references about something about me being loud and not cooperating with the police.

So it like, okay, you hold on, I will come right back to you. No, No, you hang on, Catherine, We're gonna come right back to I promise. Three O three seven one three eight two five five Denverregen dot com. If you're looking for stem cell therapy, or hair rejuvenation Denverregen dot com. Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing dot com.

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Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance Paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com to list your home with Remax Lions three all

They told me that I am supposed to reduce my level of noise and stop becoming a nuisance to my neighbors.

Oh do you think you make noise?

I don't think so. Like I talked with all of my neighbors except for the ones upstairs, and I used to talk with them as well until some changes have happened. But I after that happened, after the complaint, I talked to my neighbor through the wall and I was like, Hey, here's what happened. If you hear anything from my apartment, please let me know, because like, if you hear it through the wall, and if I just turn it down, then definitely somebody above me through the floor will not hear anything.

But let me let me.

Ask you a couple of things. Let me ask you. I want to hear your problem. Go ahead, what did you say? Your problem is? What?

So I would like to know exactly what was written in the complaint because when I asked the HI manager who, and.

You want to know that so you can address it.

Exactly.

I want to know because he mentioned something about me not collaborating with the police, and it's like.

What have you ever? Have you ever talked?

Hold on, we'll come right back to you, and more calls coming up. Go with a sure thing Denvers best Roofer, Excel roofing dot com.

You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Three leave time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison, call Compass Insurance. Pay too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance. Three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Yeah, rip.

News.

Need advis who.

You don't have?

Come, run in just as fast as you can. Shooter's gonna help.

Come man, This is the Troubleshooter Show. Now, Tom Martine, Hi.

Tom Martino here, Welcome to the show.

Three oh three seven one three talk seven one three eight two five five.

How are you doing? What can we do for you?

Let me I know we are here to solve problems and answer questions and take complaints and make your life easier and just fight for truth justice in the American way. So Brad O'Brien is with us, and I'll just go right back to that shot.

He is with us.

He's a real estate attorney, but he knows a lot about hua's and condominiums and all that. And so because that's the part of real estate right so olslaw dot com. Brad O'Brien, I'll give out a number later. And Catherine says she had a complaint filed against her for being noisy. She doesn't know specifically what the complaint said, but they said she wasn't cooperating with police and she was noisy. So, Catherine, I want to ask a few questions first and then Brad does.

Want to weigh in on this on your rights.

So, Catherine, do you never ever encountered the police regarding a complaint for noise?

Ever?

I did want about a year?

Okay, well during that how long ago? Catherine? Catherine, about a year ago? And what was what was it like? What did they say?

So they came in and they told me I was too noisy At the time I was. I know that I had a huge role with my parents and I was listening to music. Afterwards, I was stressed. I did not realize. So they came in. They told me that I turned it down. Everything is fine.

They left.

They were understanding too, like the police was, so I thought, and.

You never and you never argued with them. You never argued with them.

No, Like I know I was loud, I did not realize then.

Did you hear anything since then about noise?

Not until this last complaint and that was from the HOA. I never heard from the police.

Okay, And when did the one come in from the h u A.

Still, let me just just double check. That was in November, end of November last year.

And what has been doing? What? What?

What is the consequence of this complaint? In other words, what did they say you're fined? Did they say you're still doing it? I mean, what if you got this complaint in November, why are you calling me today?

Because like there was no consequences. But it worries me, Like I don't I was trying to figure out how to get the complaint itself, how to look at it.

Okay, so you're but but but basically since that, let me get this straight. Since that notice, nothing else has happened.

Nothing, nothing whatsoever. Okay, we just exchanged it.

Okay, that's good. H Well, that's good. That's good. That's good. Okay, I would drop it. But but you worried because you don't want to duplicate it.

No, no, no, no, no. It worries me that they are talking about the police. It's like I haven't done anything, and this sounds like okurious accusation.

Okay, well, but nothing came of it. Nothing came of it.

They didn't call the police again, Catherine, I would just just let it go and make sure you keep your radio over.

Brad O'Brien down, Okay, let's weigh in with Brad O'Brien, attorney at law.

Hold on, Brad, Yeah, I think a HOA unit owner is entitled to procedural due process if they're going to be facing a fine by the HUA.

But so that would include.

A notice of violation in writing, and also to know the facts of the complaint that was made against them.

I don't believe that the KaiA Wa the Hoa statute.

Gives you the right to see the actual complaint that the other person made.

But I think you should be able to know the facts of.

That, Okay, even now with just a notice.

No not now, there's no controversy.

Right now, there's no controversy.

So but unless they were taking action on it, then you could know the details. But the details wouldn't be who did it. The details would be the details might have a few dates and specifics, but right now, because it was simply a notice, but right now because it was simply a notice.

Catherine, it's not going to happen.

Yeah, there's gonna be a hearing on a noise complaint. That's when she would have these discovery rights.

Okay, I mean ken, Okay, Yeah, Going in.

The future, if I have another complaint, what are my rights?

Like?

What where can I go if the HOA manager tells me that he is not going to give me any details about the complaints? Where can I go to get that from?

But if he's but if the manager is not doing anything about it, what's different?

Yes, yes, I need, I know, I know. But if in the future, if something happens, I hope it won't, I will make sure that I'm quiet and everything. But like, I don't know what how to defend myself. I basically I waited for so long because I feel powerless. I feel like I don't know where to go. I don't know who to ask about stuff like this. I read the hol rules and regulations that we have for our for our condo complex, but it doesn't specify what is the course of action that the owner can take when

And is it only but that's going to be governed if it's just a complaint.

I still don't understand if they're not trying to take any action. Who cares if someone complains, because I think we should take a look at this letter.

But they did not.

And when at such time, at such time that they take action is when you can ask for specifics, but you're not going to find out who's doing it.

I mean, I think you're you know what, Catherine, how old are you right now? I'm just curious how old are you?

I'm thirty five?

Oh, you're young? Young? Young? Okay, Okay. I think that are people around you older.

Some of them.

Some of them aren't the neighbors above me who started the whole thing there about my age?

Okay.

What I'm thinking is there could be there are people sometimes that just lay low and look for problems.

You know, And it depends sometimes when.

There's if somebody, if somebody's much younger, or you know, I mean, but sometimes that happens. But I don't get the sense that's happening. You only had one complaints that you've been there.

Yeah that's true. Yeah, no, so don't worry about it.

I would go about mcatherine.

I think you're you're letting it take up too much real estate right now in your brain.

I mean, I really do.

If it becomes a habit and these keep coming, if there's a consequence.

Then I heard something that Catherine said that's kind of concerning. She said this letter she got a few months ago.

It was in November.

Yeah, gave her twelve days to respond to something.

Was there something that wanted to response?

He said that the a joint manager said that I have twelve days. I had twelve days to respond to the complaint against me.

Well complete, so multiple complaints.

No the complaint because she said complaints there one.

The one that's the one that they made about the no one.

So there's only been one. Yes, there has been one. God I turned. I'd say they're too loud.

I mean, just do it. Just go say hey, my neighbors are being too loud. So I've gotten a letter.

I got a letter from or an email from my Hua saying and there was a little picture in there saying that my my green garbage.

Can you know the one with the lid on? It can be seen from the street.

You know, now, as you're walking behind the sidewalk, if you stop, literally, there's one spot two feet two feet area that if you're in that two feet area and.

You peek behind my gate, the metal gate, you can see.

The corner of that. Can you really can? So I said, I noted, and I moved it. Thank you for letting me know now what I would say, Katherine, I would have Did you respond.

To them back then?

No? I wanted to find out first what the complaint.

Well now it's way late, it's way more. Yeah, well it's too late now.

So she knew what the complaint to leave it alone.

I'd leave it alone, I just Catherine, I really would, Honest to god, I don't think they're out for you. I don't think they're out to get you. I think you know, you might have had a period in there where you were noisy and upset. It's done, it's over. Forget it. If you get another complaint. What I would say is this. Here's what I would say. This is the second complaint I've gotten, and I want to cooperate in every way possible. If I could have more specifics,

They would complain that we were walking around we were just too loud. They literally even called the cops on us a couple times. Okay, so guess what she does.

Why?

The woman has a baby, the most colicky child I've ever heard in my life. So I would record her kids screaming all night, and I called the cops on her about twenty times. And that's I won the war. She started the battle. I won the war. Oh Son that's so big of you.

Thank you.

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Okay, So.

We are discussing all kinds of stuff, but part of its real estate, which a man, real estate enters into so many areas of law, I'm gonna ask something silly, It's not silly, I'm gonna ask it.

Real estate was never an area of law that really had a lot of a not really, I.

Mean like it does now because because now you people don't stand houses their whole lives anymore. I mean, you know, three to five years, sometimes seven years. Well landlartenant, uhtenant totally different.

We're not not a big thing historically, but uh, when you're buying or selling property, or especially buying property, you want to understand that the seller has good title to what they're selling you. And so that's that's the core thing that a real estate attorney helps you with, is reviewing title and making sure you get what you think you're buying.

I think people misunderstand title insurance.

And correct me if I'm wrong.

Title insurance says mister customer of ours, We're going to search the property you're buying, and we're going to see if there's anything recorded against the title or any dangers to the title that could encroach upon your ownership or diminish your ownership. If we find them, we're going to list them, and then we're going to ensure that.

We did an accurate search.

So if something comes up that we missed, that is the title insurance. It is not part of the stuff they found and it is not part of something that was not reported or recorded.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Title insurance policies very limited. Yeah, they don't give you the full history of the title back to patent, you know, when it was opened by the federal government. That would be called an abstract right only in some a few jurisdictions across the country, like Oklahoma or perhaps eastern County of Colorado.

Would you actually do.

Still do an abstract or title the shows every single owner in all of its history. Now, title companies just give you that stated history of what's relevant now on the title of a property, and if they miss something that causes title to be unmerchantable so not good title, then that's what they're insuring against.

But only if they only if they did not find it.

Right, if they disclosed it and put it on the exceptions list, then you don't have Then it's out there, it's disclosed, and you say you have title.

Insurance for Yeah, you don't have title insurance for anything they list. Now, here's always been the argument with title insurance. We missed it, but it wasn't there. It wasn't anywhere in cyberspace, it wasn't anywhere, so we're not ensuring it.

Yeah, there are. Title policies have many exceptions, that's right.

And one of them is if it's not of record, and I say, well, I can do a surge. In other words, so Brad, what could happen that was not of record that they must ensure?

I don't think they have to.

Well, for example, a mechanics lean can actually work backwards in time and can be recorded after a closing, and it can actually have a retroactive effect to before the closing.

So would that be covered, Yes, it would, It really would.

So if it wasn't recorded at time of closing, so they.

Didn't, they didn't list it, they.

Could say the customer could say you better ensure me, and the title insurance company can't say, well, there was no way for us to know.

You know, some title policies insured against mechanics laens that others don't. And it's important to have an attorney review the title commitment that you're receiving.

Have you seen good and bad commitments?

Yes, well, I've seen things on an exceptions list of a title policy that you should not accept. But title insurance companies will put those things on the exceptions list that they're not going to ensure for, and many buyers just go along with it, but they don't know that they shouldn't access.

So let's talk about coming up that retroactivity.

But I want to take James first. James, what's going on? James? What's happening? Brother? Yes? I Ken, James.

Okay.

So I'm down here in Colorado Springs and in May I was in a traffic accident on I twenty five. I got a ticket from the state patrol and I didn't think I deserved the ticket. So I showed up to court and said, I don't think I'm guilty of that, and he said it for a hearing.

What were you?

What?

Wait?

Let me ask you a quick question bro a quick question.

What was the ticket for.

Following too closely?

Okay, go ahead, keep going.

Yeah, my my questions really aren't really related to the traffic ticket, but more Okay, lawyer that I hired to defend me, so I should can't keep going the first hearing and I pled not guilty, and they set it for a hearing. I show up for the hearing and the State Patrol is there and I said, well, I'm going to get a lawyer. So they re said it and another month and a.

Half, Oh say so wait, wait, wait, so you hired the attorney after you went alone?

Correct, after my first appearance, I told god it Yeah, so I got a lawyer to iaid the fee. I met with the lawyer for about twenty minutes and he said, oh, this sounds easy. I'm glad to do it. I paid the fee.

How much?

Three thousand?

Okay, so I paid.

I paid that I met him.

He said, why was it so?

Why was it so important to you to fight this? I'm just curious.

Well, for a couple of things. One, I didn't do what I was alleged to have done, and the state Patrol at the time of the accident told me that he was going to go to the hospital and possibly give the guy that I maintained was the cause of an accident. The state patrol said he was going to the hospital and might give him a ticket.

So I kind of thought, he wa, wait, let me ask you something, James, James James, I need to ask something.

Did that guy.

In what way did you feel that guy caused the accident?

His hood came up on his jeet because it wasn't latched on I twenty five, he slammed on.

Oh behind him stand on his her brakes and I smacked into the rear of her because I just changed into the right lane and they were or stopping.

So I James James, that plea wait.

So that police officer didn't take that into consideration, for God's sakes.

Well he did, and he even said that our stories matched, meaning the ladies in mine and my story was is that he stopped in the lane, not on the shoulder. She stopped behind him. I hit her and she hit him, and he was going to the After he gave me a ticket, I said, hey, wait, why I didn't cause the accident? The guys whose hood came up caused the accident, He said, Yeah, No, I'm gonna go to the hokit.

You're right, You're right. You hold on, James, I'm with you. Hang on. I will come right back.

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I'm Tom Martinez.

You're a troubleshooter, James, I'd be very now tell me so. I'd be pissed off at being accused of this, But now how do we get to the problem about the attorney.

Yeah, so so I hired the attorney. He founded real promising and I thought, well, this is great.

He knows what he's doing.

He's going to represent him well, and it seems like an easy case to him. So the date that that I was secondly given, he didn't show up because he was in trial. And I told the judge, well, he's in trial. And the state patrol said, well, you said you were going to have a lawyer. I said no, I said, I was getting on.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

He did not enter a delay or did not ask for a continuance.

He just didn't show.

Up, correct, And he did that?

No? No, no, yes, wait wait wait wait wait?

But did he see what attorneys usually do once they're representing you, They enter a continuance. Isn't that right, Brad? I mean, isn't that up to the attorney? You know, Brad's an attorney. But if you were going to go to if you have a hearing, said and you can't make it, you don't leave it to the client to show up and say my attorney couldn't make it.

No, an attorney would definitely ask for a continuance.

Okay, so keep going, and that's that's exactly what happened. So I showed up to court and I told him I was getting there, so you.

Had no idea. You had no idea this guy wasn't going to be.

There, correct. So we said it for a second court date, and that would have been the eighteenth of November, and sure enough, I'm there, I'm prepared, and I hadn't talked to the attorney. I left him a couple of messages that we should get together and talk about it. He never responded, and then he didn't show up for our trial date, which was eighteen November. So the judge told me, he said, basically, lawyer or not pointing his finger at me, you need to be ready next time, and he said

Apologizes to this guy.

Let me let me get this straight. Bro, let me let me get this straight. I don't care about dates. Okay, this man did not show up for any hearing ever.

Well, yes, he did so the eighteen November.

No.

No, I don't want dates. Here's what I want. Hold on, listen, James, just wait for helping you. The first hearing after you hired him, he did not show up, is that right?

Correct? And I just pled not guilty. The court said it for eighteen November.

Yeah, but hold on, I'm talking not show James. James, you said please just wait, Okay, just wait. I know you're anxious.

Just wait.

You said you pleaded not guilty. Correct, Please, James, you said you pleaded not guilty and then hired him. Okay, so after you hired no.

I hired him and then showed up to my next court date with an attorney with an attorney hired, and he didn't show up. So at that point I played not guilty, and the judge gave got it continuance to eighteen November, which is a month later, a month got it?

So he didn't show up. That's the second hearing, and he didn't show up then.

Either, correct, So eighteen November.

And then what about the third? What about the third hearing?

The third hearing was actually the time after the judge told me I needed to be ready. So between the second kay, I did the work to find out what the state Patrol had as far as his body cam and death.

Okay, got it? And what did he show up for the third hearing?

Kind of so again Monday, I'm ready to go to court with no attorney or an attorney. I just don't know. I haven't heard from him. And that was Monday, sixteen December.

But for the third hearing, for the third hearing?

Correct, Okay?

Then what the third time?

I get into court and the judge says, where's your attorney? And again I shrugged my shoulders and said I don't know, So the judge had the state Patrol call my attorney. The attorney answered and said I'm sorry, I'm on my way. Do you still need me? And we're out in the hall and the state patrol just needs to go back in and tell the judge that he's on his way.

Blah blah blah, right right right then what he.

Gets there late. I'm waiting with the last case, and he said, well, do you feel comfortable testifying? He said, yeah, that's no problem. So we get up there. The state Patrol presents this case against me. The state Patrol had a witness against me. And I get up there and I answered the questions of the state patrol.

Now was this guy in court with you?

Was he?

Yes? He got there late, So the judge had the state Patrol call him and asked him if he was conning. And I didn't know if he was because he hadn't showed up twice before, so I said, I don't know. So finally, the attorneys on the phone with the state patrol in the hall and we decide that the attorney's on his way. So I'm waiting in the hall and when the attorney gets there, we go over things briefly, we go through the whole trial, and as we met in the hall, he again apologized and said he can

But oh good, I'll had.

To go through the stress, the extra expense, and no, I get it, the possibility of and he was but.

Let me explain something. No, no, no, no, let me let me explain something. You did go through a lot of crap. And here's what I think. I'm on your side. But those expenses, those court expenses would have been paid anyway.

You can't charge him for that.

That would have been part of your bill on top of legal fees.

Okay, it would.

Have been so, so how didn't discharge any court fees? The fees that I paid were one to the attorney and two to the State Patrol for the disclosure of all the.

Jam James, James, let me reword it. James, any court costs you paid or did not pay, that's fine. But then any other document fees like to the state Police, you would have had to pay anyway. It's not your attorney's fault. If he had paid them, he would have billed you for them. It's not your attorney's fault. Not that part of it, Okay.

The fact that you had to do it is BS. Okay, that's BS.

But now what I believe is you owe him fricking nothing and he should refund your retainer. And I think you should go to the Supreme Court Grievance Committee. Do they still call it that, Brad, What do they call it? Fee dispute Committee with the Barsosa. You absolutely should get your money back in my opinion.

Well, and that seems more than reasonable and generous to me. So what I did, as I said, yes, I thought about your offer to refund my money, and what I'm willing to do is take half of your three thousand dollars feedback, in half of the eight hundred and fifty that I paid that you should have paid out of the fee, or he.

Shouldn't have paid it.

Okay, See, James, James, we're at a disconnect. Okay, let's just say, for argument's sake, let's say he did represent you adequately and put in the time to earn three thousand. Let's just say that, for arguments sake, you would have been billed that three thousand on your retainer and the eight hundred for evidence you would have been billed that he does not owe that to you. I am all for trying to get your three grand back. Did you get your three grand back?

No?

I told him. I told him in a test that yes, I considered it, and of the thirty eight hundred on into it, that I would be happy to get nineteen hundred back. And he has not responded.

Wait, wait, wait, I don't understand this.

You only want nineteen hundred back, and he's willing to give you the retainer, the entire retainer back.

Well, he said he was willing, but he has yet to do anything.

Okay, but here's what I don't understand. James.

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Now.

The money you paid for evidence is an expense that you would have paid any time. But as I understand it, I know he didn't do anything. I know he didn't do anything. I know he didn't do anything yet. But at first he offered, as I'm understanding this, he offered to give the retainer back, and you actually counter offered saying you would take even less money.

Is that right?

Essentially? Yees? So I paid him three thousand and he offered. Yeah, the first time he didn't show, he offered.

To refund that back.

That's the third time he didn't show.

We met in the hall and he again offered to pay some.

Of that brand we need. We need to work on this.

You should get your three grand back that and there's a real easy way to do it. I want you to hang on if you could for me, sir, you have been totally abused.

This is bull crap. I'm Tom Martino.

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News need so you don't have as.

You can shoot is gonna help?

Come man, This is.

The Troubleshooter Show.

No Tom Martinez Hi, Tom Martino here, I got Brad O'Brien with me.

O'Brien legal services, real estate.

Love.

We've been talking a lot about real estate, but anything else you want and uh uh, this one thing really pissed me off.

Now.

Now, now, Brad did say, as an attorney, if you can't make hearings, you file continuance. You don't leave it to your your your client to show up and not know where you are.

I mean, that's ridiculous, right, And then.

Brad says, you don't have to pull out the big guns right now and go to the Supreme Court Gredienance Committee or whatever, the oversight committee or the Bar Association. Yet just ask where's my retainer? I want a refund. So I'm gonna ask this caller. I mean, this caller was done wrong. Okay, if everything he's telling me is true.

So the court day that it was dismissed was sixteen December, and right at the beginning of January or late late December, I said, yes, I've considered it, and I want nineteen hundred back, and he didn't respond, I will.

Why don't you take the whole three grand back? Why?

Because because because he did something I'm I'm I don't want him to go hungry.

You're a good man, you're you're a good man, and you know what, what? Why the hell does he deserve anything?

Right?

I thought nineteen hundred was reasonable, and he hasn't responded. That's why I'm calling.

You, James.

I want to help you, but I got to ask you. This is the first time in history where I think the consumer deserves more than he's asking for. Please tell me why, Please tell me why you think he deserves to keep anything.

Well, he did show up after the State Patrol called him for the actual trial. The last day he showed up, and I'm not sure if I was super prepared or a combination of him and me and then the judge being able to use his discretion dismissed it. So I'm not sure exactly how much to credit myself to judge or.

What a good guy this guy is.

Well, I thought less than two thousand from my cost was reasonable. So I've spent three thousand a year.

Yeah, but by the way, just just for just for grins here when you when you ask for it, I wouldn't say I want half of the evidentiary cost.

I wouldn't say that.

I would say, I think you know, you might deserve a grand for showing up the one day, but I want two thousand dollars back. Please don't split it up, because I'm going to tell you something. If it goes to a hearing with the with the Bar Association, the Fee Dispute Committee, you are not going to be awarded any part of any kind of cost.

You will not be awarded.

Now I understand that, But so I again would feel happy if he were funded two thousand or three thousands of his feet forget to eight up.

Okay, let's work on this. Let's work on this, and I'm going to ask the sixty four thousand dollars question, when was the last time you talked to him?

I text him last probably a week and a half ago, saying I need to know what you're planning to do, and if you're not planning to do anything, I probably need to reconsider my approach. And he didn't respond to that. Say reconsidering of the approach was first ask him according to what he offered, and he didn't respond. So now my approach, which he still hasn't responded, is to talk to you.

I did call the Now that was not the sixty four thousand dollars question. That was the twenty five thousand dollars question. Here's the sixty four thousand dollars question. Okay, you're ready for it.

Who is he?

His name is Connor Stuartson, Connor Stuartson.

Correct, How did you find him? And is it Stuartson? As an s T E W.

A R T s O n.

Okay? So it is s T s T E W.

Got it A R T s O n.

Okay? Do you find him there?

Yeah? Go ahead, he's uh, it looks like he's working at a at a law firm down in the Springs.

Okay, And I want to help. And he's not going to talk.

To us because he's going to say, you know all of this.

So you're going to text him a message and let him know he can talk to us.

Oh, none in the Springs.

I'd like to correct that.

There he is in the Springs, Denver, Denver, and I is Connor? Is he in the Springs?

He has an office where I initially met him.

Yes, and he says he represents.

Go ahead, he represents first degree murder, sex assault on a child, agrad robbery, felony, murder, d UI misdemeanors, electric share guaranteed.

No, I'm just kidding.

This guy is just what a piece of work? What a frickin piece of work? WHOA He has a one star review?

Did you know that on this one attorney site?

Yes? And I think, honestly, this man, well, I'm guessing that. I mean honestly, I think he's a good lawyer in front of the bench, but as far as logistics and scheduling, I think that's where his problem is.

But I don't know license for eight years. So he's a baby lawyer.

James.

This is Deputy d I just got a couple of really quick questions for you, if i'm may Did you and your lawyer ever actually agree on the amount of a refund?

Well?

He said in a long text that he could get me a full refund, and that was after he didn't show the second time.

Did you keep did you wait?

Did you keep those texts?

Oh?

Yeah?

Oh yeah. He made a five point essay on the apology for not showing up.

Do you know he has a rating on all all of the lawyer all of the lawyer sites of one star.

Well cleared to me that they actually had an agreement, okay for a refund, But let.

Me just stop that right now, because you keep going back to that he offered a refund. They didn't have an agreement because he came back and said I even want less money. It's still totally totally ridiculous that this attorney is not addressing it.

I don't care if they had a contract or an agreement or just a discussion.

The guy has been texting him saying I want my money, I want at least this much money, and he's being ghosted. What difference does it make if they had an agreement.

Here's the difference the lawyer offered him a refund before the final trial where James was found innocent or had a case dismissed. So could it be that the lawyer said before the trial, said hey, man, I'll give you your three grand back and we go our separate ways. And James didn't accept that offer, and the lawyer finally, after the cops called him, came to trial.

Well, it wouldn't matter to me. It wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter.

What I'm saying is you look at the case in its totality, not each in every blow. Look at the tot totality. The guy was a clown. Okay, the guy gave him some service. In fact, I think this guy is being nice James to say I'll take two grand back. You can have a thousand for coming the last day. Now did he do anything? James is the one who gathered the evidence. For God's sakes, this guy came and said I couldn't get the evidence. He was asking the wrong police department.

Go ahead, bo games.

So since this guy has GOHO seeing you not responding to text, go directly to his office and knock on the doors. The lawyers there and do a personal go there personally and ask for the money, but he'd be embarrassed and write yad check. Go there personally and then maybe if that doesn't work.

I think you have to put it.

I think you have to put a I think you have to make a formal ask in writing, and then then you need to go to the UH. You need to go to the Bar Association, the council committee.

You must the opposite.

Of attorney regulation.

No, I just hold on, guys, stop stop giving recommendations right now, we're we're giving him too many. The very first place he goes, the very first place is the Fee Dispute Committee with the Bar Association. He can put in attorney complaints. After that, we want to get his money back. That's it, okay. The other place he's not going to get his money back. They're going to file a complaint and do an investigation and it will take months and months and may not even do an investigation.

CORL that's it.

I'm fully willing to do that. I'm patient enough to do that. But I hope that he gets win. That we discussed this and he considers it not worth the hassle and simply pays two thousand. I'll make a request of two thousand to his office in writing, and if somebody's there, I'll get a time stamp copy of it. So I know that.

And here's what I want to ask, not that I think it matters, but Deputy D had a point I want to address, not anything about agreements beforehand, but after you so called won your case, did he say to you congratulations I knew I could do it, or any indication that he felt proud of himself, because I think that's what you're getting at that he might think.

He might think, now, hey, I did a good job.

Yes.

As we met in the hall when he showed up late, we were talking and then again he offered some of my feedback, and then after it was dismissed, I said thank you, and also he noted that well, something to the effected, I'm good and I haven't lost the case.

Okay, So he was patting himself on the backs as D's got good instincts. So even though he may have said, I'm going to give your money back, blah blah blah, he may have thought, you know what, now it's a whole new ballgame.

It's a whole new ball game. I won.

Well, let me ask you something, just between you and me, I want to ask you something. During that third hearing, that third and five final hearing, when it was dismissed.

Did he put up a good defense?

Was?

Was he? Was he good?

You know, I have to admit that I think he made them all his objections were sustained.

Okay, he won?

Well, yes he did one.

You know, well, to wait, there is a twice's point where he's going though. Just think about it. You just said to the objections. You would have never have known to do that. You might not have won that by yourself. And really, D is the one deputy.

D is the one that brought up the ultimate end result. And I wasn't thinking of that because I don't want to couple it with any previous agreements. But now he might think, Okay, I really screwed up right up until this point, but ultimately I won.

So I did earn the three grand.

No, because in the hall prior to going into the courtroom, he again offered. After he was there to represent me, he again offered to reimburse some of my feet regard.

Now I get it, I get it again.

I do believe in my personal opinion that yeah, he probably in my opinion that you know, he owes you some something in my opinion, but he may think even though I screwed up, I ultimately vindicated myself. And I think de that was the point you were making more so than they had an agreement. I mean, I think that he believes that day was a whole new ball game.

Yeah, I think that.

What I've heard is both of these offers of refund that mister Stewartson had made to the caller occurred before the final trial, and I'm wondering if.

Those offers were contention on if they were.

Contingent on them just going their separate ways.

By the way, when he.

Did I'll give your money back and you can get another attorney, did he say something like that.

On the first text when he made a five point essay with his apologies and offered a full refund, he offered a refund. And then when he didn't show up to the actual trial, and I waited for him in the hall and showed him what I had from the State Patrol. He again there prior to the judge, offered some of my feedback.

You know, I'd like to know he I'd like to know what Bradley thinks, just simply not not on you know, guilt or innocence or anything like that, but you know, based upon everything you heard. You're an attorney, what do you think?

Okay, I want to take I got to take a break, Dragon said, So we'll come back to that, and then I'm going to take Keaton, who has an issue with an orthodontics place that used to advertise with us, and we'll talk about that and more coming up on the Troubleshooter Show three ZO three one three talk Frank durand the real estate Man. Remember he does more than just

You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. I like with a little sense, Hi, Tom Martina here tho three seven one three talk seven one three eight two five

Is that who you use?

Keaton? Yes, sir, okay, I'll explain how it works with my kids.

You know what they believe in.

They believe in doing I don't know how they do it, but they do a long process rather than trying to jam all the teeth with these harsh braces, and they do incredible work. And it's a flat monthly FIA month until you're done. And both of my children had wonderful results. So I just want you to know.

That going in, I'm not automatically sicken up for them. I'm just telling you my experience.

So, Keaton, what happened with you?

So we actually use them too because you had such great luck, and so we use them for our oldest child and had really great, amazing results. And so we ended up referring to some of our good friends to them, and they've been doing the same exact process and haven't really hurt anything. And so they showed up to their doctor's appointment today and the building is shut down, and they said, there's nothing in the office. What and so no,

But they well that that's automated. I'm sure, I'm sure they're I'm sure they're not meant to. You know, he would never cheat anyone, but I'm concerned about him.

Mm hmmm.

Now he was getting he was getting up there in age.

I mean, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that as a bad thing because I think he was a little older than me.

And uh, I know he.

Had a few you know, it's it's just a few health issues here and there. God, I hope everything's Did they answer their phones?

No?

So I actually tried calling myself as well today and I wasn't able to get hold of either one of the offices. It just want one just continued to ring through their lo entry and then the Love and Office actually have an answry machine and it said that it would get back to you.

Mark. Do we have Did Mark step away? Did he come back? Now, I'm here, I'm wondering if we say, do we have in our go ahead? Sir?

Okay, Well, first of all, can I interject here and just put this into a real perspective. You ready, they're in chapter eleven. They're in bankruptcy. It's been filed, so it is what it is right now?

How do you know that? Mark? How do you know that? Because I'm reading it? Okay, where'd you find it?

He told the employees that, well, okay, just google neo orthodonics bankruptcy.

Okay, man, Well good, I'm at least we're getting you final.

Well, he filed for chapter Listen, he filed for chapter eleven, which is a business restructure. My guess is he had a lot of debt that he ow personally too. Maybe uh, you know, guarantees converted to chapter seven. Then it converted to seven, and he told employees that he couldn't pay them because he was bankrupt. Okay, Now the problem is they can't be taking money each month.

That's a little insane. No, no, of course not.

And I'm sure, first of all, the trustee won't allow that to happen, and it'd be actually filed, so that's not going to be difficult, and and doctor Lawson wouldn't do it intentionally. That is really here, here's you know what your credit card company should be able to get that back for you.

But you know, other than that, there's nothing you're going to do. When he's under Chapter eleven or Chapter seven, the trustee is going to reach out to you with options.

But if he can't pay his employees.

I'll tell you right now, those employees in the IRS and secure debt, there's all kinds of things that are going to come way before you.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well, she admitted that I know another individual outside of outside I guess waiting for their appointment too, or showing up for their appointment, and that that gal had explained to her that they had already paid twelve thousand dollars in advance.

Is that so?

Yeah? And again that'll be part of the hold on, that'll be part of the that'll be part of the restructuring. But unfortunately, unfortunately, it could end up that people are going to lose money. Now, Mark, how long ago did did we? I mean, we didn't part ways for anything like that. Now, it was pre it was pre COVID. If I had to guess because of the nature way way before that, way before that.

Well, the reason I bring that up I think, I think, what not just the nail in the coffin. I think the hole was dug, the coffin was built, and the nail was put in it because of COVID.

But man system.

You know what's really weird is he kind of developed this system. And I wish somebody would it's worth something, you know what I'm saying. I just I would hate to see the technology just go out the window.

But to go back to the caller though, if there was, like if there's any fraud, that's different. I don't see that happening because I knew this doctor. But there's going to be so many people in line. Really, the secure debtors are going to be number one. The irs is going to be number two if he owes either payroll taxes, which he probably does, and you're just so far down the line. It's crazy, and I know people hate to hear that. But now this guy didn't lose anything. His

I think there's their monthly bill. I think it was like one hundred and fifty or something like that.

It wasn't really what they better do. They better shut that down. Now.

Listen, here's the problem. If they originated it on his website, not going to be able to shut it down, and it might be doing it automatically. You got they got to take action to shut it down.

I would I would reach out to I'd figure out who the trustee is and have that person reach out and go, hey, you know you're the trustee on this account.

This guy's still taking money from me.

Okay, yeah, yeah, you know what, I'd like to get Mike wink On just to ask him in general about stuff like that.

You know what, he can pull up Mike can actually pull up the file and read it too.

That'd be nice. So, Kachina, let's get Mike wink On. Keaton.

You can hang out and listen, or you can hang up and listen. We'll talk about it in general. But Keaton, as I understand it, your case was was gone, was done right, you're you're all your daughter, I know it.

It's and they were thinking about pulling four or five pep to make room, and so this was such a much better idea and it worked, and it works fantastic, and.

You liked that.

So my daughter never My daughter never spent a day embraces, and my son had to have some braces, but way less because they.

Do that system of mouth things.

Man, It's just it's like I said, I would hate to see this technology die if the business model, you know, if it was just for the business part of it.

Yeah.

Anyway, gosh, I'm sorry to hear that. So we're gonna get I want to get Mike wink On in general to talk about this. Three oh three seven one three talks seven one three A two five five. Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content. Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison, call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven seven

Miss new Lighting. We really trust, I mean, I think to be trained to lighting. He's easy.

Three oh three Martino don't forget that number works on and off the air.

Am I on the air or off? Yes, sir, maybe I'm not on the air anymore. Hello, definitely on the air.

Sh anyhow?

Three oh three seven one three eight two s here. I am sorry. It was my fault. I'm sorry, man, I had my earpiece off. I was blaming Dragon this whole time.

Tom, totally, you can d You can blame me and call me any names you want.

I still think it was dragonway no matter what you say.

Mike Wink is with us. Hey, Mike, this is always.

Unfortunate when a bankruptcy happens with a business and we have a chapter. We have a chapter eleven. Can you explain and then it turns seven. Explain what an eleven is with a business and is it available only to businesses? This is Mike Wink who is a bankruptcy attorney and expert.

Go ahead, Mike, Yeah, Tom.

Chapter eleven is essentially what's fined as a reorganization and it is not only available.

To businesses, but it is available to businesses and people who the majority of their debt is business debt, and it basically can enable the business or the individual to restructure debt to be repaid under different terms that may be more favorable to the debtor.

And do they end up usually paying one hundred percent on the dollar or are they relieved of any.

They're usually relieved right that.

Essentially, creditors get classified based on their rights, so you have like secured creditors and sometimes even shareholders get get involved and then unsecured creditors and so typically the unsecured creditors are taking less than is owed or maybe getting nothing, depending on the facts and circumstances.

So do business you know, I actually don't know this and I should do. Businesses they usually don't come out of it. Is that true or not true? Or is it a last ditch effort or do people ever? Do businesses ever come out of it and do well?

Absolutely, businesses do.

And there's some high profile cases of you know, big businesses like United that have come out of bankruptcy in very good shape.

But it is a much higher.

Risk bankruptcy than any type of consumer bankruptcy.

And one of the big.

Risks is that a lot of times the business has a very rosy view of the future and a payment plan, a reorganization plan gets set up based upon.

That rosy view, and so we're going to pay these secured creditors and this and that, and then they can't meet those payments and the case either gets dismithed or it maybe it sounds like in this case converted to chapters help.

Yeah, that's what I read about neo orthodontics. By the way, doctor Lawson, what a great technology. I can't speak to his business, you know, but my kids went through it.

I know numerous people that went through it.

Anyway, when it's converted to a seven, what does that usually signal.

Well, it's it's usually not a good thing for the debtor because typically in those situations there's assets that the creditors would be entitled to liquidate. The fundamental press of a chapter eleven is, hey, everybody, you're going to do better if you let us have the keep these assets, make money and repay you over time, say five years, then you would be if you came in and took everything right. In other words, some is work.

Who makes the choice to convert? Who makes the choice to.

Convert the Typically it's it's creditors, they're not on board with the plan.

It could it could.

I think it also could come from the trustee of the court, depending on if the plan is being at the plant at the terms of the plan aren't being met by the debtor and.

Tom the plan comes down to To get the initial plan through, it basically comes down to a vote of the.

Creditors correct correct. Typically the votes are classified by the by the classes of.

The Mike, Mike, I can think, I can't think of many assets. This is not a regular dental office. I mean, this is their system is so sparse. In fact, how it works, it's a wonderful system, But I can't think you know of a lot of assets that would be there, you know, I mean offices, And they would rather.

Dismiss the case.

But conversion is driven by someone's perception. Some creditors trust the court's perception that the assets are worth more than the plan, and they'd rather just huh.

And could part of that asset?

Here's what I want to know, his technology, which I believe he developed. Could that be in itself intellectual property worth something to a bankruptcy court.

Absolutely it could, you know, bankruptcy court bankruptcy trustees are not the best liquidating things like that, and so even if it has value, it can be difficult to sell. But you know, if it's that good, absolutely it could be an asset.

Doesn't that mean though he would have to have a patent on it? I mean just because you're good at you know, I.

Really no mark to the extent. Yeah, I don't know the extent of his technology. I know, you know he borrowed here, borrowed there, But I think he really developed this new early orthodontics. Ah, it's such a shame. And Mike, if you can hang on, I have a few more questions. If so, because people that run up against this. I just want to talk about priorities. And then Laurie, we can take you too. I'm Tom Martine. Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing dot com. You

Monthly fee from your account.

And I'm sure this wasn't done intentionally, But after the filing and they closed, some people are still getting tapped. Will the trustee get I mean, how do how would they work? First those of media payments do they go into the hopper and they have to wait for everyone? Now?

Well, so secure creditors are basically first in priority, so they have a lean.

Those assets are going with secure creditors.

But even if money was just taken out, in other words, if my ach payment for service was just taken out, is that different or is that still going to the big.

Hopper you talk about taken out prior to filing bankruptcy or after no.

After they closed the payment was just taken out after.

I see if it reaches a threshold.

Of seventy five hundred I think, and then in the ninety days before filing bank.

Payment, in which case the trustee can recover it.

Now there's others okay involved with prep. Hey, Mike, try to stay on with us. Okay, I'm so alry, Michael.

We'll call you back. And for blasting that music, that was really a good touch. We got more coming up on the Troubleshooter Shows. Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing dot com.

You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance. Pay too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

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News.

So you don't have to.

Run as fast as we can. Shooter's gonna help.

Come man, this is.

The Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martino, Hi.

Tom Martino.

Here Welcome to the show, solving problems, answering questions, taking complainants. Let's go to the funds. It's been a very busy day and we love that. We love answering questions and taking care of problems for people.

One and all.

We have our expert on Mike Wink because something happened recently. Neo, a new early orthodontics which is Neo ne EO I guess, filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy and then chapter seven and they used to advertise with us, and so people called us. My children also went through the program, which is excellent technology.

You know.

He would charge a flat monthly fee and then they did a system of mouth things that would change teeth and alter them dramatically without heavy bracing. Sometimes you needed embrace us here and there, but it was just it was drama. Add and my one daughter here and my only daughter, Delci, went through never had a day embraces and her teeth went perfectly. My son, on the other hand, had some bracing, but way less than normal.

It's just a good system.

But hey, there was a bankruptcy then now it's turned to a chapter seven, which means liquidation.

Some of these.

Accounts were tapped on their monthly payment after the filing and after they closed. And I asked, Mike, if so, if you pay a payment to someone right after they filed and right after they closed, and they either inadvertently or intentionally pulled payments from you, Mike, do those payments get put into the bankruptcy estate and.

Distributed like to secure creditors.

First and all of that, or would those recent payments be sent back to the people immediately.

It depends on how the Chapter eleven was structured. So typically when an eleven is filed, there's a bunch of what they call first they motions that are filed to give the debtor, to give whoever runs the business permission

So what about a pay What about a consumer who paid for services? They're never going to get all So they're a creditor, right, So that's different.

And so they're paying the business as opposed to the business paying someone else.

Is that you're right? That's right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, So they're a creditor and they're going to be in line to get a distribution if they're enough there. But there's gonna be.

So in other words, even though it just happened, even though it just happened, I have to go through that whole rigamarole.

Now I can't simply get it back.

Correct, correct, you have to go home?

Ok? Absolutely?

Yeah?

And what is the priority in a bankruptcy?

Well, so, for example, a common one for business is that much about what the dominics but would be like sales taxes.

My sales taxes are going to get paid before others.

And then certain employees up to a certain amount of payroll are also going to get paid before, say the customer is going to get their money back, okay.

And taxes they're right up there, right, yes.

Payroll sales taxes, payroll taxes, definitely.

Okay. Is there is no winner here ever? Right? I mean it's unfortunately the.

Way it sounds like it's failed. Yeah, it's it's not. It's usually that's not a good situation. Yeah, yeah, okay. Why well, as a bankruptcy attorney, you really want to bet the viability of the business before you, you know, push it into an eleven, because there's a lot of risks there, a lot of risk of a train wreck.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's probably why I went to a seven.

Correct And okay, all right, well, thank you very much, Mike. There's not much more. Did you look up this particular case?

I have not, no, but you just gave me the names.

Okay, yeah, but it.

Is it is public record if people want to look it up, right, correct?

Correct?

How do they look up a bankruptcy case?

You know, as a as a layperson, I'm not sure I think you could call the bankruptcy court and order the documents. I don't think you get access to online, which I have as an attorney, So I suppose another thing you do would be to call us and we can.

Look it up for you.

I have recent experience with that.

I had to look somebody up who had filed bankruptcy at the Federal Court at Denver, and I did it two ways. First of all, you can just show up there in person and they have a little computer room and you can look up the case and make prints and make printouts, and they charge your ten cents a page.

Okay, and they help you look it up.

Yeah, they show you how to do it, and then you use one of the terminals and then you can print whatever documents.

But every filing is in there.

It's it's the BASER system, and every filing is in there, and you hit print and then the ladies sell you your printouts for ten cents a page.

And that's thank you. Mike Wink Law Firm dot com.

For Mike, it's seven to zero five to two three zero six two zero. That's seven two zero five two three zero six two zero Wink Law Firm dot Com. Hey, Mike, has there been an uptick in bankruptcies over the past year?

Yeah, definitely, definitely, we're seeing more. Yes, Yeah, there has been. I think COVID created a kind of delayed, delayed reaction.

I think, you know, all the stimulus sort of put off days.

Of reckoning which are coming do now. So we're seeing a lot of small business failures similar to what we're talking about here.

That's driving a lot a lot of people are getting sued more foreclosure activity all across the board.

I think we're seeing our business tick up.

Okay. And you think it all started with COVID and then grew from there.

I think so. I mean, I think that you know, it just created a lot of hardship that was put off because of stimul lissen things. Yeah, that's not a criticism of just the reality of it.

And yeah, no, I get it, I get it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so now your business went through a hard time and you borrowed money to get through it, but you're not necessarily a position to pay that pour of money that you probably couldn't have paid before. You know, all I did was get you through. It's not like it helped you grow your business or something.

Thank you very much, Mike. I We'll see you around, man. We'll call you again when we need some help. Thank you very much.

All right, Laurie, what's going on? Laurie?

Yes, yes, what's happening?

Hello?

Yes, Lourie, Hi, Hi, thank you Tom. Last Thursday I had made an appointment at Groove Forward to have my car looked at because my engine sail light had come on. I've made an appointment for one o'clock on Wednesday. Seeing eight brought my car. They're in a timely manner. They took the keys, they took the car. They didn't give me anything to sign. They didn't give me anything for receipt of my car, which I thought was peculiar. I said,

What kind of a car do you have? What kind of a car do you have?

Twenty eighteen board escape?

Okay, got it? Keep going, yeah, okay, sure.

And so on a Thursday call to just check in, and then I got a text message that said this is how we prefer you deal with us. So I responded, I did call in, but then I got a text message and said that this is the preferred method of contact. So Monday, no, we don't have anything.

Tuesday we have a right listen wait wait, wait, wait wait, I don't want to go through every day.

Can you just bring us up today today?

Okay?

So today is the first day I've done anything. So it's a ninth day. They've had the car for three or five days, is what I was told. Ninth day, got it?

Okay?

I follow their link and it tells me thirteen items our problem.

Okay.

So then I say okay, and I'm looking at this link, and then he calls while I'm reviewing this document that they had sent me by a text, and then they followed up by sending the exact same document via email. And I said, okay, so let's get down the list in order. And he said, well, that's not the order I have. I said, well, this is a documentary. Your a fen with me.

I mean, it's.

Okay, where does it stand right now?

Fifty seventy dollars and and yeah, it was the the check engine Life.

Now did they already do the work? Did they already do the work?

No?

No, they did not.

And they're recommending hold on, hold on, They're recommending eight thousand dollars in work.

Yes, they have thirteen items that they say need to be worked on, none of which that I can tell are the check engine life. Because they said the Bread and Check Engine Life came on.

It is because they're.

Okay, rodent, how many items does eight grand represent thirteen items? Thirteen? Okay? Now what are those items right.

Front?

Break?

Breake flush. I don't have it in front of me. I'm trying to give it in front of me so I can read it to you.

I can you get.

It in front of you.

I'll come right back to you. It's important. Get it in front of you. Three h three seven one three talks seven one three eight two five five. Let's get Kevin Caulkin on if we can for this three oh three seven to one three A two five five. As I said, we have more coming up on the Troubleshooter Show. Dan McKenzie can help you with a will within a state, with a state planning, or anything in between.

He's creative, he's.

Very very hands on, and he's very very local and personal and has a small firm to really super serve his clients. McKenzie Law. That's Dan McKenzie. Just a great guy. If you're looking for an estate plan, give him a call. Eight three three co plans eight three three co plans Go with a sure thing. Denver's best roofer excel Roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content.

So they came up.

They've had it nineties, yeah, ninetays and I today is the first day.

Tell us, tell us very slowly, tell us the thirteen items.

Okay, they have break job replace jobs, wrong rotors installed on vehicles, too small, and pads overlap rotors nine hundred twenty five dollars in eighty one cents, keep going, break flush okay, okay, break flush one.

Motor okay, go past the brakes.

Now, let's just suffice it to say breaks keep going.

Oh okay, okay, motor mount front wrong mounts warm leaking. Four h five seventy seven battery replacement.

Okay, keep going one.

Sixty battery sixty six oil press it sending unit replacements seven ninety five EF.

Five Wait wait, wait, what is that oil sender? Oil pressure? Got it? Okay?

Sending unit replacement? If I cleaned five spark plug replacement? If they don't tell me how many spark plugs they just said that three seventy eight seventy one kept going service stuck?

How How how many miles on this car?

Ninety six thousand miles? And it's been certain.

And if you had regular maintenance done to it?

Yes, that's correct, And I have all the maintenance records.

You've had regular maintenance? I grew four done.

No no, no, no, it was done through a different efforts, through different different entities.

How how often do you go in for service? How often do you go in for service.

Before the the number or the date, by the time of the number, or the date, number of miles driven, or the date to have the next oil.

Change, or no, I got it, I got it. No, I get it, I get it.

Okay, So okay, because all of this, you know, I don't even know what they mean, wrong breaks, but it could be.

And then they said, yeah, wrong breaks. I have no idea what that is, and huh, yeah I know. And then they said.

Breaks motor mount, battery, oil pressure center. By the way, I believe you want to know what caused the engine light?

Keep going?

So what I'm hearing now is breaks breaks, motormount battery, oil pressure center, spark plugs, transmission flush, what else?

They're not?

Housing replacements, possible coolant link. And then there's a It doesn't say what it is. It just has the part number. It says lower shield damage that's thirty two. Then they also have what was that?

What was that for?

That?

A lower lower shield.

Lower damp the shield damage, But it just has a part number. It doesn't say what what?

Yeah, okay, what else? Keep going? Keep going?

Thermost housing replacement possible?

Yeah I got that six Yeah, got it?

Cool?

Okay? The check engine light default they think it's the auxilary. This is what the bulb of the light is. Auxilary coolant pump intermittent sticking. Four hundred and eighty nine dollars and ninety sets. They say that is part of the light coming on and all ambient air temperature, air charge tool or sensor wiring has roady damage.

That.

Okay, well sixty.

Now here's what I want you to do, is your car? Is your car drivable?

Absolutely?

Okay?

Now are they going to charge you if you want to just pick it up and say I don't want any.

Of it done?

Yes, they want to charge me. Again, what are they going to charge?

What are they going to charge? What are they going to charge?

Twenty ninety five just to get my key in my car? Also put a mechanic's plain.

Wait a minute, So they want to charge you two hundred and twenty Please let me ask the question.

I got to get this out.

How much if you want to pick it up today?

Yes, two hundred and twenty nine dollars and ninety five cents. And the cost of that they're putting for a diagnostic, primary diagnostic, which I've been asking ever since the beginning.

Okay, that Okay, hold on, that's not unreasonable. Listen, I want you to take if you pay for that, I want you to pay for it, and I want you to get the list, and I want you to go to Shardan Auto.

I want you to go to Shardan Auto Tech.

Okay, I'm telling you I would not get it done there.

I would absolutely.

I'm not telling I'm not telling you you don't need it, but you need to get You need to get these items looked at because if in fact there, you know, I want him to verify what you really need and what you don't need, and then and then you decide what to do.

Sure, we won't for that, and he won't even charge you for that. But Lorie, yeah, where are you located?

Generally that's the wrong, but I will come.

Okay, okay, it's it's it's but you still need to go there no matter what, because look, you just need to go there.

And this is honest and good assessment.

And then we'll report. And it's it's on on Wadsworth. It's on Collfax, west of Wadsworth. You can get the exact address when you call them. Three oh three four five five seventy two forty two three o three four seventy forty two. Kachina, make sure she gets that off the air. Kevin, thank you very much, appreciate that.

We we we really.

We really need to do that, okay, So Kevin, I appreciate us. Kevin Calkin three oh three. And remember they're good, honest people. They can even handle the road and damage the electrical damage three oh three, four five five seventy two forty two. Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content. Time for an insurance check up free,

Ernie? What can we do?

Tom? You remember you called me? You're on your way, you say you don't call it a dude. What's your name?

Rock?

Yes, American Restoration.

I talked to him at detail and I thought Mark could handled this with you guys. Let me explain this in a nutshell. Let me just explain it real quick. You had a water loss at your home.

Is that right?

Yes, he said I have. He went in and he'd taken.

All the.

Ernie, you had a water loss at your home. What happened?

Well, what happened? Is he done a demolation and it's still there?

I know, Ernie, I'm asking what happened? What? Okay?

Ernie, Please, this is very complicated and we did look into it.

Okay, you had a water loss.

Is that what first caused you to call American Restoration?

Well, I had some damage to my roof. I don't know if water is.

Okay?

You got paid from insurance for a certain amount of water loss.

Is that right?

Oh that's what the complication is.

Oh yes, and they did.

Wait a minute, they did absolutely everything you asked them to do, but they did not finish the job because you ran out of insurance money.

Mark, can you continue this?

Well, I'm pretty sure that's where it's at. But Ernie, I haven't really talked to you about it. I talked to Rock about it. I mean, honestly, if you had to sum it up in a sentence, what's going on?

Well?

Going on?

He came in and he uh, he looked at the damage and he said it was a call about water and mold and he's tear down all.

The Did he get in touch with your insurance.

Right?

And then did he do the work? Did he clean everything up?

No?

So what didn't he do?

Well? He got all the of the God man, I'm so sorry, Mark, I'm so excited, and this thing is going on.

But Ernie, Ernie, here, here's my understanding of it. Let me just put this out there. Then maybe this will be a good starting point for you. My understanding is, and I don't know the numbers, but let's pretend your insurance claim was ten thousand dollars, a total made up number.

Rock came in and.

Did work up to the point of what he was going to get paid for at ten thousand dollars, some of the work that was included in that amount. Instead of doing that work, he did other work for you that at the insurance company was not going to pay for. Is that correct or incorrect.

I think correct.

Okay, here's what I tom. This is going to be just too hard to do on the air. What I would really like to do is have like Dmitri or Deputy Bou or deputy Doc to call up and it's going to take about an hour long conversation with him knowing you're out.

I think Dmitri.

I think Dmitri or actually Bo would be perfect for the Actually Bo, do you want to do it?

Yes, I'm happy to give Ernie a call and get to the bottom of this and get it straightened out.

Now here is let me explain what I think is going on. Ernie is basically saying that American Restoration got paid in full and did not complete the If I had to summarize it is that it Ernie, they got paid in full and did not complete the job.

Is that right?

That's the way I look at it.

Right, Well, well, hold on, no, there's a big important part there though. I want to understand, since we're on the air right now, did they literally get paid in full or are you guys withholding some payment.

We are holding the check on it.

That's what I'm saying. This seems so convoluted.

Okay, I get it, Mark, Mark, let me handle right this real quick, Ernie.

How much money are you withholding?

The check is for seventeen thousand dollars?

Okay, you're withholding seventeen Okay, hold on, here's what I need to know.

How much have they been paid so far?

Nothing?

So American Restoration has not been paid a dime.

No, not by me.

No, how about your insurance? Did your insurance pay them directly?

No? They they sent a check. They have to be signed by.

Me and the Okay, okay.

Then my next question, why do you feel, Ernie? They don't they they haven't earned a dime. Why do you feel that.

I don't feel that. I don't feel it.

Then why haven't you paid? Why haven't they been?

Ernie?

Really?

I need you to listen truly answer my question. Why haven't you paid them anything?

Because there's no partial payment thing. I can do what they sent.

Okay, So here's what I want to know, Ernie. Here, Ernie, you got paid seventeen thousand from your insurance?

Is that correct?

Yeah?

And you're not okay, that's a yes or no. Yes.

Now you're not paying American Restoration because you believe they did not do seventeen thousand dollars worth of work.

Right, Tom, here's what you got to understand. I am legally blind. I can't see my daughter as she has to do sign my checks. You know, she a power attorney.

Ernie Ernie, listen, I understand, sir. I love you, You've been listening to me for years. But I need to get this out. You have not paid them seventeen thousand because you believe they have not yet earned the entire seventeen thousand.

Is that right?

That's right?

Okay.

Now here's what I want to know, by your estimation, only your estimation, no nothing else but your opinion. How much have they earned so far?

Probably a third of that?

M hmm. What have they done so far?

They came in and my basement has uh it's finished with partly finished it, it had it.

I want to know what they did, Ernie, Ernie, Ernie. I'm going to keep you on track. I need to know what did they do so far?

They they brought a crew in and they took out all the uh, they script the whole basement, most of it down and hauled out and they called it the demolition part.

Okay, okay, then what then?

What and then they, uh, they said they couldn't complete it because they needed to. I don't know if they were gonna ask the insurance for more money, but they had said the electrical part need to be done and they couldn't. Uh, they had to get What I understood was that they had to get, uh get permission from the insurance company to pay the additional The electrical company says that, okay, they needed they can't complete the job until the electrics electrician electricianal part is done.

Okay, And what about that? Is that true?

Right? I don't know. I don't know how. Like I said, I think we got.

Tomorrow, Thomas, Now hold on, hold on.

So they said they could not complete it because it needed additional electrical work and probably more money, right right, good, Okay, hold on.

So now hold on.

So you're withholding the seventeen thousand because you do not believe the you're withholding the seventeen thousand because you do not believe they've done seventeen thousand dollars worth of work. In your estimation, they've done about fifty five hundred dollars in work.

That's just a conversational piece I liked. I don't know how much of it?

Okay, good, We're going to have that conversation.

You've told us a lot. I appreciated, Ernie. I understand your concern. Three oh three seven one three talks seven one three eight two five five bo. I want you to contact American Restoration. I know Rock was quite frustrated and he was trying to work with Mark. We need to get details, okay, and then we need to spell it out here. I don't think, I do not think that American Restoration will purpose cheat anyone.

I don't know what's going on. I do know this.

I do know that Ernie does not understand either, and I think we would love to talk to his daughter.

That would be wonderful.

I may even go out to the job and look at it.

Yes, thank you so much.

Thanking Ernie.

Hang in there, hang in there and we'll talk about it. We got more coming up. Go with a sure thing Denver's Best rufer excel roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content than time for an insurance checkup free no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance. Pay too much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies. Find out now three o three seven to seven to one help.