Vega C. : Queer Media Analysis, Severance Fanfic, & Trans Liberation Through Storytelling

Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline, and today I'm joined with Kevin. Hello, Kevin, also known as Sky Spectrum. Welcome. Hello wonderful people out there. It's good to have you. Thank you for being here and joining us all the way back from Season 2. It's Fox. Can't welcome back. Hi, thank you. It's really nice to be here.

Thank you for being here. And today joining us, our very special guest, it's Vega, also known as gender fluid, a cap solid on TikTok. Hello and welcome. Thank you for being here. Hi, thank you. So before we get started, I'm going to a little bit about Vega. So Vega, also known as gender fluid, a cap solid on TikTok, is a trans family, non binary, gender fluid, digital artist, gamer and film enthusiast.

Their channel features a blend of comedy sketches, personal vlogs and sharp transcendered media analysis. Whether they're deep diving Hawk classic or joyfully unpacking queer representation, Vega always brings curiosity lit in a vibrance vibrant lens of lived experience. Most recently, they've been exploring a trans character in the world of Severance to a fanfic miniseries that blends identity, world building, and storytelling with heart. Vega, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. Welcome to the trans narrative podcast. I am Fox can't Co hosting today with Carolyn Penny and Kevin Warner. We're interviewing Vega, who is a trans creator on TikTok and we're talking about their background and their fanfic mini series about trans identity in the world of severance. So I'm just going to kick it off with going right back to the beginning. Where did you grow up and what was your early life like? Vega.

Yeah, I grew up in Phoenix, AZ and I'm a 90s kid, so early life was very 90s in that way. Wasn't fully like into my queer identity during that time period. It's a rough time in a way to be queer in the 90s and young, but I was pretty creative kid, fairly extroverted. I was always the class clown, I think. And I feel like that energy has been rediscovered through my

like TikTok videos. I've really enjoyed that aspect of TikTok and getting to sort of like rediscover that slice of my identity outside of having to mask or be in a closet during the 6th grade, for example. Yeah. In your early childhood, like from teachers that were like, you know. Oh, I. Was in Arizona like, you know, did they encourage you or they were like. I mean, I was deeply, deeply in the closet. I did not know there was an

eggshell for so much of my life. But when I like for some people, you know, they've always known they were trans. I didn't specifically know that I was queer. I just knew that like, oh, I liked girls, so I must be straight and I'm not a girl, I think, so I must be a boy. And that's basically like the template that I kind of fit in my teachers. We're all pretty great in fostering creativity and I was lucky that I never experience sort of a toxicity that might have kept me in the closet.

And well, that's not true. I mean, you know, the F word was big in the 90s to be used at all times and calling everything gay that was bad was in in style. So that was mostly my experience in like grade school and stuff and and even throughout high school didn't feel fully comfortable to begin exploring my queerness till, you know, college and well after. That that's a familiar feeling also, I think. Are we all 90s kids here? Yeah.

I think so. I mean, I was, you know, I was born in the 80s, but I, I was still a 90s kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was, I was 85, right. So like I was starting elementary school in 1990 and that, that whole experience that, that even like I'm, I grew up in Vancouver, Canada, but listening to people talk about their experience in the 90s in the US is so similar. Yeah, I'm 88, so yeah. Yeah. We're all so Caroline's a little younger.

So at what point did you start to have the storytelling and media analysis become part of your life? Was that something that happened early? Gosh, it wasn't really until I had kind of a wake up call about who I was as a person around like 20/12/2013 and began to do a lot of unpacking and unpacking that toxicity that I was sort of steeped in, like not fully embracing my masculinity in any

like way that I felt was my own. And so it was only when I began to sort of look inward that I found a lot of joy in media critique in that way. And I think that that kind of naturally like there were directly correlative in that way that like the more I looked inward, the more I found, you know, examining media, movies, games, etcetera, with like a finer and finer lens and finding ways that like my identity maps

to that. And I don't think it's a coincidence then, you know, I eventually came out after allowing myself to to appreciate art in new ways. Was that I guess? Was that after college then? Yes, yes. So what did you study out of curiosity? So I went in to be a biomedical engineer at a like, like an engineering school in Cleveland. And that didn't last long because it's very hard. And I was convinced by my peers to enter Compsci. So I'm a computer scientist, Typical trans femme experience,

I know. And yeah, so I got my degree in computer science. I'm not great at it, but I do love the sort of programming and and math aspect of it. I've always liked math. And then following that, I got another degree in game art and animation and pursued a career in the game industry as a digital artist. What? What was that path like in terms of the gaming industry? It's rough. The school I went to was a private for profit school.

I don't want to blast it on here as predatory, but like there are a lot of schools like that and it's difficult to kind of promise entry into such a like cut throat industry. But I was lucky and that I already was fairly artistic, drew all the time as a child, tons of drawings and paintings. And so I already had a sort of a natural knack.

And then, you know, having a degree in computer science before that kind of equipped me well to sort of enter the indie gaming sphere where I've developed a a couple things. Or like what specifically help shape your early understanding of queerness? Or like identity in general? I would have to. So if you chart sort of my journey being in the indie sphere put me in contact with and with a lot of queer developers.

And, you know, I created my Twitter account thinking like, OK, this is going to bolster my career. I'm going to like make so many connections and, and really break into that industry. And the connections I was making were a lot of queer devs. And so having that exposure really started to open my mind seeing non binary folks for the first time on Twitter and being like, what does that even mean?

How can someone even be, you know, non binary and like truly feeling completely like new to this concept, not not knowing that I would understand that to, you know, be how I identify. So really it was it was inadvertently finding the early start of my community. I have to answer your question. So you didn't really have a ton of relationship to queerness kind of before that, getting involved online and and meeting an overt queer community. Correct.

At the time I was married and my wife was, you know, like like many men, my only like access to friends and social circles. I depended on her in that way. And when I started to sort of carve out my own sort of social circle, which was on Twitter, it was it surprisingly was filled with trans people. Google knows before you do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, OK. That's. Super annoying. Yeah, that's, that's really

interesting. I, I, I, my story's a little different because I spent a lot of time running away from that identity a little bit. It's like I grew up in, I grew up in Vancouver and like even my high school had like a group of kind of in the alternative Mayo, there was a group of like openly queer people. One of them asked me out in high school and that was like horrifying.

Not that I was like, not not horrifying in the sense that I'm homophobic, but horrifying in the sense that this is in the middle of school. There are people everywhere. If I, you know, I've been bullied about bullied over this for like my whole life. So if I say yes to this, then, you know, like my life might be over.

Oh my goodness. Being put on the spot in such a public way was really challenging anyways, But I also really can relate to being in a, in an apparently sis, that relationship where you start to try to explore those things and suddenly you're like, oh, that's what this is that that's a hard place to come from. So I really like feel for you because it can I guess that relationship has ended now and you kinda. Yeah, yeah, she's my ex-wife

now, but we're still besties. Like we talk all the time. She's been my like biggest cheerleader from the start. It was her wardrobe that I was able to to try on at her encouragement. She was like excited about all that. It just eventually we discovered that we were kind of incompatible. She she had expressed it like she felt so much. There was a lot. It was a lot of pain and hurt. Of course, ending a 16 year relationship at that point I can imagine. It would be tough, yeah.

Yeah, and we had, we had known each other longer than we hadn't at that point, you know. But at the time, she expressed like, feeling like, I feel like I'm being transphobic by not like, finding you attractive anymore. And I'm like, actually it's very affirming and a tragic way. Like, you don't see me as a man anymore. And this was before I'd even be on hormones. It's just like she it got, she got it.

It clicked to her and you know, we had to kind of resolve things, move forward in a new direction. That's one of the things that I think gets, you know, you mentioned her being like, I don't want to be transphobic. I think that's one of the things that gets really, like lost a bit in these transition narratives where it makes everybody around you reassess their relationship to queerness

when somebody comes out. Because it might be like, I had this conversation with my cousin about a year after I'd started transitioning and she was like, I used to be the only girl in the family and now I'm not. And that, you know, I'm really happy to have you and it's not an issue, but it's changed how my circle of relations works. And you know, if it's, you know, in the case that you're dating, dating a straight woman and they're like, I'm not attracted to you because you're also a

woman and I'm straight. And that's, you know, like that that person's had to go through the similar kind of, I like reframing of their identity and questioning of their identity. She almost felt like she was coming out as straight to me. That's funny. Like I have something to confess that you know. Exactly. I came out as bi before coming out as trans, and I think that like going back to you know what, who or what maybe kind of

inspired my early journey. That would definitely be Oscar Isaac in Star Wars. That was the moment I was like, I'm not straight. I I'm feeling things for this man. He's so handsome back in 2015. And it was welcome, obviously. I mean, she was thrilled. Like, oh, my husband is bi. I like, I've levelled up. And eventually, you know, like, as all things, as all queer journeys do that. That was kind of a central part in me discovering my transness as well.

It's my relationship to gender, right? Like as soon as you begin unpacking your outward like relationship to it, you start to look inward eventually. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I that I think I'm going to jump off the Oscar Isaac thing because yeah, I don't blame you. He's a very pretty man. Have you seen, did you see him in the Robin Hood movie from like the early to It's one of his early roles. He plays Prince John and he's such like, he's terrible, but

also very pretty. I'll look it up for that, the plot. I'll watch it for the plot. And and yes, the plot. And also, sorry I'm getting way off where I wanted to go with this but oh women in armor. Good movie. So to, to go off of that, that like how we come through these realizations through media.

Were there stories or characters that you kind of felt yourself drawn to even even at a young age, before you had the language to describe your sexuality or gender, where you it made you feel things and you didn't know why? Yeah. Big surprise, I was a super fan of The Matrix for the cool action parts and nothing else.

Truly to the point where I for like a year in high school, I was watching The Matrix on Monday, Reloaded on Wednesdays, and Revolutions on Fridays. Like just like after school put it on. It's my comfort movie. Yeah, and I, I suppose looking back at, you know, I've related to the sort of the thing that everybody relates to when they do love the Matrix. It's just a it's a movie about finding yourself. You know, the Oracle points to the sign above her entryway that says know thyself.

My my yearbook quote was Morpheus line. There's a difference between knowing the path and walking it. So like I was clawing at the inside of that egg fell. I just didn't know like at the time, of course. And it's been such like, it's so gratifying and thrilling to to look back on all those things that maybe you didn't know where, where bread crumbs, but being like, Oh yeah, the signs were there. Like the the Matrix sort of been the the biggest influence I suppose, even though I didn't

know it at the time. Yeah, that seems pretty common. I definitely, I was looking at photos of myself from like 2000 and four, 2005 and showing them to my one of my girlfriends and like you, you look like you're an extra from the Matrix. And I'm like, yeah, weird that that is the case. I definitely remember to because rumors about the Wachowski's we're around even then and I remember being like 2005, 2006, 2007 and going, oh, good for them, you know, like happy for

them. Did it really reframe my perception of the movie? No, what what what I eventually went and watched Bound. And if you haven't seen, Bound. Bound is amazing. I have not and I've it's been on my to watch list for so long I I'm ready to. I tied up one of my girlfriends and made her watch it for her birthday. It's. Just a themed viewing. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I was like 10 minutes in and I was like, there was no way this movie was made by two CIS men.

Not a chance. So like, if you were paying enough attention, but yeah, that's, that's OK. Cool. That's a good starting point. Mine was probably the secret world of Alex Mack which is like an early Nick show about this girl who can like they use the the CGI from Terminator two or the T1000 turns into the silver goo thing and then reconstitutes so she could like melt herself into this goo puddle and then like reform herself and like. She'd always like slip under doors, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's this whole like shape shifting kind of tomboy thing was like, could I be that? Yeah. How about you, Kevin? Did you have anything like that? Yeah. I mean, I think I'm a little different in terms because I just look like musicals. And so mine was Peter Pan, the like the original, like Mary Martin version and just like seeing like clearly a woman but play a boy role. And everyone like just like accepted it. And I thought that like, I didn't understand it at the

time. I didn't like, you know, understand the concept of like how it would relate to me going forward. Like looking at it again and I'm like, yeah, that was totally probably the, the, you know, the origin, I would say. OK, Vega, So what drew you to TikTok? What was the thing that got you on the platform and what was the process of finding your voice there? I was quite vehemently opposed to having a TikTok for the longest time at the time my wife had one. And so I was like, I'm going to

enjoy to talk through her. She'll be like whatever she likes, she can show me. But I know that it's going to like wreck my life, like it's going to suck time for me. And it it kind of does. But it wasn't until right after our our separation is when I got an account in that way. And it was it was lovely to build my own for you page then and sort of let like when I got on there, I'm like, OK, algorithm witness me, you know, like I'm like freshly out.

Let's see what you make of this. And it was kind of empowering in a way. It's sort of like, you know, an algorithm is witnessing you. And I was curious about how like my interests and identity had been shaped in just that short amount of time because I had come out in 2021 and we separated in 22. So I'd only really been out of here in that time. I'd only gotten my ears pierced as like a way of of our gender presentation.

And I was trying to close and it wasn't long before, not that I was letting take talk, make decisions for me, but it wasn't long before I was like, OK, I want to get on HRT. Like I'm seeing too many happy faces and like this is exciting. I like I, you know why I resonate with that in the sense that I just had that yearning and one day I was just thinking, I really think I need to take HRT.

And I called Planned Parenthood and they were like, well, we have an opening at 1:00 PM. You want to come in? And I was like, oh, OK. And then I came in and they were like, OK, here's your estrogen. And I was like, oh, wow. That all happened. Like I was not wow. And so there I was. And that's how it. Just was like, you just, you know, you just feel it. When it's time, it's time. Yeah, that was the same for me. It was like, I'm like, you know what, I need a PCP anyway, I

should get on that. And then I did. And then the day that like I met my PCP, I was like, I want to start HRT. And it was basically the same day signed some, you know, form saying like, I know what I'm doing, I know what I feel. And I was thrilled. It was. It was the best. Yeah, I had a pretty similar fairly easy path as well. Went, went to gender clinic here in Vancouver and then they were like, well, you can see a doctor through US.

It'll be 6 months, but we can call like a local primary care and see if we can get you in sooner. And then that was a Thursday and I had an appointment on Monday. And the other doctor was like, yeah, here you go. I didn't, I think I started, I started blockers and I started estrogen like a six weeks later. But I was like, I'm going to start on Halloween. So I have a really great, great day day. I can call my, my HRT anniversary, which has worked out.

It's a really good one. So you how long have you been creating on TikTok? I think since like late 2022, my early stuff is very like floundering, though I don't quite yet have like what I want to talk about how I want to

direct my channel. It's a little cringe, but I wouldn't I would say that like I've really come into my own in the last year in terms of like this is this is the direction I want to go. I want to spark positivity and I don't really want to engage in discourse and drama because there's bigger accounts that do that much better than I do. And I want like, I want to in seeing my for you page sort of really like lock down and become very curated.

I was like, OK, this is something I want to see. I want to see like media analysis come from a like a queer lens. And I hope that I can supply that. Like, you know, there's trans affirmation TikTok and, you know, make up TikTok. And like, there's all these different slices of of queer TikTok that are great and wonderful, but that was really sort of inspiring. The most I think was this is like realizing, oh, this is what I can contribute to this space

and really make it my own. Yeah, I think that's something that I mean two parts to this next bit, but I think that's something that I found as well as a a queer creator is especially a trans creator and you're like this before you start. There's not that many trans people out there. I have to cover everything all the time. And also I'm transitioning in the public eye, which is something that like I did too.

And if you go back to my YouTube channel, there's like 5 or 6 years of like videos where you can just kind of watch that happen. And and while you're trying to discover yourself as an artist and not just that, but navigating social media platform that's, you know, a new Tik Tok's a pretty new form of filmmaking. So yeah, it's takes time and sounds like you had kind of that same journey of being like, what do, What's my focus?

Right when I was watching TikTok through my wife at the time, the app was like the dancing app, the like lip syncing app. And in that time, I've seen a lot of creators sort of come into the like into the spotlight offering a lot more than that. And that was also inspiring. Like I had had sort of, I have like a Google doc of YouTube scripts that I would, you know, I'm thinking like, oh, I'd love to have a YouTube channel and these are the things I talk about.

And it's also daunting in a way because there's almost a certain like production value you have to be if you want to reach a wide enough audience on YouTube. And in the case of TikTok, I was like, I was floored at how accessible the app was. It's just like, oh, the editing is in there. The like the green screen effect is in there, the audio and all

that is, is like out the box. And that was really exciting because that coupled with the sort of like, like there's a, like a, a notion that like, oh, it's a TikTok. It doesn't have to be high budget in a way, like I can get away with kind of some fun low budget editing or whatever. And that makes it a lot easier for me to take the scripts I've written and put them to, to film in a way that in a it's just a lot, a lot less of a barrier, which has been exciting.

So you kind of talked about how media analysis was where you found your focus. Is that what kind of specifically what kind of content feels most meaningful or fun for you to make? Well, those are two very different things. Yeah, I mean, so I've started to really dig into like film analysis through a queer lens, which is something I'd already been doing, you know, in my life

for a year or two. And I I love watching films with friends who haven't seen it already because it gives me the chance to experience it for the first time all over again. And kind of workshopping the thoughts I have about a film and bouncing them off of of people who, you know, for The Who, for them, it's their first time. And since obviously coming out, my queer circle with friends has exploded, and now I have the opportunity to share my favorite things with them and see how

they feel about them. And so sorry. I'm sorry, what was the question? I got a little. Yeah, the the question was what kind of content feels most meaningful. Oh yes. Or fun for you to make. Right. And so I think that that my media critiques, my film critiques something that I'm really starting to to draw a lot of fulfillment out of.

I also get a lot of fulfillment, fulfillment out of sort of the like role play script delivery of like character A talking to character B. And it's sort of like not quite short film, but not quite, I don't know, content, you know, like threading that needle between content and arts on the app, which is always so difficult.

But things like my, you know, my sort of fanfic about a character within the world of Severance is allowing me to explore like sort of a little short film making, kind of scratching that little like, itch. So that project is happening on TikTok. You're kind of doing dialogue between the the indie and the Audi. Is that how it's framed? So I'm like still filming episode 3. I've written out to like episode 8. Filming is difficult because I play like every character in the in the the short.

But currently it's like every odd episode is from the innies point of view and every even episode is from the Audi's point of view bouncing back and sort of like rehashing what happens outside versus what happens inside the office. And the way that those two characters, because they cannot communicate, just like they can't communicate in the show, they can't send each other messages or or anything finding that like they are actually communicating because their

identities are being explored. Like the the character Val Valerie in the first episode of of my like sort of miniseries, she hurt her any understands that she's not who they've assigned her as. Like it's her first day on the job and she's like, no, something's wrong because she kind of has the freedom to be a little bit more. She, she doesn't have the lived life of 30 something years attached to this, this box that she's been put in. This is all new to her. And immediately she's like,

what's with the suit and tie? I don't get it. I, I'm vibing more with my, you know, female Co worker. What's that about? And so the message that she ends up sending to her Audi is simply the realization of who she is. Like that internal like epiphany is what manages to reach her Audi. And then exploring like the Audi, her Audi has actually felt that way as well, but just hasn't had the the courage or the like support network or or, you know, the framework and language to express that.

But when removed from all those like societal impositions, her Annie is able to so freely, right? So it's not so much of a conflict between the two as the the internal experience helping the external experience kind of find themself. Yeah, absolutely.

Late throughout the series, they I'm I'm sort of treating them almost as sisters to each other feeling that they have sort of a like they're they are indeed different people, but they you know, they they share this body and being kind to that body because it is shared knowing like later in the series I have written that you know, something happens to Audi Val that kind of sends her back into the closet a bit and the Annie can feel that

and doesn't know why that is And you know the the 2 are are both locked away from each other, but also communicating sort of almost ethereally in that way and helping each other grow into their identities. I don't know how I'm going to end it, I'll admit, because I can't have them just walked to the workplace. If you've seen severance innies don't leave the office and I. That that elevator, that magic elevator just, yeah, exactly separates everything, yeah.

And I, I don't, I've, I've committed to not like I do not want to explore things the show hasn't in terms of its lore or go story directions that the show like answer questions the show hasn't. That's not what this is about. It's strictly about like, like I'm not going to talk about Cold Harbor. So it's strictly. In the inverse of severance, you know, so it's it's I cannot

name. It yeah, I kind of wanted to to make this feel like, you know, the world of Severance is much bigger than the show that you're watching. There's other people employed at this job and those people could be trans. They're not trying to save the world in in a way necessarily. They're just trying to save themselves. Yeah. And I, I was thinking obviously watch the watch through the first season and the bit of the second season in preparation for this, because I'm a professional.

And some of the things that it kind of brought up for me when thinking about the relationship of transness and severance is how a lot of trans people have to go through almost a similar process to survive in a professional world where you have a work Sona your your work personality that is completely divided from your queer personality out of necessity and the transition between the two and how you're navigating how

you navigate that. So it's interesting to kind of like, and whether or not those two sides are in conflict with

one another. So it's interesting to hear how you're kind of going down the road of like they're both, they both are harboring these same feelings and one is doing it without the kind of like memory of the gendered framework that they've been raised in. And that when you remove that that history, that memory that it changes, it opens up the possibility for that that transformation.

I should also say that like, if you haven't seen the show, really just the first two episodes of the first season is all you you basically need. I don't like I said, I don't build off of like spoilers necessarily. It's just the the premise of innies and outies and like a split experience. Yeah, OK, so can we do light spoilers? Yeah, with the with the Here comes spoilers tag. Yeah, I hear you.

So so like light spoilers for later in the season when they discover in the first season when they discover that there is a technology that lets the innies experience the outer world and, you know, that kind of takes the show in a different direction. They discover who they are, who the Audis are more and have a glimpse of that life. Is that something that you would you're considering bringing in or are you just kind of trying to stick with the basic premise

and. I've considered that, and since we're on the subject of spoilers like some the last Oh no, wait, you're not there yet. OK, never mind, you haven't. No, I haven't finished. Season 2 OK well shoot alright I've. Seen all of season 2 and part of three so. There's a three. Wait, no, nevermind. No, 3's not out yet. Nevermind, sorry, I don't know what. That is spoilers. There's a three, No? Yeah. No, there's and there probably will be like I but. I hope so.

Another another series. Sorry but no I have seen all of season 1 definitely. And so there's, so in Season 1 there is the sort of technology procedure that's that's discussed at like what do they call it reintegration or something where they're kind of combining. There's reintegration, but there's also the overtime contingency right thing. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's. Been renewed for a third season, OK. Good. Yeah, I've I've really thought about playing with either of

those two concepts. It's, it's difficult because I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to go into the direction of a loss of life, which is what would happen if one or the other, you know, identity decides that they're going to take control from here on out. And so I'm, I'm, I'm struggling to come up with an ending, but I, I'm confident that like I'll be able to thread that needle again. Like the show hasn't answered the question of like the these

questions itself. So like again, I don't really want to answer questions the show hasn't answered, but also at the same time like. Right. Like how did this all start? Like there's no origin so far that I can. Yeah, See. Yeah. And, and like the the examples in the show that we have of reintegration or whatever they call it, you know, leads to a kind of a horrible, horrible

position. And, and even if it doesn't, does that mean the, the, and this is what's so interesting, but I have a, a couple of my partners are plural systems and trans. And they have a lot to say about the show for this reason totally. Because like, at what point do you at at what point are these totally separate individuals who share a body at, at what would integration, you know, result in a third person who's distinct from either of them but shares their memories?

Is that destroying 2 lives is leaving them split, but one of them never leaving them severed, but one of them never getting to experience consciousness again? Is that is that actually death? Is that person dying? And I think that there's so many different ways to both interpret that and also like play with that artistically. Absolutely.

I guess to sort of spoil my own Series A little bit, I am leaning toward reintegration as the sort of like direction that we go because it's too easy to map that even on to the talk of, of gender affirmative care. And you know, like, oh, what's the regret rate on, on something like that? Or Are you sure you're ready to take that kind of plunge and coming out of the other side of that kind of scary procedure

like a different person? So yes, it's we're never the same people that we are from day-to-day. But certainly like, you know, any Val's Innie versus Audi and who Val ends up at the end of this are all different people because we, you know, we're always moving forward. Our identity is always like fluidly changing. Oh, that's I was gonna. I was sorry. Go. Ahead Well, no, I just, you know, so like, you know, if you're any like this is interesting because I've never watched severance.

All of these concepts are new to me, but they're really fascinating because you know, these concepts, they, they, they relate to like, you know, like transness is like a severed self waking up. Absolutely. It was too easy to apply that. Like I was like, I have to do this before someone else does it. Yeah. So like, if your ini is the version of of you untouched by like gender expectations, what truth did they carry that your Audi struggled to accept or

speak aloud? And I'm asking you personally. I'm sorry, can you repeat that you started to cut a? Little sorry, yeah, no. So like, you know, if the, if your ini is like the version of you untouched by gender expectations, what what truth did they carry that your Audi struggled to accept or speak aloud for you personally? So I want to because I want to kind of relate it back to your personal transition, like your personal story and how this story like reflects you specifically.

So I feel like, I mean, there's a lot of me in those characters. Of course, that's naturally. And in a way, I think that Valerie is the character that I would have been in a different life. I was very fortunate that, yes, I came out late in life, sort of relatively 202133. And I was very fortunate that my wife was so supportive that the day that I came out was we were on a beach in San Diego with

friends, and I was cold. And my wife had just picked up like this, this crop top sweater from this from a nearby shop with like, a pink, like, Insignia on it. Not that femme at all, truly. But I was like, I'm so cold. Give me it. And I put it on. And I was like, why do I feel so good? I don't know why I feel this good, but boy, do I feel good. Can I keep wearing this for the rest of the day? And she was like, yeah, of course.

And we have some friends who had visited us or who had joined us there. And they were like you, you're really like electric right now. What's that about? I'm like, I don't know. And so my experience to coming out was quite immediate. Like the moment we got back home, I was like, I think I'm trans, but I, I don't know, my relationship to my gender is just completely been like blown open from this one moment. After about 10 years of of introspection of cleaning my attic of of all the other

things. The trans box was at the end at the bottom of that pile and was like, oh, what's this? And so for me, for the sort of the severance sort of fanfic.

This is a character then, who is kind of both experiences of me, like the any being somebody who has not necessarily the support network, but just the the freedom because of the lack of of like societal what positions to just be like, wait a minute, I think I'm I'm not this like I'm not what I've what my Audi came in here as, and that kind of relates to my experience of coming out just being like, you know, wait a minute, I I don't

vibe with this anymore. I suddenly feel free to just just express this and Val's Audi being sort of the 32 years before that of me of possibly having these buried ideas or concepts that just aren't ever, you know, I'm not able to explore. Yeah, that that sounds familiar. And I think like a lot of a lot of, I don't know how much of it is part of the discourse now, but the idea of gender is

performance. And I always felt that I had a really integrated personality at the beginning of transition. And in a lot of ways, I'm the same person, but there's a lot of ways that I'm not. And I think that is something that ties in well to the idea of this like this severed experience where you have like the the first year. Oh, geez, yeah. The first year or so after I came out and started to socially transition, I was working jobs

where I couldn't do that really. So I would come into work, I'd leave, leave home to go to work in like boy mode and then come home and switch back. And that's one of those things that like, you know, watching the show and you're like, OK, well, you become a different person to do your job. And then you take that mask off. And the show is kind of the opposite because of the nature of what it is, the the severed selves becoming kind of like a creation after the fact.

But yeah, I found I found that really striking. And it seems like that seems to be a shared experience a little bit with that, yeah. Yeah, like wearing of masks and the places that we we take them on or put them off. You know, me having come out in 21, that was at the tail end of COVID. So like before the the vaccine has come out, that's why we're at the beach because we're like it's vaccine summer. And so that was a year basically

of, you know, I'm indoors. I, I can wear whatever I want to work any like I don't have to go to work. I'm working from home now. A lot of people wear COVID, COVID trans people and I'm I'm one of them. Yeah, that was really common. Yeah, yeah. It's time to explore at home, and now I'm figuring this out. Yeah. So do you believe? Do you believe these selves are like ever truly separate or held apart by circumstance, language, and fear?

Yeah, I think that like the show kind of the the show Severance itself kind of presents these characters as being quite separated. I don't think we have a lot of examples of much crossover except with maybe Irving for another for other examples. But and so in my series, I'm trying to explore that like there is something about realizing that you're trans that kind of transcends even the magic elevator that like once vowels.

Annie just uses a sharpie on her eyes to kind of express femininity that that awakens something that even elevator can't touch. And it's in, it's in that second episode, that of nesting dolls, what it's called get it like a doll that's in another doll. In the second episode I explored that like Oval feels that change as they leave work that day that they're like, wait a minute, what the heck?

Like she had to scrub the the makeup off of her eyes because you can't transfer messages through the elevator. But that didn't matter. The message was sort of sent intrinsically. I think that the show textually does that with queerness. Not to give out too many spoilers for season 1, but like the the fact that that queerness transcends the the severance procedure is not just subtext. It's a major text in the first season of the show.

So I think, you know, this is this is I think kind of why this leads into this question really nicely. Why do you think fan fiction can be such a powerful space for creator, for trans creators specifically? And just to like lead a little bit more into that? Like, that is clearly not something that the people who made the show were thinking about when they made it. Yes. So queer representation as like on the whole is lacking in general, but especially trans

representation. And the reason why I feel fan fiction is so powerful is that there are all already these narratives that we connect to in whatever ways that were intentional or not from the writers. And it takes so little to kind of nudge those narratives into it, like queer representation or trans representation because the

pieces are there. We're just sort of like putting them together and viewing media through queer lenses in that way is it's empowering because it's giving us access to queer rebbe media despite they're not being if they're like outwardly, like it's like we can claim these things. We can claim these narratives and stories and characters, and we can do so through fan fiction in ways that like that help us, that that teach us. And we're like, go ahead.

So, and then in terms of like from there, other people can look at that and say, wow, I've, I've finally, I feel seen. Yes. Absolutely. The the nature of fan fiction is, is a shared like experience already, right? Yeah. It's like you're saying. And I'm just curious, like what kind of conversations or emotions do you hope to spark from the projects? Like you watch Severance, like someone looking at your content, How do you think that continues on for other people? Yeah.

I mean, I, I hope to. Yeah, I hope to that people see it and find something of themselves in it that even if it's simply just that like, Oh my gosh, I totally see like saw a trans story in Severance and how this person's doing it. Like it's validating even to not be the person who wrote it, but to be the person who finds that they're not alone, right. I mean, that's always the The thing is finding yourself in

others. And so when I'm by presenting like a a framing of what may be a very exciting show to somebody in a way that they can relate to even deeper, then yeah, it's it's all part of that sort of like oral sharing and and like cultivating that really like binds the queer community together. How do you approach media? I think the example in our questions is like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with trans analysis in mind.

And I think that I don't know if this is something you've done and that's what the question is leading from, or like stories that aren't obviously queer or trans. What do you do with that? So Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is my all time favorite film and I have given a PowerPoint on how trans it is 3 Times Now, most recently last week to 4 * 3 times. That was the the third time I meant today. Oh yeah. Oh, well, you're not going to get the whole but I.

Yeah, I want the PowerPoint now. I would love to yes, go ahead and give us the PowerPoint. Oh my gosh, I can't do that now. I'll quick Cliff notes. So crashing Tiger hood and Dragon is first of all, A at its core, it's a film about gender roles. So boom, there it is. Any, any narrative about gender roles is going to inherently ask the question about identity and transness.

It's right there. But in addition to that, you have, and what I talked about in my PowerPoint is like what is often central to queer narratives, because we don't have like the, the wealth of representation we would like to have is the concept of yearning. Any time there's yearning in a in a narrative, even if those characters are not textually queer, it's queer because there is some force, whether it's be societal or some barrier that is keeping them from being

together. And the IT just because it maps so much to queer experience, at least today, who knows about 300 years from now. But because there is the barrier to our identities, to loving the way we want to both outwardly and inwardly, it's ripe for a queer analysis of it. And in the case of Crashing Tiger, Hidden Dragon, you have every single character representing a slice of of identity and like sexuality. Li Mubai, the one of the the protagonists is sort of like a legendary monk.

And he at the beginning of the film, this isn't spoiling anything. He arrives to hand off the sword of Green destiny. He's basically like Neo more or less in this world. He has superpowers. He's a like like key powers like Qi and he can he can wield the sword so effortlessly. He is the master of the sword, which means he's a master of masculinity. The sword being like the the symbol of masculinity itself.

And when he arrives on the scene to give it up, he has transcended like the need for it. He's like, I don't want to do this anymore. I have mastered this and it, it means nothing to me. Like I'm putting like I have transcended gender. I'm putting this aside. Li Mubai is very much a gender. He him, and it's very rewarding to watch the movie in such a way that you examine weaponry and fighting styles as gender

presentations. There's a sequence in the movie where Gen. Yu, our sort of main protagonist is boy moding that she has struck out on her own for the first time. She's stolen the green Destiny sword and she's like, look at me, I have the ultimate symbol of masculinity. I'm so good at this. And she fights off like 30 plus people with all different kinds of weapons, all different genders in that in that

sequence. And so no, there's just so many lovely representations of both queer relationships and their relationship to yearning. You have Li MU Bai and Shu LAN, who's played by Michelle Yeoh. Oh my gosh, my hero. They yearn for one another. They are trans to like in my in my reading, they are both trans, but they are not free to love one another. And so they're because of societal impositions. And so that is a yearning.

And then you have Jen Yu as a character who is so directionless, but she yearns for herself. And the movie's disco is about her discovery of like, what it means to yearn for your own, like for love for you. I cry so hard at the end of that movie. So hard every time. That, that brings up something interesting for me because I went to film school for writing. And so the, the, the hero's journey kind of is hammered.

And I think fundamentally there's an aspect of of yearning of becoming in that style of narrative where you Disney's Hercules and they have the song about that specifically about wanting to discover who you are. I think that maps so see my face move on. OK. Anyways, no, I love it. Yes. And and just, but like how trans characters, visibly trans characters are very rarely put in the position of a protagonist who is undergoing that journey of a hero.

Yeah. I mean, it, I saw the TV glow was a big example of a trans narrative in which the hero's journey is kind of like intentionally rejected because of our like all of us sharing that common relationship to that's that internal conflict of like, you know, setting forth

finding yourself. And so I think that Crouching Tiger, Good Dragon, because it's not a directly Western story, is doing something with gender roles and gender expression because it doesn't kind of map itself like immediately to a hero's journey the way that a lot of maybe Western media does, which kind of which kind of inherently like blocks out a lot of trans stories because, and queer stories because there's so much of our life, like I said, is, is is struggling to take up

that adventure, so to speak. So what can trans storytelling do that mainstream media? Mainstream media often fails to do jumping right off the. Bat excellent, perfect, perfect lead in yes. Thank you.

I'm pretty good. No, it, it's that, it's, it's that like we are able to through trans stories and, and then of course, through trans fan fictions and trans readings of not intentionally trans narratives, we are able to sort of reclaim a lot of narratives that would otherwise not apply to us. It's, it's what those media analysis can do is open up a greater conversation with, with yourself and your relationship to the, to the media you like to

consume. What I I watched Interview with the Vampire for the first time in a long time. After being becoming obsessed with crashing Tiger, hidden dragon and what I love what I love about about media and film is the way that you you start to like yarn together, like thumbtack and yarn and tie these these narratives together as you watch and bounce back and forth between them. My first viewing of Interview with a Vampire was boy, this is sure is a long dry story about a guy who is, you know,

directionless. And then watching Presbyterian dragon becoming hyperfixated on on that queer narrative and coming back to interview and being like, Oh my God, this is so trans. This is also a very trans story. I mean, like Claudia says, like I, I, my heart breaks when Claudia is like, I don't want to eat her.

I want to be her because she's forever frozen as a child, right when she witnesses like a, a bathing naked woman and being able to sort of connect those two pieces because you start building a trans or queer lens of things is so rewarding. I, I feel like I'm going off track, off track a little bit, but just. I think.

That's you're right. That really resonates, you know, because I feel that, you know, because you bring up this idea of like the western, like this year centric way of like looking at gender, which is very much like, I, I feel that that trans people are like, we're, we're a gateway drug to, to finding

yourself. And I think that it just challenges, it challenges the mainstream patriarchy and it kind of begins to dismantle some of these like these, these supremacist ways of, of these systematic control and oppression. Because the idea that like, because you know, we've, we've, we've had guests on the show where we've talked about gender without identity, You know, this idea that like everyone has a gender and everyone should be

free to experience that. And it's, and it's trans people that are the ones that step out and, and, and really speak truth to, to who they are. And, and it feels as if, you know, like cisgender people, they're like, you know, as if they don't have a gender. And it, and it feels because of this, this oppressive system that we're in, that it, that it strangles all of us from thinking because we all should

be free to find ourselves. We should all be able to be fluid in our expression that we shouldn't be, we shouldn't be, you know, this confined to these ideas. And, and I think that's why we see ourselves so ostracized in the media is because we are a threat essentially to the patriarchy and to to these systems of oppression. Because you know, once people get the idea that like, Hey, I don't have to be what that man tells me, you know, it, it starts to break down a lot of things.

So let me ask you, you know, as we begin to wrap up, because we're getting near our end here, you know, why is querying fiction not not just fun, but why is it so unnecessary in this time? And I feel like we've touched on that so much in this episode. But you know, as we begin to wrap up, can you really lay it down on why it is just so necessary in in the work that that you're specifically in, in

Ox and so many others are doing? Yeah, I think that everyone benefits from querying media, right. It's a sort of rising tide lifting all boats kind of situation where with I mean, there is there's man, woman in the non binary spectrum all around and in between that is infinite. And yet within man and woman, there is also Infinity. And I think that like even binary and CIS people stand to to really like benefit in terms of introspection and and understanding their own gender.

You had you mentioned like it feels like for somebody CIS people that it's just they've defaulted into their identity. And I don't want that for them either. I don't want everyone to be trans necessarily. I want everyone to to examine their own gender and take ownership of it. If you were born a man and you're you're still a man, that's great. I want to see what you do with it. Acknowledge the Infinity within man because one representation of man is not your representation of man and

etcetera. And yeah, so like queer queering media is queering the idea of of gender itself and opening that conversation up to anyone and everyone, whether or not they emerge from that conversation as trans or with a better understanding of who they are, which only leads to more compassion and empathy to others, right? I mean, that's what it's all about.

You know, I, I, I really resonate with that and I resonate, you know, Fox here said something a moment ago that, you know, it's, it's like being and water your whole life and not knowing. And that really resonated in the sense that, you know, in 2020, I had heard a story about a fish and this, and this comes from a film that I had seen, but this analogy, and you may have seen it was it's in a Pixar film. But the story goes and says, you know, I, I heard the story about

a fish. And he and he and he swims up to an older fish. And this fish says, he says, I'm trying to find this thing they call the ocean. The ocean says the older fish. Well, that's that's what you're in right now with the younger fish. She says, no, this is water. What I want is the ocean. And it's like coming to realize, you know, within my own self like that. That quote really began a years long endeavor into finding myself.

And it was because of that realization that like I've yearned to, to find the ocean and realizing that it's within my grasp at this time now and that I and that I can just, it's, I can just, I have the, it felt like I had that permission to realize that like, wow, like I'm looking for what I'm in and I have it. So it was so, you know. You have the power all along. Yes, absolutely. It's the Dragon Scroll. So Vega, where can our listeners

find you on TikTok? What is their handle in any other places and things like that? My handle is gender fluid, a cab solid. I've had a lot of commenters be like what does ACAT mean? Is it assigned cop at birth? And I'm like, it's quite the opposite actually, I thought. It was cat is what I assumed. No, I'm actually of the puppy girl variety. But anyway. That's for another episode. Oh, good, I'm coming back. Yeah, you can primarily find me

there. It's my only social but if you've seen me on Instagram, someone has stolen my video but please follow me there instead and TikTok instead. I have for the most part sworn off meta for that reason or for the reasons that you know, one shouldn't swear off meta and TikTok is where I do all my posting. So how can how can people uplift creators like you and and media analysis in general? Oh gosh, you know, everyone's got their sort of Lincoln bio kind of situation.

So find who you like, support them in any means you can via like, I don't know, reposting or whatever. But I think that like developing your own sort of literary muscle and you know, exercising that is how you will organically support creators who who do that and present that. Because if you tell the algorithm that you like hearing thirst trap film talk, which is my last video I posted about, then you're going to be delivered more of this content.

And that's going to be the way that you you naturally fold yourself into this world breakdown, analyze media. You know the curtains are blue for a reason. Don't be afraid to to sort of like find yourself in any narrative that you think is is small or large. It doesn't matter. Every interpretation is important and is special. And when you start to to engage with other creators that are doing the same, that will naturally uplift us all. I.

Think I think for. Well, I was, I was just going to say, you know, Speaking of exercising, you know, and, and, and getting out there and into the fold of, of content creation. If you would like to participate in being a part of this program, please reach out and e-mail us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com. That's trans narrativepodcastgmail.com.

And that's how we continue to uplift and, and, and celebrate gender diversity and, and create this space where we can question, learn and grow together. Fox, what were you going to say? I was going to say, if you are a sys person and you are listening to this and you're wondering how you can help uplift trans creators and media analysis, seek out stories with different experiences. Seek them out. Even if it's, you know, a TikTok

or a YouTube or or something. Go look for stories told by people who have a different life experience than you. Not just not just one that's a sys writer who's writing about a different life experience, but something that's coming from lived, experienced people. Give them your money if you have that available please. Give money to all of us, the handles in the in the description, by the way, for me,

if you'd like. No. So as as we begin to wrap up today, Kevin, any final thoughts, comments or anything you'd like to leave and ask Megan before we go? Yeah, just what do you feel is next? Like a next project. Yeah, I so I'm terrified of AI and the very near future.

And so I've, I've been kind of kicking around an idea of sort of a little like a film noir detective who, you know, teams up with like an AI that they solve silly crimes that either AI has done really stupidly or that kind of bring the idea of that threat into the fore. And of course, there's going to be a healthy heap of gender and trans exploration and such a thing because you've got an AI. Well, that AI surely has to develop understandings of itself.

Let's help the A5, let's help the AI recognize its own gender. And you know what I've done? Can't even get into AII. Am so sorry. That's OK, That was my fault. I am. Summarizing our our chat. So hi, sorry. It doesn't. Thanks. Don't worry. No, no. Not yet. Not yet. It's it's and it won't tell us. But anyway, I'm not that's a different episode because I, you know. Anyway, so Fox, any final

thoughts and comments? Anything you'd like to leave and ask Vega, and anything you'd like to say before we go? Yeah, I think this, this we, we work in similar fields, similar may use. So like what does kratom creative freedom look like for you as a trans artist in this moment? And I guess we can kind of go back and forth on this little bit. Yeah. Do you mean in the like the freedom to make anything at all that you want to make?

I mean, that's kind of like my immediate answers that kind of what you're you're asking. Yeah, I think that's kind of how the question is posed. I have my own thoughts on this too because there's so many aspects that go into what creative freedom really is. I mean I could get into an anti capitalist critique and the need for third places and resources that afford people a healthy relationship to the arts.

Let's go there. So what free, what creative freedom looks like is the time and encouragement and resources to engage with the arts in a way that you feel collaborative because art is what makes us human. I weep for the state of art today. It it is breaking my heart. And so ultimate creative freedom would be the ability for everyone to contribute every story. There's billions and billions of stories to be told. And I would like them all to be.

I mean, that goes back to the, the question of like, you know, the importance of fan fiction and query narratives is that like this is the power we do have as storytellers. It's like, you're not going to green light my stuff, but I'm going to post it on a O3 or I'm going to make it available through TikTok or, or whatever. And I like to think I, I, I'd like to think about my account being sort of the TikTok premium that like, oh, I'm getting a little TV show.

Oh, the new episode drops. And this being the kind of like content that you would not be able to see anywhere else but here it is being delivered by other queer people. Directly and I think that's the strength of social media platforms. I know we're over time. Sorry. That's fine. That's my fault. No, I. I, I really, I really have enjoyed this time tonight that that. We've had and.

This has been this has really been nice and I really have enjoyed it. And Fox, you know, I can't wait to have you back on. Yeah. I'm excited we have we have stuff to talk about. Yeah, this has been. A really great conversation, I love it. Absolutely so. As, as we as we depart now and carry on into our week, Vega, what is the message you'd like to leave our audience with just to, to carry in our hearts into this week in these rough times

that we're in? Keep loving yourself, keep exploring yourself, keep in this time. Yes, it is so important to engage with and develop an appreciation for the arts and finding yourself in media and sharing your favorite films, shows, music, works of art that tie you to those communities and and you know, help build that is what's going to be so important moving forward.

Keeping these narratives alive, keeping these lenses as it's, it's going to feel like we're doing underground work, you know, talking about queer movies that aren't queer, you know, intentionally sharing, sharing work, sharing arts that continues to help people find themselves. That's, that's the, that's your homework. That's your assignment.