Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline, and today I'm joined with Kevin, also known as Sky Spectrum. Welcome back. Hello welcome everyone in the lovely trans narrative podcast world. Yes, It's so good to have you back. Thanks for being here. And Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan Braxton, welcome back. It's so good to have you. Hey, hey, hey, hey. I'm glad to be back. Thanks for having me back. What's up, world? How you doing today? Yes, I need you.
I need your energy in my life. I love it. Thank you for being here. And today, our very special guest, it's Ryan Klinghammer. Welcome to the Transnative. It's so good to have you. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me, really appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. So before we get started, a little bit about Ryan. Ryan is a dynamic community leader, performer and advocate whose work uplifts and energizes the trans and drag king communities across the Midwest.
As the Director of Events for the Metro Trans Umbrella Group, Ryan has played a key role in cultivating affirming spaces, organizing inclusive programming, and bringing people together through celebration in mutual care. With over 7 years of experience as a drag king under the stage name Mars, Ryan brings both creativity and heartfelt storytelling to every performance, using drag as a vehicle for joy, resistance, and visibility.
He currently holds the title of Mr. Trans Midwest 2025 and was honored with the Mr. Trans USA Class of 2024 Outstanding Advocate Awards for his tireless commitment to uplifting trans lives through advocacy, performance, and mentorship. In addition to his pageant and nonprofit work, Ryan Cohost and Co produces King Awakening, A vibrant monthly all drag king show that features rotating themes and offers quarterly workshops designed to nurture and empower new entertainers
entering the scene. His impact resonates through every facet of his work, whether on stage, behind the scenes, or in community spaces where trans joy and liberation are centered. Ryan, thank you for being here. Thank you. I'm going to cry. That was stupid. That was really good. So beautiful. All right, Hey everybody, and welcome back to the Trans Narrative podcast. I am one of your hosts today, Diet of Pepsi. Oh, or Jordan Braxton as I
known, let's say. Hey to everybody, the Caroline and we're back with Kevin and of course, our very accomplished guest today, Mr. Ryan Klinghammer, who is Mr. Trans Midwest. Welcome back everybody. Hey, Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you? Fine, fine, fine. Now you know, here on the Trans Narrative Podcast, we tell the story of trans people. So today we're going to listen to your story. So I'm going to start everything off by asking you this very important question.
So what day were you born? Was it a Wednesday or Friday or Tuesday? What time were you born? Were you born in spring, summer, winter? Was it raining? Was it snowing? Was it sunny? Was it hot? Was it a tornado? Tell me what your early life is like growing up. What was your childhood? And just give us an insight into what little Ryan was. Like so I was born on December 21st of 1998 in here in Saint Louis and actually surprisingly for it being December, it was
not very cold at all. My part of my dead name actually came from roses that sprung up in the middle of December outside of my parents rental. So that's where part of my old name came from and it was just unusually warm. And that kind of starts out my life. I have lived a little bit of here, there and everywhere starting in Saint Louis. That is where my family from is from. That is where I currently live.
From there we moved to Buffalo, NY, for my mom's job and then back to Saint Louis again after she left that company. Then we were in Rantoul, Illinois, which is about 15 minutes outside of the Champaign Urbana area where the University of Illinois is. And then when I was around, I think 11 years old, my parents separated and divorced, and then I'm back in Saint Louis and that's where I've been since then. All right, so, Terry, what was
it like? What was it like growing up, first of all, in Saint Louis, and you mean the Buffalo was that different atmosphere, different, different beliefs? Tell us all about the the contrast. Well, definitely different weather because we lived right on Lake Erie, so we would get lake effect snow. There's pictures of me at three and four years old at Halloween standing in a pile of snow like I would just start coming down in early October. Beliefs wise, go ahead.
You said sounds right, yeah. Yeah, but beliefs wise I was so young I don't really quite remember there being such a drastic difference. My parents were kind of semi religious but not hardcore by any means. My mom grew up Lutheran and my dad grew up Catholic. So we had a lot of like underlying, you know, you have
your morals because of this. But that kind of carried through all throughout wherever we were living, wherever we were going, until I kind of broke away and said I'm not doing this religious stuff anymore, which still to this day bothers my mom, But that's that's her own issue. OK, So what was the what was the one religious thing that that was a proverbial shot about the camels?
Truly for me, my mom went back and forth between being Lutheran and then into non denominational Christian churches and between that and my dad's Catholicism background. All of it started to be very hypocritical and it really confused me from a young age of like. Why? One part of the subsection of Christianity was saying this is OK, but the other was not. And this one is saying it could be nuanced. And I just, I was at a point where I was like, do I even
believe in God? Like I don't really believe in anything from a book of fiction personally. And I, I want to say the biggest thing was seeing the outright homophobia and transphobia in churches of these people trying to say, you know, love thy neighbor as you love yourself, and yet they weren't. So what was your so Did you go to public school, Catholic school, Lutheran's? What kind of public education did you have? Or I said I'm in public. I mean, what kind of education,
Private school, public school? What kind of kid were you when you were in school? Combination of both. I started out in public school and then went to Catholic school for a few years and then when my parents split and we moved back here to Saint Louis, then I was public school throughout the rest. OK, were you were you a computer nerd? Were you athletic? What did you wasn't an extra? Were you a cheerleader? Were you an he was a theater? Kid.
A theater kid and a choir nerd. I was in two different acapella groups. I was in our thespian troupe. I was the stereotypical obnoxious theater kid. Wow, so like, what was your favorite play that you were in? I really like Damn Yankees. It was the one and only show that I was ever cast in because our two directors were both homophobic and transphobic. Oh my God. Which is like with the background that I have.
I'm a train singer. I like was in, you know, theatre productions all throughout, you know, middle school and doing community theatre. But truly, Damn Yankees is one of my favorite shows that I have ever been in. I think the plot of it is really fun. I think I just really like that some guy sold his soul to the devil just to play baseball and be young again. Love that. So I guess it's your school? There was no like high school production of Bakaja. Fold in? No, but I think that would have
been really cool. That would have been amazing. I. Would love to see a high school production of Akash. Now. If they can do Hairspray, why can't they do Akash see and? We did Hairspray in my senior year. Oh, really? Yeah. My God, we love Hairspray. Yeah, we did the four major musicals. We did my four years. We did Footloose my freshman year, then Damn Yankees with sophomore Annie and then Hairspray. Amazing. Were you in all of those?
I was on technical theater support for Hairspray, Footloose, and well, then, then the cast of Damn Yankees. And then I had a situation happen where I was actually not allowed to be in the theater and any participation when Annie rolled around because I got into a physical fight with another person. Spill the. Tea, What happened? So for background, I came out as trans when I was in high school. So I came out this summer between my sophomore and my junior year.
And I was actually not the only trans person out. There was about six of us who by today's standards would have been about trans mask. And I had this guy that we started out as friends. And then I don't quite understand what happened. Even today I don't, but he kind of turned into a Dick and we got into a physical fight because I had been like stapling something up to the call board that I guess he thought was supposed to be his job. And it started out as a screaming match.
And I like it was opening night of our our winter show and he I had like a dress shirt on and a tie on. He grabbed me by the knot of my tie and pulled me in and I had the stapler in my hand and so I beat him with the stapler to get him off me. Ryan, yeah. And so even though I didn't start the fight, I didn't start the altercation at all, the theater teachers both put us on like a suspension from the theater itself.
So during that time I actually got into competing in slam poetry and that was kind of my my spring off from the from the shows. Oh, so you like you like poetry slams then? I like them when they're good. OK, so tell us what it was like coming out as trans in high school and did you have any challenges? It was difficult. It was definitely really difficult. I didn't have the verbiage until I met my first other trans person, which funny enough was the guy I got into the fight with.
Ohio, so like take us down that journey because to go from like friends to them, like fighting and then like he's trans as well. Yeah, wow. So I my sophomore year I kind of started playing around with, with gender expression and at this time I identified with being queer into like a lesbian leaning territory.
And as an adult and understanding what I, how I see presentation now, I realized that I was leaning into being a lesbian because that for me and in like my family dynamic was one of the only ways to present masculinity on an A fat body. So I was like a mask lesbian for I would say almost a year. And then I met him and he had just come out and I was like, you know, that makes a lot of sense.
That makes sense is why I'm wearing 3 sports bras to keep my chest down and not feeling comfortable with being called a feminine name or she her pronouns. So I toyed around a little bit with, you know, different gender identities and different names. So I like, I liked the name Skylark for a little bit. I am so glad I did not keep that name. Skylark. Skylark. OK, I don't see you as a Skylark. I don't see myself as a skylark either. Granted this was like 1516 year
old maid. So and then I got to a point where I I thought I was kind of non binary or at the time we really didn't have the term non binary. So gender fluid genderqueer would have been the closest that I thought I was. And I was, you know, looking at how other genderqueer people online were presenting. And a lot of it was very androgynous and, you know, shifting back and forth. And for me, that just wasn't fitting the vibe. I was only wanting to present
masculinely the entire time. And then I went, oh snap, I'm just a tea boy. And so how would you identify to like right now? I like the term trans mask personally. Like for the general public I just say trans man or like a trans boy. But I I particularly like trans masculine because I don't necessarily identify with being a binary trans man but I don't identify with being non binary either. And I think. You know what? I feel that. I feel that so much because, you
know, I'm sorry. I hope I didn't interrupt. You. No, no, you're fine. I, you know, because I hate labels. I really do. They're so tiring. And you know, I was like, well, I'm just my gender's Caroline and I thought if I had to label it, can I be like a trans non
binary woman? Like for me that just I was like, you know, because I feel so fluid in my identity and I just and I don't even like the term non binary, you know, I just I feel like I'm, I used to say I was a I was just a person, experienced the universe, but now I realize, you know, I'm the universe experiencing a person, just me. I love that. Yes, to each his own. I love that. So why you were your early role
models? I have to think about that because like, I'm going to be honest, like I wouldn't necessarily say that like transitioning was traumatic, but I always do believe that the act of being trans is it can cause trauma. And for me that's like turned off quite a lot of memories of like early transition and early queerness. I didn't have very many trans people to look up to like in general, like popular media, but there was quite a lot of them on YouTube.
So like some of the early role models that I, I do recall it was like Skylar Kerrgel, Alex Birdie, Jamie Dodger, like those kinds of Youtubers that were there because they were some of the most prominent out of all of the like media that I could find. So now I know you like we'll just make it transparent. I know Ryan very well. Ryan are really good friends. I miss trans Midwest.
He's Mr. Trans with West. We have another friend Wes who's MX trans. And so we're kind of like the, we call ourselves team Midwest, team trans Midwest and we hang out and stuff. So I know Ryan and Ryan. I just curious, when did TRAC first enter your life? Did it enter in high school? Was it later in life? So I was aware of what drag was when I was in high school, but actually I didn't. I didn't go to my first show until my freshman year of college.
I was 18 and ended up at Attitudes which was a gay par here in Saint Louis that unfortunately closed during COVID, but they were 18. Plus you'd pay like an extra part of your cover to get in if you were under 21. And that was the first show I saw and I was just mesmerized by the 1st Drag king I ever saw, which was writer. Love him, love him. Love him. I actually just worked with him recently. He was a guest on my show. I got to see him.
I got to see Noah Maserati Seal, who was one of our like best male leads here in Saint Louis. And I just became fascinated with being a drag king. And it was actually not until almost another full year later that I would get up and do my first open stage night. Do you remember what your first song was? It was crazy equals genius from Panic at the Disco and we got to do 2 rounds. So I did that for the first round and then I did Jessie's Girl from Rick Springfield for the second round.
Not Jessie's girl. Yes, Jessie's girl. So yeah, I ended up on my first open stage night a year after seeing my first drag show. And I guess you could say the rest is history, because here I am, seven years later. You got bit by the drag bug. I got bit by the drag bug girl. And so that like, I mean, I started out in drag as well and then that kind of was like the, I call it drag was the gateway drug to transition. Oh my God, go ahead, finish and I'll tell you why I said Oh my God.
So. So how has drag informed your identity? So for me, because I already started transitioning before I got into drag, it's opened up a new way of expression for me out of drag. So for me, I identify as like a gay and then I usually put in parentheses yet vaguely bisexual. Vaguely bisexual. Vaguely bisexual, like predominantly gay but every once in a while if the right kind of like like I'm into masculine people and that's why I say vaguely bisexual because I've dated non binary people.
I've dated like the only people I don't particularly date is women. I'm just not, I don't find myself attracted to them. But I try to keep my like labels open to be a little bit more inclusive so. A lot of like what I do and what I wear is based off of like sis gay male culture. I pretty consistently wear makeup and out of drag and find that I presenting effeminately masculine is like just exactly what I always wanted to do.
OK, Jordan. Yes. So when you said, Oh my God. So now I want to hear that story. Drag in your identity. OK, so in my, when I was on the show and I told my story, I told my story. How drag. It's the same way for me. Diana helped me become Jordan because I I always wanted to be Jordan. I just didn't know how to do it because I came from a kind of a religious African American family. I thought I, I didn't, I knew drag, I knew trans women.
I just didn't want to take that leap from Leonda Jordan. So Diana took care of Jordan until Jordan was ready to blossom. So that's where I use, I use drag as an excuse and a way to put makeup on and wear dresses until I one day just woke up and said, OK, I'm just going to be Jordan. I love that. Yes, Thomas is like, oh, she's here. Such a beautiful story. Well.
Thank you. Yeah. So yeah, I just said Diet. I said Leon protected Jordan and then Dieta took over protecting Jordan and then Jordan finally. Ryan, what have been some pivotal moments in your journey of becoming like, some real moments where like, OK, this is it, I'm on the right path. It just got to keep going and move on. I would say I've had several and especially where I'm at in my journey now, I can look back and
pinpoint. So like in my bio, as Caroline said, you know, I'm the director of events for the metro trans umbrella group. 8 years ago, I walked into a trans masculine support group for them called the Locker Room. And that was the first time I had seen other trans people that looked like me, Like I, you know, I'm, I identify with being
like a plus size kind of guy. And none of the, none of the trans people that were around me when I was in school looked like me. You know, they didn't act like me. They didn't, they didn't dress like me. They were all kind of little gremlin twinks, if you will. And so going to that first meeting set off this whole domino effect of where I am now. So I, you know, just started going to the support group and then I became a volunteer for the organization.
And then down the line, I became the assistant to the previous director of events and worked with him until COVID hit. And then I got elected into my seat last April of 2024. And I can see exactly at that moment that was going into that support group was where I need it to be and where it's got me to today. I would say going to that drag show is the reason why Mars is here today too.
So it's like if you put it all on a timeline, it's funny enough me going to the support group and me going to the drag show were connected because the people that took me to the drag show were people I met at group. OK. That is amazing. I mean, yeah, the amazing, amazing was like it's really nice how that is like the found family that we all talk about. Like from the support to like supporting in every way. Like not just like here come experienced trans, but experienced trans joy.
Exactly. Yeah, that that was me. That was really great. Yes. Like what most do you think helps you feel affirmed and seen and really grounded your identity like helps you know for like 100% certain this is you like you talked a little bit about I think before, but like if there is anything more specific that you're like thinking of. There still, I would say to this day, there still aren't very many trans people that look like me.
And my biggest thing I like is to be that representation for somebody who was like me that needed that. But I just think being around so many gay trans men has really helped because to go from being a lesbian to the complete flipped opposite spectrum of it, it, it took me a while to like, you know, deconstruct gender and sexuality from each other. So I was like, oh, I'm going to transition to a boy that I guess that means I could be bisexual, but probably should date women.
And being around other trans men that like love men really helped and. So you know, last year you at Trans National Pageant, a Trans USA pageantry, you won and awarded the Advocate of the Year award and that's given for the person who does the most advocacy throughout the year. So what led you to community organizing and advocacy for the community? It started really with being part of the March against the anti drag legislation. And granted, like I always have had a background in activism
work. You know, I was part of my high school's walkouts for fair teacher wages. That happened my senior year. And then you think the year before that we had held a massive protest at our administrative building when they tried to cut funding to the arts. So being in the room where it happens, so to speak, of making sure that justice is served has been something I've always wanted to be a part of.
And so when the opportunity arose and the seat was open for the director of events, well, I already had the background of being the assistant. So I thought that it would be a great opportunity to get in there and rebuild what COVID took from M Tug. And I will say we have rebuilt
significantly. So some of the events that I run and some of the things that I do, we have a yearly trans and queer prom and last year we had the largest turn out we have ever had to the prom itself, which made me cry. And as Jordan has seen before, I'm very emotional. I'll just cry at the drop of a hat. She cries when her Mexican food is good. That's so true. Yeah. The sauce is just perfect texture.
I always, and then I always say this, that my job is to create and sustain safe and affirming spaces for all trans and queer people. And of course, that does extend into our other allies to of like straight CIS folks.
Like if you're going to come in and be respectful, then I've got a place for you to be. So creating that has been monumental for me. And then Jordan and I were the organizers together for the trance day of this ability March that we had this year, which had I think almost 300 people at it. I thought they had almost 1000 people in it. I know we had thought about a small crowd and then the crowd turned out to be phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah, far about far beyond our expectations.
Which we're doing that again next year. We're doing it again. We're having another March. On the 29th of this month, don't forget. On the 28th, don't forget. Oh, I won't. Oh girl, I won't. I've been there's a sign that Wes made because the day before the the teed off March, our other Co organizer, Jay worked out with bar PM, which is one of our gay bars getting us space. And then several of the other gay bars donated money to all get us supplies to make posters.
So Wes made this sign that I wanted to carry during the parade or the the March, but somebody else grabbed it before I could. And it's the Missouri State flag and it says show me state, show me love. So I'm going to try and track that down. Yes. I'd love that sign. That is powerful message. Yes, it is. It is. We also made one that references Drag Race and it's got kind of like AI cut out a silhouette of Trump on there and says look how fucking orange you look girl.
Love it. Yes. So tell us about advocacy and pageantry. What is that like and how do they, how do they go together? And tell us a bit about Trans USA. Oh, OK. So I would say not every pageantry system has a background for advocacy, but I do believe most people that do any kind of pageantry system has some kind of want or drive to do advocacy, especially most of the pageantry systems for drag, you know, involve predominantly trans entertainers. And I guess that's just my
perspective of that of course. But specifically Trans USA, our preliminary titles and our like prelim holders are chosen because of the work they do in our communities. So you have to be on the ground working already to have even qualified to make it to nationals. So what they are looking to do is uplift local community leaders and organizers to then go compete to have kind of national recognition and go in and help other people across the country as well. That's Trans USA and I think
it's a phenomenal system. I actually have created a very good relationship with the national director because last year I, I dealt with some fat phobia in how I was judged. And he, you know, we sat down and we talked a lot of it through and he took everything that I said. And so now the judges are going to be talked to more so about, you know, how do you judge somebody that may not have your body type, but like is modeling and it fits well.
And just because it doesn't fit you doesn't mean it does not fit properly on that person. That's really helped, and having a system that directly takes feedback is really, like, amazing. Yes, so you don't have to look a certain way because we both know that Trend USA is not a drag pageant. It's a passion based on community involved make humanity, organizing and advocacy work. So that's why I enjoy going to
it and feel comfortable there. So when you're on stage at a contest or a pageant like Trans USA is, is Mars different in pageant mode than he is in entertainment mode? I would say I walked this, I walked this fine line that throughout at least in last year's pattern, because usually in drag pageantry, I'm kind of in Mars head mode the whole time. But because trans USA is not a drag pageant, I'd say it's Ryan outside of the stage and in interview, but it's Mars who gets on the stage.
And that's, you know, I find that kind of slipping into that headspace makes me feel like the most confidence that I can be, which is, I would say, yes, slightly different than performance mode. My friends, and I think all of you will laugh at this. My friends like to describe my performance style in this one very specific way. And it's that Ryan is a verse, but Mars is a bottom.
And when I when I asked them why and what does that mean, they go well, Ryan walks with the purpose and Mars likes to prance. OK. I can see that Mars is kind of prissy sometimes. I. See your particular. Particular and Ryan can be a little county sometimes which I love you know so yeah. So, so where do you see your, your advocacy who are going and, and these horrible times that
we're having? Ideally, with my advocacy work, I will hopefully be the next Mr. Trans USA and can expand out my work quite a lot more than where it's at now. I actually had an interview the other day for Trans USA and you know, Scrappy, the current Mr. Trans USA, and I were talking about it. I already have a plan in place to help all of the contestants across all three divisions.
And one of the things I want to do is teach other people how to build events what and like tailor it to their communities and look around and see what is the what's needed the most. So, and I'll go into this first part of what I want to do with the contestants directly, and that's what I've been calling it, the take what you need, leave what you don't series. And so that teaches them hands on start to finish how to get
involved in your community. If you don't have that heavy of a background all the way through, how do you get to the national pageant on a budget? Because I've been there, done that for many of many a pageant. And the other portion of teaching the events would be having those contestants go out into their community, ask around, what are you guys needing? What do you want to see at an event? What are spaces that you find affirming that we could work with?
And then go from there. So if that is creating a trans and queer prom, or it's a BBQ, or it is a performance art festival, whatever it is that their community wants to see and wants to be at, then they could do that. And in that work, how have you seen that kind of blossom like with with the people that you're you're engaging with? I luckily I've been able to kind of do it here already before, you know, because that's my plan with future contestants.
But I have several people here that I've already kind of started teaching and doing that. I created and directed the metro trans umbrella group royalty Pageant and that happened in February of this year. So we have three amazing trans folks from this area that one and each of them have to put on
a fundraiser. And so working with them and teaching them how to curate their events to the community, but also do something that they want to see that May not have been there has been so fulfilling. So we have our royalty court members, we have Miss M Tug is Gloria good mix, M Tug is the Lucy Leon Fur and Mr. is Zane Mossretti Steele. And I'll tell you, the three of their ideas are so drastically different from each other, and they all come from a very different background, like
Zane's especially. I love it. He's a black trans man and he wants to do a Pride roller skating party. And it's to honor how one how his parents met. His parents met in a roller skating rink, but to honor the black community and how they used to come together in roller skating rinks as well. That's really nice. I didn't know that about the roller skating like connection with the black trans community.
Yeah, I, he has educated me on quite a few things that I also was not aware of before, but I like, I'm really appreciative of. And so I'm, I'm just so excited to help him put this event together. I think it's going to be a blast. Zalusi is doing a trans and queer fashion show. That sounds fun. Yeah. And their whole background is sustainability. They their entire package for the M Tug pageant was a lot of things bought second hand and repurposed.
They're down that they had for evening wear was I want to say they told me they got it on Facebook Marketplace for like 100 bucks. Girl, this dress, this dress was gorgeous. Oh my God, it. Was. It was. So they want to because M Tug has what's called Alex's closet.
It's a free gender affirming closet named after a facilitator for a non binary group expression spectrum who passed away in 2018. And what we want to do is go through the closet, get donations and put looks together and have them work with designers throughout the community who will do this as well and have trans folks model on the stages and show what trans joy looks like directly in clothing, but also showcasing sustainability within community. Wow. I mean, that sounds fantastic.
And, you know, as Mr. Trans Midwest, what are some of the challenges you faced here in the Midwest with advocacy work? I would definitely say some of the biggest challenges has been directly from the state of Missouri. God bless these GOP assholes. I am going to murder them. Oh God, don't say that. He's Ryan. God, you can't say that. I'm going. To have to edit that, I'm going to have to make sure I remind myself to edit that out. Right.
Is that what you meant to say? Kill them with kindness. I'm going to kill them, murder with them, with kindness, of course. OK. I need. To figuratively do something I don't. Know good I never I never stopped like that they're like well, but you well. Right. All right. And you're crazy. I love that. Yes. The GOP, though, you know we were here three years ago when they said they were not.
Right, I didn't see. You almost dead, you know, But yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a pretty unfortunate space that we're in. But, you know, it's not an unfamiliar space. It's, it's, it's a space that generations and, and our ancestors before, you know, they have been in in precarious situations.
And so, you know what what we're needing to do now is to listen to those that have been here that have that have fought through and, and listen to the voices of marginalized people and, and, and fight through this because it you know, there are ways. It just takes a coalition of community together. And and that's, you know, something that obviously you're doing. Ryan and Jordan, Mr. and Miss Trans Midwest, that's a fan that's just, you know, I feel so honored to have both of you
here. Like this is thank you, Like thank you for taking the time and and, and I'm just I'm so an audience. Thank you for being here and Ryan, you know, what a what a, what a space to be celebrating your journey and your story amidst this, this, this flashes hostile takeover and, and you know, where will it take us?
I, I don't know, you know, but but it's having these moments together in community that that inspire and, and remind us that although we're facing a, a heavy threat, this isn't the first rodeo, at least not for us as a collective. So, you know, voting that community. It came for, you know, gay marriage and for sis gay folks 1st, and they're using a lot of the same rhetoric now that they did then. So it's honest to God, predictable and tired. And Jordan, what do you always
say? You said you were there. First, we're here. We're queer. Get used to it. Amen. Because that we, we use that slogan in the late 70s, early 80s when everything was going, you know, when we had the same predicament that we're in now. You know, people are trying to race trans people, they're trying to write legislators that we, that we can't be married. So no, we're here. We're queer. Get used to it. We ain't going nowhere. That's right, we're here to stay
and we're here to slay. Yes, we're here to stay. We're going to slay. Oh, I. Like that one just. King, we love that. I'm sorry so. So as we are we on the wrap up now or? Yes, I. Oh, OK. Oh, no, I I think we still have a little more to go. I think I have a couple of more absolutely questions. For me now, I'm going to have to remember to edit this part out too. Sorry. Well, so excellent so. Ryan, let me ask you this question.
You know, I, I, you know there's a new reality show out after After almost 2 decades of Ru Paul's Drag Race, there's finally exactly. Where this is going? Yes, yes, you do. Of course. It's about time, isn't it? You know and. Absolutely. So I'm so excited for the show. And, and we're excited for the work that you've been doing. You know, you, you, you have a show. What is it? King Awakening, am I right? It is, yes. Tell us about that.
So king awakening is this culmination of my my dear friend Andrew Genius who is one of my Co producers on it. He when he he was in College in Nebraska, ran the first King Awakening workshop and then he moved home after finishing college. And it had, it had been something that I wanted to do with other, you know, drag king friends of mine, of running basically our own King boot camp. And so we finally got to a point, you know, Andrew and I had been talking about it for a
year and a half, two years. We couldn't find the time, couldn't get the the gaggle of gays together, the gaggle of gays. So we finally got to a point where we could make the time to do it. And Andrew, you know, talked to me and talked to our now other Co producer and Co host, Lucky Charm Dickerson. And so it's kind of an offshoot of the House of Valentino here in Saint Louis. Very cool.
So Lucky and Andrew and I came together and we taught our first workshop in January and we had almost 20 some odd people in the class. And then how we do our workshops is the following month is a showcase. So that's one of the only things that interrupts our monthly themes. So we got that done in February. We took March as a plan and prep month. And then in April we had the first official king awakening with one of our themes. Our theme was divorce, Dad rock.
Oh nice, like how? How was that received? So, well, it was a really packed house for that. So we ended up, you know, I did you and Your hand from Pink and I did Paralyzer. Andrew and I together did Photograph from Nickelback and halfway through realized neither of us fully know the lyrics to Photograph from Nickelback. Lucky, lucky. Oh my God, let me tell you that Andrew and I just adore him. He is such a dynamic entertainer that has an eclectic taste, and so we're never quite sure what
he's going to pull out next. He ends up doing closer from 9 Inch Nails because he was like, I don't know if that's divorced dad music. I said it is, do it. Definitely. And he ended up pulling his wife up on stage with him and almost giving her like, this, like, sensual lap dance. And the audience lost their shit. And like, I was hosting at that point, I had just finished changing and I'm sitting there going, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, it was so good.
So I'm very happy and excited to, you know, work with both of them. And funny enough that you brought up King of Drag, Andrew did apply to be on the 1st season of King of Drag and unfortunately did not make it. But Dick Van Dyke, who did make it onto this season, is a, a old acquaintance of mine who I used to work with.
He's actually from Saint Louis and then since, you know, leaving Saint Louis, he lived in Kansas City for a little bit and then he's been up in Minneapolis for the last couple years. When I talk. About an amazing entertainer. Oh my God. Yeah, he was. Actually, I saw him. He was at Kayla. Yeah, Yeah, last year. So that's how I saw because I attended Gala as a choral member. So yeah, because I also sang. So yeah, it was a phenomenal performance. Like whoa.
Yeah, he's an entertainer that I have looked up to since I started drag. I've been just, I'm a fan of everything he does. I think it's so well thought out and just the way he engages with an audience makes my jaw drop. It turns me on. It like makes me flushed. And I'm and, you know, Dick is a lesbian out of drag. So really I got to I got to be like, all right, let's let's get away from this man. I think we lost Jordan. Yeah, I don't know where Jordan went.
Oh gosh, now I got to edit that part out too. It's OK, we continue on. The audience won't know she'll be back. So. So let me ask you, let me ask you, Ryan, what's something powerful or surprising you've seen emerge from King Awakening shows or workshops? You know, I remember where someone stepped into themselves in a whole new way beyond what you've already mentioned with, with, you know, these these entertainers that you've mentioned.
What's something that really stands out in in the last in the in the last bit of time? I think something that really stands out and it actually it, it brought me to tears.
And then they brought, you know, Andrew and Lucky like really emotionally as well, seeing people who have talked about, you know, I'm not confident or I don't think I have the confidence to do this and see them go out and do it anyway and see them build themselves up and whether they're just performing or whether they're building a concept, just pushing past their fears. And we saw a handful of people that were like that in the first showcase in February.
I think we're going to see our next showcase is actually this month on the 28th because we are the only entirely King Show and Pride weekend, which I'm very proud of. And especially having our young entertainers, I hope they feel just as proud as we are of them. I have to tell you this, we've got a, we've got some stellar names for our entertainers for this year. Or excuse me, this showcase, we've got one named himmy Buffett. Yeah, I got to pull this up because there's some good ones.
My, my friends Wes and Chip are also doing the showcase. And so Wes's drag name is Weston Show. Weston Show. That's and then Chip is Walter Ego. Walter Ego. Like there's some really good ones. So Mars is your drag king persona? Correct. So how do you how do you describe the energy or essence of Mars? What does he allow for you to express that Ryan might not? Mars wears a lot more rhinestones than Ryan does.
Yes, quite a lot more. Which is funny because I do run kind of a side hustle business where I rhinestone custom pieces for other people. So you would you would think I am also constantly covered in stones and the only time I am is if they spill and they get all over me and then I'm finding them all over my apartment for the next three weeks. How has your How has your relationship with masculinity evolved through drag? Has Mars helped you heal, Reclaim. Reshape your understanding of
masculinity? Absolutely, like Mars has helped me in so many ways of like pre transition. I liked high fem like at times before I even went down the masculine route. I like you know, flamboyant and effeminate qualities in people. I like it myself being able to go up on stage and covered in rhinestones or sequins or wearing like a lace shirt. I like to wear fishnet shirts a lot. Getting to do that and present in a very similar way to like my ciske counterparts.
Do you know, in clubs is very healing for me. It like makes it so much more approachable to present like effeminate traits and it makes me just, it feels so good. Is the best part for you of getting up and performing. I it's the cheering crowd, but not for me. Like, I mean like, I like that they're cheering for me. Don't get me wrong. I like that they're having fun and I'm somebody who feeds on an energy. So if the crowd's got a great energy, then I'm like right
there with them. And I like, I like fucking with them a little bit. Like usually if I, I'm taking a tip, I like to, you know, I wasn't part of a drag family until recently. So a lot of what I learned in mannerisms and how to take tips I learned from Queens. So, you know, I, you know, take the tip, give them a little wing, give them a little kiss, like just blow them a little
kiss that way. Or like if there's a specific part of a song like oh God, you in your hand when it's at the very end, Oh, quit spilling your drink on me. I literally like do the whole thing. And I pointed out at an audience member, quit spilling your drink on me. Like, I love giving them those little moments. So drag Queens still don't get mainstream visibility, at least not as much as drag Queens do. What do you think people miss when they overlook King
artistry? I think they miss someone, some phenomenal entertainers. But I think the other thing is I find that being a king is to challenge traditional masculinity, whether you know, somebody is presenting like how I do very like high effeminate, or whether it's like Murray Hill, who's the host of king of drag, where he is a little bit more on the traditional I, I consider him more of a
traditional king. I think they miss any chance of getting a new experience and expanding their horizons Because I love, you know, I love a good queen. I I love when they get to the Kaka de Kaka de Kaka and their, you know, windmills and their donkey kicks, which I also do. Yeah. You ever see a drag king do a windmill and do a donkey kick? I can honestly say no, I have not. So that's. Then you got to come to one of my shows. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing.
I I'm of the belief anything a queen can do, I can do too. Yes. But I think they miss such a like, also historic form of queer art. Like open it up, you know? Gender is something to be played with, and if you're only going to look at the feminine side you are missing so much. As someone who mentors and uplifts other entertainers, what advice would you give to those little baby kings who are just starting out?
Find a way to pump yourself up because that's what I do before a show is, you know, whether that's listening to your music, whether that's, you know, kicking with your, your cast mates in the dressing room while you're getting ready, Pump yourself up and create that connection because I guarantee you that's what's going to keep bringing you back in Like, and that's how you build the relationships.
That's how you really start to get a feel for who your your drag persona is. Has there been some like baby drag kings that have been like really nervous starting out and then something that you said to them was just like, oh, yeah, like there is the the catch or do you? Is it mostly the people who are like hungry, ready to go?
A lot of the people that have done the workshop are kind of already hungry and ready to go because a lot of them, you know, they talk about, they've been thinking about this for a while. This isn't, it's not something that they take lightly. I guess I, one of the ones I, I from this most recent workshop that I, I really noticed was Nat, who is performing under the name Dante Inferno. I love that name.
I know I love that name too. They kind of came into the class and they seemed a little like, OK, I'm going to hang out in the back and they didn't ask very many questions. And then we did a portion of like teaching stage presence and like how to properly take tips and everything. And I was not expecting Nat to, like, pop off the way that they did. They got on that stage. They said, oh, my God, You Can Dance. And so it was, you know, it's the quiet ones that always get ya. Yeah.
That's true in a lot of things, too. So what does what does trans liberation look like from the stage and what does it look like from behind the curve? You mean? You've already touched on that so much, but tell us a little more. I in my perspective, so when I started drag, I hadn't had top
surgery yet. So my trans liberation moment was like the first time, you know, after I'd had top surgery and was performing, was able to pop my shirt open and like not have to worry about, you know, laws and nip slips. And I mean, my nipples were still out, but I like to call them my Gucci nipples. That was. That was pure trans liberation for me.
And behind, behind the curtain and especially in the workshop, you know, we teach about not just what people think a drag king is. So usually, you know, they, they think, oh, a drag queen is a man dressed as a woman or, you know, a king is a woman dressed as a man. We really teach that background of, you know, trans people have always been very involved with drag. And the majority, not all, but the majority of the kings that I am aware of are trans in some way or another.
And a lot of the Queens are as well. Would you agree with me on that, Jordan? Yes, I do. Yeah, I, I think, you know, teaching that from the start so people kind of understand what they're walking into, and also that this could be a time to educate on like trans identities and maybe help somebody figure out who they are. Yes. Brute drag. Like we all did, yeah. So you're now Mr. Trans Midwest 2025, the former a mentor, an organizer, and you've already been honored as an outstanding
advocate. That's the legacy work in motion, Ryan. If you zoom out, ask the pageants, pass the applause, what does legacy truly mean to you? Legacy for me is making sure that once I'm gone or, you know, once I, I need to step away from the work for a bit, that those safe and affirming spaces are still being created and that, you know, marches are still being organized and people still have a place to come and be
safe. I think that's the biggest thing for me. When When people speak your name years from now, whether it's Mars, Ryan, or both, what do you hope they remember, feel, or even carry forward? And more importantly, what are you consciously trying to leave behind for the next generation of trans leaders in drag? King stepping into the light. I think I want them. I want to be remembered for helping, like, as as many people as I could have, like anybody who I crossed paths with.
I had hope in some way or another, whether it's more profound or less, that I could have helped them. That's beautiful. So in these trying times, my final question to you is what does pride mean to you this year? Pride to me this year, especially with, you know, the current government and federal bullshit. Pride is a protest and but, and I always especially put that but. What is what should we do to protest this year? What is what what? And its pride in its selfless.
With the protest and Pride especially, you know, we're doing the the protest on the 28th. But with the protest, I do think people need to remember that we can't be fighting all the time, that there is a time for rest and there is a time for celebration. And I do think Pride can be both a protest and a celebration.
And that's where I was going with my butt is that especially we've been in our community having a lot of backlash because price St. Louis, you know, has now had a $10 cover to get into pride to help sustain the organization going further after, you know, several major corporate sponsors backed out. And I read that press release, I thought it made total sense. But the amount of people in our community that are saying, oh, we shouldn't have to pay for
this, Pride was a protest. Why are we doing this? But they're also the same people that if Pride got any smaller, they'd be bitching about it too. They bitched that it was too corporate. They bitched when we're asking for community help. You can't have it both ways. And remember that Pride is the protest and it's a time for us to celebrate. And if putting some money down is going to help continue that and sustain it, then so be it.
I will do it. And sometimes people don't read the whole press release because we're actually giving away free tickets. If you can't, no one will ever be turned away from pride, regardless of your financial situation. And, and, but they don't read that part. They go, oh, it's $10 on my pin. But this is the kick that gets, that burns my butt, is that people will go to different cities and pay 30 and $40 A, to get it all Pride or B, to get into a, a club.
Remember, remember when we tried to charge cover charges here in Saint Louis? Everybody pitched about that. But yet you go to New York, you got to pay $30 in the club and they'll gladly shell out that money and not say one word about it. We have to change the mentality here in Saint Louis that everything should be free. It's not free. Free people think all the money
goes to entertainment. No. There's security, there's fencing, there's advertising, there's security, there's the stage that has to be put up. Yep. All cleaning up too, yeah. And the cleaning up and the porta potties. We don't feel you full of liquor, but give you know where to. Yeah, yeah. So they don't mention. Think about all those things. Sorry about that, I got on the tangent for a moment. Well, you know, I love the tangents. So you mentioned the 28th, the protest.
What are you showing up for? What are you showing up for as much as what you're showing up against? What's the dream beyond just the resistance? I'm showing up for the people that were like me, that were trans kids and that are now trans adults and showing that, you know, we can live past youth. I'm going to be honest, like I didn't think I was going to live past 18 years old. And now I'm 26. And I want them to see, you know, you can grow up to be a
fulfilled and happy trans adult. I love that. How do you how do you hold space for joy in a world trying to a racist? How do you stay connected to celebration without the fire, the protests going out? I tried to get away from social media to like, hold on to my joy. You know, I, I, I'm very particular about how much media I consume all at once so I don't send myself down a spiral. But I also, and I actually just had this conversation with my board vice president, Jessica.
I was with her in New York City this weekend. I went to Lambda Legals Liberty OH. My God, Lambda. Legal at the awards, they had Commander Schilling come up and she was the the fighter pilot who sued Donald Trump. And a lot of what the awards were talking about is fearlessness and fearlessness and fearlessness. And something she said that really struck me was you should feel fear and you should be able
to feel that. And you know where this LED into the conversation with Jessica, If you if you don't know Jessica Hicklin, I think she would be phenomenal for this, for this podcast, like, and she's just amazing. We talked about what does it look to be in fear while also being in leadership. And for me, I don't want the people that I protect to see it out of me. But that does not mean that I'm not scared.
And that does not mean I can't talk to my colleagues about it and, you know, get the support that I need while also still supporting others. How can our audience find out more about you and stay in contact and keep up to date with your work? Yeah, so you can find me under, you know, the same name on Facebook. Please shoot me a message before. Do not just add me and then on Instagram I've got a personal drag account and a a a drag account.
So my personal account is at Delirium Knight KNIGHT not not like night time. And then my drag account is at Mars dot drag. Awesome. Wow. Yes, Jordan, Kevin, Brian, I've really enjoyed this time that we've had here, Ryan. It's been, it's been so nice. This has been. Thank you so much for being here with us today, you know. Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it. Thank you for coming on. This has been a really great time talking with you, Ryan and Jordan as well.
And Caroline and one big happy trans narrative. That's right. Speaking of a Speaking of Trans Narrative, if you'd like to be a part of this program, please e-mail us at Trans Narrative podcast@gmail.com. That's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com. And I will reply swiftly and get you in my spreadsheet. You know, I just, I just want to say audience, thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us your time and your attention and just being here with us present and
in these conversations. It really does mean so much. And, and I see that and, and thank you for showing up. And Jordan, thank you for being here, Kevin and, and, and Ryan. Kevin, before we go, do you have any final thoughts or anything you'd like to say, any questions you'd like to ask Ryan before we depart? Thank. You for showing up in our community, and thank you for being a voice of power and persistence. So, yeah, thank you. This is going to make me cry.
Jordan wasn't kidding. I cry at everything. Everything. Yes, Jordan. Yes, and my love. My sweet Jordan, oh gosh, I'm so happy. Turn the camera on for a minute so I can see it. Thank you. You got extra time for me because my flights been delayed. I guess there's. Storms got delayed. I guess there's storms in in Saint Louis and so they delayed it now. So thank you. That's always here, and I always love being on this podcast with you, Caroline, and with Kevin and Ron today.
I'd love the purpose of this podcast is to tell trans stories because we need to give more of our stories out there. And God bless you, Caroline, for getting us this platform to tell our stories. It's, it's truly a joy to to spend the, the weeks here with, with the audience and you and, and everyone here. Jordan, do you have any final questions you'd like to leave us with? Ryan, anything like that? Just just I know Ryan, and Ryan is a true and true advocate through and through.
He works very hard for the community. He don't take no shit off nobody. And whenever I need a March, he's my March partner. I know I can count on him to take our streets over and I appreciate him for that. Because they're whose streets. Are streets well? I I appreciate you, Jordan, Kevin, thank you all so much for being here audience again. It's a pleasure or joy Ryan, as we as we carry on this week in the part, who would you like to leave our audience with to just
to carry on this week? What's the message? What are you leaving us with? The same thing I said in my speech at the The Trans Day Visibility March, that despite everything going on, the trans and queer people will find joy in the darkest of times, and that we have to put our best foot forward to make sure we still get that joy.