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This is Possibility, powered by Shopify. So sign up for your £1 per month trial at shopify.co.uk slash totally all in lowercase. Go to shopify.co.uk slash totally to take your business to the next level today. One more time, shopify.co.uk slash totally, T-O-T-A-L-L-Y. The Athletic FC Podcast Network. Totally Football Show. Today we're talking Premier League Match Day 24 with some MLS too at the Emirates.
It was a huge weekend for Arteta and Mateta, for City and United 1-2 for Guetta. We'll be discussing the Arsenal statement win against City, the magnificent seven from Forest, the biggest weekend for Saints and Wolves in St. Francis of Assisi, and Everton's 11th second. Stunner. Much, much more as well in this Totally Football Show. Sunday 2nd of February. And in the studio today, we've got Jay Harris. Hi, Jay. Good evening. Good evening to you.
Adrian Clarke's here as well. Hello. Nice to see you. No Daniel Story on the big screen today because he's here in the studio. All right, Daniel. Good evening, James. Here and buzzing, it's fair to say, you and Adrian have arrived hot-footed from the Emirates. Yeah, it felt like, not just because I'm in the studio, but a massive... Premier League weekend in general I think a really really good weekend of Premier League football
Astrid, depending on who you support. And yeah, I have come from the Emirates where I'm picking out one home game for every team this season. I don't think I could have picked better than any Arsenal game in the last five years at home. It felt like the last 20 minutes felt this kind. cathartic release of pent-up aggression and emotion that probably goes all the way back to late-era Wenger when they were getting those lessons from other big teams. There was this relentlessness to punish.
City for their faults. And they... You know, the whole stadium kind of bought into that joy at doing it. Right. Don't look at Adrian. He's slumped in a beer-stained Arsenal top in the corner of the studio. We'll see if we can get any sense out of him later on. But what a huge game. Your match, Jay. The Brentford Spurs one, less of a buzz about that one, but still significant.
Yeah, less of a buzz, but a massive win for Spurs. You know, they'd lost four league games in a row. So it's vital that they got some sort of momentum in the league. And this week feels season-defining for them with second leg of the Carabao Cup against Liverpool.
FA Cup tie against Aston Villa. So if they'd gone into that game having drawn or lost to Brentford, the confidence is already quite low. It just would have been rock bottom. So yeah, a big win for them. Okay. Matchday 24. We've just seen Arsenal Man City. Finished 5-1 for the Gunners earlier on Sunday as Jay was mentioning 2-0 for Spurs away at Brentford. At the same time Man United were losing 2-0 at home to Palace. Palace who have.
won more times at Old Trafford in the last six seasons than any other side, including probably Man United, although we've got to check those figures. Saturday, Nottingham Forest kicked things off by giving the Seagulls a good kicking, 7-0.
Nuno's boys won that game. In the three o'clock matches, Everton took less than 11 seconds to score their opening goal against Leicester and then added another three afterwards, picking up their third win in a row under David Moyes. Saints won for only the second time this season.
There was a way to their neighbours at the bottom of the table, Ipswich. They remained 10 points from safety. Wolves climbed out of the bottom three with a 2-0 win in the derby with Aston Villa and it was 2-0 on the satay for Liverpool as well in a hard-fought win. against Bournemouth. Now the result, Fulham going to Newcastle and winning 2-1. Round 24 concludes Monday night when Chelsea host West Ham. Woof, we begin at the Emirates.
This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network. No diggity. Peter Drury there, summing it up as ever. That was Arsenal's third goal. Others would have followed from Havertz and then a magnificent assist from Declan Rice for the Noaneri. Noaneri. Yeah, I feel that's a name I'm going to have to get right sooner or later. What a game. Adrian, you were there. Great goals, great trolling.
And a great Arsenal performance. Yeah, it was magnificent. Yeah, thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of it, really. The funny thing is, Arsenal... sort of had about half an hour off in the game where they sort of just went all passive and let City have the ball and invited pressure. And at that point, I was thinking, come on, Arsenal, you...
City are there for the taking here. Just step on it. You know, let's get at this really fragile midfield and defence. And then as soon as they started to do that, the cracks opened up. And it was a lot of fun. It was obviously... it feels extra special for Arsenal supporters because of the maulings that we've taken at the hands of Manchester City down the years and I also think the fact that two kids from Hayland who should really be in the FA Youth Cup side
Scored today, scored brilliant goals, played amazingly well. And it just feels like, you know, Arsenal are sort of ushering in a new era of, you know, success and with fantastic talent. The opponents today are coming to the end of their period of dominance. I mean, they looked slow, they looked tired, they looked old. And without the ball, Manchester City were diabolical.
I don't think I've ever said that, you know, until recent weeks. They were so easy to play against. Arsenal sliced through them at will, didn't they? So, yeah, it was a great day for Arsenal. But if I was a City fan, you know, you... You can't wait for the season to end, I'd imagine. Right, depending on what news that brings as well. Martin Odegaard opened the scoring after 104 seconds. For the second week in a row, it was a defensive error by Man City, which set their opponents up.
Angie this time. The ball intercepted and Odegaard gets things underway. As you were kind of saying, the rest of the first half, Arsenal didn't really press home that advantage. And so it was that having been taunted by Gabriel... That Erling Haaland on probably only his seventh touch of the game I'm thinking and he only made eight I think in the entire match Pulled off a magnificent header to beat William Saliba, no, but only 38 seconds after that
Boom, the Arsenal mauling begins. It changed the game, didn't it? It sort of woke Arsenal out. It was a prodigious leap, wasn't it? An amazing sort of hang time from Haaland. I mean, Saliba... His defending wasn't great. But yeah, it woke Arsenal up and I think they needed to score very quickly. And because they did, I think then they started to have a little bit of fun with it. I thought before the game that fast breaks and pressing would be...
Key factors, obviously, and that is exactly what happened. City have been vulnerable to being caught playing out from the back. Arsenal seized on that. And Arsenal have been the most efficient team in the Premier League from fast breaks this season, but they just haven't had very many of them. They've scored from a very high percentage of the breaks. And today, I mean, the... was it goal number four from Havers, was just the perfect breakaway goal, wasn't it? And then it was a bit of party time.
Was it Waineri's goal? Was it a passing sequence of 36? 36. It lasted one minute and 54 seconds, much like your answer just now, and involved every Arsenal outfield player. Yeah, it was the perfect way to crown things. wasn't it so yeah happy days it was um yeah it was an enjoyable one
It was enjoyable. All right. Arsenal enjoyed it. They played Kendrick Lamar's humble at full time. Don't know what the significance of that was. We'll move on, though, anyway. Lewis Skelly celebration as well. Yeah, so true. In a game which... he might not even have been able to feature him. Well, yeah, if the red card from last week hadn't been rescinded, then he wouldn't have been involved in this game and played such a big part in it. And just on Lewis Skelly, he's obviously...
I think he mainly plays in centre midfield and is sort of slotting in at left back and doing a fantastic job. But that left-sided number eight role and left back are two areas of the pitch Arsenal spent a lot of money on over the last few years and never really found that...
permanent solution. Calafiore looks good, but his injury records have not been great since he's come in. Tomiyasu, Zinchenko, Marino, Zubomendi, etc. And you'd feel like Luis Skelly has got to be the solution to one of those. I think he's good enough to do. I think he might end up replacing Thomas Partey as the sort of base at the midfield. He's just got such composure, hasn't he, on the ball. And balls of steel.
You know, under pressure. You know, with the tighter the situation, the better he gets. And I think it was twice today that Erling Haaland bounced off him. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I mean, he's strong. So, yeah. The funny thing is, as amazing as he's been lately, he's really just a makeshift left-back. It's not really his position. It's incredible what he's producing. Well, Thomas too could be watching that with interest, Daniel. Yeah, I mean...
It's so interesting how apparent problem positions can get solved or options make themselves available. Six months ago, you'd have said that England and left back was... Well, it was a complete dearth of options. Ben Chilwell has gone way off the radar. Luke Shaw's gone way off the radar. Kieran Trippi has played there and he's gone way off the radar. And so England needed something. And in Lewis Hall and Lewis Gelley...
They've got options now. I suspect Hall is above him for now because he is a proper left back. But international managers and Thomas Tuchel in particular love multifunctional footballers and they love young multifunctional footballers. I think he'll be in the squad. I don't see why he wouldn't be. Yes, there might be a case for giving him a couple of under-21 windows, but he looks like he can jump to every challenge and you gain from the experience of being around England squads.
get him in that St George's Park picture he'll have a great time it's amazing Manchester City who had shown some signs of Rediscovering their form in the Premier League, at least. Today, Sunday, coming away with their biggest ever defeat, we think, under Guardiola. Colin Miller pointing out this was a team that once was defined by control and is now all about collapses, late collapses. in particular they've conceded four or more goals in a game for the fourth time this season but particularly
This against Arsenal and recently against Paris Saint-Germain, four goals after the 56th minute of the match. You could also throw in, if you wanted, the three they shipped against Feyenoord in the last 15. And also... not long ago in the Premier League, two against Brentford in the last 10 and Man United too. Yeah, I think what's happening, there's two things happening. Firstly, from what I saw today, firstly, the central midfield are just not showing for the ball quickly enough.
when they need to, which invites the pressure of that press. It means that when the defender gets the ball, they're worried about where that next pass is going. Therefore, sometimes the concentration of the touch is wrong, which was, I think, what happened to Manuel Akanji. And the other thing is that they seem... incapable of reacting to
setback, both in the immediacy of making a mistake in play. Phil Foden's a good example. He makes a mistake and then there's just such a huge space to run into for Arsenal players. And also in the kind of bigger picture, you know, you can see the goal and it... leads to one and two. And that's something we've said about Manchester United over the last couple of years. It's not something we've said about Manchester City. I can only think it stems from...
There is one way of playing at Manchester City, which is passing out from the back. You can't say, just go direct, just clear your lines, because that's the whole ethos, right, of Guardiola's Manchester City. So they're trying to do the same things, and it just invites pressure they can't push off. Yeah, and there's also running. okay running is a big part of football we probably don't talk about it enough um arsehole can run all day
They've got young athletic players, particularly powerful down the middle. You saw Declan Rice with that breakaway down the middle of the pitch, just leaving City for dead. They just don't have the personnel without Rodri to cover space. And the football pitch is... A big. When you're playing good teams, the pitch becomes much bigger. And the pitch looked huge today at times in that second half for Manchester City. They couldn't get...
you know, within two or three yards of Arsenal players. So it's a personnel issue. I'm staggered that they haven't signed a central midfielder. I mean, they've signed a centre-half. They've signed a great, great forward in Mumu, which I really like the look of him.
Why haven't they signed a midfield? It does almost look as if they're caught between a rock and a hard place where they think, well, this season's going so badly. Do we just, as they actually did in Guardiola's first season, do we almost just see this as a planning season and bye for next? the next campaign which at least suggests that Guardiola will be there for it which is a good thing but they also
they're still in the Champions League and they've got Real Madrid. They're just starting a run of games now where they play teams around them. They're in serious danger of not qualifying for the Champions League next season in a season where the Premier League will probably have five places. So it's, yeah, it's...
I cannot understand the non-signing of a central midfielder, even if it was something like Douglas Luiz from Juventus, which was just as a kind of makeshift solution. It's an expensive makeshift solution, but then it's expensive not being in the Champions League. Indeed. Real Madrid coming up in 10 or 11 days' time, middle of the week after this one. Man City for now are fourth, but Chelsea still to play their game. They could move past.
They could move past Pep's side with a victory there against West Ham on Monday. Arsenal, meanwhile, came into this match nine points behind Liverpool, so they needed the win. This following Liverpool's visit to the Vitality Stadium, where of course Arsenal and Man City and Forest had all stumbled this season, but not on a slot side. 2-0. 2-0. It was a close game though.
Not sure how much you'll have seen of this, it not being on TV. Yeah, I've seen bits of it. Bournemouth had a couple of great chances. I think Tavernier hits the post and then Clive that fluffs the, it's basically an open goal. Semenya hits the post and then obviously Salah just does what Salah does and when the opportunities fall for him, the second goal in particular is fantastic. I know there's a little bit of debate about that penalty. Where do you sit on that particular?
I don't know, it's quite hard. When you end up watching the replay over and over and over again, you sort of start second-guessing yourself. But at first glance, I thought he probably has... tripped him and when a forward gets his body in front of a defender like that it doesn't take a lot of contact for them to go down like that but sometimes you think oh he's gone down theatrically but actually because he's running at such speed even a slight clip probably takes him down
Now I've watched the replay so many times on Match of the Day. I'm like, okay. You begin to doubt yourself. The onus is on, once the attacker gets ahead of the defender, the onus is on the defender for them not to be contacted. Because as soon as there is... I think you're in a situation where you're lucky if you get away with not a penalty. Well, it was given, and he scored it, and then he added that sensational second, which was his 21st of this campaign, and puts him top...
in all-time Premier League goal-scoring history. Yeah, I think he went above Lampard. Oh, yeah. Is that right? I think so. That's mad, isn't it? Trent Alexander-Arnold. Is he all right? He looked sore. I mean... We're obviously in a, for every Premier League team, we're in a good period of time with the FA Cup next weekend. It means that if we're talking reserve teams...
You know, teams are going to go away on warm weather training. They're going to give players days off. It didn't look serious, so... I think he's all right. I think it's also the position in which Liverpool have probably got pretty good cover now, almost more than any other player in that team, which is a ludicrous thing to say about Trent. But yeah, I think he'll be fine. Yeah, look, the fine margins went Liverpool's way here. Obviously, two post shots. There was also a five...
yard sort of toe poke from Semenya that he could easily have scored the penalty debatable disallowed goal little toes offside so everything sort of went Liverpool's way but I don't want to take anything away from them because they've gone to Bournemouth who have beaten the rest of the top four and they've won and they've won with a clean sheet they're 19 unbeaten in the Premier League they do have some resilience about them Liverpool it's theirs now it is theirs
Things can unravel quite quickly in football. We've seen it before. But they don't look like unravelling at Liverpool, I have to say. Before they play in the FA Cup, they've got Possocoglu's Super Spurs. Yes. Two wins in a row, Tottenham Hotspur. who, having seen off the Swedes of Ellsburg on Thursday night to seal their place in the last 16 of that competition, came through with another win and another clean sheet away at Brentford. I'm not sure. Is that still a tough place to go, Jay?
Still reasonably tough place to go. Their home record is not as good as it was before Christmas. I know you mentioned it earlier. It was only beginning of January that they drew with Man City. Very, very true. Tell us about Spurs' performance. I think just on the England left-back situation, I have to give a shout-out to Jed Spence. He's technically a right-back. I'm sure you're very familiar with him.
He missed their defeat to Leicester City last weekend and he's ineligible in the Europa League, certainly the league phase. It's just mad how much they've missed him for two games. I just cannot quite wrap my brain around how. He joined Spurs in the summer of 2022, only made his first start in December, but he's playing out of his skin.
So today, Kevin Sharder and Keane Lewis Potter on the left gave Pedro Porro quite a few problems. Jed Spence up against Brown and Boomer, who's arguably one of the best. most informed wingers in the league this season, scoring a lot of goals. And Bumo barely got a look in in the game. Spence was just excellent. He's so good going forward. He's so good defending. He clears Carvalho's overhead kick off the line. I just...
I cannot understand how no Spurs manager before thought that he was worth persisting with. Now, maybe it's an off-the-pitch issue. There were things that happened on the training ground that we're not privy to that maybe impacted that. But over the last two months, he's been sensational for Tottenham to the point where I think even when Poro and Adoghi are both fully fit, there's an argument that Spence should start. ahead of one of them i think he's misunderstood before
His body language is not the best. Now, I got caned a little bit for my body language. I was a bit sort of chilled out sometimes with shoulders slumped, arms by the side. Lager on the table. Yeah, lager on the table. Yeah, I did.
I'm a little bit sort of, yeah, when it comes to body language, I will be defend players. Right. And I do, because I don't think it's always a fair reflection. And I think he's body language. You know this, Daniel, from his time at Forest. It could be very sloppy and he looks lazy. He looks like he's not really body language.
And I think that upsets some managers. And they just think, well, I don't like that. And they almost dismiss him. But as you rightly said, Jay, he's got the tools. He's quick. He's strong. He's technically good. He's now focusing. It looks like he's focusing really hard, probably because he's playing out of position. He's having to really concentrate. And he's done a great job in the North London derby.
I thought he was one of Spurs' best players. Sorry, but like you're saying about some people will perceive him as being a bit sloppy, etc. He's definitely got a laid-back persona, but... I actually think that helps having that temperament because he is playing, you know, in the first leg of the Carabao Cup semi-final against Salah, he didn't look phased at all. It's almost like...
He's so relaxed and so confident in his own ability that he doesn't need to go around proving himself to other people and actually think with the right person. That's a very... valuable asset to have, to not be fazed. I think he is certainly a type of person who, when he thinks he needs to prove people wrong, is probably at his best. When he came to Forrest,
He'd obviously fallen out with Neil Warnock at Middlesbrough and Warnock was, you know, effectively wrote him off. And I think he basically, that promotion bid, Forrest's promotion bid was fuelled by Jed Spence's form. He was playing the whole of the right side. He got Forrest promoted. And I think at Spurs, maybe he got the move a bit too early and he didn't feel he had to...
be at his best all the time. And now he's just... Conte killed him in that, like straight away by calling him a club signing. So straight away, that puts you on the back foot. But he got the man of the match award today and he deserved it. You should never write off a player just... because one manager never doesn't like you.
Seriously, I mean, how many times have we seen it? It can happen where a manager just takes a dislike to someone. It does not mean that they can't go somewhere else or even stay and outlive that manager and be a success. I think... So much in a footballer's career depends on the gaffer and how you get on with them. So true, Adrian. Spurs need all the help they can get at the back.
So many absences at the moment. Van der Ven, Romero, Dragozin, Ben Davison, Archie Gray had to play centre-half. They have acquired a reinforcement in the shape of Kevin Danso.
who apparently may make his debut at Anfield on Thursday. I think, from what I understand, he'll be fine to play. There's no sort of... legal complexity that means he can't play right on Thursday evening but yeah like you said Tottenham's injury crisis which I wrote about a couple of weeks ago every time you think it's going to end
It gets worse and Possible glad she cracked a joke about that the other day He said every time he thinks he sees light at the end of the tunnel turns out to be an oncoming train But drag us in Drag us in on Thursday Landed really awkwardly, immediately kind of grabbed his knee in pain. And the only update Postacogli gave us today was, it doesn't look good. I think Romero's had a setback. He was training a couple of weeks ago. There was an open training session on Wednesday ahead of the...
the Elspog Europa League game and he was just in the gym while the rest of the players were out training and certainly Posto Coglu didn't sound too optimistic he'd be back anytime soon so they sort of had to go into the transfer market they were linked with Matthias Tell. And then all these injuries happened again. And now they've gone for Kevin Dancer. Just when I thought I was out of this injury crisis, they dragged us in. I saw that joke in your eyes.
no good start the dance so at Anfield but that's a bit more niche Sunday's other game at two o'clock was at Old Trafford and it's all Palace winning 2-0. Before we head on to Satay's action then, let's just quickly get a check on what happened there. Matt Wisnam was across this and now joins us from deep inside the creaking old pile that is Old Trafford.
Matt, what a weekend for Palace. Brighton get mullered and Palace get their annual win at Old Trafford. Jean-Philippe Petra inspired victory at that. He is in a superb ball and I would like to take credit for it because he said he could be one of the best goal scorers in the Premier League last April when I interviewed him and he's scored I think it's 20 goals or 21 now maybe.
since that interview, so it's all down to me. Thank you very much. Brilliant. Did he do a Matt Woosnund celebration after the goal? Sadly not, no. He kicked the Pornhub flag, which I think is fair enough. you know, let him off given that that is now his routine. And a routine we've been seeing quite often. That's six goals in his last five games. In Palace's last three away matches, all of which have been two nil wins to Palace, he scored five of the six goals.
From the highlights, it looked quite lively, Matt. What was it like in person? Do you know what? It was the story of Palace's season since their first win against Spurs at home, that was. it's just been like a bit attritional not not in a negative sense it's just been they kept themselves in the game they've worked their way into the game they've stayed solid and then they just got goals from not from nowhere but they just got goals and
It was just that kind of game where they just avoided conceding and did well. And, you know, that's pretty much how it went. So one defeat in eight now for Palace and the return of Adam Wharton as well. What would that mean? Yeah, it's a huge benefit bonus for Palace. Glasner talks about his pre-orientation, which is a great word.
because he can know and see what he's going to do before he gets the ball. And that means that Palace play more quickly. They build the play up quickly. They play it through the lines and they can get that play.
That then helps them to create chances and score goals. And that's what they've been missing. Even though they've scored a decent number of goals this season, they've really missed that. So I think that's a huge benefit. And also he's very good, obviously, at breaking up play and tackling. You know, he's such a good player and they'll really benefit from that. And he played a part in the second goal with an excellent pass. So, you know, it's great sitting back.
There you go. Matt Wisdom, attritional in a positive sense, Palace. That's one defeat in eight. All I have to say about this game, do you two know that Manu started up front? Yeah. Yeah. Jay, why are you laughing like that? I just don't understand why that's the case right it's a ridiculous tactical decision isn't it
Is it? Yes. Okay, tell me why. Well, look, he played well in the week. I watched the game in midweek, and he played as a sort of right-sided number 10, or left-sided number 10, then he moved to the right, and he did pretty well. But he's a central midfielder, okay? And... They've got Xerxes on the bench. They've got Hoyland on the bench. They're letting Rashford go to Villa. What's he thinking? They didn't come on until which minute of the game? But I just think...
Has he just been given licence, Amarim, to just experiment wildly for the whole season and just see what he lands on? Because every game he's doing something new and fresh. And in a way, I like it, but... They're near the bottom of the table. I do like the idea that it's like someone's watched football for the first time and gone.
I've moved that player further forward and he was better. Tell you what I should do. Let's keep moving further forward and he's going to be a world beat. I mean, he just barely touched the ball, Milo, in that role. I mean, he was playing as a kind of false nine. I think the idea was he played as a false nine and they had Diallo and Landers kind of... split strikers to but I mean just obviously it didn't work that's five home defeats in seven from seven home league games yeah lost five of loss
A six at home thing. Yeah, I mean, it's mad. The only exception was Southampton. That was the only team they managed to... to beat it at Old Trafford. Yeah. Liverpool, Spurs, Nottingham Forest, Bournemouth. And most of these have come since Amarim took over. Yeah, so I say, so, I mean, I had a look earlier just for a snide tweet, but, yeah, I think...
You've got all the other managers, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ten Hag, Solskjaer, they all took between 25 and 35 home games to lose five. Mourinho never even got to five in his 46. And Amarillo's on five defeats in seven home games. This can't just... Like we said it before, it was a ludicrous job to take a mid-season and even more ludicrous to be talked into it when he clearly would rather have had a pre-season.
It doesn't mean, like Adrian said, it doesn't just mean you can go, okay, let's roll the die. What are we doing this week? Oh, Bruno Fernandes sent about this week. You can't just keep doing that and hoping. He's consistently getting his starting approach wrong. He's really good, actually.
changing it and influencing the game with his decisions and getting something. I don't know if you're aware of this, but 19 of Manchester United's last 20 goals in all competitions have come in the second half. They scored one goal and it was a penalty. So what that tells you is that he's getting his plans wrong every single game because it... it's taken a while for for them to to come to fruition it's taken a change often to get things right so i think
He can't be given a complete get-out-of-jail card. It's worse than Ten Hag. I'm not saying he is worse than Ten Hag. I'm not saying his best won't ever get past Ten Hag's best. I'm saying now it's worse than it was this season. He's clearly a smart manager. He was brilliant before.
He's not doing a brilliant job, is he? No. In Europe, it's going well. They had a tuna win away at Stalbucharest on Thursday, which means they're four wins out of four in Europe under Amerim, and they are through to the last 16. of the Europa League. They can't meet Spurs until the final.
And beating in Europe as well, although obviously that's partially Ten Hag as well. And partially playing on a Thursday night rather than, say, a Tuesday. Or a Wednesday. I don't know how many teams in that competition are getting the Premier League. In the Europa League? Yeah, like how many are Premier League standard?
Should I run through the... Should I run through the... No, they've played. Well, the top four was Lazio, Athletic Bilbao, Man United. I haven't played them. That's what I'm saying. teams that they've played how many of them have been premier well it's united isn't it um there you go That was Crystal Palace's 2-0 win away at Manchester United. Next up, let's get on to exciting teams like Nottingham Forest and what they did on Saturday.
It's the final week of the transfer window, and that sound you can hear is David Ornstein's phone blowing up. You know, this is a major development and let's see how it goes forward don't miss a beat with the athletic fc podcast listen for free wherever you get your podcasts
This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. Tony Phillips Show's European edition is out on Tuesday afternoon. I'm on the many topics we'll be chatting about.
Milan Derby. You had another Ousmane Dembele hat-trick. You had Real Madrid losing at Espanyol, actually. Loads of stuff, anyway. A shout-out for Heron Veen against Fortuna Sittard. Have you seen this, James? No. So... 1-0 to Heron Wien with six minutes to go, at which point... Heron Wien coach Robin Van Persie notices that Fortuna Sittard have 12 players on the pitch and have had for a minute since a kind of balked substitution. So he kind of loses his mind, rightly so.
one of the players is promptly taken off and a minute later Fortuna's hit up equalised with their 11 men so they didn't even need the 12 and after the game Van Persie is. as angry as you'd think right so yeah they just a sub was made and i think the ref kind of went yeah you go off that side and something and they just it just ended with a situation of 11 outfield players good lord funny good lord just if it's angry angry dutch people or angry dutch
press conferences you're after, have you seen Jordan Henderson's discussion of the failed Monaco move? No. It's not about the details. I'm not giving you details. I know the truth. I know what happened. I'm not here to give you details. I'm just here to tell you from my side. But you say it's not true. Can you give details about the conversation with Alex? No, I don't need to. I don't need to. You can, though. It sounds like you can, anyway.
It is just remarkable the laid-back nature of the iExpress officer who's quietly watching Henderson go toe-to-toe with this journalist Mike. Anyway, enjoy. Enjoy. Adrian, you're going to be dropping another What the EFL podcast. What day is that? Tuesday, normally. Tuesday as well. Busy day. Yeah, thank you for that. 7-0. You've got a 7-0 to talk about Leeds. Yes.
for Ellen Road. Absolute battering, wasn't it? Yeah, they're flying. It's a good way to sort of... bounce back from the horror show that was Burnley 0 Leeds 0 just to remind everyone what a good team they are what a difference yeah now they're a top team and Yeah, no, it's going to be a great race, I think, for promotion at the top end of the championship. But unfortunately, it's going to be... Don't tell us.
Save that for the what the EFL. Yeah, okay. Which teams was Adrian about to say? Find out on Tuesday. Daniel, you're here to talk about another 7-0. Nottingham Forest 7 Brighton 0. What a remarkable thing. A week ago, Forrest beaten 5-0 by another team from the South Coast, beginning with B, this time taking their frustrations out on the...
Next best thing. Only the second time in Premier League history that a team has lost by five or more goals and then immediately won by five or more goals. Yes. What does it say? I think it says that... There are fine margins between teams who are about as good as each other. And if you get something spectacularly wrong... 7-0 doesn't sound like a fine margin. No, but as in... Well, no, but if...
For example, if a manager, let's call him Fabian Herzler, picks a team with five strikers and one central midfielder against a team who really, really likes soaking up pressure and then hitting you on the break. Right. the results may be spectacular. And those results were spectacular. Brighton, it was just, I mean, it was tactical. Was it just...
I mean, that was part of it. Forest were also absolutely brilliant. And the fact that they had lost 5-0 the week before meant they didn't. It was like Arsenal against City. There was no incentive to take the foot off the pedal. It was, right, we're going to make sure this works and we're going to take... full advantage Morgan Gibbs-White that's the best I've ever seen a Forrest player
play a performance in my lifetime. Really? He was absolutely sensational. That is the best performance by a Forrest player you've seen in your lifetime. Absolutely. And bear in mind, we've been pretty rotten for about 25 years in our lifetime. But yeah, it is because he just...
When we signed him, and I know there's a sort of furore about the fee, when we signed him, we thought we were signing a luxury attacking midfielder. What we've actually signed is someone who, the work rate off the ball, Adrian talked about Manchester City off the ball earlier, and there is reported interest. in him from City this summer he is everything off the ball and yet he's spectacular as soon as he gets it he has this ability to
flick from defensive to attacking mode in a beat. Chris Wood scored a hat-trick and was probably Forrest's third best player on the day because Anthony Alanga also got three assists. And, you know, I was speaking to a Manchester United...
fan mate of mine who kind of said yeah that's exactly the sort of winger that we would like and selling him for 15 million to buy Anthony for 85 is one of the worst decisions a club has made in the last decade in the Premier League I think he is brilliant and it's Yeah, it felt like a really significant result because I think outsiders and some Forest fans, me included, wondered if that Bournemouth defeat was a kind of, OK, there's a chance this goes pop slightly.
This eradicates all of that. He responded well, didn't he? Nuno, I thought, to change it. Obviously, you've just been spanked five. I'll go three at the back. I'm just going to give the centre-halves a bit of protection. We haven't got Callum Hudson-Odoi. okay, let's go with two up front then and do something different. And I thought that was tactically very, very good. Langer, obviously.
Has a great chemistry with Wood. Since the start of last season, he's assisted 10 goals for Chris Wood. More than any other combination in the league. It's amazing. So, yeah, I think Nuno was... I was at the game where they beat Southampton 3-2. I interviewed him after and he was basically down. He was a bit fed up because the second half wasn't very good.
And you could see a bit of steel in his eyes or a little bit of worry, actually. It was like, oh, it's the first time I've seen something I don't like for a long time. And obviously that manifested itself in the game at Bournemouth. But they've bounced back. Whatever he said to them, they responded. Element of man management. We know that Nuno is a kind of...
rather than double down working, he's more of a hands off. He gave him days off this week. They're going away to Dubai for a walk, like a very, it feels very late organized.
week off this week in Dubai. They've obviously got Exeter in the Cup next weekend, so they'll probably pick a reserve team in that. The fact they've only got one game a week, I think now Bournemouth feels like they kick up the backside that they needed to stay. You're getting top five, aren't you? I don't want to say anything yet.
We should now get top half, Adrian. That's the main thing. One day, I really want a long read on what happened with Nuno at Spurs. I'm sure I can sort that out for you. Is there a story that's told behind the scenes at Tottenham? I wasn't covering Spurs at the time, so I'm trying to wrap my brain. But I think he started off by winning the manager of the month. Yeah, I think he won his first three, didn't he? I mean, matches, not manager of the month. And then I think...
Obviously Spurs. I feel very strongly that their identity is about, you know, being on the ball, creativity, flair, attacking football, which is... ang postocoglu at the very extreme end of that scale and obviously nuno sort of built his career on having teams that are better out of possession than they are with the ball and that's exactly what forest are so i just don't think that spurs fans
ever accepted that was the style he wanted to play. And also, Nuno was always in a bad position because the Spurs fans knew that he was the fifth or sixth or seventh choice. So... Happy to sacrifice possession. Forrest scored seven times with 37% possession on Saturday. It's fair to say he's found that groove at the city ground. Brighton, by the way, have only won two of their last 12 Premier League matches.
Those came in back-to-back weeks, actually, against Ipswich and Man United. They next faced Chelsea in the FA Cup and then in the league six days later. In this game, they scored a goal. with every 36 successful passes. They did? Yeah. Okay, like Arsenal. Yeah, that's efficient. Is that what you're saying? Arsenal's fifth goal was a sort of ode to Forrest. I'm going to get exactly 36.
A magnificent performance. So, yeah, well done. Well done for that. What a way to bounce back. Also winning in rather more measured style, but still felt pretty significant, were Fulham this weekend. They went to Newcastle in one of the three o'clock kickoffs on Saturday. And 1-2-1, turning it around late on, Magpies had been leading with half an hour to go. And then Raul Jimenez started and finished off the equalizing move. And then Muniz.
With only a couple of minutes to go, I think. I'm not sure what Fulham did. There's a lot of talk of Sander Berg shutting Tonali down. Is that a fair... Was that a bit simplistic? Well, I think the story of the game is about...
Managers using substitutions well. You look at the two, there's three players in the Premier League who have scored more than three goals as a sub this season. One's John Duran, who's not going to trouble that anymore. And the others are Rodrigo Meniz and Harry Wilson, both of Fulham.
Marco Silva is, like Iriola, actually, he's really proactive with his substitutions and they tend to be defining. Whereas Newcastle are the opposite. Newcastle have used 102 subs this season. They scored two goals in those subs. Wow. 102 subs. Is that the worst in terms of goal per star? I think there's a couple on one, but it's down there. And it's the worst of those teams who are up towards the top of the Premier League. And Fulham are the best?
And Bournemouth. Yeah. And how sad after the game, I looked to the bench and didn't really see anything better. And I think there's a... Eddie Howe really trusts the people in the team and he doesn't really rotate his team very often. So then I think that what happens is that players come on and... kind of struggle to make an impact. It doesn't help that Callum Wilson's injured and William Asula is really, really raw. He's not Premier League ready yet. But yeah, there's an issue.
With Newcastle, you can sort of tell after about 20 minutes of the game how the whole game's going to go. And sometimes that's for better because they're brilliant when they're high intensity. But when they're off it... It just doesn't... Teams sense, actually, we've got a chance here because they're not quite at this. It feels like they've become a team that get themselves up for the big games and then for the...
The sort of regulation games, not quite as impactful. They have a big game on Wednesday when they're taking on Arsenal. 2-0 up from the first play game. It looked like a lead that... It was unassailable, really. But I think the fact that they've lost a couple at home since, heavily previously as well, and the fact that Arsenal have just put five past City will give...
This game, you know, slightly new context before the game. But what I've got to say about Eddie Howe is that he normally gets it right against Arsenal. He normally gets it right against Arteta. What do you do to get it right against Arteta?
You make it a horrible game. I was going to say they'll kill the game. They've got 2-0 up after, effectively 2-0 up after a minute, right? So they'll just, you play with a 2-0 lead, don't you? There's going to be a lot of games and shit, a lot of shenanigans. They're going to...
It's going to be stop-start if Newcastle have anything, you know, if they have any control on it. That midfield is going to try and shut down this game. So Arsenal are going to have to play brilliantly to overcome them. But they can.
They can. Of course they can. Spurs, we didn't mention the fact that they were on Thursday playing Liverpool, or we did, but I didn't ask you, Jay, what do you think about their chances? They've got a rather more slenderly, just one goal advantage as they head to Anfield. I think Liverpool will score. So I think it's...
Can Spurs sort of escape with a one-all draw or something like that? I think it's going to be extremely difficult for Spurs to win that actual game. So I sort of feel like the way they'll get to Wembley is if it's like a score draw or something like that. But...
I had a little bit more hope when van der Ven played on Thursday, 45 minutes against Elsborg in the Europa League, but he missed today's game. Now, Possekoglu said that's because they're sort of managing his game time, but I don't know. I don't quite...
by that. Surely if you could, you'd play him 60 minutes against Brentford today and then he's ready for 70, 80, 90 minutes against Liverpool. Just giving him 45 minutes in the Europa League against Ellsborg where you're dominating the ball anyways and then expecting him to do 90 against... Liverpool in the Cup a week later so I think it's going to be extremely tricky for them they've got no Solanke they've got no Brennan Johnson I think Posto Coglu suggested a few players might come back
Madison's out as well. So on Friday he said there's a few players, six, who are a week to 10 days away. Now, do you risk some of those players in the biggest game of your season? You probably do, but whether that's Madison suddenly appears or Johnson suddenly appears, I'm not too sure, but it's going to be very difficult. All right, that's on Thursday night.
Still to come on today's Totally, we're going to touch on events down the bottom of the table where Everton and Wolves won and Saints did too, beating Ipswich. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. It's James Garner who gets the game started. Everton Boyd by back-to-back Premier League wins for the first time all season. And look at this for a star. Oh, they've scored already. Right from kick-off, Abdelai Ducourne.
Everton 4-0 against Leicester. Wolves 2-0 against Villa. And Saints 2-1 away to Ipswich. What do you want to talk about? Leicester. Leicester, is it? Oh, my goodness. The kit. Oh, my goodness. The Leicester kit. The Leicester kit. Yeah. It's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah. But, you know, the people who were wearing it, Adrian. Yeah, I wasn't really taking much notice of the kit. I was taking a lot of notice of...
of their performance. And I have to say it was up there with one of the worst. Really? Certainly the first half. We talked about body language earlier. It was so poor from Leicester. But you don't judge people on body language? I don't judge them on body language individuals, but I do judge teams on body language. And the body language was shocking. You can just tell when a team's not together, when a goal's conceded, because they're all looking at each other.
shrugging their shoulders as if to say, it's not me. They turn their back because they don't want to be associated with that goal, even though we can all see you. That's what happens. And Leicester players were doing it for fun in that game. They've got four chances to do it, I suppose. I mean, talk about...
a lack of protection for the centre-halves. Centre-halves will get a lot of stick here. Vestergaard and Fash. And Vestergaard was the full guy. He got taken off and Acoli came on and he was even worse. Did you see that last goal? What happens with that last goal?
It's just a bit Benny Hill, isn't it? We heard about Nikoli. There's a report in the Telegraph, I think, that said him and Ruud van der Rohe had fallen out because van der Rohe accused him of wearing boots that make him slip over. And Nikoli was like, I'm not having that. Firstly, when stories like that are coming out, when we're hearing about that stuff, it's pretty bad. Then when the managers...
having to then bring on that player. Yeah. It was a mess. Samare had a stinker in midfield alongside Winks. I don't know what happened for that first goal after 10 seconds. Right. Because everyone just left it to each other. Yeah, it was a...
I mean, from an Everton point of view, that was a brilliant goal now. And in classic, you know, your-era Arsenal fashion. Defo, yeah. No, give Everton credit. So this is from kick-off of the game. Yeah. The ball goes back to Pickford, who's set up to Decore, who nobody can... Just charges through. Yeah.
charges through. You know the old classic phrase, you could fit a bus through there? That was the perfect goal for it, wasn't it? Because you literally could fit a bus through the Leicester defence there as Decore stormed through. And they... You look for a response, don't you, to go behind. How are you going to react? Well, they just fell apart. That was the fastest goal in ever since 147 year.
History, 10.18 seconds. Wow. Yeah, three wins in a row now. They were 2-0 up after five minutes. 3-0 up at halftime for the second home game in a row. Beto played brilliantly. David Moyes has already won as many Premier League games for Everton this season as Sean Dyche did. So, James Garner, a word for that James Garner. Oh, that was nice. He was good in the game, wasn't he, James Garner? It was his first game back in a few months as well after injury, right?
Part of the Jed Spence crew. Yeah, of course. The Forest Massive. There you go. But on Rude, I mean, obviously Leicester haven't really done anything in the market. They've signed one player, haven't they? But it's just... i think psr wise yeah they came pretty close anyway if they go down there's clearly questions about dfl sort of stood there rubbing their hands a little bit just wonder what they'll do whether they whether they'll make the change because because because
That team didn't look like playing for the manager, did they, there? One team who are making plenty of moves are Aston Villa, who went to Molineux on Saturday in the tea-time game and lost 2-0. to their sort of neighbours Wolves thus ending their four match losing streak in style and also lifting themselves out of the bottom three Unai Emery he made a quadruple substitution at half time
Had he pulled a hurt Solariot with his starting line-up or what? I don't know. Watkins was injured. Watkins was injured. Where does that leave his prospective move away from Villa Park? I mean, I don't know that. It leaves Villa in an awkward situation because I think they were right to cash in on John Duran, the offer being as handsome as it was. But they're now left in a position where they're sort of making... signings in the final third because they feel they have to Marcus Rashford
Marcus Asensio. Right. Daniel Marlon. But what they need is defenders. They end up playing a central midfielder at centre-back, a debutant right-back who struggled. And that's their lot. There was no one else. ready to step in. I was getting quite excited about Asensio and Rashford but I hear what you're saying. I think they both strike as potentially very good.
pre-summer pre-season signings when you can build a new strike force but you've already got Morgan Rodgers and Watkins who are set I just don't see the value for the money being reported money being spent on wages for
changing everything because it feels like you're now going to have to kind of work on a new system which it's quite hard to do mid-season when you're in Europe I'm staggered that they let Carlos go and then didn't replace him or haven't and I don't know if they've got any intention to do it in the next 24 hours but
Yeah, to have to play Boubacar Kamara, definitely your best central midfielder at centre-half, it's going to hurt you, isn't it? Especially when you've got Bogard, a youngster in midfield. So, yeah, I think that shortfall in defence...
is one of the key reasons why they lost the game. But just on Duran, I completely agree with you that they're right to sell him, but he was 21 years old and I know he signed a new deal just before Christmas, but he wouldn't have been on massive wages. So to then be trying to sign... Rashford, who will be on a lot of money. Asensio, who's 29 and will be on a lot of money.
I don't think that's the smartest thing to do. You've got rid of a talented 21-year-old. You've got Rodgers who's young. I think Watkins has just turned 29. You should more be focusing on who's the next 20, 21, 22-year-old young player that we can get in. Was that what they wanted to do?
but their hand was kind of forced by the fact that, I don't know if this is the club side of things, the way that it's being spun post the deal, but there's a lot of talk that effectively it was impossible to keep him anything like happy in that camp.
This is not a now problem. This is an issue because they spent £30 million on Ian Mattson. He's not really got in the team. They spent £60 million on Anana. And he's a good player, but he's not providing, I don't think, £60 million in midfield when they've already got... Camara and Tielemans and McGinn. So it's a problem of their own making. They had to sell at the price, but it's how you reinvest. The squad building just seems a bit off.
This is Monchi as well. Monchi's the sort of famed genius of a director of football, isn't he? I think his reputation's taken a bit of a knock with his recent appointments. Yeah, so true. So true. Very good. Switch lost at home to Southampton. That's their fourth defeat in a row, but how damaging must that be, Jay? Yeah, that stings. You'd think that that would be a game, especially because Wolves won and Everton have won.
That's a game that they would have had penciled in as, because it was at home as well. They went 1-0 down. Liam Dalatlem scores a pretty decent finish. It's the type of game that you need to be winning if you want to have any chance of staying up and you worry a little bit when they're... suffering results like that. I was looking at the comparison between Ipswich and Luton. They both sort of feel similar in that they've been given, and Luton took...
15 points in their first 19 games and everyone was like well that's a platform Ipswich took 15 points in their first 19 games and everyone went that's a platform they've since lost four in a row and it just looks like McKenna's
They're not even that much fun anymore. Like they were kind of expressive and progressive and trying to score goals and just getting a bit caught out. Now they just look like quite a bad football team. And the difference between those two clubs, they spent a hundred and...
30 million this season, Ipswich. You know, they've gone for it. How much of that went on? Was Mouric with them before? I was just about to say Mouric, actually. It doesn't matter how much they spent. Because Mouric was not a good goalkeeper at... Burnley last season and he was I can't remember what game specifically but I remember him making mistakes playing out I remember him making mistakes playing out from the back last season so why Ipswich fought
we should get this guy and get him to play out from the back at Premier League. But he was dropped and he brought back in, wasn't he? Yeah, it does seem like promoted clubs, for some reason, are they trying to skip the stage of playing like promoted clubs?
Southampton at the weekend win because they've got massive Onuatu. They're lobbing boards into the box. He's winning the headers. They're getting set pieces. It's like, I think he won 16 aerial duels on Onuatu. It's like, that's how you do it. Like, just sit deeper and just knock it to him. for a few years and when you spoke to their coaching staff and they look back they all say that the season they got promoted to the Premier League the biggest thing they focused on
was the defence. And it was all about playing in that 3-5-2 system, long balls to Tony, capitalising on set pieces, etc. Now when you look at them, they play out from the back loads more. So they built that foundation over two free seasons in the Premier League. signed better players, improved, and then started trying to play that way. Whereas, like you said, a lot of teams now are just trying to go straight to the top. All right. Saints, who are still very much on the bottom.
We should probably celebrate this rare victory for them and also give a little bit of love to Wolves, who I kind of skipped by with my Asavilla transfer. Yeah, it was a good performance, wasn't it, from them? Yeah, it was a good performance from Wolves and from Southampton, who were actually brilliant in that second half that I saw at Forest, you know.
So, you know, signs of life definitely for them. Yeah, excellent. Just on Ipsos very quickly, I think De Lapp, they've just been too reliant on De Lapp. Obviously, you can criticise them defensively because they've leaked too many goals. They haven't got enough Premier League experience at the back.
but I think De Lappe's been responsible for 41% of their goals. You've got to spread the love, haven't you? You've got to have more than just him, really. I expected them to score a lot more goals Ipswich this season because they were... Pretty swashbuckling, weren't they, in the championship?
And they've lost that pizzazz, haven't they? It's such an obvious thing to say, but it's so much harder in the Premier League. You can't just come up and be like, well, this got us up, so let's keep trying this. You have to, you know, Forrest came up and were like, right, we're going to play deep and horrible football.
Steve Cooper's going to, you know, grind it out. You can't skip that stage very easily because you can spend £130 million now, as Ipswich have done, and your team still defensively looks like a championship team. Yeah. Brentford did it.
Didn't they? Forest did it. Burnley didn't do it. Burnley didn't do it. You also have to be a bit brutal and say, it's fantastic that these players got me promoted to the Premier League, but maybe they're not going to be the players that keep me in the Premier League. And if you look through their team... Oshay and Muric have come from Burnley. You both got relegated last season. Jacob Grieves, who's very good, but he was playing in the championship. Exactly. It's fantastic that you do that.
how far is it going to get you I wonder if part of it is having it depends which manager you've got if you've got a manager who is very much on the path to potentially improving. We saw what happened with company. I think Kieran McKenna is a guy who has done a fantastic job at Ipswich, but they want to be seen to be playing their way. And therefore that sometimes overrides the...
the practical need of the situation. But what I will say, even though you look at this, you think this is a disaster. They've lost at home to Southampton. This is a complete waste of a game. They're going down. The truth is, there's a great battle.
Because Wolves aren't away from them. Yeah, they're only three points ahead. There's everything to play for. So they can turn it around. So can Leicester, as bad as they've been. So, yeah, look, it's fun and games. They've just got to hope that Wolves don't go on.
an Everton style run otherwise then it really is done Everton who have now moved themselves nine points clear of the bottom three with a game in hand asterisk against Liverpool very good Chelsea and West Ham go on Monday night we'll be reacting to that Probably a bit on Thursday when we'll also be taking in the Newcastle Arsenal, Carabao Cup second leg. For that, there's the European show on Tuesday. Our last one featuring James Horncastle for a while.
Because he's got to finish his book. Spent the advance, now he's got to write the thing. That's conjecture on my part. Yeah, anyway, do join us for that on Tuesday. Many, many thanks, Jay. My absolute pleasure. Thank you. How was Adrian? Pleasure. What a day. What a day. I've had fun. Magnificent. And you too, Daniel. Lovely to see you again here in the studio. And to producer Charlie, of course. Listener, thank you so much for your company. We'll catch up with you soon. For now, it's goodbye.
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