Silmarillion 2025 » Ch 10 » Of the Sindar

since their brethren departed Bellerion for the Blessed Realm. Over the next several months, will continue revisiting the entire thirty episode Silmarillion series that Greta and I recorded back in twenty twenty two. While you're listening, check out Silmguide dot com. That's si lmguide dot com for guides to individual chapters. You can find that link in the show notes. To support our work here, please visit Patreon dot com slash Tolkien Road Enjoy. Hey there, fellow travelers, Welcome to the

Tolkien Road. Episode two eighty nine. Greta, Hey, we meet again.

com slash Tolkien Road. If you're on YouTube, hit that like button and don't forget to subscribe and let us know what's on your mind and the comments below. All right, And hey, Greta, we gotta I forgot to ask you about this before we started. Can we do live stream on Thursday April twenty eighth, Thursday this week? Next week?

All right, let's let's hit this quote of the week, shall we. All right, but if bliss and glad life, there is little to be said before it ends as works fair and wonderful. While they still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they were in peril or broken forever do they pass into song. That that quote really jumped out at me

from this chapter. It kind of encapsulates the uh, you know, the idea that this this area of Balarion had its own long age of peace, if you will, And really there's not a whole lot that Tolkien has to say about that other than just like it was really peaceful for a long time, but it doesn't seem to last forever.

writing it down. Yeah, that's when things are hard and when and when things start to go south, that that that that's when you start to to remember the good times.

In chapter ten, we'll learn of the Sendar, the brethren of the Tilary that remained behind in BALARIOND, of the creation of Minnagroth, the grand palace of the sendaran king thingle of the coming of the dwarves to BEALERIOND of the nandorinolves of the return of Melcor to Middle Earth in the first Great Battle of BELLERIOND and much more

so luck going on in this chapter. Again, Yeah, just a disclaimer, as with each episode, we won't be covering every detail of this chapter, but instead doing our best to hit the high points and unpack interesting and important details. If we miss something, you guys want to discuss more, let us know. Great place to do that to keep the conversation going is in the comments on YouTube. So all right, So, as I've been doing, we're talking about I'm trying to give a timeline for for each of

the chapters in the Selm Million. So far, I've been using History of middle Earth Chapter ten to do that, and actually this week and really going forward, we're gonna be using History of Middle Earth Chapter eleven, The War of the Jewels to do that. And the reason for that is is that chapter ten or volume ten, really focuses on the stories of the Blessed Realm, almost like

the first half of the Summarllion. It really focuses on that first half of the Sulm Million and the timeline there in the development of those stories after Lord of the Rings, and then volume eleven focuses on the development of the second half of the Selm million after the Lord of the Rings. So and you know, we kind of think about that as like volume ten is focused on the Blessed Realm, Volume eleven is focused on Valerion, right. So the dividing line between chapters ten or Volumes ten

and eleven History of Middle Earth is the Great Sea. So, uh, timeline, where what are the years? And can we kind of compare them to the timeline that we've been using from volume ten, And the answer is yes, we can compare them. So really this takes place between the Year of the Trees twelve hundred and fourteen ninety seven, so a very long two hundred and ninety seven tree year period, which equates to twenty nine hundred and seventy years sun years, right,

as we would reckon them. So and just to kind of frame that again, Melcor goes into captivity in the year eleven hundred, Year of the Trees eleven hundred, right. He's taken into captivity roughly around the years of the year eleven hundred, and his captivity lasts for three ages, which an age is one hundred year tree years, right, So it lasts from eleven hundred to fourteen hundred of the years of the Trees. We pick up the story

here in the year twelve hundred years of the Trees. Okay, so the elves had become had begun to make their journey to the Blessed Realm between eleven hundred and twelve hundred, all right, of the years of the Trees. During that period is when Thingle goes into his trance, when he sees Melion, right, he goes into his trance and he doesn't actually come out of it until until it's like

a twenty year period something like that. That he that he's in that twenty three year period, so it's actually two undred years, and he comes out of that, and then he starts to lead the Sindar, right, those those of the elves who remain behind. But let's dive into just the story of the Sindar here, all right, just a quick quick summary, just to refamiliarize ourselves with who the Cindar actually are. Gota, would you read this sure now?

the gray elves of Starlit Bellarion. And although they were more Quindi, under the lordship of Fingal and the teaching of Melion, they became the fairs and the most wise and skillful of all the elves of Middle Earth.

lot because they have Melon as their queen. Right, so they actually have a who's my Mayar as their queen, And that's a you know, that's that's a great opportunity. They may not know, they may not become as knowledgeable as the elves of the blessed realm. But they become pretty knowledgeable, you know, as compared to the elves that never you know, that never made it over the Blue Mountains. All right. And by the way, just we'll get more

into the geography of Bellerion. But just so you guys understand, if you look at the map of Bellerion in the Sellmarillion, it's in the front of the back. Can I remember it's in the back. Yeah. If you look at the map, basically, the Blue Mountains on the very east right, that's the same Blue mountain range that's in the upper northwest of Middle Earth and the Third Age, and that's kind of the dividing line to the east for Bellerion. All right.

So to the to the east of the arid luin of the Blue Mountains, the terrain starts to become a lot more familiar. We recognize a lot more things from the Lord of the Rings and from the Hobbit, right, we'll actually hear about some of the those things in passing reference in this chapter. Some of those areas. Yeah, so that is that's who the Sendar are. And then let's read let's read of the Coming of the Dwarves, and the dwarves come along in the year of the

Trees twelve to fifty. They come to Bealerion in the year twelve fifty. So again this is like basically fifteen hundred years of sun years after Melkor went into captivity, right, so a long period has elapsed since then, all right, It came to pass during the second age of the captivity of Melchor that dwarves came over the blue mountains of arid Lun into belleriond themselves they named Kazad, but

the Sendar called them Nalgrim. The stunted people and Gonhiram, masters of stone far to the east, were the most ancient dwellings of the Nalgrim. But they had delved for themselves great halls and mansions after the manner of their kind in the eastern side of eded Lun, and those cities were named in their own tongue Gabielgathol, and too Mounzahar.

To the north of the great height of Mount Dolmed was Gabielgathol, which the elves interpreted in their tongue Belagost, that is Mickelberg, and southward was delved to moun Zahar by the elves named Nograd, the Hollowbold. Greatest of all the mansions of the dwarves was Kasadum, the Dwarro delf Har Hondrond in the Elvish tongue, that was afterwards, in

the days of its darkness, called Moria. But it was far off from the mountains of myst beyond the wide leagues of Riador, and to the Eldar came but as a name and a rumor from the words of the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains.

But it's been around since the earliest you know, really really going way back into the early first Age, right, So we don't get a lot more information about it here in the Silmarillion, but we do know that exists at this time, and we have reference to the Mountains of Myss, the Misty Mountains, we have reference to Ariador, and you know, so these regions all do exist, it's just they're not in focus during this During the Selm.

thought only humans lived here, you know. Yeah, So I think it must have been really like a kind of surreal for both the dwarves and the elves because they each were kind of insular before this, and then all of a sudden than their world's collide. And I think it's awesome how and we'll get into this in a minute, but they like get along really well. They like they you know, they seem to compliment each other, you know, and seem to work together.

interesting to think about. But basically, there's like this idea that as you go from like the most like basic robot all the way to like increasingly complex humanoid like kind of looking things right all the way to like what a like, like what a normal human being, it's

it's actually a normal human being. There's like this spectrum where you know, it's like, oh, cute, cute, cute, and then you hit this point where it's so close to humanity but you can tell it's not actually human, and but it's it's like close enough to where you're like, uh, not cool, right, And it's that's called the uncanny valley.

So it's like, you know, it's like oh, like you know, uh, you know, Robbie the robot little like obviously not a human, right, you know, like Teddy Bear, right, you know, like obviously not human, obviously not Wait is that human? It doesn't look human, but it kind of looks human or I don't like it, right, And it gets close and it's like there's like these negative emotions that are associated with

like negative reactions associated with it. So it's like this weird effect where it goes it's like too close for.

both with dwarves and with men. Right, you know, there's with dwarves there's maybe more of that effect because they were you know, they're they're like the they call them the stunted people, right people, and they're like, wait a minute, you just don't look right, you know, and you know it's like the elves already have enough of a superiority complex, I'm sure, but you know, they meet the dwarves and they're like, you know, well, we're obviously so much more

beautiful than you, and your language is weird and all this kind of stuff, right, And then you know, men come along and there's a whole nother thing because men maybe look even more like elves than dwarves do. So anyway, that just your comments there, maybe maybe think of the Uncanny Valley here. Yeah, so I'll have to remember to put that into the show notes.

empty it feels like an empty body, you know. And and there's it's obviously you know, been a lot of like makeup and that kind of stuff done and there's

probably been fluids put in there. I don't know. I'm not in you know, I don't do all of that work, so I don't know what goes on with that, but I know there's some things that they have to do to make the body look presentable, right, And and so they actually point that out on this little graph here, like corpse is like the bottom point of the Uncanny valley, right, So anyway, you know, that's that's kind of so I would think like with dwarves there may be that effect

even more like huge, Like men might look close enough to elves that it's almost like indistinguishable, right, especially men in the prime of their life, right, But dwarves it's like, you know, at least the depictions that we normally see of dwarves in Middle Earth, they're kind of funny looking compared to elves and men, right. So anyway, and.

on the uncanny. So it's like Dwarves would be like maybe like coming back up from corpse, but still maybe a little bit of a negative, and then Orcs would be like all the way down where Zombie is.

Beyond the gates, wide passages ran down to high halls and chambers far below that were hewn in the living stone, so many and so great, that the dwelling was named Menegroth the thousand caves. So Melion tells Thingle, Look, this piece isn't going to last for ever, right, And I know it's you know, we've had fifteen hundred years of peace at this point, but it's time to get you know, we need to prepare for the worst. Right, something is

going to happen. Something always happens. So Thingles wise and he says, well, I better listen to Melion, because not only is she really beautiful, but she's also really smart. And so he decides to build this. He decides to build this cave with the help of the dwarves, and so they delve the Menigroth thee thousand caves, and that is the really that's kind of the center of thingles kingdom, right, that's that's the place from which he rules.

where we left off in terms of time. And the last chapter all right, and then it's not too long after that that evil does in fact return to Belleriond. All right, but it's not quite it's not quite melcor slash Morgoth yet, right, but it is uh. It is going to be some of his works. So Greta, would you read this first chapter here, and I'll read this first paragraph. I read the second paragraph.

awaiting the return of their lord. Whence they came, or what they were, the elves knew not then, thinking them perhaps to be Avari, who had become evil and savage in the wild in which they guessed all too near.

It is said. So, you know, we'll recall that Melchor had his prime, his prime abode in Autumno, which was at the north kind of in the north center of this mainland mass of Middle Earth, right, and that was you know, the the dungeons of it were like kind of thrown up when the when the Valar came and they did battle with Melcor and took him captive, they kind of un you know, unearthed everything and like you know,

just you know, just destroyed Autumno. Right, But all these like creatures that Melcor had made a lot of them maybe got away and they started to multiply again. And you give him enough time and there's gonna be a

lot more of them. Right. So there they start coming back really in the you know, to the east, right to the east of the Blue Mountains, and they start harassing the elves that are still over there, they start harassing other good creatures that are over there, and and then eventually they make their way back into Balion, right and uh, and then you've also got Enband read there, right, which was where once upon a time, uh, Suron was

kind of was kind of ruling. And you know, is the is Melcor slash Morgs chief lieutenant right now, we don't hear anything about Saron in this chapter, but you know, one wonders if maybe he was behind some of this, right, So, you know, he's just waiting for more Goth to return, and you know, he's kind of doing what evil he can while, you know, while more Goth is gone. So

we do get this reference. We get this reference to the elves not knowing where the Orcs had come from, thinking that perhaps to be a votery who had become evil and savage in the wild in which they guessed all too near. Right, so of their brethren elves who had stayed much further behind, wondering if these were where the Orcs came from. So again another reference to the Orcs being you know, at least the original Orcs being elves that were corrupted, right, captured by Melcor and corrupted

and turned into these kind of fell creatures. So, but the good news is that Thingles company is armed by the Dwarves. They they get weapons from the Dwarves, they learn how to use these weapons, and they drive off these creatures of evil. Right so they you know, hear the year thirteen thirty, of the Year of the Trees.

They secure a peace once again, even though it looks a little perilous for a bit there, they secure peace once again for this region of Bellerion by driving off these these evil creatures thanks to the Warve's help, thanks to the Dwarf's help. That's right, that's right.

of and that takes place in the Blessed Realm. You know, there aren't weapons in the Blessed Realm until towards the end, right until towards the end, and the Old Door start creating weapons, right, So, so then Old Door do learn start to learn weaponry and learn the art of warfare, and then the Sindar learn the art of warfare as well,

right here in this kingdom. So but you know, it's a good thing that Thingle does learn this because he needs to protect the Sindar, right, he needs to protect his people in his region and make it this realm of peace, all right, all right, Then next we learn about the coming of the non Door, all right. So just to give you a little perspective again here on the non Door, we can go to our our groups of elves table right in the appendices, and the very last table here we look at the Quindi and the

non Door are descended from the Tillary. They're actually a part of the Tillarry, but they left off from the Tillarry even earlier than the Sendar did. Right, So the non Door left off around the River Onduin, right, the great river Okay, the River Ondoin of course, being the one that plays a major part in the Lord of the Rings. Right, it's the river that runs through between

the Misty Mountains on the east. It has the Misty Mountains on the west side of it, and then Mirkwood on the east side of it, right, And it runs down all the way through the through that continent pass through Asgiliath, right and and it's the river that the Fellowship journeys on after it leaves, after it leaves Lethalorian. All right, So this is you know, the Great River. It's the very same river right that we are going

to read about right here, m all right. So Greta, could you read this passage right here?

and they're dwelt by the sea. And yet others, passing by iRED Nimras the White Mountains, came north again and entered the wilderness of Ariador, between rid Lewin and the far mountains of Myst. Now, these were a woodland people and had no weapons of steel. And the coming of the fell beasts of the north filled them with great fear,

as the Nagurum declared to King Thingle and Menegroth. Therefore Denethor, the son of Lenwe, hearing rumor of the might of Thingal and his majesty and of the peace of his realm, gathered such hosts of his scattered people as he could, and led them over the mountains into baleriand there they welcomed. Then there they were welcomed by Thingle as king long as Kin long lost that return, and they dwelt in osiriand the land of seven Rivers.

was named with respect to this Denethor. I'm not sure, but you'll see certain names pop up more than once and being used by certain characters more than once, which is normal. I mean we do that in our world, right, So that is not the same Denethor. This is the this is the son of the leader of the Nondor,

right of this group of velves that broke off. And so this group of elves had broken off on that journey many you know, many many many years ago, right, and and they had dwelt in really our Ariador, right in that region where we think of as being the

home of like the Hobbits. Right, So, Greta, here's the third Age map, right, Ariador right there, shires right here, So Bellarion is over here somewhere, okay, where it's now underwater in the third Age, right, And then the non Door would have dwelt in this region right between the blue mountains on the west and the misty mountains on

the east. And they start having problems and they're like, let's go see if we can find the rest of our kin, and they it's how they get into Blarion and they're welcomed by Thingle.

Melkor slash Morgoth returns to Blarion. All right, but that is a one hundred and forty five tree year period, which means it is and fifty years. So that's a long period of time again, right, fourteen you know, and fifty years ago from right now would have been like around the year five hundred, right, roughly the year late the late five hundreds, right. You think about how much time has elapsed in our own history, how much happened

in that period of time in our own history. You realize how long a period of time that actually is, that they have this period of bliss. Okay, so we don't know much about that. One would resume that lots of things happened during that period that we just aren't big enough for us to have heard about with the

grand arc of this story. But there you have it, all right, And so we jump forward, way forward, and we hear about the return of Angoliant, and we hear about the return of melkor slash more Goth, who really will just start referring to as more Goth more Goth to Bellerion along with Emgoliant right where we left off with them. They had big fight, the Balrogs had to come to Morgo's rescue, and he had that terrible scream which like filled the whole continent of Bellerion with like terror.

And we hear about that here. Okay, I'm not going to rehash all of that, because we did talk about it in the last chapter, kind of rehashes it in the chapter here, but let's read about what happened. We do learn a little bit more about what happened with Angolian. So, Greta, do you want to read about this right here.

they're all waters were poisoned. Yeah, I don't want.

it's like split between two pages. But in the middle you've got the anfaluglyth uh kind of this open space at the top on bond is to the north of that right on band is just I don't know why they didn't put on Bond on this map, but it's to the north of that. And then you've got this uh Tar new Tar new fuin right, and then Non

Non dune Go THEB and the arid Gorgoroth right. So these mountains that Angolian goes and twells in are on the you can kind of see them between where it says Tarnu Fuen Dorthonion and non dune gor THEB right there in the middle, and it says arid Gorgoroth, So that would have been the mountains where she took up her abode for some period of time, the mountains of Terror.

And then you can look a little further south from there and you'll see the region that is the center of Thingles kingdom, which we're going to read about next, which is Dorioth, and that is that is the location of Menogroth. Although I'm trying to find Menogroth on this map. Well it's is it there, don't know? Yeah, And sometimes again sometimes they do these weird things with this map where they don't mark the most important things that you want to know, where they are go figure. Oh yeah,

there it is, I see it. So it's right here above the A and Dorioths, yes, right, or above the T in Dorioth, it says Menigroth right there. Yes, yeah, So all right, well let's read about the So after Angolian goes there, Melcor returns to his throne, and then it's it's not very long. It's only basically two tree years, so basically about twenty years from when more Goth takes up his abode in Ubond to when he declares war

on Valarion. Right, so he's ready to get back. He's ready to get back into the action against against any elves he can find.

the story. Right, Whereas she has been swelling with all this, like consuming all this light, right, you know, the light of the two trees. She's been swelling more and more, right with this, with this strange energy. But Melion has not, you know, she has not been doing you know, she has not been pouring her life's energy into all these different things like more Goth has. Also, she uses different tactics, right.

I mean, she's not like going and doing war with Ungoliant directly, but she's using a certain a certain different kind of skill right to keep Ungoliant at bay, right, So yeah, I mean it doesn't give us a lot of detail on that, but you know, she is using her own, her own set of skills, her own brand of magic, if you will, to keep Onngolient at a distance.

Thence thence on a sudden a great army came into Balerion, and as sailed King Thingal now in his wide realm, many elves wandered free in the wild or dwelt at peace, and small kindreds farsundered, and only about Menagroth in the midst of the land, and along the Phalas and the country of the Mariners were their numerous peoples. But the Orcs came down upon either side of Menagroth, and from camps in the east between Ceylon and Ceylon and Gelan,

and west in the plains between Syrion and Nargog. They plundered far and wide, and Thingal was cut off from Kirdan at Elglarest. Therefore he called upon Denethor, and the elves came in force from region, from region region beyond us, and from Osyriond, and fought the first battle in the Wars of Belleriond in the eastern hosts of the Orcs, was taken between the armies of the Eldar north of

the Androm and midway between Us and Gelian. And they and there they were utterly defeated, and those that fled north from the great Slaughter were waylaid by the axes of the Nogrim that issued from Mount Dolmed. Few indeed returned to enband, but the.

him ever after and took no king again. After the battle, some returned to Osyriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth and open war, but kept themselves by wariness and secrecy. And they were called the Laya Quindi the green elves, because of their raiment and the color of the leaves. But many went north and entered the guarded realm of Thingal and were merged with his people, all right, so kind of the kind of a sad

end to the remainder of the nondor there. Some of them do join with the people of Thingal, some of them kind of become this like just remnant that live in the woods, and they're kind of this strange, strange

group of elves. Right, But you know, very big first Battle of BALERIOND and it's you know, we get carried on and his people driven all the way to the shores, and and you know, kind of a victory maybe on the eastern front, but you know, a stalemate, a loss, with a little bit of a stalemate on the western front, right, And this is all taking place in the year fourteen

ninety seven, of the Year of the Trees. By the way, the distance it does say the distance between Agbond and Menigroth in the War of the Jewels, it's actually one hundred and fifty leagues, which if I understand the league correctly, is a league is one league is three miles, So it's four hundred and fifty miles from Angbond to Menigroth.

So it's not super close, right, And you've got that big mountain ranges in the middle that nobody wants to go through because Angolian and her offspring live there, So they're coming down on either side of that mountain range. And those are the two different sorts of sorts of fronts there. But yeah, and so after this, and you.

of Neldorus and region. And Meleon put forth her power and fenced all that dominion round about him with an unseen wall of shadow and bewilderment, the Girdle of Melion, that none thereafter could pass against her will or the will of King Fingal, unless one should come with a power greater than that of Melion. The Maya, and this inner land, which was long named Eglador, was after called Dorioth,

the Guarded kingdom land of the Girdle. Within it there was yet a watchful peace, but without there was peril and great fear. And the servants of more Goth roamed at will save in the wald havens of the Phallus. All right, So yeah, it describes Meleon's power as fint is unseen wall of shadow and bewilderment, right as she fences this area of Dorioth with this unseen wall of

shadow and bewilderment. So yeah, something like you know, maybe what we saw on that in WandaVision right with that, you know, this kind of like invisible dome, invisible dome put over this town, right, maybe it's like an electric fence. Yeah, well, you know, I think something more graceful, probably that Milon's doing an electric fence.

younger at this point. So so yeah, that's the that's the story of the Sindar before the return of the noldor to Bealerion, right, and the Cindar thingle Melion. They will all play a very big role in the rest of the Selmer Million. Okay, so uh that's you know, that's where we leave off with this chapter. One other thing I'll say is that the next two chapters they're a bit more stage setting before the action really picks

up again in chapter thirteen. Now they're not super long chapters eleven and twelve, but they we've gone from having a few chapters now of like a lot of action after a lot of stage setting. There's still more, say stage setting that has to happen because we're back in Balerion now, right, and there's some big changes that are happening to the world, right, So we're gonna get We're gonna get some stage setting in chapters eleven and twelve.

It it's interesting stuff, don't get me wrong, it's interesting stuff, but we're not actually gonna get back to really the action of the Noldor and the Sindar until chapter thirteen. Chapter thirteen, and then pretty much a lot of action from then on, right, So a lot of action from then on. So that's the nature of the Silm Million, right. Sometimes there's a lot of stage setting and sometimes there's a lot of action.

seven years after, in the later reckoning of time. So it's like in that year of the Tree, but it's in, you know, within the peer of that one year of the Tree. It's like seven years later, fan Or came oversea in his white ships of the Tillery and landed in the in the Firth of Drinkist and there burned the ships at low Scar.

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