Hey there, fellow travelers. Welcome to the Tolkien Road, episode 396. In this episode, we shall review War of the Rohirrim, the newly released animated Middle-earth film from executive producer Peter Jackson. Greta, there you are. Here I is. Hi, guys. It's good to be back. All right, all right. It is good to be back. Thanks for having me, I, have kind of been away for a little while. Yeah, so it's like a double reunion. It is a double reunion. Nice. a joyful one at that.
Before we begin, we'd like to give a double up air five to our amazing fellowship. Stick up fellowship. 3, 2, 1, whoopsh! Very nice. Yes. nice. Special thanks to this episode's executive producers, Caitlin T. with Tolkien, John R., KG, and Arendelle Hope. Alright, well I have to be honest. The first two seasons of The Rings of Power were so painfully bad that I was not feeling enthusiastic about the War of the Rohirrim. going into seeing it last night.
The one spark of hope that I felt was the knowledge that it had Peter Jackson as an executive producer and that it had nothing to do with Amazon Studios. I stayed away from the marketing and from others' thoughts and opinions, hoping to go into it with as much fresh perspective as I could garner. As for Greta, I don't even think you knew about it until I had mentioned it to you like a couple of days ago that we were gonna go see it. True, yeah.
feel like I remembered you mentioning that it was in the works, like. a long time ago, but I had no idea that it was out. had been in the works for a long time. Anyway, we can talk about all that maybe later on, but let's just start. We went to see it last night. Let's just start with immediate reactions. Greta, what do want to say about immediate reactions? Immediate reactions. I was honestly blown away.
Like it was, I told John, was not, I wouldn't say I was dreading going to see it, but I was not like, my gosh, I'm so excited to go see this movie. I was very skeptical of anime and Tolkien. Like I wasn't quite sure that anime was going to be the right medium for a like I was just like, how is this going to work? Is it even going to work? But I will say I made a conscious decision at the beginning of the movie to just give myself over to it.
I'm like, I'm just gonna suspend like all knowledge of reality and I'm just gonna enter into the story and I'm just going to just, you know, allow myself to be overtaken by it. And I thought it was awesome. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting you mentioned that whole concept of suspension of disbelief because of course that's in juxtaposition to the whole idea of enchantment that Tolkien talks about within On Fairy Stories.
And the word I was gonna use is, I found it enchanting in the Tolkienian sense, right? So that's about the best compliment you could pay to it. As I mentioned, I feel like I've been dealing with a little bit of, this sounds really dramatic, but I'll be honest, I feel like I was dealing with a little bit of low grade PTSD from. Like what a disaster I feel like the Rings of Power was, been for the first two seasons. I didn't even finish season two, right? I was just so like, this just sucks.
I was like, I don't know, the last few months have been a little tough from a perspective of like, I needed to take a break. I needed to take a step back from like churning out content based on, you know, my reaction to things involving Tolkien, which I hate, which I hate that I had to do that. But seeing this, I was totally enchanted by it in the theater.
did not like, I didn't like, I hear you having to like do the, like decide that you're gonna give yourself over to it at the beginning and that's good. Like, you know, you should, that's, but you're basically saying you wanted to give it a fair shake. You wanna go in and be like, you know, but did you find yourself like constantly having to do that once you? Yeah, see, that's the thing, right? So that's enchantment, right?
When you are sitting in, a movie theater or reading a book and you don't find yourself having to be like, like kind of cringing and being like, I don't know, that's kind of, you know, and then kind of be like, well, I guess I'll just continue watching, you know, like it's, you want to enter into that state where it's almost like, it's almost like hypnotic, right? You're just like, you're just like, am engrossed in this story. I'm engrossed in this world.
And I know, I know a good story, whether it's in a book or a film or whatever, right? I know something is good when I'm just like, even music, right? I know something is good when I just, I don't have to like will myself to accept it, right? When it's just like, yes. you your whole like, your whole being just says yes to it, right? I found that I was having that kind of visceral enjoyment throughout the whole movie. And I don't know if I can pay it any higher of a compliment.
I just feel like it does justice to this kind of little bit of a story that's laid out within the appendices of the Lord of the Rings. think they knocked it out of the park. And that's as much a testament to the storytelling itself as it is to just the visuals and the music and everything. was a complete experience as far as I'm concerned. There was nothing corny or cheesy about it as a cartoon, right?
You know, it was like what I, I've said before in the past that I thought the future of Tolkien, telling a middle earth storytelling was actually like high quality anime, right? I thought it fit most with the kind of aesthetic philosophy that I get from reading Tolkien. I thought it made the most sense and I thought they captured it like really well within that film. So yeah, I just had this like. intense, visceral enjoyment, I mean, it's great. Like I don't get that from stories often.
Like get that. certain TV shows where I've gotten that. And I know when I feel that because I'm like, I just want to keep watching. just want to keep watching. just want to keep watching. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. No, I completely agree with everything you said. did. was. Yeah, I did not. I was. I did not have to make that con like I was just completely engulfed in the story.
I haven't noticed like at one point I was like sitting in like this really like awkward position, but I was like, I didn't even want to move. I was just like, just everything. I was sure you turned sideways in the giant chair and your feet up on the chair next to you. Yeah, I was actually like it was kind of a full theater, but it was not sold out by any means. So yeah, we had plenty of space. But yeah, I was kind of like. turned and had my feet propped.
I remember noticing at one point, like, my legs are at a weird angle. But I was like, whatever. Back to the story. But I thought it was beautiful. And I think I told you last night, it felt totally Tolkienian. dialogue, the music, just the vibe. It was totally like Middle Earth through and through. Yeah, I give it 11 out of 10 stars. It was awesome.
Yeah, I... was just, I don't know, I had a thought there that I kinda lost for a second, it'll come back to me in a moment, but yeah, was completely engrossed in it. think the one big fear I had going in was I knew, I didn't pay much attention to the market, I didn't watch any of the trailers or anything like that, but I knew that they had kind of promoted this nameless character of Helm's daughter. to the basically main character of the story.
And when I heard that, I was very apprehensive because I was like, no, are they gonna girl boss this? you know, are they gonna like, I'm just so, I'm, you know, look, I don't care. I don't care what you think. I'm just so over the girl bossing stories thing, right? Like there is a, there is a absolutely a place for strong female characters in storytelling, but the girl bossing has got to stop. It's just, it's just dumb. And And I was worried that they were going to do that to the story, right?
But I'm delighted to say that I don't, I don't think that's what they did. I think they, I think they took this character who was, you know, kind of a background character, a nameless background character. And they recognize that like to make this a more relatable story, we need to have a character that is not, you know, just the, the, hardcore warrior guy, you know, but it's like, you know, it's kind of that thing that makes the hobbits so genius, right? It's like they're more relatable.
There's a weakness to them, but there's also like a sense in which they are going on the hero's journey themselves. And I thought what they did was they actually did a great job of taking how Tolkien wrote a lot of his best female characters and they incorporated a lot of that into who she was. She was not some kind of like, you know, warrior who, know, she doesn't look anything like a warrior. And then it's like, turns out that she's the greatest warrior of all, and nobody, nobody can beat her.
Even the biggest, you know, strongest warrior. was like she was vulnerable and she was, and she was weak at times, but she was also a strong character. And, and I was just really thrilled that they did that very well. thought. No, I agree. I had the same, again, I knew nothing about it going into it. And like with the opening scene where it starts introducing her. I was like, great, here we go again. Here's a repeat of what they did with Galadriel in the Amazon series.
And I was like, no, please no. But I realized pretty quickly that that was not gonna be the case. yeah, I thought she was very relatable, but also a very strong character. And I mentioned to you already, she was very reminiscent to me of like how Eowyn was portrayed in Lord of the Rings. Like just that very strong female character, but also like vulnerable and beautiful.
Yeah. And and like because because I feel like they did a pretty good job of staying like staying true, like telling the story basically as Tolkien laid it out. within, know, within the appendices because they did that. Like I was able to just like, like when I saw them being like, okay, yep, they, they got that right. They got that right. They got that right. Like I was like, okay, I can let down my guard. It was like they were building.
It was like they were building trust with me as a, as a hardcore Tolkien fan, you know, instead of being like, hold on, you think you know, Tolkien, we know, actually we know Tolkien better than Tolkien. We're going to like, that's, that's how the rings of power has done things. Right. And or maybe it's just more incompetence than anything else.
like, with this, it was like they actually seem to be building, building that kind of trust with their audience, which I think the way that you have to do it when you're doing these kinds of world building within a like kind of a treasured, a treasured legendarium, like the legendarium of Middle Earth, right? When you're trying to build upon what Tolkien left, you're trying to build upon that. You've got to. be true to what he left, right? So. Yeah, it was, it was truly fantastic.
know, when it opened with the, you know, a refused marriage proposal, I was like, yeah, this isn't gonna be good. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you know, there's a, and I thought the way they built They built that into the heart of the story. Again, like the key is that they didn't they didn't violate like with that. They didn't violate anything that Tolkien had laid out.
It very clearly states within the little bit we have of this story from Tolkien that that there was this that Freca shows up with his son, Wolf, and they kind of walk in, you know, and like to Helm and to Helm's throne room. they're like, you know, Freca, Freca basically demands that that Helm give his daughter in marriage to Wolf, right? And that's how it all starts out. So I think the way they built that up and they kind of did more with that story, with that core story is perfectly legit.
Like I think that's the way you gotta do it. You gotta start with the basics that Tolkien gave you and build from that and not violate it, right? And there were some... tiny changes here and there and some things that are kind of like, could raise an eyebrow on them, but they were so few and far between that you're just able to enjoy the rest of it. And the rest of it was so well done and just set the right tone. Like it was just perfect tone throughout. vibe was just off chest.
I just was vibing to it the whole time. I know. I was on the wavelength. Totally, I know at one point I was like, I'm sad that we didn't bring our kids because they would love this. We basically, and they're not really like Tolkien people because you know, it's like dad's Tolkien guy so I can't be, you know, it's like, no dad, this is dad's thing. But like, they do, they did love Lord of the Rings, the movies when we sat them down and made them watch them a few years ago.
But we told them, we told our boys last night, our daughter's not yet home from college, but when she gets home, we're like, the three of you need to go see this movie. You will, you will love it. Yeah. Like, it was so good. Yeah. It's so good. So you gotta watch. Anyway, so I assume people, if they're watching this, have probably already seen it. But I mean, because, you know, you want to avoid spoilers and that kind of thing. But if you have not yet, then you got to go see it. You really do.
If you already have seen it, go see it again. Go see it again. I want to see it again. Maybe we should go see it. Maybe we Maybe we should. All five us should go see it. Honestly, Christmas family movie outing. It's so good. I want to support it. Like I want to like support it with with my money. Right. This is the reaction you want your hardcore fans to have. Take my money. Take my money. Yes, totally.
And it's such a relief because I was getting really worried that the future of Tolkien's train adaptations was very dark. You know, was very, very unpromising. Well, let's talk a little bit about some of the details and the question of how faithful was it to Tolkien's version. So for those of you who don't know, you know, there's basically two, two places we get this story. The first is in, we get a very short couple of lines about it in the tale of years, appendix B in the Lord of the Rings.
and then it takes taking place in the year's third age, 2754 and 2758 through 59. and then there's a longer version of it in, in appendix A when it talks about the history of Rohan. so I. I kind of went through before we went last night and I posted this on our Twitter slash X whatever they're calling it these days account. Let me share this here with everybody.
So this was what I was using to kind of guide me when it comes to like the things I was looking for, kind of the points, like the beats that I felt like it needed to hit in order for it to really be successful. And I basically said like, you know, If they deviate greatly from this, I'm going to have a really hard time enjoying it. Right. that's not to say I'm like, I'm not the kind of person who's like, it's gotta be exactly like it, or it's a complete failure.
It's like, no, it was too well done and I enjoyed it too much. So we're going to identify a few things where it's kind of like, maybe open for discussion on how they did it. one thing that there was one significant change that I picked up on. again, like when I say change, mean, a, like a contradiction of something Tolkien. himself wrote, right? I'm not talking about like building upon the lore and adding things in. I'm talking about like contradicting things that he specifically wrote.
All right, so the first thing. Third age, 2754, King Helm of Rohan kills Freck of the Dunlending with a hammer hand of a blow. Okay, so that's my summary of that event. What's interesting about that event in the appendices is it's It almost comes off like, I would say it actually comes off as Tolkien wrote it, like Helm was more of an aggressor than the film made him out to be. Now, Freke does show up and he shows up very much like, dude, you shouldn't walk into the King's throne room like that.
They got that part right. And kind of the back and forth about Freke growing large because he likes to eat so much, the fat joke basically. That was definitely part of it. You know, he comes in demand, you know, really kind of demanding, that, helm give, you know, it, it's like, that's not the kind of thing you say out in front of everybody else, right? Unless you're, unless you're almost like attacking the dignity of, of this person, right?
You don't, you don't just walk up to some guy in front of all of, all of his friends and the people who are supposed to respect him and be like, give, give my son your daughter's hand in, in marriage, right? You don't do that, right? You don't do that. And there's. There's hidden things. So in a way that itself was kind of an attack on Helm, right, as the king. It was basically saying like, I'm not afraid to call you out in front of everybody else.
So they, in the film, they obviously make Frekeh, like they go outside and that happens in the story, but then like Frekeh obviously throws the first punches. Right? It never says that Freke throws any punches in Tolkien's version of the story. So. At the same time, though, I'm like, he could have right. It's a very like brief telling of it, right, that that we get.
And so the basic thing that Tolkien lands on is like Helm strikes him and, you know, and Helm is just such a strong, strong dude that he like it basically Freke falls to the ground and then like. you know, dies a short while later, right? Which is what happens in the film. So, you know, I guess that could be open to interpretation about how that happens. know, I certainly want to hear from folks and what they think about, you know, how that was portrayed.
I don't think they could have done it any differently and had it be as successful a story as they had it. I will say that. I will give them an allowance on this and say, like, I think they probably did it the best the way they should have. And the end result is the same, right? Recognize. Yeah. So it's kind of like. Yeah, exactly. There's no change to the actual like kind of consequence of it, except for maybe how you feel about Helm. Right. There's maybe a slight.
It makes him out to be if if you don't read it as Helm struck him first, then then that it has to be that way. Then Helm becomes a more sympathetic character. Totally. Yeah. If you read it as Helm struck first, you're like. It's still not like Helm is the worst guy, he might not have intended to kill him. He might have just intended to be like, you don't come into my throne room and call me out like that, right?
Well, even in the movie, they portrayed Helm as, or at least the way that I interpreted it was that it was an accident. It was not like he wasn't like, good, he's dead. He was like, what? I only struck him once, you guys saw that, you saw it. It was not his intent to kill Freca. I think slight, whether we wanna call it a contradiction, I don't think you can call it a contradiction. I think you can call it an interpretation. And I think it was probably the best interpretation.
All right, third age, 27, 58, Wolf son of Freca leads an attack on Rohan, that happens. Rohan overrun, remnant flees to the Hornburg, led by Helm, that happens. Freca usurps the throne, Helm's son, Haleth slain, that's the older son, that of course all of those three things happened in the film, so no issues there, really. Yeah, I agree. And I thought that was all really good. It was funny, I couldn't remember whether it was Haleth or Hama that was slain first, Meduseld.
So I was like, when Haleth was slain, was like, ooh, did they switch around Hama and Haleth? But no, it was Haleth that was slain first. And again, just the way it was done really, again, it was just done very dramatically. Haleth was like, you could tell he was the older son. He was the one who was gonna make the pride of his father and was gonna be the next king and everything. And then he's doing everything you'd expect him to do, and then the arrow through the throat, it was like, man.
Powerful scene. Well, let me ask you this because I don't see it mentioned in your posts here. but the the betrayal by King Thorin the Thorin what was his name? the one that you know, yeah I can't remember that I can't yeah, I know the Lord the Lord. Yeah, not Freca, but there was another Lord. I can't remember So he pledges to support Helm in the battle against Wolf. But then Hera realizes that he's in league with Wolf, actually.
So she's the one that actually realizes the betrayal and starts the evacuation. So anyway, was that part of it? Was that like an adding, like, was that part of the original story for Tolkien or was that kind of like a? something that they did liberty with? No, no, that was, I would say that was a building upon the story. Again, nothing in that violated, contradicted anything that I can think of. So that was just good additional story, building upon the story, the basic story in my mind.
Cool. All right. After next up, we have during the long winter's five months, Hama, the younger son of Helm, leads a sortie against the besieging forces, but is lost. So this is the one this is the one thing that they really changed. Right. So in the film, Hama falls behind because his horse can't keep up. I like. I almost felt and fell into tears when like his horse slows down and like I was just kind of like because he when you're.
when you're a pet owner and everything like that and you're just like, you you love your, you love your animals and then like, is the Thomas undoing ultimately, you know, you're just, and it was just like, you see the horse like struggling and everything like that. And it's just like, like fantastic. mean, fantastic storytelling. I just got to him again. Like that was like, poor horse. Poor horsey. And he just loves his horsey. He does. I know. Just that interaction between Hama and the horse.
know, could tell he was just like, like he wasn't angry. You know, he was just like, yeah, this is it. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah. It was very touching. I'm just tearing up thinking about it right now. It was it. And you're like rooting for the horse. You're like, you can do it. You can do it. Just catch your breath. Just keep going. Yeah. So, so this is the one thing that changed.
So Hama falls behind, he gets captured by Wolf and then Wolf rides up to the Hornburg and basically just cuts his throat right there in front of Helm and Hera. And in the story, Hama makes it to the Hornburg and during the long winter leads a sortie out against the against Wolf's forces, but the sortie is lost in the in the winter to the winter. So that was a little bit of a change. It was a it was definitely a change.
Now, I will say sometimes these changes are going to happen in any kind of storytelling. They should be few and far between when it comes to Tolkien. But I think honestly, this was better. I think it made Wolf even worse. yeah, yeah, made him way more violent. And really, like, I don't feel like we lost anything. Like, we basically lost seeing Hama and a bunch of Rohan soldiers freeze to death. And not do a whole lot, apparently.
So, I liked Hama as a character, like the way they portrayed him in juxtaposition to Haleth, his older brother, that he was kind of more, you he was less of a warrior and more of a, you know, like a creative type. I would have liked to see his character developed a little more, but that's really a very small criticism. think ultimately I'm like, knowing that there will be any adaptation, any retelling, there's gonna be changes. They better be good ones when it comes to Tolkien, right?
And I feel like I can live with this one. In fact, I it's actually, it may have been the better way to tell it. Yeah, I agree. And also, I think it helped to also sympathize Helm's character a little bit more too, because in that interaction where Wolf is threatening to kill him in front of Helm, you see Helm basically begging him, just take me instead. Like, leave my son, kill me. You see that just fatherly, sacrificial spirit in Helm.
And then knowing everything that comes after that, like it just, it works. Like it totally works. you, like this guy has, you know, now seen both of his sons slain, right? So it just kind of advances, I feel like his character arc in a very positive way. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great point. Like, yeah, you really, it pulls you into deeper, deeper empathy for, for Helm and for Hera and just ups the stakes of everything, right? What a complete catastrophe it was.
When I thought of Helm, almost thought of King Lear. And he's not quite King Lear, and there's a lot of differences, but I just thought of King Lear and some of what happens within that story. And come to think of it, you also kind of, think of like King David too, from scripture, right? And some of the mistakes he made and the tragedies, the personal tragedies, those led to for him. But yeah, so like, again, they made a change.
They changed something Tolkien explicitly said, but in this case, I think they got it right. I agree. like, just, you know, to kind of reemphasize the point about this, you know, villainizing Wolf even more, right? Like I literally, when the scene was unfolding, was like, he's not going to do it. He's not going to do it. Like Wolf is like, he's bad, but he's not that bad. You know, like he's not going to slip this guy's throat in front of his dad. And then he does it.
And you're like, yeah, I know. I thought I thought they weren't going to do it. I thought he was going to like, I thought he was going to like something was going to happen. Right. Yeah. Just to. so Hama could get free or something like that. But no. All right, well, let's look at the rest of these bullet points that I laid out. Helm goes out clad and white, killing the enemies of Rohan with his bare hands, eventually freezing to death after doing much damage to the enemy.
You skipped, yeah, you're right, sorry, go ahead. They got that. I I that was done extremely well. I loved how it was almost like mythology. It was. It had a very kind of. mythological vibe to it is in that part of the film. You know, where it was it stepped away from the the realism a little bit, you know, the fantastical what we call realism within the fantasy storytelling, right?
Like where it's, know, it seems the verisimilitude and it almost entered into this like dreamlike quality, which I thought, again, was was fantastic. Right. Really well done. You know, and I don't know, like that I could I could probably do a whole episode just talking about like why that was so cool. I haven't really. taking the time to articulate my thoughts on that too much, but it was masterfully done. Well, it was also cool too, because we talk about the whole mythological aspect of that.
There's a scene in there where Helm is, know, like he's been shot through with a few arrows at this point, right? So he's laying in a bed in Helm's Deep and... You know, there's some talk about how like they're like, it doesn't make sense. Like his body is mending, but he's he's not waking up, you know. And then think Harris says something to the effect of the effect of like, realize what's keeping you is not it's not a mortal wound.
It's grief and it's sorrow that's dragging you down and keeping you down. And so it's almost like it it lays the foundation for them to be like, yeah, this guy is like, it's not a mortal. You know, he's no longer mortal. Right. This is something bigger. that's kind of fueling his anger and desire for revenge. So yeah, yeah, I thought that was really beautiful. Just that interaction between Hera and what she says to her dad. then all of sudden he's gone and you're like, whoa, where'd he go?
Because even that, it's like he poof disappears, right? And you're like, And then even. Even Wolf at one point says, I will not be defeated by a ghost. Right. So like even they like are like, OK, this is like something supernatural that's happening now. Yeah. You know, and it also just shows to just like the effect of, know, of what like losing children can do to a person. know. So, yeah, I just thought it was I thought it was really it was really well done.
Yeah. Next up we have the next bullet point I laid out was after the long winter Freyolaf Helm's sister son leads a band from Dunharrow in an assault against the enemies of Rohan, slays Wolf and Meduseld and reclaims the throne for the line of Eorl. So I don't have written down whether it's actually, let's see here if I can figure it out, does Freyolaf actually slay Wolf by his own hand? because if so that would be a little bit of a... Okay, that is a little bit of a change too.
So, so he's surprised Wolf and Meduseldness slew him and regained Edoras. so yeah, okay. That's another change. I actually didn't mark that one down as a change, but it is, I just, I didn't, again, I don't have issue with it. Like, I think it was actually more, probably better storytelling and you know, with these kinds of appendices, sorts of stories, right? Like little, like where it's like two to three pages somewhere and you're trying to build a story off of it.
I imagine that Tolkien, if he had tried to tell this story himself, would have changed a lot of things, like would have developed themes and been like, maybe I'll do it differently. This might be better for effect. Yeah. But so again, I don't have, I don't have a problem with this, right? The lesson here is that they're so true to like the underlying. like nature and tone and everything of the story.
And they hit they they nailed so many of the events that and again, it's just like so well done aesthetically that you you don't wince at every single thing. Right. You don't like like that's that's what happens when I watch Rings of Powers. I just I'm like finding myself constantly wincing and just like rolling my eyes and being like they can't do anything right. And and it's just not enjoyable. Like I don't want to spend my time watching or thinking about that, right?
Yeah, I want to Watch I want to be enchanted I want to lose my sense of self and I just want to be engrossed in the thing that I'm I'm watching or reading or listening to Completely. Yeah completely Question the Eagles play a pretty big role last thing and we'll talk about Eagles Saruman be friends for a lot from the people of Rohan That's the last thing I wrote and that happens, of course very briefly at the end So sorry. OK. Gotcha. These are like your main bullet points.
So, yeah, they pretty much rocked it. Yeah. Yeah. I they hit they hit them. You know, there was not there were there was a few deviations, but they weren't none of them were like like change the story. Yeah. Like like like like any consequential way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, Eagles. Cool. Eagles, yes. Are they in the story that Tolkien laid out at all? No, but I love that. I love it brilliant.
First of all, it ushers in the supernatural element to this story that's, or I guess you could say the high legendarium element of this story that's more like kind of the low legendarium, where it's just like these men basically. There's no elves in the movie. And there's no like wizards except at the very end. You do get the Watcher in the Water scene, which I thought was really cool. that the big octopus thing? OK. The Watcher in the Water that eats the Oliphant.
Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of gross, but also cool. Yeah. was cool. But yeah, whole thing with the bringing in the Eagles, right? That is a that's ushering in kind of on the edges of this story, the high legendarium aspect of it, right? So the eagles, course, being the great eagles being the heralds of Manwe and being Maya themselves, right? They're actually embodied, incarnated gods themselves, right? And it was just super well done. It was really well done. Yeah, no, I thought it was great.
And adds the Eukastrophic element Exactly, yeah. He took the words out of my mouth. Well, you called it out before I did last night. Yeah, because they're the, you know, it's the Eagles that kind of basically alert Hara's cousin. What was his name again? Freylof. Freylof. Like he's, you know, Hara makes this amazing, like, you know. ice climbing ice covered mountains to get to to get to the Eagles lair and or nest or whatever.
And, you know, drops off Helms armor for them to take to to frail off. And I thought, mean, yeah. And then when you see the the eagle, you know, you just anyway, it was very like gave you chills. I thought it was just I thought it was awesome. You had you catastrophe for the win. Absolutely. absolutely. if you got me, mean, pretty much in Tolkien, if you got a eucatastrophe, it's got to involve eagles. It's got to. It's got to. You can't not have eagles. And that was the other thing, too.
I just felt like not only was it visually stunning, but it was like they did an amazing job of like just perspective. the eagles, like they showed Hera like standing in front of one of these eagles. And she was just like minuscule. Right. You know. So it just it really Like it just kind of engulfed you in that whole world.
And even that, like, you know, I feel like lesser storytellers would have been like, she's going to walk up to this eagle and like, you know, she's going to like harness it because she's such a girl boss. Right. Right. It and everything. You know, it's like, no, she's still like she's still small compared to this compared to this creature. Right. Yeah. And the creatures were so terrifying. They were. Yeah. And and she's still kind of like at its mercy. Right. So she she like.
goes to it, basically asking for it's, it's a like pleading with it for mercy and it's a right. Yeah. Exactly. And, that's just so like, that's just better. Like it's just, it's more Tolkienian. It's, it's, you know, more, more purely took Tolkienian. So, I really, really love that. And I will say like, I really liked Tara as a character, you know, this completely, you know, developed from one sentence character. I thought she was great. Yeah. I completely agree.
think she was, yeah, I think she was beautiful. And she, you know, and even with everything that happened with Wolf, like I love that they put that little backstory in there of them, like as children playing together. And, you know, like it was, you know, she's she really like tried to reconcile and made several attempts even after even after Wolf had done all those horrible things to her family. Like she's still. was willing to show him mercy at the end.
I just, yeah, I thought she was just awesome. And, you know, just speaking of the Eagles and Hera, you know, the movie opens with Hera going to see one of the Eagles and she brings them like this ginormous turkey leg. And I'm like, OK, how did that fit in your horse's side bag? But anyway, but, you know, I love like just that full circle, right? Where it opens with her just like this kind of like seemingly standalone event with her, you know, visiting the Eagles. You're like, what are doing?
Why are you just why did you ride like? all this way to give the eagle a turkey leg. Okay, whatever. But then, you realize as the story is starting to wrap up, you're like, it's gonna come back into play now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So all in all, pretty happy with that movie. Any other thoughts you want to lay out before you give it a final grade, Greta? No, I think so.
was just, you know, I honestly I was just, yeah, I was just blown away and I was just incredibly pleasantly surprised by it. did not expect to like it nearly as much as I did. Yeah. I just I thought it was a feast for the eyes and the heart and it was. Yeah, I can't say enough about the end, like the visuals, like it was so good. Yeah, it was like, let this guy, his name is the director is. Kenji Kamiyama. It was like Miyazaki in Middle Earth, right?
And like, let this guy make Middle Earth films, like have him be the guy. Continue to work with what you know, the team that he worked with and everything like the storytelling. But like, this is the future I want for Middle Earth storytelling. Totally. Totally. I feel like they left the door open at the end of the movie, too. Well, I hope I know. I know Peter Jackson has other things planned within Middle Earth. And then, of course, I think Amazon Studios can continue with Rings of Power.
But I'm just I'm done with Rings of Power. And. But if I had to pick between the three and I think Peter Jackson, Peter Jackson was an executive producer of this, of course. So I would say to Peter, like, just let this guy do do all these things, right? You know. and then promote the heck out of them, right? I don't know. think Peter Jackson wants to do some more live action stuff, but I would just prefer like this, you know? Like just keep doing this.
This feels like the thing I've always wanted Middle Earth to feel like, you know, when it comes to the screen. And no disrespect to the Lord of the Rings films, of course, which are classics and I love them. But that's really, think Peter Jackson almost captured lightning in a bottle when he did those. And I don't know that you can do that again with that medium. I think it's really difficult, especially with their huge reliance on like, know, CGI special effects and everything like that.
just kind of like the general storytelling incompetence of much of Hollywood these days. just worry that that's, you know, those kind of live action, big budget sort of blockbusters are just too difficult to pull off. So, I mean. Into the Spider-Verse, right, was a massive hit and it was animated. So why can't movies like this be massive hits, right? Why can't a movie that's based on a very popular IP like Lord of the Rings, Middle Earth, be a massive hit at the box office?
I really hope this is a massive hit. don't know. I didn't see any posters for it or anything at the movie theater last night and I'm just kind of like... Are they not promoting it? Like what's the, what's the deal? So y'all, if you've seen this, if you enjoyed it, go see it more. and you know, you, you gotta vote with your money. If you want to see good stuff, show up at the box office, this needs to be a hit. It's a $30 million budget, according to the Wikipedia page here.
and of course the box office doesn't matter at this point, cause it's like, it's just the second day of its release. I don't even think that, that may not even include Friday there. It may just be Thursday totals. Hopefully that's just Thursday totals. But, you know, if this thing could be 100 million on a 30 million dollar budget in the U.S., then that seems like a big win, right? Totally. And there's no reason it can't be much bigger, right? So tell everybody about it.
Tell them they should go see it. Tell them it's highly worthwhile. know, just use that word of mouth to get it around, because we want to see movies like this made. Yeah, we want to see movies like this made. Peter, if you're watching, anything I can do to help, give me a call, right? Like. Yeah. And it's just, it's great. Like it's, so like something else that just occurred to me while you were talking was just in the world of movies today.
Like very rarely are there like movies that an entire family can sit down and watch and enjoy together. Like this was completely appropriate for kids. would say, I would say like, probably like, you know, 12. 12 and older, maybe 10 and older. 10 and older, 10 these days. It have been like 13 and older, know, you're like a generation ago, 10 these days, right? I mean, there's some pretty scary parts of it.
Like if you're a kid and there's some parts that are kind of violent, like some war scenes that are kind of violent. That's true, but it's not like, you know, like appropriate wise, right? Like there's nothing can tell you right now, if I was a five-year-old and I saw this giant monster devour a giant elephant, I would be both scared. and really sad because it's like, ate the elephant. was a mean elephant.
Well, it was a mean elephant, but it's still it's I don't know something about seeing like a creature get eaten by another is like that's disturbing when you're a kid. guess that's true. I saw a few movies where that stuff like that happened and it was always like it kind of stuck with me and like, ugh. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. All right. So 10, 10 and up. But, you know, I mean, it is just like in a lot of ways, it's just so much more wholesome than. so much of the stuff out today.
Yeah, no, 100%. And yeah, I think, you know, for probably 10 and older, you know, it's it's definitely we're going to do it. We're to take our kids. We're going to the five of us are going to go see it. Yeah. When when when our daughter gets home. Yes, for sure. So sure. All right. So, you know, tell us your thoughts. So Greta, five star scale, what do you give it? Five star scale. Yeah. One one being sucks. Five being Great, loved it. I give it a seven. You went wow. Seven's a good number.
Yeah, it was five out of five. Yeah. Easily. I think I give it a five out of five as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Kenji. Kenji Yama for directing this film and everybody else that was involved in a big way. This is is a Tolkien fan who's been at this. thing for almost 10 years. This is a real delight and I have like, it gives me hope for the future of story, Tolkien storytelling, you know, on the big screen. So now I just want you now what I want you can Kenji Kenji Yama.
I want you to pit go and pitch to Netflix or somebody a animated. extremely faithful retelling of Lord of the Rings itself, right? Maybe start with The Hobbit and then do Lord of the Rings, right? Do this kind of style, but do it in like, get every detail. I want Tom Bombadil. I want all the stuff that Jackson left out of the movie, because it was kind of like, I want to do like the full bore. Like, let's do, you know, you know, one chapter per episode kind of deal, right?
And do like multi-seed, like six seasons of that, right? That would be awesome. That would be fantastic. If you want to just ease your way into that, though, Kenji, I would love to see Baron and Luthien. So yes, would be another option. Well, hey, go get those Silmarillion rights.
Yes. Unfortunately, it's like that's the thing is like, I'm not sure that like this if these kinds of movies can be humongous hits, then they can justify going to the Tolkien estate and being like, here, we're to give you all this money to do it. Maybe Jeff Bezos will see this and be like, you know what? forget my Amazon studio stuff, I'm just gonna fund this, right? That would be welcome to you, Yes. So anyway, so five out of five for me. Awesome. I loved it. I loved it. All right.
We want to hear from you. What did you think of the War of the Rohirrim? Anybody else think we're completely off base and it was a complete disaster? I would probably have a hard time taking that seriously, but... But we're looking forward to the discussion. hopefully we can just talk about all the things that were wonderful and we loved about it. So let us know in the comments below. All right. Quick word on 2025 plans. So the last few months have been pretty quiet.
Basically, my plan had been, you know, for the last for the fourth quarter of 2024, was going to we were going to do individual episode reviews of Rings of Power Season 2. And then I was just like, I don't want to spend any more time thinking about this show. appreciate you sparing me. And I haven't even seen any of them. consider yourself blessed. have some, you know, I developed some kind of low key PTSD, as I mentioned before, from like just watching it and my utter disappointment with it.
And so we've been pretty slow going when it comes to new episodes. And I'm trying to think about the approach for 2025. So, you know, we're definitely going to continue with the Do Not Be Hasty. So Do Not Be Hasty about Do Not Be Hasty. you know, our, our slow walk through the, Lord of the Rings. we've done two chapters so far. and we will, we will be doing a third probably at some point in 2025. you know, I hope to get back to that soon.
I've also got to, finish the two Tolkien books I'm working on. and, so hopefully more on those soon as well. That will probably be my first priority entering into 2025, but I'm gonna be trying to do more, less kind of like. scheduled sort of weekly content and more, more just kind of like spontaneous, like what's on my mind, like what I want to talk about, what I'm working on right now, kind of stuff. so really the 2025 plan is no big plans, right? Like no, no, Written in stone plans, right?
So, but we're still going to be doing Tolkien road stuff in 2025. So that's the plan. Hey everybody. this will probably be our last big episode for the year. So Hope everybody has a very Merry Christmas and a very happy entry into 2025. We really appreciate everybody. We hope everyone will now go see War of the Rohirrim multiple times. It, know, great art, deserves our support. And if you want to see more of it, you got to give it, you got to give it as much support as you can. Right.
So. That's how I feel about it. It's delightful to feel that way about this. So I hope everybody out there feels that same way and that you'll go and support the film. Yeah. All right. What he said. All right. Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please consider supporting us in one or all the following ways. First, join the Fellowship of the Road by visiting Patreon.com slash Tolkien Road.
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