From India's largest Newsroom. I'm are enjoyed, and this is the times of India podcast. They are into election mode for 2024 and unfortunately, they wrongly think that they can win election only by polarization, which is not true. They failed in Canada and I believe as an instrument of Indian context I have known virtually every parameter for last 50 years. I have been very actively involved both as a journalist. As I student of Indian politics
and has a condition. That these things don't work Beyond a point. So, whatever, they could gain from this kind of polarization, they have already came. Now, if they try to push it too far, it will be counterproductive and disprove to be proving to be counterproductive. That's Shahid. Siddiqui, who is Don the hats of journalist editor and a rajasa by a different points close to a year ago, Shahid, Siddiqui and a group of other eminent Muslim personalities met with RSS Chief
Mohan bhagwat. At the time there was hope that the meeting was the star. For larger dialogue to I know Tony issues, affecting both communities a year later signs. Indicate admits he never expected things to change this quickly, but remains hopeful of a continuing dialogue, with the RSS, which is the ideological Fountainhead of the BJP.
In today's episode, her in Derbyshire is in conversation with sides in the key about the meeting with the RSS Chief and what he believes has been achieved since then, they discussed the worries of the Muslim Community. And why a request for a similar meeting with the Prime Minister remains unanswered and despite his worries about the proliferation of inter-religious heat shield cdk explains why he still remains hopeful about India.
Sup Cassatt sucker vikas? That is a promise that the BJP came on in 2014. How true has the government being to that promise? The whole country knows it. The government knows it, the Prime Minister knows it, the BJP knows. It, everybody knows that they have, this is only a slogan, like the Joomla has of the past. This is a mere Joomla. Something added to this in 2019, Supply, which was so neither of the ishwara, is there not because they're so soft coming here, I can't say about
everybody. There are people there are forces in Kuwait, Got who have developed, but not everyone, especially not the minority, especially the Muslims, you know. It is almost a year, 10 months, for sure. Since you met the RSS, Chief Mohan bhagwat, essentially to address the insecurities of the Muslim Community. But the hate speech is what is this out Peach achieved? You would say so far, how do you look back on the ten months of dialogue?
We went with a boy. Very positive mindset because we believe that this country has to dial up with everybody coming together by Building Bridges and not by creating differences. We should focus on. What is common, what we share with each other? Instead of you know focusing on where we are different from each other. And therefore, we thought that our SS is one of the most powerful and most in strong organization in the country. Especially among a large section of Hindus and therefore we
should approach them. We approach some challenging wrote a letter to him and he was kind enough to give us an appointment that we've done sup as white policies of Journalism euthanasia myself, Mississippi Shivani, we met him. And in a very cordial environment, we met openly, there's nothing secret about it. We didn't want to keep it secret at all, but we also didn't go to the media because Going to Media only spoils things, instead of taking them forward.
He heads to apprehensions, he said that the Muslims Talk of the heart to subtract teachers, ask a favor Muslims, you know, believe in eating bees. That should not happen and we assured him that so far, as we are concerned, we are none of these but he said that usually speak to Muslim malama also because you people don't have much of it standing and we agree with that. We don't have any standing in the community. We don't represent the community, we only represent. That ourselves.
So we came back and we talked to the Muslim Allah, madad amok islami, the limit or my in both the girls are shared Matheny and Maulana bamboo the motherly group to Maulana, Frankie, Valli Lucknow to not, go to Lamar the chief of Muslim personal law board, who is no more spoke to all of them. And they were, we were all on the same page that in India. Indian Muslims have never believed in the heart. What about the Pakistan said, whatever.
The let's create a band of the said, how are they have tried? We must appreciate. And the nation must appreciate, again Muslim that. They refused to be influenced by these Jihadi groups and infected a lot of media and lot of people talk of Love Jihad, Randy are we his Jaws are being thrown at us but if we refuse to accept that because we have never believed in TR and we don't believe in Jihad.
And the country must understand that Society must understand the media must understand that Indian Muslims have stood up against any kind of nonsensical, violent yard. Only the heart we believe in is pleasing ourselves and going for better education and creating a nation, which is Nation. We are, everybody has equal rights, where everybody has equal, which draws equal because and equal purity.
So what were you say? You achieved in 10 months we knew that you will not be achieving much because these differences have developed in centuries and especially in recent times, it is more political than social. I don't find these differences on the ground as much as I find it in the politics and in the media day and night. So the only thing we have achieved is that we are talking and I really believe that we must always keep our windows.
Open. Even if the doors are closed, windows should never close between people who have differences and different viewpoints, we have been able to give to give the message to the nation and to the RSS and to the government that Muslim groups are all together on this, we don't believe in Bihar. We don't believe in calling Hindus as cafes, PR for universal law to ban cows throttle. We are not for cow slaughter at all. All we are totally opposed to
that. So don't blame us if something happens, if some individuals commit, something here and beer tune bleed the whole community. And we are also against you know craving the community for any crime or anything committed by an individual. The problem is that when in when an individual who happens to be Muslims, does something the whole Community is made to stand in the talk. But when a any other committee person, commits a crime, its individual crime and Sancho I love you.
Agreed with us. He said that he would also talk to his people. He said that, at least you should condemn some of these people who are spreading hate politics and were crying trying to divide society and I must
appreciate that. Samsung Galaxy has from time to time spoken against it. And even he found difficulty in his own party and some of the more so-called liberal and lightened hugs and supporters were very Critical of him because they believed in eliminating Islam from the whole world, which is absolutely ridiculous. But some of them who are, who are, I find a highly so-called educated and middle class people in March.
In fact, you all are written the letter to the RSS, Chief Mohan, bhagwat, requesting him to speak more and to get the union and state governments to file Affairs against people who were openly speaking in very high. Three terms. Yes. Was there any impact impact? After that letter, there has been some movement. The Harvard he has spoken from time to time. I don't know how much impact it has on that ground. What they have told us is that look, we can't influence the
government. We are a non-governmental organization. We don't speak like that, but if the terms are other they speak we can't do much about it. So we request Um, at least to condemn it, at least to question them. And now, what is happening in uttarakhand is extremely disturbing. It's a very small incident. I mean, trackin, Muslims are hardly 1 and a 1 or 2 percent. Muslims are not a threat anyway in that state at all, but to turn it into a huge issue.
I think shows the weakness of the present regimes, they seem to be relying totally on Creating polarization, which they did in. And filled it. Now the same thing is being done in madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan in. I don't know why it is being done in who crackling, but I hope that awkwardly and Son. Our friends in son really speak out against that and will understand that this is not in the interest of the country.
There's some days but think about Kathy a kind of our healthy bod Corp, a that happened brother that requires you know, confidence in each other unless you Have confidence, you can't have a comparison, you know, you just said that one bag were told you that they can't influence the government. I mean, do you really believe a statement like that? I mean they are the ideological Fountainhead of the bgp and why I have to leave him but I know that they have a great influence on everybody.
Whether it is the government or if the bureaucracy or if the police because R is Is an ideological group and that's why we have ruined our assessment. We could have a cold the government people. So, tell us. Why did you approach the government further? We see bombings come and go. RSS is their RSS will remain.
There is either, thinking is a idea when ideas change the society changes, therefore, we are trying to interact with this ideology and with this idea, by creating a meeting ground, and therefore, I don't think there is Nothing we do wrong in that and he will be able to understand it. Visually entities teks takes time. We never expected anything to achieve anything if next year too, but niches are not made in just few years.
We are not here for full picture for the next election in 2024, we are here for next three, four, five decades. Whether we live or not be we have to create an environment with new field in decades India. Able to come together and these differences become irrelevant and we are able to create a nation of Indians. Not a nation of Hindus and Muslims and Sikhs and Christians. So when Juan Vazquez said, let's not look for a shivling. Under every mosque, you are must have felt quite encouraged,
right? Yes. Yes. Hey, when you are met his representatives in a second meeting at mr. Jang's house, right? They did try and test the waters by bringing up Kashi and mozzarella. Yes, but they were not insistent on it, they just mentioned it, they didn't bring up the issue. It was briefly mentioned, but it was not the main issue of discussion. And all those who are present, there was a demand islami representative. There was a relative of Maulana Sheikh, Mohammed Murray and others.
They were quite happy and quite Guide the discussion, we had with the RSS leaders at the residence of mr. Najeeb Jung, they mentioned that they seek, you may come up, which may create problems, we said that, let the courts decide, and that's it. We didn't go into any details within discuss. They didn't say you have to give or nothing of the sort, you know, you got religious Scholars on board. Like, you were telling us to be a part of this dialogue. They don't ask you questions.
Now, keep wherever you reached. No, no. They they they also understand they are very reasonable people. The impression which has been created by media is totally false. I have known the Llama all my life. These Kalama do understand but they expect a transparency in our discussions with the Sun or with any other group and that's what we hope.
Because someone is a bit unhappy, especially to people like me who speak out because Cuz I believe that any understanding with any adversary, it is important that we take the people along with us. If you are not able to take the people along with us, we are of no use to anyone. And therefore, we must take the confidence of the people and the confidence of the people comes by being transparent. So I like to speak out openly what we discussed with RSS, what we are discussing with RSS and
in the future what I believe. And I I have told my friends in that group that we must always be very transparent and whatever discussion we have we must come out and tell the people. Why should we hide? Because they are not doing something - we are not doing something against the community against the country or against the society.
So we should be open about it and not hide their argument is also there is also valid they say that if you come out in the very beginning that the media tries to spoil the issues by raising irrelevant questions, A element debates but we have to live with it. Every government, every people have to live with a PDF which ask questions. Unfortunately, the media doesn't ask questions to the government.
It only ask question to People Like Us, who are trying to do something positive, but we have to learn to live with the media as well. You said that the problem essentially lies in the political domain. Yes, so maybe you should be meeting prime minister Narendra Modi, If he meets us but we are all for it. We have written a letter to him about two months back in April, we wrote to him. I think it's more than that. It's three months out and we have not received any
acknowledgement, he's very busy. He was busy in the elections. In Karnataka. Now he will be going is going to America, then he'll be busy in the elections in madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, and other places, but we we are ready to meet anyone. Anybody for that matter of any political party of any religious leader. And we are trying to meet other religious leaders also, because in the Hindu Society, there are various people who represent Hindu Society.
Shravan Dharma is not represented by any one group. So, we want to build Bridges, and we also want to build Bridges between within the community and with the, with the intellectual, with the middle class because In the last few decades. Unfortunately, there have been more differences. Have been sharpened for no reason at all. While what we expect the new generation Express the 21st century.
India expects, these individuals to go into the background and we must all be working for a better. India, of course, Paris India, It's interesting. It's been over two months since you wrote to the Prime Minister. What does his silence tell you, how would you interpret the silence? Not even an acknowledgement. Well, I can't speak on his behalf. I understand he's a very busy person and we are very unimportant. Is small people. So he naturally he won't find time for us.
But we expected at least acknowledgement which has not come. But anyway, we are waiting for him and we will be writing to again. Requesting him for an appointment because we believe that we must come together to build India and not create problems for. We are not there to confront the government. We are not there to confront anybody, either the Hindu or even the Muslim leaders or any other group. We are here to see that how can we, you know, bring people together?
So let me ask you switch, sides. Are you expecting too much from a party that has made? Add polarization, an election strategy. We always expect too much from our rulers, whether it was Congress, whether it was one more thing or attendee or anybody. We Indians are very hopeful people, we always expect too much. So we are expecting too much from him. Also now, and we have this Indian way of thinking that it's Longo, Ethan of them will die.
So that is whatever. Hope is that we are asking for. Thing. But just, you know, rule of law, a treatment as a citizen, equal cities are of the contain. That's what we are asking, not much, so even if we get a semblance of this, we will be happy. But there is so much to despair about Shaheen's whether it is because - you know, convicts being garlanded fitted.
Now, orange tape seems to be becoming an issue in Maharashtra. I mean, track on people are waking up to eviction, notices it, I mean, even a BJP functionality has to has had to pack his bags and live with wrecked. It is all there, but I am a pretty old hand and I have seen terrible times. I've been the generosity of someone's body party for long. There are certainly ODSP and I have, you know, raise issues
within the party. And I have seen that these parties, never took any concrete step. To fight these communal forces, so it's not something new for me. Unfortunately, it's unfortunate, but that's not something new. It has been happening for the last 70 years, and we have learned to live with it and we must learn to live with. It is only now that the media is coming out with, it's only the pretty glass sitting in there, you know, safe homes, who are realizing that, these things are
happening. So what can I say about, mr. Modi people telling me you have to be precise. Of that side either. You have to be again, smooth, your form of the unfortunately, I can't be. I have seen too much of it, and I can see that this is happening. And for that, we have to change the society. Just merely changing government is not going to help, and we have done it in the past. We have changed or made in the past, but not much has happened.
Now, we have to change the mindset of the people and organizations like RSS or religious leaders. Like, you know, the remote from art movement or the the guru like SRI SRI and others who have some influence. I'm not for or against anybody but they have to come out and we are on our hand. We are working with our Obama with Obama who are hard very hard liner.
We are trying to bring them on the same page in a way that they become more open, more liberal more transparent and More For Change. Would you say however that the level of insecurity and the sense of marginalization, Has increased. He has it has, it has. Everybody knows that return in the past, they were rods. Use rights. The thousands were killed, but now it is. Every movement you are feeling insecure. Children are feeling insecure because in schools, you are being targeted.
And the main reason is the media 24/7, whether you are sitting at the airport or you are sitting in a hotel lobby, you are watching Muslims being demonized. This so-called love Jihad so-called Randy, hostel called all sorts of gas, but fortunately by and large Indian Muslims. Except for few individuals have never indulged in any kind of the heart. So don't push him into this Jihad more but talking about her
24/7. If you talk of the heart 24/7, then something terrible may happen, which we all don't want. And and this is happening because they know it that Indian Muslims are for peace. In their Muslims are not 40 odd. That's why they are talking 24/7 about Gabi are constantly because they know it that these people are not violent. And we are telling Indian Muslims that yes, we have to live in this country. We have to love this country.
We have to Trend up with this country unit of this country. And we are opposed any group who stands up for Jihad. So, tell me Shy, while you wait for a reply from the prime minister, is there the possibility? Off another meeting with the more language or his Representatives. Yes. Yes. Definitely. We would like to continue meeting and we we are we were happy with the baby talks went along and we appreciate their problems. Also, you know, RSS buggy and
other leaders. Whether it is the rich Kumar or it is Ram Lal ji occasion to apology or someone he who have to go back to their own people and their organization. Is a hundred year old organization. It has its own and host its own culture, its own priorities, and therefore it's not easy for them. Also, we understand their problem, they understand our problem. You must have seen that those small time. Always, we used to come on channels, there are less and less of them.
They are being offered double, double the money, then that was done in the past by these channels to come. But only few are going because we are stopping them. We have created. Woman in the community where these people are back wanted. All these so-called people with beard who are not. Mulvey's put up there in the discussion to talk - and talk dirty. They are by courted by the community.
So changes are coming. I am believe, I believe that after 2020 for election whosoever Wills, things will improve because for has been has gone up to a point. I believe RSS understand that. This polarization can work up to a point not Beyond and if you Just rely on that. Then it will be counterproductive. It is being proving to be counterproductive and the world is watching, given the toxicity, given the hate. I mean, the increased sense of insecurity, which we discussed
earlier. How has your life been impacted personally? My life has not been impacted much show me. I I, but I feel sorry. I feel anguished, I feel unhappy. I as am I I stopped watching Be jealous.i'm, stopped appearing. I have been asked to contest the coming groups of election. I'm not interested because I don't feel, I don't want to get votes in the name of community or a group, and they say that, unless you polarize your community, you will not be able to win. I and I prefer to lose.
So today, I am very sad but I still am hopeful. You can't undo the evolution of a society which has taken eight hundred years or a thousand years. Whether it's chicken sandwich, As the world, which has influenced Islam and Islam, which is influenced every other religion. And it has given birth, to all sorts of movements within our society. Whether it's Arya samaj movement of the barometer, my movement they have three are a result of the influence of Islamic
thought, as well. Our languages have been filled. Our music has been filled, you can't separate the two. It's like own In the Flesh. If you try to do that, you will lose everything to be, must understand. And I hope that after Maybe after damaging our society, too much. We will understand that that will be unfortunate but we will understand. I have faith in this country. Our Fate in the society are creating the majority of Hindus, Muslims Christians.
I, I don't lose faith and I have also some faith in media because there are still people in media who are ready to stake out their neck. In spite of the all the threats they are facing Today's episode was produced by Jay Raj, Singh soon. I moratti and on Vijay Singh for a daily Spotlight. On people ideas and stories that matter subscribe to us, we're available on T. Y+ Spotify, Apple Google podcast and all other platforms of your
choice for in the new steps. Email us at DIY podcast at times, internet dot in.