From Indias largest newsroom, I'm Arun George and this is the Times of India podcast. You have to deliver a world class team that succeeds across formats and geographies. You need to inspire future generations and present team members. You have to review, enforce, and maintain discipline. You have to be below the age of 60 if you fit these criteria and have played a minimum of 30 tests or 50. ODIs.
Then you perhaps should apply for the post of the Indian men's cricket team coach, the sports richest and most powerful body. The BCCI is looking to hire a coach for the next three years, with current coach Rahul Dravid saying he doesn't plan to stay on after the T20 World Cup later this year. The legendary batsman, who took over as coach in 2021, has shown no interest in extending the tenure of his contract. We asked our guest on today's show if that's a surprise.
Not at all really, because if anything his tenure was to come to an end naturally after the last fifty over World Cup. It was only because there was a key tour to South Africa coming up very soon after and there was the T20 World Cup, which is almost upon us now. And there wasn't really. The board did not give themselves enough time to run the process of picking a new coach, so he was asked to stay
on for a little longer. Otherwise I think he would have left after the 50 over World Cup itself. He's just staying on to do a kind of a caretaker job at the moment. That's Anand Vasu, our guest on today's episode. Anand has been writing about cricket for two decades and is a frequent columnist for The Times of India and The Economic Times. In today's episode, we're in conversation with Anand about the front runners for the Post and the others who might make for good candidates.
We also. Talk about the challenges the new coach will face and whether India should be looking for an Indian or a foreign coach. We started by asking Anand to evaluate Dravid's tenure as India coach. With Dravid itself, he was projected as a bit of a reluctant coach who took the job after he was pushed into it by Saurav Ganguly. How do we view his tenure as coach? Yes, I think his tenure as coach
has been quite a mixed one. The tremendous success that he had at the National Cricket Academy and with the India A teams LED everyone to believe that you know, he's going to work miracles when it came to the Indian Test, ODI and T20 teams also. Obviously the biggest thing is the lack of World Cup trophy, which continues to haunt this
Indian team. That's something that Dravid has not been able to fix and perhaps that's the last box left to be ticked for him with the T20 World Cup that's coming up in the West Indies and America. As for him being a reluctant coach, I think he worked very well with the India A and the National Cricket Academy teams because that is a much more process oriented kind of approach where you're developing players, developing teams rather than necessarily looking to win
every single match that you play. When you're coach of the Indian national team, you don't have that much elbow room to work with players or to develop players or to try out different combinations or different players because there is tremendous pressure to win every single match that you play Now. This is especially true in Test
cricket. With the World Test Championship having kicked into place, every single game now is a must win pretty much, and especially at home, because you know you're going to lose some games away in tougher conditions like in South Africa or in Australia or in England. So that makes every single home game must win. And we've seen this desperation translate into, you know, some pretty difficult pitches by and large, apart from perhaps the last series that India played at home.
So I think Javid's tenure as coach, it's a mixed bag. I don't think it's as successful as people might have thought it could have been. But overall you would say no real complaints. Apart from the fact you've not seen enough young players come on and improve and seal their places time and again this team has had to go back to older
players. We saw that with Pujara being recalled in the Test team, with Rahane being recalled in the Test team and then the team went in One Direction T20 cricket and almost a year you didn't have Virat Kohli or Rohit Sharma playing and then come a big tournament, The two are both back in the mix on the back of some strong IPL performances, it must be said. But it's definitely AU turn in policy of sorts. So yes, it's been a mixed bag.
I think that's the only way you can look at this tenure of Dravid as coach. But like you said, given your Indian coach, this sort of U-turn in policy is is powerful the course in some ways, right? I mean, isn't this typically how the Indian team operates? Well, it's not just the Indian team. I think it's the whole ecosystem. It's the BCCI, it's the selectors, it's the coaches, it's all put together.
I think the selection for the C20 World Cup especially has been kind of a safe approach at a time when the game is changing so rapidly, especially in terms of batting and bowlers are trying to cope with 250 plus scores and 200 scores on a regular basis. You would have thought that the way forward was to unleash more fearless young cricketers, especially batsmen, and there is no shortage of these in India. There's plenty of people who are making runs very quickly.
They may not be making the big hundreds, but you don't necessarily need that in T20 cricket. You need people who can make an explosive impact in a short period of time. And India have chosen to kind of err on the safe side, if you will. And I think this is a mentality that happens a lot with Indian cricket, especially when it comes to World Cups and big tournaments. I know you said this about Dravid, that the sort of work he did in the NCA and the under 21
teams. Do you feel like we rushed him into this post of national coach in some ways? And was it maybe a better idea to let him be at the NCA and under 21 for a few more years before we pulled him into the national team? I don't know if there was ever going to be a right time to move from the NCA to the national team. They're completely different
jobs. I mean, one is a very much developmental job, while the national team is much more of a management kind of job because you're working with cricketers who are already pretty much the finished product. They've proven themselves time and time again at the international level, so there was never going to be a right time in that sense. What would a few more years at
the NCAA have done? It would have allowed him to work with some more upcoming cricketers, but the NCS setup itself is a pretty robust one, and VVS Laxman has been doing a fantastic job there since he took over from Dravid. So I don't think there's been anything lacking in the India AA or NCA system per SE. And I don't know if there's ever going to be a natural time or a right time for Dravid to move from the NCA and India AA setups to the Indian team.
It just happened that there was a vacancy and he was an ideally suited candidate for the job at the time. So VVS Lakshman is one of the names in the frame to take over from Dravid as well. For one, how do you view his chances? And you know, what do we really know of him as a coach? Because we know of him more as a player but less of him as a coach. I think if he wanted the job, he could have it as soon as
Dravid's tenure finished. I think there's enough backing for him within the playing ecosystem, within the BCCI, within all the people that matter in taking. The decision of who the next coach will be, whether Lakshman will want to take on that job or not is a completely different thing. He's someone who's a master technician as a batsman, this we know.
I have had several conversations and interviews with him about the art of batting itself and he can explain it to you absolutely crisply, clearly in simple terms, there's no doubt that as a technical coach he would do a fantastic job with any young cricketer. And it's not just about batting. He understands the game. He's well liked. He's had a broad and diverse body of work and experience in both domestic cricket and international cricket.
So he it's not that he can only work with batsmen. I think technically he could be a fantastic coach. Tactically, how much he would want to get involved. Now, this is something that only Lakshman can answer, because when you're coaching at the Indian level, you have to work
very closely with a captain. Now, if you have an excellent rapper with a captain, if it's someone who you've worked with and someone who is on the same wavelength as you and on the same page as you, then I think it's something that Lakshman could do very well. But would he want to get put himself in a situation where perhaps he's faced with a captain who doesn't agree with what he wants to do with the
team? Perhaps he's faced with a captain who wants to take things in a different direction from what he believes is best. Now, is this a position Lakshman wants to put himself in? I'm not convinced about that because Lakshman is literally one of the nicest guys you can meet in cricket. He's not someone who goes looking for confrontation. And with the Indian job, the Indian national coaching job comes, Confrontation comes, controversy comes, finger pointing comes, blame.
Does Lakshman want to take all that on? I'm not so sure about that. And it also is about the fact that we don't really have a sense of who the future Indian captain is in many ways, right. We we are in a state of flux, even as far as the sort of leadership of the team goes. Does that also make it harder in terms of picking a coach?
I'm not so sure you know that is such a critical role in picking a coach now because you're always going to have a bit of uncertainty around who your next captain is. You might have a succession plan, but it doesn't always pan out exactly how you imagine it. I mean, Shubman Gill is 1 obvious candidate to be an all format captain.
Jasprit Bumrah is another one. But as a fast bowler with his workload and the kind of management that goes around his play, he's not likely to be a long term prospect. Rishabh Pant is another one who's thought of very highly in all circles and is an all format player.
So I think the obvious candidates for long term Indian captaincy would be Shubman Gill and Rishabh Pant And and these are guys who've come through the system, who worked with many of these coaches, worked with different coaches in the IPL, been in different dressing rooms. So I think any coach that steps in will be able to form a partnership, a working partnership of sorts with whoever the the future Indian captain will be.
And in terms of Lakshman, he's also part of that sort of golden generation of Indian cricket after that. Is there a sort of line that exists in terms of the Indian cricketers, former cricketers, who would fit into this bill? Well, from a coaching perspective and a mentorship perspective, you've seen many people do well in the IPL. Gautam Gambhir is a classic example. He seems to succeed with all the teams he works with.
He's known to be a very passionate character, like a permanent angry young man, kind of chap. But in terms of cricketing acumen, in terms of decision making, in terms of getting the best out of the players, he seems to be able to do the job. The players of that golden generation, as you call it, have a kind of stature that perhaps some others don't have, but you look at some others. Virender Sehwag has expressed interest in coaching.
He doesn't have a track record. We have no idea what kind of coach or man manager he might be. Ashish Nehra has been very successful in his coaching roles at various levels and if you go one step below, there have been plenty of others who are not of the same stature but who have had tremendous success in cricket, who've also done well as coaches. Now, the Indian national coaching job obviously has been one in the past where you needed a player of extremely high stature.
You've not had an Indian coach in recent times who's not had that profile as a player himself. So I think that makes it a little bit trickier. We also have reports of the BCCI approaching Chennai Super Kings Stephen Fleming to also potentially take charge again with him. What do we know of him as a coach that you know would result in the BCCI even approaching
him? Well, Fleming's approach has largely been one of working in the background and supporting his captain and the team, especially with Chennai Super Kings, and that's an obvious one. It's a no brainer because Dhoni's been captain of that
side for so long. So it's always been Dhoni's team, and Fleming has been the kind of coach who works in the background, sets up the right environment, makes sure players have the best opportunities in terms of practice, in terms of preparation, in terms of, you know, all the setup that happens before a game or a series and then hands over the team, in a manner of speaking, to the captain for him to run it, Fleming's not the kind of person who's likely to get involved in
tactics. He's not likely to send messages halfway through a game to the captain on the field or to batsmen during a partnership. He's he's much more a person who lays the foundation, sets things up and then lets the captain run with it. And is that something that we'd even want in the as an Indian coach? Because wouldn't we want someone who's at least visibly more present in the sense of do we want a person who's always seems to be doing something, unlike somebody who just does the work
behind the scenes? Well, I think if any foreign coach comes in, he will have to be someone who works largely in the background and behind the scenes. We saw what happened with Greg Chappell when he was perhaps the most outspoken and strident Indian coach. Indians in general don't tend to accept instruction or criticism from foreigners very well, even if they are hired to do exactly
that job. So I think if a foreign coach came in, he would have to be someone who worked in the background, just as John Wright did with tremendous success as Gary Kirsten did as well. You barely saw Gary Kirsten during his tenure as coach. And India was #1 in all formats. India won the 50 over World Cup, but it was always Ms. Dhoni and his team. It was not Gary Kirsten's team.
So I think if a foreign coach came in, he would have to be necessarily someone who worked in the background and let the captain take the credit for all the success that happens. Also, would have hiring someone like Fleming indicate that T20 is the sort of primary format in many ways and acknowledges that that's, well, the future of the sport and we need to have a coach who also works in that format the best?
I don't believe so. I think India is still one of those countries that is pushing hard for the primacy of Test cricket. I think Test cricket still matters a lot, especially with India having reached the World Test Championship final twice and never having won it. There's also been a push for perhaps considering venues outside of England for that final, which would, you know, make a big difference I think to teams from the subcontinent.
So I don't think the appointment of this coach will be one that signals, you know, the importance of T20 cricket. Sure, T20 cricket is on top of everyone's minds at the moment because this is the T20 World Cup year. But I think by and large, one day cricket's still thriving in India, much more so than in many other countries.
The 50 over format still has life in it and Test cricket might not attract the biggest crowds, but there is following, there is viewership and for the players it's still pretty much the most important format there is going around. So I don't think that's going to change necessarily in the near future. I don't think that's going to influence the choice of coach. Why don't we have that sort of different coaches for different formats?
Because the thinking of T20 seems to be quite different from what it is for ODIs or even Tests. Should we perhaps be thinking on the lines of separate coaches, or does that formula just not work? There's no reason why it should not work and I think as you correctly point out, T20 cricket is a slightly different beast. It's not a 20 over version of the 50 over game anymore. It's not just an abridged, limited over game, it's played
completely differently. It's still bat and ball and all of that, but it's a completely different mindset. It's a completely different approach. It calls for a completely different mental set of skills from players. It calls for a different outlook on how to approach batting and bowling, and there's no reason why it shouldn't call for a different outlook in terms of coaching. I think there is definitely a case to be made to treat 2020 cricket as different from the
other two formats. I think having one coach for the Test and ODI team still works perfectly fine, but there is no obvious reason not to bring in a different mindset, fresh set of eyes and ears for the T20 format. Do foreign coaches perhaps do better with Indian teams just because they're a little more objective and less subject to all the madness that cricket brings with it in India?
Well, there is an advantage to a foreign coach in that they can bring with them a natural detachment from certain aspects of Indian cricket. The pressures on them are going to be a little less, well, maybe not less. They're going to be different kinds of pressures.
If you're a former Indian cricketer and you're in the Indian setup, then you already know a lot of the stakeholders in the game and you're bound to hear their opinions, whether you take it on board, whether you listen to it, how you implement things. It might be more difficult to be completely independent as a former Indian cricketer. But having said that, being a former Indian cricketer also means you've come from the same system.
You understand how it works, You understand what the pitfalls are. So I'm not so sure it's as much about whether it's a foreigner or an Indian, but about the individual in question. I think if the setup can find the right person with the right kind of approach. A bit of open mindedness, a bit of willingness to take criticism, willingness to take a backward step when things are not really going your way and again take a backward step when
things are going your way. Because the players do really have all the power in the sport in India. So when there is glory, it will go to the players. I think someone who understands this kind of mindset will do well as a coach in the Indian setup. And in the end, it will be the BCCI that makes the final call. And usually we tend to have a pretty good sense of who it's going to be just before the finalization is done.
But what will a potential candidate also have to deal with when he has to deal with the sport's most powerful board? So when dealing with the richest or most powerful cricket board in this instance or in another situation, an organization, a company, a country, an individual, there's always going
to be an imbalance of power. Whichever person this potential coach is, however great a cricketer he might have been, whatever his track record might be as coach, he's still not going to be anywhere near as powerful as the people who run the cricket board in India. And he anyone coming into the job has got to know that the flip side of this is once that person gets the job, he can be assured that he will have the backing of the most powerful cricket board in the business.
He will have access to the best possible resources, infrastructure, best possible personnel, apart from perhaps an extremely overcrowded schedule because there's so much demand on Indian cricketers to be playing all the time. Apart from that, the coach will have pretty much a free hand in setting the agenda of what he needs to do for to give the team the best chance of succeeding. So I think yes, it's difficult dealing with the most powerful board in the world, but it also
comes with a lot of benefits. Today's episode was produced by Jayaraj Singh and Sahil Gupta. For a daily spotlight on people, ideas, and stories that matter, subscribe to us. We're available on TOI Plus, Spotify, Apple, Google Podcasts, and all other platforms of your choice. For any new steps, e-mail us at TOI Podcast at Timesinternet dot in.