From India's largest Newsroom. I'm are enjoyed, and this is the times of India podcast. Maddie of Eid Brush movie decade. The film are the poorest which is based on the ramen has been facing brickbat since its release on the 16th of June one aspect of the film that's been targeted. Incessantly, is the dialogue writing. Then dialogue from the character Hanuman and many others have been changed to try and end the
outrage. However the criticism has continued with even the allahabad high court weighing in actor, Arun, Google who portrayed Lord Ram in the ramen and Swagger TV show in the 1980s. Hadn't seen the film when he was interviewed but was a little less scathing in his opinion. A Chinese lunar management. A shield who's the dialogue writer of the film attempted to explain the use of mooc colloquial. Turns of phrase might have an explanation for why the dialogues was so badly received.
He says an epic like the ramayana is expected to evoke certain emotions and if the portrayal fails to achieve that, it's not going to be spread by an audience. In today's episode they've got is in conversation with Gerard sing and me about what went wrong with the latest retelling of the Timeless. Remind we talk about why Indian epics don't make for very good superhero films and the problem with trying to retell our epics to fit certain templates.
These are they seeing a lot of criticism for new films that have been coming out about our myths, and our gods and recent film recently, really caught it over the way how God speak in it. What is it about? God speaking in a familiar way almost like you and I talk in regular conversations that turns us off so much about it. You see it's about the notion of Epic story telling you know around the world. Every culture has Epic story telling and look what is an epic.
It is a story about larger-than-life characters. None of them are ordinary. They're not you and me even if there is a minor character in the film, he's Larger than Life and especially in India when you talk about ramayana and Mahabharata because of the popular ones, but they're Fork
narratives. For example, if you were to present a Legend of Zelda boddah shivaji Maharaj in Maharashtra, or if you're going to tell the story of Krishna Deva Raya Any of these characters, you know you want this larger-than-life
image. And that's what happens when they walk into the room, the way they speak the diction and there is this thing about in India but language real value language a lot God speak Sanskrit. It's a very big thing that the language of the Gods is sanskrit and it's Aria Basha the language of the noble people. And therefore even when you know, you have television serials in the About it. They use words like Peta shitty and Martha.
SRI, are you create new words which sort of elevate the conversation to a different plane? And I think that is what you expect from epic characters. Even if I'm doing a film say, on Jesus Christ or some, you know, this is this film called, Jesus Christ Superstar, somebody didn't people founded disrespectful, but the aim was to be disrespectful. They were not trying to be a respectful story, but if you are making a Film.
Like if you're seeing Passion of the crash was Aramaic is used in the just by using Aramaic or Hebrew. You make the sound so different that it look Grand, everything sounds Grant. And I think that is what you expect. There is something called High language that is expected in epic characters. Epic stories even with the Jesus Christ Superstar or even a more sort of popular retelling of Apex.
The reason you use the Mucca, local language is also to sort of get the message to Connect with an audience that may not be familiar with it, right? Cheese's, I am Overjoyed to meet you face to face. You've been getting quite a name all around the place, it just connects better with audiences. That may not know. The sun's criticized words that they are expected to in some ways and therefore you spread the message while sticking to their language.
So it's not just language, is also content, how will you speak in any A language, the something called a graceful language. There is a civilized language is the refined language. There is a barbaric language. There is a pedestrian language if epic character starts talking pedestrian language, this top being epic, you strip them of their epic Aura. It's also the words that you use the words when you are referring to your parents. So it's the way we talk.
Like, when I'm talking to my father and mother, I'll talk very differently when I talked to my friend, I'll talk very different. When I'm on stage, the conversations are so different. Nobody talks the way Shakespeare. But we need that dialogue because it's a performance. And in the, we are not pretending the documentary, we know very well.
You know, when you see a lot of the Rings, when you see the grand epic, you know, the even when you seeing some of the shows on TV, the way the dialogues are told it's all done, you know, theatrical dramatic, and you want to evoke those emotions. It's not just the dialogue will see, that's writes the RAM and he knows that he's not writing in Sanskrit. He was criticized for it. How dare you write it in his body?
But he language the local language but he did not compromise on the quality of the meter. The quality of the words, the his poetry is considered to be a it - poetry is considered to be sophisticated when you talk about combines drama and again it's considered very good thermal the way it is presented with a bar Our armor is very focused, every Caesar salad has Mahabharat.
Is also very folk but there's a reverence when he talks about the Divine. There is a kind of a, although it's folksy to connect to the people.
But whenever the Divine comes, there's a kind of a description of grandeur that accompanies, what is called at the boutrous the other motorist is about a feeling of, oh and you should feel this awesomeness when you feel these characters and I think these are things that play a very important role, especially when Italy epic Tale. Where's now seeing in, in this so-called New India, this attempt to redo the epics to, to take fresh inspiration from our epics.
We've seen this in this new film, and we've also seen it in films like rrr where we're seeing ramayana being adopted. Where do you feel is this fine line between what is acceptable and then not unacceptable? I think ultimately is the audience that he decides. What is acceptable? Bill because we should be careful sensor. Boards are deciding what is acceptable? There are spiritual leaders and Muhammad's were deciding. What is acceptable. Please understand our sense of
what is perfectly fine. If a man slaps a woman, they think it's perfectly fine, but make it very disturbed if a woman is pleasuring herself. So that tells you a lot about these kind of a various. What is acceptable? But is not acceptable if you are doing a Rumba and and urvashi who is a up, Sarah a damsel who is meant to seduce you an inch onto their all. All Epic magical characters. What kind of conversation would be speak? Would they be like talk like a bar dancer?
Will that be acceptable? Because just because they are courtesans and Celestial courtesans, ultimately the audience decides whether they feel it's elevating them. There is kalu Kurama and you can do Mahabharat Gourmet those kind of things people have played with these re-imagining, but what is happening with the current generation of Filmmakers and storytellers. It's too eager to be famous and they are, there is no homework done, they actually do not know the epochs. They are.
They are telling Rama and story in a it's almost like a Revenge drama because that's what gets you the ratings right. And I know because I've worked with film people, I mean I know in corporate setups. People think krishna's Vita is basically a motivational speech to make more money, you know, go and kill your enemy and whatever it's like a brave heart. Stelling you go and kill your enemy and I'm like, that's not
what the Gita is about. Or if ROM is fighting revered, it's not that you really, you know, you have stick in my wife of a and I want back. The conversations are larger than just the simple Act of attacking lunker to recover Sita. It's not a Hindi film Revenge drama. Remember these are called traditionally punch invade the fifth graders. They trying to communicate Vedic, ideas through RAM and Mahabharata. What are these? Medical Ideas. Can we make a list of those?
I don't see these filmmakers even interested in those ideas. The the they use the right words but they don't understand these words notches the talks about it. Does it come from the soul? Do you know what you're saying? Or are you just performing the quality of dialogues catches all those things? What is a Shakespearean actor? Bring to the table. The intonation is the kind of a in depth. I mean, otherwise you wouldn't have this to such subjects like Dramatics and not a shastra.
How do you become RAM on stage? How do you become Krishna on stage? I remember somebody was telling me re Jetta you or Robert car, chase scene, brother, Chao satire, nobody talk that language. Then you are like okay interesting, this is you know because I said what are you trying to evoke through that and he doesn't get it when I'm asking this question because when valmiki in is trying to evoke something, they want you to feel what it means to be abducted, a Jedi uses.
Does not interested. He is knowing that she does not know relation of his, but the fact that he is spreading his wings and tried to block reward, why would you do that the ability to help someone whom you don't know? And that has to be elevated know these ideas. If you tell this, I can see the Bollywood guy, looking at you, the very strange and peculiar way, because it's like okay, how will this get any more seats in the auditorium because he's
focused on box office, right? He's not focused on. Elevating the soul and the spirit. Spirit when to see the cinema, adulteress is ready grandma and he's not talking about box office. He's not talking about Roi, he's talking about how do I Elevate the soul of my audience then valmiki's writing it, you know, it says sjokz the shloka Claire, that's the original line. How Rama and was came to be written from sorrow. Came poetry for pain came poetry.
He is not saying when I say this 500 people become and I'll get a super hit show and I'll get an Oscar, the intention of the remind us to communicate the fifth graders. Right? He betrays not interested in the fifth graders. They interested in Hindu rashtra. It's a political agenda. It has nothing to do with the elevation of the Soul. It's nothing to do with jeeve, Atma paramatma, the elevation of humanity being kind generous Noble, aristocratic August.
These are not the agendas either of the politician or their sponsored filmmakers or dialogue writers, or directors. What does Hanuman represent has a robber shift? Bhakta something like that. I said, what does it mean? And for them shift Buck is wearing a, she and sitting in front and doing some poses, and I'm like, that's performance. What does it mean? What are you trying to communicate? Why is valmiki making his villain a shiv birth? Why is she insisting that?
My villain shall be a Brahmin. Those are questions to be asked, why is a golden deer important for valmiki? Why does he not use a Golden Goose? What is special about the And the, that is a lot of thought gone into it now. It's not random, but if you tell this, then this audio intellectualizing it, but it is intellectual. It is philosophical. It is spiritual. That's why the knot and key and Natasha's. They're always separated one appeals to the audience and one appeals to the soul.
What do you want to appeal to? Is the question you seeing a very Marvel ization of of, of ram right now, you know, with with CGI withdraw. Even looking like a, you know, modern day, you know, kg in a sense and this is seems to be like an extension of the ROM that we suddenly started seeing in the late 80s, early 90s in India, when he suddenly started sporting a threshold, a sword and axe.
He was looking angry and yet Tone, but I wanted to ask you is has, you know, has this reinterpretation of ramp in constant Through the Ages. No, this is a new phenomenon. You see the irony of the Hindu through movement, is this a? We want to decolonize India but it's a project of colonization. The Western mind says, the world is made of you use the word evil, right? Can translate the word evil in any Indian language. You cannot translate it.
This whole idea of vampires, zombies bats being evil, these are not Indian ideas is a western ideas. The fact that you make push Fuck women as a bat because the West says bat is equal to zombies equal to evil and black color is evil. You are using Western troops. You have created this binary word of God and the devil, or good and bad angels and demons. And that's a very Western troop. Which you are now putting into Rama and Rama and Rama has never
considered evil. He's considered to be an egomaniac but egomaniac is not evil ego. Maniac is an egomaniac. The Of evil doesn't exist in Hinduism, it doesn't exist in Buddhism. How do you explain this to the filmmakers of Bollywood and they do it. So it's complex idea for that Ramadan. Soccer is very clear. He said I will not mess with tool sees ramcharitmanas.
He had seen the Ram Leela. He noodles here, I'm Seth Meyers and if you look carefully at Rommel Sagar, he is his presence in. The story is minimal in the sense of he selected, the actors and all that, but he's very sensitive to the Ram Leela traditions of North India. He is very familiar with ramcharitmanas and he doesn't really mess with that. And he's familiar with the vocabulary on stage. That's why it evokes that, you know, mongolab Havana and all these lines immediately.
What is mangala, bhavana? What does it mean? I mean I asked people, what does it mean? Please ask tell me, what does it mean that they don't know what they mean is and italic to her? It's suspicious imagination, auspicious, creation of space and now creating an auspicious Space by narrating. The remind these are very complex. Say ideas. I think the great respect I have for rubber on sagas because he said this is traditional I will not play with it.
These guys don't understand tradition and they are now taking Marvel this. So enamored by the white skin and Hollywood that they have so much less respect for India. They think that if I become like the white man, I will get respect and that's where it comes from. The fact that you have put a bat in pushpaka.
Vimana when in most art forms, it's a swan or some bird or, you know, you have You can look at the giant art which shows the man has all the time and these are swans and parrots and peacocks and Indian Birds. It's never a bad golden Lanka becomes black charcoal black. It shows the Western idea that God the force of Bordeaux, it's a lot of the Rings which is tolki and which is based on Viking. Mythology Channel, click mythology.
You're showing one of has it looks like a picnic spot it like a romantic. So one of us is Terror of the forest but nobody loves you. Nobody cares for you that is what revolving is try to evoke. Zombie Evil. So it's not that I mind anymore. It's a some magical thing and hindutva project is Hindu rashtra. It's very strongly based on islamophobia. We know that they have no bones about it. So you have to show your villain eating meat because somehow meat
eating is evil. And therefore, Robert has to eat meat and people get upset that how can a Brahmin eat meat. I saw one of them beams going around that. How can the Brandon eat meat with Brandon's eat? Meat all the time around India, in many parts of India, Northern, you know, fishes, Zoomed by the coastal brandman's, especially fish is consumed. You have these things but you can't talk about these things. Right? Nowadays, this imaginary vegetarian brahmanism, Hinduism is being proposed.
It's a valid political agenda and you want to use it as a political strategy, and a propaganda film, make it and therefore the appropriating ramen Ramen, everybody, and the trying to create some mishmash of the world view, but it's not reminded ago, it's not valmiki's, ramayana and it's not too serious, as an armored car company.
It's not cooked about ceramic, all of whom were very clear that telling the story of The Vedas, the telling the story of Vishnu, they're telling the story of an avatar on Earth. It's about, put the har, it's about the soul, it's about ego. It's about Pride arrogance, those, none of those things matter in these modern retellings, I don't think they're interested in their mind, at all. Sita's, dialogues are silly. And, you know, Hanuman is like this. There is this kind of a series
of phrenic. Behavior. They talk funny, Lee and we'll see, but he's very educated educated people talk in a particular way. That's what it means. When you say, you are educated. So there has to be a correlation between description Behavior projection. But I somehow feel this has become complex ideas because he's too eager. As I said to be successful, unfortunately, Robin doesn't allow for islamophobia, that's not part of the story at all.
I remember somebody saying that I want to come Eternal, people will start hating him and I'm like, but that's sort of a long week is trying to do it. At all, he's just showing a man whose self-obsessed is narcissistic that he's destroying his own family in his Pursuit. It's almost Shakespearean ideas. You know, these very complex emotions and it's not Shakespeare, Shakespeare doesn't deal with divinity doesn't even God.
So it's not even. She experienced another level above that because the idea of God doesn't exist in Shakespeare, what is Divinity, what is Avatar? What is Vishnu? What does it mean to be Sita? What does it mean to be Hanuman? It's are not easy ideas. You've been writing on mythology for years now they've that but there seems to be this sudden new interest in remind the epics it is as if they need to be now. Freshly explained.
But do you who do you think these creatives are sort of pandering to is it to this new interest in the epics? Or this is pandering to the general political framework that India is in today. There are two things At one level globally around the world and it started roughly with the writings of JK Rowling's and the rise of Harry Potter. There was a general interest in the fantasy genre.
Indians obviously came up saying that if we have our own epics, and let's tell it. But those are heroic narratives told with a particular different style of the storytelling Indian storytelling is not heroic. Now, in this situation, the politicians come in with a very clear agenda of creating a Hindu Extra and they want any means. So this confusion at one level that they want to cook. They have an agenda and a vision statement. See?
They have to now, take the ROM ahead and reframe the Rama, and in such a way, that Sita becomes Maharaj, Ki beti, and therefore, now becomes a patriotic narrative, where Ram is going to fight for India and ravan becomes e, The Foreigner, the other, The Outsider. So that's one agenda. The second is, the world is full of Marvel Comics. So now after also add another layer of Marvel, Marvel ization disneyfication of the storytelling, right?
Wrong black white narrative. At one level, there is the political ideological agenda. Then there is this commercial disneyfication, which the market wants the children, want to your the Marvel part. So that's the audience desire. There is a politician's desired. Poor, valmiki is sitting down there wondering but neither of these is my agenda. Right, value, which is not doesn't care about Marvel and Disney. These epics were not decided, what? They don't care for it.
It was not a hero myth because I know that Western Scholars have tried to make Ramada, hero myth. It is not a little bit. A hero myth is where our hero goes through transformation. He goes from crisis to catharsis and the all these things happen around my head. While there is a crisis, there is no catharsis ROM is always shown.
As having very common, Is he breaks down that is separated from Sita, but his demeanor and mannerisms of someone who's super confident, who is not going through some dramatic change. In of the, the Japanese Drama and which is the famous film animation. Bound dust turned Ram into a hero.
And you can see the Japanese have Rewritten to make it sound like he is going through a transformation, but that's not what Nayak is supposed to do in. Not a shastra, he's Vishnu on Earth, he knows who is dealing with, he knows what he's dealing with. He's dealing with people who are egomaniacs and he's working with these people. He's working with monkeys and bears and birds. He's dealing with jealous mother's ambitious mother's,
he's dealing with faithful wives. he's dealing with gossipy people, he's dealing with Sage's, he's dealing with women with lust and he's surrounded by all these strange things. So that the structure of the narrative is very different. The whole idea that I can get monkeys to build a bridge, I can get animals to be selfless, I can demand contractual obligations have to be fulfilled when so grieve does not fulfill contractual obligations. Why is he not choosing the
strong Valley? There is a dialogue in this film. You can actually see the filmmakers do not understand why. The ram is choosing to grieve over Valley because what does Valley rep? It's not about might is right. Please understand the politician believes in might and right but remind is the opposite of Might and right? So the politicians agenda and remains agenda opposites of each other, most politicians want to be revered.
They aspire to hear about the rule breaker, the one who gets away with anything who lives in a Golden Palace, who has a private jet who can force other men's wives. Wives to be his own. This is a politician's dream. ROM is not a Polynesian dream. He is a totem to be used to become Exactly what the time and say you should not become. How do you explain this to politicians? I mean, if you speak to them, they will just sort of rebuff you ordered. Maybe send their agents behind
you. So you keep quiet one thing. That's common to again on super, although American superheroes. And it sort of superhero idea like you said one is that you sort of go through this Arc of redemption crisis and things. The other is the fact that the villain old man is almost always wants to take over the world. There is nothing. Short of that. There is always that or destroy the world. Why don't our myths of why don't myths? Typically have villains who seem
to want to do that? Why don't? Why do they limit their sort of Ambitions at a very practical level. See, that's an American thing, right? It's an American story telling, these are based on biblical narratives whether it's Harry Potter with this Lord of the Rings with its marble, but it's Disney all of them, follow a Biblical line. And what is the last chapter of the New Testament?
It is the book of The apocalypse where Satan is going to conquer destroy the creation of God. It's the last and final Jihad, right? That's where the devil is coming. And that's the story template, which is working in Middle East Europe, America on which is built the Lord of the Rings franchise. I mean, JK, Rowling split talk anything, but at the end of the day Harry Potter, he's a chosen one. Who is going to fight the devil Star Wars. You have Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker fighting.
It's like the All the white he's dressed in white and black, it can't be more Stark. Other than that, it's always white and black fighting of the devil and it's, I want to destroy the world as far as Americans are concerned, that's the ultimate devil, right? So every story they have to now up the ante. Now, you can see what's happening in the mobile world. This is sense of exhaustion. People are like tired, you know, what's to go to happen?
You they started making films where they make fun of themselves because they're only going to do the same thing, they'll come together and they'll kill a degree will come together and kill a demon in Hindu Ecology The Rock. Sure. Sir. And then the guard comes and kills the demon.
Do the that story is because those are part of a spiritual narrative to try and make ramakrishnan step one that step to try to align with the Western narrative this apocalypse, which is how Hindu rashtra is projected, right? If you do not fight the other, you will be destroyed. So it's an apocalyptic call that the politician is using. So, as I said, I Ernie is the people who say that we are preventing. We want to save ourselves from colonization and it keeps hearing all their intellectual
Stockman civilization. You are as waste your more westernized. Then I mean, it does nothing to do with valmiki. There's nothing to do with your assets or little bit under there. Everything is about other ring and creating Thanos, and creating Beelzebub, been creating Satan and trying to force Robert into that. Template is so tragic, that you have turned golden Lanka. Into a charcoal pile.
That's the tragedy. And you have made Robert the great musician and the great scholar of ayurveda, and astrology, a very do and you're calling this, it harmik project. I mean, I the irony is like unbelievable, but they genuinely believe it because that's the level of the intellectual discourse. I've been actually, I was surprised the young people's outrage for the first time. You had marxists getting outraged with proper. How does that I grew up with this and how can I get to watch
this? No, no. Most atheists. Secular boxes people in State of Shock because an artistic level, forget about the spiritual level, and an artistic level is a travesty But I still want to go into this, but why don't? I will and seem to want more. Why do they end at this? Why don't they ever seem to own more than silicon Robin's? Ambitions didn't extend beyond say acquiring Sita in a sense? Indian mythology is not based on the external world, but always, the internal world, the Western
narrative. Remember him saying God, created the world? So what is God's enemy going to do? Wanting to destroy the world? Greek mythology does not have villains who want to conquer the world. And you have this strange monsters like Medusa and Chimera who are destroyed because they don't fit into the neat, Greek template of fitting in to a system. So Greek stories are very different from Biblical stories. In Greek mythology, the hero is
a tragic figure. He succeeds, he becomes great, and he falls a complex thing, but is never about conquering the world, the great fights between the Giants and the gods is not about. It's about becoming the the mightiest of them all. This is a Peculiar both biblical, as well as American ambition, it's an imperial ambition of America Britain, where it's coming from India's never had these stories. We never, none of our valence wanted to conquer the world ramayana and Mahabharata Robert
property disputes. It's about what is mine and what should it be mind and what should be yours and it's about distribution of wealth and property. How is your wife? My wife and I you know, this remind is about that. It's Lanka belongs to Kabir And Robert has taken it from his brother. It's not his kingdom. It's something that he's taken from his brother. While the opposite is with Raam Raam Raam gives his kingdom to Barrett and says, I don't want it in butter, gives it back to him.
So you see in our your they are the conversation with the things are not part of ramen conversations of Bollywood right, the property disputes that Ram is saying till Bharat Kina, you keep it in. Balance is no but it's yours or for that matter. While on the other side you have a villain called Robert who steals the property of his brother. Audio valiance. Agree fighting over kishkinda. So it's a property dispute very clearly and we don't need to be very smart to refigure out.
Three kingdoms with Three Brothers are fighting, and one brother is RAM is refusing to fight. S Ram is not an ambitious person. He is a king because he is the eldest son. It's his duty. He doesn't want to be king. He has to be king because he's the eldest son. How do you explain this to ambitious? Politicians? Ambitious, dialogue, writers, ambitious filmmakers, they don't Stand. The idea that Rahm is not ambitious. He's doing, is Burma his obligation to be the eldest son,
right? He's saving Sita. Not because my wife has been taken away. I want my wife back. That's very property. Oriented Ram is saying as a husband, it's my duty to protect my wife as a king. It is my duty to protect my subject. Therefore I'm fighting this war so it's a very clear conversation. Shit. It's not a personal to name a re but Nikola Mirotic. Mrdanga, that's a Bollywood dialogue. That's not Rams dialogue.
ROM is saying I'm the king. The subjects have to be protected from someone who usurps now, these are ideas which are very powerful in literature. King's duty is to ensure that everybody's property is protected, and he is both King and husband in the story. And therefore, he is serving himself in the narrative but the Manatees are far more elevated than that. That is what the conversations are and the stories of loyalty
kumbhakarna is loyal. The be assured is chooses that, you know, what is, right and wrong. You cannot take someone else's Wi-Fi will not be loyal, a politician who loves loyal people cannot fathom the idea therefore he hates a character like the vision because we bishan says no this is wrong. Think of one Indian politician will allow that. Not one Indian politician will understand the Visions character and that is reflective of the
writers of the story. These new retellings, I always tell people by reading the new retellings. You you can understand the personality of the storytellers, they contrarians who want to be gravel to the hero. There are feminists who want to make soup Anika a hero there are politicians. Who want to be rewarded something like a kin to a Muslim reader there are seeing. What is the al-baqi trying to communicate valmiki's. Come talking about. What is mine? What is yours? What is property?
What is boundaries? What a hierarchies? How will of God behave in a situation where he is made the prince? The king of ayodhya. How will he behave? Will be attached to you there? And these are the ideas that they're trying to. We are talking about this may or Mira to, or Theta this possess Pronoun, which does not exist. Its cultural words, mind yours. This is my, this is yours. These are not natural words. These are cultural words, I'll give you an example.
The word, bhagavaan we translate in English is God. It doesn't mean God, the word bhagawan comes from, you know, the root word is Burger, which means to cut bog between two cuts is the portion bog. So we all the world's resources are divided. Amongst us? What is my portion? What does Your potion, who knows the correct way to apportion, right? That's the fight between socialist, capitalist and all over the world. Bhagavad knows all portions.
The one keeper of all the portions, the one who knows to a poor? Now, this is not the meaning of almighty God. It's a different meaning is sure is perhaps more closer to the concept of almighty. God, the great ishwara the master, the Lord but Bhagavad is more at a material Level of What is should be your share?
What is a fair share and that gets even more complicated in Hinduism because we're talking about rebirth because your share is not just determined by the Merit and the action of what you do now. But what have you done before? Today's episode was produced by Jay Raj, Singh soon. I moratti and on Vijay Singh for a daily Spotlight. On people ideas and stories that matter subscribe to us, we're available on T. Y+ Spotify, Apple Google podcast and all other platforms of your choice.
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