The Things We Do... - Interview with Taliesin Don

We are recording now and then yeah, anything you do say now. On the record. Yes. Taking to court. Yeah. You're in court right now. This is where you belong. So yeah, I hope you enjoyed 10 years on the job. Right. This is my like sworn in, like this is my bible, swear it in now. Can you list the 10 commandments? You know, this is your moment. Um, thou shalt not lie. Or is that like a... That is one of them, I think. Thou shalt not lie with thy neighbour. Yeah. Wow, that just sounds very intimate.

Um, mm, mm. Yep. Bit well. These are the things we do podcast, a podcast about film, life, television, culture, mental health and all of that fun, jazzy stuff. Today I've got my special guest and friend, Taliesin Don. Hello. Hello. If you're way harder to say your full name, Taliesin Don, than it is in, in systematic order. It's not a hard name. It's not a hard name, but I feel like Taliesin Don, like, it's just like the T and then maybe the D. I think it's the ND. The D. The Nnd and Don.

Taliesin's quite flowery and then Don's like Don. Yeah. What's, where, what a last name? Yeah. And it's like, it's an English last name that is just, I mean, I think people, when they hear my first name, they're expecting a really, really long, flowery last name too. And then I'm just like, Don. You're like, just Don. Three, three letters. Yeah. You're very like. And you're done. Yeah. It explains a lot.

Yeah. Um, and so in like, it's just, I think the juxtaposition between the two names are like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a bit Joan, but. Yeah. I mean, like, I love that. Um, because I didn't realize it was an English name. I thought it would have been very much like, uh. Don. Yeah. It doesn't sound like an English, although it probably is a very English name because yeah, if I look back at history, there was a lot of like. Don's. Don's. Don's. A lot of Don's. Um, yeah.

No, like there's English far, like lots in my Sri Lankan side of the family, like English men, marrying Sri Lankan men, you know, just a camera. Like, filtering through the last names, really, sowing their seeds. What a start. Can I just say if you, if we're, if anyone's just started listening, I'm sorry, we're talking already about sowing seeds and, and those disgusting men. So, Talitin, I know who you are.

You've known each other for a couple of years, but obviously only a handful of the people on the internet know who you are. Would you like to tell everyone who you are and what you do? Well, I'm surprised anyone on the internet knows me. Um, I'm Talitin. I'm an actress, writer, model. Um, I'm currently working on my first short film. Um, been in lots of things with you, done Dr. Hustaf, um, was in Iron Woman a couple of years ago.

Um, I studied overseas in New York, um, worked over here a little bit, and I'm just plotting along, loving life. Living, living your best. Living my best life. Living my best artistic life, trying to, trying to do my thing. I love that. Yeah. I, I love how much optimism you always have. The optimism is, um, it's clouding, clouding all the other things. It's like, if you don't do it with a smile, you're going to be dead.

You know, because, because the, I think the funny thing is like when, when people may tell you something, we've chatted about this as well. Like, you know, that, um, the long conversation we had where it was like you have resting bitch face. Oh yeah. Uh, it just looks like because you, when you rest, you just don't have much of an expression, but you're really lovely and sweet. But everyone's just like, ah, I just look at her, look one, the second in her and I'm like, oh man, she's awful.

She's so mean. Is that what you thought of me? No, I didn't personally. What have other people thought of that? I think you thought that, that was what other people had thought of you the first time they met you. I mean, I, I mean, I do think that because people have said that to my face. I mean, we even spoke about that at lunch today. Like my friends and I went out to lunch and, um, they were like, Tilly, you're just, you don't have an approachable face. Is that, is just not in general?

Yeah. Or like you just, you don't look all that approachable sometimes and then you smile and that's fine. That, they're like, oh no. Awkward smile. But yes, I guess it's the resting bitch face or the, I don't know, the tallness. The imposing height. I mean, it's not that imposing.

I, it irritates me that people think it's imposing, um, because you are just the height that you are and there is nothing, you know, wrong with that, but I, you are quite tall, which, you know, the average, you're above the average high for women, which is like 181 in centimeters. Yeah, 183. So like six foot. Yeah. So bang on. Um, was that always expected when you were going? Yeah. So they, they doubled my height when I was two and which is the thing that you can do and the, I didn't realize it.

Yeah. Um, so the pediatrician was like, she's going to be tall. Expect her to be like five, 11, six foot. Mum was like, all right. Okay. We'll see. And then we did. And you're like, shit. Um, cause like when did you shoot up? When did, when did that happen? I mean, I was always tall. Um, and then like around you six, all the other girls. Were really tall and then I think I was maybe like the third tallest, but still one of the tallest.

And then like you seven, I started to really shoot up and I was just taller than everyone and then at 16, I like shot up straight to five, 11. So I'm just going to, that's perfect. Now just talk. Hello. Now just tilt it down slightly. Little in between. Perfect. Oh, it was perfect. Oh, look at that. I can hear you perfectly in my ears now. Um, okay. So that was kind of like a aged in between point and then, and then suddenly you just went, yeah. I mean, I was never not tall. I was always tall.

Um, but yeah, I think like 15, 16 was and I like just gross giant. Yeah. I want to say, I don't want to say giant cause like it's still a normal height, but like every other person around me was probably like five, eight. And I was like, yeah. I mean, that's look, I, you know, I think, I think it's also kind of like I'm used to, I obviously have a lot of tall friends. So I'm very used to seeing women who are various different heights.

Um, but yeah, I think, I think it's like that is, uh, I didn't realize nutritionist could be like, just expect, she is too, to be this tall when she's like in her teens. That is like unheard of. I don't even think my doctor's guessed how tall I'd actually be. No, it's, yeah, it's like a thing. Yeah. Cause I remember like, I think with all my medication and everything, they thought I'd stop at like 175 and I beat them by like six enemies. Yeah. So I'm like, watch me.

Yeah. Just put me on a stretching board like that. Just strap me down, please pull on my spine. Um, but no. Yeah. Did you ever watch the movie white chicks and they, um, they said to their friends, like they, um, we had our knees done and then I used to really hope that that was a real surgery because they could elongate themselves. I was like, maybe I can like shorten my legs. We just like a half like cut a bone and then like fuse the bone together. Just cut a couple of inches off.

Wow. So did you really hate being that tall? Yeah. Do you still hate it? No, it's okay now. I don't hate it. But you've kind of like grown into it. It's annoying for like some film things because, you know, so many actors are tiny. Um, and I'm, you know, I don't think I'm like right for every world because I'm like a certain type of look, you know, but that's also like a gross generalization. Yeah. I'm like, you know, what the industry puts out there, but, um, no, I don't like, I don't mind it.

Like it's, you know, because now if I see someone who's taller than me in a room, I'm like, how dare you? You're like, I will cut your feet off. That's my thing. I will damage your bones so you are not as tall as I am. Suddenly there's a murder scene just at the end of the day and you've just killed all the tall people in the room who are taller than you. And they're like, we're looking for a woman who is six.

But yeah, like I do agree with you on the fact that, you know, you know, you are grossly, you know, underlocked because of your height as well. I mean, like what I think, um, cause you do have like, uh, you know, cause obviously model industry and stuff, but you do have a striking look.

But I think it's interesting cause I know we've chatted about this and I think the difference is between like, you know, when you're an actor and you're a performer, that a look, how you look naturally doesn't mean how you could look in a film. And those are two very different things, but people automatically assume. And I think a bit and like just low independent stuff, um, that they just don't really look past like the surface level.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I always say that like you have yourself and then you have your actor's self, you know, because like there are so many different people who are like introverted, but they play very extroverted people on camera or on stage, but that's their actor's self.

And like the characters I play are very different to who I am as a person because they like, it leans to the type that I am, like of how I look, of how like my, my essence or whatever, you know, you know, very different inside. Yeah. Cause you, you and I are very similar in the fact that we are quite introverted people, and kind of just a bit weird in the nicest possible way. Don't think we're strange. Um, or do I don't mind.

Yeah, we make all the jokes here is already, but yeah, like you're a bit of a, I think you, I think people automatically assume that you're this sort of, um, I think like glamorous automatically when you're kind of an, what do you say? Shut up. But no, I think, I think you're, you know, like seeing you in your natural habitat is kind of like a bit nerdy, a bit, you know, geeky, you like certain things. You have an interest in like stories and ideas and stuff like that. And you kind of like.

Yeah. Well, I think so many people like, like to pigeonhole people, especially they like to pigeonhole women. So they're like, well, you're, you're tall, you model, you look like this, you may have a resting bitch face. So you must, you must not like, you know, other things. You must not like reading or, you know, you must not have a sensitive side. You must not be introverted and like spending time at home. Yeah. Or, you know, you must not like reading fantasy books or whatever.

But you must like glitzy, glamorous things. And I still like glitzy, glamorous things. And I love makeup and I love clothes, but I like them in my own way. Yeah. You know, and those things that, you know, you can have many different boxes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I think, I think it's like, um, what were you wearing? You had your like Wonder Woman kind of esk shirt, um, on when, like, um, um, you know, um, we did filming your T-shirt and stuff like that.

And you've just got like little bits and pieces that are kind of like things that you like. And then, you know, not, you know, everyone kind of looks past that because they sort of look, how you were on your face and that like, nah, she can't like these nerdy things. Yeah. I wore a, um, um, a Led Zeppelin shirt once, like to an acting class and this guy like saw my shirt and he was like, name three songs, go name them. He was like, what? He was like, your shirt.

If you're wearing that shirt, you must like it or you just want to those girls that wear those shirts. He's like, oh, don't put me on the spot. Like my anxiety, I can't name them now because now I've forgotten anything like anything that exists ever. Yeah. He was like, oh my God, shut up. Yeah. Cause like, you know, I, I think it's like for you, um, you know, and I know you, you and I have talked about anxiety as well. Um, do you, I think, you know, what are you thinking?

What do you say in like, especially in your early days in acting as well as now, have you noticed like an improvement to how your treat is an individual as a woman? Like treated as like, um, like a performer or as a person. I mean, I think I've always been treated pretty nicely. Um, I think when I was really young, cause I started, like, especially when I went to acting school, I was only 17. Um, and so I was one of the youngest people there.

Yeah. I was in the early 20s, even late 20s and I was not even able to drink. And so I think I was probably still treated very much like a child. Um, but then again, I, I get like the child thing because I'm young or I still get like the adult thing because I'm so tall, like people don't usually always treat me like an adult. Um, but like, I think I've had pretty good experiences, especially on sets because I haven't worked on that many professional sets.

Um, and I, again, I, I think I've had a lot of experience with that. I think because of the way that I look, people don't always think that they can mess with me. Like I think they're sometimes a little bit afraid of me and they don't think that I'm like a soft, sweet person. And so when I'm in like a group, they'll be the one to address me. They'll ask me the questions. Um, the one that orders. Um, I'm like, people like, I think wouldn't want to like step on my toes when.

Where, where if they did, I would probably cry. Cause I know, you know, that's actually probably not true. I'm like very, I can stand up for myself really well, but um, I think maybe just the air that I give off people don't really, um, want to, I don't know. I agree with that. I think it's also like, um, I think, I think you're one of those people who, you know, um, slowly opens up. Yeah. And so, you know, cause we've known each other, you know, to, you know, about two years now.

Um, and even then like we've kind of like definitely opened up to each other, but it has been a slow kind of like, you know, um, getting to know you. And that's nothing bad, but it, you know, I think immediately, you know, that's probably cause I think a lot of people have the assumption that people just automatically open like a wide open book. And some people do. And then like that's great. Um, like again, like I was saying, I had a conversation with my friends at brunch today.

Um, and they were like, yeah, we thought you were a completely different person when we first met you. Like cause I met two of my best friends when we were three of us started working at the same job. Um, and they're like, yeah, you just, you seemed kind of like a bitch. You were quiet and then we got to know you and you were really weird and now we love you. Um, yeah. And it's, and it's the reason why I still continue to annoy and work with you. So all positives. Um, yeah.

No, no, I 100% agree with that statement as well. I think it's also, um, yeah, you were, you were the, the biggest compliment I think I could give you is just, you are such a delight in, in, in every possible way as a, as a friend and as a person I know, and as an actor and performer, you're just such a delight to be on set with and, and just in generally just talking to and being around. So does it kind of make everything kind of like, um, a breeze because you're so genuine.

And I love that you can't take, I don't know what to do with this. Hit me, hit me again. I'll just take it then. Hit you again. Hit me with a compliment. I'll take it. You're like, dammit, I've gotta run from the window. Yeah. I'm only got room for one. I don't want to give you a compliment when you're asking for one. Yeah. Sorry, do you mind doing something like Jesus, Jesus fucking Christ.

I mean, honestly, I think also, you know, with, with the modeling thing, how old were you when you got into modeling? How old? Um, not very, I wasn't very young. Like I sort of, um, like, double double that here and there, double double. Um, because one of my aunties was into it. And so I would like do like sort of shows with her. And then I think when I was like 18, I said, like signed with my first agency and then I did a couple of photo shoots, um, which went that fun.

They went that great experiences. I had like my first taste of like, oh, this is not what the glamorous things are. Um, you know, um, and then I took a break. Then I, you know, did lots of, um, auditions, um, going to casting calls, um, did a couple of jobs for bumble back in the day. Um, yeah. So yeah, I didn't get into it very young. I think maybe like 18 or 19. Okay. Yeah. So I wasn't jaded from like a 13 year old age.

Yeah. And it was like, I do know of this, like people have those stories where they're found on the streets. So, um, so you were kind of just like, happened to be in it because of, you know, just interest and, and. Yeah. I think it, it truly like modeling was never like an interest of mine. Yeah. It was just like what came along with acting. Interesting. Do you think, um, because where's your heart lie in terms of acting? Is it film? Is it theater? Definitely film.

Yeah. Um, do you enjoy theater acting now? Yeah, I do. Um, before I don't think I did when I, before I'd went to acting school and then, um, I did my first performances and I felt my feet on the stage and I felt the lights and, um, feeling being in front of a live audience and learning how you can just be in a space like that. I started to really fall in love with it. Um, and I have a definite appreciation for, for theater and screenplays. Um, and, and playwrights.

They just, it's also beautiful and I love reading plays all the time. Um, but I think my heart will always lie in film, but, um, but yeah, I love theater. Um, I would take a theater job any day of the week if I'm. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. Um, because like how old were you when you got into like all this jazz, like, you know, the acting world? Um, I, I think I was always really into it. Like I can't remember like a specific like Eureka moment where I was like, oh my God, acting.

I was always really into it. Um, I remember I started doing acting classes in year six, um, after school and people were like really surprised. They're like, oh, you're doing the acting classes, but you don't talk. You don't say anything. How can you act? And I was like, no, I really, I want to do it. I just want to be here. So even though I didn't talk and I was too shy to get on the stage, I just wanted to be there and see like being the thing.

And then I think like around maybe 12 or 13, um, I started going to NIDA and doing the short courses there, like, you know, spring, winter, summer, they had like short courses that you could do for the youths. And then I just went there, I think for every like summer break and went to break or whatever up until like I was 17.

Wow. And then now, and then what you sort of took the leap into the, yeah, and then I left school and I went to New York Film Academy and I moved from the Blue Mountains to Sydney. Wow. And then never lived in Sydney before. Never lived in the city. Then packed up and left and was like, you're 17 year old being like, come off to the city guy, bye. You fuckers enjoy high school. I'm going to drama school. Oh my God. Was that the most terrifying thing ever? Yeah. I mean, I had my mom with me.

She moved with me. So that was a lot better because she took a job in Sydney as well. So I mean, I think I would have, it had a lot more anxiety if she didn't come with me. But it was definitely nerve wracking. Like I had a panic attack on my first day of school. And so my mom had to like sit on the train with me and she's like, it's okay. Everything's fine. Wow. I was like, okay, bye.

Wow. And then I saw like everyone on orientation day and like when we were like introducing each other and like saying, oh, hi, I'm Tilly. I'm Blah, blah, blah, I'm from here. Nice to meet you all. And I just looked at everyone and everyone looked so different from my small town, my small, very white town. They were all older than me. I felt so young. I just felt like I was a completely different world when I was really excited. That's awesome.

Yeah. I mean, like, I, you know, I find it interesting because yeah, like, you know, they don't, it's not normally what you expect from people who like don't, you know, have anxiety or can have panic attacks to automatically go into drama. It's a misconception, I'd say. But yeah, did you feel like that was kind of a confidence thing for you as well to kind of be someone else? Like in school? Yeah, well, just in performing and in school. Oh yeah, definitely.

Like, I think that's one of the major reasons why I love acting because it's like I'm stepping into someone else's shoes. Like, you know, that character's crying. I'm not crying. She's not angry. She's angry. She's screaming, not me. I can, they can act however they want to act because that's not me, you know. I'm still, I'm still here not doing anything. Still? So you have that compartmentalization and just go, okay, that's, I can be that for time being.

Yeah. And I think it's very cathartic that way as well because it's like, oh, I can scream and cry and throw my shoes in the corner because that's the character, but it's like letting my body do that, letting, you know, because your mind and your body think you're doing it. Yeah, because you have anxiety as well. So like, but do you have depression or anything like that? Oh, it comes, I mean, like during high school, like, yeah, definitely. Not too much more now.

I've definitely worked through it a lot, but I get depressive episodes. Yeah. But in high school, definitely. And when I was in drama school, I definitely had depression as well. It hadn't left. So are you something you sort of like on anxiety meds or anything like that at the moment? No, I've never taken any sort of medication for it. I was first prescribed prescribed, Jesus. I was prescribed anti depressants when I was 14 and my mom was like, you're not taking those. Like you joking?

Wow. I'm not letting my 14 year old daughter take anti depressants. And I think it's because like we have like such a big history of mental health in our family that she was like, you're not getting like attached to them. You're not going down like a rabbit hole of drugs. Like, we'll sort this through talking.

I mean, like, and like, and, you know, everything works differently for other people, but I think she was just so terrified of like seeing what it had done to like my family that she didn't want me to like start at 14. Yeah. Like, you know, that's a big thing to have your 14 year old be like, oh no, they're not well. Yeah. Was that a was that a hard conversation with your mom as well? So kind of been like, oh no, I don't think it was ever a conversation.

Because I remember absolutely having the conversation with my mom about like having depression and anxiety and she blamed herself and I was like, this is genetic. This is nothing to do with you. Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't think I mean, like I feel like my mom definitely blamed herself. There was lots of guilt and back and forth. But I don't know that was never like, hey mom, I'm sad. It was like, my mom was just like, oh, no, I see you're sad. You're going to see someone fixing this.

And I was like, you know, lots of fighting lots of, you know, I think especially on like the 15, 16 year old mark. Like, I mean, I think every like girl that goes through it, they just become the devil for at least a year. Yeah. And my mom likes to refer to it as like the time that I run away and she like makes it so dramatic. I'm like, I just went to my nun's house for two weeks. Okay. The time you ran away from home.

But yeah, there was lots of like, I'm not understanding my own feelings and emotions. But like, because I think there's like such a history of mental health and my mom is so understanding and she's a childhood teacher. So she understands how to deal with those things. She knows that and she was just like, okay, try to deal with this in the best way. But she's like, I know you're not well. Yeah. But yeah.

Do you find that, did you always find it's a struggle to make friends in regards to how you feel? Did you ever have that sort of like problem growing up? Yeah. I mean, I don't think I had like any friends in high school. I had like friends from different schools. Like I had two best friends who went to a different school. But like in my high school, I like, you know, we just like sort of float through different groups, but no one was like your best friend.

And I think I just, yeah, never really connected with anyone. Didn't really feel understood. Yeah. Yeah. And I just felt really isolated and alone. Yeah. Not a fun time in high school. No, I can definitely relate to that. I remember like, and it was kind of like a running joke. I think about like me just having episodes and I didn't quite understand what was going on, but a lot of them were just me sort of getting panic attacks and then kind of wanting to think everyone hated me.

Which, you know, a lot of them I don't speak to. That says something. But it is interesting because like I remember, and I said this to my psychologist and she sort of just gave the perfect neck hidden in the nail and head because it was one of those stories that I couldn't identify and what, you know, but I remember when I was about 17, 17, 18, I was like the last year of school and I just carried around this little home little knife. It was just a little like, like a pocket knife.

Not even it was like a steak knife. It was just a little steak knife with the little like grills in it. And I remember I was never like, it was never to hurt anyone or anything like that. And I remember saying to her about it and just her response was like, oh, that's really interesting. And I was like, what do you think it means? And she was like, well, you were probably, you know, I was, because I said I was feeling suicidal and everything like that.

And she was like, it's probably because it gave you an option and it was just this thing of just feeling comfortable having that option, but not acting upon it. And I found that very interesting because it was like, oh, okay. Because I guess it was having that choice and that control. And I did this for probably like three weeks, three weeks to a month. And it was just the most random thing because I was like in this unknown stage of my life. And I felt completely miserable.

I was like, just had no like real connection with anyone. And I just didn't understand. I think I didn't understand myself, which was one very problematic when you were that young. And I think it was also, you know, I felt like I knew what I wanted to do after school. And everyone kind of like didn't. So instead of making sense of that, they ridiculed me for knowing what I wanted to do.

There was a lot of ridicule for just, I guess, just, you know, when anyone's nice, there was just an easy target and anything like that. So I definitely feel like that was kind of where my depression and my anxiety really was at its worst was year 11 and 12 versus probably any other year. I think it was always bad, but I don't think it was as bad as when I was like in my late teens, like my 1718 period. And it was just awful. It was just, you know, everything was anxiety inducing and depressive.

And I think I think like most people I stemmed towards alcohol for as a coping mechanism to go and hang with friends. And that was just normal when, you know, we left high school. And when I say friends, it was just the people who I ended up in the group with. It wasn't even people I stay in contact or actually. I don't talk to anyone. No, I know. It's not. So that was kind of like my little world until probably like a year after high school, at least.

And it was very, I absolutely hated that period so much with a passion. So yeah, I mean, like, I think in terms of all of that. It doesn't make it easy to kind of like, you know, get out of those head spaces. And I know I had a lot of conversations when I doubt about it, who does have depression and is on Zoloth to, you know, deal with it. But he even said like, you know, it's sort of one of those things that once you know, it's just, you know, and yeah, it's just you.

I've developed so many better coping mechanisms to deal with it nowadays. But yeah, it's just it's bizarre because that version of me in high school is also completely different. And I'm sure some of the people who I went to high school with, but I've no decided to reseal any of them. Yeah, I mean, because it's like you still have trauma from those things, like they might be completely different and they've changed and moved on and become better people themselves.

But that doesn't change how you feel. Yeah. I mean, I think with you, like with you, what were you kind of like younger when you were like still at the edge of high school? Were you just kind of very like, how did you feel like, you know, people did see you? I think I was always quite like I always extremely quiet, very introverted. Like I didn't even answer questions when I knew the answer.

Yeah, I was just really quiet. I think I was like maybe not the I definitely wasn't the weird kid, like because I had like friends and but I just I don't think I had like enough personality to like be a part of the popular group or to like, like have a best friend, you know, I just was like too quiet for that. And then like, like the two best friends that I did had have ended up moving away in like before.

And then I think that like sort of like, yeah, I was like, oh, I've like lost these two people, like who do I find now? And that's also really hard. But yeah, in like primary school, I was still really quiet, didn't like answering questions. I was too afraid to like talk to teachers. But I also had like really, really abusive teachers in primary school. So that was also like really hard. Yeah, lots of issues in primary school that were like the school's fault and teachers' fault.

But yeah, always just been a quiet person, which is, you know, absolutely fine. I mean, do you feel like now versus like even in the last few years, do you feel like you've grown as a person? Yeah, I mean, definitely. I think I've always had like a strong mind and like wanting to talk about things even when I was really young and a quiet person. I think just coming into myself and having opportunity to express that and having the confidence to express that.

Like, oh, I don't care actually what people think about me now, but before I did so much. Like I only speak when I want to say something that I genuinely want to say. But yeah, I'm definitely more confident now when I just say things, which is why I definitely think I get like my friends often say, I'm so blunt because I'm like quiet and then I'll just say something and they'll be like, oh, Jolieson, shut up. Because I'll be just like silent as death. And then I'll be like, you sure about that?

She hasn't said anything for an hour. She says this. Yeah, I think definitely like going overseas and living on my own for the first time and you know, basically like experiencing the New York College scene, like really helped me become the person that I am. And then become confident and discover what I wanted to do on my own. And then going through like lots of different, you know, traumas and grief and you know, I just like started being like, well, fuck everybody else.

I was like, I'm going to say what I want because I'll be dead. Everyone else is going to die. So am I. So does it matter? Say what you want to say. That's true. I mean, like honestly, fuck him. Really? Fuck him. Fuck everyone. I think I just like, yeah, like definitely like the last five years I just stopped being scared. And it doesn't mean I don't feel fear. I'm definitely still like, I definitely feel like a lot of fear.

But from what I was like, say now 25 from 20, like 20 year old me wouldn't know who I am today. No, that's interesting. I mean, like, look, I'd say the same about me, which is 25 year old me did not know much about 20 year old me now. 30 year old me now. So, you know, I feel like that's the case for most people because you grow, you grow as people were constantly changing. I just had a lovely gulp. It was a bit of a big one. It was a bit of a bigger. Yeah, I feel like we're constantly changing.

I mean, like literally in the last like five years, I am much more of an outward speaker. I got on top of a lot of my anxiety and depression, which didn't happen prior to that. I came out as queer, which was a big deal because in high school that was a big deal. Shut down. Yeah. Very, very hetero school. Yeah. And like, I feel like when you just come out and then just like it's like a big way off of your shoulder. Yeah. I mean, like, and it's weird. It's weird.

I was going to ask you about like, where do you sit on the spectrum of everything? What are you? What are you? No, that sounded so aggressive. I am so sorry. No, but I'm curious. Where do you sit on the home? I don't like ever label myself as anything. I'll be just be like, I mean, again, everyone has heterosexual like ingrained in them. Yeah. You know, but yeah, I don't think I'll really ever label myself as anything.

But if I like fall in love with someone or like want to date someone, doesn't matter. I love that. Yeah. You're such a like, because like, you know, just an enigma, but it's great. It's the best kind of enigma. I'd love that. I feel like more people are doing that nowadays as well, which is less labeling because I remember like when we went to high school and at least school, everyone was going, I need to label. I need to. And I got into that point as well where I actually labels.

I really do because they're so, I mean, I think they can be like so helpful for someone to like really help identify what they feel. And so I think when like they like, I like this label, this is what fits for me. This is like how I can identify myself to people. Yeah. That's like a really beautiful thing. But I don't think, at least for me, I don't think I've ever felt the need to do that. I felt like I like, I think I probably attribute most of that to my mom.

Like she was always like, well, it doesn't matter what you love. Like, you know, anything's okay. Like if you love anyone, it doesn't matter. You know, safe space, safe space, babe. Like it's all good. And so I don't think like, you know, we've never had the talk or anything. But if I was like, mom, I, this is my girlfriend. Yeah. She'd be like, oh, okay. All right.

So she's like, yeah, cause I often wonder that as well, because like look, I think my mom would have been a bit surprised, but she probably would have been fine with it as well. Like it's one of those things that the conversation just never came up. But yeah, like, I mean, that's good. Positive mom. Yeah. I mean, I think it would be less more surprising if I just bought someone home in general.

Yeah. I mean, like, you know, cause there's a, does that thing, and I want to, I do want to touch on this. Does that thing happen a lot where people automatically think you're a big aggressive data or anything like that or make that assumption that you're, because knowing you and now knowing you have very little interest in that world of, you know, going on lots of dates. Like, how does that turn around to people? Do you get a lot of people approach you for dates?

No. No. Again, I think it's like, I feel really conceited when I say it's like a whole intimidation thing. Don't sound, you are not considered at all. But like, yeah, I just, I get lots of guys like saying they find me very intimidating. And so I think they like don't like intimidating women. I think they have a lot of straight men again, grossed realisation and whatever, but like they like easy pickings. Easy pickings. They're like easy pickings. They like, you know, soft, mouldable women.

Like, mouldable. In like a, you know, when you're going out, most of like the sleazy guys on the scene. And I get so many guys like, especially older tall men, or even like shorter men, they'll come up to me like, they're like, you're a tall man? Hello? Wow. And I'll be like, oh my God, I didn't know I was tall until you just told me that. Thank you. And they'll be like, you're really tall. You're intimidating. Did you know that? My name's Greg. My name's Tom. Hello. And I'll be like, okay.

And they're like, yeah, you intimidate me. I'm going to go away now. Like I've had that conversation many times. And I'll be like, okay. And then they just walk away. Wow. And then, and then they'll be like, I bet you get asked out all the time. And they'll be like, I'm not even the point at me asking you out. I'm just going to like go away now. Yeah. And then, yeah. So I think, no. And maybe it's also part of the resting bitch face where I'm like, don't approach me.

I mean, look, that could be a tactic. And if you want to sell it strong and you want to say that the resting bitch face is the reason that I don't get the drop kicks coming towards me. I'm like, yes, use that to your advantage. But absolutely. I mean, like, that's so bizarre. I still find that incredibly bizarre that our society, because societal structure on women, you know, especially is just like, do you think, do you get more of it?

Like, do you ever get like, you know, people going, you look ethnic though, or you look, you know, never, never. They will say it to me when I've said it to them. I'll be like, yeah, I'm Sri Lankan. And I'll be like, I see it now. And be like, do you? I bet you do because I've said it. And the comment they'll always make is, it's the eyebrows. I say it in the eyebrows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the eyebrows. Like, oh, my eyebrows are ethnic. Okay. My thick eyebrows. Wow, people are ourselves.

I think they just want to say something to not sound like they were, you know, making a generalization. Because obviously I have really pale white skin, so they're not going to be like, oh, you could be a part of, you know, any culture other than Caucasian. Yeah. Caucasian sort of culture. It's just a color. But yeah, so when I tell people, I'm like, oh yeah, my background's Sri Lankan. I'm half Sri Lankan. I'll be like, really?

Oh my God, no. Now that you've said that, the eyebrows, no, I see it in the eyebrows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then like, or if they see me and they've met my mom, they'll be like, you know, I think you two really look alike. My mom will be like, you don't look alike. Really? Yeah, like she'll be like, you know, you're just saying that just be nice, but we don't look alike whatsoever. Wow. I mean, sometimes I think we do a little bit like we have similar smiles.

Yeah. Sort of similar face shapes, but my mom will be like, you just haven't seen her white side of the family. That's all. Wow. Then you'd know that she doesn't look anything like that. Because like, is your mom's skin fairly dark? Wow. Yeah. That's like, I mean, I do, it's very common as well, which was like, I had a conversation, one of my coworkers, his family, he's dark skinned, he's from Canada. And his wife is obviously Caucasian.

They recently had a kid and that was one of the conversations that happened, which was, oh, what colors the child could be. And I'm like, I don't know a healthy color of, you know, just anything like that conversation. Because yeah, I do find it interesting that, you know, like that people kind of try and find like this, you know, you know, phase of ethnicity. I mean, is what do you just give a consider yourself like white passing in that regard?

Like what's your, what do you think of that term as well? White passing in your like life? I mean, like, I'm definitely white passing because like I strongly identify with being Sri Lankan because I only grew up with my Sri Lankan side of the family. I don't, I didn't grow up with like any white Caucasian people. But I see how I'm treated versus how my mom and my Nana treated.

Like I get treated differently and how, you know, like when we go through airport security, they're like, Tleasing, go first. Go on, go first. You're white, go first. And then I get, you know, I get the nice treatment and then, you know, they see my mom and my Nan and my mom and my Nan and not just, you know, to, you know, random brown ladies, they get treated nicer. Wow. So I definitely get things that they don't get.

Even when I was, you know, a kid and they would hear my Nan's very, very strong accent, they would like direct all their questions to me because they would think that she's stupid. And so like, I definitely have white privilege. Like, you know, I'm like, you know, I don't get any sort of the racism that they have to deal with. That's, wow, that's extraordinary. Yeah. But like, and I would always get like in school, are you adopted? Are you adopted?

So like, that doesn't mean like the brunt of like the things that I have to deal with. And just like not really being accepted as a Sri Lankan because they're like, oh, but what's your dad? What's he? What is he? What's he? Like, is he white? Oh, okay, it makes sense now. So you're only half, you know, they have to make up. They really have to find a number of what you are. They have to like find a pigeonhole number. You know, you're 50, 50, what are you like? What more percentage are you?

They need to like find something to like see what they're seeing and put you in the box. That's appalling. Like, I, because yeah, like, are you particularly also like in terms of like height difference and stuff as well? Tall, a lot taller than your mom? She's pretty tall for Sri Lankan too, because her dad, my grandfather is pretty tall for Sri Lankan. Like he's definitely one of the taller ones in our family. He's like six foot. So she's five, seven.

Right. Okay. But she's like, that was always the tallest one in our family. And I came along, but yeah. So like it's not the biggest height difference, but like compared me, compared to the rest of my family, like my aunties, I dwarf them fully dwarf them.

Yeah. Wow. I mean, like that, I think it's also like, you know, this, this common culture that we live in, especially in Australia, and it's, you know, I hear it always, you know, that I feel like culture is coming into our media a bit more, but it's such a slow progression because, you know, we've got channels that obviously are very white and a lot of our leaders are very white and a lot of our life, you know,

like, unless you go to pockets like the inner west and stuff, because growing out in the blue mountains, it's like one of the whitest white places ever. Yeah. Like how was that? Yeah, it's a bit like still pretty white. I mean, it's a bit different now, but especially growing up, I think like when my nan moved there, they were like, like the only brown family. Wow. They didn't see any people of color. I think my nan was saying it was her and like one other Asian family.

And even like when they first moved to Australia, she's, my mum always tells me this story, like when they first moved here, and they were living in like the outer west, their neighbours would like throw garbage in their front garden. But the mountains, yeah, the mountains is like really white. And my mum tried to put me into primary school. It was a Catholic school that had nuns. They don't have nuns anymore, but they took everyone else from our mother's group, but not me.

And my mum's like, well, why can't, why is everyone else of my, you know, friend group getting their kids into this school, but not me? Like, we all know why. And then like, so she was really like honing, like, like having this conversation with this man. She's like, right, well, I can see you're going to be a problem mother, so your kid can just come in. Wow. And then when my mum's like, no, she's not, she's going somewhere else. Wow. You know, making it really difficult.

Because yeah, your mum sounds like a powerhouse. Like she's just a very headstrong, which is good. Yeah. Yeah, she's like, is there a lot of like independent women in your family? Yeah. Yeah, I think like four generations of single women raising their children. What? What? Yeah. Because you're an only child, aren't you? And then my, my nan has seven brothers and sisters that she basically will raised. And then she also had four children.

And then so yeah, my nan raised her seven brothers and sisters along with her mum. And then raised her four kids with my mum being the youngest. And then my nan also raised my auntie's son because my auntie had her son at 19 and basically raised my cousin. And then also raised me. Wow. Yeah. So like, because what happened to your dad? Did it, was he just left? No, my mum broke up with him before I was born. She was like, you're a shit person. Don't like you. You're an alcoholic. Wow.

You're going to be, you're just not for me. And then promptly found out that she was pregnant. Oh. And then she was like, look, I'm pregnant. I'm going to keep it do what you want, but I'm having it. And then he was like, okay. And then I saw him a couple of times when I was growing up and I never called him dad. I don't think I've said the word dad to anyone in my life.

And I was just like, I would go and visit them and he put like no one on that side of the family ever came in, visited our house in the Blue Mountains. And I was like, I think like one year I was like, mum was like, do you want to go down, down south? And she was like, no, I'm good. And then just never heard from him again. Wow. Yeah. That's look, it's not a bad thing.

No. No. Yeah. I like that's, that's really interesting as well because like, do you feel like you had not a lot of good male figures in your life? Oh, no, I definitely had my, because I had my poppy growing up. Yeah. And so he was like my, my nuns, they never were married, but she like, so she had like after her divorce, she like met my poppy and he's from Yugoslavia. Oh, lovely. Yeah. And so I always had him. So he was like my parental figure to my mum and me. So he's like our father together.

Aww. Yeah. My mum didn't really have one either. So he did everything for us. Wow. You know, taught me all about, you know, cars, maths, how to fix light bulbs, how to start a lawn mower, you know, all the vinyl scales, all the dad things. Yes. How did my first beer with him, you know. Wow. Yeah. Lots of videos of me being like four years old and he's like, have a beer. Cute. It was a mildly terrifying.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, cause that's good though, because I feel like, you know, when you're an only child, especially when you haven't had your dad in, in the picture at all, or the person who's meant to be your dad, which, you know, it kind of makes it a little bit difficult.

So it was good that he was around and also like your, your, you know, your family is such it's powerhouse of women that can do this and go, you know, like it and don't and break the social norms, which is, you know, not very common. Yeah. No, I never ever felt like I missed out on anything like I never had sort of like a like, oh, what if, what am I missing? Like what's, what is my father like? What's, what's on that side? I never had any sort of things like that.

And a lot of people ask me like, are you not curious? And I have absolutely no curiosity because I was so filled with love and my life was so just completely filled to the brim with anything that I needed. Yeah. And you're like, you said my women in my life are just powerhouses of women, like they run the ship. Yeah. And so I definitely felt like I didn't need a man to do anything. And same, same with my Poppy too. Like he was just like, you don't need a man. What are you doing?

No, no, no. I mean, like, I absolutely say that in you and I see the trade in you because you are very, you know, just, you're very much a powerhouse. You do everything like, you know, because you write and you, you know, you act and you, you want to make stuff and do everything. And you are so fiercely independent that I can see that trade like, bleed off, which is great. I mean, like, because I guess it's also like not common. It's not a very common thing to have.

I mean, look, I didn't have the most. I didn't know. I'm sorry. Most polite little cough. I didn't have the most like normal upbringing. My dad worked from home. My mom worked in an office. And so like it was very different. Like mom would come home late dad would be home looking after the kids. That's how I grew up. So it was very different. It was very like swap the gender roles around. And I know like if I think even now it's like that comparison.

I, you know, still weeds people out because everyone's like, oh, that's, you know, wasn't your dad teaching you like how to fix a car. I'm like, nope. Had no interest in fixing cars and neither did he. So I didn't have any of that proper father upbringing. I basically like had a proper father. I know, right? What is, what is being a proper person? But I mean, like it is very much like that. I just never had that kind of like social.

And I think also like my, I went to school with a fairly mixed range of people. The inner West wasn't too bad in terms of like white, just only white people. It was one of the poorer areas back in the 90s and early 2000s. It was considered just on the cusp because you had sorry, I'm sorry, Hills, which was very rich. And then you kind of the further out of the city you got the four of you, you know, you're obviously well self-worth was and now everywhere is fucking rich.

It's just basically all the way, all the way down until you basically get to Western, Western Sydney. And then you just keep going a bit further until you get the towns and then they're all fucking rich now. I know you just can't go anywhere without the new couple of minutes. No, I know. But I mean, like back in the, you know, the early 90s, I remember just distinctly like one of my best friends, she was indigenous. Her family were so amazing and so lovely. And we just hung out all the time.

And it was one of those conversations I just found it baffling how we were treated differently. And I was like, well, you know, we're the same people. I guess like, and it's, you know, like entirely wrong. But until probably I was about like left school, I was completely just unaware of that, you know, cultural divide and how, you know, like racism as a whole. Because, you know, commonly it was taught in very different ways and now it's very obligatory like racism and favoritism and everything.

But now, you know, and that I think really stems into the divide of the older generation, especially the older white generation and the older privileged generation. And, you know, obviously you both, you and I are in a privileged position because and, and I say this as well, commonly, even though I am, you know, feel, you know, non gender specific, I feel very much more feminine and everything.

And that's how I identify versus physically being a guy that still then gives me the leverage, which is over anyone as being perceived as a white guy in society. Like that's fucked. That's completely fucked. You know, and the fact that, you know, even though you're Sri Lankan, you know, you're white passing and that is considered a privileged angle to you over your family is nuts.

Yeah. And, and I don't think in, you know, and especially because, you know, like in the acting world and the creative world, you know, we're likely to get more stuff because what you know, it's what commonly people see. Where like, you know, white. So therefore it's more, you know, acceptable. Like, does that irritate you that angle as well? That like the more acceptable. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would love to go up for Sri Lankan things.

But it's like, it's still not at a place where, you know, they're different. I don't know. I think that like, they're, that definitely needs to be more colour on screen. I think there's, you know, if you're casting like a Sri Lankan or a black person, they definitely look at like lighter skins. You know, they don't even go with like the darker skin people because it's all about the aesthetic.

You know, they're not looking about, you know, actually inclusivity. It's all about aesthetic and trying to fill a hole. Yeah. But yeah, it's definitely frustrating when I'm like the, the norm. I'm the norm when I'm not the norm, you know, because I'm in this family and then, you know, yeah, I'm, you know, just because I was born with less melanin than my family. I'm culturally and socially Sri Lankan, but I have no melanin.

No. And you, I know, I know this because I remember the first conversation we had was about the fact that you were Sri Lankan. I remember distinctly as well. You were talking about a story that you wanted to tell, which was about your family and about, you know, like, just that perspective and, you know, everything. Because you, you, you write stories kind of a bit, quite a bit culturally based, don't you?

Is that, I mean, like, obviously you're planning to make this, are you directing this film and like, is that the plan? I'm planning to, yeah. I'm very nerve wracking. I like, I think I'm probably going to shit myself when I end up directing this. Yeah. But yeah, I think that I think that's what I'm going to do.

I'm, I don't think I was ever interested in directing before, but like, because I'm so attached to this, I think if I gave it over to anyone else, I'd be like, in their ear, micromanaging me and being like, what are you doing? What are you doing? I think they should go here. I think you should do this. Have you thought about doing this? Let's do this. Yeah. Yeah. That I might just want to do it myself. Yeah.

Because like, how, when are you planning to make it? Do you have a sort of like, idea date? No. I've only just finished the script. So like, I mean, like, I'm having like a coach session with my coach and my writing group on Tuesday. So I'm sure she'll be like, right, what's the next steps that we need to take? Let's, let's go do this. Is he? Yeah. Yeah. Is he going to help me?

And she can be like, what's the next step? What's the next step? What are you going to do? What are you going to, when are you going to achieve? She's great. But I'm sure it'll be like, start to work on the pitch and crowdfunding and, you know. Yeah. And sourcing crew and everything. Yeah. Yeah. And like, figuring out like the budget and all of those fun things. It's a stress. It's a stress. I have like quite a few people that I already want to work with.

But they're already so busy, you know, and I'm glad I have friends in the industry that are already willing to give me their time. I think it's just like finding cinematographers that I want to work with that are like, they're going to see my vision. Yeah. I'm finding the actors that I want because I already have actors in mind that I'm going to be like, well, I hope you're not doing anything. I want you.

Yeah. Please be available between these dates and here. Yeah. That's that's that's exciting though. I'm like, because yeah, it's I remember you telling me about this like ages ago. I was before it was even like your jotted notes down. I don't think it was like a fully fledged idea. You had an outline. I don't know how I've done it. I mean, I definitely attribute it mostly to Izzy because like when I started working with her, she was like, come on board. Like I know you have lots of ideas.

And I was like, yeah, come on board. I like, I'll just sit in, you know, in this group and like, yeah, long. Now six months later and I have a full script and I'm probably going to like gear up to like, you know, pitch and crowdfund. I mean, like, is it you've actually made me make something? What have you done to me? I know she's a little bit of a powerhouse as well. Like I did. I love the fact that she just kind of like wills people into doing it.

Oh, she's just so motivating. Yeah. Yeah, I love her. She just restructures people and yeah, she goes here. These are the things you need to do. Yeah. And she just does exactly what you need as a person. Yeah. She's like, right, go and get this done. No, like coddling like you go did this done. And then she's like, right, we need a little bit more of like sit down time like hand on chest. Like let's, you know, meditate with this feeling.

That's, you know, in our brains. Yeah. You know, she's just so intuitive. Yeah. And that's why she runs a great coaching thing online. So people go and check that out because it is worthwhile. And no, she's one of my favorite people in the whole world. I do love her to be it. But yeah, no, it's just nuts because that I know, you know, you skyrocketing at this stage, you might have a film under your belt next year. If not the year after who knows when but you know, like that's exciting. Yeah.

I don't know when I'll do it. I might even do it by the end of this year. I know that's because like from the other people who are in my group to have already finished their crowdfunding one, we've finished their whole film. Wow. Yeah. And the others like getting into their process of crowdfunding. Because I mean, like three of them are Americans and I think they need to crowdfund before they film it. Yeah.

It's like, and I'm just wondering what process I want to take first if I want to crowdfund before I film it. Yeah. Sometimes it's a very tricky thing because I feel like if you crowdfund, basically, you've always got to kind of like do half and half. Yeah. It's an investment filmmaking is an investment. Yeah. The mines are like pretty simple like my the whole film that house. So like, I'm not, you know, I don't need different locations or anything.

Yeah. So it's just be like spending probably two or three grand on a really fancy house. A really fancy house. Yeah. Probably not. Yeah. Be ecstatic, aesthetically beautiful. Aesthetically pleasing. Yeah. And you're going to be in it as well. No, I'm not in it at all. I mean, I might like write myself into like a maid role or something. But no, I'm going to call someone that looks Sri Lankan.

I mean, I'm Sri Lankan, but I don't think it's good. So it doesn't necessarily work out the way that it should dialogue wise. Yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair. And that's exciting. Yeah. I'm like, I've been waiting for this moment like for you to do that. So I'm very excited. I know, I know like it just seemed like a pipe dream originally.

Yeah. No, it definitely did. I think especially when I was first talking about it, I was like, well, I have many ideas, but like, they're just ideas, you know, but now at once, you know, and I'm very attached to this. I'm very proud of what I've written. Yeah. I had like 25 pages and then he's gotten me to whittle it down to I think 12. Jesus. So it's definitely now more doable than, you know, having 25 pages, a lot of pages. Yeah.

I was on my way to just making a feature. Yeah. Keep writing, keep writing, keep writing. No, I need pages later. Oh, fuck. But it was 25 pages in like one scene. I was like, well, no one's going to watch it 25. You know, like someone out there. I like, are you hoping to like, are you a bit nervous about like people seeing your work in terms because how are you reflect reflective of your own work, especially when it comes to performing versus like writing and directing?

I don't know because I haven't really like, no, I haven't done it yet. I haven't really yet. The only people who've ever read my writing is the other women in my group. And so I don't know how I'm going to take it yet. But I think I'm really proud of it. So I think I'm excited for people to see it. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I think I'm more nervous when people can see me act because it's like me on like my face and then me like them bearing my soul in like a different version.

You know, very gentle. Bearing my soul. But you know, like, don't look at, you know, how my vein boulders over here when I'm crying, you know, like, you know, all those sort of things. Yeah. But I'm sure like when the film is made, I'll be like, what does everybody think you like? Okay. I'll say, you know, I can just like, just a little knife like threatening people's shoulders just going. Yeah. That we I mean, like, I think you'll be a very good director.

Like, I think that's what I'm most nervous about being a good director. Yeah. I mean, what have you taken from your experiences being directed? Are you kind of like cherry picking the yeah, that you like? I think I'm gonna like maybe do a few online courses about directing and learning something. But I think it's just I think I'm gonna take a very, very light back approach.

Because I don't like being micromanaged at all. I don't like being like, do this, do this, do that, do this, you know, yeah, I like just being like, right, this is how we're going to set up the shot. Have fun. I mean, I like I love, I love directing you because it's so easy, because also you just kind of do it. And I can let you just kind of be you when you kind of just do anything with a role and make it fun.

But I think it's also like, I can't wait to give you something where I know I can, you know, like, and I know we've talked about this for a while, but I can't wait to give you something like that, that I've written, which kind of breaks you. Oh my God, which is always I think the favorite thing of a director whether just like I want to see you cry and and be destroyed by the script. But it's kind of like the thing that says I'm more of a disfuck I think it does.

Um, good God. Why? Because you think like the other things you've given me are too easy for me? Sometimes. I think it's also like, I mean, also, because I think there's always more to get in terms of performance. I don't like and I like working with people. It's like, you know, we have a very similar approach in how we, you know, like work.

Whereas sometimes, you know, sometimes you get to set and some people are very garingly different and they're like, I need to give, I need to be known exactly what I'm doing at every step of the way. And I'm like, I can't give you all the notes because you know, the other 20 actors, or like 10 actors that are here or you know, how many actors you have don't work that way. Like, you know, they're everyone's a bit different. Like, I think, you know, everyone works bossily. Yeah. Like a challenge.

Yeah. That's why I think like the best people to work with someone that be like, well, like teachers, you know, they see how differently their students react in different ways. Be like, right, this person needs this. Yeah. That person needs this. This is how I can communicate with this person. Yeah. You know, and I think that's the same directors. You know, they see how each director is like each actor like needs different things. Someone needs more hand holding.

Someone needs to be left alone more. Yeah. And then that's how you get the best performance out of each actor because each person is an individual. Yeah. I think I think like anything that I've directed, I get some of them like sending me notes just of what they think of the character and I love that. And then like, you know, obviously, you know, you present what's on the page when you kind of like do your thing with it and then deliver it.

And it's very like, it's fun. It's always kind of like, I think it's also you just really get people. I think the strength that you have as a performer and as an actor is you really, you have questions, but they're not like, you get the character, you understand that moment or what's going on. And then the only questions you have are about the context, like a few bits of context question, but it's not like an overall like, I need to know all these 10 dot points and you know, the nitty gritty.

Yeah, I would hope they know my character. I mean, like on some level, I hope I do my, you know, my backstory and my script analysis as well. Got enough bloody training to do my script analysis. I mean, do you have you ever sort of being on a set where you've just been questioned entirely about your performance? No. No? That's good. Like about like what I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I know some of them. I've never, I've been on set where you know, like people just, you know, like they're great actors and then some people are just going, no, no, no, I change it exactly like they've had a very controlling director with it. I've been in classes like that. Yeah. But usually the people who are doing it like that, directors who don't see and they see in their vision. Yeah.

And they're like, no, do it like this. Like, well, that's, I mean, and it's in the class, you know, and I like to say, well, no matter anyone's interpretation of the scene is never wrong. Yeah. Like you can do it in any different way and it's okay. Like it might not be the intended way, but you can be like, okay, we'll try it like this. You know, it doesn't have to be in like the way you're envisioning it. And it doesn't mean that that person is also completely wrong.

And also just like let people learn, you know, learn through trial and error and be like, okay, this is what works. This is what doesn't. Let's help, let's, you know, sort of mesh these two things together and be like, right, stop there, wrong, fix this. You know, but some people just, I don't know, some people just help them to be directors. And I mean, I also think some people just shouldn't be acting teachers. I just think some people should change jobs in careers.

Yeah. If you're not good at dealing with people in a creative sense, don't be a creative. How are you, like, have you now like in your corner career as well, like God, you always talk about having a list of people that you sort of like go to and you know, you love working with. Is there any sort of experiences that you were like, I'm definitely never ever again working with these people. I worked on a project at the end of last year that like some people like acted very immaturely.

And I was like, okay, I'll never work with you again. But you probably also never worked with the industry. Oh, wow, is that level of bad? Yeah. Yeah, it was like edit, it was the short film from a film school that my one of my best friends was doing. They asked me to be a part of it when I came on board and they all had a pretty tough time with one person. And if I was on that set for longer, I would have said something, but I wasn't.

I was in the whole thing, but like, if I knew that person better, I would have been like, this behavior is not okay. Wow. But yeah, so like stuff like that, you know, I think it's just like childish, you know, you can't swear at people, you can't, you know, storm off sets, you can't, you know, yell at people. But I think all the big projects that have been a part of, they've all been really professional and really, really lovely because they know how to act with it to quorum.

I'm sure I'll have different experiences in the future where I'm working on a big set and they'll be cunt. Yeah, yeah. But so far I've had pretty good luck on my big projects. Yeah, I mean, like, I think they're, I try to make the rule and no policy of just don't be a cunt on set, like it's just a straight up, be nice, be pleasant. It's like Emerald for now, I'd be like, what's your interview, she has a no ass hole. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's like, it's just a good policy.

I think it happened. Like I think recently like Shilabuff got kicked off set and fired because he was being a dick. Well, it's like, what's his name? 30 seconds, Jared Leto. Yeah. I'm like, okay, there's method acting, and then there is being a psycho. You don't get to take it that far. No. You don't get to mail dead animals, you don't get to, you know, act however you want. It's not an excuse to be this way.

No, I think also our industry in particular, and like we were saying at the beginning as well, our industry in particular is so fucked and backwards in a lot of different ways. And I just find it baffling because as someone who is predominantly based their entire career of, you know, like being kind, being considerate, helping people out, everything. And like, you know, doing favors, doing a lot of favors, and still not having the career that you want.

And you're like, have I done something wrong? Like, have I failed this career? And there's nothing necessary that I've looked back on my career and gone, like, there's parts that I'm like, oh, I could have probably handled that situation better and, you know, not, you know, not like, overdramatized it. But I have definitely never been an actual cunt to anyone. And it's amazing how many people. Oh, yeah.

It's extraordinary and how many like, you know, like being being, you know, victims to, you know, the cancel culture and stuff like that.

You know, which was something that happened to me a couple years back and it, you know, just things like that where it's just, you know, people are awful for the sake of just, you know, self righteousness rather than just being like, oh no, they actually, you know, maybe I shouldn't be like this and you know, I've got my own life going on but so do they and, you know, like, I get everyone's different but you know, some people need to grow the fuck up.

Yeah, it's like how I mean like, for you, how do you deal with all of that these days, like with the whole like industry being, you know, backwards and everything. How do you feel about it? Like, in terms of like cancel culture. Yeah, cancel culture and all that jazz.

I think it's like really intense like I think that we're in like a society where like there's like no room for growth or like mistakes and they're like definitely exceptions, you know, like there's some some things that are unforgivable, you know, like if someone does something that is wrong, like in a certain way, then yes, that person needs to like go away and doesn't maybe deserve to be in film and television anymore.

Yeah, but I think it like there's a big bike and white thinking going on of like, we loved you, this was wrong, now I hate you. And I think there's like, you know, people can make mistakes.

Again, like every, every situation is different, you know, it depends on what the person's done but like, you know, for it, I yeah, I think there are different things and if you if you're if you've done something wrong that calls for being like sorry and apologizing and learning to be a better person, especially if some things were like 10 years ago, and you've grown since then and you can be rehabilitated in some form. I think you shouldn't be cast out of society.

Yeah, maybe like, yeah, I don't know. I just I don't think it helps anybody like again, again, there is every situation is its own story. But you have to look at every story that's on thing not everyone should be canceled point blank and like be thrown in the bin. It's kind of like how Scandinavians do prison. They reform them instead of throwing them in jail.

Yeah, no, 100%. And I think, you know, there's, there's right ways in this industry and there's wrong ways like you can handle, you know, and look, I always say people who are young and naive and like clearly have a lot of personal growth to go through.

Everyone makes mistakes when it's personal like personal growth. And also, like, you know, some people, I think the biggest misconstrued of the situation is just not talking or communicating clearly like someone just not giving people the time of day to communicate.

And I think that's my biggest gripe with this industry because literally if people just say, hey, this situation like, and I'm like talking personal professional like literally anything going, hey, a couple of days later just going hey, that situation on Saturday just didn't make me feel comfortable. Just letting you know, like not not taking high offense to it just letting you know. Yeah, instead of it letting it build up and festival.

Yeah, and then or two months later you find out that why haven't they spoken to you in ages and they've been like, oh yeah, no, you made me feel uncomfortable. So therefore I'm just not going to talk to you. I'm just like, are we going to resolve? So we're going to move past and move forward. But there's so many people out there and that just go, no, the wall has to be put up.

And I think in like terms of like celebrity culture, when it comes with like fans versus celebrities, everybody's on a pedestal. Everyone's viewed almost like on a godlike status. So you can't make simple mistakes. No.

So, you know, if a friend says something a little bit uncouth, it's like, well, that wasn't okay. You can maybe like have a conversation or you either don't say anything and you just like sort of get past in a couple months. But if a celebrity says that it feels earth shattering because they feel bigger than life and they feel like the person that has to be perfect. Yeah. When they are people too.

Yeah. It's, it baffles me that we sort of live in this, you know, social media frenzy, which, you know, like everything we post has to be questioned and ridiculed and everything like that. Yeah. And especially for celebrity, it's just like, no, stop. Because it's like, you can say, oh, I, you know, like donated to a charity and everyone's like, oh, that wasn't the charity I'd pick. Have you seen all that, you know, horrible treatment they do to this?

And it's like, you know, that's by the by or, you know, like I helped out these people. So, you know, like, please, you know, understand that I'm also a human being and it's not, you know, but I do agree with you. I think, I think our social media, especially the, because you're not a big social media user these days. No, I post one post about a year and I just let everyone know I'm not dead. And then I'm like, hi everyone, not dead. See you next year. See you next year.

I know I should probably be a much bigger a part of social media than I am because I would help, especially now because I'm going to like crowdfund and go to social media and be like, hey, give me money. Give me money. But yeah, I just can't seem to like bring myself to do it. I just, yeah. Is it like just no interest? No interest. And I don't know, there's always been like a part of me like that doesn't like to be seen online. I like to be quite a private person. Yeah.

I don't like people seeing where I'm out at lunches or like what I'm doing. I don't know why I'm in this industry. It's always the thing is like, if I'm honest, I ever, whenever I tag you and things, it's something like, oh no, have I offended to listen? No, it's like just literally she does not want anyone to know what she's doing.

What she's doing. I'm, no, I'm just, I don't know why I'm like that. I'm just like, no one can know what I'm doing where I am. Just pretend I don't exist. And yet for some reason I'm an actor and I want everyone to know I exist. I think it's really funny as well. But do you get on like, how many people constantly message you other than myself? Like, do you have like a group of like, you know, 10 people who remember that you're alive on on socials? Like to work with me or just in general?

Oh yeah, no, I have like many friends that, but they know to not message me on, you know, they not not to not message me. They just like, we just text. They don't, they would never tag me in anything. Yeah. Even like when we go out and stuff, they'll be like, please send my tagging you in this. I don't even know how to see it. You're not going to repost it. What's the point? You know, they make fun of me.

No, in a fun way. They're not like in any sort of way. Because yeah, they know I'm never going to repost anything. So they just, you know, and sometimes I'm okay to like, you know, pop in and be like smile in the Instagram photo. I'm not going to like never like show my face. You know, it's not like I'm in witness protection over here. That we know. That I'd definitely be in the wrong.

Yeah. But now like, I don't know. What we'll be talking about before we are before I start to think like I'm a private person. Yeah, no, it's a bad social media. Social media. Yeah. And then you were just like, no, I'm private. I'm private. Everything's a closed book. No, I just don't post that much, but I'm sure I should because like engagement wise and followings and then people like, oh my God, that person that I follow, they're making this film now. I want to go see this film.

I feel like social media though now is like a complete, you know, have it's it's a bit obtruse and obnoxious on how much people post. Yeah. And there's all video form now. Like Instagram doesn't even have they don't even prioritize photos. No, no, it's all it's all like reels or tick tock now, which is like nuts. But I do I do find it interesting because like, I don't know, I post mostly movie, movie stuff.

Like if anyone finds my profile, it's on like completely private, you can't see who my friends are or anything like that if you're not a friend of me. But yeah, I just post movie trails. And somebody I feel like that is for me, a way of, you know, making sure I'm still alive. I'm just out there.

But also like, I don't feel like my life's interesting and love unless it's got a project in it to really warrant unless I'm out with like Emily, or I've been a project I'm not going to post every day I see a friend and be like I'm hanging with this person today I'm not like, I don't know, I feel like that's a big Ask of people to be like every time you go out with a friend you be like, selfie.

I love taking photos with my friends. We I like to like today we went out we went to branch went to a pub. Like one of my friends she's really big on social media like she takes lots of Instagram photos and she's always, you know, snapping a pic and we take lots of photos here and I don't care about being any of those I love being in them. It's just when I'm doing it. I don't know. I was like, I like being a recurring character in her. But I don't like having my own show.

God, can I just imagine you as the lead character and you're like, no, no, this is too much. I'm just gonna shuffle back into the end to the background and be like, yeah. But yeah, see that's like it's like the whole introvert thing like I don't want people to see me. I want people to see whatever character I'm playing. So like I'll be fine on TV. And then as soon as it comes time if I have to be in interviews I'll be like, do I have to?

Literally when I started this conversation to listen was like, oh, that's my voice. I've gotten used to it now. It doesn't sound too bad. No, you have a good voice. I have been telling you this for quite a while. I think I have the worst voice. I don't know. It doesn't. I don't like it, but it's not sounding too bad on this. I'll have to listen to this back and be like, Martin, it sounds terrible. Get rid of it. Yes, not in the slightest chance. No, but you have a radio voice. You do.

Oh, radio voice. Yeah, radio voice. You got it. You got all of it. You got a TV look, the theater act and then yeah, the radio voice. I should just go into radio. I mean, like it's something that I'm about to step into the wonderful world and... Isn't it like a dying art form though? No, it's caught up on COVID. COVID really shot it up. I see lots of videos and TikToks of people on the radio. I feel like people love radio now. I suppose that's right.

COVID really shot a lot of that up because there was nothing. Everyone got bought a watching TV, so they went straight back to what was good. Yeah, and I feel like a lot of radio hosts do it in a podcast form. Like what we're doing. Like what we're doing, it's also kind of like I feel nowadays, especially with, you know, you're competing against so many great shows that are also about the same thing.

And it's like, well, what divides you between the rest of them? Honestly, it's just about having fun. It's about doing what you want to do with that said product. No one is identical and, you know, the same. My legs are too tall. My legs under this table. It's a very shallow table. You've done extremely well sitting there. Thank you. It's a truck. You have a tough life today. Oh my God, I have such a tough life. Thank you for acknowledging it. I want to say get fucked. You can say it.

I will. Yeah, get fucked. I love that. I love that. I'll get fucked. Not even like, it's not even enunciating. Yeah, let's get fucked. Like there was no consonant in that at all. Yeah, no, I'm not going to ask for more. Do you like listen to a lot of podcasts and like get ideas or you just like, just like. I listen to a lot of people and get ideas. This is, and I read a lot of articles and get ideas. I do a lot of research into getting ideas. A lot of my life is watching things, researching.

I'm very much like, I feel like experiences define us. And that is like the best part to cherry pick of life. And you know, you only learn by experience and information living. And I think, you know, like, for someone who has, is an introvert and has anxiety, I run a podcast. It's like not a common platform for people who is like, oh, you don't want anyone to really hear your opinions. It's like, I remember telling my mom about this the first time and she was like, oh, what would it be about?

And I'm like, I don't know. I just talk to people and she's like, huh. That's nice. She's listening to them now. I know I'm trying to get my mom into podcasts because she's a very intelligent woman and would love them. But I just think she like seeing it rather than hearing it. Yeah. I think my mom's the same. What are your favorite podcasts? True Crime Ones. Oh yeah. I love True Crime. Yeah. Anything like? Like my favorite murder. Oh, and no, no, no. Morbid True Crime.

Oh. I'm good to American peeps and they sit in, one's a mortician. Oh. Yeah. So she deals with the cadavers. Oh. And get the grizzly details of some people being murdered. But yeah, there's some episodes that I'm like, dear God, people are fucked because there are some really gross murders out there. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it's not too far from, you know, like that long ago. Some of these stories which are only about like 10, 15 years ago, I think that. So yeah, I think those are my favorite.

Do you have a favorite? I have a couple. I think my favorite's You're Wrong About. It's just every episode is a different like topic where they discuss something like cancel culture or, you know, like a person in history. It's just like anything and they debunk myths and things that maybe society thinks about this certain thing. And they're like, well, your society is wrong about this thing. Let's educate people on this. Like I loved the one on cancel culture.

I love the one on I just listened to one with Jessica Chastain when she was talking about the eyes of Tammy Faye and how, you know, how the media portrayed Tammy Faye. And portrayed her with the scar running down her face when that was never the case. And how like people have these memories in their mind. So like, yeah, the podcast is a lot about like people having these memories in our mind. And then it being wrong because that's how. So I love that one.

And I away with Jamila Jamil, who's like a podcast host, a presenter and model. And she was on that TV show The Good Place. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So she has her own podcast and she also has like, she has actors and doctors and like anyone and she just talks about mental health very much like this. Very much like this podcast. And I just have like a very candid chat. Oh, I love that.

I mean, like it was asked to me the other day, like, do you do much research and I do a little bit of research, but I mostly just cuff it because it's like, you know, it really depends on what the person next to you has in terms of information and you just pull. You just pull information out and make them feel comfortable. That's how you work. I feel like if you go in with a questionnaire, it terrifies people to the end to the grade. Right, this one, this one, this one.

And I feel like you get stilted answers. Yeah, you do. Yeah, this is my experience from childhood. This is my experience from now. Like you just, people don't talk like that. So, you know, off the cuff has always worked and but yeah, like it's a natural progression because like, you know, you start talking about like this, if we're talking about podcasts and then like, right, next question. You depressed? What's going on? You thinking about suicide? Yeah. Okay, let's take this one off.

Like it just feels a bit jarring. I know, but you know, like people, people talk love to talk about things like that and then, you know, they get into this whirlwind of, you know, you just suddenly just get this person going at the end. It's like, I don't feel comfortable to be here anymore and I should leave and it's like, how did that happen? I'm not surprised. They ask the Q&A questions. But yeah, like that's why I tend to avoid it in podcast. In podcast. In podcast.

No, in podcast fashion, you know, I just try to avoid it to the end. Because you know, I'd rather at the end of the day, make someone enjoy their experience than have an awful experience on the podcast. Well, I hope you've had a nice. I've had a terrible time. I'm really going to walk out right now. Wow. I guess. Yeah, like what's the time? Just got to go. No, no, it's been chill. It's been easy. It's been easy. It's been one of the better podcasts I've been on. Oh, yeah. I'm joking.

It's the only one I've been on. Oh, okay. So the first and last, I'm joking. It's been good. I will never appear again. But no, it's been an absolute pleasure to chat. It's been great. I've really loved it. Oh, it's been nice. It's the least, and where can people find you on the internet? Where can they stalk you? Oh God, after the whole chat of like, I don't like being found. No, no, no. Where can they find you? I mean, I do have an Instagram. Go find me.

You'll love the one post a year at Telys and Don. If you need help spelling that, it's T-A-L-I-E-S-I-N-D-O-N. It's got all the vowels. What else am I up to? Doing some shit with you? Yeah. Doing my thing. Hopefully, I'm going to do some more acting things. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to go and check out like some stuff that Delys and I have done, it will be out next year, but you will see little bits and pieces. Obviously, if you follow Old Who, First New Who, and other stuff that we do together.

Yes. Yeah. I've got a lot of pipeline to the plans to work together. So, you know, it's just kind of when and where. When and where. And we're both very busy people. So, we're just kind of making the time. We're kind of making the time for each other and just to make sure. I know. And I don't even do that much and I'm busy kind of imagining what I'm going to be like when I'm working full time. Yeah, right.

It's like, oh my God. But no, I'm very excited to like, obviously, I get the privilege of knowing you, but also I'm very excited to see where your career goes next. Thank you. Thank you. I'm hoping this next few years will be busy. I want a couple of busy years. Yeah. We're going to make it. I'm busy. We're going to. I've got lots of ideas and I don't like not being. No, I know. Neither do I. That's why I don't date because I'm like, I'm a career person. Ending off on a high note.

Fuck men only have a career. Oh my God. That's the tagline. I fucking love it. There you go. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you want to go and check out more of the things we do podcast, you can check them out on Avalon Spotify. I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later. Goodbye. Bye.