The Things We Do... - Interview with Liz Lin

This is the Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film life, television culture, mental health and all that fun jazzy stuff. Today I've got my special guest and friend, Liz Lynn. Hello. Hi. Hi. I'm glad that you said my name correctly because you know how many times like people in emails like write my name wrong? How do you write your name wrong? Right, like it's three letters, first letter, first name, three letters, second name. And oftentimes they will call me Lynn.

Although like I had an email the other day was like, Lynn Lynn. And I'm like, it's clearly Liz Lynn, not Lynn Lynn. I don't know where that came from. Like obviously your computer is not auto correcting Liz to Lynn because Liz is a real name. So I don't know. I feel like you're also just like looking at it as like, there's only a letter change. There's one letter change between the two names. And like people getting confused, like which part is my first name, which part is my last name?

And I'm like, how is that confusing? Like I'm pretty sure Lynn is a lot like if you look at Liz Lynn, I'm pretty sure Liz is not the last name. Well, I mean, you could be Lynn Liz. I could be Lynn Liz, but I've never heard of a last name called Liz. I'd be really concerned if someone had a last name, although I'm not taking offense to anyone who does have a last name as Liz. But I do feel a little bit sorry for you because it is a first name. Right. Well, actually, you know, it's so funny.

Like the first time I ever went to an optometrist, my optometrist was called Michael Michael. Like his first name was Michael and his last name was Michael. Well, didn't you know like Taylor Lautner got married to Taylor Lautner? Like that's a thing. I saw that. I was like, why would you change your last name to Lautner? Like I wouldn't do that. I would keep my last name. Just to separate you because now on every legal paper, it's just Taylor Lautner and Taylor Lautner.

That's just really disturbing. It's you don't know who you're referring to. Like, and especially if you want to get rid of Mr. And Mrs. Like you're really going to throw people off. Exactly. Also, like what century we're living in. Why are we still taking like, like the male's last name? Oh, I know. Right.

I mean, like this is the, this goes back to our parents generation, which is very like, but even my parents didn't actually, I think my parents were like the Stanford because mom and dad have individual last names and I have mom's last name. Interesting. So me and my brother both have mom's last name and the choice was if it was born girl, it would get dads. If it was born a boy, moms. I have heard of families like that. Yes. I had one, but like, you know, you had a family.

I had a friend who was like that. I was confused because I was like, are you and your sister related? Like, why do you have different last names? And then she explained to me that they took like different, you know, each parent's last name. Yeah. But it's interesting because in Chinese culture, at least with our mainland Chinese people, uh, ever since, you know, the, the communist party came into power, the women stopped taking their husband's last name.

So my mom does not have my dad's last name. Interesting. Yeah. Because they were like, they decreed that men and women were equal. So then you don't have to take your husband's last name. So I don't know any mainland Chinese people who have their husband's last names. And I love that. Oh my God. Um, I love also that you talk about mainland China, um, China as well, because you know, there's a whole debate whether Hong Kong should be considered. Oh, well, yeah. Well, Hong Kong's different.

They didn't go through the cultural revolution, so they still take their husband's last name. Which is really interesting. There's a lot of things about Hong Kong that I, like as a place, I've never realized until like probably in the last, I'd say five years, particularly when it's had this huge political turmoil. Yes. Um, but you know, like, because where, where were your parents born? My parents were born in China, but I'm different parts of China. My dad was from Shanghai.

Everyone knows Shanghai. My mom is from this very tiny Northeast city called Yakutia, which nobody knows. Yeah. I wouldn't have known. Most people in China don't even know it. So yeah, they're like, it's a, it's the middle of nowhere. Don't care about it. Yeah. It's very, very cold. It's very close to Russia. Wow. It's very cold. When you go in winter, which I have been many times, it's like minus 40 degrees. You go outside, your eyelashes frost over.

Wow. Yeah. Do your parents go back there for any particular like family stuff? Yeah. So like ever since I was young, I've been going back every single year. Wow. Yeah. They always make a point to take us back to see our extended family. That's good. Yeah. It's amazing. Keeps us in touch with our cultural roots. Yes. Cause you can lose it very quickly here in Australia.

I mean, like it's, it's kind of interesting as well because I, I've, I've now known you for like three years, which sort of seems, um, yeah, yeah, about 2020. So that's where, yeah. So it'd be almost three years. Yeah. I don't know to resume my knowledge of time at this point. Um, but it was always kind of interesting as well because, you know, like predominantly the thing that I think, you know, we, we touched upon at the beginning as well, but you are an actor.

You, you, at that stage when we met, how, how, like how ingrained into the industry had you been at that point? I think I'd been in the industry for like two months or something. Yeah. It was very early on. Very early. Um, and you were just like this eager, eager, I'm going to do anything. Exactly. Absolutely. I didn't know what I had to do. I just, I was eager.

Yeah. But I think that's always what I think you had a, particularly with you, you always have like a very forward thinking mind and you're always kind of just ready to jump at any opportunity. Um, I would say the same for you. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, but I also think that the thing I love about, um, you is like, you're always willing to challenge someone as well. You're always like, do this, do this.

Like you're very collaborative, which I feel like a lot of young actors, especially when they started in the industry, aren't they kind of just like, yes, people. And you're always from the get go, even when we were filming in Helensburg, which was really fun. That was so much fun. Oh my God. That makeup insane. I still can't believe that that is only a minute scene and I'm still like sad that there was so much effort went.

I know it was like, it was like a six hour day and we were like, we were in makeup chairs for like, I'd say about three hours. Yeah. It was like a, cause it was like five of you and then everyone had to get makeup done. But, um, yeah, I remember like everyone was just obsessed, but now that like interesting event at the other day, that gate is no longer there. So you can just have free access again. And I'm like, so sad. I know. I think I thought we had exclusive access. I did too.

And I'm very disappointed. My life has gone to shreds. Um, but I mean like also I feel like both you and I have dramatically shifted our careers as well. What's your star sign? I'm a, I'm Aquarius. Oh my God. I'm a Gemini. That's how I get along. Yeah. That's why we're like all like, woo. Like, you know what I mean? I know. Chaos. Yeah. Chaotic as fuck.

Um, but I mean like also I think the thing that, you know, you're so passionate about everything that you do, especially like, you know, I love, I love that about you because I think from the outwards perspective as well, and I often find this with working with people. I think it's also because I surround myself with a lot of women, but I automatically know when I'm on set with a lot of awkward men who have never encountered women before. Do you know that feeling? It's hilarious.

Cause I'm around awkward men all the time. I mean, like, well fuck him. But I mean, like, do you notice that as well? Like being, being young because like being on set, being young, but I mean like being on set because I feel like there's, there's this sort of like, we have a lot of mutual friends, but um, you know, I think there's some of them that I'm like, oh, they're way more awkward or they're way more less in touch with actually like cultural experiences or like women in general.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I've been very fortunate in all the sets that I've worked on and the people I've worked with have been generally like very good, very open. And maybe it's because I work with a lot of younger people as well. Like our generation generally are more like open-minded. They're like more, I guess, willing to have conversations and just like adapting. Yeah. Well, I mean like, you know, we're, we're kind of the generation.

It's very, it's very interesting as well, because I was sort of thinking about that. Um, when I was chatting to one of my mutual friends, Aravind, um, and I love him to bits, but, um, we were chatting about that where it was like the problem we find when we're on set particularly is when we just, we sort of notice like people just don't know what to say around or just like how to talk to women naturally.

Like it's a very like, um, I think, I think it's particularly because both he and I have spent a lot of our careers, like, you know, as, as it's like strong feminists as well as kind of establishing a safe environment. But because of that, we're also very easy to chat to and be like, oh yeah, no, we, you know, like I grew up with female friends and everything.

So it was like very easy from a young age to talk to people about periods and, you know, and, um, like, I guess, you know, like situations that would definitely were not comfortable for Aravind conditioning my brother from a young age to be comfortable with these topics. So it's amazing how many people are not. And then, but it was so like, I think because I've lived with girls before as well and had those conversations really like ingrained in me.

It's very weird when I hear people just go, Oh, Oh, I remember once I remember once I was like at work and I met someone I was like, Oh, you know, she said she was a makeup artist and I was like, Oh, I'll just grab you an underwear, grab your contactees, went over to the other guys and they were like, you got a number? Yeah. And I was like, Oh my God, this is so weird. That is so weird. And this was early in my career. So I was like, I must've been about 24 and I was like, this is surreal.

I don't actually feel comfortable with this sort of level of creepiness where it's all about, you know, but I've worked with some- That is really weird. Yeah. Definitely have worked with people who are a bit like that. And I, and I feel like that kind of stuff is like inappropriate on set as well. Like it's not about like getting the number. It's all professional. Like, well, I mean, it's a grain like between professional and fun and goes back to chaotic.

But like, I do think what's your, being your experience, like, especially in the last few years to working on sets, what's been sets that you've been like, this is good. And sets that you have been like, Oh God, where did this go wrong? Like, I feel like I've like, honestly, I've been really lucky. I feel like all the sets I've worked on have been like quite good, very collaborative. I work like, I guess I've been on like student films and stuff like that.

So generally those are very, you know, collaborative and stuff and even more professional sets. Like, and also like during COVID, it's been kind of strange too, because I guess like working on professional sets during COVID, you're very isolated from everyone else. So like, you don't even have the opportunity to really have those kinds of interactions. That might be awkward because you're like made to sit a meter point five away from everyone else kind of thing.

Like you're eating your lunch there by yourself, like trying to have a conversation while they're like that far away from you. Yeah. Like, I'm so happy to meet you. I'll just yell across the room. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's really interesting as well, because I sort of think that COVID in my sort of day to day existence has been very like normal. Whereas yeah, like being sitting on like close quarters and stuff. Like COVID has really changed our industry.

Like how is it, how do you think you've changed as a person because of this whole like COVID lifestyle? Do you know what's interesting is like, well, in terms of the industry, I started during COVID. I don't know anything outside of COVID. Do you know what I mean? So like when people were like, oh my God, self-tapes suck. I'm like, what was it like in person? I don't even know what you're talking about. Like I do a self test.

Cool. But in terms of me as a person, like I feel like I've become a little bit more introverted like during COVID because I was like, oh, I actually love spending time by myself and just at home. And like, I remember when the lockdowns I think lifted and I was like, I have to go out in the world again. I was like, I have to spend money to eat out. Like I was like, I can't just cook at home and just like go to sleep right after. Like I was like, I have to emerge into society again.

It was like an adjustment. Oh my God. Yeah. So you were a hermit because you, you, I am a bit of a hermit, but also like I'm actually technically an extra technically an extrovert and everyone who meets me will be like, yeah, you're very extroverted. But my close friends know they're like for an extrovert, you need a lot of alone time. You like hide away in like the reverse. Yeah. Sometimes I just don't reply to messages for like a day. That's true.

If anyone wants a serious question out of Liz, expect it in a month in an email or a letter or a message bottle. Who knows what. I'm really bad at replying to messages. Like it's like, I either reply straight away or never. Like you'll just never get replied to. It's not, it's one or the other. Like you're either like, I don't think Liz hates you because she doesn't. There's no hate. It's just Liz is really bad at responding.

And if you look at Gemini memes, they are, they absolutely like, you know, support this point. You're trying to justify. But I think also like I love, you know, you started doing some YouTube stuff in like, you know, lockdown, which I've watched a few videos. They're quite funny. Oh my god. So yeah. So, okay. It's funny because like my YouTube career starts from like, you know, age like 11. Okay. Not a career, but like, you know, I was, hang on. Is there this video still online?

Okay. No, I don't think so. Like I think I just recorded them, my webcam uploaded them, but I don't even know what channel they're on anymore. I don't even know if that channel still exists. Like basically when I was like 11, I was really into Twilight or 10 years old. I can't remember. I was very young back then. And so I did like a, I mean, when the movie came out, I did like a review on the movie and I recorded it on my Sony bio laptop, like my pink laptop. And I uploaded it onto YouTube.

And then after that, I was like, I was really obsessed with like all those like beauty YouTubers. That's how I learned how to do makeup was through YouTube. So I was like, I need to replicate that. So I would do like, what's in my handbag videos. I didn't even have a handbag. I was like in year seven, like I didn't have a handbag, but I was like, I was like, let me get a sports girl and buy bags so I can do this. This is so cute. Yeah. And I, um, well, I just checked to my saliva.

That tends to happen sometimes when I get excited. But um, I remember like my, the videos that I made was like, I was really into gossip girl in year seven, probably a bit inappropriate, but I was about to say like, like a 12 year old just getting really into gossip. That is not an appropriate age.

Oh my God, no, but I made like a gossip girl review videos where I'd be like, Oh, you know, wouldn't it be great if like Dan and Blair got together and then like three seasons later they would get together. I know. I'm like, I predicted this. Oh my God. Did it, did this tell anything to you like from a young age of what kind of person you turn out to be? Yeah. I mean, I guess so.

Cause like, look, like ever since I was like very young, like my parents would record me on like their VCR, like to document like my childhood. And so when I was three, my little brother was born. And so it's, it went from me singing twinkle, twinkle little star to the camera to like him also joining in. And so, and like sometimes he would grab the microphone for me and I'm like, no, no, no. And I would grab it back from him. Like I needed to be the star of this show kind of thing.

And so I think from a young age that, that definitely informed who I am today. I love that. Absolute chaos as a young child. Oh, absolutely. I was like, he can't be the center of attention. It's me. Yeah, clearly. I'm the oldest. Shut up. You're staying still. You're not getting a say in this. You can't sing. What are you doing? You can't even speak yet. You were just born yesterday. Shut up.

Oh my God. I think I've been chaos, but I mean like, you know, the fact that you've recorded yourself, especially with Gozziwell, that just astounds me that you were watching that at such a young age. Oh, it's cause my, like all my cousins are much older than me. And one of my cousins introduced me to her at like 11 years old and I was like, oh my God, this explains your Twilight obsession as well. My Twilight. I don't even know how that came along, but that was my first obsession.

I think I was like in year five or year six when I discovered it and I literally left to sleep over early so I can go home and keep reading. I remember the Twilight phase as well and I, and I particularly, I did not understand it, still don't like through this day. I feel like it's just like, um, well you never had a vampire phase in your life. Oh, I was Bram Stoker's Dracula though. Like mine was or Bella LaGosie. Like you know, classic, classic. I don't even know who those are.

I only know who Dracula is. Like Bella, who's that? Bella, that's the one, that's the only one I know. I mean like the real Bella, the real Bella. Um, no, but I always, oh man. Um, that, that franchise as well, like it's, it's funny because we watched, we watched the race, um, the first one recently and I'm like, it is not aged well. Oh my God. But you know what? I feel like I need to watch that movie like every few years just to like, it's comedy gold.

And like though, can I just say Christian Stewart is still attractive to this day. Oh my God. She's gorgeous. I wish they let her use her like natural eye color in the movies because they made her wear brown contacts. They did. Wasn't it? Isn't her natural eye color like bluey green? It's like green I think. Yeah. She's gorgeous. Oh my God. Um, uh, just like I watched her in, um, I don't know. Have you seen underwater? No, I haven't. I'm really bad with like watching new movies, even old movies.

I'm just like, I get distracted and I end up down like a YouTube loophole. Like I'm just like YouTube is like my Netflix. This explains this so much. Um, but no, like it's a great film and I think, um, it's like an, it's like an hour and a half to a house. Um, and it's just like her as this action here and I'm just like, yes, give it to me. But also, um, yeah, she's just great. She's like one of those underrated actors who was like, had a career, I think.

Oh, and you know, Twilight is not what I'd say great acting, um, in anyone's. It's got great actors. It's got great actors in not. Robert Pattinson. Oh my God. Who is now Robert Batinson, as in the Batman. He was amazing in that movie. I watched that. It was so good. I look, he is just, he has aged incredibly well. Cedric Diggory. I feel like this is constantly just like learning about your like secret crushes during. Oh my God. Robert Pattinson was probably like my first crush. Really?

Yeah. Probably like my first proper like celebrity crush. Yeah. All I'm getting, all I'm getting is a very inappropriate team. Like you fantasizing about a lot of people. Yeah. Fan fiction was a big part of like my, like me growing up. Really? Absolutely. Yeah. Like, um, all throughout high school was I read fan fiction till like 3am in the morning. I would write fan fiction. I was just very into the fan fiction world. How do you, I mean, this explains so much actually.

I mean, you do fan fiction. I know. Okay. Look, look. Like movies. I do. I do. Like, you know, I do, I do, I do. I mean, it's very interesting when you do read fan fiction and you write it. It's a very like surreal kind of thing. I don't think I ever think of my own work as fan fiction. Technically it is though. No, I know. It's terrible. I mean, like, look, look, every, everything that we write, everything that you see as a revamp is actually fan fiction of anything else.

Like, you know, any continuation of any show. I mean, Fifty Shades of Grey was Twilight fan fiction. Yeah. And I think that Dakota Johnson would only watch for her, like literally. I actually haven't watched it all Reddit because I'm like, that's not Edward and Bella. Why would I do that? Yes. I mean, it's just like, look, just replace the names with Edward and Bella. That's the only thing. Oh my God. I used to do that with One Direction fan fiction.

I would like replace the female name with my name. Yeah. I would do that. Oh my God. Yes. I literally watched like, Don't Worry Darling a few weeks ago. Oh gosh. I haven't watched it, but I've watched so many YouTube commentaries about it. It's interesting. It's fun. I mean, like it probably has one too many sex scenes that I really don't need to like have that many. It looks like it has such a great aesthetic. It does. It's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. And the cast.

Oh my God. Chris Pine, Gemma Chan. Love them. I know, but I feel like they're also like, Oh my God. Anything Gemma Chan is in. She's so underrated. She is. Right? She was the best part about Eternals. I really think. I haven't even watched. I'm not very good at watching Marvel. I watched like the new Spider-Man movie. Okay. I've watched all the like, okay, that's a lie. I watched like the first Spider-Man movie is probably like my favorite Marvel movie.

Although I haven't watched many, so that's inaccurate. Your broad knowledge. Yeah, my broad knowledge. I mean, if you could like, I mean with your career though, as well, you've done comedy, you've done like drama, you've kind of done a mixture of things. What have you loved the most? What is, what have you sort of like drawn to the most?

It's interesting because like, I feel like at the start of my career, which I'm still in the start of my career, I suppose it hasn't been very long, but I think everyone sees me naturally as a comedy actor. And I think this year I've been really starting to explore the drama side. And I think that actually makes my comedy acting better because I start to realize, Oh, comedy is actually the same as drama. It's just, you know, it's just got different beat structures and stuff. Right?

So, you know, I don't think I have a preference towards comedy and drama or drama. Like I love both, but I think in terms of like theater or film, definitely I prefer film. Yeah. I mean, like, because I think that the thing that I always like, the way you, there's like only very few actors that would ever say this, which is Liz is one of them who can speak a mile a minute and actually make everything sound coherent.

But I mean, like you do, and it's why, like, I always think that, you know, you have such a quick natured fire ant. But also I think the thing that's always interesting about you is actually is like, you kind of possess things differently. You do things very differently, which I think is, you know, but it's interesting that you talk about comedy as well, because you are quite silly. You are quite chaotic, but you're also very good at being creepy.

You're very good at being like, you know, sort of very straight and narrow. And just, you know, I think, I think you lean into drama and, you know, comedy and, and sci fi and horror, like all those categories, particularly well. Wow. Do you, is that? No, I've just never done a sci fi before. I would love to do a sci fi. I think, you know, like, I think you're, you know, you'd be great at it.

I think you also got like a gotten kind of a, it's sort of like that very, I want to say interesting personality, which kind of like exacerbates itself many different times. And I think the, the thing multiple personalities. Yeah. It was like, DID dissociative identity disorder. Like let's be, let's be straight. Let's say what it is. But no, I think, I think you, you will always possess those skills. But you know, also like, as we've said before, chaotic as fuck.

So you know, it's, it's, it's nailing you down to something that we will like, you know, like, you know, like, you're, you're such a hard worker as well. And so energetic and passionate, like where did all this passion come from? Where did young Liz find her passion? Honestly, I have no idea. Like I think from a very young age, I just always loved performing. You know, like when, when I was very young, I would put on like shows for my parents, like after dinner, I'd make them sit down.

I would involve my brother. I would be like, I'm putting on a show. And then when I got a bit older, older, like, you know, like seven years old or something like that. And then like, and then I started playing around with like computers and stuff. Okay. Maybe not seven. What did they, were there computers back then? Yes, they were computers. Yeah. It makes you sound like you weren't born in them. They were computers. You're not that, you're not that old. I was born in the very late nineties.

Liz is like, I was born before computers. I think. No, I just, I just don't remember if I used computers, like if I was allowed to use computers, like by my parents. Yeah, I was just like, no. And then, yeah. So, okay. So when I first got my first laptop, my own laptop, when maybe I was like four or something like that, that's when I started doing, making like little short films, more like my Sony cyber shot camera and involving, you know, like my neighbors and all that kind of stuff.

And I just, I'm like editing it on Windows movie maker. Oh my God, I don't know if you remember Windows movie maker. I do. But it was atrocious, right? Like iMovie is miles and like just so much better. I love that you're on iMovie now though, and I'm on Adobe Premiere and I'm like, do do do do. Oh look, yeah, look. iMovie is free. iMovie is free, exactly. I used the Adobe Premiere Pro free trial and then it expired. Please sponsor me Adobe.

Yeah, so, and ever since I was young, I just loved stories. I didn't do a lot of like co-curricular stuff, extra stuff growing up. So a lot of the time I just spent in my bedroom with my toys, creating stories, being like, I'm a teacher, I'm a doctor, like I'm a fireman or whatever. And so I just loved creating. I would, I remember like my talent show for primary school and stuff and high school, I would write these like little scripts, which were really bad.

I don't even know what they were like. And I would cast my friends in them, but like I would never put them up because they were terrible. But I just enjoyed doing it, like the process of it. Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of way to do it. And I think that if you deep search the internet, there is an 11 year old me somewhere on there making my first ever short film.

I do love that as well because I feel like, you know, not a lot of kids, you know, like think that that like was how you created stories back in the day. So usually we don't talk about as adults that we sit in our bedrooms and just go, play with our toys and go and make stories up. Did you ever sort of consider writing as a, as an interest ever in your life? Absolutely. I remember like when I was young, maybe like seven, eight years old, like I was really into like mystery books.

Like, I think it was like the Emily Rudder series or something that like I was really into. And so like for my mom's birthday, I literally wrote her a mystery like book and like printed it and like stapled it together and stuff and gave it to her. And then, you know, obviously I wrote fan fiction while I was in high school and stuff like that.

And it was interesting because when I graduated high school, I remember my, my modern history teacher saying to me, he was like, I think you're going to go into a career where you have to write a lot because you're really good at writing. Yeah. So I guess I did consider and like being an actor, I would love to also, I mean, I have always thought like, and people are always like create your own work and like it creates so much pressure to be like, oh my God, create your own work.

And I'm like, but I don't even know how to produce. I don't know how to direct. Like I don't know how to do these things. But I'm like, wait, but I did used to love writing. Like I can try. And then I start, I get, I get quite overwhelmed. I'm like, oh my God, like how do we even format a script? I don't know. Like I've never been taught that. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I taught myself as well. It's one of those things that, and then I did get a course and that helped.

But I mean, like a lot of, a lot of the time, I mean, like I never, I, I remember doing a directing course and I failed it. So it's like, that's always the fun thing is like, I remember I failed that course. Didn't mean I gave up. Yeah. And I think, I think the thing is like, there's no right or wrong way to do things. How do you fail directing? Like, I don't understand that. I mean, I was a very high curriculum and a very harsh teacher who had a very particular way.

And I think a lot of us felt the pressure, which was, um, he didn't like my shot list, which was one. Um, he's, he said my floor plan was really good. I was very happy about that. And then the other thing he said was like, the characters were a little bit confusing because I added stuff very last minute, which I thought, because I was panicked and like, I remember thinking back later, I was like, oh, if I had not added this extra stuff, it would have been fine.

Like I probably would have done much better, but it was cause I panicked and it was like, Oh, early twenties at the time. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to fail this if I don't like do as much as I can. So that was like my mentality. And then I ended up like, just, I did better in the theory than I did in the prac. And but now it was like, you know, you learn off everyone else.

And I think there's a lot of, you know, like even recently I was in a scene and I had to direct and it was my first time. Um, I'm going to, I love that the, the very subtle, No, not even, but I just was like, it was more out of my approval. Um, but I think one of the hardest things I did recently was I had to direct myself in a scene that I wrote. And that was actually much harder because when you, I haven't acted in eight years, that was a, that was a step that I hadn't done in a while.

And it was like rust, you know, shaking off the rust and remembering, Oh yeah, I do have these skills. Like I do have the ability to perform. I've just forgotten like the sum of it. And then I've just got to get, remember the basics and then build up. Um, and it was very interesting because I was against amazing cast of people who were all very supportive and, um, all at different stages.

So it was like really good because we all challenged each other and then sort of like, you know, it was very good to like react differently to each other. Um, but yeah, like one of the things was that because I wasn't watching the coverage, I didn't know what the shots would always look like. So I just kind of had to, that was very nerve wracking. My God. So you were directing and acting at the same time. That's insane. I don't know how people do that. You must be very talented.

I mean, like I'm, you know, I'm, I'm waiting till it all comes together and see how it looks. That's like, that's the thing that I feel about. But yeah, like I feel when, especially when I love a scene, especially when I love, love a project and I particularly always write things from a very sort of like my own vulnerability perspective as well. Um, and how I see the world. And I think that it's always from a very genuine and honest place because I hate, right.

I hate when sort of like moments feel forced as well. And in film or, you know, like, um, because a lot, a lot of the time you watch films and TV and I feel like a lot of moments just kind of there as fodder or it's just to be like, Hey, we did this. I can say, well, no, I write characters that I kind of feel like do exist properly and you know, it need to have a validation of care and, um, nurture. And I think that a lot of the time, you know, like it's writing gray, flawed characters.

Um, but I love flawed characters. They're the best. Yeah, absolutely. No one wants to watch a perfect person on screen. No. And I feel like, you know, whether I tend to write a lot of quick characters, which through my own, no fault of my own, I just kind of identify a lot with them.

Um, yeah, it tends to be female or queer and, and like, whenever I write these scenes and especially these characters, I always think of them as like how I remember friends growing up, how I remember myself growing up and how I sort of like relate to other people and how they talk to each other because I love what's always not said sometimes more than what is said.

And I love avoiding conversations, like writing, avoiding conversations because they're so fun to write, um, where people just go, no, I don't want to talk about this, but they don't overtly say this is not like they just kind of move and, you know, switch around things.

And I love those kinds of things because I feel like there's this people, um, it's like my, um, my, um, think for a moment, um, uh, Em's father, um, sort of like often is very literal and you know, 11 bits, but he was like, um, concerned because I wrote a bit, I wrote something on Instagram, which was very much like how, you know, I was feeling about the end of the year.

But, um, I sort of think I'm one of those people who opens the topic about mental health and, you know, and about, you know, like burnout and stuff like that and how you feel about things. And I feel like a lot of people, especially, you know, not everyone of our generation does that where it's like, Oh, we can avoid how we feel and that's easier. You know, like, I mean, are you someone who's very vocal about how you feel and things or are you very like avoidant? I think I'm quite avoidant.

Really? Yeah. Like, like as in no, no. Okay. To myself, I will admit, right? Like, and you know, just, you know, if the conversation comes up with, um, certain friends, I will like, we'll talk about it, but it's not something that I bring up. Interesting. Yes, but I am very honest with myself about how I feel. Interesting. Do you, why, why is that the case? Why, why I don't talk to other people about it?

Well, I just because, because, you know, I feel like everyone else has their own struggles and stuff like that. And, um, sometimes I'm just like, Oh, like, I don't want to, you know, impinge on their day. I don't want to be like, Hey, you know, let's have a conversation about how I'm feeling right now. Yeah. I mean, like, but I'm a bit of a loner in that sense. Yeah. Do you feel like how, how do you feel like that's impacted you as an adult as well? Um, I don't know.

I guess I'll have to, I'll have to wait and see. Like I feel like, um, yeah, I mean, I, like, I do talk to my friends about like certain things if they really do bother me and like it'll come up. Um, but I'm often not the kind of person who talks unless they're spoken to about these things. Really? I find that's very interesting. I mean, like, I guess I seem like a very open person and I am like, if someone asked me, like, I'm absolutely happy to talk about it, right?

But I'm not going to be the one to bring up the conversation. Interesting. So you're always like, please ask, you know, yeah, like as in, Oh, I'll ask them how they're doing and stuff. And if that opens a conversation, then you know, but I don't, I don't ask them how they're doing so I can talk about myself. That's not, that's not. I feel like there's, I feel like there would be a very selfish thing. I just want to talk about me. So shut up. Let me take the fucking stage.

Okay. Yeah. And also I find it difficult also to talk to, well, actually look, a lot of my, like if I have frustrations and stuff around, um, you know, what's going on, it really depends. Like if it's stuff to do with, uh, like general things in my life, then I'll typically go to my, like my friends who I've had for a long time.

If it's stuff, um, that's to do with my acting career or how I feel like, you know, at this place in my career, then I will like tend not to go to my, um, you know, friends who I have known for a long time because they're not in this career. So it's hard for them to even understand it. And you know, um, so I would have to go to my acting friends for that.

So yeah, sometimes when I do feel, you know, like a bit, like quite overwhelmed, I will hit up, you know, my acting friends and be like, Hey, like, do you also feel like this kind of thing? Are there things that you felt overwhelmed you particularly about your career?

Oh, just like, um, sometimes when you like, okay, because we are in charge of our own career because we're, you know, even, even though we have agents or managers or whatever, you don't know when that next audition is going to come in. And sometimes you could be, you know, have a lot of downtime and then it's like, well, what do I do in my downtime kind of thing? It's like, sometimes I feel overwhelmed with like, Oh, but should I be doing this? Should I be doing that?

And it's like, well, why am I thinking, Oh, should I be doing this? It should be like, I want to do this. And so, and then sometimes I'm like, but should I be resting? Because resting is obviously very important for creativity. But then I'm just like, and then like, I had this whole discussion the other day with my, um, my friend who was also an actor and I was just like, I don't know how to rest anymore. I'm just like, I'm like, what is rest? I was like, is rest like not looking at my screen?

Because like, you know, like even when I'm having rest days or whatever, I'm like looking at my phone or like watching Netflix or something. And I'm like, how is that resting? You know what I mean? And I'm like, should I just be not doing anything at all? But then I feel really weird just staring into space, but I'm like, but that's what I used to do as a kid. Just stare into space. Just like stare into space and like, you know, find things to do that aren't staring at screens.

Yeah. Cause you, are you like read books and stuff like that? Do you sort of do that on your downtime? Um, yes, I try to, but my attention span is just not very good. I mean, do you have ADHD at all? I mean, look, I've definitely like, like thought about it and like looked into the symptoms and there's a lot that I'm like, maybe I have ADHD, but then I think about like how I grew up and you know, like, um, I went to an academically selective school. I was able to excel academically and stuff.

So I'm like, I don't think I have ADHD. I'm like, I was able to focus and like get good marks and stuff. ADHD has this wonderful ability to call hyper-focus, which you can do exceptionally well at things. Maybe, maybe. So maybe that was, maybe that was your hyper-focus. Maybe that, I mean, that's possible. I've never, I've never really looked into it, but yeah. No, cause like I, I, I f**k listening to you and I'm like, there's some traits there. Um, definitely.

I mean like that's really interesting as well. Like I feel, you know, because, because of the way I guess you've, you've grown up and you're very energetic and everything as well. Um, but I do like, you know, I mean, what, what has been one of the biggest challenges in your career of light? What is it? What has been something that you've gone?

Like, you know, this is not the trajectory I want to go or what way is it like, because as a performer, you, you know, you talk about defining your own career. What are things that you definitely don't want to go into in terms of your career? Um, I don't think I have anything that I definitely don't want to. I'm very open to, um, exploring like all parts of this creative industry. And I think there's so much exciting stuff and you don't know what's going to come around the corner.

I think what is challenging for me specifically is as an Asian Australian, um, performer is, you know, uh, breaking through into the industry and being like, Hey, um, you know, I deserve to be, you know, a lead role or even, um, there's just not that many roles available when you are a person of color. Yeah. Yeah. God, there's you have to, well, it goes back to that thing about like accents and everything, which is just, you need to, you know, put on an accent and talk a certain way.

And I think, um, you know, it's, it's very interesting because I don't, I disagree with entirely and I think that we need more like leads of different, you know, ethnic backgrounds. Yeah. And I mean, yes, there is a move towards, you know, seeing like, you know, and I love seeing like Asian people in lead roles and stuff, but there never is more than one in each friendship group, unless it's a show based around like Asian cultures, such as like Kim's convenience or crazy rich Asians.

Um, yeah, like unless it's a show that's like centered around an Asian family or an Asian friend group, there's never going to be more than one Asian. God, no, it was like, um, it's like Ryan Chang's, like, um, when he was in a, was he in uni and he did that uni comedy series. That was great. It was so good. But he was, he was literally like the only Asian kid in that group of friends. Right. Exactly. There was like not many. Yeah. And I absolutely, um, experienced that growing up.

Yeah. I mean, like, do you feel like now as well, you know, cause it's like, I want to talk a bit about this because I think this is very true as well in, in Western society. And it's kind of like, we beauty, we sort of beautify the Asian look and everything. And then we think it's very elegant because it's like, does an age or, you know, like people think about it like that. Does that irritate you at all? Um, no, not particularly. I, I'm not, I'm not irritated by the fact that I never age.

I am a mortal and therefore get fucked. I am a mortal. I am a vampire. Your dream is a childless country. Asians don't raise it. I'm not irritated by that, but you know, um, I, I, I find there is still a bit of a, like a hypersexualization of, um, especially Asian females in the Western world, which, you know, comes from like the colonization of Asian countries and all that kind of stuff.

So yeah, you know, beating those kind of stereotypes as well, which I think we are moving in a direction where we, um, you know, I don't really see that stereotype played out in media anymore. Yeah. I haven't seen it probably in the last like 10 years, which is, you know, 2010 kind of felt like it was the cap off period.

Yes. But I think, I think that kind of media, because it was so prevalent before, I think it still really does impact, um, you know, the, the viewpoints of people in society because especially when I was in Europe, I found a lot of people cat calling me on the street by saying, by saying like, ni hao and stuff like that. Wow. It was very disturbing.

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you talk about hypersexualization as well, because it's the difference between like being sexual or being like beautiful. Like this is the thing I talk about as a photographer as well, which is like, because my, my, my love for photography and like this really nice lady who we dogs hit for brought me, um, brought over her friend's books because she knows I'm into photography. And one of them is about like a nude photographer's career, like talks about it.

Um, and it's just like, he spent, I think 40 or 50 years just asking people and paying people to like, you know, just be like, do you want to earn some money to do some new photography would post an article in the paper back when you did that. And so an article would go like a little snippet would go out and he'd get, you know, a few phone calls and people would do it.

Wow. And I thought, you know, I think that the thing is like, now we say about this as art is I never looked through the sexualization lens. I never looked through that. I always look at it like through beauty or elegance. Um, there's particularly how a few human body looks. It's very elegant. It's very like, you know, different body shapes and everything is very nice. And I hate art.

I particularly hate when artists sort of like Photoshop too much out or like they, I only use Lightroom, so I only change colors. So you basically hate everything on Instagram. Yeah, basically. Yeah. So it's just fucking awful place. Um, if anyone looks at my Instagram and you want to know how I do photography, I am very like basic. I am very basic. What I've captured in camera is generally what it is. And so I love that. Well, it's always how I don't like being overly edited.

I don't like that at all. No, but I think that it's like those photos that are in talk of you. They're great. I love those. They're beautiful. He doesn't know that. And, um, he's just like, we share very similar, um, the identical values because like, and we often have this joke of, are we the same person? It's very sweet.

But I mean, like, you know, we, we do think a lot of the time that I think when you look at Instagram and the oversaturization of beauty and elegance, it does become distorted of just, you know, um, how we view everything is particularly like actors and female actors because it does go back to that sexualization where it's like, Oh, okay. You could be wearing something that's a bit more revealing. Well, that's just inappropriate. Or, you know, isn't she hot?

Like that to me is baffling as well, because I feel, I dunno, I just find it weird, especially now because it's 2022 people. Yeah. It's like societal expectations about how women should behave. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, I, do you feel like you, you know, still to this day, do you dress more how like you want than you used to, or do you feel like you dress more for society?

It's so funny because I remember, um, I mean, I feel like, um, especially when I was in high school, I was quite, um, confident and outgoing, like to start with, um, to start with. And now I'm, I, now I hate myself. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. Now I'm a fucking introvert and no one loves me and get fucked. But, um, like when I was in high school, like, you know, I dressed the way I wanted to.

I, when I was in year seven, I wore blue Island every single day to school because that's how I like to express myself. And I had a side ponytail and you know, and before this was, you know, before, you know, people discovered feminism, I guess, um, because people, oh, cause also I made my skirt kind of short because I was like, I didn't like the long skirts. I was like, I want to wear a short skirt. So my mom helped me have my skirt. Anyway, that's very sweet of her. That is very sweet.

And obviously she did not care. Right. And so, you know, it's fine, like you can express yourself however you like, but people at school, I went to an old girl school, they took an issue with this. And yes, I was caught a slut. Um, yeah, a lot of horrible things. And I mean, at the time I was just kind of like, I don't really see the issue kind of thing. Um, and you know, now that kind of stuff would never fly. No one would ever call you a slut for wearing a short skirt, obviously.

No, I mean, like you, has anyone ever heard of the mini skirt and like, you know, anything like that, that were huge. Right. Um, I think they came back in the resurgence a few years back and then they sort of disappeared. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I think, I think to an extent we are always influenced by society in the way we dress because it's like the hottest trends or whatever. And I do like, I love fashion.

So like, I think I am very influenced by trends around me and stuff, my environment, my friends, my peers, like, um, you know, Instagram and stuff like that. So whether or not my style is my own or whether it's informed by society, I think it's a mix. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like that as well because I, I'm a bit of a mix as well. Like I used to dress very like in suits a few years back and then now it's sort of like, Wow, I can't even imagine that.

I love, I, for years I loved wearing suits and it was just kind of like the thing. And now I just kind of like go to Dangerfield or Princess Highway. I fucking love Dangerfield. How good is it? Oh my God. Yeah. Big fan. I think it's also like, um, you know, and it does go back to that sort of thing where it's like, you know, gender conformities and everything and how we dress. Um, and I don't really get bothered by it as much anymore.

I used to be, you know, like when I was probably like 12, um, my parents gave me a kilt and I, I fucking love a kilt. I love a skirt. They're great to wear. Nice and breezy. They're so breezy. So easy to pee in. Yes. Right? Oh my God. And pants are just a pain. Yes, except for when you're forced to wear a skirt in school, like throughout winter.

Yeah. I don't think, I think it's like now, it's particularly like, you know, in a few years when I have kids, um, that is something and I'm going to make sure that they actually have the option and they go to a school where there's an option. You know, they don't get forced to be like, it's winter. You have to wear a skirt. Look, my school did have an option to wear pants, but, um, if you did, you'll probably be called a loser. So no one did. Well, that's the tamest way to be.

Which school did you go to? I went to Sydney Girls High School. Ah, this explains everything. I do like Sydney Girls High School. I know, like I know a few things. I don't want to rip on it too much, but no, it's like, yeah, I feel like schools, schools nowadays have kind of stripped that all. Yes, it's a different time now. Yeah. Because like, you know, kids these days, like, you know, watching so much stuff that is different representations of everyone.

And I feel like everyone just goes to school and they're kind of like non gender conformative every everything. And I'm like, good, this is the society we need to be rather than very black and white society we were before. Yeah. But it's interesting because I mean, Sydney in particular is still very much divided into boys, boys schools and girls schools. That's much more common than co-educational schools. Yes. Although I will say this, I went to a co-ed school and it was the best thing for me.

Like I fucking hate men so much. Even though I'm bi, I'm just think like, I'm like, nah, I hate them. They suck. They're only pretty to look at, but that's about as extensive. I mean, I would hate to go to a boys school. I can't even imagine how horrible it would be.

Yeah. I mean, there's also like, there is something about like, I guess like toxic masculinity as well, which I talk a lot about, but it's very interesting because I remember like being year eight and there was this huge, I was very private kid. Like I was like kept to myself and I was very shy. So I was like, I don't want to talk to anyone about like anything to do with sex or sexualization or anything like that.

I remember like there was like, I was sitting at the grip of the table in maths class and all the boys were like, oh yeah, no, you know, like talking about penises because you know, what are kids normally talking about? They just talk about their dicks half the time. And then that was all they were doing. And they just kind of like all targeted me and was like, do you, do you touch yours? I bet he doesn't. I bet he doesn't. And that was like the most, and I just felt so embarrassed.

I was like, I don't want to talk about this, but it's interesting now being an adult and I just don't give two shits because everyone has organs. Everyone does it. Yeah. Fucking hell. You know what was interesting? It's like, you know, at boys schools, I mean, I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about when I was in high school, you know, like the boys always openly talked about sex. You know, talked about how they watch porn and stuff.

But at the girls school, we would never really openly talk about, you know, masturbation. We would openly talk about sex, but not masturbation, like female pleasure, right? That was like such a, such a taboo subject that we would only talk about with like amongst our friends. And it was still kind of like, there was shame surrounding it.

Whereas like, I feel like the stigma and like taboo-ness of like female pleasure now is also, you know, it's, it's, there's not really much of a stigma around it. I don't think so. I think a lot of people, you know, talk very openly about it. I know so many of my female friends that talk about it. Like, and I just, I think it was a taboo. I think there still is a taboo with some people. I think, absolutely. I think some women don't want to talk about masturbation and that is totally okay.

But I, I do think it's like, you know, female pleasure and especially, you know, it is such a natural thing. It's like, to be ashamed about. No, but it's interesting because we talk about like, um, I think, I think the way I always sort of like mentally approach sex as well, especially growing up was always like, as long as my partner was having a good time, that's the main priority.

And I've dated, um, I've dated a majority of women, but I've always found like, that was my sort of making sure they had a, you know, a good, nice time. They've enjoyed it. It's not, you know, you're not thinking, oh, it needs to be perfect.

Cause I think it's the other side of it, the coin, which is like, you know, the pressure of always being perfect, um, with sex and, you know, especially like, you know, there, there's definitely been some relationships where I'm like, you know, the, this wasn't the best, but you know, the relationship itself, the emotional connection was great.

So that kind of counteracted to being okay sex, like, and I feel like that's kind of a common conversation that I felt like wasn't had at school, but yeah, I remember nothing talked about female pleasure in sex ed, nothing talked about like safety for women as well. A contraception other than just condoms. Like that was not a thing. Um, and yeah, it was like the idea was a lot of, um, a lot of girls that I've met now have a lot of like, um, health conditions.

And so that does impede on some, uh, you know, uh, satisfaction and stuff like that. So I, no one talks about that. You hear about it from your doctor for the first time. You're like, what on earth is that? Yeah. I mean, like, do you, do you like, and I also feel like, you know, I guess because when you go to, I think it happens also in co-ed schools. And I remember like, you know, they were like, no sex before marriage kind of thing. It was very like Christian.

Oh my God. No, we did not have that talk. I mean, there was a little bit of talk in my high school, like in my primary school more so than my high schools. Right. Was it a Christian school? No, it wasn't even, it was a public school. That's fucking weird. It was because we went to like- They were telling you not to have sex before marriage when you were like eight year old kids? Yeah. I know. I was like, look, sex ed came like a little bit after that.

So, you know, like I remember the first time I like, I saw a tampon and I was like, I think I was in year six and I was like, what is this? They're also horrifying to this day. They're like, I don't know why. I hate tampons. I don't use them. I don't know anyone who does. They're, I mean, like you can have diseases from them, like toxic shock syndrome and all that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know why you would use them. No, they just sound awful.

No. But I mean, like, do you, I love that you were so up in arms about like no sex before marriage. What the fuck is wrong with you? What are you indoctrinating these kids with? I don't understand. They can have sex whenever they fucking want. I know.

But isn't it, isn't it a very kind of weird thing because I, I like, I was such a, you know, with, with my sort of like sex life and everything, I was very quiet about it until probably about 18, 18, 19 is kind of like when things kicked off for me. But I remember like, you know, one of the taboos that I had a conversation with a lot and you know, everyone, this is probably the first time I ever announced these facts on podcast, but I was 22. I was 22 the first time I in quotes had sex. Right.

Because also, you know, like what is sex? People usually define sex as like male and female intercourse, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you know, quote unquote, that's, that's what I apparently had it. And I look back at it now and I'm like, Oh no, it was way before that. But I mean, like, you know, it's very interesting that I feel like that's kind of what we lay the grounds with. And it's so backwards and so wrong.

Um, because God, I remember like, you know, if I really thought about it, and like the first orgasm I ever had was probably when I was 14, 15. Wow. And it was like, you know, and I didn't know what it was. I was like, this feels nice. This is the thing. This is what you do with yourself, but you don't think of it and go as an adult. This is not normal. Right.

Yeah. And, and another side of that coin is also asexuality, which is getting a little bit more representation now in like, you know, in like young adult books in, um, I watched Heartbreak High recently where a character was asexual. And I was like, I've never seen that kind of character on screens before. And I think that is so important. Yeah. I love, I love that.

I remember meeting, um, when I was probably about 23, I remember a friend who was asexual and, and they just were not interested in anyone. And I was like, cool, cool. And I mean, like, that doesn't always the case. Like some people who are asexual are interested emotionally in people, but yeah, it's like, it was very interesting conversation. And he was just like, yeah, no, I'm very happy by myself and you know, this, this is my life. And I'm like, cool, you do you.

Yeah. And I mean, I think it can be very hard to be like asexual in a world where it like hookup culture is such a big thing. Right. Like you might feel like, oh, well, why don't I want to do that kind of thing? What was it? What was it like? Because with yourself and everything, when did you sort of like, what was your experimentation? Did you have a big experimentation few years or is it?

No, because like, yeah, it's like, so I mean, I bring up the asexual thing because, because I go through like bouts where I'm like, am I asexual? Like why don't I like anybody? Like, why am I not interested in anybody? Like, why do I just want to be by myself? Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I think, no, not really. Like I don't really conform to like hookup culture or any of that kind of stuff. And I think, yeah, I think that was also like a thing where I was like, am I weird? Am I abnormal?

Because I don't want to do these things that everyone else or my friends are doing it. You know? Yeah. So I think, you know, it's interesting. Have you ever like done the dating apps at all? Oh, yes, I have. And have they been a good or a bad experience? I'm not particularly good, no. I'm like horrifying. They're like the worst. Oh my God. I don't like them. People say weird things on there. Yeah. And it's just, it's so, I don't understand how you can form connections.

Yeah. Like I just, it just seems like you're adding things to your shopping cart and never checking out or something like that. Yeah. And I think, you know, I like that you sort of mentioned that thing about being asexual or like suspecting it, you know, because you might feel weird or anything like that. I think it's very normal. It's very normal. Like, I mean, what, what were the defining traits that you thought this could be asexuality for you?

Well, just like going years without like dating anybody or even like wanting to date anybody. Yeah, right. So it was like just completely no interest. I mean, like, no interest. Because I feel like there's a misunderstanding, a misconception about what asexuality is as well. It doesn't mean you don't have a sex drive at all. And I feel like, you know, that's the other side of the coin where people kind of go, well, what that means you just don't like anyone.

It's like, you just don't, you know, you just might not want to date or you might not want to connect with anyone in that. But I mean, like, you know, that's the thing. Do you then like have to explain to people? It's like, oh no, I am actually also. I do have a sex drive. You know, I don't explain anything to anybody because no one deserves no one deserves an answer to that.

But like, it's weird because as like, as a single woman in society, people will always be like, oh, like, you know, why don't you like talk to that guy or like, you know, yeah, oh, I can set you up. And I'm like, I'm very cool. Like being single, like, why do I have to be attached to somebody? Yeah. I mean, so I think that's when I start to feel a bit like, okay, just leave me alone. I want to be a loner. Oh my God. I love that.

I like that you say it's also no one else's business because it's such a. It's a two sided coin really. But I mean, like, do you feel like you've found more people who are like, you know, more recently that are similar? Yeah, absolutely. Like, um, I think one of my best friends is like that. We've had conversations like that because we both sort of like, um, there was, yeah, we both sort of left our first relationships at the same time, like in the same period of time.

Like three years without dating anybody and she also, she went probably like four or five years without dating anybody. Um, and yeah, and I think we both had conversations where we're just like, you know, you know, this is how we feel and it's okay.

Yeah. I mean, that's like, you know, it's one of those things cause like my old flatmate was demisexual, which if people don't understand that you have to have an emotional attachment and it's not like you, you also don't conform to the hookup culture. It's actually a little bit off the spectrum of asexual where you, you know, but you have a deeper, and then, and then there's like pansexual. There's like all sorts of like, not just straight heteronormative senses. Not everybody is hypersexual.

No, it's, it's, it's funny as well because I think since taking, I take, um, anti-anxiety meds and, and that has put my sexual, like sexual drive lower, but even before then I didn't have a high one. I've never had a high one and I could not understand for the life of me guys and being like constantly talking about sex. And I was like, this is boring. This is actually really boring. It must be very hard.

Um, uh, like for male identifying people because, because a lot of them, you know, a lot of that culture is like, oh yeah, like we talk about sex all the time. All we do is think about sex when that's not the case. Yeah. Right. Like, and yeah, I mean, I know a lot of, um, like my male identifying friends who are not hypersexual or always thinking about sex or like watching porn. I mean, like I think always like porn was one of those conversations that I didn't watch porn growing up.

I don't understand why people did. I never did. I, I like literally my version of porn, which I think was the most cute thing in the world. And I remember telling, um, Emily and my partner about this was like just watching romantic scenes in movies. That was my version of porn because it was like, it was like connection that I love. Yes. And you don't get that in porn. No. You get the pizza boy coming along and going, Hey, do you want my slice? That's great writing. The pepperonis in there.

Look, come on. Look it's so easy to write porn. Oh my God. But I mean, like it's also kind of like, yeah, it's, it's one of those sort of things that I think, you know, growing up completely, I removed myself from. And I think as an adult, that's why I have sort of always been like very weeded out by more like particularly friends who talk a lot about, you know, um, just from a male gaze as well.

They talk about like, you know, sex and, you know, it does happen also like in some of my, um, female identifying friends, um, or, um, cis female friends, they do talk about like, you know, that culture as well. And they talk highly about sex a lot as well. And that's fine. But I do find a little bit like I mostly, if I ever talk about sex in depth, it is always with like one of my best friends where it's just like, yeah, it's like, you know, that conversation opens up.

But I do feel like it's, it's a weird, it's, it's only been, I feel like our generation, particularly like the nineties kids, you know, even though we're like, we're not that many years apart. Like I think about six years, six years difference, but you know, I do feel like there was a sort of like disappearance in the nineties of like what normalization of sex was. And it varied the cis society that is, is now kind of gone into this very like, you know, a banner of everything is everything.

And you know, you, we live in this very flexible society because it's very interesting because my cousin's kids talk a lot about like, and they're once that once 13. And I think that, you know, that's really interesting conversations to come my way. What did they say? Oh, sorry. I'm waiting for a burp to slide up my throat. I need a drink. No, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. It was very funny because it was just going, I was like, fuck you.

But I know they, they identify as non-binary and they're 13. So they, and they just talk a lot about like being queer at such an early age. And I'm like, that's great. That's amazing. But you know, like, because I remember not discovering anything about myself. I never even heard of that term when I was 13. Like when did you feel like you were comfortable in your own skin when you like as a person, not just as a performer, when did you feel like that was a thing for you?

God, I feel like I'm discovering that every single day. You know what I mean? Like I feel like, you know, you go through like periods of, I guess, sort of like, if I can picture it, it's like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly kind of thing. And I feel like there's so many different cycles of that in your life, right? Like at one point in my life, I'd be like, oh, I feel so comfortable. And then I'll discover something else about myself. And I'm like, oh, I need to look into that.

And then you'd go through that whole process of a caterpillar becoming a butterfly again. And it just like, you know, I feel like every, every few years that happens. Yeah. Right now I feel quite comfortable with who I am, which, you know, I'm fortunate to say, but who knows? Like maybe I'll have another crisis and realize something else about myself. And I'd be like, oh my God, now there's something I need to explore as well. You know?

Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's good because it sounds like you've grounded yourself very much in, in who you are in the moment as well. Because I do like, I do like that, you know, it goes back to that fashion thing and, you know, and like, I feel like everything that you said today as well was, you know, just combinating the fact that you're always like learning and self-improving, but also understanding. Well, I think as humans, we always evolve.

Like, you know, that's, yes, but not all of us, not all of us. That's correct. Um, but I mean, like, you know, do you feel like that's affected you also as a, like, as a person, as a performer of things that you want to do when things that you're very passionate about? Because you know, like, I know, I know you and I create crazy content, but, um, or, or a plan to play, um, make a lot of weird ass things.

But, but I mean, like as a performance, you, you know, does that with each learning experience, do you think you've sort of like brought something away, um, with you or, or for the next project that you want to do? What have you think you've learned? Yeah, I think, um, you know, I always want to bring like my authenticity, like my authentic self to everything that I do.

Sometimes, you know, and that might look different, like this year compared to next year, like I could be, I could be, I mean, not a completely different person. That would be really weird. Like if I was a completely different person, then you're not even like yourself. Who's this Liz Lin? Um, but yeah. And I think, uh, as well growing up, I think I just become more and more, I'm in touch with my culture and more comfortable with my culture and what that means for me as well.

Yeah, cause I do like that you sort of like go yearly back home and it's not lately because China won't let foreigners in at the moment. And I'm technically a foreigner cause I'm not a Chinese citizen. Well, that's fucked. Yeah, I know. But also it's also a little concerning, a little concerning. They're not open to the rest of the world yet. No, look there.

Um, but you know, like the fact that you could for a long, you know, growing up as especially as well, I think, I think that's a very kind of important kind of thing for yourself, but also it's very interesting because you, you know, you went, you know, you're so fond of it, like the people here and, you know, and the projects that you involved yourself in and, you know, you've worked on some very weird and wacky things over the last few years.

Do you think that's always going to be the trajectory of like, do you want something that particularly feels like culturally relatable to you as well to kind of show that side? Do you think that's something you'll work on one day? It doesn't necessarily have to be, but I would love to work on something that, um, you know, I can bring like parts of my culture to, you know, that kind of stuff isn't written. So I think it's something that I'm going to have to write myself.

I mean, I think that, yeah, I think, I think you should really, because I think that's like such an important thing. And I think that's like, particularly with the love of genres that I've always loved, you can teach yourself like, you know, through like sci-fi or drama or like stuff like that, or it's, you know, um, kind of just the layouts of how things work and how you feel about things. Um, do you like how, like, how good is your like Mandarin or your like Cantonese or anything like that?

Um, yeah. So my Mandarin is like pretty acceptable. I would say like, I love that you say accepted. Like I can converse in it, but I don't think I would be able to like work at a business profession see. So you couldn't be like completely fluent with someone speaking fast Mandarin to you and you're like, um, look, I probably could, but okay, like I could, but it wouldn't be super sophisticated Mandarin.

Like I could, I can definitely speak like very fast Mandarin and have a full on conversation, but it wouldn't be particularly sophisticated. Um, but it's, you know, like one of my friends was saying, she's a bit older than me and she was like, um, she was saying that like my Mandarin is probably the best that she's heard from someone in my generation. Really? My generation has, a lot of them have lost that. Yeah. The ability to speak their language.

I mean, like this is more of a fascination for me than anything else, but would you ever like play someone who's bilingual? Like you want to be a character who's bilingual? Yes. And I have played a character that's bilingual, I believe. Oh sick. Yeah. In what? Just a short film. I think that I did. Maybe the second short film I did, she was bilingual. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely, I mean, that is how I speak at home to my parents and stuff. We speak in Chinglish, we call it.

Chinglish. Yeah. Respect that that is fractured English, fractured Chinese. Yeah. Um, I mean like, because how many in mainland China as well, how many languages are there? So many. Yeah. Cause like, you know, I remember in the nineties, early 2000 people, I sort of mentioned like Mandarin. Yeah. Mandarin is the, uh, the one that everyone learns in the whole country.

Then there's different like dialects and stuff like that, that offshoot from Mandarin, but the written language is the same all across. Yeah. Yes. It's Chinese. Interesting. I mean, like even with Cantonese speakers, they still write, um, Chinese characters. Yeah. Although they write traditional Chinese characters because once again, they did not go through the communist party reforms and stuff. So their Chinese characters is traditional, not simplified. Really?

Yeah. Okay. So like, how good are you at reading like, you know, Chinese these days? I can read it, but quite slowly. Okay. Yeah. Have you ever seen anyone with tattoos that they think says something, but actually doesn't say that at all? No, I haven't seen a lot of, um, Chinese tattoos. I see a lot of Japanese ones, I think, but even, uh, like ones that are Chinese, usually it just says like one word, which is like love or something like that.

Okay. Cause I always like love when people get like words that they think have said one thing and then they're not. It actually means like prawn or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I'm like, you clearly translated very badly. And the tattoo artist was like, yeah, sure. It's so funny. Yeah. Like, I mean, sure. Tattoo is art. Whatever. Do what you like. Do what you want. If you want to have- Put instant noodle on your, on your chest if you like. Yeah, no, no one will care.

I mean, like, do you, what's things though, as, as like, you know, an Australian, um, cause you were born here. You were like born in Sydney? I was born in Perth. You were a pass girl. I mean, not really. I grew up there till I was like 11 months or something. So I haven't been back since. But you're technically a pass girl. Let's, let's see here. It's on my, it's on my passport. You're correct. Yeah. So you're, you're technically like three hours behind everyone.

Um, but you know, like- Same time zone as, um, Shanghai. Same time zone as China because China uses the same time zone all around, even though it's such a giant country. Which is so bizarre. It's so bizarre, right? They all use Beijing standard time or whatever it is. What the shit? China, get your act together. Learn what time zones are. Fucking hell. It's the same time zone as Perth. So yeah. I, I, I like all my family have been to China except for me.

So I really cannot wait until I go to China and Hong Kong. Um, it is, it is planned one day. Yeah. Once they let people in. Yeah. No, once they actually let the fucking people- I mean, I love that you had to say the blue people. Oh yeah. Because I mean, does anyone talk about the blue Avatar anymore? Or like did people- Well, new movies coming out. So yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, when I talk about Avatar, I talk about Avatar, the last airbender. Like that's assumed knowledge for me.

Also what I love about that show is like, it was clearly made by America. Like it's such a good show though. It's so good. Legend of Korra Avatar. Oh my God. Legend of Korra. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. So you like Avatar, the last airbender? Oh my God, Legend of Korra. Oh my God. Legend of Korra is underrated. It's great. It's so good. Did it only get two or three seasons? Four seasons. Four?

Yeah. Ooh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But each season was like short. It was like 12 episodes. Yeah. It wasn't as long as the last airbender. No. I think they're making another live action of it. I saw that they were making a live action of Avatar, the last airbender. Yes. I was like, honestly, like my dream role ever is Azula from Avatar, the last airbender. I love her. She is your, like she, she, she is like my definition of like, you know, a

flawed character. She's so flawed and she's not just like this villain and you see like her upbringing with her. I mean, you've watched Avatar last year and I assume you know what I'm talking about. I'm not, I'm not just here talking to myself. You're like, who am I?

So like how her and Zuko are both brought up by the same family, but the treatment of them and you know, was so different and how they go on about like, you know, processing that trauma and like how they go on those parts, you know, like Zuko, even though, you know, his father like did not like him and thought he was weak and stuff. He still had

his mother's love, his uncle's love. So he was able to develop into this person who was then, you know, had, you know, was able to rule and then Ozula on the other side, she basically only had her father's approval and stuff. She was constantly going after that. Her mother thought she was a monster. No one else loved her. And just the sad part of that led her down. Yeah. I mean, like this, this just explains what kind of characters you want to play. Yeah.

I mean, deeply damaged complex characters. No one's happy. They're just fucking miserable. But also, Azula is a badass. Yeah. Would you ever like do your own stunts? Yes, absolutely. Are you very, are you a very fit person? You're like, what's a gym? I do dance. So like stunts and dance probably work well together. What kind of dance do you do? Like all sorts, like hip hop, mainly a little bit of contemporary. I do some Chinese traditional

dancing as well. And like, sort of like the modern version of jazz, which is not really like your typical jazz, but more so like choreography, like the K-pop styles that you see. Sick. Yeah. That's something I picked up in lockdown actually. So you got all these, I love how many people picked up dancing. Yeah. It was like, it was the 2021 lockdowns I picked it up. Ah, you're the later one. Yeah, the later one. Not the first one.

Not the first one. I don't think we had that much time during 2020 lockdown to really pick up a skill. No, I feel like everyone was just mediocally depressed. We were just like waiting for it to be over. Yeah, it was a very sad day. And everyone just like rescheduling their entire lives. I actually miss those days where you could just actually plan your whole year out, like from nothing. It was great. I can't do that. I'm an actor. Like, you know, someone wants me.

No, you could, I could barely lock you down for anything. The amount of times I've had to reschedule is like- It's because like I'll have an audition pop up and I'm like, oh, I have to do this audition now. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, you're just terrible. It's crazy. Yeah. Who knows where I'll be next week. I could be in like Puerto Rico next week. You know, I never know. How do you do it? How do you do it with that one?

It's crazy because you like, you got to be flexible, but at the same time committed. Yeah. How do you lock yourself ever down to anything? Yeah. So, you know, to my friends, I just have to be like, look, I make these plans, but just so you know, I will flake on them if something acting comes up. Interesting. Like I'm not a flaky person, but like priorities. Priorities. Yeah. I love that. You're a priority. Yeah. It's like, it's not my fault. They want me last minute.

Just it's just their fault. It's just, it's just the fucking agency guys. Just cause I'm so damn good. But like, you know, planning holidays is quite hard that way. Yeah. I imagine, you know, because. Cause all my friends work in corporate. So they're just like, oh yes. We're going to take this time off. And I'm like, cool. Like I will plan this with you, but you know, if something comes up, I will flake. Oh my God. I mean, what's it, what's been, what's been your biggest, like, what are you

looking forward to over the next year in terms of projects? What are you looking forward to next year? You know, I have nothing lined up, so I have no idea. I have no idea. I'm just auditioning. I'm currently, you know, looking to get my O1 visa for the U S and I will be going to the U S for just another little, like, I guess just to stay for it for a bit and just, you know, bask in the creative energy of LA. Really? So like for a few months? Maybe like a month or two. Yeah. Whereabouts in LA?

I mean, probably West Hollywood. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting as well because like LA is the city of lights that everyone talks about, but it's really shit city. I love it. Why? I like, cause recently I went, right? And I just, I mean, first of all, it was miserable and raining in Sydney. I go to LA, it's like sunshine. It's like coming into summer and it was just gorgeous. I mean, look, the pollution is quite bad, but I find the people there

very warm and like it's very much, it's very much a place you can just be yourself. Like no one has any inhibitions. Like no one's going to judge you. You can do whatever you like there and no one will judge you. Whereas I feel like Sydney's still does have a bit of like uppity judgment and all that. We're just assholes here. Let's be passive aggressive. Yeah. Okay. There's a lot of that in Sydney. A lot of that in Australia in general, just passive aggressiveness. Is that why you want to move?

I mean, no, look, I don't want to move because I do love Sydney. Like Sydney's my home and I love Sydney, but you know, it's good to change up the environment every now and then. I think it's good for our creative soul. The simmering soul that you... I mean, like if you're hoping for anything in the next

10 years, like where are you hoping to sort of be? Is there particular avenues that, you know, because you talk about wanting to get into film and you know, like, do you want to step away from theatre or you want to like stay in theatre as well? I love theatre as well. Like theatre performing is such a different sort of craft. I mean, not really. It's just like the audience, being able to feel an audience's energy is incredible.

And like, you know, it's quite like emotional as well when you like have that audience just responding to you like in real time. But I love, like I also really am passionate about film and TV. And I think with theatre, like not as many people will go and watch it, you

know, and so you don't have as much of a reach or influence. Whereas with film and TV, if you really want to talk about like society's issues or like, you know, break down those barriers, I think film and TV is really where it has to be done because people will, you know, turn on Netflix, turn on Stan, whatever, and watch those things and be like, oh, hey, that's me. Like, yeah, like I can relate to this person. And so I think film and TV is very special in that way.

I love that. I mean, like, you know, what about like, because I know, you know, you talk about what I talk a lot about radio, which I love. Do you think radio is something that you'll ever like really? Radio? What like Kyle and Jackie Oh? No, not Kyle and Jackie Oh. I mean, like doing like radio plays and performance stuff and based on radio. Do you think that's some avenue that you'll ever? Oh my god, that sounds really exciting. And hell yeah. Like, oh my god, I would do like

audio books too. I love audio books. And I really, I yeah, and I just, I love how like, you know, I like, especially when you're listening to like a fantasy book or something like that, and they're playing like multiple roles. And I'm like, oh my god, that's so interesting how they like, you know, manipulate their voice to like do this and do that. Yeah, I would love that too. So yeah, radio plays, that's kind of similar, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like audio. Just imagine you sitting there with an audio book and just going, I'm narrating Twilight actually. This explains why there's a new Twilight audio book coming out. Liz doing that. I'm going to upload onto YouTube for free. And I'll be sued by Stephanie Meyer. Yeah, I know. Only Stephanie Meyer. Not the company and not the people who made the film.

Stephanie Meyer. Because she's the only one who would care. I mean, before we wrap up though, I want to talk a little bit about like, you know, social media and everything, you know, because we touched a bit on that about like, but how do you use social media to kind of like, because you're terrible at messages. I'm terrible at social media too. Like how do you, how do you keep on top of projects and stuff with, you know, the terribleness of social media?

Oh, thank God I have agents because they're the ones who like email me the projects and stuff like that because I'm, I don't find any projects through social media. Really? No, I don't think so. I mean, social media, I really just use, look, I'm trying to get better at it. I'm trying to like build a brand or whatever, like curate my Instagram and

stuff. I'm just like very bad at posting on Instagram. Ever since like stories came out, I just get lazy and I occasionally post a story every now and then. Yeah, mostly about your dog. Mostly about my dog. That is not the only part of my personality. You'll be surprised to find out. A little bit. My dog also has an Instagram, which I'm really terrible at posting on as well. Oh, of course it does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So look, I'm not very good at social media, but I think I mostly use

it to like just scroll when I'm bored and watch reels and stuff like that. And, you know, look at astrology memes because I love that. I love that that came out of nowhere. It was like astrology memes. What is it about astrology that you love so much? I don't know. Like I think it's just like being like, oh yeah, I relate to that. Yeah, that's me. Oh, that explains so much. I can explain everything away with astrology. Do you ever stand at home in front of a mirror and just talk to yourself?

I definitely have done that before. But it's not a common occurrence, but yes, I have done that before. This would, if it was a common occurrence, I would be like, I feel like it is a common occurrence though. I feel like it's just a kind of thing that you do. No, I actually don't, but that's really interesting. But like, what would I talk about all day to myself in the mirror? I don't know. I talk to my dog sometimes. Yeah, I think that's pretty normal of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's the strangest thing you've done alone, actually? That's my question. What's the strangest thing I've done alone? Yeah. I have no idea. What's okay. Tell me is something strange you've done alone. So that just like inspires my brain somehow. Strangest thing I've done alone? I used to, when I was younger, I used to like pretend

I was dying, which was always quite fun. I used to love that. So when I was younger, I used to sort of like do this cool thing, which was trying to sort of learn how to throw myself backwards and trust that instinct of just like, ricocheting. I was interested in like stunts and dying and stuff like that. Wow. So I always wanted to do things like that when I was younger. Well, I feel like, okay, I'm an actor, right? So a lot of the time I do do a lot of strange

things alone. So like, yes, so I guess I've, you know, just practiced crying alone and stuff like that. Like, I don't know if that's that strange. Can you cry on cue? It depends. Like sometimes, yes, but not always. What's the what's the what's been actually, here's a good question. What has been the hardest thing to perform a scene in a short film? Like what short film has been the hardest to perform? Hmm, I don't feel like okay, I feel like scenes where you have to explode. Oh, I know. Oh

my gosh. So I did a short film recently where I had to explode and yell at this seven year old child. That was very difficult. She was so sweet. She was so lovely. We bonded so much. And then I had to do the scene where I was just absolutely going off at her and yelling and so angry and I was I felt horrible. We had to do take after take and I was like, oh my god, can I not yell at her in this take? Because the coverage is not on me. She's like,

no, but you have to. So she gets the reaction. I'm like, oh my god, but I feel so horrible because she's like this seven year old who looks four years old and she's just so sweet. So that was like the hardest. Definitely. Yeah. That's that's I mean, had to get through it in the end. Oh my god. I think so what happened was, after we did all her coverage, she left set because they're only allowed to be on set for a certain amount of hours. And then when they did my

coverage, I was really just yelling at a dot. So that was like, I was like, okay, now I can really unleash because otherwise I felt really terrible straight up yelling at her face. Yeah, I can imagine. Because that is just awful. I know. Oh my god. She was so sweet. After every take, I would just like hug her. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Jesus. This is and this is how you run a set kids. This is how you yell at a person. Never

let Liz near your kids. She will yell. I mean, did you have to go actually did you have to go through a working with children's check for that? I do have a working with yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was yes, you did have to have that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like that's you know, especially because of COVID and stuff like that's been really sort of taken into account of how many paperwork's done. Everyone on set had to have a working

with. Yeah. Yes. It's very easy. It's $50 for like, I think three years or something. Yeah. Yeah. It's like three, four. Yeah. Yeah. Covers you like, get it people. If you don't have it, just get it. Yeah, just get it. I work with kids quite a lot though, because my side job is like I'm tutoring. So what do you tutor math and English? That would be fun. Are you good at either of them? Yes, I am, which is why I do it. But I also enjoy

it. Like I do enjoy like high school math and English. It's quite fun. And English like sometimes, you know, sometimes I'll do Shakespeare and stuff. And I'm like, I can lend my acting knowledge to this. Yeah. Look how it works. Small child, you'll learn from me. Is that how you are? No. Have you ever made kids laugh when you're tutoring them as well? Yeah, I do definitely. I mean, it depends. Like, you know, the older kids, I feel like I can

relate to them a little bit more because you know, they're like 15 or whatever. And they, I can talk to them more about like their life and stuff like that. The younger kids, I just got to be careful. I don't freaking swear around them. Yeah, because fuck that. And yeah, you can you can tell like, you know, it was like someone asked me, it's like, is this a kids friendly content? I was like, fuck no. But it was so crazy. I remember,

like I teach like sometimes like seven, eight year olds. And I remember when Squid Game was a huge thing. They were all talking about Squid Game. And I'm like, you are watching Squid Game? That is so violent for a seven year old. Oh, I wouldn't even be caught dead watching. It's like the South Park was banned in my house. And I was like, well, and it's really interesting that people like I talked to some people like, why was that banned in

your house? I'm like, because it is not appropriate for kids. Of course, it looks like a kid's cartoon, but it is not. Yeah, exactly. But kids these days are watching very mature stuff. So I know it's kind of scary. Yeah, it is scary. And they were also spoiling Squid Game for me. That was really annoying. So was it the fact that they were watching it was because they were spoiling it? Yeah. Oh, my god, it was so annoying. I was like, I was like, I'm

only on the second episode, stop it. And they were like, this is not a spoiler. I promise. But this person died. Literally. I was like, ah, fuck you, child. I know. You're the demon. You're the devil, child. But children are very fun. And there's always a lot to learn from them. That's true. I mean, like, you know, they're terrors. Their fascination with the world is very interesting. And like, you know, they'll like they'll be like, oh, Liz,

have you ever heard of this type of shark? Do they have this type of shark? Like in Australia, whatever, because sometimes I will tutor kids from overseas, because it'll be over. Yeah. I mean, not zoom over like online platform. And I'll be like, yes, we do have that shark in Australia. And also, I've never heard of that shark before. But look, Google told me. Yeah. Google said yes. So I believe it. Exactly. Oh, my god. Oh, my god. I love that.

I love that you tutor kids. This makes it like so wholesome. Just a wholesome person. I can tell. All right, my final question. My final question for you is where can people find you where they can? Where can they stalk you on the internet? My Instagram is maybe Liz Lin. Why is it maybe? Okay, it's maybe Liz Lin, because there's no other way I can have my name Liz Lin, because I used to have Liz Lin with a double N. But then people kept

thinking my last name was with a double N. And that was really annoying. So then I was like, okay, let me try like Liz dot Lin, or Liz underscore Lin, or Liz Lin underscore and like all of those are unavailable. And the person who has the handle Liz Lin has not been on Instagram since 2011. So I'm like, I'm like periodically going on Instagram and like reporting her so that she can get her Instagram removed. So I can have that

username. So like, if you're listening to this podcast, please go on Liz at Liz Lin, Instagram and report that user for like being an impersonator. Oh, my god, the dedication and ridicule that you're going through to get that. I want that Instagram handle. It's not fair. She doesn't even use Instagram anymore. Oh, my god. I've learned so much about how like, how much you're gonna get removed. So that's how I use social media

actually guys. I just report this person who has my username. Yeah, I know. Clearly YouTube and reporting people on Instagram. And do you have a website? I don't have a website. Do you think you'll get a website? Maybe maybe if I like become like, like a multi hyphenate of a get a website. But if I'm just an actor, probably not. Because we have like IMDb Pro like show cast, casting networks and all that kind of stuff. Show cast is so good and IMDb

Pro. Yeah, exactly. So I don't want to pay for another subscription. No, that's a lot already. So like, fuck that. Exactly. Actually, like that's one thing that no one talks about is how expensive it is to be in the creative industry and how much God seriously and it's hard to explain to other people as well. It's like, yes, I am paying all this money to do a class and no, I am not booking any acting jobs. Like, how do you cover it? It's like,

I don't. I just cry at night when I financially can't eat. That is why I'm a tutor. Yeah, this is how I make some side cast. Shut up. It's just so weird to explain to people that you're like, putting all this investing money into a career. But yeah, at the moment, you might not be showing like seeing like monetary returns, but there are like other milestones that you're hitting, like, you know, you might be called back to that casting director, like,

repeatedly that that's a huge thing. But you know, they don't understand that that's like something that is, you know, an achievement. They just see them like they just like you make money from it. Yeah, I've been asked that question for years. And the answer is no. I've been asking myself that question for years. It's like, you can either you can either be poor. And that's it. Well, I mean, you can't take your money to the grave. So

who cares? I know it's really you know, and and the only thing is, you can tell your children just like you're not getting a cent of it if you have kids, which is an honest truth. Nine times out of 10. I don't I feel like if I have like when I have kids, I'm gonna be like, hmm, you might have some money, but not a lot. I mean, there is inheritance taxes there as well. Yeah, there is I think. So like, you know, maybe leaving money to your

kids is not a good thing. Too shy. I think about that. Oh, my God. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. This is a lot of fun. I'm glad you're listening to my own voice in my head for like the last hour or something. You're like, this is beautiful. Like, this is what I sound like. Wow. I should be an ASMR artist. You could do some ASMR now. Yeah. Is that your version of ASMR? Crazy. I remember like watching like a turtle like

eat a carrot or something like that. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is really soothing. But if it was a human eating a carrot, that's not soothing at all. Noted. This is what this is. This is this is what you look up in YouTube. No, it's just like my friends will send me things or sometimes like the things I look up. I actually don't look up anything on YouTube. I just get I just go on like my recommended and then like, I watch them in the deep dark

web. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God. I just need to process that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I just love user generated content. This explains so much. And yeah, I'm just processing this. I don't know why that shocked me so much. I was like, what? What? You don't watch vlogs. I love watching. I haven't watched vlogs in years. Vlogs are so good. I love watching people just do mundane things in their life. Like, it's actually I don't know why I just

love it. That explains so much. I mean, like, look, you know, this this maybe you should start making some art. Yeah, nah. Nah, nah, nah. Nah, passing that. Like, I don't understand why people watch like mukbang mukbang mukbang videos. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because I can't stand like listening to people chew their foods. Yeah, it's really disturbing. Oh, I can just hear the saliva slapping across your teeth. Like, it's just not pleasant. And people like

watch that while they're eating and I'm like, yeah, that's please don't please don't. I don't want to hear you chewing. It's like when I watch films and all I hear is people like being quiet and start whispering. Oh, my god. I know all I hear is like, and I'm like, fuck off. Oh, my god. That's so funny. It's like, like, I mean, I'm conscious of this too. Like sometimes, you know, when people smile and they have like a like a mouth noise

and they smile. Yeah, like that. Yeah. I mean, that doesn't irritate me or anything like that. I just it's fascinating. You're like, please don't. It's just fascinating. Like the noises that our body makes unconsciously. You know what I mean? It's just so fascinating. Now I'm just gonna like you're gonna listen back to this light. Oh, there's a noise. Oh, that does sound like a noise. Maybe I should be like a sound mixer or something. That would

be fun. I could see you doing. I think I would get a headache from having headphones on all day. Yeah, yeah, they do get tiring. Yeah. But thank you so much for joining. Thank you. I'm sorry. I've just been talking for ages. I love it. And if you want to go and check out more episodes of the things we do, you can check them out on Apple and Spotify. I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later. Goodbye.