The Things We Do... - Interview with Aimee Patmore

than anything we say can be edited in or out. I love it. Is there anything we shouldn't say on the podcast or is pretty much anything at it? I don't. As long as I don't get emotionally, psychologically, or physically attacked, I'm not- I don't know what you're expecting from this podcast, but none of the above. Great. I know. I'm also not someone that has any reputation to ruin, so we're literally fine. But not really.

I really like getting into and having challenging conversations and looking at my- I love looking at gray areas. Yeah. So everyone thinks very black and white in life, but there's always middle grounds that are really interesting to explore. So I'm- yeah, I'm not sensitive when it comes to topics. Yeah. If that makes sense. Okay. That's- Yeah. I'll just go wild. Uh-oh. I will. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. What do people usually say they're sensitive about?

They just go- they don't know, and then they go and chuckle awkwardly, and then they realize I ask a lot of very, very deep philosophical questions. I think it's like people have this expectation that you're not going to poke too deep, because people think that they're like, oh, now it's a podcast talking about myself. And I'm like, no, I'm literally going to ask you every question. Oh, like- all right, let's do it. I'm like, let's have fun- yep, no, let's just do it.

Now I'm nervous, but I wasn't before. I'm like, is there things that I don't want to talk about? I don't know. I mean, you can always edit them out and ask them. And it's just- we'll be fine. And your last name's just Pat Moore, isn't it? Yes. What a lovely name. Are you sure about that? Yes. Okay. Amy Patmore. Right. It's a great name. It is a good name, isn't it? It's very simple. It's humble. You always want like a great nickname, don't you? Like, I don't know, Amy Swift.

I've definitely, like when I was a kid, like Amy Swift, you know? Yeah. And you don't spell Amy like a normal human. You spell it the French way. You spell it the French way. Did you know the French? Amy Patmore. This is The Things We Do podcast, a podcast about film life, television culture, mental health and all of that fun jazzy stuff. Today I've got my special guest and friend, Amy Patmore. Hello. Hello.

So, first and most difficult question for you tonight is tell everyone on the internet, who you are and what you do. Oh my gosh. I feel like I'm in an audition right now. I know. Who am I? Who am I? Oh my goodness. So, my name is Amy Patmore. I am a actress slash director slash filmmaker. And then my hustle job on the side is I'm a singing coach, which is something I love. I love giving people an experience of creativity when I am striving for my own. So, I guess, is that a good introduction?

I think it's like the best pitch because it was so solid until you're like, I'm doing this and striving myself. Striving is a horrible word. I'm thriving and living my best life. There we go. It's more uplifted. It sounds like you're striving as you're just like trying to use everyone's boost to kind of boost you. You're so right. I don't want to be a desperate actor. That's the worst thing. I'm not a desperate actor. Okay, I'm not. I'm not. Yeah. Higher me now.

So, what came first out of all of this sort of crazy adventure? What did you kind of like lean into first when you were young, Amy? Oh, young Amy. Good old young Amy. I actually started acting very, very young. So, I actually started at the age of eight years old. Wow. And it's so funny that we're in the podcast today because I remember today I was driving in my car. Not my car, by the way. I'm throwing my mom's because my car broke down. I know. Very frustrating.

And I was in the car when I was a kid and I was like, I think I want to be an actor. And a lot of people would see me as kids and be like, oh, you know, to my mom, your daughter should be an actor. And she'd be like, I don't know, like, you know, complicated thing to put a child into. And they were probably like partly right about that because it wasn't probably the best time to start a career in acting. Because if anyone knows, it's a very intense psychological, mental field. Right?

We all know that. You've got to be very mentally strong. So, I went in at eight and I remember being like, what is the biggest thing that an actor can be? And my mom was like, an A-list actor. And I was like, I'm going to be an A-list actor. And I held onto the hope. I was like, I want to be an A-list actor. And I was like, who is an A-list actor? And, you know, Nicole Kidman, Hugh Jackman. I was like, okay, I'm going to be like them when I grow up. That's what I want to be.

And, you know, when you're eight and you're innocent, you like, you know, you look for big visuals, big ideas, big people. And so I was like, I'm going to be like that when I grow up. And then I secured a little extra role on the film Australia with Marcel Lohmann. I saw the man live and doing his thing. I was like, what do I say to finish that sentence? Just live and doing his thing. Alive. He's still alive. Yeah. He's still making movies. Still making movies.

Anyway, so I did that and it was like the most magical experience. You know, I was in the scene where there was a boat. I just remember being on this huge set in Fox Studios. I got to hold a dog because I was like a child being evacuated because Australia was being bombed and I got this little poodle to hold for like a week. And I know it was really cute. And if anyone knows me, I love dogs and I love animals. So it just like, I think really solidified the dream in me.

And then how it kind of continued on as I started kind of booking jobs, I did a little ABC series. Actually one of your guests, Holly Fraser, we did an episode together on that when we were younger. Oh, no, it's a little connection there. And you know, just started doing odd jobs. And then it got a bit more complicated when I became a teenager because you kind of have to reinvent yourself, right?

Yeah. And in the Australian industry, which is different to the American industry, let's just highlight that. It's very different. Yeah. Yeah. Like so many different. So different. Yeah. And so I had to kind of reinvent myself as a teenager. And I really struggled. I really struggled because, you know, I also, my mom got remarried to somebody else and I feel like they had different opinions on me being an actor or whatever and a child actor, because it does inconvenience a family.

You've got to get to an audition. You've got to skip school. You've got to do all these different things. Because I was mainly in the film industry, not theatre, right? So it kind of got a bit complicated. And I really feel like there was this gap between like 14 and honestly 18, where it's like all I knew was school theatre and it was depressing. And I was like this dream of being like Nicole Kidman was slowly just leaving, leaving the room. Yeah. And but then I remember I, this is so corny.

I was, I went to one of those like events where it was like, I don't know, you know, those, what do you call them? The universities, they do them and there's like stalls and you go and people give you pencils. Oh, orientation. Orientations and you like little orientations and you check out universities. But I knew in my heart, I wanted to do acting. And then I did, what's it called? I sat in on the grass at a university. I don't even remember what the university was.

And I wrote this like corny poem about taking the road less traveled, which I think has already been written, but it must have been in my subconscious from like, you know, whatever, English. And we wrote this poem that probably already been created about like, no, I'm actually going to take the road that I want to take. Yeah. And from that moment, it was decided I'm going to be an actor. And I upset my stepdad, but who cares?

And I upset him and I disappointed my family, but I decided to do acting. And so I started like auditioning for schools because I didn't want to do NIDA. I wanted to do something a bit different. And so I had this pipe dream to go to Lambda in London. Wow. I know. That's crazy. That's crazy girl. That's crazy girl. You're crazy. I know. But then I was at this acting class and my friend was talking about how the school could stellar Adler was doing auditions around.

So I auditioned for stellar Adler, got in and moved over to Los Angeles for a year and studied over there. And it was also crazy. It was also wild. I remember I got out of the car and I was like full of dreams. My eyes were like wide open and I just look at the side of the road and there's like human feces and I was like, it was an omen of LA completely. Just like human poop on the floor and like falling asleep to the sound of like sirens. Yeah, it really sells me LA. I've been there twice.

Congratulations. And both times were hell. Oh yeah. It's terrible. I don't know how it makes an industry, but it does. It does. But you know what? I also do have this very nostalgic love for LA. I'm actually going in like four weeks. So here I was like screw LA, but I'm like going to LA and like yeah. Anyway. You're the Cali girl. I am. I am a Cali Howard girl. I shouldn't do my American accent here because everyone's going to judge me for it. Don't worry.

They'll hear it well after you come back. It's true. I think for like a year after I was like, hi, my name's Amy Patmore. And everyone was like, are you American? No. Yeah. Yeah. Please don't. But yeah, so I went to LA and it was crazy because I had to pay for my own school fees. Wow. Okay. So that's like $22,000 American dollars there. $22,000 buckaroonies. Yeah. So I was homeless for a while. Yeah. I was like sleeping on people's couches. Yeah. And I really did it tough.

And I also lived in downtown LA, which was not safe. So I had to get very street smart at the age of 19. Yeah. So it was a bit wild. And anyway, ran out of money like most people do. And I came back home with my tail between my legs and hated LA because it broke my heart. I was like, oh, damn it. Yeah. And then I went through a bit of a dark patch after that as an actor. And any actor knows that you go through that. And I was like, I had this expectation that this is what acting was going to be.

And it is not that. And now I'm back in Australia. All the connections I made were overseas with my school. Nobody knows who I am. Yeah. How do I start from scratch? Again at the tender age of 20. And obviously when you're 20, you think I'm so old. I'm practically 90 years old, nearly at my death then as an actor, which is so stupid, by the way, if you are young out there. But anyway, so after that, I ended up having a period, honestly, of two years where I couldn't pick up a script.

Wow. I know. I know. I think just because I started so young, it was like it became a trigger. And I had to go to a lot of counseling and work on a lot of stuff. And it wasn't until I did this one year course, who I also did with Liz who's coming on the podcast, connections, the Australian industry is very small. It's very incestuous is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so I jumped back into this. I'm picking up a script. And then COVID happened. Oh, great.

Oh, the elephant in everyone's room. I know, right? Oh, terrible. And I was, and I didn't have an agent, which every actor is like, I don't have an agent. Or if they have an agent, they're like, I need a better agent, you know? Yeah, I know. It's, I love agencies, especially in Australia, which in particularly they, you know, if you ever are with agencies in Australia, they ignore your emails a lot of the time, unless you're a big name. It's so bizarre. It is.

They're the most, I have gotten the like biggest names by not going through the agencies and emailing people directly. Wow. Because agencies flag you. They just go, I don't blame them because they've got a PR team. Like, you know, obviously you're protecting your brand, but I think it's also for like up and coming people.

It's impossible because agencies kind of block you from actually achieving like if you're a journalist or you're like trying to start a name, unless you're with a big brand that's already very well-established, they don't care who you are. No, they do not. And they're like, mm. It's ruthless. Yeah. So it's ruthless. And I know a lot of personal friends who work for agencies and they've all said the same.

They've all like internally gone, yeah, it's ruthless, but it's kind of like they've got such a PR team that they're like, they even can't do anything about it. They're like, oh, okay, cool. We know how bad it is, but the actors are so nice and they love working a long time, you know, with the talent and everything, but it's everyone like in terms of who emails back and the, you know, the reception agency, everyone like they're just, they've got so much like do not answer these emails.

Yeah. And for a lot of actors out there, that's so depressing to hear, but it's true. And you know what, like, and you know, I'll kind of add this to a part of my story because I had a revelation of that and it changed things. Like a little bit later on down the track, cause I ended up long story short at this acting school that we were going to for a year, just to kind of keep in training, to get myself back on the script. I ended up kind of, I did end up getting an agent.

It was kind of like a lower grade agent, but I was like, I'm no longer going to depend on my agent. Yeah. So I'm just going to get into an agent and I'm going to let them make me go for roles or whatever, but I'm going to kill it when I go. Yeah. I'm going to kill it cause I'm ready to kill it. Right. I've done what, like I've, I've lived on people's couches. I've the redemptive speech. I've, I've eaten two minute noodles and like, I've, I've, I've done the shit. I know I'm back.

I am, and I am the shit. Take me. Um, but I ended up, um, I ended up getting an agent and I knew that they weren't going to do much for me. I knew they were going to be like, I'm like, you know, obviously I'm like, these are my goals and obviously they were like, yeah. And then I never heard from them. They literally did not give me an audition for six months. People six months. Isn't that the most common thing though, from agencies as well? Like I do not understand.

And this is like, uh, you know, if you're an up and coming actor and everything and you want an agency, unless you're with a big like, and you're an A, you know, it goes back to the A-lister. If you're not an A-lister. This podcast is about identity. Really is. It is, isn't it? Um, but it's, it, it goes back to that good old English class where it's all about belonging and the journey. The journey. Oh, good old journey. But it's so true.

And like, I'm actually really glad, cause as I fill out my story, it was really good advice to actors that are up and coming. Because first off, I hate, I hate to say it, but I have to break the fantasy of what an actor is. Um, because it's not Nicole Kidman, it's not Hugh Jackman and I'm sorry to break it to you. Um, it is, you may not have stability in your life. You may, um, anyway, but yeah, it's, it's crazy.

I think the biggest thing that I remember, especially like when, when I was very dedicated to acting and when it was something I wanted to do, my mom was like, Oh, um, you know, and she was worried, like she was obviously like, find a job that is stable rather than depending on something that is week by week or month by month. Like that is, that is the thing that surrounds acting and it surrounds any kind of like that kind of work.

Yeah. And what I do think that, you know, obviously not everyone's built for full time work and not everyone's built for a desk job. That is fine.

Um, you know, have something that, you know, fulfills you because it's so acting is such a passion is such a love and don't let kind of, I guess, I mean, I always say this to people, don't let the big movies like be the be all and end all appreciate every moment you get, because I feel like we're, you know, we're constantly looking up at the industry going, we need to be that. And you forget what's here in front of you making and progressing so far.

Cause I think that's also what's kind of frustrating about the Australian industry because we treat everything like this pinnacle, um, reaching golden point, like we've got to make it look schmick. We've got to make the films, you know, that look amazing, but then originality kind of goes out the door because you want to make something product, you know, like that will sell. Yeah. Like it's tricky.

It's, and no one, I feel like it's very interesting because, and I don't know if you agree with this, but when we're in the Australian industry, we are our own supporters, but networking outside of it and everyone, like even our international people who are Australian love our work, but anyone who is actually international, like Americans or British people that have never seen much in the way of Australian content and the originality that comes out of this country.

Yeah. I think, uh, I think we're, I mean, I'm hopeful. I mean, I just sat in with a lot of Sydney film festival and there's some really great stuff coming. But I think where I would challenge Australia is, um, don't be afraid to invest in the stories that aren't like, but that's a hard thing. I'm not a producer and producers, you know, they think differently to creatives. They are not creatives, they're business heads, you know, and they're, I don't know, it's hard.

It's, it's also like, um, you know, some of the, I feel like when you ever make a film or you make your first film or you start in your first film, you're going to make mistakes and it's okay to make mistakes. And I think that's what's the biggest journey that most people, you know, it's like what you were talking about with, you know, being, not having, you know, everything in LA happening and running out of money and having that disheartening feeling.

It's like, not everything's going to be just there. Like COVID, I really think taught me that, um, which, you know, beforehand everyone's like, Oh no, you know, the world is happening and you know, everyone's got to be this, you know, amazing director. Nowadays I think, I guess people are a bit more appreciative of what they can do and then smaller challenges that rather than making, you know, the impossible challenge to get like on a Hollywood film.

Yeah. Um, like, do you, do you feel like your perspective now has really changed in the last like even six months? You're like, maybe. Well, you know what? I mean, so we had COVID, which was where I did the course, right? And I was really discouraged. I got into that agency and I came to this point where I did realize, Oh my gosh, like, I can't even book a TVC. I've done all this training. I've been homeless and I can't even book a bloody TVC. And I was depressed.

I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is hopeless. And so I had to reevaluate because I was like, okay, well then back to the two road, corny power. I had to say, okay, there's two roads I can go on now. I can get very cynical about life. I can feel like a victim or I can restructure my values and what I value as a creative person.

And value is a really important thing that I've been going on a big journey of at the moment, which is like as a creative, you know, we think, Oh my goodness, the be all and end all is getting on this massive Hollywood film, but that might not satisfy you creatively. And so it's like, we're chasing all these things because society tells us this. And also society tells us, these are the people that are talented, that are amazing, that should be validated for their art.

But the truth is the people up there, cause this is the funny thing I discovered as an actor is sometimes the most talented people are not necessarily the people that get the role. But sometimes no offence out there, very shit actors get roles because honestly editors, now that I'm a filmmaker, editors are amazing and they can make a really bad performance look like a fricking Oscar winning performance.

So a lot of what we're being fed, and this is the same in the music industry is map, like especially when it's like high quality up there, like we're consuming such high quality stuff that has so much money in it. We sometimes aren't actually seeing the true artist at work. So here we are as artists being like, oh my goodness, I want to be in this Hollywood film. And I'm like, that might not be your most creatively fulfilling experience.

And so now I'm starting to look a little bit more down that pathway because if you are obsessed with this Hollywood idea, which by the way is not even realistic in Australia. And that's what I've learned as an actor is that for example, if you want to be an actor in Australia, you also have to be a filmmaker. I actually just think that's the bottom line. You could be a full-time actor, maybe you can't be a full-time actor in Australia. I just don't think there's enough work.

Maybe like 0.1% can, but I've even seen like people that I've seen like, you know, being nominated for massive awards in Australia, being in a commercial. Right? So the next week. So it's one of those things where in Australia, I think that we have to think we're in a small industry that needs to be providing like, and I guess that's what kind of pushed me to be a filmmaker is I realized here I am being like, why is nobody giving me a job?

But I actually said, well, what if it's because people need jobs in this industry? There isn't heaps of money that the government is giving to the arts. So therefore, these are not being funded. And so if I, with my own brain and my own hands can find a way to create something that gets people on board, gets people to care, then I'm not just an actor. I'm actually providing something very valuable that the industry actually needs, which is content.

So as an actor, I think you have to think a little bit more like that in Australia is and plus it's so much more creatively fulfilling to be a part of something bigger than just being an actor.

Like acting is fantastic, but like, especially in the realm of film, like there is something so satisfying about creating a project and creating something where you're not just told, oh, here's your mark, do this and that, but you are through the whole process and you understand what it takes that you're not the only one on set. There is a million people honestly, probably staying later than you are. And that's a big thing.

Yeah. I think it's kind of like, you know, and it kind of goes to that thing of like, you only hear about the actor's perspective. You don't hear about the everyone else's perspective and how many hours that everyone else does as well. Yep. And you know, you never hear about, you hear from the director, you might hear from the writer. That's about as far as the creative team.

You don't hear about like all the makeup artists who have spent hours, you know, doing prosthetics or anything like that, depending on the shoot. And then yeah, I hundred percent agree with you. I think it's also really like interesting because I trained as an editor as well. So I know entirely what you mean where actors can be saved in edits. And it frustrates me at length.

The kind of actors who think they, that when they're on sets and, and if you are one of these actors, learn from experience. But it's, you go to set and, and they give you a performance and they don't give you any variety of what you can do with each take and they give you the same performance. So therefore you were just cutting a bland performance around. You give like each take a different feeling. Correct. And you give a whole variety in your takes and it's amazing. And it frustrates me.

Like I'm a big, having done a lot of things because originally studying acting and then got into editing, producing, directing, doing the whole thing. And I think it's very frustrating when you get actors come on set who think that they don't need rehearsals, that they don't need to listen to the directors, that they don't know, like I've worked with so many types of people. But it's like, you, you kind of go, well, then you're working against everyone else.

And then I guess that comes to the point of like, you know, a challenge in, in yourself, because as a filmmaker and as someone who's only just turned 30, I don't know everything. I'm never going to know everything. I'm going to die not knowing everything. Like that's the, that's the rule of life. So if, if someone has something and they can suggest it to me on set or in any situation suggest it to me in post, I'm all ears.

But I don't, I dislike when actors think they know it all and then they just present something so bland. And then you go, okay, well, cool. I've worked with someone who's a bit shit and I'm working with it. Like, and, and I feel like some people, you know, it's not just actors, but you kind of get, you get it most because actors are so much in the forefront. They are. And they're very blind. Yes. And I'm not saying that as in like you are blind because of your ego and you don't know.

It's not that it's just the fact that when the first time I made a film, I learned more about being an actor than I did from no offense, any school. Honestly, I really did because I learned about the art of communication as an actor and what we're trying to provide for the audience and how important like it is actually, I can't even describe it. And it's still something I'm trying to grasp.

And I think probably like the next level I want to go to as an actor, right, is to have so much bird's eye view on everything that's going on to understand this is what we're trying to aim with the story and how can I bring that in as, as a actor?

I think it's just, I think actors think too much about acting and I know that's weird, but like, because we're into act, but like, you know, but actually there is a way of being a smart actor and a way of understanding your part to play and neglecting the ego. Because there's so much more going on.

And when you actually, that's why I encourage actors to create, because when you go through that process, like I said, the editor, the sound guy, everybody will teach you more about how to actually captivate your performance than you actually. Sometimes we'll know just from getting there and being like, I think this will look good. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's also because you know, the, cause you've directed it, you've already directed the film that you did. I have. How do you feel about it?

Okay. Look, this is the thing. I look the stress, the questions. I know. Like I have this, like anytime somebody asks me, how did it go? I was like, so many people came up to me because I acted and directed it just context, right? Which you know, is a feat Mount Everest people. You know what? I would do it again though. Yeah, I would. I would. This is the thing though. You did that solo. You did it directing.

Look, I had an amazing, so one of my partners in crime, and this is why I also like, by the way, my film is called Pinch, just so you know. So I'll probably, if I say Pinch, you know what that means. Yeah, I'm just not like so pinch and be like, oh, just, you know, there's a very strange word to throw in there. I know it's a strange word. But like I had an amazing producer and she was also our AD. And I'm so sorry about to put her last name and I've known she's like my best friend.

Am I a terrible friend? You tell me. Dvorak. Is it just Dvorak? Anna Dvorak. Anna Dvorak. Type that up. I'm also dyslexic. That's my excuse. You'll hear me say that at least 10 times a day. But anyway, yeah, directing and acting is a feat. And I had people on stage. It was quite an emotional piece and it was a drama. And so, and it was just so funny, like being on it. It was a massive set. We had like 30 people, right? Wow. So my first set experience was 30 people. How'd you wrangle 30 people?

I have no idea. People were desperate to work and so we just grabbed every person that just put their hand up and we're like, yes, we believe in you. Come do something for me. Come do something. I remember there was this one experience where we had a close set because I was in a bathtub, right? Wow, that would have been. I know. Just to make matters worse, I was also in a bathtub. Directing yourself in a bathtub. You're like, I'm doing this. This is the thing.

Like you have no one else to blame other than yourself for that scene. No, I do not. So explain this. Because I have so many questions. Were you wearing a swimsuit with that, Mark? I wasn't. I was in underwear, but that was a see-through anyways because underwear just goes see-through on the walls. I wasn't even prepared for that. But we had a close set and the only person I had there was my cinematographer and she was in there. Then there was this person in the corner and I was like, hi.

In the bathtub. Pretty much in my underwear. I was like, what are you doing here? As the director. She was like, I'm just going to watch. What? I was like, oh, it's a close set. And then they're like, this is my first time on set and I just want to learn. I was like, then maybe it would be a good idea to get out. Like holding every bit of my stress inside. I'm feeling invaded on as a human being to this insensitivity, but just having to be like, you're working with a group of people.

Everyone's going to have a certain level of emotional awareness in those set settings. She was learning, so that's okay. Then someone also came in and the BTS took a photo of me behind the scenes. I was like to Anna after, I'm like, take it down. Take it down because everyone can access the photos. Oh no. Should I be telling this story? I don't know. Probably not. I love it. You're giving me the juicy goss. I know. It's the juicy goss, guys. I mean, that is something.

You want to hear an even worse part of it? I cropped out the photo because I had a really great expression on my face. I kept it because I was like, that's a great. I'm thinking. I look like a director, but I'm also in a bathtub, so I cropped it. No one could see. No one could perv. I think it's the most horrifying. I'm impressed that you even attempted. It wasn't wise. I wouldn't do it again. It was a mistake. So you shouldn't be impressed. I think it's just the bulls-y attitude. Yeah, it was.

Because you're on set and you're just like, you know what's better than anything? I want a closed set with me in a bathtub directing. It was terrible. So you're halfway through editing, though. Yeah, so we're pretty much hopefully locking our editing picture and then we'll be going to sound this weekend. Oh my gosh. How long is it? It's eight minutes. I know, which is actually really good for short film festivals, apparently. So I'm excited about that.

Yes, they used to be a good old measly seven and then they extended it because people actually couldn't tell stories in seven minutes with credits. So now it's about eight to 10. But no, that's exciting. So it was a female DOP, which is very exciting. Was it a majority female crew? Yes, we did majority female crew. We wanted it to be majority female crew, but then we also kind of really extended that invitation for LGBTQ.

So we kind of really wanted it to be anyone that felt quite marginalized in the industry. Oh, that's great. It was because there's something that comes on a set when people feel like they're being heard and validated. And it was so interesting to listen to, especially like females, because a lot of our heads of department were females. And we did have a few amazing men on set as well, which is awesome, by the way. It's great to have men on set. I'm not saying men should not be on set.

No, we're not saying that at all. Not at all. Amazing men. But specifically just listening to some of the female stories, it's like, and even me as an actress, I've had some shock horrors, unfortunately. And it's just hearing the little things that make someone feel deflated, like they can't do their job properly. And some people say, oh, but it's not big things. But I'm like, sometimes it's the little things over a long period of time that wears on someone.

And so it was interesting listening to their stories, but giving them an environment where they felt validated and empowered and then getting such a great result out of their work. And seeing them feel fulfilled was honestly one of the best experiences of this film. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it was great. I mean, that's really like creating quite a diverse situation. I think it was like one of my good friends, he managed to have like 90% or like 95% of the crew were LGBT. Wow, that's crazy.

Yeah. How do you, because this is the interesting thing, right? How do you feel like it impacts a set having that perspective and that passion like underneath it? Well, look, it's kind of an interesting thing because I mean, as a member of it, it's very sort of like, yay, positive. But at the same time, it's a very like weird thing because it kind of just, I think it's the most progressive and forward thinking thing. But as the LGBTQIA plus community is, it also is very messy in its own way.

And it's got a lot of weird, I think the film industry in particular, all the queer people in the film industry are great. But there's kind of subsections like a little bit here and there. And I feel like, yeah, it's a very strange thing because I've had this conversation multiple tudes of times and I predominantly prefer working with women because it is just the thing I love to do. And most of my close friends growing up were women. So it's just easy to work with.

But I think that weeds people out because automatically, I mean, like automatically people assume that, you know, like, and I say this often, I don't identify as a guy. I never have never felt comfortable sort of seeing myself as a guy in society. And I do think that, you know, when people automatically assume that I have very male perspective views, they just like get the wrong end of the stick and they go, Oh, you hang around a lot of women. Oh, do you secretly perving on them?

And I'm like, no, I have no interest and have a very loving partner. But like, that's a thing that's happened throughout my entire life, even before I was dating. And it's sort of, I think it's because it's common for people who, you know, even are like, you know, present male in society and everything. Don't have a lot of female friends. I think it's very much you date women, you don't become friends with women. And that is a hmm, that is a taboo. And so I know, how dare you become friends.

So that's like, I think really eye opening about like, especially now, because we're going into the society now and this structure now where there is a lot more diversity. I mean, like, as you know, and I was talking about this with our mutual friend Aravind, like there were so many kind of situations where you see like, people take advantage and you just kind of go, okay, cool, let's shut that down.

Yeah. And I'll prove it, like I remember years ago, once I was asked to do like a short film by a wonderful friend of mine who I still intend to make, Samuel J. Bellwood, and he is amazing. And he asked me to do this film, which had a romantic love scene in it. And I remember having many logistic conversations and going, okay, well, cool.

There needs to be like, I chatted to my friend who's a producer, Grace Rain, and we had a big chat about it and just kind of working out the logistics of how it would work and how I'd get everything. And I was like, you know what? Cool. I'm going to have to just lay everything out of what's going to happen in this scene. And I did. And like, we didn't end up filming it for just like, it wasn't the right time. And Sam decided to just not do it for the time being. We moved on to do something else.

But I remember the stress at the time was just making sure everyone was happy and feeling comfortable. And that was very prominent, especially from the female perspective. And my good friend, Emily David, who decided was up for the role at the time. And yeah, she was just like, this is how I feel. This is where I feel comfortable. And it was like, cool. Okay, let's try and do that and make sure everything feels comfortable for you. Because it was like very much a focus of mine.

And I'm a big believer in a closet and safety and environment, especially like, you know, having to do with like, I think just making someone feel safe in an environment is key. And same people negate that and just ignore that. Yeah. Well, can I tell you the one thing that upsets me a little bit as a woman is that it's almost expected that like, I know there's always this pressure to do like explicit content, right?

And as a woman, you have to kind of like, think about that's going out to the world, right? And anyone can take advantage of that material. So it's a very vulnerable thing to do and not always sets. I've heard like some pretty bad stories about women that, you know, like they would just take way too long shooting these scenes. And it's like all these things that make those experiences when you're already being extremely vulnerable, unsafe.

And I feel like there's almost this expectation that actresses and you know what actors as well should be very, very open with their bodies and vulnerable and really free to show everyone. I think that you do have to have balls in this industry, right? You do have to have, I mean, you've got to have a bit of guts because we're telling stories and then it's been understanding of that.

But coming back to like that thing of identity, like not doing anything that actually goes against your values where you're like, oh, I actually do feel like, you know, values also in the sense of like if an environment feels unsafe, right? And if there isn't unsafety in that, that like somebody is pressuring you to do something and not taking your needs into consideration.

We need to start really prioritizing safety on set, especially with like intimacy scenes where I know like intimacy coaches, like that's a really, you know, that's becoming way more of a bigger thing. And a lot more available, I think to the indie crowd, right? Because it probably wasn't as available. I'm not sure if it would. Like it would be, yeah, because you have, that's the hard thing as well. When you're trying to make it as an actor, there's so many blurred lines.

There's so many blurred lines and you have to kind of protect yourself. It's not necessarily somebody looking at detail and contracts and lawyers and so safety is a massive thing. Yeah. I mean, like I've definitely had different varying end of actors, especially when it comes to intimacy in any kind of capacity, like whether it's just like even kissing someone. Yeah, it's like you have that conversation and some people are like, yeah, no, that's fine. I don't mind.

And then other people are like, oh no, I just want to make sure there's a chat beforehand to make sure everything's kind of like clear and concise and you, you respect everyone's values because, and it's the same with like in terms of photography because like, I think it's one of those things where you have a conversation of what, what are you trying to get out of this situation? If you do photos of anyone, you've got to go, okay, cool. What are we getting?

Cool. Can I, you know, is it going to be a closed situation where if I'm going to do anything like, you know, in terms of, you know, revealing, then I want it to be in a closed environment. It's like, cool, done, easy, but you need to respect that. It frustrates me when people go, oh, I don't have to respect anyone's rights or, you know, like, I'm like, no, you do. Like everyone feels safe.

Like I would, I think it's frustrating as well because, you know, like as, as I know a couple of kid actors and it does worry me this, the more they grow up and the faster that they get to 18, then start and the industry will start sexualizing them. And it's just like, and that comes so quickly for women. And it's just like terrifying because suddenly when you're 18, everyone's like, oh man, I can sexualize you for whatever purpose. And it's like, why? Yeah. Like what's, what's the point?

Did that happen to you? Like, did you hit an age where people were trying to like suddenly sexualize you? I've actually been really lucky in the sense that like, I feel like I went through my like little wilderness season. The wilderness. But you know what, like I would always get roles when I was quite young that would already say like, oh look, you know, you'd have to do nudity for this. And I just remember as like a young person being like, Ooh, I don't feel comfortable with that. You know?

As a young person that like, you know, that sort of made you go, huh. They were actually like big professional like films or whatever. But the thing is when you're young, um, and you know what, they were a couple like big old bigger auditions. I did say no to you when I was younger because it was like nudity or like a sex scene.

And I was just like, my mom might've not let me do it to be honest, but also I was like, as an, as I could tell when I was 16 or 14 or whenever it was, I can't remember it was between that age. Just young when you think about it. Very young to be doing that on camera. Um, I just felt uncomfortable and I felt like, Ooh, like I don't think I would feel safe even if there was somebody talking me through that.

And that also comes to just life experiences where you're at, at that time, like, cause I think as an actor, yes, you want to be able to be like, I can play anything. That's another question of the whole, like, you know, I guess, um, conversation in our industry. Um, but like you do have to kind of figure out like, when am I ready to play this as well? When is my, and that's goes also in the mental health realm of things.

Like are you playing a role that's actually going to bring things up that are going to destroy you as a human? Because you're, you haven't, you know, you've got to go through healing as an actor as well to be a healthy actor. Um, to use, if you do use your internal material to, you know, do that safely is really important.

Yeah. I mean, like I find it frustrating, um, frustrating when people, you know, like, and I, and I feel like it comes down to the responsibility of the performer and the director. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just laughing because in my experience in the bathtub, I was both of them. Anyway. I mean, in your situation, fuck that.

But I mean, like, you know, you obviously communicate that clearly and you're going to put trust in both your actor and, and, and the actor needs to put trust in the director and that needs to be clearly communicated that nothing crosses those boundaries that of respect. And it doesn't matter if you, you two are close friends outside of work. It is a different relationship on set.

And I have had plenty of times where I've sat down with people and I say, don't treat me like I'm your friend and saying yes to. Tell me as a director, how you feel, because that is much more helpful than just going, oh, you're my friend and I want to help out. It's like, that's kind of intuitive and not really great. Yeah. We're here to collaborate. We're here to create. Yeah. So it's, it's, I feel like that is the biggest kind of deal for me.

And it's amazing, like how that can make a break, you know, a story and, and, and a friendship because you're not clearly, you know, one of you isn't being honest about a situation and therefore it's like, oh, okay. Yeah. All this didn't really feel right. You know, something was off. Um, yeah. So it is interesting. I mean, like I'm not like most people, I'm not dying to direct a sex scene or anyone nude in a bath, but clearly Amy is just, um, let's not put that on record next minute.

Um, no, but what I will say about that whole experience. Sorry. I just, I needed to clap myself on the back for that. Oh my gosh. But myself as well. This is very confusing, very confusing situation. Um, but, and actually to give you guys context of what the bath scene was about, like we actually don't show any like nudity on the film or anything.

Um, but it's just her having a moment in the bath where she's thinking, obviously she sees she's in a really quite a dark head space and we're leading to like a very climactic moment. It was a seller moment, a pause moment in the piece. But um, you know, it was, it was a private moment for our character.

Um, but obviously it required me to be slightly naked, um, but well covered, but I wanted the close set because we need to, even if like, I think that I just think that it needs to be normalized as something that just like, if someone as a professional, right, you wouldn't be at a desk job and like, where something that didn't need to, I think that absolutely is necessary, sure in a scene, but I think like it is really great to encourage, um,

like what is the actor comfortable with having those conversations and that just being like what you do, it's not something like, um, it might happen, it might not, but always have conversations with actor and director about anything like that. I just remember years ago watching behind the scenes of a horror film online and they literally had a shower scene and all you saw of her was like here and they showed afterwards that she was wearing a bathing suit all the way down.

It was just really smartly done. It was like, clearly she had had it taped to about here so that you didn't see anything below the chest. Yes. And I was like, that is clever because it's how you get around, you know, like having a situation where you as a filmmaker kind of going, I don't want to put this person in a, you know, a situation when they don't feel like they're comfortable. So you just make every situation. Um, like I'm going to go a great story, which was very naive and young of me.

I was, um, I had just graduated high school. I was, um, making my first ever short film ever. So that's always a, you know, like, and, and because I didn't know anything, I knew jack shit, nothing. I had a handy cam with a microphone tape to the side. So clearly what tape did you use? Just good old duct tape. Great. It's really simple, but I remember my, um, friend at the time, uh, I asked two of my friends, one of them was kind of like a wannabe actor.

Um, and I think she decided not to do it in the end. And, um, they were both in my film and it was meant to be this sort of scene where one of the characters awakens, um, next to the guy in bed. And like, it was a very hot day. I will express, this was like a 30 plus degree day in this non air conditioned room. And it was just the three of us, like me, the two actors and me, and they were like, they stripped down to their underwear and I was like, okay, cool.

Sure. I'm standing there with a camera. And I just remember, like I had, I did about 12 to like 20 takes because I was trying to do this fantastic shot to focus on a little letter and the camera, sorry, the microphone kept falling off of it. It was like duct tape. Like, it was like some bullshit like that, but yeah, it was like, did all this fancy shots. I remember once it's the poor thing.

My friend, she turned over and like she was wearing a bra because obviously she didn't feel comfortable not when I was like, I don't blame you, you know, do whatever you feel comfortable. Um, but I felt so sorry for her because like she was rolling over and then almost her, um, boob fell out and I was like, I was like, Oh no, I feel so bad. But I was just like, we ever, um, it was me and my other friend and we just both went, no, it's fine.

I, you know, helped her out and covered her up and make sure she felt okay. But we were both at the same time going, shit, rather than, you know, but we were both like 1920 and that was kind of weird for 19, 20 year olds to be like, you just don't have that foresight. No, no, you just don't know. And I mean like I was ballsy to do that. Um, you know, but I learned, I learned, I learned never to do that. Yeah. Never to do that again.

No. And I think actually, this is a really good message to any actresses and actors out there or you know, any actors, just honestly, you are allowed to, if you feel uncomfortable with something, you're allowed to say, I don't want to do this or I don't want to do this in this way. Can we work around it and communicate? Communication is honestly the key to life. It's the key to being a good actor is communicate.

I think as well, actors are so afraid to say something, you're not a puppet, you're actually a collaborator. So part of being a collaborator is bringing your needs to the table and being able to negotiate and say, okay, so you have this need as a director to shoot this. This is my need as an actor of safety. How can we work together to fulfill both of our needs?

And I think, you know, always coming in with that thing of a bit of self, self respect in the sense like if I feel uncomfortable with this situation, I'm allowed to say so. Yeah. Yeah. And also it's going to stop you from feeling creative. It's going to stop you from doing your best work, which we're all aiming to do in the end. I mean, look, I hope so.

And I hope if you're really striving to be a performer or filmmaker, you're always trying to do the best work because, you know, it always, I think, and everything's a learning curve. And I think, you know, my first ever film I ever attempted was, you know, my HSC drama. And if you want to go and check that out, it's on YouTube. Is that the one with the two people in the bed? No. That is available. And it wasn't ever finished. That one's called Not Enough Time. It was meant to be. How ironic.

I know. Look, I will show you this scene afterwards and have a laugh. Really? I'm excited. It's very good. Not really. It's terrible. But I mean, like it's clearly like 2011. God, shit, damn, like 11 years ago. Do you have any like 2011 like film styles? Like you know the jagged like camera angles? Like, distorted. No, not even. Not even like it was, we've, the sad thing was we filmed a majority of it and then one of our actors pulled out.

And just, I think because they were hoping it was bigger than it actually was, which I don't blame them because I knew jack shit nothing. But I mean, the attempt was there. And I, yeah, it was one of those situations where we filmed it and then it never got finished. And then it just, I was like after a few years, here it is on the internet. People can just review what has been filmed and see what you think. I love that. It was originally like a 25 minute script.

Like, and we filmed it over the course of months. Like it was every few day we had a weekend free, we'd film a bit. I've seen like those on Star now. It's like, we'll be filming over three months every weekend. Oh, can I just say it was before Star Now. I networked through a party. One of my good friends, I networked through a party and he was like, I know a bunch of actors. I'm cool. Let's hook up. And we did.

I love that though, because so many people that I'm collaborating with was just through that. And the feedback I've gotten about doing film, not necessarily of people seeing it because nobody has seen it yet. But the feedback I've gotten from people's response to me doing this is like, wow, I always say I'm going to do those things and I never do them. And I'm like, wow, why did I do it? Because I remember I just literally picked up my pen and I just started.

I just started and I just didn't finish. I just kept going and I'm still keep, I'm just going. And it's kind of like when I look back and I see, and I remember it got scarier and scarier because it was like, oh wow, like it's growing and people are getting on board. And I didn't expect it to have an end up having like 30 people on set that day. I think it's overwhelming as a director as well, because I've never directed before. I've never directed before.

And then all of a sudden people are asking me these questions. And I was just like that whole day, it was just questions, questions, questions. And there's so many scenes I had to cry as an actor and people were like, wow, that was so moving. How did you do that? And I'm like, stress, stress led me to weep. I was just, I've never been that emotionally, physically, psychologically challenged in my life. And it just is when you're a director and you're starting, you just have to do it.

And it's not about like a lot of people say, oh, I've got to do this first and I've got to do that first. And I'm like, a lot about being a filmmaker is about just going for it. And yes, you want foresight. And the thing is, obviously from that experience is a lot that I would do better. And I think every experience as a filmmaker you learn from it. And no film is ever perfect. But I learned so much more faster from doing than I probably would have overly preparing.

I just think that the film industry is very, it's very action based. You know, like you've got to be in it, you've got to experience it. But yeah, I don't know if that was your experience being, you know, making a film for your first time. Absolutely. And I feel like every film I've ever directed and or every scene I've ever directed, I will go with scene probably because you always learn day by day. But every time you try something, you learn a different way and you learn how to be better.

And I mean, like, I was in that situation until, you know, the pandemic hit the wonderful pandemic, but I was in the process of producing and directing my first ever horror film. And we got so big with crew and cast and everything. And it just, I like, it was just kind of got to a stage where I was like, my brain could not handle the stress. And look, it's still a project I'm very proud of. It's still sits in a drawer.

It's still like is fermenting away in the back of my head and it will be finished one day. So, you know, tune in for that. But can I just put a little flag on a word you just said? Yeah. And I've been talking to my partner about this a lot. Is it fermenting? We've been talking about fermenting a lot. Who knows what that means? What is that? But we've been talking about, what is it? Now I forgot what the flagged word was. No, I remember it now. Being proud.

Yes. Because I'll usually get to the end of the, and here's the thing, by the way, to end my story as an actor, right? Yes. I've never finished that story, by the way. Maybe we both have ADHD. We'll just jump it all over the shop. Anyway. Look, that could be a possibility. I'm actually looking into it at the moment. Don't worry. I already know I have it. So, you know, if Amy has it, this explains a lot of this conversation. Oh, wow. You're getting thrown in so many wonderful ideas. I know.

But what was I talking about? About your wonderful epiphany. My epiphany. About being proud. Yes. Proud, proud, proud, proud. Yeah. So, I think it's back to this thing of like, if you want to have longevity in this industry, it's a lot less about who you become as like success wise. Because I think performers focus and creatives focus a lot on success. And my partner challenged me on that on the other day. English is a hard language. And that's our first.

That was just some great ASMR for the ears, everyone. No, but we were talking about being proud of my work. Because my story as an actor actually continued on. So I literally could not get any acting gig for like, I wasn't auditioning for like six months with this agency and just like woe is me to the world. And I had this day where I was teaching, because I'm also a singing coach. That's what I do as my side job and you know, how I survive.

And what I had this lady come in with this crazy, crazy kid that was just like running all over the shop and he had this cute little American accent and he came in. And I remember this day I'd worked with a really annoying director who had pretty much just told all of us like, I hate my work. And we'd all like just poured our hearts out as an actor, as actors. And he treated us all quite badly. And it was just not a great experience. And I remember that day just feeling really discouraged.

Like even the work that I do is not going to be seen and just feeling like, you know, like it was hopeless as an actor. I'm like, really this is a hopeless situation. And I remember I had this new kid come into my class and the last thing I wanted was to go and talk to a parent to get this kid in and make this kid's day by giving him the best class ever.

But I said, you know, I'm just going to anytime something bad happens or you're having a bad day, do something nice for someone, step out of that head space and actually show kindness. And so I went out and I started talking to her and I said, Oh, where are you from? You know, your kids got an American accent. She's like, Oh, well for COVID I'm, I'm actually, I'm an American, but I'm over here for just, you know, for work because I can work in Australia. I'm originally from Australia.

I was like, Oh, that's great. I lived in LA for a bit. She's like, Oh, really? What did you do music? And I said, no, no, no, I'm actually an actor. I'm, you know, and then yeah, yeah. You know, as an actor, like you're kind of embarrassed. She was like, Oh yeah, I'm an actor. And then she's like, Oh really? I'm a manager. Ooh. And I was like, a manager? What is a manager? I haven't heard of such things in Australia.

And she was like, I, yeah, no, cause a manager is different to an agent just saying, you know, so an agent will have many actors in their books. A manager will have specific people. Like they'll only have one person in their books that looks like you and they just specifically fight for your career with your particular look and what you would be suited for. So their books are small and it's very specifically like, it's a very personal relationship.

You'll probably have a manager your whole life, agents, you might go through quite a few. We'll just say that. Why everyone's like, I need a new agent because you go through quite a few. It's like therapists. It is. Isn't it? Yeah. You guys are. Yeah. Quite a few. Thinking about my fourth right now. Am I? But, and she ended up over a long period of time auditioning and sending her tapes. We ended up, I ended up becoming one of her clients and she changed the game for me.

And now I'm honestly getting, so I went from, and I'm not saying this to brag, but it is good for actors out there that are struggling to know tables can turn and can actually start, you know, doing quite well. Now I'm getting up to about on a good month, 10 auditions a month. That's great. It's very good for an actor in Australia.

A lot of that's TVCs because a lot of our income as actors come through as TVCs, but some of them are, you know, some now agencies are starting to, you know, recognize me and giving me like, you know, big, bigger parts, Stan series, that kind of thing, starting to recognize, you know, what I'm doing and, but getting caught in consistently, especially for commercials. I've now booked, I'm up to my fifth commercial in, I think it's five or six months. I've booked five, five commercials.

So I'm only saying that not to brag, but I'm saying that not to brag, but, but to say to people out there that are actors, things do happen when you wait around. And, but I can still look at that and not be proud of myself and be like, but I'm not like, I'm not Nicole Kidman. I'm not Hugh Jackman. And I'm like, well, you're not. And that's actually okay.

And I think that it's about being proud of the little things, being proud of the project that is in your draw, that you work, but represents who you are as a creative person. Being proud of these things that we're doing and learning as artists, how to empower ourselves in an industry that isn't going to fight to give you opportunities. You have to go out there and be proactive. And it comes back to this thing of relationships as well.

Seeing people in the industry having conversations like this that are satisfied, that are not full of ego, that full of humility and mistakes and full of us learning. And that, you know, the most incredible creatives I've ever met have not been Nicole Kidman's and the Hugh Jackman's.

No, they've been the people that I see getting rejected a million times and maybe didn't have luck, but keep on getting up again and exploring their voices, creatives and fighting that feeling that they had when they originally decided I want to be an actor, I want to be a director or producer. And at the end of the day, it's about the stories we're telling and if we can focus on that and the power.

Film is an incredible medium of influencing people's mindsets through the power of empathy and compassion. And if we can start to think in that way as creatives, you know, I think that we start to get a lot more proud of what we're creating and who we are as people, which comes back to identity. Write that on a magnet. Just on a magnet. On a fridge magnet. You can stick it on your fridge. Please do. And then come back to us and give us the magnet because we need it. To look at every day.

I mean, it's so true as well because I think how my career started was I wanted to be an actor, then the only way you could be an actor was to be in films. So then make my own films to be in them. But then I got interested in editing and I was like, oh cool, I need more editing projects. And then so I went to do uni and then after that I didn't get any projects so I decided to make my own films to edit. And therefore it's the cycle of no one was really going to fight for you.

And I've met and I sort of say this all the time, but I think that networking as much as people hate it and as much as like people go, oh my god, you know, networking, why would you network? But I have met some of the most wonderful people out there who will help me at a heartbeat or just, you know, like, and if they're available and they can do it for a day, then they will help out.

And it's, you kind of, everything in this industry is made out of love and connection and helping people because it's not a very profitable industry. It's the amount of times that I've been out of pocket or anything. And it's just like, I'm happy to help people who are eager to learn, who don't have egos, who are just really wanting to give it a good hard go and know that every experience is a learning experience.

And then it's easier because, you know, then it makes you excited for things because then it makes you excited for people's ideas and people's projects. And the amount of projects I've heard that, you know, have done well, you know, like, and I'm talking successfully well, sometimes are the ones that suck your soul up and everyone's had a miserable time on set.

And then there's some of the projects that you end up loving, the ones that don't, you know, sometimes people see in a film festival and they go, that was really good. You know, it really depends. I don't know where that story was going quite as it does about lifting. But I mean, like, it's true because I think you've got to always be proud of everything you do. And there are so many projects that I am proud of that I've done.

And they might not be even seen by that many people, but I am fine with that because I'm proud of every single one attempt that I've done on them. And you know what, there's a lot of people in Hollywood films or doing Hollywood films that would look at their films and not feel proud of them. 100%. You know, like, wow, that is true, actually. And you know, it's funny because I think it's the humility that we have as creatives because you've got to have humility.

You've got to really go, well, that's, you know, what I love and what I want to do. And it comes back to me of something like one of my favorite actors, John Hurt said, as creatives, he said, we don't, you know, they don't call it a play because, you know, you're performing, you're playing, you're in a playground, you're playing those characters, you're having fun. I hate the term work. And he said that he said that so firmly. And I was like, I agree with that. You don't.

If someone says to me, oh, this is work, I'm like, no, don't think about what you're doing as work because then it becomes serious and demanding and of your time, say it's fun because then you change your mindset and your brain and the way you think about something and you get more enjoyment out of it. Because the downside of the industry is a lot of people become cynics and depressed and you know, like mental health issues as a massive industry.

I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of one of those things that I think, you know, isn't broadly talked, well, it is more broadly talked about now, but it wasn't back in the day where it was like, yeah, you'd get mentally depressed or, you know, you'd need to have off periods. Like, um, I think I've had my fair share of those. Um, but you know, like I was like, you were, you know, I just, I just gave up for a while and I did my mundane job and I was like, cool, that's my life.

That is, that is what I'm going to do. And that is it. And then now I'm more like, Oh, what kind of pies can I get my fingers into and what can I sort of stir up and make? But it's, it's down to, it's, it is down to just like getting out of that mindset and going and thriving in the environment because there's so many times where I've met people and I go, here's an idea. And they go nap. Um, you know, and it's not, you know, because they're like, Oh no, it needs to be like cinematic.

And I'm like, no, why would you dispute an idea when it's like, you know, this is the idea and it needs to be a small story and, you know, and they want to make everything sort of like, I've worked with so many creatives who have different opinions and they go, Oh, it needs to be global. It needs to be like this big bag boom, you know, and I'm just like, embrace the small ideas, like embrace, not everything's going to be Ben her and not everything's going to be the next Steven Spielberg.

Yep. Like just enjoy the little things. I agree. I mean, I think what we're really highlighting is this culture. It's a cultural issue. It does a culture issue, but it is, it is this thing of that. Um, I don't know, like I've been thinking a lot about values recently and what I value and how, what you value internally is going to either lead you to a path of life or death, right?

Which sounds really like intense, but death, I mean, by like a mindset that's not going to lead you to a happy life, a life where you feel fulfilled, a life where you feel like I'm authentically myself even, and a life that's actually full of happiness and joy, a life that you'll look back on and be proud of.

And I think where we get caught up is we tend to think that famous people or the people that are making it big, other people that are valuable in society that have influence that we need to be looking up to, that we need to be like all these different things when it's actually not necessarily, I think, um, I mean, first off, I feel like the whole celebrity thing, right? It's like Instagram, we're not getting people's full stories.

So we're looking up to these people that I think we can admire them as creatives, but we are also getting, I think, like a certain level of a mass produced, created, like, you know, those Thor movies, for example, it's like so many incredible visual effects. Um, but you know, um, even though, you know, I have friends that worked on that film, so I'm not dissing that. I love that. I'm like, I'm not dissing it. I swear. I swear. Um, I mean, I agree with that as well.

And I think that, you know, um, yeah, I mean, like those films, those films are cookie cutter as well. Like that is the, you know, whether you worked on them or not, like they are made to make money and, and they're not made to be reviewed by critics high of going, they're not. They're comic book films and they're fun. And if you think heavily on the philosophical nature of a comic book film, you need to think more about the universe and the plants itself.

Cause they're fun to nerd out on, but that's as far as it goes. I do not sit there hours upon end thinking, oh, who should have died in this movie and who didn't die? Like I, you know, I've, it's, it's the same thing of like, you know, whenever I watch anything and I just go like, cool, that was good. That was, you know, because that's how content's meant to be watched.

But I think we get into this, you know, cultural thing where like as audience, we're like, it has to be made for us and it has to be dictated a hundred percent. And if it's not this caliber, then I shall destroy it. Um, and we tend to then overlook and glamorize this, um, level of our own products, which is if something doesn't look, as you say, like the Hollywood films, then we're not as satisfied with the outcome. And we go, well, that was shit. And I think that that's, that's what I dislike.

And I mean, like it's, there is a thing where I wouldn't ever want to be famous. I would never ever want to be that level of famous. Like, you know, where my name is in articles and people read about my, like going out and having coffee and being like, why is that fucking important? Like, why is that necessary? Because you know, like they do that all the time where it's like people have divorces and stuff.

And then suddenly there's a whole article about, oh, look, these people had a divorce and look, they're getting remarried. It's like, why is that an issue? Like that should be someone, whereas you, they, you know, you and I, at the moment, no one's going to read an article. Nope. No one's going to read an article on me. They're going to be, not right now, at least. No, not, not now, at least. And you're right. I think that kind of level of attention would be, it would create issues.

It would create relationship issues. It would create, if you didn't have really good people around you, you know, you'd be very lonely. Yeah. And so I think like, and I like to encourage, if there is a young creative out there listening to this, that's just starting their career. Cause what, it's like the, the moldable time. I know.

It's such a, I know, because you know, you don't want to feed people when they're getting into the industry, all these things about like, he's going to be famous, it's going to be amazing. You're going to be a star, you're going to be a star, Stella. No, it's got to be. Stella! Why is it always Stella? I don't know. Um, but I do think like, I really like, like young people who want to be actors always ask me, should I be an actor? And I'm like, if there is, cause it is very hard.

I'm like, if there is, if you're doing it for fame and there is nothing else, you, like I just, I think that it's a damaging, people say that and it sounds really cliche. Oh, well, if you're doing it for fame, don't do it. But it's not actually that attitude. It's actually like, if you're doing it for fame, you will be disappointed. Because most people that are famous, it's not because they're good or they've done anything. So there's no formula to it, right?

It's not like, oh, if you work really hard, this is going to happen. Even though I know celebrities say that, right? I worked really hard. A lot of people work really, really hard and that's not the end narrative for them. And that sounds really depressing, but it doesn't need to be because really the way to be a creative that I think influences the industry in a positive way is to think about like, especially for actors.

Cause I think sometimes it's hard to know what your voice is when you're always telling other people's voices. It's why filmmaking get into filmmaking because you will start to explore what is it in society that pulls my heartstrings? What is it in society like that? I want to influence the way that people think about certain things. For me, big thing for me is mental health. I want to influence how people think about mental health.

And when I realized that and how important that is to me, I started to find my voice as a director and I started to branch out into this new creative field and I learn a whole new art of communication. And I just really encourage young people to like, we're also not an American industry. I know I said that before, but Australia's industry is a different industry. If you go to Canada, if you go to UK, they're all different industries and you have to operate in them differently.

So know the industry you're in and what that means. It means you're probably going to need to create film. You're probably going to need to be, and like you said, people aren't going to believe in you. I know that sounds horrible, but people are not going to believe in you. Even if you were the most talented thing that anybody's ever seen, people may still not believe in you because it is actually about networking.

And I don't know why actors get freaked or film people get freaked out about networking because all it is is making friends. Making friends like I'm not going to network with people I don't get along with. Even if they're really important, I'm like, oh, well, I'll keep face, but I'm not going to spend heaps of time investing because we don't get along. We're not going to collaborate and create well anyways.

Yeah. I mean, like this is, this is like, I'm just counting down the minutes until this conversation's over. Oh really? Oh really? Is it about to? No, it's not. Oh gosh. I'm like, oh, you're being serious. I'm like, have I talked too much? People tell me that all the time. No, you didn't. But I mean, like that's so true.

I think, I think it's also this industry talks and it's very clear that we talk because it's, it's one of those things that I've been on set and I've worked with people who have like, you know, I haven't thought were, you know, honestly that great. And I've said that to other people. And then that means that, you know, and I haven't been like, oh, that person was shit. You know, you do it in a respectful way. You don't, you just go, I didn't gel with this person.

You might, I think they've got talent, but I didn't gel with them. Yeah. And, or if they're a horrible person, then you just go, don't work ever with this person. Yes. If they're toxic. If they're toxic, then don't. Um, but I've generally said that, and there are some people in this industry that I would never work with again, that I'm like, cool, I will just avoid their projects. Um, but you know, if there was no one I've, I've set out and gone, I hate this person. Yes. Malicious.

And there's only the one or two. Um, but that's a story for another time. Um, but I mean, like it's, it's a very talkative industry and I think you just got to kind of walk this, um, line of professional and respectful and humility. Yeah. It goes back to humility, but I think a lot of young artists and a lot of, and a lot of people in general, and it comes out of, you know, like things like cancer culture and everything. We just jumped the gun.

Yep. We jumped the gun before we have any evidence or rationalization. And then suddenly a situation that could be very easily handled suddenly becomes an impossible situation that no one can handle. And then everyone has to choose sides. And that's the dumbest thing because I've been on sets where I'm like, I don't have to choose sides. If we talk about this, then let's sort it. Yeah. Like we're all mature adults. Yeah. And we're like, why don't we sort it?

Yeah. But there's no, there was so many people, I think it's the creative brain where you just don't want to mediate a situation. You just want it gone. Yeah. And I find that like frustrating. Yeah. And I just like, it goes back to the, those situations of like having safe sets and everything. Like if you can't talk, then that's not a safe set. That is, but yes, you know, that's, that's the real one. That is really good.

And you know, I think it comes predominantly on, you know, the fact that sets were male dominated until not like long ago they were. And it was a good old jolly time. But no, and I think a lot of, you know, a lot of women have had to step their way up and fight for it. And that, but in, in doing so, the cancel culture and has snuck its ugly head and created bad situations coming out of it, which, you know, then becomes people manipulating situations and fabricating stories.

And whether or not those stories are true and multiple accounts, but they also could be, you could ask five people and five, you know, there was a funny story. I remember one of my friends said, which was like literally everyone knew me. I asked, I asked them how many people probably dislike me. And she was probably like, only about five, I think five or six. And it was because, you know, people know you, but they don't really know you.

If you have a bad day and then you're a bit grumpy on set and someone goes, God, that was shit to work with. When you ask how they were like, why were they grumpy? You know, it's called checking. I don't know. It's called checking in. It's called having a bit of humility yourself as a person as well. And, and checking in because we all have a brain. We do. We all aren't just monsters underneath. Yeah. Sorry. No, no. You're going to say you go inside.

Well, I was going to say that I have noticed on set, especially the bigger ones. There is a lot of gossip culture as well. Yes. And that's where I think things get toxic or people can get ostracized or there can be this bullying on set. Yeah. And that's what we don't want. You know, I think nobody wants that. It's not high school, right? And or isn't it? But, you know, that also is just the culture that you set.

Like, you know, I mean, the funny thing about being a director is it really made me have looked back at other situations where people had directed me and I actually was able to recognize all that was wrong. Yeah. Because I, the way I handled it, I was under immense stress and I did not yell at one person or I did not get angry at one person or speak harshly. I was very direct because you have to be as a director.

And there were certain times where people would, were not aware of what they needed to be doing. And it made my job harder, harder than it already was. You know, but I learned that like, you know, you respect, like you respect the people that are working for you. And it's the same with, I think this is all about creating healthy set culture, I believe, what we're talking about.

Yeah. And it is that thing of like there is gossiping and there is these things, but that all comes back to communication. And like communicating to people if there is a weird or off feeling like, Hey, is there something weird going on here? Like just bring it up with them because you know, I don't, I just, I would like to talk about it because I'm in my head a bit. Like do you want, is there, and then they can say, Oh no, I was just tired or, Oh, are you tired?

Do you want to talk to me about that? Like creating that space for people. Yeah. I feel like, I feel like some people just don't ever know how to articulate themselves. Very true. And that can come down to the individual. And sometimes people just, unfortunately, no matter how nice you are, don't feel comfortable about, you know, confrontation. And that makes it harder because then you don't actually ever resolve a situation and it just simmers.

And those are my favorites because some people just don't know how to deal, but I'm very direct. I've always have been, I think it's the ADHD in me. I'm very just blunt. But I remember like the last set I was on, someone's phone went off and in, I've never yelled on set. I've never argued or belittled anyone. I just remember very direct and just saying, whoever's phone that is, please turn that off. Yes. And they, everyone was like, it's not our phone.

I was like, I don't mind or care whose phone it is. Just make sure it's off. Yes. And then was like back to filming. Yeah. But you know what, actually I will say, cause that moment in the bathtub, I did get a little bit, that was the only time I was quite direct. To the point where it could almost come across as me being a little bit rude.

But the truth is when you look at situations like what we're in, there is an appropriate time if someone has not been aware at the intensity of what is happening to almost as it, cause emotions are healthy emotions regulated well. Are you actually expressing a need? And if someone has crossed a boundary when you've expressed a need and they still have crossed that boundary, there is actually an appropriate, not over the top where it's like damaging.

Like you know, like, ah yeah, fuck, you know, like, no, I didn't do that. Fuck. Sounds like you have Tourette's right there. We have ADHD and Tourette's. Oh my gosh. But I mean like it's true. And I also feel like you did handle that well responsibly in a way that was constructive, because I feel like no matter in a situation where you are vulnerable, you are the director and you are the main star. No matter what you say, that is gospel. And it has to be listened to.

And I say this like that if someone is in a vulnerable state, they can be as direct as they fucking want to be. There is no limit on that. But yeah, it's kind of just, I feel like, yeah, it's good to be firm as a director, but it's not good to be an asshole. It's not good to be an asshole, which is yes, you're stressed. And that just comes down to healthy emotional regulation. Like if you're stressed, you need to regulate your emotions well. I don't know why I laughed. Why are you laughing?

Because I know so many people who don't have healthy emotions. Do not regulate. You're just going to say them regulate, regulate, regulate, regulate. Which just means that you're not going into overwhelm with your emotions to the point where any little touch makes you explode, which I've been on sets like that before. And it is very hard to give well as an actor.

It is very hard for, and just like when I've, I've seen a director treat the crew members terribly, like to the point where I feel like I'm in an abusive domestic violence situation. And they turn around to me and they're like, would you like some water sparkling or, you know, and you're like, you feel sick. You're like, I'll just take nothing. You know, I can't even drink water. I'm just like, oh. So it is like, you know, I forgot what I was talking about. No, I agree.

I think I completely agree with that. And I think that it's one of those situations that you, you kind of think about. And I've been in situations both like in corporate environments, on set environments and just, you know, like that comes to a time where you just, and I really, really, really, really don't like to face people. I really cannot stand to face people.

And you know, it's one of those things that I say, don't, you know, and I've said this since I was a teenager, don't pretend to be my friend if you're not going to actually be my friend. Don't, you know, don't say stuff behind my back. It's so, so bullshitty. And you know, and I know so many people who are snakes in this industry, unfortunately. And that is kind of just how they get ahead. And I also think that, you know, don't, don't blow people up.

It's one of those things that if someone is good and you're like, this person is this, but they also do this as another job. And you know, they're like, they're an editor or they're an actor or they're, you know, but they do also side things. Like, you know, some people talk about other people in the industry, like they only ever do one job. And I'm like, everyone does multiple things. Like you're constantly working.

And I have definitely been on some sets where people don't understand that, you know, you know, even if it's a paid environment, if it's unpaid, your time is limited, unfortunately, because it's not about how much you love the project. It's how much you can give at that time. What you have just hit on is the biggest challenge as a creative in this industry, which is, and people who went in other industries don't understand it as well sometimes.

But you will put in so much time and resource and energy to make this career happen that you actually don't have much energy for much else. So anything you invest in, you're like taking a risk because it's your time and energy. And so it's like, that is the biggest exchange I feel like is sometimes it's not even about like how much pay it is. It's like, can I give this my time and energy? Because anything that you say yes to, you could be saying no to something else.

Or sometimes you have nothing to say yes to and there's seasons as well. And there's a stress in that and trying to make something happen. But what I've kind of learned about the ebbs and flows of this industry is that, and that's why I think so many people get burnout, mental health issues is because they are way too focused, sorry, because, and this goes the same with the music industry. Anyone I see in a creative field, it's like this.

I wake up at like, you know what, I know it sounds late, like, oh yeah. I wake up at like eight to nine o'clock and I know that sounds like, oh, you got a good sleep in. Well, I, so I wake up at nine o'clock, I'll quickly eat. I will do any tapes I have in the morning and then I will go straight to work and then work till probably like eight, 30 to nine o'clock. Then I come home and I do the same thing. And then on Wednesdays is my one buffer day.

If I get something where I'm like, whoa, it's got like four pages and I have to hand it in and I have to like, yeah. So it's one of those things where people don't understand the crazy and not just that, but then on the weekend, oh my goodness, I've got to do an editing session now.

And so my whole, you know, my whole Saturday will be filled with, you know, going to that editing session and putting sometimes things that I love on the side, like, and trying to balance, like having a relationship with that and trying to balance, I don't know, something like family, like seeing my grandparents before they die, you know, they live in Wollongong and it's like an hour away and for some reason it's so hard.

Yeah. And my car broke down last week because as an artist, your brain starts to get frazzled because you've got so many plates spinning. Yeah. You know, in the same week, my car broke down, I've dropped my laptop and the screen cracked and it's just like, it's crazy. It's chaos. You know, it's crazy as well. You know? I mean, like I think you've also hit the nail on the head because it's like, you know, everyone goes, oh, how do you have the time to do anything? And it's like, well, I don't.

I just don't. But I make time by doing things when I'm downtime at work. When I got downtime at work, I edit and that is, you know, and people go, oh, do you ever have time? And it's like, literally I take on more than my brain should actually take on. Yeah. Which is fun. But I think it's the ADHD in me, which it goes. Oh no, I think it's the ADHD in me. I take on way too much. I think we're alike. I think we may be. Just with the nature of this conversation.

I feel like this is either going to be a great, great friendship or a very troubling friendship. Oh God. But no, it's a hundred percent. You know, you hit the nail on the head because it's one of those things that I think people don't compartmentalize and go, okay, cool. I've got so many projects going on and you've got to find the time to do what you love.

Yes. And I have learned even if you do something for like three minutes, you know, three minutes of footage or five minutes of footage, depending on how many shots you've got and you shoot it in a day, that is still a day of effort that you've got to think about all those five minutes of content that you need to get. And then that is a stress in itself. So imagine doing like the multitudes of all that. And I mean, like it's also kind of handy because I do post editing.

So I kind of know what I go into and what I want when I direct. So I can always be like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. That's cool. It's so good. It's coverage is easy for me. Why? What's more annoying is just explaining the coverage to other people. That's where my Achilles heel is because it's taking what's in here and putting it out there. I have never said working with me is easy. You're a DOP. I am so sorry to all the DOPs that I know. But you're all amazing people.

But I do take into everything that you do in terms of filmmaking and this process of getting something right and making it and then the product and just going through between the sound mixing, the music and then the final color grade and then everything. And then you look at the final thing and you're like, God, that's not shit that I thought it was like after it was filmed. And I thought, oh God, no one's going to watch this. And it was actually pretty good.

I think when you watch it through all those stages, you forget about how hard it was because then you instantly want to go, when's the next one? I know exactly. And that's the thing of coming back to just being proud sometimes. Because I don't think this scatterbrain everybody that I'm describing as myself is, it's actually something I'm trying to work on because I'm like, well, one day my grandparents will die and have I seen them enough? Have I been to Wollongong? Have you seen your family?

Have I been seeing my family? Have I been eating? Have I forgotten to eat? Oh, have you done that? Have I forgotten to eat all the time? Do you forget to eat too? Oh my goodness. I feel like we do have ADHD. I feel like we should give this to a psychologist or like somebody that sorts out if you have ADHD and get like a free analysis. I feel like this is like now I'm just going to send the whole type. Send it. We can get a joint diagnosis. Well, I already know I have it.

Oh, you've got the diagnosis? I had it since I was five. Oh. I don't know what's helping you. Nothing. I just have a meltdown every month and I pick myself up and I go again. I mean, that sounds like ADHD. So I think we're on a really, really start. So yeah, you probably do. And this is your, this is your episode. This is why we're like, it is such a great engaging conversations. I mean, for the listeners out there, they're like, what the fuck are you talking about?

But no, I mean, like it, you know, it's, it's kind of like the scatter and then you do have everything balanced. And I do agree. Like I think between COVID and everything, I didn't see my aunt nearly enough and she's in hospital and it's like, I saw her recently. It was great. But it was kind of one of those things that you don't have, you know, like when, when people live in Canberra or they live in the gong, you're like, it's so far to travel.

And then suddenly you've gone, oh, I've only gone an hour today. And then like my parents don't work in the industry and they message me going, when you could have the time to do, I'm like, I don't have time. I will see you at this date exactly at this location. And then we will just dissect. Oh my goodness. It's so funny because like I've experienced, like anytime someone starts dating, they're like, oh my gosh, they just have this vibe that I'm like so spontaneous.

And I'm like, I'm not spontaneous. I'm not. All my spontaneity goes to this career. It's like I get an audition, my spontaneity energy where I've just got to suddenly drop everything and do this thing. That's the audition. And it's kind of like this thing where I have realized that all my spontaneity and adventure energy is in my career.

And it is true because that's why people think kind of have this assumption that on the weekend, because I feel like this free spirit, I will just jump on anything someone says. But I'm like, wait, have we got this in our Google calendar? Is this in, do we have a date and a time and a place?

Because it's like scheduling for me is like how I survive because so much will be thrown at me that I have not scheduled that like I have a lot of people that kind of can get annoyed sometimes because like I, and it is hard because sometimes I'll want and have this intention to see people, but I will catch up with a friend. But the truth is, is that something will be thrown at me.

And in order to like get this thing done that my manager's given me, who I've built a trust and a rapport with, and I'm also reliable to get my agent and my manager income as well, which can be a burden that people don't understand. You need to get that audition in because that's why they're investing in you. I think that's also the Achilles heel that comes with the industry is like, and it does making dating hard. It does make having friends hard. Don't worry, we do love you all. We love you.

But you have to be patient with us because we can't do everything like- We don't have octopus hands. No. I'm just so sorry. That was beautiful. Who would want that? Someone's out there. Someone's out there just like, oh God, I'm a lover. Yes, at late night 3 AM for once. But I mean like, oh honestly, yeah, it's a tough life and you know, it's a man. We sound like we're some sort of therapy block. Oh no. But yeah, I mean like, you know, that is the Achilles heel of the industry.

You've got to kind of make time for it. And you know, it's the only way you're going moving forward. But you know, I've had failed relationships because they haven't worked in the industry or you know, or they don't understand it. They don't get it. And failed friendships that you know, suddenly friends don't contact me because I was too busy. And it's just like, okay, cool.

And also I do think as a creative though, it is important to know the people you need to prioritize, you know, because you don't want a good relationship to fail because you are pushing someone constantly aside. Like you do need to have a balance where your career doesn't gulp up all the good things in your life.

So it is also having the balance, you know, and finding that, you know, like I've just started getting into relationship and making sure that there is time that I am prioritizing for that, that I actually need for me as well. It's not just, it's not just, you know, but that's something that I need for me for my well being to keep something that's important to me in my life. And for me, another one is like my relationship with my mother. I really enjoy my time with my mother each week.

And they're the things that are sacred to me. And I call them my sacred things, which is like the things that you know, the industry doesn't get to touch and it comes back to that thing of identity. It's like, oh my goodness, it's a theme of as a creative, as an actor in this industry, not making it at the core of your identity so that you're kind of a slave to it. Yeah. Also knowing how to branch out and have other things and have things that also make you a whole human.

Because if this is all that you have your value identity focus on, what you will find is you will be very disappointed. You will also get really burnt out, really drained and you won't be fulfilled and you won't be happy. And so, and I think that's where a lot of mental health issues do come in to people in our industry and burnout and depression and hopelessness. It's, you know, we have to have bigger lives in justice industry.

And so it's the balance, you know, it's, you know, definitely relationships where people are a bit sensitive about like maybe a time when you have to cancel on them or like for me, like it's been, you know, maybe not making it to an event on the weekend. Like sometimes it's that kind of stuff and you will lose friends, but the right people will stay. Oh yeah. Yeah. And they, and they, you cherish. You cherish very deeply. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't go away. It's really sweet. I like that.

But you know, I, I often say, um, I make new friends all the time and I say to them, you know, tough shit, you're stuck with me. Oh, that's so sweet. Tough shit. You're stuck with me. Yeah, I know. It's not threatening at all. No, no, it's not. It's cute. It's cute. Um, and I think that's a perfect point to wrap this up. Yeah. Oh, that's so lovely. Can I just say though, Amy, I've enjoyed this thoroughly. Oh, that's so lovely. I have as well. It's been creatively satisfying.

Creatively satisfying. So my next question for you is where can people find you and where can they stalk you on the internet? Oh, okay. If you want to stalk me, um, I guess on Instagram, Amy Hanna P. So H I M E E H A N N A H P. I think that's right. I'm also dyslexic. So we'll see. Um, but also, um, you can, and on there, um, you can look at my project Pinch. We have a page on Instagram, which is just Pinch Short Film. It took a while for me to think about. Um, and so follow that.

We're actually going to have a networking event, hopefully coming up soon. Now I have to do it. I know you got to do it. I'll definitely invite you. Um, and, um, we'll, we'll screen it when it's done and, um, it'll be a fundraising event cause you know, we're still fundraising to get into film festivals. Um, it's a process. Um, but we would love your support. Yeah. And just a little context behind that one. It is, I like to give people context cause it is a heavier issue.

It's about mental health. It's about eating disorders. Um, and like, especially in youth, but I think it's a very important topic that we should be talking about. So you can find me there. Is that all the con I'm not going to give you my number. I feel like that might be a little bit of a, it's like, I don't hand out my address. Yeah. I feel like, you know, I know one friend who has their address on Facebook. I don't know why he does that. I have all fake things. I work at subway on Facebook.

Haven't changed it since I was 13. I'm turning 76 this year. I'm actually 89. Ah, so good. But no, thank you so much for coming on. And if you want to go and check out more episodes, you can check them out on Apple and Spotify. I'll be speaking with another guest next week and I'll speak to you all later. Bye.