Hi folks, just to say we know the World No. 1 and defending champion Ega Shiontech lost tonight. We know that means she lost her number 1 ranking tonight and it will be covered in technical detail, don't you worry, but if you've been listening to the podcast throughout this fortnight, you know that we've been recording in two parts and the first part is recorded after the day session and the second part is recorded after the night session. So you just have
to wait till part 2 to hear all about Yelena Roster-Penco against Ega Shiontech. It's coming though, enjoy the show. Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Mary Ann Batoide. I'm Matt Vellander. This is Mary Carillo. This is Pam Shriver. This is Yannick Noah and you're listening to the tennis
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This is part one of the show where we wrap up what we've seen in the day session. We'll be back later with part two and all the drama that unfolds under the lights and today we have a special politics corner coming up in part one because there has been a big scoop by none other than our very own of this parish, Simon Briggs of the Daily Telegraph and it's caused a bit of a stir in flushing meadows today. So what better reason, what better moment to welcome Mr. Simon Briggs
onto the podcast. Hello, I haven't noticed much of a stir but then I might have got in a little bit late this afternoon. We've been stirring with all this morning. We've been stirring. We've been stirring for you, Simon. We'll come onto the politics a little later. Let's first start with Coco Gough because we have all just come from her press conference she beat Caroline Bosnia Acchi today. 6-3, 3-6, 6-1 to reach back to back quarterfinals here at the US Open.
It was an interesting match, wasn't it? I mean it was a whole three-act play all in itself. That match, five-act play if you include the uncle interview and the press conference afterwards. Lots to take in, lots going on. Yeah because I think, aside from anything else, Bosnia Acchi is an opponent unlike anybody Gough had faced so far in all of the other matches, Brad Gellbert could say to her keep it physical, make it physical and that would be a good idea.
But in Bosnia Acchi in some way she was playing a replica of herself, you know, great backhand, great movement. Not very good forehand relatively speaking. I do think Gough's got a much better serve. But you know it was getting dicey there. I mean at once at all and when Bosnia Acchi broke for one-love in the third set it could so easily have tailspinned for the player who's down. In front of their own fans she's supposed to win, she's playing somebody who's retired for three
and a half years and come back. And actually I give Gough enormous credit, the fact that she just threw off those shackles at that very point. I love players who produce their best tennis of the match when they're under the gun like that and she did. Yeah I thought Axe 1 and 3 to use, to use your terms, Catherine, were quite similar in the start of the first set, Bosnia Acchi went up a break and already I was thinking oh no this is bad for the movement
if Conan and Bosnia Acchi were to beat Gough, but quite quickly actually Gough got the match back under control and played a pretty good first set, played quite aggressively when she could, Readoff 10 points in a row at one stage was using her forehand well opening up the court with the wide serve. There was lots of good stuff. As David said similar game styles but Gough seems to have more what Americans call upside you know more more strengths that she can really use.
Then her game really fell off in that second set Gough, it was an alarming amount of errors in that set and Bosnia Acchi was by far the better player getting in all the service games having a lot of break points, eventually taking it. And then the start of the third set, Act 3 Gough goes up a break
again just as she did at the start of the first set. And it was at this point where I think the match got really really interesting because everyone watching on the TV was able to pick up what Brad Gilbert was saying in the box and what he was saying was it's time to make it physical.
And Coco Gough said towards her box please stop talking. And then proceeded to not make it physical and actually go back to there's a tactic that it works in that first set and shortening the points, taking over and seem to be completely ignoring all the advice that was coming from the box. So it was really really fascinating that period of the match and then was Niaqi tailed off I think quite dramatically in that third set and Gough ended up running away with it really 6-1.
But yeah and of course that back and forth between Gough and her box was sort of one of the talking points in that press conference. How much is Gough going to really own that and how much is she going to maybe row back from it and she did she was keen to point out that she wasn't directly talking at Brad Gilbert. It's a fascinating situation and dynamic this Brad Gilbert situation with Coco Gough isn't it because the results speak for themselves. Brad Gilbert
coaches players to grand slam titles. I have backed her to win this US Open partly because his Brad Gilbert is in her corner and yet what I'm actually witnessing at the coaching relationship is a bloke repeatedly shouting keep it physical and various other instructions which
when ignored are to Coco Gough's benefit. Now she utterly she totally defends him and looks she's in the corner finals I still really think she has a chance of winning this I just don't quite get it like that it's working but what you see with your eyes on the court isn't necessarily a great advert for what I'm sure is good stuff going on behind the scenes. Well we talked before about how his main message has been don't think about your forehand just get on and play maybe that's what's
inspiring I mean to me the Achilles forehand was out there in spades in the second set. Now the system on the press room monitors is telling me that if she hits 16 unforesterious on a forehand side in the second set unfortunately when I started looking at the third side I discovered that the press room monitors were like completely inaccurate and we're logging the numbers all over the shops in my report which I filed before I realized that they did that to be somewhat misinformed.
Oh do you buy tomorrow's telegraphs? Yeah he said she hit one forehand winner in the fifth set but it's in the third set but in fact they were they were the plenty so it's had a malfunction which is quite concerning for a bloke who uses it all day long for his stories. It's quite anyway. Brad Gilbert yeah he we as had a press conference where she said that he has to have a jolly rancher on the gove to chew whenever he's on the court and that he only mentions odd numbers
because even numbers freak him out. Yes if you ask him what time it is David even if it is 718 pm he will say either 17 he will say either 717 or 719 pm because he refuses to acknowledge odd
numbers. Okay. Even numbers rather sorry. Yeah so not a massive surprise to me given given the Brad that I know who I do think is an excellent coach but it was very interesting hearing him say it's time to use loop and shape and air underneath the ball and she and not try to go through her and then the next two points she went directly through her with two of the biggest ground strokes the map. He specifically said don't try and play through her and then she specifically went out
there and played through her and it worked. Coco Van Dewey in our comment box was saying sometimes honestly you just try to prove your coach wrong in those situations and I think what we are getting maybe more than just an insight into the relationship is we're getting an insight into all relationships because finally we're going to hear them and if you think of the number of times you've seen Andy
Murray come up and rents against whoever is in his coaching box from Ivan Lendel to Mars McClagand to Alex Corretcher to whoever it is to Brad Gilbert had we heard the microphones on the TV that they have today we would have heard so much stuff that would have informed at least our conversations and the podcast in a different way I think. Do you do you think it needs to be whole hog and have the coaches on the court like we have at various different team events to this feel a bit
sort of fun journey to camp at the moment. I'm enjoying what we've got. Well then why not only lean into it more and make it even more accessible not sort of having to strain to listen in sometimes. I don't really like translation. I wouldn't want interruption. I mean I think it's quite interesting when you're thinking of sort of united cut style thing. Yeah I'm just hearing that.
I'm just hearing that talked about more and more the fact that generally people seem to be enjoying at this tournament what they're getting from the on court coaching and yet it's still slightly limited by the practicalities of it. You're only down your coaching box and 50% of the time. It's only accessible to you if you happen to be down the end. It's made me have to think about it in commentary because a couple of times I would be speaking and then I didn't catch that they
were saying something and I'm kind of talking over that. I mean you've almost got a time when you talk as commentator for when they're walking over and predicts that they're going to say something. You better shut up so that everybody can hear it but I really do enjoy it. I mean I because you know when we were when they were talking about it I was against it in many ways but what we said all along was they have to mic this stuff up and here at the US Open they are micing the thing up.
One of the things I was always worried about with on court coaching was that it would make players too reliant on their coach and I was out in Washington qualifying the other week and the other day actually not the other week and I was sat right behind a coach on the outside court and he was literally telling his player where to serve and what serve to hit on every single point when she was down his end and serving and I thought that didn't seem particularly healthy.
You want tennis players to be able to think for themselves which is why I think it was interesting that Goff completely ignored the advice that she was getting today. That was kind of an element I hadn't considered of on court coaching. I sort of just assumed that players would take their coaches
word as sort of gospel. That's interesting to hear Coco Van Der Weiss actually sometimes you think you know better and you want to prove your coach wrong and then on the Braggielbred of it all the sort of interesting element here is that he's never actually been allowed to talk like this to his
players before when he was coaching in the past. You know he would have been I'm sure trying to get messages across but not able to actually speak in the same way that he is now now that coaching is allowed and you know for someone who does like to talk a lot Goff seems to be suggesting that
sometimes she doesn't actually want to hear from him quite so much. Sometimes she wants to go over to her towel and reset and not have people talking and I still think I still think he needs to work that out a little bit of when he gives his advice and when he does it and that's an interesting element for someone who's been coaching for so long he's now doing it under new rules and you know
it's it's everyone is sort of learning I suppose with the new rules. I think Coco is the prize a lot of people in pre-tornement press when she used the word relaxing for her description of Bragg but then I went back to the Agassi book to see what he said about working with Bragg and he
talked about their very first hit together and how the message from Gilbert had been you don't have to hit a killer shot every shot give your opponent space to make mistakes and he said that that permission to give up his inner perfectionist was really important to him so in a weird way the
message is relaxing even if maybe the delivery of Gilbert is quite intense. Yeah it is all absolutely fascinating Caroline was the actiest we come to you know hasn't been into press quite yet she's doing very shortly I imagine when she does come in she's going to have something to say about the
fact that the lights weren't put on as she wanted them to be at 5pm she was complaining that she couldn't see the ball properly and it was bizarre to me because it was just completely daylight but her serve did kind of drop off a cliff and they did turn them on suddenly they turned them on but I guess not at the time she wanted them to but you're right she was all over the place suddenly.
Yeah does her come back have legs? I think these what we've seen now is already evidence that she can play at this level whether it's something that can endure I mean the other thing is people haven't got much recent data on her because she's been out the loop for so long and a lot of these
players haven't felt her game probably before I kind of think this might be the peak of it I think she could have a good Australian open because she's won it before but I think this is above what I would have expected what is it fourth round I think that's a really good result that might be the
the best it gets. ID2 and I think it's fantastic and I could see her doing other Grand Slam fourth rounds and similar kind of results at tour level but that explicitly is not what she's come back for so I wonder how long that will keep her juices flowing if she butts up against a
ceiling I don't see her contending with Sabalinkus in Shiontex. Kukou predicted that she'd be seeded to the slam soon even did she say at the Australian open even which is pretty ambitious I mean I can see that but yeah I feel like the game has moved on and that is the take
away and I was comparing it I have to admit I haven't listened to the the Clistet episode yet I feel very shame but I mean Clistet came back and there was right on top of it from the first tournament virtually I don't remember yeah she was and she speaks in that show that you've
not listened to about how she said to her trainer I think I can win the US Open this was after very narrowly losing out to Yelena Yankovych she was then world number one in Cincinnati or Montreal I can't remember which one but you know that I do sense that what Miyaki's coming back
with a similar kind of sass and self-believe she really believes in herself she always has and she think she's got the goods to challenge I she doesn't have the firepower that Clistet had and and I just I really I really do think that this is maybe about as good as it gets and the
game has moved on because more players are using that combination of pace and spin whereas go back to her generation and you had the Sharapovas who hit with the laser land dog method just over the net that was the kind of dominant style low quick through the court and that is changing I mean
they got Peyton Stern's the great example of that that forehand is a really like isn't it yeah totally Brady like and I hadn't seen much of her but those those players are everywhere Goss forehand is is is shonky at times but it has that potential to do that as well and so it's a very
different kind of player that was Miyaki's taking on and when she meets those players I don't see how she's going to get past them now I'm going to be actively looking for opportunities to say the word shonky for the name of the podcast we don't know who Coco Gough will play yet in the quarter
finals because Ega Shiontek and you know Mr. Benko haven't played yet they will have played by the time you hear from us in just a few minutes time on part two the other quarter final from this top off the draw has been set that will be Caroleen Amukava against Serrana Castellas Castellia
getting the better of a quite shonky Belinda Benchich today I was David for an assessment of this match and he said could stay a very good Benchich very bad yeah I mean I I don't understand really how she can be that bad when she's as talented as she is and and I look maybe she
wasn't well or something like that I don't know I didn't get her a press conference but I brought it up in commentary with Coco Van der Waien she said yeah sometimes she just throws in a terrible performance and because her whole thing is to stand in and take everything early she refuses to
compromise and so you can sometimes just get an absolute shocker of a performance from her and I mean Castellia is playing well she's I think this is best at ever seen her play yeah contained tennis not just hitting out and well worth the win I mean she got a one even more straightforward
yeah she really should be on the intensity list Serrana Castellia I think or certainly Serrana Castellia 2.0 but I'm gonna follow I'm gonna follow Matt's lead on lists and make it entirely subjective and down to me and I just I just she said too much
gross stuff on the internet for me to have her on any list of mind mind but she's very intense and she's a good watch and I do think she's yeah playing the best tennis of her life yes 14 years between her two Grand Slang and quarter finals 2009 was her first
wow 2023 which is a second longest gap in in history after Lucic Sparoney is it Thomas Johansson that she has yes and well I mean people are gonna be looking to work with him what he's done with her he worked with Boni Chorich a while back he's worked with a lot of times it didn't
last very long but I remember actually seeing them on the practice court Cincinnati at that time and I thought I can't remember the specifics it was probably 2016 something like that I can't remember what I saw but I remember going away and thinking wow he's a really good coach
I can see him bringing the best out of Boni Chorich and they spit up soon afterwards but it doesn't surprise me that he's he's a good coach he was one of the ones that Caroline was Nihaki turned to for a very short spell as a kind of consultant coach before suddenly thinking
oh no no my dad's my coach and and he had a number of coaching assignments like that it just didn't last that long but whenever I mean I know him quite well from the ATP days lovely guy and really considered always thought he'd be a good coach is he one of the sweetest that you
were threatening to text text last night David Matt was working on a stat but he had a query relating to Joaquin Nistram and David very enthusiastically and eagerly at about two o'clock in the morning said do you want me to text a sweet I do have a lot of Swedes and my phone for they've gone from
being the super power of tennis playing to the super power of tennis coaching haven't they yeah I'm certainly the pipeline at the bottom of that phrase is for them to dry it up they're failure to replicate the success of yesterday areas one of the things that really fascinates me
move of the next for Kiste and now this is a weird one she beat Wongjin Yu today 635761 I watched quite a lot of this match but pretty much none of the second sets which is the one that Mookaver lost so what I saw was Mookaver being just excellent I was so impressed with her today
she looked so athletic and calm and comfortable and shot selection looked all there just a dream to watch and just composed and not just fit but not even worrying about picking up an injury or any anxiety seemed to be gone and I wasn't worrying about her getting injured it's the first time
I felt relaxed watching Kiste and Mookaver in so long but obviously something happened in the second set and I'm hoping Matt will be able to tell you what yeah you did well to avoid the second set it was not pretty and it was really hot today I mean we should we should say that I
think we're expecting a really hot spell now over the next few days I think conditions are going to be a factor in a lot of matches and today felt like a day where that was the case and Mookaver was was not enjoying it in that second set neither player was really the quality was
was quite low in that second set Mookaver's analysis afterwards is that she got into a hitting contest with Wong rather than using her slice and her variety in that second set she just tried to out hit her and it didn't it didn't work and I always find Mookaver so interesting because she's
definitely well I don't want to speak out of turn but I don't think she would be on the intensity list and I almost feel like that can be a real strength of hers the way she's so calm and sort of level headed but it I can sometimes think that matches of hers just sort of drift a little bit
and I think this was one of those and she had to take you know she took a big break after the second set to change all her clothes and she came out much better in that third set and did suddenly look look comfortable again and yeah she's now completed her set of Grand Sam
quarter finals she's made made that round of all four slams which makes total sense like her game works on all surfaces if she's fit I think she probably is one of the best eight players in the world and yeah interesting quarter final against Castella it meant three times already this year
and it's two one head-to-head lead for Mookaver including very recently in Montreal in straight sets but yeah I really think Castella's playing well this tournament I think it's pretty pretty balanced that that quarter final those two matches were an arm strong as was front
is Tiafo getting the better of Rinky Higurkata 6 4 6 1 6 4 a class of parts Tiafo today incredibly professional real game phase situation for him it's like second week of the slam that I told everyone I was going to win last year this is different now and I love to see him penis in a
scribble locked in in the way that he is there were absolutely crazy cues outside Armstrong to to get into this in fact there were crazy cues for absolutely everything today it's Labor Day weekend they've had record crowds in this weekend I think they've had record crowds in all week and that's
obviously fantastic the fact that that appetite is there for this event is brilliant but questions are being asked about whether they are over filling this place it feels it to me and I know that's you know finding a negative in what's basically a positive situation but David and I had to do a
relay in a drinks queue yesterday and what was it about half an hour oh I'm the right drink and then you get to the front and they tell you you can only buy two per person it's it's it's the land of freedom it's the land of freedom unless unless you're a woman or you're trying to buy more
than two alcoholic drinks at a time yeah I'd be interested to hear from our listeners who come to the US open every year to get get their take on if it's got worse because it feels does feel a bit too busy here I mean I think of the French Open this year actually reducing the capacity I think by
2000 because they decided that it was too busy and there's sort of fan experience for those who were there was was worse than it had been so they often made that decision that's obviously maybe extreme it's a difficult balance to you know you want to get as many people in as
you can you would think I do think generally this week there's been an issue of ash finishing so early with only two matches in the day session that that has quite often been done by 334 the day session on ash have then got two or three hours before they're maybe even thinking about
heading home where do 22 24000 people go if there's nothing to watch on ash they go and fill up the outside courts and the and the bars and everything of course and that I think has led to some overcrowding during the days as well something yeah I'm sure they'll be looking at but not wanting
probably to you know do too much about because yeah loads of people coming to tennis is great there was a slightly weird phenomenon in the first week where every ticket was sold and yet the ash lower decks were quite empty weren't they and I was talking to a TV executive who was saying
that that is a real headache for them because it does somewhat kill the bars I think some of those matches possibly killed the bars a little bit as well it's because they're all stuck in a queue for a honey juice yeah yeah that's where they were actually where the the enormous size of ash
which is so much larger than any other tennis stadium can work against it if you only say that you actually have a better view of Manhattan than you do of from the top deck and you do the tennis it's an astonishing turnaround isn't it from a pandemic three years ago meant that the
place was deserted and here we are and it genuine I mean I've been coming 20 years it's the busiest it's felt to me and on one level that is reason to just really celebrate because it the buzz is back and it's lovely to have that but it does feel a bit much really and I think that there are there
does need to be a sensible cutoff you only want this many people coming if they're all leaving having a positive experience saying I want to come back next year I think is the point that lots of people are making Tiafos next will have to contend with bugs bunny energy
fronty Tiafos words folks not mine although I will be using them extensively and he of course there is referring to good vibes Ben Shelton 6463 4664 for him over Tommy Paul totally outplayed his countryman today he grew in the spotlight of an Arthur Ashtadium 4th round match and Tommy Paul
shrunk in that space and I was really not expecting to say that today David you were you predicted this so I'll let you go and I hand it over to you because I did not see this coming listen I didn't expect to tap on like this I thought a shock was possible because you know for a couple
of sets he played him close in Australia but he looked very immature Shelton and Paul looked like the grown up but I have noticed that Paul doesn't look completely comfortable in the spotlight of his own country when he's supposed to deliver and I understand that he's quite shy quite
understated and Shelton could not be more opposite so one guy slightly shrunk as you say and the other one just this is what I'm all about and he came out and he he was three love down and there were points for four love for Tommy Paul but the moment that Shelton at his feet underneath
him he just took it over and I mean look he's benefited from a year of some pretty unpleasant losses along the way which have always been part of the learning curve have become an a professional tennis player and they don't matter because they're all leading to this where he
can be himself and and he goes up to two sets and then there was one game that I will never forget as long as I live and it was him coming out and hitting 140 miles an hour a 141 hour hour server the first serve 149 mile an hour eight second serve which had Tommy Paul
sarcastically clapping the crowd because they were going so wild for for this eights he didn't he clearly didn't like that and then and then he hit a 130 mile an hour one at the body and then he hit another 149 mile an hour serve all in one game and and I've never seen anything like that
it was showboat serving it was it was stuff that his dad would tell him not to do hit the marks that's where you get a he just couldn't help himself and that was in the set that he lost yes that's right because he was he was a break up he was four to up he should have been winning that
it was so exciting and and exhilarating to watch him just put on a show and and I loved every minute this was another match it's sort of a a a twin set with the cocoa gauze a Caroline Garcia match in another match we got fantastic insight from the uncle microphones in the coaching botches
Ben Shelton and his dad slash coach Brian were we're having some tremendously illuminating exchanges Tommy's pissed Brad told him the wrong spots on serve was a personal favorite revealed that his tactic was to go soft into the Tommy pool forehand and make him generate the
power on that shot and he was just openly reveling in that in how well that tactic was working it was brilliant I thought so they're giving away their secrets for next time around well that Tommy poor forehand is a odd looking shot isn't it it's sort of it doesn't have
great charisma that forehand where's the rest of his game does yeah really he moves beautiful yeah it really does stand out I I am obsessed with the Ben Shelton service motion like I just think that's definitely got charisma yes like the way he just throws his whole body into it is kind of unique I think in terms of modern day players it feels it feels to me a bit like a bit of a throwback serve and yeah he's got this extraordinary record this year of reaching the quarter finals in Australia
and then not winning back-to-back matches on the tour until this week which you know is kind of crazy when you look at it but actually when you think about it it sort of makes a bit of sense like he made this splash and then you know he was literally away from home away from America for
the first time in his life traveling the tour for the first time I imagine that as great in his all as it all is to him and as you know much as he enjoys being Ben Shelton that must have been a bit tricky to sort of navigate that for the first time and now he's back in America and he's
loving it and he's getting these stages which he's just made for and it feels like there's so much more to come from him like I still think you know if one kind of Srirro thinks that kind of Salka Razzin in March of this year was what 60% of the way through it feels like Ben Shelton
might be about 60% himself like there's so much more to come I think he's still figuring out how to actually use his backhand he sometimes just bumps it he sometimes really hits through it he I don't think his decision making on the court is quite all there yeah it turns in brief
it really has since Australia the way he was able to get much more into Paul's service games today showed that and yeah he's I loved the way he imposed himself today it was it was really fun to walk and then these are the results that we want to speaking to someone who likes to see
tennis going gangbusters and this is the off day for Brits so in the media room you know me and my colleagues have been taking these off opposite days a little quiet but to see Coco and Shelton both coming through these are the kind of champions who will generate interest around the world
and bring more American fans and bring more TV money I mean these are the guys no offense to Tommy Paul but they are potentially saviors for the sport in America where they as we know since Serena they haven't had too much a shout about can we have a word for Eddie Eddie learned a tough
life lesson today didn't he yeah little Eddie who has been in Tommy Paul's corner ever since he was two sets to love down we told about you told you about the other night and said I'm going to be here all night for you Tommy if you win and he was and he came back the next day and he came
back today he was leading the chance to be the only person that believed it to set us down I honestly I'm not sure Tommy Paul would have won that third set without Eddie yeah I was going to get hashtag Eddie effect friendly eight years old I think back to front cap giving it the fault come
on Tommy yeah Eddie's a good vibe but Tommy Paul was asked in press I think it was a last question is press conference will Eddie be in Australia and and he chuckled and said maybe so put a put a pin in Eddie go back to school Eddie just for a bit and hopefully see him in Australia right then
night session is just getting under ways we come to you Taylor Fritz is serving to the second set over Dominic striker has served for the second set over Dominic striker Joan that jock of itch is already in control against born a goiose fjörnske against us to penco feels like the one
in the night session tonight so we'll be back with part two to wrap all of that up but in the remainder of part one we want to talk about Simon scoop which is the the story that you publish today Simon in the telegraph that the ATP and WTA tours are reportedly taking the first steps
towards a potential merger and I do say first steps tentatively we know how difficult a landscape it is to do any form of collaboration in this sport or to instigate any kind of change but that does seem to be the case executives and tournament representatives are set to attend a
two-day summit in London at the end of this month this is prompted by fears of a live gold style threat and the growing power of the PTPA which you described Simon as having led to a fee-brile atmosphere among tennis administrators the tours have been contacted for comment but nothing
yet what a scoop well it it's unusual that you could say that there's a exciting tennis politics story that you get to write it's a bit of an oxymoron normally but this is quite exciting because we've been talking about potential collaboration between the two tours for so long
and there hasn't been any real take up what buy-in from the people running them Roger Federer tweeted about it in the pandemic year of course and was shouted down by Nick Kirios immediately but the the fact that they're meeting in London and they've got executives from both tours going along
it's a starting point that could could turn into something really important and maybe take us out of this period of fragmentation we just have a lot of moving parts in the game but to have men and women on the same body eventually and it takes years probably to get to that point
would still reduce a hell of a lot of tension and inefficiency and duplication and just give them with such a greater opportunity to sell TV rights as a package it seems like a win-win doesn't it for all of us and the only people who I can imagine will be probably concerned about it
and male players who make maybe 75% more money at the moment and they're female equivalents and they may be worrying that if that was to be redistributed they'll end up as net losers they're the ones that might be wanting to put a foot in the door of the negotiations and say hang on we haven't
been consulted about this it's very important that women are always the net losers yeah it's interesting it's interesting that this seems to be coming Simon from a feeling of real threat of a Saudi Arabian takeover bids or rival tour because I thought the noises we were hearing
out of both tours this summer were sort of total acquiescence to the Saudis and invitation to them to get involved in order to fend off that threat that was the move that was their way of saying don't worry we're not going to resist this we'll let you in there's no need to launch an
offensive so we've obviously got the next JN ATP going to Jeddah Saudi Arabia second city so I was told at the start of the fortnight that the Saudis are very very keen on the 10th master's event but there's very difficult to work out where you put it yeah I mean and they really want it on
Jan 1 which if as you January the first yeah if the 80 people go to go along with that they basically be taking a cannon and aiming it squarely at tennis Australia who have staged the United Cup this year for the first time so the sense that everyone is a little bit squeezed because of all
the different maneuverings that are going on but I suspect that actually maybe the bosses of the ATP and the WTA might be quite glad that they've got this bogeyman out there because without the bogeyman then nothing it's likely to change it's maybe that that they're using to motivate
people to look at the bigger picture because as we've just said we've been talking about this well Billie Jean King we've been talking about it over 50 years so maybe they might have been harnessing it and maybe even encouraging that feeling of impending crisis because that's what it takes
to get something done and what about the PTPA because we quite often joke about sort of how little we see if the PTPA this what was it how many years ago was it there was the famous photo shoots four years four years ago of the mall on the court it's really I think it was here during the pandemic they were wearing masks so yeah big song and dance with lots of noises but they are you can very much rely on them now for a statement to come out about an episode three days late
in a tight face font that you really ever squinted a bit of a real statement three days after the fact in a bizarre form of graphic design like to me they don't feel like a big force but perhaps that's just the public face it sounds like what you're hearing is that behind the scenes
they do have more force the fear among the tours would be that eventually the PTPA sign up enough players that they can go to the slams and say we're going to negotiate with you on failures and then you are taking the tours out of that loop and it's a massive blow to their prestige
I think it's maybe somewhere away the difficulty for the PTPI I have got some sympathy with them because when they try and say something about an event in tennis they're faced with the same problem that the two tours face which is that this is a zero-sum sport in which everything that I
get is something that you're not getting and so and so representing the entire locker room is philosophically impossible because coming to a university beneficial view on anything just it's it's a real challenge so the advantage of going back to the merger is that potentially
if you do have these two tours coming together it might not be a zero-sum game you might actually grow the part you might actually have a product that is more appealing to sponsors more appealing to broadcasters and maybe even fans and and so you don't eventually people will realize that
just because you're doing better it doesn't mean that I'm doing worse right and and that feels like it will be the big message to get across to those hundred percent male players who will you know yes you may stop earning relatively more to the women but you will earn more yourself
overall because the the pie will be bigger and the product will be stronger and if you look at the players on the player council at the moment I think they're the kind of people who have open minds and who will probably understand that message but they would definitely will have some some raging emails and their inboxes hmm what's it this is probably an impossible question Simon but do you have any feel for the likelihood of this actually happening?
I don't think so no but there is just that feeling of optimism that Steve Simon and Andrea Gaudenzi have made a strong play they've acted whether they get anywhere I as you say it's so hard to know does it feel like now or never?
well I think that's kind of their their argument and maybe that's that's also why they're waving the many other stakeholders who might come into the game at their own constituencies and saying you know we need to get on with this it's time it's very interesting look I think we're all
in the right circumstances in principle hugely in favour of of a merger aren't we but well I mean it's just the thought of the administrative yeah and ideological battle that will be going on at those two days of meetings it's just the idea you can insult the what the experience we have
of traveling the circuit and seeing tennis tournaments and knowing that the sport is at its best when men and women are playing at the same time and joining forces at the events look at this place for goodness sake you know look at the crowds that are coming to watch Coco Gawfin and both tours for
good you know lean into that make the most of that celebrate that join together and just go and kill it in the market for goodness sake that's what the whole idea is that business wise that makes sense to me and just idea what a what a revelation it is that tennis can be the one
that actually does it don't squander your advantage the advantage that Billy Jean King and others one for this sport other sports are desperately trying to catch up with tennis and are catching up with tennis and tennis is sat on its laurels for so long I mean I think that on my very daily life
that my colleagues under sports their their their stories usually promoted on the sports page I have a higher chance of having mine promoted on the homepage the general telegraph website the cause is the support of reaches across both genders absolutely so like you say it's the usb
absolutely yeah here here we'll look we'll watch the situation very closely for more scoops do do follow Simon breaks it could be a while hey Simon you started this tournament you didn't you're gonna get anywhere and now look at it you've got Jack Draper in the fourth round and he's got a big
scoop going gangbusters seem a bit fantastic isn't there yeah we want us yeah and all the winners are like quite good aren't they for the second week to your foe as well he's another like but he was looming behind you for for for quite a long time there when you were talking bad
him want to up you interrupt you but he was in a big fluoro hoodie just sort of turning every head because he's just it's disappointing the magnet he's not wearing the onesie from the Australian open isn't it is it a disappointment Simon I was going to do I think I've told you this
before I was going to do a first person food issue one of the people he got to the quarterfinals please he's in the quarterfinals no no but he was wearing it oh what about this one can you do this one I haven't actually really clocked what he's wearing but it's not quite as dramatic is it
it's it's something that would match it I want to see you in it still cause a stir yeah to be discussed folks I feel like that's a bombshell which we can safely end part one Simon thank you thank you very much fascinating stuff as always we'll be back with part two in just a few moments
welcome back to part two where we're at tennis podcast towers it's five past midnight and we vented a brave new world because the former world number one and defending champion Eagish Fionteck is out at the hands of Yelena Ostapenko and yes I did say former because that defeat
for Eagish Fionteck means that Arena Sabileanka come a week Monday or come a week today will be the new world number one suddenly everything has changed David all thanks to Yelena Ostapenko you saw it coming because Catherine went for that in the newsletter predictions and of course
that was always a possibility she had a healthy head to head a 100% head to head against Eagish Fionteck but those were not recent results at the same time we know just how explosive Yelena Ostapenko can be there's no other player like her even as hard as players like
Arena Sabileanka hit the ball they don't hit it like that it's more relentless with those sort of players but not as explosive as not as sort of show stopping as Ostapenko's ball strike is it's audacious it's it's frankly ridiculous what she's what she tries to do and
sometimes she pulls it off and sometimes she pulls it off a lot and tonight she pulled it off for two out of three sets which is all she needed to do we were talking about it at the start you know if she could make it chaotic it could become her night I still didn't see it coming Catherine
personally I was shocked by what I saw yeah look I don't want to take too much credit I picked it picked it because I thought it was a possibility and there was it I felt like the risk rewards ratio it's all about the risk reward ratio and I liked the look of it because the head to head
meant it was always a possibility it didn't mean it was a likelihood I mean obviously in hindsight it maybe it was a likelihood but no I didn't I didn't feel confident about that prediction at all and yet it now feels paytantly clear that Eagish Fiontech has a Yelena Ostapenko problem
because as Pam Shriver pointed out in the ESPN coverage before the match it's not just Ostapenko it is players like Ostapenko and there aren't many like Ostapenko's Dave Roussein she's she's pretty much one of a kind but it is a style match up that Eagish Fiontech does not like yeah that's exactly
it I was not reading like an enormous amount into the head to head going into this match because of the fact that they were before Eagish Fiontech became world number one but actually when Pam Shriver said that in the buildup I was like oh gosh yeah that's that's so true because Ostapenko
the style of play as David said unique but it's flat big flat hits and we've seen Elena Rebecca do that Eagish Fiontech and win we've seen Jessica Bagoula do that a couple of times this year and win and Ostapenko did it tonight and of course what that head to head did do is give
Ostapenko immense belief like I think that was that was important as well like she she said before the match that she can take advantage of the fact that you know Shriver Tex always out to be beaten because she's the world number one and she said before that she has the tools the game plan to
beat her and she brought all of that to bear that belief that game style that Eagish Fiontech doesn't like but having said that I thought Eagish Fiontech played a great first set and was really dealing with that game style pretty well there was there was a lot of moments where Eagish Fiontech was getting behind the ball and timing it back and not framing it or shanking it and turning it back on Ostapenko looking focused I thought I thought she was brilliant in that first set Eagish Fiontech.
And also I think doing a good job of accepting that there were going to be moments periods where it was out of her control and not getting too stressed about that. Totally we didn't actually see the first two games of the second set because ESPN cut to a studio interview with Novat Jokovic but Ostapenko held at the start of the second set she was like I had 40-15 on serve and then
lost serve from 40-15 up and it does seem like from that moment on that was a real turning point it seemed like I think some of the stress came for Eagish Fiontech and honestly that was a really poor third set that she played as good as Ostapenko was which over in 15 or 20 minutes it was
exactly what we said at the start of the year where's the where's the Eagish Fiontech resilience you know it we'd seen a lot of it in the past couple of months at the Frank Jopun you know in the build up to the US Open she played some big type three set matches and yes this
was three sets today but it really got away from her in a very alarming fashion and I don't think it was all Ostapenko in that third set it was great heading but I thought Eagish Fiontech just let it run away from her yeah I mean six one six one set against Eagish Fiontech for someone
like Ostapenko with that she's always she she can break anyone's serve but she's on take should have been doing a better job on the Ostapenko so if there are a couple of service games from Ostapenko there that that were over in in sort of a minute ish that shouldn't really be
happening she did have a great night on serve she had almost 10-8 I think sort of midway through the third set she was up to seven aces I mean that's that's great staff but even so she didn't feel under any pressure on serve in that third set Ostapenko and you know that's that's alien to
her she's she's so she's so used to losing serve she shouldn't think anything of it does she it sort of changes the dynamic of a match really you don't you don't sort of fear for her when she loses serve because she just shrugs it off and goes yeah well yeah that's fine I mean she shrugs
everything off and she didn't even celebrate that much her celebration was like well that's great but sort of like of course I've beaten her every time we've played like obviously this was gonna happen and I just I love that about she is the most fun time in tennis oh oh one of them
I mean I think I judge the players I like to watch the most by how much I laugh during the match at the absurdity of what they're doing and that happens a lot when I watch Carlos Alcras and it happens a lot when I watch Elaine Elaine Rostapenko and with the added bonus of her facial expressions
after winners unforced errors Hawkeye calls that she doesn't agree with it's just always entertaining watching her but it but it that's to sometimes overlook just what an incredible talent she is how she can time the ball like like she does hitting it as flat as she does sometimes looking
as though she's hitting it late and then still managing to muscle it back we're just incredible timing it's not muscle it's not just brute-footed she has the most extraordinary ball strike and it and the ball flies off and often hits the backstop after one bounce and and it's a joke what she's
doing yeah I thought she was moving well tonight as well actually I mean I know it wasn't a match that was decided by movement because it was just it was about ball striking but when required there were a couple of a few sort of hustling points in there from Rostapenko and I thought wow
I'm not sort of used to seeing her in those situations I thought she she dealt with it quite well I mean there wasn't enough hustle from Shviletech no that was a poor mental performance in the end at the end I mean because in the because the first set she handled that pace something's gone
wrong there like she can do it like she showed she can do it in the first set it's not like she just got totally blown off the court and just couldn't handle it she was handling it and then suddenly she couldn't and she couldn't get it back and she lost her last five service games she
on tech I mean she I do think she's got to improve that serve I mean I know Rostapenko is pretty unique in the way that she can attack it but then all year we've said the that the way to get at Shviletech is to take advantage of that serve and you know if you're the
world number one I mean she's not anymore but if you're the best player in the world that's that's what we've seen all the best players do over the years constantly just get that little bit better and it does seem like that's an area where Shviletech's maybe got some of the most
most room for improvement I think on serve it's the whole losing number one thing is almost too big to process right now isn't it it's just it's it's just been second nature Higishvontech being well number one I know it's been sort of hovering on the horizon for a few weeks now
Sabelinka potentially taking it over and yes it's been there but I don't know I just wasn't prepared for this tonight at all and yeah I it's a lot to process I think I do think there's a world in which that really affects Shviletech losing number one I really think I don't think she's a sort of
I don't think about the ranking person I really think she's a yep I'm number one I'm the best player in the world person I think that I can't as I say haven't had time to process I can't not doing a very good job of explaining it but I can definitely see a world in which that
rocks her on her heels in shakes shakes what can sometimes be a surprisingly fragile sense of self belief in Higishvontech well we saw it tonight she won the first set you think you've got this and yet it all suddenly looked so frail um I suppose yeah as you said so soon
so hard to process I suppose is there a chance it goes the other way and like I don't think like I think completely agree it's been important to her sense of self belief and she's own number one pretty well and it's an extraordinary streak of 7 to 7 4 75 weeks at number one like straight out
the bat like that's that's amazing how she how she made that number one her own at such an uncertain time with Ashbati retiring but I I don't think it necessarily suits her sort of personality wise I think there have been times where she's felt the burden of number one as well
particularly at the start of the year you think she's sort of gone through that tunnel now and now she does see herself as very defined by perhaps yeah yeah but I as you said she's she's been this number one and she's been so dominant and she racks up scores like six love six one all the time
and yet you sometimes watch her and you think there's a there's a fragility there still yeah it might it might free her up a little bit to to be the underdog in her own mind for a little while it's impossible to know really it's not a bit we haven't seen this for a year and a half
yeah it really could go to opposite ends of the spectrum you're right it could could totally free her up a non-burden her or it could you know I we always talk about her being on the edge don't we I I I worried I've talked about feeling like the way that she makes it work at the top
of the game feels unsustainable to me in the long term and I do wonder if this could provoke some sort of crisis but all she could just you know carry on being extremely good at tennis but number two in the world for a bit rather than number one who knows this first of
ladies and what about Savalenko well what's it what's it going to do for Sabalenko's sense of self and belief because she might turn into a new player I think I think a lot of that might hinge on what actually happens for the rest of this tournament you know like if Sabalenko assumes
the number one ranking which she will but does her does the thing of losing again in the semi-finals that's the thing I'm sort of wondering whether now over the rest of the tournament well I and both I kind of wonder whether I think she'll be ravenous to to underline this
now I mean she's ravenous every match isn't she but you know what I mean I think maybe she might walk even with a bit more swagger and self belief I'm world number one come out and get you or um fascinating I mean it has been a it has been a theme of the year hasn't it
players getting a bit closer to Eugish Viontech like Sabalenko Rebecca in a Osterpenko Osterpenko got yeah like it does feel like the gap has closed but yeah it is it is strange that Eugish Viontech isn't the world number one we're so used to
it and I think even within this tournament to me now the tournament feels very different as well like I didn't think Eugish Viontech was like guaranteed to win this by any means but just her not being in the draw feels like it opens up so many possibilities for kind of everyone that's left
like I was looking at the players left left in that top half and you you would perhaps slightly say Castella is slightly aside just because she's never been passed the quarter finals of a slam but you know she is playing very well you've got you've got Gough now I think this improves Gough's
chances I think it has to considering the one seven head to head against Viontech that she had but you know also Mukava and Osterpenko has one major before and and beat Gough in a major this year this year I think Gough's a better player now but that's that's but you know we've seen what
Osterpenko does with you know good head to head and belief and and her game it's it's really compelling it's really really compelling first time us open champion guaranteed in in the women's draw now yeah I mean she's Viontech just just takes up so much space in in my thinking about
the tournament I suppose just because of what she's done like and suddenly you remove her and it just feels like even more players have a chance in a way if I don't know why it just feels like the mix got bigger tonight and and I think it even plays that aren't won't due to
face Viontech next obviously that's Koko Gough I just think for everybody Viontech would have been this looming features somewhere in their consciousness just a blight on it and that's gone yeah if you're starting to think of oh who might come out of of the bottom half and you think okay they
might get through that half but she's probably gonna be there in the finals hard to see them actually winning now yeah feel so you honestly it really does feel like in brave new world wow I should have been I should have been more prepared for this but especially given your predicts I know but I'm
really not it's a brave new world being second on the leaderboard and I've ever been there before and it definitely won't last but I will enjoy it for tonight um a couple of other things happen tonight know that jock of it's beat born a goiyo in straight sets we've got nothing to say about
that pretty uneventful no brave new world that no brave new world straight forward play very well he will face Taylor Fritz in the quarterfinals who beat Dominic Strickert in straight set Strickert did break the Taylor Fritz serve no one else has done that yet this tournament Fritz
has done what we asked of him he now needs to go out there and give no vent jock of itch a match yeah he's he's done the bare minimum for for what his draw was had and look he's done it in straight sets efficiently that's impressive but he's absolutely done the bare minimum because if he had
have not done this I'd have been panning him now he needs to produce against no vent jock of itch not win because jock of itch is a better player than him and if jock of itch plays to his best ability he will win anyway but Fritz has to play and play well all I have to say left about that
match is I'm fascinated to see when it will be scheduled I don't think jock of itch has played day session yet the other quarter final in that half is an all-American clash it's Ben Sheldon against Francis TFO but on Tuesday it's scheduled to be 35 degrees here no match jock of itch
will be pushing as hard as it will be pushing as hard as a elaine rostre penco for one for that to be another night session match and quite quite right too push what you want doesn't mean they have to listen I'm I'm fascinated about which way round they do that
scheduling because I think it's pretty big for no vent jock of itch I'll still back him in a day session but it is a different proposition as well that could be no vent jock of itch with a hat on David yeah and then and you know he never wins with hats on all not very often he plays he
played his second round in the day oh but like it's going to be really hot over the next few days and those are not conditions that know that jock of itch wants and likes so he has played ones okay I so the other match is TFO Sheldon I think that should be the night match
I do too and I think all of the things being equal I think yes be and we'll want that to be the night I know it's jock of itch against an American but TFO is a big deal than that and certainly TFO against Ben Sheldon I think they want that the night match but jock of itch is 20 to 23 time
grand sun champion yeah and he'll be pushing hard I'm yeah watch this space tune in tomorrow we'll let you know what the schedule is for the next day this is the schedule for tomorrow at the US open what's the first match of the day on ash David the Jessica Pagula versus Madison keys yeah
I think Pagula's got that why you volunteering predictions Catherine keys against Pagula then it's Alchuraz against Onnell the night session the world hey this is works out actually kind of perfectly hasn't it aren't this Aberlenka will play her first
Arthur Ashtadia match this tournament debuting as world number one yeah I'm ready please for yeah she'll face Daria Kasakina and then it's Verive against Sinner the last match on ash tomorrow paint stands against my ket of undruish of her first on Armstrong then
it's Jack Draper taking on Andre Rubelev on his jobber against Junshin when is next and then Daniel Medvedev against Alex Derminor Goff and Pagula in doubles action tomorrow as Arrenka had dad Maya Ben Sheldon still in the mix so all happening folks we've been talking all day
haven't we about how perfectly set up week two feels it just feels like one of those tournaments that's building and not we we were worried in the men's side won't we that would all feel like preamble to the final yeah the final that we all wanted and we all want to see Jacović Alchuraz
I think no one's gonna say no to seeing that match but it does not feel like preamble it feels like we've got a great week ahead yeah seven days of it so stick with us folks seven more daily tennis podcast to come from the us open plus all the bocco that we record after it for friends of the
tennis podcast if you want to become a friend the link to do that is in our show notes as is the link to subscribe to the news that are being a news that is to subscribe her is how to gain access to that incredible competition that aO travel are offering incredible competition prize so
the details of how to enter that are in the newsletter tonight we have our lovely mascot willow we've got our mascot Zenia hey Zenia we've had a good one David's got Maisie they've had a good one to come Maisie you and me Matt and Darwin also had we were fine we got some points got many but we
got some not many points points points points points point to point Billy Jean is one to both Billy Jean King and Alana Klaus we have executive producers they are Jamie Hanna and Drew and they are all top folks and Matt we have shout outs we have Chris Wilkes in Tucson Arizona
like Chris Wilkinson I was going to say like Hannah Wilkes very good boys are Twitter yes um Tucson Arizona I thought it had something to say I don't Bruce has a song called Tucson train very good Arizona home of the Cardinals hmm terrible NFL team at the moment did we drive through
Arizona no Chris thanks a lot one of the few states in America that Matt and I haven't driven through at this point we'll pop it on the list thank you Chris we've got Catherine Coiser in get this Mount Pleasant South Carolina which is apparently seven minutes away from the Charleston open
at church and Pew same church same Pew and Catherine says I met David at the French open just outside Chattriae and practically knocked over two people to get to him he met my husband David and one of my daughters Caroline and he couldn't have been nicer oh thanks Catherine we we do have
a disproportionate number of Catherine's in the chat it is wild right it is okay I'm not imagining that and make no bones about it I love it thank you to all the Catherine's thank you and particularly to this Catherine and finally we have Marion who is in mind in Germany oh like
Marion Barty Lee Marion says on the day of the women's French open final in 2022 you gave a lovely special shout out from me to my wife Martina because we were getting married that day I remember that I'm happy to report that Martina said yes we listened to the shout out together a couple of
days later and it was a lovely surprise thank you there isn't that rather unfortunate addendums that note to say also Eagustrian take is our favourite player so it was perfect that she won the title which had I planned the shout out was better I might not have chosen that one for tonight I'm very sorry Marion what the note to end on Marion thank you and sorry we'll be back tomorrow good night