Hi, I'm Raj Punjabi from HuffPost. And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost. And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all-too-human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right. Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right. And we're talking like legit, credible experts, doctors, PhDs, all around superheroes. From HuffPost and AKAST studios, check out Am I Doing It Wrong, wherever you get your podcast.
Hey marketers, your marketing plan deserves more than just reach. It needs real connection. Podcast advertising with AKAST puts your brand in the ears of your perfect audience when they're paying most attention. And with more than one billion listens every quarter, we know your next customer is listening to AKAST podcasts. No matter what app they're using, target audiences like paid social with cinema-like attention. Whether it's by demographics,
interests, or your own first-party data, connect with the right people with AKAST. Visit go.akast.com slash ads to get started today. Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Marion Bhattori, this is Bianca Indrescu. I'm Matt Svillander, this is Mary Carrillo, this is Pam Shriver. This is Yannick Noah, and you're listening to the tennis podcast.
Well, hello, and welcome to the tennis podcast episode 1,301 of the tennis podcast. Yes, in true tennis podcast fashion. We have neglected to celebrate an anniversary, and we'll be doing so one episode later.
It is the great tradition of our work, David, right into folklore. Yes, I even started to think maybe people think we're just doing this now because it's a bit, and it really isn't the case. I mean, admittedly on 1,299, we did say it's 1,300 next week. We must mention it, or we could do it the week after. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, not intending to do that at all. And then we completely forgot all about it.
Yeah, I do think a little bit of blame here falls on the shoulders of Rafael Nadal because the numbers that he, you know, we did an extra emergency podcast. So episode 1,300 came upon us a bit sooner than we were, we were expecting. But nonetheless, I did still have a diary entry in for last Monday for episode 1,300 that I entirely ignored.
Hello, Matt Roberts, who it was inevitable it would happen one day soon is wearing the same hoodie as me. Yes, and David's wearing the black version. So we're all sort of matching today. We look like we're in a uniform.
Which maybe we are. I don't, I've got no problem with that. I love my hoodie. Before we get going, folks, I want to tell you about a 20% discount code that we have to offer to all tennis podcast listeners to use on both the Billie Jean King Cup and the Davis Cup finals in Malaga next month.
If you want to go and watch them incredible tennis in Malaga, I got the chance to go for a day last year and wish I'd got the chance to go for longer. Matt was there for the whole week of the Davis Cup finals. Obviously this year, the events are being held back to back indeed, actually overlapping for a couple of days between the 13th and the 24th of November in Malaga.
It is, it's an absolutely stunning place to go, particularly at that time of year where if you're based in a lot of Europe or a lot of the Northern hemisphere, the weather is pretty rubbish. And my experience in Malaga last year is that it wasn't rubbish there and it was an extremely lovely place to go to watch some excellent tennis.
So if you go to the official Billie Jean King Cup and Davis Cup website, you can use the code tennis podcast. That's all caps tennis podcast when you select your tickets. That applies a 20% discount code. I should say that the Spain Davis Cup quarter final is sold out for when I'm sure pretty obvious reasons, but there are still tickets available elsewhere. And of course, if Spain win that quarter final, we'll see them again later in the competition.
I'm not promising Rafael Nadal. You could get talent Greeks poor to be clear. That is not a promise of Nadal Caraz. I don't want to be sued if you get Wesley Coolhoff and Talon Greeks poor. Cool sport. Wow. David, nobody's hoping they go far enough to have to spawn a team name. Well, the Dutch, the Dutch are. Dutch tennis podcast fans, get your tickets for the semi-finals because you might get to see Coolsball.
No, it's going to be good. Matt's going to be there this year. So if you do get tickets, you can look out for Matt Roberts, an extra little bonus bit of fun. Right into the tennis and what we've seen over the past week. Let's start in Ningbo, China, a WTA 500 event won by Doria Kassikina, an all Russian final here. She beat Mirandrava, 6 love, 46, 64 in a wild final that Matt was live texting us about yesterday. Tell us about it, Matt.
You know, sometimes tennis matches are just bad. And I'm afraid to say this was one of them. Completely compelling and I was gripped by every moment of it, but it was a bad tennis match in terms of quality. There was a lot of narratives going on. Kassikina has reached a lot of finals and has quite a lot of scar tissue in those finals. She's not converted a lot of them into titles. And just a few weeks ago, we watched her in the soul final, have a big lead on Hadas Maya and then lose it.
And it felt like the same thing might happen here. She was 6 love, 1 love up against Andrava. And honestly, I wouldn't even say that Kassikina was playing that well. She was solid. She was making life difficult for Andrava, but Andrava was well off her game. She was in tears after about 4 games. It was clearly a lot for her and Kansita Martinez was looking very concerned on the sidelines.
It just wasn't a good watch. But then Kassikina completely went off the boil and suddenly, from 6 love, 1 love up, she found herself 3 love down in the final set. And Andrava hadn't done anything particularly spectacular to get to that point, but Kassikina had really not played well. And then it flipped again. And Andrava started, well, sort of carried on being nowhere near her best. And Kassikina raised her level marginally.
And that was enough to reel off 6 of the last 7 games and win the match. And 47 unforced errors from Andrava in 3 sets. Only 8 winners from Kassikina in a match-winning performance over 3 sets. It was just one of those matches where most of the rallies were won by mistakes and errors. And there was clearly a lot of nerves.
So, you know, it was compelling. It was sort of really interesting to watch. I think probably a final that hinted at why both players kind of are where they are in the rankings. You know, they've had great seasons, both of them. But I think there's quite a way to go for them if they both want to be sort of challenging at the very, very top and trying to challenge Shfiomteck and Sabileko and Goff and these sorts of players.
They're just not really quite in that category. But Kassikina, great fighting spirit throughout the tournament. She had to save match points against Putin Saver. She was down against Siniyarkaver. She was, as I said, down 3-11, the final set here. It's a big deal, I think, for her to get over the line and win the title. And, you know, as hard to watch at times as the tennis was, it was one of the best trophy ceremonies. I think I've ever seen such warmth between the two players.
Again, Andrava was really struggling to speak. She was clearly very upset. And Kassikina actually ran onto the stage to give her a hug. And then was sort of just lovely towards her when it was Kassikina's turn to speak. She very much spoke about how, you know, she's thanked Andrava for being in her vlogs. She made sure to get her custom we plug for her vlog in there, which was great. She said to Andrava, you're only 17, but you're already a pain in the ass.
Andrava said something sort of similar about Kassikina on Instagram today. And I think it was a lovely, lovely scene, a lovely show of warmth and humanity from Kassikina. We know she's one of the good ones. And yeah, it was a really nice end to the sort of occasion. But the actual match was very much one that I think we should probably never speak of again.
The vlog this week features Dorek as a Kina going ice skating. Have you seen this? Because of course her partner Natalia Zabiyako, who features a lot in the vlog. Well, co-hosted. Doesn't she? She's a former figure skater pairs figure skater. Excellent one at that. And I was waiting for the episode where we got to see Kassikina on the ice rink.
Spoiler alert, she's not a natural, I would say. It was really. I hope this isn't, maybe it doesn't make me sound like a sadist. It was really sort of pleasing, watching somebody who's like the best in the world, or you know, one of the very best in the world. That certain thing be bad another thing. You know, you always worry that someone's going to be one of those annoying people that's just naturally brilliant to everything. And like, oh, God, I'm going to have to hate you. But no, it's okay.
Like Andy Murray, who David played a golf tournament with last week and Andy Murray won. So knowing you. Yeah, Andy Murray rocked up. I mean, very good of him to come to the British Jones Journalist Association annual golf day, which is now named in honor of and held in honor of our colleague Mike Dixon.
And, um, Janice of the Daily Mail that we lost earlier this year, really good of him to come. Was it cool of him to win it? I think it was entirely fitting, frankly, and really rather amusing because Andy was, was teaming off first. And that six groups of four great turn out to this golf day. And I think a real measure of just the warmth and respect with which Mike Dixon was held by all of us and including by Andy, you know, who was covered by Mike throughout his entire career.
And I know respected him might not have always agreed with him. And I'm sure they had some some spirit debates about all sorts of stuff, but I really respected Mike Dixon as we all do and did. But Andy, Andy gets paired with Neil Scubsky up first and see a phrase with the time and Scott Lloyd from from the times and Scott Lloyd from the LTA and at this is a par four, where everybody has to basically hit one to get in position and hit two onto the green.
Andy just tries to drive the green in one and misses the green by about four meters, you know, I mean, he's just he's just making a mockery of the whole thing. He hit the longest drive it, a longest drive competition. He out hit us by a long way. Let's just put it that way. And I mean, you know, he's hardly been playing golf really yet.
But from what everybody says is his handicap is just plummeting. I mean, he's just he's playing a lot, but you can just see the natural hand eye coordination and the natural sports ability that he has. It's it's just something we don't have. Speak yourself, David. I've been to one golf lesson and the the instructed lend describes me as a natural talent. So I will have you know I could be on an Andy Murray trajectory.
I'm really looking forward to being humiliated by you in our next round. Matt, after Wimbledon next year. Back to Ningbo just just briefly. There's a bit of a wild tournament, wasn't it? It's sort of a real bum note in the semifinals. They both ended in retirements. One of which was for well, actually, no, I mean, both in similar categories.
Two retirements for players who have been totally blighted by injury over the last couple of years, Caroli and a mucoveran and Paola Badosa, David, you just your heart just sinks. When you see them go down with injury. And you're really holding your breath because I was watching the carol in the mucover match because I just always tune in to her matches. Don't care who she's playing because I love watching her play. And by the time I got there, she was 4 to down.
And I just thought, oh, this will be a really interesting type of match just seeing how they try to work on another out. And then mucover started to just slow down a little bit in the rallies. And I'm thinking, oh, you know, and she started to win so little bit. She had the train around to sort of just trying to put pressure on her back to, I didn't really know what the issue was.
She went off court, came back, played one point and then just you could see on her face. No chance. No chance could she complete the match. I'm really reluctant to say that it didn't look too serious because this is a player who's been out so many times for nine, 10 months and worse. But my hope is that this is over playing and that this is something she's jared and needs to be loosened up and a bit of rest given because she's played a lot recently.
You know, one of the things when you win a lot of matches is she has you play a lot and she'd been signed up to a lot of events. But yeah, it's heart and mouth stuff and I just hope that this isn't too serious. It didn't look too bad from first glance and I hope that that first glance proves to be correct.
I remember her back seemed to be troubling her in the third set of that, a paugula match at the US open. It was difficult to tell whether it was sort of generalized fatigue or whether there was something specific going on with the back. But I do remember at the start of that third set, she was, she was clutching at her back cause she's a maybe it's the sort of thing that that flares up when she plays a lot of tennis.
I don't know, but echo your thoughts David. There were seven lucky losers in this draw that there was a player who didn't win a match in qualifying that ended up in the main draw. Yeah, that was jackal and Christian lost, lost first round qualifying and ended up, as you say, in the main draw and extremely high number.
I think a couple of those were Pauline and Junqin Wen who, you know, they know that they're secured for the WTA finals, which hopefully there's going to then be a payoff for the WTA finals. Sometimes you get to the finals and you've, you've got players who are gassed because they've been straining every last sinew and playing every tournament just to try and qualify.
You know, with a bit of lead in Pauline and Junqin, although Junqin is playing this week, but hopefully they'll both have plenty in the tank for the WTA finals. But yeah, just I think it's a real theme at the moment, like there's, there's just, you know, Tokyo this week has been absolutely decimated by players pulling out and we're drawing as well.
Yeah, it really feels like we're, we're sort of crawling over the finish line of this, this season, I think a lot of players are very tired or injured or some combination. And yeah, I think just waiting for the season to end really. There was also a WTA event in Osaka, Japan this week, a 250 that was won by Susan Lamens, the Dutch player, who doesn't have a profile photo on the WTA website, which I always find very validating when I don't know anything about a player to go on the WTA website.
Oh, the WTA doesn't either, because honestly, I don't really know anything about Susan Lamens other than she is 25 and from the Netherlands. And she beat Kim Birl, a fellow qualifier in the final in Osaka, six love, six four to win her first WTA title. So congratulations to her. Over in Stockholm, the ATP 250 event, Tommy Paul beat Grigel Dimitra of six four, six three in the final, very impressive week from Tommy Paul didn't drop a set. Matt, you watched this final, I think.
Yes, and you know, this is, this is what happens when Tommy Paul doesn't run into the best player in the world in a tournament. He ends up winning it. He lost the Thomas Mahatch twice in recent weeks. And Thomas Mahatch is nowhere to be seen in this draw. And Tommy Paul comes through and wins his third title of the season. And I watched this final and he was awesome.
Right from the start, just all over Grigel Dimitra of really went up a break straight away. And it was one of those Dimitra of looked a little bit fatigued to me. He played a long one against Grig Spore the night before. And it was just one of those matches where Dimitra of was stuck in his backhand corner. And Paul was just absolutely picking on it time after time, really, you know, mixing up how he would pick on it. But really impressive.
And Dimitra of maybe just didn't quite have the the foot speed or the power to get out of that corner and get his forehand into play. Yeah, he just looked a bit stuck there. But Paul was absolutely brilliant. And it's been a great week for him because, you know, that's 250 points. And the race to cheer in is getting pretty tight from that sort of seventh spot down. I should think, Jacke of XI, is probably going to be in.
But from there downwards, it's pretty competitive. And a lot of Paul's rivals lost early this week. And he really capitalized. Yes, you got Caspar Rude in seventh on 3845 points less than 700. No, just more than 700 ahead of Grig or Dimitra of in 11th on 3100 points just ahead of him. Tommy Paul in 10th, Alex Demenore in 9th, and Andre Rublev in 8th. So it's really tight and it is going to be fun. I think the race for those those last couple of spots. We also had the ATP and Antwerp this week.
The tournament was won by Roberto Battista. A goot. He beat Eurela Hetscher in the final 7561. David proudly said, I've got this one covered. I watched Roberto Battista a goot, but Eurela Hetscher I can talk about that. Turns out David watched match points. Tell us about it David. I did. It's a good match for him. Actually quite a long one. But actually I did take a bit of notice this because I, I mean, for a start, I love the tournament in Antwerp.
Generally, I think it's really, it always seems to have a great crowd. It's just one of those that seems to punch above its weight in terms of feel when you turn it on. And that's what I'm always drawn to. Unless Carolyn and MacCovid's playing, then I'm looking for atmosphere and or otterfee, obviously. But in this one, you know, I turn this on. All due respect to Roberto Battista a goot and Eurela Hetscher. I need something else other than just them to get into and the crowd is it.
And I just, I'm just so impressed with Battista a good because he he has felt like I don't I don't want to use a horribly what sounds like a derogatory term like a journeyman because but but relatively speaking to the rest of his career into the to a lot of players on the tour. He just hasn't been a factor in such a long time. He's taken a lot of losses. He's he's just not been able to play anything like what he used to play and it wouldn't.
If he'd had just drifted away and retired, I think people would have understood that he's had really good careers in his mid 30s. And here he is just turning up again, giving everything he's got, beating a guy who's who's on the up, you know, in Eurela Hetscher in the final, not his necessarily best serve is although he's not a clay core to his about his trigger. He's he's tended to be happier, I guess, on some of the faster services because he's got flatter hits and that kind of thing.
I just think it's really impressive and you know, I loved seeing the look on his face at the end. I mean that was that's the one thing you get out of just watching match point and championship point. You just get this look of ought to glee on the face of somebody and that was a better artist or good.
Oh, all that from much point. Tell you what, if I were David Freire, Spain's Davis Cup captain and I'm looking to win the Davis Cup, I'm not putting Raffa on a dial in singles over Roberto, but he's to a good at the moment. That is to go has won 10 of his last 12 matches. He's beaten feasts, extra vary, the extra a couple of times, Orja Alia seem.
As David said, we know he's good on an indoor hardcore. Nadal has barely played. I only watched about a set of Nadal this week and I really didn't think he was looking anything close to good. If he were to play Raffa Nadal in that first match and they were to lose Nadal and Alcras were to win, suddenly, as you said earlier, Spain are having to win a doubles against the Dutch who have cool off and have a good doubles pair.
The safest way for Spain to win obviously is to win both singles and right now, I would definitely be taking about Easter a go over Nadal, but gosh, that's a big decision to make. I think we're going to find out a lot about David for Er as a Davis Cup captain, aren't we? Quite bold of him to say publicly that I've told Nadal to be ready to play Burtek van der Zanskulp.
Yeah, I agree that's going to be very interesting indeed. Just running a results from this week on tour, the ATP were in Almaty in Kazakhstan to 50 event won by Karen Hashanov. He beat the Canadian Gabrielle Diallo 65763 in the final match. You made your tennis podcast name for yourself with Karen Hashanov takes. Have you any to proper to the audience today? Do you know, I didn't even watch Match Point.
I watched all these other matches and that one just passed me by. I'm pretty sure it was a set in a break up and I thought it was done and then I checked back at the score and he was in a third set, but he did win. I mean, no, it's the answer. I don't have any. Matt's not falling into the trap of big Karen Hashanov takes off the back of one result on indoor hard courts at the end of the year.
Has he done has Hashanov done in the last what is it six years since your first appearance on the show where you were lauding his was it tied to in Paris. Has he has he done more or less than you thought he would. Oh, less, I think. I mean, oh, David, if you listen to that show recently, will. Will thought Karen Hashanov was the bomb.
Because that Paris title was off the back of that Nadal performance at the US Open. That was the one. That was the Karen Hashanov match where I thought, wow, this guy is the bomb. I suppose he's been consistent at slap. He's been a feature of slams like quarter finals, some semis. That's not nothing. That's an incredibly high level and he's done it on all surfaces.
But I think I thought he would. I think I thought he'd be like a massive disruptor with a big game and big weapons who was like hurting top players and he's not. He's kind of like the bar. Mr. Reloable. Yeah, he's turned into a different type of player than I thought he would be. Maybe more consistent than I thought. But without the without the massive peaks that I thought he might have if that makes sense.
You said you didn't have Karen Hashanov takes. You should never underestimate yourself. That's it for part one. We'll be back with part two in just a moment. Hi, I'm Raj Punjabi from Health Post. And I'm Noah Michelson, also from Health Post. And we're the hosts of Am I doing it wrong? A new podcast that explores the all-too-human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
Check on the podcast. Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right. And we're talking like legit, credible experts, doctors, PhDs, all around superheroes. From Health Post and ACAST studios, check out Am I doing it wrong wherever you get your podcasts. Hey marketers, your marketing plan deserves more than just reach. It needs real connection.
Podcast advertising with ACAST puts your brand in the ears of your perfect audience when they're paying most attention. And with more than one billion listens every quarter, we know your next customer is listening to ACAST podcasts. No matter what app they're using, target audiences like paid social with cinema-like attention. Whether it's by demographics, interests, or your own first-party data, connect with the right people with ACAST. Visit go.acast.com slash ads to get started today.
Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where we turn our attention to re-ad and the six Kings slam exhibition event. No expense spared with the five best tennis players in the world, men's tennis players in the world and Holger Runa. It was won by Yannick Sinner. He beat Carlos Alcaraz in the final to win six million dollars. No, that's a joke of it. Beat Raffa on the dial in the third and fourth place. Play off some of the sums of money on offer with just eye watering.
Daniel Medvedev won just three games in his one match against Yannick Sinner. And this status occurred to see an article at internist.com. I thank them for doing the math. So I don't have to. It worked out as Medvedev being paid $21,739.13 for every minute he was on court. Alcaraz's earnings in Saudi Arabia represented 66% of what he had earned on court this year. And Runa is 1.5 million that represented 68% of his year to date prize money.
This event was part of what's being dubbed re-ad season, which is part of the Saudi, Saudi Arabians generally increasing footprint in tennis, which is part of vision 2030, a multi billion dollar program backed by Saudi Prince Mahat. Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman aimed at diversifying the country's economy to reduce dependency on oil.
Human rights watch describes it as sports washing as do many other critics, which is the laundering of the government's reputation by hosting major sports events that attract widespread positive media attention while diverting it away from the host's abuses. Kasparu wasn't in Saudi Arabia this week and he was asked about this event taking place and whether he had been invited to play. He said, I didn't get an offer from the Six Kingslam, but I've had offers in the past and I've chosen not to go.
Of course, it is a controversial country in many ways, but there are also other countries that are controversial that we travel to and play in. You can definitely discuss China and human rights there, but we go there every year. There was a lot of talk about Pung Shui and what happened to her. And that's just to say that if you want to point to Saudi Arabia as a controversial country, you should also mention other countries that we don't talk about.
And that is a kind of summary of the stance or defense that a lot of people take when defending decisions about going to Saudi Arabia taking off the offers from Saudi Arabia generally getting involved with the country. Going back to 2022, I remember Judy Murray, well-known proponent of women's issues in sport and has done so much good in that area.
She participated in the Diri Akup, which involved her taking a role overseeing tennis events for school and university students and taste the sessions for children and their parents at the tournament at the time. She said the following throughout my involvement in tennis, I have championed the cause of giving as many people as possible the opportunity to try tennis and to fall in love with it the way I have and the way Jamie and Andy have.
I'm particularly keen to ensure girls and women are given an equal opportunity to enjoy and experience tennis, whether for fun, for fitness or for friendship. I look forward to bringing that message and the practical skills and knowledge to the tennis community in Saudi Arabia and the effort to introduce more girls and women to tennis.
An amnesty international, the human rights organisation at the time said about Judy Murray's decision while promoting women sports in a country which has long stifled women and girls human rights as a positive thing, it is important that Judy Murray should realize she's being asked to perform a sports washing role in Saudi Arabia.
We encourage Judy Murray as we would other attendees at the Diri Attennis Cup to use the opportunity to speak out and show solidarity with those who are being persecuted in Saudi Arabia's relentless crackdown on human rights. And just on that subject, the Diri Attennis Cup that Judy took part in was sponsored by Aramco, the Saudi State-owned oil and gas company, who have also been in the headlines today.
This reported on the BBC Sport website this morning, more than 100 professional women's footballers have signed an open letter urging FIFA to drop Aramco as a sponsor calling it a punch in the stomach to the sport. Manchester City striker Vivian Mirdemar is one of the signatories, the Netherlands International told the BBC Sport, I think it's footballers. Especially as women's footballers, we carry the responsibility to show the world and the next generation what is right.
I think this sponsorship is not right for what FIFA stands for, but also what we as women footballers stand for. FIFA always shouts that they want the game to be inclusive and they want the game to lead the way lead by example. So then make sure you align with sponsorships that are leading by example. FIFA told BBC Sport, it values its partnership with Aramco and stress that sponsorship revenues were reinvested in the women's game at all levels.
I wanted to put those comments across from Casparoude and from what Julie Murray said at the time back in 2022 because we realise that we don't have a diversity of opinion on this issue. We all feel very strongly in our stance on Saudi Arabia, but we also recognise that there are other stances. Personally I find them very difficult to get on board with particularly the kind of water battery argument put forward by Casparoude.
Yes, he's absolutely right. There are other very, very controversial countries and he's right to point to China. I personally and we all have said on the podcast we don't think the WTA and the ATP tours particularly the WTA tour should be in China at the moment with the ongoing situation with Punxwai.
We were very, very disappointed in Steve Simon's backtracking on that issue. Of course he's right about that, but Saudi Arabia was last year ranked as the world's most authoritarian regime by non-profit human rights organisation Freedom House. To say, oh well, other countries are bad as well and other countries are as oppressive is kind of to say, well there's no point in drawing a line anywhere because there is no line beyond Saudi Arabia according to many independent human rights organisation.
According to a human rights watch and amnesty international, there has been no significant improvement to Saudi Arabia's human rights record in the years since it began engaging on the global stage and introduced some policy reforms in 2018.
This notably, there has actually been an escalation in the crackdown on freedom of expression particularly online with long and even life sentences being handed out for social media posts, particularly those calling for an end to male guardianship laws which dictate that every woman in Saudi Arabia must have a male guardian who has the authority to make a range of critical decisions on her behalf, far from being scaled back actually in 2022.
Formerly enshrined male guardianship over women by passing a new personal status law, illegally reply requires women to obey their husbands upon marriage and homosexuality and the gender expression of trans people remains illegal and punishable by death in the country.
Not everybody collaborating with Saudi Arabia is the same. Judy Murray's aims by in going there, as she stated, there are and were laudable, billy-jinking truly believes in the power of engagement and the power of money to change things. There are laudable aims. Some people have more craven reasons for being there than others. Unfortunately, my view is that the outcome is the same.
The outcome is the legitimacy and validation for Saudi Arabia and confirmation for them that they don't need to improve their human rights record in order to have a seat at the table or even to host the dinner party which I think is the ultimate aim. Maybe some people are okay to live in a world where all that matters is money and all that speaks is money. I personally don't want to live in that world.
I also acknowledge, you know, just on the subject of Casparoude's comments, there is a difference between opting in and not opting out. Don't get me wrong, I would really celebrate it if anybody did opt out of playing the WTA Finals in ReAD in a couple of weeks in protest. But it is not the same as opting in to play an additional exhibition event in Saudi Arabia. That is not the same thing. Not all these things are the same.
There is also a distinction between events taking place in a state with questionable human rights and events being owned, staged and paid for by that state. The Six King Slam was staged by the Saudi General Entertainment Authority which is an arm of the state established by Royal Decree, just like the public investment fund PIF which sponsors the rankings on both the ATP and the WTA tours.
So that is where we stand. I speak for all of us on all of that. There are a number of different angles to this. There is David, the way the event was presented to us here in the UK and I think globally as well. It is such big business, isn't it? You wonder when you watch the coverage. Are you going to see or hear any dissenting voices, any coverage that isn't just cheerleading really of the tennis, the sporting action that is there.
This is not a ranking event. This was six people hand picked to come and it's free market. They can do that. They offered enough money. Those players all decided to go. This was an exhibition. I don't think anybody is pretending that it wasn't. Yannick Sinner when he won his first match from his due to face in a Vat. Jockovich said on court when it was being put to him, he's got this big match against Vat. Jockovich coming up, he said,
it doesn't really matter who wins. It's just that we just want to put on a good show is the gist of what he was saying. Now he did go and win the thing in the end and he took the lion share of the money and biggest paycheck. Any player has ever taken at a tennis tournament ever and he took it.
He's an even richer man than he was when he arrived. I think that that is something that astounds anybody I speak to when talking about the rights and wrongs of accepting these paychecks and going is people just can't understand why it makes any difference to people as rich as they are.
You're talking in the case of Raphael and the down and Novak Jockovich, people have won more than $100 million in their careers. I think Jockovich is around the 200 million mark. He certainly, it's incredible on court earnings and you can increase those massively with how much they've earned off court.
I think that that shocks people. Then it's a question of what is it you're actually watching and I watched a lot of the six king slam on Sky Sports, which is the rights holder for many of the tennis ranking events since they got the rights this year.
They also got the US open rights. They put a lot into it. They provide a very slick service generally. They provide studio coverage with well known faces and I think that they really, yeah, they provide a very comprehensive service that and they do that with a lot of sports and I really appreciate that as a viewer. They don't just take what we refer to as the world feed, which is a sort of tournament or league owned service that is put out and it's often very high quality in its own right.
They don't just pick that up and put it out, which is available to everybody. They're actually adding their own layer of production with their own pundits, their own commentators, their own presenter, their own video packages, all sorts of things around it. They do that in football and in cricket and in rugby and golf. I'm a big consumer of Sky Sports content and I enjoy an awful lot of it.
In this instance, I thought I could watch good three quarters of what was put out over those three days, not all of it. I was waiting for the moment that the subject of Saudi Arabia's human rights and all the talking points that you've raised there was discussed. I didn't hear any of that at all and that was a surprise to me and frankly it was a disappointment to me. I wondered whether I just missed it.
I did contact Sky Sports for comment because I felt as though in putting so much production around it and in covering an event that is so full of discussion of money and that being such a promoted element that really, you know, the viewer deserves to know that that isn't the full story. It isn't just a sort of a lovely opportunity where everybody can come together and earn lots of money and everybody can watch, although that is obviously part of it.
There is a lot more going on in that country and I think that that needed covering. So I contacted them, I haven't had any body say no, no, you've missed it. So I assume therefore I haven't and certainly talking to yourselves. I haven't learned anything that I missed. And in terms of the sort of curious about the sort of editorial policy, whether there is one, whether there is a sort of, you know, decision not to cover those sort of things given I haven't seen it here.
And given that the WTA finals in a couple of weeks time is to take place in the same city in Riyadh and and will be covered by Sky Sports, for instance. And I should say, you know, we're not talking just about sky here, the zone, I know carried the car of the pictures and the footage.
Mind us, I mean, they just took the world feed, which inevitably is going to be something that stays away from anything controversial or any of these sort of talking points, a world feed is the tournaments version of events. It's just here's the show, make it glitzy, make it fun, make it enjoyable, watch it.
So I didn't expect that to be that. So this is this I thought felt would might be different. Anyway, Sky replied to tell me that Sky News and Sky Sports News have reported extensively on the human rights issues in Saudi Arabia and other parts of the world and will continue to do so.
Sky Sports will continue to hold the powerful to account with our journalism and strive to be a force for good and using our platform. Most recently, the chair of the Saudi World Cup in football, the chair of their organizing committee was interviewed by Sky Sports News, where he was challenged on human rights, specifically the rights of LGBTQ fans who might want to attend.
And that this interview can be viewed right now on their website. Finally, they said the role of Sky Sports is to broadcast live sport and to allow our customers the choice of whether to watch. So they were trying to draw a line between what goes on Sky Sports in terms of coverage of the actual sport and what goes on on Sky News and Sky Sports News, which are different channels.
I would say that in presenting a sport of this type, particularly when it's an exhibition and when you have several hours of coverage, including studio coverage, it is incumbent on you to also make sure the viewer knows that it isn't the only story in town.
If there is another story to cover, and in my opinion, there was a story to cover. I just think generally the sports and I think sports plural are so embedded in the regime now because it's the biggest payer that it's getting a little too quiet in some areas in terms of
asking questions. And I think it's I don't have all the answers. I hear what you're saying about China, for instance, Catherine, and I think, you know, at some point you could get back to saying, well, how are these sports ever going to make any money or go anywhere?
Because where is the money? These are the people that are paying the money. And I do get these points. But I personally wouldn't be going to these two particular territories and find take less money. That's my kind of attitude to it. But if you are going to go, then you at least have to be asking the questions. If you are going to cover, you at least have to be talking about it.
Yeah, I mean, you did that fantastic interview with Billie Jean King last year at the Billie Jean King Cup and talked about the issue of Saudi and she explained why she is broadly and favor of engaging and taking the money. You know, Billie Jean King is a very devout capitalist and believes in the power of money to certainly assist in solving problems. And I, you know, it's difficult for us to disagree with Billie Jean King.
I think we all do on this one. But it's, you know, we're going to keep being confronted with this because the WTA finals are going to be in Riyadh in a couple of weeks time. And I think we're going to find that pretty tough to take. Yeah, for sure. I think the thing that always strikes me when I'm watching tennis in Saudi Arabia and actually to be fair, maybe this was the first time I've actually watched the tennis that is taking place in Saudi Arabia.
It's been extremely easy for me to ignore the next gen finals during the off season or the exhibition that you spoke about during the off season. I honestly haven't really engaged with it, but this time I sort of did a bit more because of the names involved and the fact that, you know, I knew we'd be talking about it on the podcast.
And also the fact that I knew that sky were covering and I thought, oh, good, maybe it's not going to be world feed, but as David's described it very much felt like a world feed, which was disappointing. But I think the thing that kept sort of coming back to me was that I'm watching this and I'm thinking tennis has a very big female fan base.
And tennis has a very big gay fan base, certainly sort of disproportionately so compared to other big sports. Certainly in this country that I could point to over 50% of our friends are the podcast. I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying our women and we have met an awful lot of, you know, members of the LGBTQ community who come to our live event. So there's a big market out there who are tennis fans.
And I just, I just feel like by going to Saudi Arabia for a glitzy event like this, all for the WTA finals, a showpiece event in a few weeks time.
It just feels like those communities are being let down by the sport because if you actually speak to women or a lot of gay people when they're watching these events and ask how they feel when they're watching it, I would say most of them would say uncomfortable and like at best, you know, speaking, speaking from my experience, there's actually quite a depressing feeling that comes over you when you're watching an event like this.
When you're watching a sport you love, if you're watching players you love in a country that you know wouldn't accept you or wouldn't treat you equally. That can be quite a triggering experience. That can bring up quite a lot of, quite a lot of shame that you've worked hard to deal with. So I'm feeling all those things. And then I get confronted on sky with an advert for the WTA finals in in a couple of weeks time.
And what song have they put over the promo of that advert? It's hot to go by Chapel Rhone. And Chapel Rhone is is a queer artist, a queer icon. And suddenly I'm thinking, hey, on a minute, they're using this song to promote an event where Chapel Rhone wouldn't be accepted for who she is. And it just felt to me like sort of pinkwashing in a way, which is kind of what happens when you use pride or you use a queer artist for your own sort of personal gain without actually engaging in the world.
And actually engaging in any kind of practice to ensure a sense of belonging. I'd watch this whole coverage telling me what a great place Saudi Arabia is and not even mentioning the human rights abuses. And then the goal to use the song to promote the WTA finals by Chapel Rhone, I just, well, I switched off at that stage. And you know, you can bet that sky or the WTA will, you know, be all over pride month in June next year.
And they'll turn their social media logos to the rainbow colours if we're lucky. And I'll just look back and remember how empty and vacuous those sort of gestures are when push comes to shove and the sport is taking big events to Saudi Arabia and not interrogating and doing what sky say they're doing on in other parts, which they absolutely are. They are absolutely doing journalism on other channels and on their website. But where was the journalism here? There wasn't any.
So yeah, that's kind of how I ended up feeling this week watching the tennis. And no doubt we'll be feeling very similar in a couple of weeks time when the WTA finals come along. Failing to criticize human rights abuses creates an atmosphere that empowers authoritarian rulers to deny civil rights to their own people, that a quote by Jamal Kushotji. The US based Saudi journalists who were strangled and dismembered by agents of the Saudi regime in 2018.
That is it for Patsy. We'll be back in part three. Hi, I'm Raj Punjabi from Huff Post. And I'm Noah Michelson also from Huff Post. And we're the hosts of Am I doing it wrong? A new podcast that explores the all two human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right. Each week on the podcast Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
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Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast where we are going to talk about a few bits and bobs of news that have dropped over the past few days. Just before we get into all of that, a promo for the latest edition of tennis relived that we recorded at the end of last week looking back on the life and career of Vitas Gerolitis,
the Australian Open Champion, the sort of the glue that held together, Bjorn Borg, John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors and many, many others who tragically died very prematurely in 1994 at the age of 40 for the show David interviewed Mary Carrillo and John McEnroe childhood friends of Vitas Gerolitis who had some absolutely extraordinary stories to tell about him. Here is just a little flavor of what they had to say.
Vitas was everyone's idol. Years ago I worked on an HBO documentary on Bjorn and John McEnroe, Fire and Ice. I think you've seen it. It's a good doc. There is a whole part that we had played out about how both Bjorn and McEnroe idolized Vitas. I mean, here are these two great, all-time, great players and they both wanted to be like Vitas. Both their whole manner changes when they talk about Vitas because of how special he was.
I got invited to stuff. I had no business going to him. We had this one pre-wimble in dinner at some fancy joint and it was John and Bjorn and Vitas and Ruta and me and some other people and Vitas always picked up the check. You couldn't pick one up. Here is John and Bjorn who have many millions more dollars but it was always Vitas and grabbing it. As we were walking to our table, somebody from another table. Here is John and Bjorn and Vitas.
And somebody said, hey Vitas, good luck at Wimble then. So as we haven't even gotten to our table yet and Vitas says to the waiter, I'm picking up that table's check too. Are you getting the measure of the man? He was like the greatest guy friend you could ever have. He had Card Blanche at like Studio 54 which is probably the toughest place in the world to get into at that time.
You know, everywhere he went, he used charisma and he just had an aura and a vibe about him that was just brought people in and he just, he knew it and he enjoyed it and he deserved it. I was lucky enough to win seven Grand Slam singles titles. If I ever would give one back and put it in his tombstone or grave, it would be to give it to him because I felt like he met her in a lot of ways and it was awkward having to play him in the finals of the USO.
I felt my first Grand Slam title so that was sort of a bummer but I remember after the match we're in the locker room and he says to me he comes up to me and he says, what are you doing later? And I thought to myself, whatever he's doing is going to be a whole lot better with what I'm going to be doing. And just the mere fact that he asked, you know, after losing in the finals was amazing.
I wish it met him, John, but the second best thing is to talk to the people that did know him. So thank you very much for your time. And that is certainly something that comes across the emotion in John McEnroe's voice when he talks about Vita's Carolitis is not something I've ever really heard before, quite frankly.
It's a really special show. It's up now and available to listen to for friends of the tennis podcast. And if you would like to become a friend, then as always the link to do that is in our show notes. Now speaking of reliving things put Danielle Collins relived on ice folks. She is not retiring. She's on the United Cup entry list. I think she's expected to play the Australian open as well and beyond if we are correct in what we read into the statement that she made on social media.
She said the animal story has not reached its conclusion. I will be back on tour in 2025. She said dealing with endometriosis and fertility is a massive challenge for many women. And something that I'm actively traversing, but I'm fully confident in the team I'm working with. It's just going to take longer than I thought.
We were shocked by this news when it dropped in terms of the United Cup entry list. We had a bit of tip off so we were able to prepare for that news dropping only a few hours worth of tip off, but we were really, really from it. And I kind of reeled even more Matt once I once I read that Instagram post from from Danielle Collins. I was expecting a kind of God, I just I had such a great year. I love tennis so much. I'm not ready to leave yet, but it sounds a lot more.
Very much more complicated than that. And I think a lot of people were taken back by this news because she'd been very adamant that that she was retiring and had, you know, sort of asked not to be asked about the fact that that she was retiring.
But it left me a little bit sad in a way like I do think that I really believe Daniel Collins when she said she was ready to move on from tennis and when she said that she wanted to start a family and and sort of live a different life to the one she's living. I felt like she was pretty sure about that. But as she said there, her, yeah, just a sort of circumstances have changed and, you know, it strikes me that this isn't really what she wants to be doing.
You know, she would she would like to finish by now, but because of the sort of health issues that she's got, she's she's decided that the best thing to do is is to carry on and, you know, selfishly I'm pleased. Because I love watching Daniel Collins play tennis and I think we all felt like we would want to watch her keep playing for more years. It felt like she was pretty much in the prime of her career. So the fact that we might get some more excellent back hands on a backhand list level.
It leaves me in a in a right predicament because I was sort of banking on on on her on her no longer being on the backhand list after this year. You'd already filled her soon to be vacant slot. So, you know, I've got I've got some work to do there. But if we can see some more back hands and we can see some more come on. Like I'm absolutely here for that. She's she's a fascinating compelling character to have in the sport.
So I'm pleased on that level. But I think you know, she's she's talking there about some some issues that she deals with and a lot of women deal with in terms of fertility issues. Like that's going to be hard for her to come to terms with. And I think I think the tour needs to you know, just be just be sort of kind to Daniel Collins. Don't like say you went back on your word. Why are you here kind of thing like she's she's explained there her circumstances.
And yeah, like so I feel for her because I do think this this wasn't what she was planning. But hopefully she can sort of make the best of it and who knows maybe have a maybe have a similar the impressive season to the ones you had this year. Yeah, here here. Incidentally no Carlos Alcarrasianic center or Novak Djokovic at the United Cup this time around. They've got a really good field on the women's side.
It's slightly weaker on the men that you know, there's good good players there Taylor Fritz leading the line for for team USA Alex to the North, Team Australia. But in terms of the those very top top guys none of them scheduled to play. Ega Shiontech, a couple of weeks ago, it was a hot topic of conversation her split from a long time coach with whom she had a lot of success. And she was with Karofsky. She has announced and unveiled her new coach. It is it's the very obvious choice, isn't it?
It is whim for set one of the most sort of celebrated and decorated coaches in in tennis, particularly women's tennis of the past decade, probably the most decorated of coaches that were, you know, on the bench and available to be picked. And then she plays to six grand slams worked with Kim Clistes, which were as a rinker, Angelique Kerber, Junqin Wen and most recently Nomeo Sarka. Yeah, on one hand, my reaction to David is sort of well, of course.
On the other hand, I'm almost surprised that it's not someone more surprising. So I might be as well because I sometimes wonder whether there's a certain type of player that fits a certain type of coach. And I'm not exactly sure that I expected it to be Ega Shiontech with whim for set. But actually, I wonder whether that might really work quite well.
I remember when one player that wasn't listed there worked with whim for set and that was your Hannah Conner, who was making major strides in her game and whim for set came on her team. And I always remember the way he administered his on court coaching when they play when they used to come on the court and you'd hear all the exchanges. And that was a point where I was commentating for BT Sports. And I was used to think, here's a player in Conner who is pretty tightly wound on the tennis court.
When everything's working really well, she's in great fetal. But you feel like she's sailing very close to the edge a lot of the time. And it could sort of spirited out of control, sort of tailspin if she gets too stressed. And I've voiced that a lot of times about Ega Shiontech in the past. And I just felt that he had a really very calming manner as well as being no doubt being a very good tactician and all the rest of the things.
I do think you have to ask some questions over how it went with Naomi Osakuro over the last year. It didn't go great. Really, really. So we'll have to see, I don't think he's an automatic, but who is? You know, that some people mesh, some people don't. I just, I wonder whether that actually might be a good fit. It sort of seems to me that it might be. Gonna be interesting seeing her rock up at the WCA Finals.
Not as the World No. 1. I really saboteleink a back at number one today with a new coach in tow. And that's a very odd situation. What's happened with saboteleink becoming the World No. 1 today. Like I don't know about you. That was not on my radar at all. These were not points dropping off from last year. They weren't like defending points or anything. The WCA actually had to put an explainer article on their website as to why Sabalanka has become the World No. 1.
It just wasn't on people's radar. And it's because of, quote, continuing year end adjustments for falling short of certain tournament quotas. So they basically both lost points because they've not played the amount of mandatory tournaments that they have to play now. It's up to 20 now this year compared to 12 in previous years. But Sabalanka has dropped fewer points than Chvionte.
It's a really unsatisfactory way for someone to become World No. 1. I know it's kind of a quirk of having a ranking system which is never going to be absolutely perfect. But I think it does point to what a lot of players have been talking about in this addition of more mandatory events is kind of problematic for them. And this is another sort of way that it's a bit problematic. So yeah, Sabalanka starts her second stint as the World No. 1. She had eight weeks before.
In a way that no one really saw coming or was prepared for. I feel like Holgerunna needs to start putting explainers out for just sort of everything he does. He is back together with coach Lars Christiansen. Who wants to take this one, David? Well, he's not very well as a old Holgerunna recently. So yeah, whatever it takes to get yourself back going. I mean, I think he got handily beaten in this exhibition last week. For which he got paid handsomely and seemed to be having the loveliest time.
But yes, he's managed to get himself part of a lot of big moments that are frankly nothing to do with his own real tennis career. It seems to me over the last six or eight months. But is the highlight of Holgerunna's 2024 being on court for Andy Murray's retirement ceremony? Definitely up there. I'd have thought. I mean, look, he hasn't been very good this year. And he's, we talked about where is Karen Hatchinov based compared to where maybe we thought he might have been in 2018.
Well, Holgerunna is nowhere near what I would have thought he would have been compared to just under two years ago. When he beat Novak Djokovic playing Djokovic in type tennis in Paris and just looked fantastic. And I remember going into that next Australian open. And I thought we were about to witness the next guy to be right there right now with Al Krasnson. I thought we were talking about a player of that level and I still think the guy has got immense skill and talent.
But he's nowhere near that. He's nowhere near. And it's, and maybe that maybe the successes were the anomaly and he's not as good as I thought anyway. But he certainly not doing as well as he thought he'd be doing. And he's not going to be there for that. And so, yeah, new things are required. So maybe Lars Kristinson's going to be the key. Who knows? Good luck Lars. Tournament this week.
The WTA is in Tokyo for a 500 level of engine when they were Fernandez, Danish Schneider, and he was going to play there, being Crandrescu, Beatrice Adage, Maya, Namiya Sarka was due to play. She withdrew last week as also as she withdrew from Sarka last week and is also out of Tokyo this week and out of the Billie Jean King Cup. She's such a shame. She said, I thought I'd strange my back, but I didn't MRI and Beijing.
And they said that I bulged a disk in my back and I also ruptured abdominals, which doesn't sound great to me. There's also WTA 250 event in Guangzhou, Catrinia Cinear, and Marie Boscova. Are the top two C's, Matt, did you see the cryptic post from Cinear, on Instagram this week? I did not. It was very, very cryptic, but it's made me concerned about... Oh, that's... Well, it would be a next... Yes. She posted something about, you know, people prioritising other people they care about.
It could have been about... I can tell you how a culture sources it is. A friend or family member, yeah. Yeah. It's an extra plot twist for a film script potentially. The ATP is in Vienna, where the main headline for the tournament is that it is Dominic Teams last ever tournament. He plays Luciano Darderi in Round 1. Some more really sad quotes coming out of Dominic Teams this week about, you know, how he thought winning a Grand Slam would change his life. And actually it didn't...
Oh, I just feel so sad about it all. Other round, while matches include Kaynish Gourig and Jack Draper, Frances Ciafo, against Cameron Norrie, Tommy Paul, down to play Vienna. And I expect he will play because he's on the hunt for that ATP Final spot. He plays Brandon Akashima, as very often Dominor at the top seeds. And the ATP is also in Basel this week, also a 500 event. And the Ruder, the top two seeds, both of them, desperate for points to secure ATP Finals qualification.
You got Chillic Tobilo, Manorina Rinka, Sittapassa Rundelo, Jerry Runa, and Shang, Shapa Valov, as round ones in Basel, Fiesenberg, Orgelia Seymour, all in the draw, Aziz Ben Shelton, Fresh from Victory in his ultimate tennis showdown event, which also took place this week. And that's a lot for this week on the tennis podcast, except to tell you about Bianca. Bianca is owned by Mike Clary. Bianca is a black and tan, Kuhn Hound, born August 19, 2022 in Portland, Oregon.
She arrived in Calgary in late October, 2022. She loves being around people, loves her daily off leash run, and enjoys rowdy play sessions with any dog called Indolcha. She's a great traveler, and comes with Mike regularly to the Southern California to break up the winter. I want Bianca's life. That sounds great. She's absolutely gorgeous. I don't know Kuhn Hounds. Kuhn Hounds are new on me. So I've been introduced not only to Bianca today, but Bianca's whole species.
So thanks for that, Mike. She's very handsome, isn't she? And I do like that orange, orange collis she's wearing, which matches the flora and fauna in the background of the photo. That's great attention to detail. So hello to Bianca and to Mike, and thank you very much. Hello to our mascots, of course, the dearly departed Darwin at Francis and Heider and Soma, Matt's cats. Hello to, well, hello, Billie Jean. She's at my feet. Billie Jean, you are sponsored by Billie Jean King and Alana Klos.
Well done, you. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris, Jamie and Jeff and Matt, let's have some shout outs. We start with Jasper Vanden Driesha. Hello Jasper. Oh, I'm thinking of Jesper De Jong, but that's not the same, is it? There's definitely a tennis Jasper on the tip of my tongue. Keep talking, Matt. Jasper. Jasper is from a small town close to Bruges in Belgium. And Jasper says, my favourite tennis player growing up was Elena Dementieva.
She had a similar game to mine, decent ground strokes, somewhat unorthodox net play and an unreliable second serve. Which is a correct description of Elena Dementieva's second serve. But I would say her ground stroke is for better than decent. I've googled tennis Jasper and is giving me Jesper De Jong. Hi, I'm a great guy. Yes, Jesper De Jong and Jasper Richardson, the new captain of the Glossesha Men's tennis team.
Good news. Would Jesper De Jong be potentially part of the breaking Nidal and Spanish hearts at the Davis Cup? Well, Jasper, you are unique, apart from the captain of the Men's Glossesha Tennis team. It's a good name, Jasper. It's just not a tennis name, apparently. Except for you, Jasper. Thank you very much. We've also got Catherine, Jas Catherine, same church, different pew with a K. Just Catherine. What a rock star. Hello, Catherine. Catherine from Nashville. Okay.
This Catherine, you'll love this. I love this. Catherine says, Fan and Weird fact, my high school locker is featured prominently in one of Taylor Swift's first music videos, Teared Rops on My Guitar. Wow. Not just high school. Oh, that's her locker. Even though I think that's cool. That's fantastic. What a claim to fame. Oh, you don't need a tennis. You don't need a tennis link if you've got that. You set for life. Oh. Um, Kathwell. Well, save your tennis Catherine's.
What I want to do for this shout out is say that Catherine would like to dedicate her shout out to two of her close friends, Madeline and Melissa. They know each other from law school and they've remained close because of their love for tennis and the pod. So hello also to Madeline and Melissa. Oh, that's her name. Consider it done, Catherine. Hello, Madeline. Hello, Melissa. And finally, we have Catherine Duffy, same church, same pew. Same church. We know Catherine Duffy.
Catherine Duffy is a very prominent member of the barge. And in fact, started the barge book club. Hey. So that's great. Yeah, you're on my pew, Catherine. Um, Catherine's excellent. If you'd like to see her her excellent post on the barge, then become a friend of the tennis broadcasts. There you go. Hello, Catherine. And thank you for your enduring support enough for the pod. Yeah, we really appreciate it. And that's it for this week in tennis. We'll be back next Monday to I'll shock you.
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