Rome - Sinner returns, Swiatek struggles and the rest search for form

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Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast on this fine Monday morning. We are midway through the Rome combined 1000 event. We've had a fun few days of tennis. We've had a new Pope announced. News of that rung out around the Foro Italico. And he's a tennis fan, David. Always good news. In fact, that really was quite a turn up to me to find out that he was a tennis fan. And I'm absolutely delighted. Quite enjoyed Rome so far.

The usual very snail-like slow start. And then everything's happening and it's all too much. And now it's all going to slow down and eventually it'll get exciting by the weekend. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good assessment of how the first few days in Rome have been. I have to say, it wasn't specifically a surprise to me that the new Pope is a tennis fan. It was a surprise to me that Pope... or prospective popes sort of

were allowed to have any interests aside from God. I thought it was sort of religion, you know, no space for Carlos Alcaraz with all the worshipping going on. But he's a tennis fan, he's a Swifty. He's our kind of guy, Matt Roberts. How are you doing? Yeah, he's been tweeting back at JD Vance. He is our kind of guy. Who finished off the last pope. Yes, that's true, actually. Any pope should be worried about J.D. Vance. Matt, are you recovered from our golf yesterday?

What was there to recover from? We had a great time. It was a lovely day. My hands say there's something to recover from. I am covered in blisters. Yeah. Well, stop being a golfer. Yeah, my Caspar Rood journey continues because now I understand how hard golf is. Maybe I've got a newfound respect for him on that front as well. Folks, we have... a lot to talk about uh before we get into it

a big announcement from us. A week ago, we put tickets on sale for our live show in London, Shoreditch Town Hall, Thursday, June the 26th. That's Thursday. before Wimbledon, far bigger venue than our London live show last year. We were excited but nervous about that and you have done us so incredibly proud. And we have sold out that venue, which is... Pretty crazy, really, and very, very exciting. So I spoke to them and I said, we need a bigger boat, folks.

And they have a balcony area that Matt and I have stood on. It's a lovely balcony and they are going to open that up for us for the night of Thursday the 26th of June. So we are able to put more tickets. on sale the link is in our show notes it's on our instagram it'll be everywhere in our newsletter you won't be able to avoid it And we would love to see you on June the 26th. Come and join the other 500 people that have already bought their tickets. It's going to be an awesome time.

Please confirm the view from the balcony is a resplendent one. It's stunning. Yeah, really nice view. Some people might just prefer to sit up there. Anyway, so great to have that option available. No bad secrets. at Tennis Podcast Live. Absolutely. Very well done, Matt. You're such a promo guy. Unless you're sitting behind me. It is about you. But I'm on the stage, so it's okay.

I've just remembered the sigh I heard being released from the people behind us when we sat down at Hamilton in New York. They rearranged as a family. You're probably used to, you probably don't notice that sigh anymore, David. No. You're used to tuning it out. It's weird if it doesn't come. If it's John Isner sat behind me and there's no sigh. I'm a bit perturbed. It was so funny. Yes, don't worry. David and Laura will be on stage, so no such issues.

can't guarantee the heights of other people in the audience but no specific David Law issues at our live show June the 26th Thursday before Wimbledon, Shoreditch Town Hall. It's going to be awesome. So come and join us if you can. Right.

We should turn our attention to Rome and the Foro Italico. And we can hear now from someone that's been on the ground covering things. from the front row. That is Matt Fotterman of The Athletic. He's been doing some incredible work, written some really brilliant pieces on The Athletic from Rome. And he's done us one of his... his iconic I think they are becoming iconic actually I love a Matt Futterman voice note so let's hear his latest right now from Rome

So, just a quiet week in Rome. Not much doing in the Italian capital these days, right? Sometimes you travel across the world and life is quiet and all the players do what they are supposed to do and you wonder why you bother to come. And then sometimes you parachute into a city and world events unfold around you. Or at least that's what it feels like.

So, where to start? Probably with the return of that normal 23-year-old guy named Yannick Sinner. Don't worry, Pope Leo. I know you're listening. I'm going to get to you eventually. Sitting in a room with Sinner for the first time in months, my mind kept drifting to how tan he looked. I don't ever remember him seeing that way.

I always think of him as a kind of pasty redhead. And here he was, strolling into press, looking like the weight of the world that lifted from his shoulders. And he was really tan and really relaxed. He even broke some news for us. He hadn't wanted to accept that plea deal and he's not dating the Russian model.

His tennis was a little loose in that opening match. I didn't see much cause for concern, though. My lord, those backhands on the run that laser over the net post and hit the postage stamps are something else. Seriously, his return completely altered the feel of the tournament and the energy of the competition. It reminded me of those times back in school when your teacher goes on medical leave or maternity leave or something like that.

And you learn nothing and slack off for a couple of months. And then she comes back and it's all back to business. You have to study again for that class. Tests are coming. Things get serious again. but it gets you excited in a perfect way. And that's how the other players are talking. Let's hope he sticks around. He's good for business

Iga Sviantec is usually good for business too, but I'm really not sure this business is good for her. I won't soon forget Iga's loss. Actually, I won't soon forget Iga's reaction to her loss after Daniel Collins beat her. Judging from her on-court demeanor, which was way better than the tears of Madrid, I thought she was in a different place.

Then she nearly took four hours before coming to chat with us, and she nearly took our heads off when she spoke. I'm sure it sucks to be in a slump, especially with Roland Garros coming up. But Rafa won the French 14 times and Rome 10 and Madrid 5. One doesn't necessarily require the other.

Iga can feel a certain way when she shows up at that Grand Slam. It just might happen. It happened for Rafa. It happens for Novak all the time. And Iga, if she keeps up the way she keeps up, she could be in their class. Iga's tennis isn't great right now. The serve seems so vulnerable against really good players, especially when you're watching it in person. You see how they can jump

But the real problem seems to be from the neck up. If she's going to have a long career, slumps and losses can't feel the way they look like they feel right now. It just looks so unhealthy. Now, I don't know if it's going to happen again for Naomi Osaka, but God, I loved watching her grind to make it so. She credited Patrick Mortago for pushing her to go to San Malo, a move everyone in that proverbial locker room noticed and was buzzing about.

Moritogu gets a hard time from a lot of people, but he's got Nosaka competing again, and she's winning matches she was losing a year ago. Who knows where it leads, but props to both of them for getting it to where it is and where her head is. Now, if you want to pick me up, there was Bianca Andreescu literally bursting with gratitude. She swears she's healthy. She swears she's where she wants to be. Stay, Bianca. Please stay. And stay just like this. Because the energy is absolutely infected.

And there was Victoria Mboko, 18 years old, braces still on her teeth, eyes that light up the room, and a backhand that is going to get on a certain list before too long, I think. Her parents are war refugees from the Congo. Many of her close relatives still live there. Can you imagine what she could do for this sport if she can win some matches and win some tournaments? My lord. It's going to take time. All of this probably will.

The thing my mind kept coming back to in Rome was that tennis itself is a clay court match. It's long and hard with lead changes and often a little slow to deliver a clear conclusion. It requires faith. I was writing in the media room Thursday when a particular roar rose from outside. I thought it could only mean one thing.

I will always regret not grabbing an Uber cycle for the two-mile ride from the Foro Italico down to St. Peter's Square. But I also wouldn't have wanted to miss the gas from the Italian reporter sitting next to me when Robert Francis Prevost's name was announced. The American, he yelled. No one could believe it. And then there he was, Pope Leo, taking it all in and unable to speak.

I'd been getting almost nowhere all week on a story about the Vatican's beautiful red clay tennis court that somehow even the higher-ups at Italy's Tennis Federation knew almost nothing about. They didn't think it even existed. I showed them a picture. It's there. Really. Rafa would have loved it too. There's extra room in the back of the ad court for his forehands because the fence at the back of that side of the court, it goes out diagonally along the Vatican wall.

Maybe Popolio's a lefty and he can take advantage of it too. Within minutes my phone lit up with word that the Pope Leo is actually a tennis guy divine intervention Don't worry, Mom and Dad, I'm not converting. But what a joy it is to know that this seemingly humble man might finish a stressful day by taking his racket out of the closet and grabbing a bucket of balls and walking down the street to hit some serves and contemplate some big thoughts.

My two cents, populio, go all in. It's your court. Manage it like our late president Jimmy Carter did at the White House. All sign-ups go through you. As I said, my big takeaway from this week in Rome, tennis is a game of faith. Or maybe faith is a game of tennis. Now there's a subject for a Middle Sunday homily. The Pope is a tennis guy. God, I love him. Well, thank you, Matt. That was absolutely awesome.

there's just a hint of the carrillo's isn't there about a matt fotman voice note and oh my word he's having a day isn't he he's being called iconic compared to mary carrillo I think it was fantastic. That was brilliant. No, it was really superb. But I'm telling you, he is going to be feeling like a king right now. Yeah, I chose my words wisely. And folks, that story about the tennis court in the Vatican, Matt has written that and there is photo evidence in there.

I couldn't, I could not believe it, that there's a tennis court in there. I mean, I thought, I didn't realise there was space. What else have they got in?

Anyway, I've talked far more about the Pope than I thought I was going to. Should we start with Yannick Sinner's return? because that has been the big story and you know even though it's kind of done now the return was you know was one match is his 6-3, 6-4 victory over Mariano Navone. It does feel like that's going to be the story of this tournament as it goes along. So he's beaten Mariano Navone, now faces...

Yes, but a young. As Matt hinted at there, he did his pre-tournament press conference where he swaggers in looking incredibly tanned. It is confusing to me because I would have thought there is no more... No more way of life conducive to tanning than playing professional tennis. So how has ceasing to play professional tennis for three months? led to him getting more tanned. I'm confused by that. But anyway, his swag is in, looking incredibly tanned, makes an announcement about his love life.

You know, gives this incredibly relaxed press conference, takes to the court on Saturday night in Rome in the Foro Italico, just this extraordinary atmosphere. feverish anticipation and He plays pretty well. 7 out of 10, I would say, for Yannick Senna. If you didn't know that all this had been going on for the past few months, you would have just said, yeah, pretty good first round. first round performance at a 1000. But there's so much more to it than that, David.

Yes, there is. I mean, for a start, I thought he was still with Anacal and Skye, so where have I been? I mean, I don't know which internet accounts I'm supposed to be following that I'm not, but anyway. I got my news through Matt Futterman who'd thought it on a voice note. I mean you didn't explicitly say he's Not, or did he? He explicitly said, I'm single. Yeah, his big comeback started with an announcement that he's single, which is...

Yeah, quite a flex. That sweaty moment in the US Open player box will be a sight. Yeah, that's very Andy Roddick and Mandy Moore. 2004, 2003. Yeah, there had been rumours, David, that he had been pictured with this Russian model who had been at Monte Carlo. But she's been put in her place. Indeed. Okay, here's tennis. Yes, you asked me about that.

Yes, look, it was fine, wasn't it? It was more than enough, and I think more than you would probably expect from somebody who's had a layoff of that long. I still think that there were... Signs of what I expected might be the case that he might look a little bit as if his legs didn't belong to him in certain points. And I think maybe the biggest telltale of the...

of the time off was his failure to convert break points. There were a lot of those. I don't have the exact numbers and have the evidence to compare to him when he's matched tight. It just felt like there were some points where, oh no, he just finishes that point and breaks and goes and wins the match right here. And things became a little bit of a drama when he's the most un...

dramatic player around in terms of converting breakpoints. Usually he's just Mr. Efficiency. So there were things like that. But there was also, I felt, because there was such an ovation for him and such a sort of initial... welcoming to him. I think he really loved He looked really, I think, reassured by that and actually just quite...

Free, I suspect, and it ties with what he said, that he's really missed the sport. I know it's only three months, but still, it's his sport, and he's at the top of it, and he can't play it. So I think he looked really happy to be back. It was quite a muted crowd along the way as the match went on, I felt. I felt that they were a bit anxious even because he wasn't quite as solid as he normally is. well we'll see how he goes along but that was a good enough start Mm.

He strides out onto that Campo Centrale in his all-black outfit with his... with his tan, just a, I don't know, did I detect a little glimmer of darkness in his eyes, Matt? I was hearing Johnny Cash in my ears. It was really giving, hello, I'm Johnny Cash. And I don't know, I found it...

I found it kind of cinematic on Saturday night in a way that I wasn't really expecting to. I was expecting there to be an initial rush and then it just to be a... fairly routine boring tennis match but I did I felt the crackle in the atmosphere and I I don't know I maybe I was overlaying um I was projecting um

onto Yannick Senna, but I thought, oh, is he leaning into the darkness a little bit of being the guy coming back from a drugs ban? But no, he said, I always wear black in Rome and very much. Lent away from it, but there was a crackle wasn't there and there was you know, distantly the sound of Folsom Prison Blues. ringing around the place yeah and I was all ready to go with the whole...

Darth Sinner thing in his all black coming back as leaning into the villain and then he said what he said about how he likes to wear black in Rome and he'd worn all black in Rome a couple of years ago if you remember I actually didn't And there was a real crackle in the atmosphere because it was also scheduled at the same time as Lazio playing

in the Olympic Stadium, which is, you know, on the same site right next to the courts. And there were these incredible images of the football fans pouring into the stadium. And like seeing Sinner practice, warming up for his match and chanting his name. And it did just feel like... People were just descending on that place kind of for Yannick Sinner. It really did feel like... And I was struck by the fact that, yes, there's this spotlight because it's him coming back.

But actually, I think the really, really tough period for him is behind him, isn't it? And in that period, he's still won two Grand Slam tournaments. You know, he looks a lot more stressed. while he was winning those than he did coming back. I thought, I agree, the tennis wasn't. Wasn't, you know, his 100% to use the sort of language that tennis players would use. His first serve percentage. And traitors. His first serve percentage was.

was quite low by his standards there were quite a few errors off the forehand side but I thought Navone, who was a good clay quarter, played well and he lost quite easily. And that's what Yannick Sinner does. You know, you can play well against him and lose in straight sets because because he's that good, because his ceiling is so high and his floor is high as well.

And I think Matt Futterman has really hit the nail on the head there in terms of how it just feels like it changes the energy of the ATP tour. It's like, OK, the best player in the world is back now. I read a lot about tennis in the past. In my research for Tennis Relive, for example, where, like, the best player in the world would suddenly go off and become a pro, and suddenly they wouldn't be at these tournaments, and it would feel like these tournaments are just slightly lost.

something and obviously the circumstances here are very very different and you know players get injured sometimes but tennis has felt a bit odd to me over the past three months without the best player in the world you know we've had some incredible moments for some players, some real breakthroughs, Jack Draper and Jakub Mensik, and I don't want to take anything away from them.

but I have had in the back of my mind the whole time, would that have happened if Yannick Sinner were playing? Because he's proved himself to be the best player in such a... such a proficient winner on the tour that I have to think that he probably would have won some of those titles that have gone to other people. So I'm just, I'm just pleased personally that, you know, the field is full again and Sinnoh is back.

and let's see him come up against Draper, who's made strides over the last few months, and Mensik and Al Karaz, of course. I'm excited about the summer we've got ahead of us now. with Sinner back in the fold. He's served his time as far as I'm concerned and he's back and that's good news I think. Absolutely, same. Keep wearing black. Yannick, I like it.

I also get the feeling, David, that I mean, look, a lot of players have very publicly stated they're pleased to see Yannick Sinabaki seems to have been welcomed pretty warmly back by the locker room. But I think Carlos Alcaraz is... is really reassured to have Yannick Sinner back. I think he felt his absence. He's very acutely aware of it. the two of them together being greater than the sum of their parts. And I think he really felt his absence over the past three months.

and is very happy to have Yannick Sinner back. And I felt like there was evidence of that in our crisis. First match over Dusan Lajevic. Less of it last night against Laszlo Gerrard. which was a more antsy Carlos Alcaraz performance. And I don't really have an explanation for that because I was so reassured by the Carlos Alcaraz that we saw in his first match against...

She comes out with a knee sleeve that is actually protecting his hamstring, which is what kept him out of Madrid. So it's a knee sleeve that sort of starts mid-calf and ascends all the way up to the... well, underpant area. And he's also wearing a nose strip. Now we've seen nose strip Alcaraz before and we've seen sleeve Alcaraz before, but we've never seen him look quite so much like a kind of...

badly cobbled together Mr Potato Head. But the tennis that he played against Dusan Lajevic I thought was incredibly convincing. And the way he was talking after that victory was incredibly convincing as well. He was clearly buoyed. by that performance. I don't know, I wasn't expecting the return of Ansi Alcaraz that we saw last night against Gerrard, but then that's who he is, isn't he? He's an ups and downs guy, David. He is. I don't think he likes playing late at night.

If you look at his losses at the US Open and Australian Open. He's had a lot of night session losses. And the moment he sat down after the third game yesterday, he was complaining to the umpire. I can't remember quite what the nature of his complaint was. I think it might have been something to do with the towels or something like that. I'm just thinking, why are you thinking about that? Why are you getting so worked up about that?

I know he's Spanish and all the rest of it. Maybe he's an early Tibet guy. Maybe he doesn't want to wait around for match after match to go on and then eventually you get on court. He likes the sun on his back. I do think it's quite interesting and something to keep an eye on. In terms of his initial win over Lajevic and the point you make about Sinner, there's a lot of...

Examples over the years of players not feeling whole without their rival around. John McEnroe was never the same when Bjornborg retired. Chris Everton, Martina Navratilova, look at them today. Look how close they are. They've played each other over 70 times, I think it was.

Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer. The list just keeps going on. Even Sampras and Agassi had a much more kind of odd couple relationship they were so different and they had some really uncomfortable moments but actually they as rivals they still wanted each other around they're still i think the things that they value the most in their career

are the experience of playing each other, the frisson they created between them and then hopefully getting the win, the ultimate challenge. And yeah, I do think Alcaraz will feel more comfortable. having him around in that in that way um and also i think it It's somebody to shoot at. It's like a pacemaker in a 1500-meter race. You've got somebody there that you can stay on the shoulder of and then hopefully burst out and win on the home strike against.

yeah it's it's been a really discombobulating period of tennis I know it's really important that the sport has stringent anti-doping protocols in place that everybody can trust but at the same time losing a world number one like that And all the doubts and this talk around it has been not a nice place to be, really, if you care about the sport as well.

Yeah. Yeah, I can't relate to what Outcrys is going through in terms of Not having his greatest rival around, but I can relate to the day he went through yesterday where he seemed to schedule his whole day around the fact that his football team were playing Real Madrid. So he came to site really early to get his practice in. Then he wanted to watch the Classico and then they lost. He has to come out and play a match after his football team's lost.

And as David said, night session. I've had a bit of an Alcaraz night session theory going over the past couple of years as well. I think he was just a bit unsettled by the whole day yesterday. And it was a weird match as well because Gerard was... was a bit injured, wasn't he? Yeah, the whole thing was just a little bit odd and quite low quality, but I was a lot more encouraged by his first performance and how much he'd said he'd benefited from having a break.

He talked both mentally and physically about how much that was important for him. Those comments were a bit of a tough scene for Madrid, weren't they? He all but said, I'm pretty pleased that I got a bit injured because it gave me a chance to have some time off. Um, I've checked with Matt and he does have some nose strips. left over the

the unused nicholas jerry detritus i bought a pack of like 20. what was i thinking when was i going to need nose strips 20 times for nicholas jerry but alcaraz has come along Yeah. You only wear him if he wins a title, is that it? I don't have a policy. He's won one title in a nose strip. He won Rotterdam in a nose strip, didn't he? The bright pink nose strip. Yeah.

So, and Matt did the nose strip thing there. I think it might have been a one-time fit. Okay. I'm just trying to get you some money for those nose strips because Nicholas Jarry is outside the world top 100. Yeah, Jarry needs to... Well, get back in the top 100 would be a start, wouldn't it? Buck his ideas up. Um... so uh he's got karen hashinov now does carlos alcaraz uh few other notable things from the men's tournament so far

I'm going to give you a little moment here, David, to talk about Art of Feast. Oh, great. Came from a set down to be... Stephanos Tsitsipas yesterday, there was some agro. Greg Allensworth was involved. Matt, you missed it because you were playing golf with me. Can I have a moment to talk about him after David's had a moment to talk about? Yes, over to you two.

back and enjoy this i actually think both of those two individuals handle themselves impeccably in that scenario uh that's greg that's greg and arta yes i i do Okay, so how did Stefanos handle himself? Not particularly well, I didn't think. I mean, look, bless him, I don't think he was trying to cause any harm. I think he just missed, he was at pains to...

try to explain to Artifice that he did not intend to hurt him when he hit a backhand at his head, or hit it on the shoulder in the end. It wasn't a particularly vicious backhand, it was a rolled backhand. Feast turned away and Tsitsipas was apologising really quite extravagantly. He clearly wanted him to know he didn't intend to hurt him. And I think Feast had his back turned at that point and never really...

caught the apology. So then you had a set and a half of this going on, this match going on, going all the way on to face before at the net. I don't quite know what Sid Sabas was saying, but it seemed to be like he was trying to say I know you were pissed off with me for hitting you, but I didn't try to. And Fies was like, I wasn't pissed off. I just took it as fuel and went and bit your ass.

basically, is what he was politely saying. And then Greg Owensworth, seeing that this is getting more and more... kind of demonstrative because the thing is the crowd start making a lot of noise when they see a player two players having a chat and then nobody can hear it

So you can't tell whether it's really, really tense or not. It looks a bit tense, but that's because they're having to raise their voices to be heard. And then Greg Allensworth jumps out of his... chair and you think oh here we go I never really like it when umpires just try to separate something before they even had a chance to have a chat and fair play to him he just stood back and let them have the conversation

really and then there was one moment where he did try to sort of intervene because Sitsipas was getting really wound up it seemed like but generally you just let them sort it out amongst themselves and everybody went away more or less happy but I mean just on the subject of alcoholism i think the same applies to artifice in a different way and and

Alcras only starts playing good tennis when he's not antsy. And he hit one miracle tweener last night, suddenly cheered him up. And suddenly he's playing better. Whereas Art of Fees, was playing flat tennis in the first half, and Sitsipas was really, really good. I didn't realise Sitsipas has never beaten him before. It was 3-0 going into this match, but he really came out playing his brand of tennis, getting the forehand going. putting face off balance a lot and 6-2 is not a

and an unfair scoreline for City Pass. That was reflective of what I was watching. And really, he was in charge. second set as well, he went 3-2 up, so he's 6-2, 3-2 up, and I'd left the house by this point to go out with the family, really expecting Sitsapas to win this match, and The drive I took took 40 minutes. I got there and suddenly it's 6-2.

1-4 in favour of Artifees and I just cannot understand how this has turned around to this degree but I actually do trace it back to this body shot of Sidsapas because fired. face up it just gave him something to tap into he actually admitted it in his interview afterwards he said i needed something he says there was absolutely no problem with body daddy it's it's all in the game it's all fair it's all fine i'm not angry with them

But in the moment, I used it. I used it to get angry or to fire myself up. And I've seen him do this against Vero before. And suddenly he's... He's just a man inspired. And I mean, they were showing stats about his forehand and Colin Fleming and Nick Lester in the commentary box were just...

took their breath away with what they were seeing in terms of the speed on the forehand and the rotations on the thing. Nick Lester said his forehand is like a wrecking ball and that is what it became like. It's like... he suddenly just loses his mind in terms of going after the ball. And he's got the solidity now with the backhand too, that it's very difficult to know where to go against Artafez, whereas with Tsitsipas,

you just keep going to that backhand. And it's not terrible, but it's not as good as other players' backhands. And Feast is looking stronger by the day. As is Greg Allen's work. Yeah. Always rises to the occasion, doesn't he? It does. And I think David said it perfectly. He's just a drama magnet, Greg Allensworth. He just wanted a front row view. He just wanted to get in close so he could hear what was going on. He loves the drama. He just moved in so he could hear it. He let them have it out.

Well done, Greg. Yeah, really, really fun. The photos are amazing because Greg's just sort of standing in the back like a proud dad with his rosy cheeks. bulging, just like, oh, this is good, isn't it? They said, well then, guys. I've got a good view. So good. Okay. Who does... Oh, he plays Zverev next. Yeah, it's very interesting. I think he's now won more of their matches than lost. It's certainly won the last... I think or he's won two of the last three and

It's really interesting because Verev's scorelines have been very one-sided against not really very heralded names. I mean, he won his last one 6-4, 6-0. But even in that, he had his serve broken twice in the first set. And he just... I mean, look, he may be building towards something, and he probably needs to beat a guy like Feast now to just get that.

locker room power back a little bit you know because at the moment players really are going in thinking they've got a chance what's tending to happen is he handles the people he's supposed to handle who are really low level relatively speaking but then as soon as somebody stands up to them and isn't bothered by his game, his base game. he hasn't got another gear at the moment and and i mean i i i i do think face is probably the favorite i mean you you still can get complete mental

lapses from Feast, like that loss he had in Madrid when he was 5-1 up first, certainly lost to Comisano. You can still get that immaturity from him. He is coming, I mean, and he has never won a match at Roland Garros. He's lost two first rounds and... There's something different about him. I mean, I know I'm his biggest fan, and I am. I'm unashamedly a big Artifice fan, right? But he is different to all the other French players that I've seen in the last...

20 years in terms of how he carries himself and his ambition. He doesn't want to just entertain and be good. He wants to be great. You can see it. He was incredibly rude to an interviewer this week, a couple of days after his last win, wasn't he? He was really chippy about her. a valid question about how rough his form's been in the big tournaments since the Australian Open. And aside from that just being straight up rude, the fact that he got chippy about that.

suggests to me very frail confidence I know he keeps pointing at the fact that he won Munich but you know he knows that Munich ain't Ain't the size of title that he thinks he should be winning, or at least going deep in.

Yeah, I think I would probably have faced the slight favourite there as well. One last Frenchman to mention. Quarantan Moutet beat Holger Runa in a final set tie break in a match on the Pietrangeli court. Sensational scheduling. They're putting this one out on Pietrangeli, almost four hours long. How much of it did you watch, David?

I watched the climax. We actually had Vicky, who's part of our team, texting us with pictures of this match and descriptions and I was so jealous that I couldn't watch it. And then fortunately when I got back Mute is serving for the match And... I wouldn't say choked but tightened dramatically. He was doing the most extravagant grunts for

the gentlest of forehand drives because he was so nervous. They were going halfway up the court, you know, and Runa just steps in, saves the match points, breaks back, forces a tie break. goes three love up in the tie break and you're thinking, okay, Rune is now going to just assert himself. Then Mute just reels off six points in a row. just goes and wins the match and just falls on his back like he's won Roland Garros it was great stuff Right, yes, Titanic.

He's a nightmare, isn't he, Mute, for somebody like Runa? Well, for most somebodies, but definitely for somebody like Runa. He's got Jack Draper now. Moutet probably a gift for Draper that Moutet did play nearly four hours because I saw his interview on Sky Sports after his his last win and I thought he looked absolutely exhausted. He's... He's running on MT.

But, you know, he's very aware of that and he's very aware of, you know, I want to be a consistent top five player. And that means not just popping up and having one great 1000 event and then disappearing. It means showing up and doing it. week after week after week. I continue to be so impressed with his mindset and maturity. you know,

The body is what it is. And I do think he's going to hit the wall eventually. But maybe not against the remains of Quarantan Mute. Okay, that is it for the men's side of things in Rome. We'll be back in part two to talk about the women. BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30-second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw. Relax your shoulders. Take it deep. Amen. And out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self-care. Imagine what you could do with more.

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Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast. One of four podcasts that we are recording this week. We simply cannot get enough yet. The David Law influence on our tennis podcast schedule is... Because later on today, David is going to be interviewing Chris Clary, who has, he is, of course, is the author of The Master, the incredible biography of Roger Federer.

You can't just write a biography of Roger Federer, can you? He has now written a biography of Rafael Nadal. It's called The Warrior. We are... getting the first interview with Chris Clary. David is doing that this evening and that is going to be released for all Tennis Podcast listeners and we are very excited about it. We were all sent copies of the book. We've been furiously trying to read it.

It's awesome. Chris is an incredible writer and we're very lucky to get to speak to him. So that'll be available for you tomorrow, at which point we will already be recording our next podcast. our next edition, our latest edition of Tennis Relived for friends of the tennis podcast. Matt, can you offer the people a little teaser of what that's going to be about, please?

I can. This, as you said, Roland Garros relived and we're going to be... delving into the extraordinary life of the 1934 and 1936 Roland Garros champion who is Gottfried von Kram. And his name has come up while researching many other editions of Tennis Relive. particularly ones on Fred Perry and Ted Tinling. And he's one of those people whose, Wikipedia when you when you find yourself on it you just read the whole thing because it draws you in and it's so fascinating and

We've gone a lot further than his Wikipedia page for this one, a proper deep dive into his life. I think it's one of the most. fascinating tennis lives that has ever been um one of the most incredible stories we will ever tell on tennis relived and it's a it's one of those where there's an intersection of sport and history because Obviously, Gottfried von Kram's tennis career takes place during the rise of the Nazis during the 1930s. But Gottfried von Kram was gay. He was...

you know, therefore persecuted by the Nazis, spent some time in jail. And yeah, it's just an absolutely incredible story. And I'm glad that we get to tell it. I remember it being so arresting a couple of years ago. I think you were researching something else and I leaned over to your desk and, you know, you had the French Open on a real open and there's got... Godfrey von Kramm's name with a Nazi flag next to it. Just seeing that, you know, in the history books is

It's pretty extraordinary. So I'm very excited about this show. It has been right at the top of my wish list ever since I... leaned over to see what was on Matt's laptop screen that day. Never disappoints David leaning over to see what's on Matt's laptop screen. No. No, we've got a week to wait until we can actually listen to it. Is that right, Matt? You're going to keep us on tenterhooks. You've put it in the schedule for next week.

Yeah, well, next week is Roland Garros week, isn't it? You know, where qualifying starts. It feels right that we release Roland Garros Relive. during Roland Garros week, but we are recording tomorrow. Yep, the Gottfried von Kram edition of Tennis Relived will be coming out for Friends of the Tennis podcast next week. This week we have, as I said, the Chris Clary episode coming out tomorrow, Tuesday, Thursday.

We will be back with our Rome update show and then we'll be back next Monday with our live show on Monday evening to talk. all things Rome and whatever's happened in the finals in Rome. Matt is somehow squeezing in a trip to Manchester to see Bruce Springsteen in amongst all of that. What a week. What a week we have in store, Matt. Oh, so great. So great. I'm so excited about.

Seeing Bruce on Wednesday, I am less excited about the ticket I bought for Brentford Fulham on Sunday. I'm also getting to that and our season is in tatters and Brentford are probably going to beat us. Sorry for my mood in advance for next Monday's party. Oh, you're going to be Carlos Alcaraz. Exactly, that's what I mean. I can relate. Laszlo Gerra. You'll get through it, but...

It'll be scrappy. Great. So glad that's a live show. Okay. On to the WCA in Rome. And I feel like... We should start with something that Matt Futterman talked about in detail in his voice note and gave some great insight into, and that is another loss, this time an early loss. on last week's show about that alarming defeat to Coco Gauff, all the caveats that that came with, all the one big caveat of us learning that she had recently lost her grandfather and returned home to Poland too.

to attend his funeral and You know, for that reason, tried to look at Iguicriantec's form in big picture rather than that specific alarming-looking loss in Madrid because of the context there. But we did point out... I think it was Matt, you pointed out that while there have been some alarming red flags in her form, she hasn't been losing early. Well...

Now she has lost early in one of her favourite backyards in a place where she traditionally plays her best tennis. And I know Danielle Collins is a tough draw to face in your first match, second match, sorry, second match. to face in your second match at a tournament. This was an alarming defeat, make no mistake about it. 6-1, 7-5, the defeat to Danielle Collins. She found her form a little bit in the second set, but she was horrible in the first.

Yeah, alarming, David, is I keep coming back to it. That is. That is the word that I feel when I'm watching Yga Svantec. I feel the alarm bells going off. I feel them going off in her head. It is a very tough one. seeing her on a tennis court right now. Yeah, it is. And to reference what Matt was saying about how you can turn things around for running arse if you haven't necessarily won the lead-ins and so forth. I think about Rafael Nadal over the years, really the only time I remember him.

Looking in anywhere like this was probably 2015 when he was just, he just had lost all of his confidence on his forehand and he lost to Djokovic in the quarterfinals heavily and Djokovic himself. had his injury and lost his motivation for a while he admitted but There is something really disconcerting watching Svantec at the moment. She looks so unsure of herself and so anxious and frantic out on the court. And just in terms of watching her game.

When she serves, talking about that vulnerability that Matt Futterman was referencing, she is serving sometimes now, landing on her follow-through foot, and then she's just stuck.

doesn't move and as a winner goes past her and it's i'm looking at her thinking what why isn't she running towards these balls that's just everything's everything's out of sync at the moment and she does not know what's what day is going to be like from one to the next and if you think of the number of sets i i think she's been on the receiving end of as many

six love and six one sets as she's dished out in the last few weeks and that's a really weird feeling because she still she still does dish them out occasionally as well and you think oh oh she's back it's fine everything's normal and then the next it's off again and so I don't think you can go into rolling arse feeling that things are going to suddenly turn around. The loss she had against Gough is the one that convinced me that this is serious now. And then this was just another example of it.

Yeah, and she, in one of her press conferences, I think a pre-tournament press conference this week, Matt, obviously, you know, before she suffered this. worrying defeat to Collins, poo-pooed what was being reported and what You reported what we reported on last week's show, what had been reported in the Polish press about her.

um looking to take a break after Roland Gower she said it's nonsense I've got no plans to take a break and my heart sunk hearing that because I mean, it might not be a miracle cure, but... I cannot see how taking a break from the sport right now would do her any harm at all. It feels like she has to get off the hamster wheel somehow. It feels like she's in a kind of...

Stockholm syndrome kind of relationship with the sport where you kind of keep going back to your abuser. I don't know, it all just... I literally get a queasy feeling in my stomach watching her. I'm so worried about her. right now and I know that's mostly interpretation, we don't know everything that's going on in her mind but I don't think you have to have much empathy or understanding of human beings to know that Things aren't right in your Gishon tech's mind right now.

Yeah, and I suppose I was a little... sort of surprised when I read those reports in the Polish media that she was thinking of taking a break knowing what she'd said at the end of last year when it was suggested to her that she might take a break after the US Open. And we know that she... in the past hasn't wanted to take a break. So I was as sort of encouraged as I was by those reports in a way, thinking I'd feel like that might be the right thing to do. I was a bit...

I therefore wasn't that surprised, to be honest, when she said, no, I'm not planning on taking a break. Those reports aren't true, even though... even though it's very tough to imagine that anything could be better for her right now than taking a break. And I think what... What's most worrying, and it's, Catherine, you sort of called this actually earlier in the year, I think, because, you know, we've been talking about Spiontech's form.

For a little while, you know, it was good at the Australian Open, but since then we've been talking about it. She hasn't been winning the titles that she would normally win. And I think I assumed it would get better on the clay. You know, I assumed that when the clay came round, that would be the difference maker that she needed because she wasn't losing early.

The clay would sort of get her through those matches that she was just having having a little bit of trouble with at the back end of tournaments But I remember you saying Catherine sort of theorizing that actually it could get worse on the clay because of the sort of increase pressure and I think

The clay court swing has actually been worse for her. As David said, she suffered not just losses, but heavy losses. You know, the six love set against Madison Keys. I know she ended up winning that night. But it was still a really alarming sight and then she gets... 6-1, 6-1, defeat to Coco Gough. And here she loses the first set to Danielle Collins, 6-1. And yeah, exactly as David's saying.

We're seeing players take her apart on the clay in the way that she takes players apart on the clay when she's at her best. And she hasn't suffered those sorts of... defeats on clay over several years over dozens and dozens of matches like it just doesn't happen to Igor Svantec so I think it just shows that there's a much much deeper issue a much more sort of rooted issue than just her form hasn't been great and there are there are problems with her with her game right now particularly

The movement as David's highlighted and the serve as Matt Futterman has highlighted and there are moments where she's running around her forehand to hit backhand. because she's so unsure, I think, of where the ball's going to go off the strings on the forehand right now, which I have definitely called Diego Svantec forehand in the past.

the best shot in the sport when it's firing certainly on a clay court the way it bounds up the way it can attack opponents and push them out wide it's a devastatingly good shot and it's it's not there right now and Yeah, because she's been making these deep runs, there's been a part of me that's thought, well... maybe maybe she can she can get over the line but it's gone the other way as you said and she's now she's now had one of those

sort of anxious frantic performances early in the tournament against an opponent who we must say did play tremendously well danielle collins was was awesome in this match considering she had no form really coming in, hadn't played many matches. She absolutely dominated, really. And we know that... Well, frankly, I think we know she doesn't particularly like Igor Shviontek and she always seems a little bit out to get her. And that happened in this match. And yeah, look, she's outside of...

Outside of the top two now, her ranking has dropped outside of the top two for the first time in, I think, 160 weeks or so. Just an absolutely extraordinary run that she's had, being so consistent at the very, very top of the sport. But we're going to Roland Garros with that. With that conundrum of, yes, she's won four titles in five years there. We have to respect that record. But she's also not reached the final since. Last year's Radon Garros, you know, that's the recent evidence.

to me is outweighing the historical evidence here going in going into Roland Garros I'm giving more weight to recent form than I am historical form and Right now, I would struggle to see Igor Shontek winning Roland Garros. And just that sentence coming out of my mouth, I find really sort of troubling to say, really, because I feel for her because... She's so great at the sport when she's at her best and she's so far from it right now. And yeah, it's a really, really tough watch.

There's a clip circulating on social media amplifying the volume from the coaching box of a particular moment in that Collins match where Wim Forsett is shouting. calling out to Iga Svantec, play to win, play to win. And... That to me indicates that... she's playing not to lose and do you remember do you remember i think it was the australian open a couple of years ago when she was she was world number one and she she

She came in to a pre-tournament press conference and she said, I'm in a good headspace now. She said, I wasn't for a while because I'd started playing not to lose. I'd stopped playing to win. I'd started playing not to lose. a bear trap that is one of tennis's bear traps and certainly one of the bear traps of being at the top where suddenly you've got nothing to gain you've only got something to lose and I feel like she is

She's deep in that bear trap now. That's certainly what it looks like to me.

Daniel Collins now faces Elena Svitolina, incidentally, who's so far continued her incredible run of form just at the moment. Winner of that to face the winner of Peyton Stearns against Naomi Osaka. who again, tentatively, is... is picking up a better form, although... We did our last weekly podcast live on YouTube and there was somebody in the chat, in the live chat, who was repeatedly declaring that Peyton Stearns was going to win Roland Garros.

And obviously made a joke of that at the time, but... I don't know. I mean, she's not going to enrol on Garros, but it feels ever so slightly less funny than it did a week ago. Well, yeah, she was awesome to beat Madison Keyes, who... I was thinking, is Madison Keyes in the French Open mix? I was kind of thinking, we were talking about the French Open mix the other day, and she's won the last Grand Slam, and she's reached the semi-final at Roland Garros before.

It's not preposterous that she could be in your French Open mix. David just dismissed it like it was preposterous. Explain yourself, David. I just, I can't see it. I don't think she's got the game to win. I think it's too erratic. I have sort of started watching her results. specifically because of that. I'm interested in this match. I mean...

I was quite taken with what Matt Futterman was saying about Naomi Osaka and look, I've been not shy about saying I'm not Patrick Moritoglu's biggest fan. I'm really not. I don't. I love hearing him making himself the centre of attention all the time. But I tell you, he does have an ability to tap into a player who's in a bit of a tailspin and in a bit of a slump and get them going.

Let's not forget the very first edition of the tennis podcast 13 years ago was off the back of Serena Williams losing in the first round of the... french open and he began working with her and I'm not saying it's just because of him, of course not, but he definitely got something going in her then and he's definitely getting something going inside Naomi Osaka's mind. and stomach she really has got the fire burning right now. And it's...

I don't care where it comes from, it's just great to see. It's great to see Naomi Osaka playing this brand of tennis again and loving it, loving the intensity of the battle and looking happy to be out there. And that brand of tennis, I think, is important because She's talked a lot in the past, hasn't she, about maybe not really knowing what to do on clay, you know, in terms of play her natural game or try and play a bit more.

quote-unquote like a clay quarter and i think she's just been racking up the winners this tournament she's been trying to play on her terms i think partly due to the players she's been playing you know like she drew sarah rani in in her first match like

It's pretty obvious how you've got to play against Sarah Rani, right? You've got to impose your firepower, and she did do that. And look, I think the big thing for me is kind of what Matt Futterman hinted at there, winning matches that she wouldn't have won in the past. Last year she really struggled to win after losing the first set. She only won one match in the whole year after losing the first set and she lost six of them. This year already she's won five having lost the first set.

So she's sticking around in these matches and she's finding her form in them and coming through them. But I don't want to go too far into this match because it's going to be extremely out-of-date tennis news. But Stearns is an interesting test because...

It feels a bit of a level up. I know Bouskova was a good win for her in terms of, you know, Bouskova's around 50 in the world. Stearns is a little bit higher than that. But Stearns has also got some weapons. You know, Stearns has got a big, heavy forehand of her own. whereas Bruce Gover, slightly less so. She's more sort of metronomic and consistent. So if Osaka could win that one, I would really start to...

get excited again but as it is it's just it's just impressive and and kind of good to see and i'm just pleased for her that her confidence seems to be coming back You're where I am with Bianca Andreescu, trying to... Trying to keep your natural hype instinct in check. Matt Futterman hasn't helped me out there, has he, with trying to keep a level head about Bianca Andreescu. She's got Xingqin Wen next.

Elena Rabatkinner, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4. Yeah, I mean, Rabatkinner in quite a low-key way does seem to be in a slump right now, which is... tough to see um but by contrast like the andrescu vibes they're just irresistible how how can you not be lured into the Andrescu hype David because it's a magnetic force Yeah, I watched both her win over Donna Vekic and Vekic is struggling with her serve at the moment. So, you know.

It is a little difficult to fully appreciate how much is this and risk of playing excellently and how much of it is playing opponents who are struggling at the moment in Vekic and Rabakina. But I think you have to give Andreescu a lot of credit. I mean, she... She is playing out of the box really here after, was it an appendix operation she had? earlier this year.

I mean, you know, she's had a long time out of the sport. If you think we, you and Matt spoke to her for that interview we did at Roland Garros last year, and that was off the back of a comeback from a long layoff. And she played for a while after that. And then she's been out for many months. to come out playing this level of tennis, which I think is actually higher than it was a year ago. is really something. I mean, she tactically against Rebecca, and she was so clever.

It really reminded you how she won all those matches. looping moon balls one after another to her and then slicing one and then moon balling one and then slicing one. It must be a nightmare to play when you're somebody who wants that metronomic consistency to just knock the living daylights out of the ball and she was just refusing to give her that. And there's not many that can or would try to do that. So, so much enjoy watching her play the sport.

I suspect Jin Jin-wen won't enjoy that those if she deploys those tactics i mean jung could just hit through her but i don't know i suspect she's not gonna have that fun a time trying to um the winner of that andresco against jung faces the winner of uh sabalenka again

Kostryk Sabalenka really had to battle to beat Sofia Kennan yesterday. Kostryk's an interesting one, isn't she? I had a message from a friend overnight that asked... what her ceiling is like he said i've just just watched her play she doesn't seem to have any weaknesses um why don't we talk about her more what's her scene would anybody like to to answer that like are we are we are we seeing it or is there is there more to come from

David, you're a big Kostiuk believer. I do think there is more to come, but I think it's a really, really insightful question, actually, because why isn't she higher than she is? I mean, there could be lots of reasons. including the fact that her country's been invaded and her Her life has been turned upside down in so many ways. But look, she has had some really, really good results the last 18 months.

and it feels like she's been on the brink of something and not quite got over the lines in a couple of big matches. I think that's really what's happened. She's pushed people in big matches and not necessarily won them. But she does look the part on clay in particular. I mean, she moves so well. And she also has a strong baseline game. She's a superb competitor.

I do think there is more to come from her. I think the more she wins, the more she'll believe she can win. But she could do with, like, the fact she's playing Sabalenka, she could just... If it's not this one, it needs to be one of these. She needs to win one of these matches against a big name, not just put up a good show. And then I think psychologically she would go to a different level.

Dario Kazekina on her way to this last 16 match with Irina Sabalenka. Kazekina, of course, now representing Australia, her first match with Costa Rica since. switching her nationality from Russian to Australian and very notably and quite movingly actually there was a handshake between Kostiuk and And Kazekina. And it was quite moving and emotional. It was quite a poignant moment, Matt. It was. And I also found Kostya.

quotes about it quite moving as well she said when someone not only tells the truth calling Russia the aggressor, but also acts on it. That deserves respect. Kasachina has clearly spoken out against the war and made the decision to give up Russian sports citizenship. This takes courage, and I acknowledge it. and yeah there was a very very respectful handshake between them after the match I also noticed that The Ukrainian player Nadia Kikshinok gave Kasikino a big hug after their doubles match.

Yeah, I suppose I'm just pleased that the move that Kasekina has made has enabled this to happen. yeah so I I think I think it was quite a moving moment actually and Yeah, like you. I hadn't really thought about what a caustic ceiling could be. But it always strikes me how young she is, considering she's been playing Grand Slams for about seven years and she's still only 22. years old like she's got hopefully so much time ahead of her in this sport and

I think the one today against Sabalenka is fascinating because they played a great match in Madrid, didn't they? In conditions which would favour Sabalenka more. And you mentioned that match against Kennan. To me, for Sabalenka, that looked a little bit like what you were describing with Jack Draper in terms of Sabalenka's been going so deep in all these tournaments. If an early loss can be a good thing.

Or not a bad thing. I would say an early loss here in Rome wouldn't be a bad thing for Rina Sabalenko. I know these are the most Roland Garros-like conditions. You want time in them. She has been going deep in every tournament that she's played pretty much for the last few weeks, Sabalenka. And it was one of those performances against Kennan where she couldn't take her break points and it just looked exhausting.

And I don't know, I just feel like she wants to be as fresh as possible going into Roland Garros because this is your chance, Serena. This probably should be your Roland Garros title. It's one of those weird things about tennis where sometimes a deep run and a good form can jeopardize your next... tournament because you've got so many matches and

you know, you get tired and burnt out. But I'm not hugely worried about that, but it's just in the back of my mind that if she did lose early here, it might not be the worst thing in the world for Sabalenka. And I do think Kostiuk's a big, big tech. And if that's anywhere in her mind, which, you know. On a conscious level or not, she'll know it's not the worst thing in the world potentially to lose earlier rather than later in Rome. That can be enough to remove.

the very sharpest bit of the fang, can't it? Coco Goff will play Emma Raducanu later today. Clara Towson against Mira Androva. These are the matchups we... Well, that I personally am excited about. Paolini Ostapenko as well. I'm... There is no match here that I don't want to watch, which is unfortunate because I won't be able to watch them all and they won't be available on catch up on Sky Sports Tennis. Yep, that's where we are. After that sums it up.

Towson, David, she's got a chance against Andreva. Can I tell you what? Did she have a chance against Goff? I was really surprised Towson beat Navarri yesterday. I was following the scores. I didn't watch the match, but just following the scores, she lost the first set 6-3, and I'm thinking... I just think probably Navarro's She's just such a canny player. But then, you know, Donna Vekic tends to beat Navarro with her big forehand, you know, and Tarzan's got that power.

Raducanu has been really impressive, I think, both in terms of sort of fighting away back from losing opening sets and winning through, but just... She seems to be really enjoying the process and watching her... take her game on a little bit more. She's less reactive and more proactive, I'm finding. And she's actually said, I'm not worrying so much if I go for shots and they don't come off.

It's okay. I'm gonna try again, you know, and I like that brand of tennis from her. I mean, she's on the forehand side she's not as big a hitter as some of the other players but she can she can still be assertive because she's got a different way of attacking you you know she's got angles and she and sometimes if if she defends well and you end up being brought in as a result she can pass you so well um

So, yeah, very interesting to see her play against Coco Goff. I remember seeing that at the Australian Open a couple of years ago, and I really loved that match then, and not everybody was as impressed with it as I was, I remember, at the time. But I can't wait. I always feel like Radekarni moves really well on clay. It might not be her very favourite surface, but I think there's potential there. Her movement looks comfortable to me on clay.

Yeah, I'm hyped for this day of tennis. It's got real first day of a slam, Matt Roberts. panicking about not having enough screens energy about it today. It does. I've got a new policy getting into the French Open. I'm going to try and spend less time watching on the screens trying to get out there more. Good man. I do get out there. That's not to say that I don't, but you're right. I do get drawn to the incredible interactive screen so I can watch four matches at once.

You do have to be a little bit careful because I'm definitely somebody who likes to get out there, but sometimes you'll be like, where's david and i'm on a match that we really shouldn't have much editorial interest in but i've just heard some noise i've just suddenly ended up there okay i promise to get out there and go for editorial interest

Look out for Matt out and about at Roland Garros watching Anna Bogdan wearing a nose strip. Exactly. All in the name of podcasting. Right, that's it for part two. We'll be back for more in part three. BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30-second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw. Relax your shoulders. Take it and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self-care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit BetHelp.com.

For 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure. Just help. But for now, just relax. Your customers are scrolling past your social ads, using ad blockers and paying for ad-free But when they're listening to a podcast, they're hearing Acast ads, which avoid...

So, if you want real attention, start advertising on Start today at go.acost.com forward slash at Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast where we still have a few bits of news to cover including the news that Novak Djokovic has taken a wild card into Geneva.

What a curious tennis player he has become, Novak Djokovic. You just don't know what his next move is going to be, Matt. Were you as surprised as I was? By this as I was? Yes. And maybe I shouldn't have been because he did play Geneva last year. Where he was in a similar-ish place in terms of not really having much form going into Roland Garros and felt like a player to try and find that form, we'd obviously... theorize that maybe he was priority you know kind of prioritizing the grass ahead of

the clay and maybe he might not even play Roland Garros um and look maybe maybe he has had that thought process and maybe he skipped Rome because he was just kind of fed up and not there mentally and just wasn't in the space to play but he's you know he's had some time away and he's thought no I I can still win Roland Garros or finding my form at Roland Garros is a means to Wimbledon, whatever it is. I don't claim to know what is going on in Novak Djokovic's mind. But either way, I do find it.

fascinating. It certainly gives that tournament and that lead up to Roland Garros week a bit of extra juice. Merci. If he does find his form, then I know we... I know we've been talking a lot about how he's one of the threats. At Wimbledon, personally, if he finds any kind of form, I still see him as a threat at Roland Garros. He's not lost at that tournament to anyone other than Rafael Nadal for six years.

Whether that form is still there is the question mark, but if he can find it and he's motivated, then he's still in my mix. So hang on, beating someone like Marcus Garone over best of three sets in Geneva could change your feeling about Novak Djokovic's likelihood to win Roland Garros. Well, it would slightly depend what else he did, and...

In Geneva. If he has one win over Marcus Garone and then lose, it's like it wouldn't change massively. Okay, if he wins the title but beating Garones. So harsh on Garone. It is harsh, given the Taylor Swift. Okay, come on. Nicholas Jarrett. That's not going to be better. Beating Jerry's, beating... I don't think he needs much, is what I'm saying. I think I get what you... I think the point is, if Novak Djokovic is anything like Novak Djokovic, by the time he gets to running...

You're saying you would put him in the mix, basically. Yeah, which I don't think is ludicrous. No, it's not. I'm being contrary. We still do have the fact that you've questioned him over the best of five seconds repeatedly. I have. I have. Nuno Borges. Are you still on that?

Look, I'm not predicting him to win Roland Garros. Ranked higher than Marcus Garone. I'm not predicting him to win Roland Garros, but I'm not prepared. His mix status is fascinating. But I'm not prepared to say that I would be surprised if he won Roland Garros. I would. Yeah, I think I would be too. And yet I really think he's one of my favourites to win. And let's say Wins Geneva, he's 38 years old and he's just played

Five matches, that's an ideal build-up. Geneva last year, he was not good. He lost to the best player in the world. He didn't. He... He was struggling to breathe in that match. I remember watching it in the Roland Garros press room on our laptop screen, surrounded by journalists, and it was like, wow, no mediocrity doesn't look fit. Well, he found his form at Roland Garros. I know he didn't go on to win the title. I know he's a year older now, and these are all caveats that I'm...

that I'm taking into place. I know he got injured. That, again, another concern. But the tennis he played to beat Lorenzo Mazzetti at three o'clock in the morning was extraordinary. And the Tennessee player to beat Francisco Sarundolo, who has shown this year what a great clay quarter he is, and player generally, he beat him on one leg. He then had to pull out of the tournament, and then he had form enough to reach the women in final and win the Olympics. What I'm saying is that...

With Djokovic, I don't think it takes that much for him to... find his form. Like, I'm not... I've got questions about best of five. I've got questions about his headspace and motivation. I don't have that bigger questions about whether that brilliant tennis is still somewhere in there. We've seen it this year. The last Grand Slam, we saw it against Carlos Alcraz.

He just has to be in the conversation to me if he's in the draw. Hang on, hang on. What's the conversation? We're talking about a mix, not a conversation. Okay. Well, let's see if he beats Nuno Borges in Geneva, shall we? I'll make up my mind as and when. Also, not in a position to comment on the Mazzetti victory because I did accidentally fall asleep during... quite large swathes of that match, didn't I? but then bounced back to record a podcast at 3 o'clock in the morning. People bounce back.

The draw has been made for the Billie Jean King Cup finals in Shenzhen in September. It will be Italy against China, Spain against Ukraine, Kazakhstan against USA and Japan against Great Britain. And the last bit of news we wanted to mention is that your friend of mine, maybe not your friend, certainly mine, And ours. Don't assume that all the listeners are friends with Charlie Eccleshire, but, you know, spiritual friends. Friend of the pod, he is. Friend of the pod.

Oh, dear. Charlie Eccleshire, excellent journalist, Charlie Eccleshire from The Athletic, has been nominated for the second annual Billie Jean King Award for excellent, excellent. In women's sports coverage, he's nominated in the pro sports category. And quite right too. He's a very worthy nominee and an excellent journalist. And congratulations, Charlie, on the nomination and good luck for the awards themselves. Very exciting. Go on, Charlie. We move on to talk about Coda.

Koda is our mascot for this week's show, owned by Tristan. Oh, an Australian shepherd. Oh, you're kidding. Coda is an Australian shepherd who will be six in April. He has one pale blue eye and one half blue, half brown eye. Oh gosh. He loves to go on daily walks while I listen to the pod. Code is an expert frisbee catcher and loves to play with his best friend Bindi, a chocolate Labrador. He can of course sit, shake and lay down on command.

But I've also taught him to spin in a circle and walk through my legs to be rewarded for a treat. He has an overflowing basket of toys, but his favourite are the various balls that he's always losing under the couch. Coda is the most loyal companion and he's thrilled to be a mascot for his favourite podcast. Oh my God, wait until you see this dog.

Australian shepherds are absolutely incredible. Jessica Bagula's got one, hasn't she? I can't believe I've forgotten the dog's name, but featured heavily in the Charleston Winners photo shoot. There are some excellent pictures of that. Coda is incredible. Coda, of course, means a friend to everyone. It's absolutely lovely. And Coda looks exactly that. So thank you, Tristan, for bringing Coda into our lives. What an absolute treat.

Hello to our mascots. Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Maisie. And hello, now enormous Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. And over to Matt for some shout outs. We start with Chris Wiley from Cambridge. Bye, Chris. Hello, Chris. Chris says, my husband Malcolm and I were at Wimbledon last year and a highlight was watching the pod being recorded in the pouring rain, of course, after a match on number one court played by Alcraz. Happy memories Chris.

Lots of pods were recorded in the pouring rain at Wimbledon last year. I'm glad you had show court seats, though, because that means you didn't spend a day sitting outside in the rain. Lots of tennis cruises. Chris Wilkinson, Chris Lewis, Chris Clary, Chris Evers. Very good. I can't believe Chris Wilkinson got in before Everett. Night is Catherine. Christopher Eubanks. Very good. Is he ever a Chris? Chris Eubanks? Yes.

Okay, Chris, I hope you get to go to Wimbledon this year and it's not pouring rain. We all hope that for both you and for ourselves. Thank you, Chris. We've also got Tracy Smith in Australia. Tracy moved to Melbourne last year but is from Brisbane. Hello, Tracy. Tracy's first live tournament was the 1983 Davis Cup quarterfinal tie between Australia and Romania. featuring Pat Cash and Elena Stasi on the grass courts in Brisbane.

What an introduction to live tennis. All downhill from there, Tracy. Tracy. Tennis. Well, more information from Tracy. Tracy was also at our live show in Melbourne. this year and says it was up there with seeing Cher a few years ago. Don't let it get to your heads. It has. How can I not let that get to my head? Tennis Tracy's. Come on, we own Tracy and Tracy. Yeah.

I had to send Tracey Austin an apology text during Wimbledon last year. It was all a big misunderstanding. It was all fine in the end though. Tracey likes us. We love Tracey. I loved, I loved Tracy. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Tracy. Who else have we got for? Finally, we've got Fraser Marnie Casquet. And Fraser says, Casquet rhymes with gasquet. Thank you, Fraser. Good work, Fraser. Or Neil Fraser. Yes, that is Fraser's suggestion.

Very good. And you will both absolutely love this. Fraser says, I've been listening to the pod since David told me to in a tweet. in either late 2012 or 2013. So I remember the Putney Exchange days. Yeah, tell your friends.

Early days of David Law tennis podcast marketing are a chaotic thing to relive. I went through a period of trying to say something hot takey on my personal Twitter in the hope that it would create a bit of a storm and get replies and then I would reply and say, have you heard the tennis podcast? That works a treat! Well, I did actually. And now here we are all these years later with Fraser. And also Vicky. Vicky says that she started listening because David told me to.

Some people tell me to F off. Oh, the internet. What a thing. Fraser, Chris and Tracy. You were close to having to issue another apology there. Fraser, Chris and Tracy, thank you ever so much for your support of the Tennis Podcast. We will be back with another pod tomorrow. That is David speaking to Chris Clary, the author of The Warrior, his new biography.

of rafael nadal we'll be back on thursday with another show about rome and we'll be back on monday at 8pm live on youtube with our rome rap show so do join us live if you'd like to that is rap w-r-a-p uh don't want any misleading marketing for that show. And speaking of shows, if you'd like to come and see us live in London on June the 26th at Shoreditch Town Hall, more tickets are being released, or have been released.

this morning. So do check it out. The link for tickets is in our show notes on our Instagram and on Eventbrite. Just search for The Tennis Podcast. We'd love to see you there on June the 26th. for listening today. at soon Bye for now.