Roland Garros Day 13 - Sinner vs. Alcaraz final at last, but will Djokovic be back?

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Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Marian Bartotti. This is Bianca Andreescu. I'm Mats Villander. This is Mary Carrillo. This is Pam Shriver. This is Yannick Noah, and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast. Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is day 13 of Roland Garros just...

In about half an hour, it'll be day 14 of Roland Garros. It is 11.30 at night. We're sitting in an eerily quiet Place de Muscataire and we are processing what we've just seen on court field.

between the world number one Yannick Sinner and the 24-time Grand Slam champion Novak Djokovic. A match won by Sinner to reach a first Roland Garros final, a three-set win over... 38-year-old Djokovic, but one in which Djokovic, to quote the man himself in a press conference that we have just come away from, he didn't half give Sina a run for his money. David, Matt.

How are we feeling? Yeah, I feel really energised by what I've witnessed tonight. Personally, I really enjoyed that match. I think it is one of the better straight sets matches that I've seen.

and huge credit to them both for that. And I think Djokovic has summed that up really well. He did give him a heck of a run for his money. It took some holding off for Sinner, the fact that Djokovic had... set points and I think he'll rue big missed chances and failing to convert on big points because he set himself up. with a lot of opportunities despite Sinner playing well but that's where Sinner makes you think of Djokovic from years ago because he's the guy who holds

the other player off and ends up winning in straight sets. It's the ultimate main character energy, isn't it? He's just lost in straight sets. We've got a first Sinner Alcaraz Grand Slam final to look forward to.

It's absolutely huge and yet we're going to talk about Novak Djokovic probably more than anybody tonight because he's Novak Djokovic and that is the effect he has on a tennis match and a tennis climate. We are left now wondering if we'll ever see Novak Djokovic on court Philippe Chatrier again. Yeah, because I think we probably would have spent a lot of time talking about Novak Djokovic anyway, but then he left the court.

in the way that he did, which was actually coming out into the centre of the court with his bags and... Rather than just leaving straight away and taking the applause from all sides of the stadium and tapping his heart and I think touching the clay at one point as well.

you know it looked a lot like a farewell it looked a lot like taking in the moment in case this is the last time he plays on court philippe chatrier which you know has obviously been one of his most successful courts in the world so you know you ended the match feeling and thinking about Novak Djokovic in that sense as well there was something sort of bigger than the match I suppose you know was this the last time we see Novak Djokovic

in paris and honestly it was very moving actually the way the crowd responded to him through that match he said that he felt tremendous gratitude towards them and that's kind of what that what that moment was and you know again to not

to not spend the whole time talking about Nomad Djokovic, I was very impressed with how Yannick Sinner responded to those moments where the crowd were. rising as one for Novak Djokovic or erupting into applause. Sinner stood very, very firm in those moments and there was a big chance that this match went beyond three sets tonight.

Sinner managed to come through a couple of extremely tight ones, even in the face of Djokovic throwing incredible tennis at him and the crowd supporting him. So I left, like David, feeling energized and just feeling... you know like both of them put it all on the line and display

their greatness really yeah i felt exactly the same it was an incredible experience being there in the stadium and what you described with the crowd support that djokovic has just talked about in his press conference not ever having experienced any crowd support like that here in a big match. Yeah, the one other sort of moment that came to mind for me was that incredible ovation he got here after he lost to Stan Wawrinka in 2015. Now, maybe he didn't quite get that through the match.

I think Stan Wawrinka's tennis was just so spellbinding and exhilarating that day. A lot of the crowd probably wanted to see that upset with Wawrinka winning. But he got...

the most incredible reception that day. It went on for like three minutes, a standing ovation, and he was in tears. So he definitely has had love from the Paris crowd before, but something... happens you end up feeling differently about these guys when you suddenly think oh this might be the last time or oh they're old they're vulnerable now and I'm sure there were people in that stadium who felt

differently about Novak Djokovic tonight than they've felt before. And not just in the stadium. Looking at the barge tonight, text from my mum.

declaring that she was supporting Novak Djokovic. My mum has never supported Novak Djokovic in a tennis match. Sorry, mum, if that's exposing you. But, you know, she's not alone there. There's a lot of people out there that, for whatever reason, have never supported Novak Djokovic.

a lot of people that do but a lot of people that haven't and a lot of them I think not just in the stadium tonight were supporting Novak Djokovic and David you've been telling us for years that it'll all change it'll all change when he gets older and he loses his dominance The way people feel about him and perceive him will start to change, but it's quite something to actually feel it and be in it.

Yeah, you can't believe it really until it happens. You know, you described there, Matt, the incredible ovation he got. in 2015 having lost that final and the crowd appreciating him in defeat even though they weren't supporting him in the match because he seemed impregnable at the time he was the all-conquering Novak Djokovic and

A lot of the time people get a little bit bored with that and they want the underdog, as you say, but they spotted his vulnerability in the moment and they wanted him to feel okay. And then he put it right the next year. But, you know, I... I fell in love with this sport by connecting with a 38-year-old who a lot of people did not like throughout his career. In 1991 at the US Open, a guy called Jimmy Connors.

who a lot of people had cheered against for many, many years, were suddenly right in his corner because he was 38. He made an unlikely run to the semifinals, far more unlikely than what Novak Djokovic has done, because Djokovic's tennis has never been in doubt. Okay, physically he has, but a year ago, less than a year ago, he beat Alcaraz on this. age to win Olympic gold and complete tennis but even so he was going to get old one day and today he as well as he played and he defied

logic with a lot of what he did today and I really look forward to talking about some of what we witnessed but he also showed his age there today because it was exposed by a guy 15 years as junior who plays like he did. And you do, you feel sorry for him. You start to feel for him.

want him to still find a way at least to win a set. He deserved a set tonight. He deserved at least a set. It was like watching Andy Murray for the last few years of his career at the end. And I always thought those emotions and... sensations you got. watching those the dying members of Andy Murray was so Andy Murray specific because he'd been cut off in his prime and he had one hip and he was British and you know

all the rest of it. And look, I'm not saying I felt exactly the same about Novak Djokovic tonight as I did watching Andy Murray. do what he did against the Nazi Kokonakis in the middle of the morning in Melbourne. And obviously Djokovic is doing this in a Grand Slam semi-final. You know, it's all... It's all... The context is different.

But there was residual emotions there. It was the same emotional muscles being flexed in me tonight. And that was a wonderful but discombobulating... thing you've been telling us David well age age gives you something and that's experiences and even Even not in a sporting context, just getting old and seeing people that are in your world or that you've known or seen ageing is something that moves you.

In a sporting context, you see these people age, and I personally end up caring about them. It happened to me with Ivan Lendl, who I used to hate when he was world number one. And then suddenly, as I saw him... trying to hold off father time and make it happen for himself one more time i started to care

And the same happened with Pete Sampras winning at Wimbledon, you know, with the light fading against Pat Rafter in 2000. I mean, look, I was always a Pete Sampras fan, but I think it's happened with every great champion. that I've ever seen, I've ended up wanting it for them at the end. Trying for a moment to take the emotion out of this, tennis-wise. How close was he tonight? How close a contest was that? He wasn't close in the first set. And my observation...

was that against Zverev there was such a clear-mindedness and an authority to everything that Djokovic was doing. He was in control of that match. The drop shots were the perfect tactic. He had time on the ball. to use his game. But Sinner rushes him. in a way that Zverev doesn't. And against Sinner, he tried some of those tactics in that first set, but it almost seemed like they were happening out of a slight sense of desperation already, you know, because Sinner was just on him, he was sharp.

Djokovic was quite techy early on, quite frustrated. And I'm just so sure that that was directly Sinner causing that. However...

The match turned quite early in that second set, I felt, when Djokovic started just unleashing a bit more on the forehand. And he started to get in the Yannick Sinner... service games and through the first part of this match I had this had this ticker going this this this counter of when will Novak Djokovic get a break point against Yannick Sinner because he came into this match having not earned a break point against him in 36 consecutive Yannick Sinner service games which is mind-boggling.

You know, Novak Djokovic is the greatest returner that I've seen. David, I know, always points to Andre Agassi as well. But, you know, he's one of the greatest returners that has ever been in this sport. But Sinner has repeatedly... denied him break points even. Not even breaks, break points. And this was racking up through the match. And we got to 45 before Sinner eventually was broken by Novak Djokovic. But even before then... Djokovic would get to Love 15 or get to Love 30 and then...

He would do something inexplicably poor. And that was the thing that was missing for Djokovic tonight. The very biggest moments, he didn't quite have it. There was a return game at 2-3 in that second set.

the love 30 and he missed some forehands, a couple of returns, which were just, you know, he never misses those. And then when he eventually did break in the match, he then lost his serve the very next game. So it felt like he'd done all that work to finally get the break, but Sinner was like straight back on it and credit to him. He uses that expression, doesn't he? I like to dance in a pressure storm. I always think about that. I love the way he says that.

He danced in that pressure storm tonight really, really well because Djokovic was putting the pressure on and Sinner met those big moments, for the most part, extremely well. And Djokovic... didn't quite have it in the very biggest moments, like even in that third set he worked himself to three set points. Two of them Sinner played extremely well, the third one, Novak Djokovic gets a forehand up the line and he pulls the trigger.

but he goes a couple of feet wide with it. And that to me was the difference in those second and third sets, which is astonishing because... most of the rest of the ATP tour has not got close to Yannick Sinner. You know, he's been crushing people without losing a game. And there was a moment of real nice levity in Djokovic's press conference where he said, well, you know, at least I didn't get bagel or bread.

like a lot of other people and I think he was genuinely like proud of how much he had pushed Yannick Sinner tonight but just in those very big moments in the second and third sets Sinner was the better player. And that not having it in the big moments, is that symptomatic of Yannick Sinner and what he does to opponents? Or is that symptomatic of... One of the cliches of ageing, which is you start to lose your nerve. I personally thought he was... I don't know what to put...

the misses early on down to. That might have been lack of a recent experience in those moments. It might be lack of nerve, like losing his nerve. I felt in the third set when he really was the better player.

much of that third set, and he set up the set point chances, I think, at 5-4. He had 15-40 on the Sinner serve. I think it was born of Sinner. compressing the opportunities so much that Djokovic felt like he'd got to pull the trigger all the more devastatingly and all the earlier. Just to talk about that game briefly. Djokovic gave the best impersonation of his best self around there. I wrote down that he's gone full Mr. Elastic.

here because he was getting pummeled and yet he was still reaching balls turning them around and actually

setting up these break points but the big chance that he regrets that he referenced in the press conference was on the set point the forehand down the line that he took early in the rally and I thought at that moment of the Olympic final when he just decided I'm not going to give Alcaraz chance here to dominate this rally I'm going to go for something big I think even on the on the match point you know I'm just going to finish this match right here and I think he tried to finish that set

right there without the normal setting up process and wearing down and he missed and he snatched at it and i do i do think it's it's difficult to know exactly but i think that sinner makes you

go for those tiny margins and he didn't quite have it. He said it in the press conference, didn't he, Djokovic, about Siné. He says he just constantly puts you under pressure. And I thought, how many... how many people have said that about you over the years you know this this constriction and and with sinner it's it's devastating because it's

You know, it's really reliable the way he hits the ball, Yannick Sinner. I never really feel worried that he's going to miss a shot. I think he'd hit one backhand unforced error through 90 minutes today, Yannick Sinner. And he's... going for it but like that's what I mean there's so much pace on the ball it's it's not it's not like he's playing it safe Sintner he is absolutely going after the ball and again that's a big difference

with the matchup with Zverev. Djokovic felt like he had time in that match. He just didn't have time today against Sinner. That was quite a shade against Zverev in the press conference. It didn't mean to be rude to him, but he very clearly set out the difference between these two guys.

Yeah, and there's also big differences in... in the movement you know sometimes I thought wow Djokovic did a great shot there and suddenly Sinner would have slid into it and be there and just able to just crack a ground stroke himself like it is incredible watching Yannick Sinner strike

tennis ball that brief pause before he then unleashes and the sort of kinetic chain of his body just so perfect it's I love just watching him strike a tennis ball and Yeah, I come down on the same side as David, I think. It feels like a bit of both, to answer your question. I'm sure that Novak Djokovic is not playing the big points as well as he ever has.

But he played them pretty well against Carlos Alcaraz in Australia. And tonight against Yannick Sinner, different opponent. I have to credit Sinner with... forcing some of those errors and forcing him to feel like he has to go for that forehand down the line, as David said. It feels so lazy and obvious, doesn't it, to go for the Yannick Sinner is Novak Djokovic-ing Novak Djokovic, but...

It's lazy and obvious for a reason. It's staring you right in the face as you're watching that match. Without Novak Djokovic, there would be no Yannick Sinner. He has created this brand of tennis. And Yannick Sinner has mastered it for a new generation. Yeah, that's spot on, I think. And Sinner knows it.

He's got so much respect for the man that departed the scene while he went up to do his interview and Novak got that ovation. I think Sinner wanted to join in. He knows. He's well aware. He never puts a foot wrong, does he, Yannick Sinner? You know, he just senses things well.

His maturity is extraordinary for a guy of his age. The manner in which he carries himself. It's very rare you see in a match or even in a situation in a press conference. We saw the whole... situation in in in the US Open when when he's He's had this positive test and he's handling that. And then you've got me asking him about carrots and foxes this week. And he just sort of looks at me as fine, you know. They're both orange.

And there was an absolutely remarkable point I just wanted to shout out right at the start of the second set. Sinner serving loved one. Novak Djokovic played the most staggering point, pulling...

in a forward and back and forward and back. They had like two sorts of rallies going on, one from the baseline, one up at the net in this one. And eventually Novak Djokovic won it with a lunging volley. And that was the first time he really called on the crowd. And there was this huge... eruption and sinner's response to that was otherworldly because i don't i don't know how he stayed so just stoic and stable

and then just served out the game after that. I just think that aura, that legend, that presence that Djokovic has, and his tennis was starting to rise, would have just been too much for most people. But Yannick Sinner just...

It didn't really seem to affect him. He doesn't even, like, shrug his shoulders in disappointment. He doesn't even, like, exhale. No. Not even a big sigh. It's just, he shakes it off. And that is, you know, the encore response that he has is very Djokovic-ian in terms of being able to... to withstand. But the quiet nature of his demeanour is completely anti Djokovic. You know. It's far free, isn't it? Yeah. So, you know, we shouldn't just say that he's a carbon copy, because he is his own...

He is his own player out there. He's absolutely modelled a lot of his game, I think, on Novak Djokovic. And he meets moments like Djokovic does. But he does do it in a different way. It's quieter. But it's compelling. And look, we will talk more about Yannick Sinner in part two once we've talked about Alcaraz's route through to that final. We'll talk about the final more tomorrow.

A final word in this section on Novak Djokovic. He's made it quite clear that this, as much as he gave that very emotional farewell to the crowd, as Matt described, that was kind of a... A backstop thing, just in case I'm not back. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He's planning tournament to tournament at the moment, or certainly Grand Slam to Grand Slam. But his Wimbledon plans are unchanged. He's... going to play Wimbledon. He seems pretty excited still about playing Wimbledon.

How do you feel about his prospects at Wimbledon David as somebody who's been very bullish even before this tournament about his prospects there? Pretty optimistic for him. About winning it? Yeah. Look, I do think there's a pecking order, right, in terms of the tennis at the moment. The two blokes in the final are there for a reason, and they are the best at the moment. Novak Djokovic acknowledged that as well.

made it very clear that kind of the whole point right now is Wimbledon. And that's what I always felt. I actually think he's done a heck of a lot better here than I thought he would a couple of weeks back. You know, I know that on the eve of this... people might say, well, hold on a minute, you said he was going to win this title after he beat Zverev, and I did say that, and I...

I mean, I still think he was really quite close to turning this around or at least taking it deep. But I still think then the way things were going, Alcaraz was going to pick up the pieces and beat him comfortably in the final.

after today if he'd have managed to turn that around but that that's not really relevant to Wimbledon because I think he's come out of this I know he was getting a little bit of treatment to his leg but he looks as though he's come out of this okay physically to me and he looked like he was moving like a dream

And it's very different on grass in terms of how few people are able to excel on that surface and move well on it. I mean, the guy reached the final last year and he was in no fit state, really, to play at his best. He got a pretty horrible experience in the final as a result of that, or at least partially because of that. I am pretty bullish for him. I mean, I still think that this guy is not going to want to go out without...

another massive moment in his career. And I would not be at all surprised if he's in the final. Yeah, I mean, I think so too. I think it depends what side of the draw he's on. I think he's the...

The gap is less at Wimbledon and on grass. I just don't think it's closed. I think those two are way out ahead of him and I would back either of them to beat him. at Wimbledon? Well, I can understand why. I definitely think I'd put Al Krause ahead in that pecking order than Sinner just because of experience. twice a champion Sinner hasn't reached a final yet but then he hadn't reached a final here yet and he's just ticking these things off just a final word on Djokovic by the way

It was interesting that he didn't shy away from the question I asked him very directly. If you're physically okay, if your health is in good shape in a year's time, do you expect to be back here? There was no sort of, sure, I will be. It was very much that this could be my last match that I play here. And if that is the case, I'm okay with it. Because he felt tonight he put in a good account of himself and he had a...

a wonderful experience with the crowd which clearly meant a great deal to him. He's got nothing left to prove. I think it's absolutely possible maybe even likely that he won't be here next year. Yeah. I feel the same, and look, if that was the end of Novak Djokovic at Roland Garros, it feels fitting to me, perhaps not.

I mean, winning it would be fitting, but in terms of who he was out there on the court tonight, it feels fitting, and I'm glad he would be at peace with it if that does prove to have been the end. It was... It was a real privilege to be there in the stadium. Folks, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about Carlos Alcaraz.

Well, there are just a few days left of Roland Garros now, and well, you know what that means. Grass is just around the corner. It is always so crazy how quickly and dramatically the courts turn from red to green.

This year, we're not just covering the grass court season how we usually do here on the Tennis Podcast. We are also joining the Tennis Channel team for live coverage of the HSBC Championships at the Queen's Club. Yeah, that means you... and I Catherine are going to be commentating together on the semi-finals and the final on the women's and the men's tournaments. I can't wait.

Me either. What could go wrong? And for everybody that's been clamouring for more Matt on camera, well, your dreams are about to come true. In the form of a rap show. for the last four days of both the women's tournament and the men's tournament at Queen's. We are very excited about it. Yeah, we really are. You can catch it all live on the Tennis Channel app from the first ball through to the last. Every match, every court.

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Before we get into the Cineraz of it all, we need to talk about Carlos Alcaraz and his semi-final win over Lorenzo Muzetti, who retired not for the fans this time, or maybe for the fans. Maybe for himself. 4-6-7-6, 6-love. To love, Mazzetti retiring, struggling with either a groin or a hamstring issue, something that became very apparent over the course of the third set and by the start of the fourth set, it was...

It was clearly game over for Lorenzo Mazzetti. And I think a lot of people thought he might struggle on, particularly because he's already retired once before on court, Philippe Chatrier.

I'm kind of glad he didn't because it was so obvious that he was unable to compete, which is a terrible shame given how beautifully... he had played and how competitive that match had been for two sets yeah he nailed this tactically from the start of the match i think he as it was going along started to build I think it obviously comes out with hope, but it's so often been the case that that hope has just been knocked out of him with a couple of...

you know, crushing winners from Carlos Alcraz, who just takes his time away, rushes him, he's all over him, and he doesn't have time to weave his beautiful web of shots. And this was different. This was Mazzetti... playing shots that seemed to make Alcaraz uncomfortable and also pulling the trigger himself, hurting Alcaraz. What were those shots that made Alcaraz uncomfortable? What were the tactics?

that worked for him. You know, it's interesting that because right at the start, Alcraz missed a couple of big chances immediately, which might have changed the whole trajectory of the first couple of sets. He didn't take those. And then I just thought... I thought there were a lot of good high balls that he was playing to...

to Alcaraz. He was sort of pushing him back. Alcaraz was really trying to step in and take the serve early. He was trying to return on the baseline. And if you think back over the last couple of years, he's done a lot of returning back with the line judges. And against Mazzetti, he clearly decided, I don't want to...

do that I don't want to give him the drop shot I don't want to have him controlling the the trajectory of these balls and the way these rallies go and so he was trying to step in but he was miscueing loads of them and he was and and I think Mazzetti was on to this and

and he'd figured out ways to just put the ball up high and... He was outlasting him and he was also pulling the trigger. He was having the better of the touch rallies. Alcraz's drop shot wasn't working. I think a lot of really the first two sets was Alcraz really being a bit off. He was trying to make... make it clear to us in the press conference that it's not always about me. Sometimes my opponent plays really well.

Yes, I think Mazzetti did play really well. But I think the main thing is Mazzetti didn't beat himself. He didn't doubt himself. He kind of, he actually thought, I'm winning it. I can do this. I can. beat you finally after all this time and uh and he was and by doing that his confidence grew and i mean really he probably should have been two sets to love up Yeah, there was this line from Alcoraz in his press conference, sort of...

brutally and casually dismissing what it is to him to lose sets in Grand Slam matches. He was like, it's just not a big deal to me. He said it in the, you know... very charming, light way, but it was a real flex. You know, it's...

It's nothing to me to lose a set over best of five because I know I've got it physically. I know I'm the type of player that goes through dips and I'll find it in the end. But I do... I think there was more to it than that against Mazzetti today because he was extremely close to going two sets to love down. And that is different to losing a third set when you have been two sets. to love up. He's never come from two sets to love down.

in a tennis match, in a best of five tennis match before. I'm quite sure he will one day. You know, if he'd gone two sets to love down today, I would still have given him a really good chance of winning. But I don't think it was a casual... losing of a set today for Carlos Alcaraz that he wasn't worried about. He was worried out there, to my eye. Yeah, mine too. I mean, he...

He kicked the bench at one point, didn't he, when he went to sit down at the change of ends. There was a lot of dialogue between him and the team. Which is quite hard on Chattery because they're... far away yeah they have to sort of shout up to them romeo and juliet balcony style Yeah, the body language wasn't great for a lot of that set. He was being outplayed. He was. I agree with David. He wasn't...

He wasn't at his best, Alcaraz. He played a very sloppy game to lose the first set. Just a string of errors. But Mazzetti was great. and was out thinking him, I would say, constructing points really well, ripping the forehand cross court a number of times really effectively, getting returns deep at Alcaraz's toes. Alcaraz was a little bit slow off the mark.

after his serve on that first shot but so there was jeopardy there because I agree like going two sets down is against a quality player like Mazzetti you're in you're in serious trouble even if you're Carlos Alcraz and we've seen Alcraz get in those positions at slams before against Zverev and nearly come back. Yeah, and just leave it too late. It's bloody hard to do. Yeah. So there was definitely jeopardy in this match. He played a good tie break.

Alcaraz having twice had a break in the second set and getting immediately broken back by Mazzetti, I thought he steadied well Alcaraz in that tiebreak and played a really good one.

I think it's obviously sad for Mazzetti to have to retire in a really big match like this. And I think the question for him now is trying to figure out the reason why that injury happened. Is it just... total accumulation of matches over the last couple of months he's played a lot because he's gone deep in all these tournaments it it doesn't strike me as a

coincidence that like the same thing happened against Carlos Alcaraz in the Monte Carlo final and I know that week he'd played a lot of tennis he had to come back from a set down a lot but like Alcarez, and he said this in his press conference Mazzetti, Alcarez pushes you physically and sort of mentally. in a different way to other players and he forces you to stretch a lot on the run and play really dynamic rallies and maybe it's all of these sorts of things combining for Mazzetti but...

That does feel like the next step for him to take, being able to live with Carlos Alcarez physically.

that might be an impossible step you know who can live with carlos alvarez physically you know he's got such a good five set record as we know but if he can just get a little bit stronger in that sense Mazzetti then his tennis was magnificent today and he said it was the best he's played against Alcaraz sort of tactically and I definitely agree with that so you know I think we all expected Carlos Alcres to win this match, so it feels harsh if we're being critical really.

who I thought played really, really well for two sets there. It was a high-quality match, but definitely something you can take away from it and try and just come back next year on the clay even stronger. Punchy prediction, will Lorenzo Mazzetti... Does he win this title one day? At this stage, I would say no. You know, because, well, mostly because of the two guys in the final. It just feels like...

They're probably gonna shut him out So yeah this stage I would say no I'd say the same for the same reason you know like Dominic Thiem got shut out here. You know, he's a great clay quarter. Mazzetti's a great clay quarter. But I think in the way that Nadal was always better than Thiem. Okay, Alcaraz and Sinnoh are not going to be Nadal levels here, but I think they might have just too much for Mazzetti, especially if, like...

He has to beat both of them. Like, you know, that was the thing. Like, even if he'd won today, Yannick Sinner was waiting in the final. Like, that is such a tall order. Beating one once? Maybe. Beating two of them back to back just feels so tough. And that applies to everyone on the tour, not just Mazzetti. Gosh, it's a brutal sport, isn't it? It is, yeah. Absolutely brutal sport. I'd love if he could win a Rome. Do you know what I mean?

We just saw Paolini get those Rome scenes. It would be amazing if Mazzetti could... Settle for a Rome. Yeah. Settle for a Rome and being a good dad. Lovely stuff. There are worse things. Carlos Alcaraz against Yannick Sinner. They are finally meeting in a Grand Slam final. After 11 meetings so far, they've met...

in Grand Slams. Of course they met here last year but this is their first meeting in a Grand Slam final. Just for context, Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer met for the first time in a Grand Slam final here in 2006 and that was their seventh.

career meeting so look it's not different order of magnitude numbers but it does feel like this has been a long ish time coming we're ready for this aren't we yeah i mean they've danced around one another quite honestly. If you consider that Yannick Sinner has won the last two and before that it was a year ago it was Alcaraz winning back-to-back French Open in Wimbledon. the expectation is they would have already met by now so yeah this is we're ready for it

And of course, the rivalry, the head-to-head has been an incredibly interesting one of late because while it's even-ish, Alcaraz leads it 7-4 and it was incredibly even for a very long time. Alcaraz has won the last four. And this is kind of rerunning the fun of the discussion that we had after the Rome final, where the question was, does Yannick Sinner have a Carlos Alcaraz problem? And the answer at the time, I think, was on balance.

Probably not at this stage, but boy, we're going to have a big data point in 48 hours time, aren't we? Massive. Yeah, absolutely massive. I think for, you know... Sinner is going to be interesting. I feel like he's come on since that Rome final. I think of an experience like this. winning the pressure moments against Novak Djokovic shows that, you know, just how much sharper he is than his first tournament back. Someone, I think, I can't remember whether it was on the live chat.

when we were doing that show and talking about does Sinner have an Alcaraz problem they sort of you know turned it on its head and said Alcaraz has a Sinner solution. Which I enjoyed, like, you know, semantics, but no one's got us in a solution right now on the tour apart from Carlos Alcarez. And what is that solution?

Because to me it just looks like, and prepare for some really jaw-droppingly erudite tennis analysis here, the solution looks to me like Alcaraz is able to play his best against Sinner. And Alcaraz is top level. I think is the top level still. It was interesting the way that Carlos Alcaraz talked about my final question to him.

I knew I was being given a question in the press conference because the moderator said, we'll take two more, that person and Catherine. But as he was saying that, the next question was my question. It was about the roof being closed. We'll come on to that, folks. So I'm thinking, oh, I've got a question for Carlos Alcaraz, but I actually don't have a question to Carlos Alcaraz. I asked David if he had a question. He was like, not really. So anyway, I just said, at this point...

The Sina Djokovic match was three games in. I said, if you... You've got a preference of who you play. And of course he didn't because he's Carlos Alcaraz. He's just excited he gets to play a tennis match. But it was interesting the terms in which he talked about the two potential final... It wasn't in terms of his record against them and how...

preferential it might be for him and his game to play them. He talked about how great they both are and what a great occasion it would be no matter who he gets to play and what an achievement it would be to beat them because of what great... players they are like that is a man that knows if I play my best I win no matter who yeah but what I think is interesting is that

In the early stages of this rivalry, we used to say Alcrest can't play his best against Sinner. But he has adapted, I think. And one of the things, I think, is changing the rhythm up. Djokovic sort of described Sinner today in terms of just relentlessness and the ball constantly coming at you. Well... I'd say Alcaraz is even better than Djokovic in terms of being able to give Yannick Sinner different types of shots.

to hit in a rally you know he can throw in slices he can throw in high balls but not just high balls like high balls with pace on in a way that Djokovic doesn't really do that sort of shot. So I think Sinner suddenly has just a lot coming at him that he doesn't get from anyone else on the tour. Plus Alcaraz has got great...

touch and hands at the net he tries to try and you know tries to get forward against him but there is also that thing of just it focusing him as you say and We haven't seen the lapses from Alcaraz against Sinner that we have seen against far lesser players over the last 18 months or so. So, yeah, it definitely does now appear to be a match that brings out the best in Alcaraz. But I think we shouldn't underestimate some of the tactical adjustments that he's made to be able to...

to create that. I also think, you know, I know he's beaten him on hard courts in this run of four wins in a row. The clay and the grass feel like times for Alcres to try and get Sinner. Like, I know Sinner's... He's terrific on clay. He's absolutely brilliant. We saw that tonight. But I just think that there's an advantage, Frau Kras, on the two natural surfaces, the slippery ones with the... you know, where movement is difficult. You know, Sinner in that...

There was a portion in that match today where Sinner wasn't quite sure of his footing. He was asking his team quite a lot about his footing and Alcarez can just, in tiny margins, just little things that he can try and exploit on the surface, but... I probably will end up picking Alcaraz to win it, but it's tight. It really is. I don't have a strong sense for that because Sinner... I never once really doubted Sinner.

Like, as soon as that match started, I had a little feeling for Djokovic as the day began. David's been extremely... David's very persuasive. David's so convincing. You'd have thought with my record that that would have worn off. But once Sinner got into that match, I just trusted him. And even against Mazzetti today, there were little moments where Alcarez was a bit like, ooh. But the point is that we don't feel like that about Alcarez against Sinner. So...

in the recent past. So that's why I'm going Alcaraz. But basically, I can't wait. I can't wait for this weekend. I can't believe we've got this lineup. It's as good as it goes. It's incredible. It's incredible, yeah. Matt anticipated this and went... early with the top two seeds in both singles finals at a slam in today's newsletter ahead of everybody else. I love that for Matt. Can you just remind us what that was for anybody who didn't read today's newsletter?

Do they deserve it? Get in the newsletter list, folks. We'll give you this one for free. Yeah, first time. They're all for free. The newsletter's free. That's part of my promo, David. First time getting number one versus number two in both the men's draw and the women's draw at a slam since the 2013 US Open. The first time here since 1984. Who was it in 84? It was Navratilova over Evert and Lendl.

Over McEnroe. Oh, yeah. John hasn't forgotten that. Oh, dear. Very, very good. Matt does a stat like that in every single newsletter, folks. You are missing out if you're not subscribed. We'll put the link in our show notes and I'll pop it on Instagram.

as well there's a good chance of very heavy rain for both of these finals good chance they're both going to be played under the roof frankly that seems to be the case whether there's heavy rain or not go off catherine because today it did not rain one drop at roland garros And the first semi-final between Carlos Alcaraz and Lorenzo Mazzetti, during which there was clear blue sky. Clear blue sky and glorious sunshine.

It was played under the roof. The roof was pulled over ahead of the match. Apparently, Amelie Merezmo told French TV that there were possible showers in the area, so they were... pulling the roof over and keeping it closed for the duration of the match. And look, I've never disagreed with Matt's roof-based...

I've always agreed with them but just never felt quite as strongly as Matt. Like today, I think I might have felt even more strongly than Matt that this was an absolute abomination. I'd say so. I think it ruined your day. I just, I think it's partly that it's particularly dismal in Chateau with the roof on. Feels like night time, doesn't it? I'm very grateful for the roof. I really am.

I know it's tough to put a roof on these huge structures. Like, I'm no architect. I get that they're working with limitations, but it's pretty grim in there with the roof on, like, relative... to what it's like with the roof off. You don't feel like you're having the Roland Garros experience. And I couldn't help but think of all the people that had paid God knows how much for that one match.

You know, they sold as Secret Sessions today, wasn't it? So they've paid for that match. It's a gorgeous summer's day. And you're sitting in this dreary, grey, flat... feeling it it vibed up but that was because the tennis was so good like it just didn't feel like a summer outdoor tournament it's like being invited to a midsummer barbecue and then being ushered into the basement upon arrival at your friend's house. Even when it's sunny. Yeah, it was... And this is on a clay court. Like...

Worst case scenario, one of the showers that is pootling around the area very vaguely does hit Roland Garros. And you pull the roof over while they're playing. It closes quickly. It's a clay court. It doesn't cause a stoppage if it gets a little bit damp the way... It does with a grass court. I just don't know what kind of nightmare scenario Amelie Maresmo thought she was preventing. Well, it certainly didn't materialise. I mean, in our commentary box...

We have a door out the back, so I was able to monitor the weather the whole match. And I kept referring to it on BBC Radio because I couldn't believe the decision. And I don't understand this policy of... If you start a match under a roof, you've got to finish it under a roof, even if the weather is bloody great for the next five hours. Because you've stuck it on for 10 minutes, that's that. I mean, bottom line.

You've got to start without it and then see how you go. We can cope. We've been coping with this for decades before the roof came along. Use it as a... a backup use it as something to benefit the the experience not just take it over yeah this was the day i've been fearing the the roof trigger happiness that we've seen from, it's not just this slam.

from slams generally in the past year or so, has concerned me. When we have had matches played under the roof when it has not rained. For a fear of rain. And I get it.

I do get a bit more at Wimbledon because, as you say, Catherine, with the grass, if it does just rain on the grass for even 30 seconds, that can cause, you know, a bit more of a lengthy delay. So I do... understand the caution but I don't necessarily like it and I just think that they've been too quick to close the roof on a number of occasions tennis is an

You know, these slams are outdoor tournaments and I think we should try and keep them outdoors if we can. Today was just complete, complete disgrace. It was... I don't know what weather forecast Emily Maresma was looking at. My app was fine. None of the ones I was looking at was suggesting that we were going to get rain. And frankly, even if we'd had a little shower... Keep the roof off. You can keep playing and let it pass and it'll all be fine. Like, why are we starting?

a match under the roof for a very minuscule threat of shower, which you could probably play through anyway. Like ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Can I rant about one more little thing just quickly? Split session semifinals. If we go back now and look at the last four years that we've been coming here, men's semifinals have been split sessions. 2022, Zverev turns his ankle.

has to retire. 2023, Alkraze gets cramp. That became a non-match for two sets. 2024, Roode has a parasite. That becomes... a non-match 2025 Mazzetti retires like every single year now we're getting ticket holders coming for a match and that match being severely compromised. And that's tennis, that's sport, that is going to happen. I think it's a total money grab to do these split session semifinals. And look, I'm sure the FFT would say, well, everyone knows that.

when they're buying the tickets and people are happy to buy the tickets but it doesn't it doesn't sit right they also say they can't possibly risk Only a couple of sets in a single session in an evening. But they're quite happy to... And all those Prisians that got off work early tonight to be there in their seats for 7pm. Heroic effort. I think that's how we should end part two. Congrats to you all. Yeah. Emily's told us. They can't... make it for seven. They moved heaven and earth. Yeah.

Well done then. Folks, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about a few other bits and pops that happened today and, of course, look ahead to tomorrow. Really? Come on, let's go. Hear that? That's the sound of my customers leaving. When your broadband doesn't work, neither does your business. Will Sky Business keep me up and running, no matter what?

With 4G backup and our stay connected guarantee, better believe it. Let our dedicated Sky Business team handle your switch today. That's my like it. Here we are. A couple of pints. Great. Neck oil, yeah? As requested. So, what did you get up to this weekend? Well...

Funny story, actually. I befriended this panda, discovered he had a beautiful singing voice, taught him how to harmonise. We got a record deal, went on tour, went platinum in Basingstoke, then broke up due to creative differences. Right. So that's why there's a panda giving you the finger from across the street, then. That's right, brother. Stick your neck out. Beavertown. Never normal. Visit drinkaware.co.uk. Enjoy Beavertown beer responsibly.

Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast where the clock is ticked past midnight. It's 20 past midnight. Everyone's leaving. It's just us and the bin men. We actually still have to talk about a few significant things that happened. well, now, yesterday, here at Roland Garros. We had two very different women's doubles, semifinals. Both of them played on...

Caught Simone Mathieu while the men's double semifinals were played on Longland, of course. We had Sara Arani and Jasmine Paolini delivering an absolute beatdown to Mira Andreva and Dana Schneider. Six love, six one. in 61 minutes. Goodness, I would not have expected that. Yeah, and by contrast, Anna Danilina and Alexandra Krunic needed two hours and 46 minutes to beat Ekerion Hazumi, 7-5 in the third. So it'll be... Danilina and Krunic to play Irani Paolini in the women's...

doubles final. In terms of the men's doubles final, it'll be Joe Salisbury and Neil Skubsky who will face Marcel Grenoes and Horatio Zabajos. They defeated Evan King and Christian Harrison in a thriller earlier on. on Longland today. We've also had some big action in the wheelchair events. We have 19-year-old Taquito Oda. He has beaten Martin de la Puente, 6464, to reach the Roland Garros wheelchair singer. final where he'll play Alfie Hewitt who won 7-6 in the third over Gustav Fernandes in

Two hours, 46 minutes today. Saved match points as well. 12-10 in that third set tiebreaker. I spoke to Alfie afterwards. I mean, it was a really lovely embrace between those two. Such great sportsmanship at the end, I thought. But Fernandes was amazing the way he took that on the chin. This is a rematch of the Paralympic final that Hewitt and Oda played here and caught Philippe Chatrier last year where there were match points both sides.

They fell into each other's arms and then they had a rematch of the Australian Open, which Hewitt won, avenging that loss at the Paralympics. There's such history between those two. And Hewitt told me that he's now, for the last few months, been training specifically to play against Oda, who's a left-hander. And he actually has brought with him a left-hander. hitting partner to this tournament just so that he could be prepared for if he faced him in the final. Here we go.

Thank goodness it is Taquito Oda in the final. Oda's going for the Roland Garros three-peat, having won here the last two years, while, as you said, David Hewitt, is going for the second leg of the calendar slam. won the title in Melbourne. Oda's also into the men's wheelchair doubles final with 54-year-old Stefan Uday as his partner. Just a 35-year age gap there. They'll play the top seeds, Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid, in that wheelchair.

men's doubles final in the men's court event. The final will be top seed Nils Vink against the unseeded Israeli Guy Sasson. 45 years old Sasson. He took out the second seed Sam Schroeder, 6'4 in the third in his...

semi-final, denying another All-Dutch final in that event. Vink is going for a third Roland Garros title, but Sassen is the defending champion. Roland Garros last year being his one and only major singles title to date. That final will... come hot on the heels of Vink and Sassen winning the quad wheelchair doubles title together.

earlier on today. They beat the Turkish player Ahmet Kaplan and the South African Donald Rampardi in that final. And in the women's wheelchair singles, the final will be between Anik van Koot, the Dutch second seed, and... top seed Yui Kimiji. What a... What a renaissance she is having. Kimiji having taken out Didi de Roots, conqueror Zhao Hui Li, who we talked about yesterday. She won that match earlier on today. She is the reigning Australian Open champion, Kimiji.

If she wins this final, then her calendar slam is on as well. And she'll be going for the career slam at Wimbledon because that's the only major missing from her. cabinet and the women's wheelchair doubles title was decided today. In fact, just bear with me because it was still going on when I was putting this agenda. They got onto court very late indeed, and it was won by Yui Kimiji and Keiji Montagne, 4675107.

in the deciding tie break over Lian Wong, the Chinese second seed. So already a title for Yui Kimiji. Not bad going at all. Right then, we'll keep you updated about those wheelchair finals over the course of the weekend. Of course, tomorrow we have the women's singles final, Coco Gough against Arena. Sabalenka. And important news that landed in our inboxes earlier on today as a prelude to that women's singles final. Quoting from the press release here on Saturday the 7th of June starting at 3pm.

there's going to be an opening ceremony. 17 musicians will deliver a show-stopping orchestral performance featuring iconic, modern and feminine pieces. They will be accompanied by 28 dancers whose carefully choreographed movements will create a kaleidoscope of... geometric shapes driven by resolutely contemporary aesthetic. How much do we trust the FFT with iconic modern and feminine pieces? Somewhat concerned.

Somewhat concerned. What's going to happen in the main event after the iconic modern and feminine pieces, Goff and Sabalenka? What a tough act that's going to be to follow for them. Yes, I'm rather more confident in that, to be quite honest. Everyone in our predictions so far has gone for Sabalenka. Everyone. That's really interesting. Because, you know...

Goff has beaten her in a grand slam final. She would regard play as her preferred surface. Or, you know, I think she'd probably pretty much say that was her best surface. Maybe hardcore. There's no way Sabalenka's saying it's her favourite surface. So that is an interesting set of predictions, Matt Roberts. Well, I'm here to offer a small update. Reggie's gone for golf. Okay. Okay. So make of that what you will. Reggie of two years ago here, was it?

Yes. No, it was at the Australian Open. At the Australian Open. Every prediction wrong. And became a legend. 14 out of 14 wrong. He met Mary Carrillo here last year. The rise and rive. Rise and rise of Reggie Bodle. He's been on the 1% Club. What a guy. Yeah, legend. Is he going to be right tomorrow? I'm going Sabalenka. I've said Sabalenka from the start of the tournament so...

And I do think you should reserve the right to be able to change your prediction based on what you see through the tournament. But what I've seen through the tournament for Marina Sabalenka has generally been extremely, extremely impressive. And, you know, I think she's had real, real tests in the last couple of rounds, you know, in terms of Jung Shin Wen, who'd just beaten her in Rome. And, you know...

who was on a 26-match winning streak here, and she's passed those tests. She's convincing to me in the biggest moments generally, and I am... I am going to go with Irina Sabalenka, but I do not think it's going to be easy. I think probably three sets is what I will end up predicting. Because Goff, you know, you've got probably the best... best attacking tennis in Sabalenka and some of the best defensive tennis in Goff, but equally...

I wouldn't pigeonhole them in those categories. Sabalenka has added so much to her game. Goff can attack really well, really dynamically as well. So there's so much to like and enjoy about this. The US Open definitely is in my mind, you know, when I saw what Coco Goff did to Irina Savalenka, but I, as I said yesterday... I really felt like the crowd was a big factor in that. I just have to think that Sabalenka keeps ahead.

a bit more in this one and comes through because I believe right now she's the better player. I think I feel the same. I think this match could actually look and feel quite similar to that US Open. Do you? I think it would be better quality. In terms of the feel, yeah, I think there's going to be a point where...

Sabalenka's eggs are scrambled, and she could go off the rails here, which she did in New York, and I think this time she won't. But I do expect... eggs to be scrambled big time i kind of hope so it's i want to i want to scramble three sets i've made myself hungry

I can't wait. I honestly cannot wait for this weekend. It's a dream, isn't it? Yeah. It's a dream lineup. It is. Wonderful. I'd agree with the two of you. I'd ultimately go with Sabalenka. But I think she's going to have to play... really well because i think goth will make her come up with the goods and i just think she's such a champion now that she will have the goods

OK, well, we'll be back to talk about it no matter what happens on our penultimate Roland Garros podcast. Only two to go. We have a mascot for this show. That mascot is Roxy. Hello, Roxy. Right, Roxy. What a good girl she looks. Roxy's a five-year-old Belgian Malinois German Shepherd Collie Mix, which means she's very smart and has endless energy. She must be so clever. Those are all incredibly intelligent dogs.

She loves running, hiking and playing at the dog park. I'm trying to turn her into a tennis fan. This is Jessica Weaver, Roxy's owner, talking here. She says, but for now, she prefers chasing real tennis balls to watch them on. watching them on tv i recently completed my fan career slam well done and have souvenir tennis balls from all four tournaments and roxy frequently looks at them clearly wondering why anyone would keep perfectly good tennis balls on a shelf

instead of playing with them. And she resembles Roxy, a sort of slightly smaller, cuter version of the police dogs. they have doing the rounds here that I have to really hold myself back from petting because I'd say of the...

Of the police forces at the four grand slams that go around with the sniffer dogs, I would say the French look least approachable. They look least amenable to my... dog insanity and you have experience because you have tried with all of them i actually haven't tried here because they terrify me a bit i'll come with you if you like um but i would like to because they're lovely and uh roxy is absolutely lovely so

Thank you, Jessica, for making Roxy today's mascot. Hello to our mascots. Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Maisie. And hello, Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, we have some shout-outs. We have Mark Savitsky. Hi, Mark. Hello, Mark. I'm Mark Woodford. Filipousis. Yeah.

Ross Hay. I saw Mark Ross Hay around here. I can look eye to eye with him. Six or seven years. Yeah, yeah. I saw him the other day. What was he up to? I think he works for one of the broadcasters here. But he never looks like he's completely into it when you see him wandering about. But, yeah, he did once give me a nice interview about Roger Federer, who, you know, was his compatriot. Do you remember that insane interview he gave me during...

The pandemic? I do. He called you back, didn't he? He called me back, yeah. He did an interview, and then we had a chat about it, and then while we were sort of having a bit of a kind of chat about it, you said... Hold on, Mark Rosso's calling me. Hello? I'm going to have to dig that out. It's a hazy pandemic memory. But anyway, Mark, thank you for reminding me of that bizarre moment in my life. Next, we have Trip Johnson. Hello, Trip. Hi, Trip. He is from Nashville, Tennessee.

That checks out, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Like Steve Johnson, the American player who retired the other year. And Trip has suggested Trip Owens, who is a doubles player who made a US Open semi-final. Trip! Tripp, you are a legend. That is amazing. That's incredible work. It's good work, isn't it? Yeah. I don't think even David would have got that.

Well, I wasn't given a chance. You just went straight in there with what Trip had said. You're right, I wouldn't. Thank you, Trip. Great name. And finally, we have Paul Owen. Hello, Paul. Like Paul Harhouse. I'm on fire tonight. David stood up for the shout outs which I've enjoyed as well. Paul is from Brisbane.

In Australia. Very good. I like Brisbane. And Paul says, I've been listening to the pod from the very beginning. Good work, Paul. I've heard every episode and you guys feel like friends to me. Aww. However... I don't deserve a shout-out because I have been playing pickleball. Oh, well, let's just end this now, shall we? They have turned one of the courts here.

into a set of pickleball courts and they had the audacity to invite us to a media pickleball-a-thon. Never has an email entered my trash faster. Invite us to a... Tennis session. Can I say, Paul, for you, I'm going to let it go. Thank you for being a friend of the Tennis Podcast. Thank you, Paul. We appreciate your honesty. Paul, trip. And Mark. Good work, Mark. You gave us three...

possibilities to talk about former players. Paul, Tripp and Mark, thank you ever so much for your support of the Tennis Podcast. Thank you to all our friends of the pod. Thank you to The Athletic. We are proudly part of The Athletic Podcast Network. We have two more of these shows to go. It's going to be an awesome weekend. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow.

Your business is going places with three business. Enjoy business class roaming in EU destinations, whether you're video calling from Vienna. or networking in Naples. Unlimited UK plans with EU roaming from just £10 a month, increasing to £10.75 in April 2026 and £11.50 in April 2027. Search three business. From £10 per cent when you buy 20... Here we are. A couple of pints. Great. Neck oil, yeah? As requested. So, what did you get up to this weekend? Well...

Funny story, actually. I befriended this panda, discovered he had a beautiful singing voice, taught him how to harmonise. We got a record deal, went on tour, went platinum in Basingstoke, then broke up due to creative differences. Right. So that's why there's a panda giving you the finger from across the street, then. That's right, brother. Stick your neck out. Beavertown. Never normal. Visit drinkaware.co.uk. Enjoy Beavertown beer responsibly.