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Hello and the warmest of welcomes to the tennis podcast after the conclusion of the Sunshine Double. Singles titles for Irina Sabalenka and Novak Djokovic. in Miami to complete the month-long... FOMO spree. And we'll be looking back on that and looking ahead to the clay court season in earnest over the course of the next hour or so. Some of you are with us live on YouTube. A very warm...
Welcome, if that is the case. And just a standard hello, if you're with us as a podcast, as per usual. This is a broad church and all are welcome. Hello, David Law. How are you doing? Hello. Well, thank you. I managed to get sunburned today in about 14 degrees, which I think is a very solid hall thing to do. So, yeah, I feel feel a bit dizzy. But other than that, great. That is so British.
Matt is here on the comeback trail after what has been described as, quote, his lowest ebb. How are you doing, Matt Roberts? I'm better than I was on Saturday. Thank you for asking. Yeah, we will not be... not be talking about football today there'll be no smug look on my face like that sometimes is just just a disastrous weekend of football to be quite honest so let's move on
Yeah, we're going to move on very quickly. The first thing I need to do is correct the fact that I said that Novak Djokovic won the Miami title at the start. Oh, I love it when that happens on a live show. The reason why I've done that is because I have enormous picture of Novak Djokovic right in front of me. because I'd sent a still of his face to a doctor friend of mine for confirmation that it was indeed a sty that he was suffering from during the final. So I very much have Novak Djokovic on.
the brain right now. And for that reason, should we perhaps start with the men in Miami and the title, folks, that was won by Jakub Mensik, 19-year-old Jakub Mensik, in two tiebreak sets over Novak Djokovic, his first ATP title. at Masters 1000 level. I don't think we can take the credit for sort of bigging up Jakob Mensik. A lot of people have been doing that for a long time, but I think we have all been Mensik.
believers haven't we i just i'm not sure i saw it coming this soon and this big david how about you it's interesting
He's been around for a while and in our subconscious and we've been watching him get notable wins and hearing people talk about him and yet he hasn't had the hype. And he hasn't had the hype from us, certainly not me. And I think that's mainly because I just... haven't watched him closely enough I've probably listened to the hype of other players and kind of jumped on the train with them quickly because I was curious
And he's sort of now forced his way into the consciousness by his performances. You know, the fact that he beat Jack Draper in the first round in two tiebreak sets, I think you could... You could read something into that right there. I found it very interesting that he said he was very close to not even taking to the court for that match because of a knee problem. And it was almost like a...
a miracle cure from the ATB trainer who gave him some last minute treatment and he managed to get out on the court. And he was fantastic against Draper. And I watched that match and I did think, crikey.
If he carries on playing like that, and I knew nothing of any knee injury at that point really hampering him in the short term. I knew he'd been hampered a few weeks earlier at the Australian Open. But I thought, if he carries on playing like that, it's going to take a heck of a performance to beat him. wasn't poor but his serve is maybe the best on tour i i i really think you're looking at a serve there that
easily hits aces. He's hitting in the teens or the 20s in three set matches all the way through Miami. He's out acing Jack Draper, Taylor Fritz, Novak Djokovic, everyone. It's just a nightmare for them. And he backs it up with a really good baseline game. I mean, he does look proper. He looks like a real player. Doesn't get the hype. I wonder whether now that may start to change. Oh, I think it's already changing, David, big time. Matt, what did you think of... Let's stop at the final, shall we?
What did you think of that performance? What struck me most about it? And I've watched it just minutes ago because it was rain delayed. I was settling down to watch it. Prime time last night. Tune in to see... rain tumbling down in Miami ended up being in the middle of the night our time um so I've I've caught up with it today which is a bit annoying because I've had to watch it knowing the result but weather weather be weathering um And kind of my biggest takeaway from it was that it wasn't...
It wasn't a spectacular performance from Jakub Menzi. It just felt like a really, really solid couple of sets of tennis. The serving is spectacular. But also in quite an unspectacular way, like the numbers are spectacular and the reliability of it is spectacular. But I don't know, it just all feels so reliable and repeatable. And I know these are really unsexy adjectives.
with which to be describing a very exciting young talent, but he already feels extremely solid to me and dependable as a tennis player. Yeah, I think my biggest takeaway was kind of like if you're Novak Djokovic and you're around long enough, you are going to come up against players that you've kind of... and inspired and shaped in some way. And Mensik...
You know, he's a bigger frame. He's a bigger unit than Djokovic. He's got sort of more power in that way, and you see it on the serve. But he does do a lot of Djokovic-like things, and those are words that we would use about Novak Djokovic as well. in terms of being so reliable and so dependable. And I think when I've watched Mensik in the past, I've mostly thought that, yeah, he's looking extremely solid without too many weaknesses. The forehand technique is a little bit...
I do think maybe that shot can be rushed. But the backhand is so good, like really good. And the first serve technique is... Brilliant. As you said, he hits aces really easily. His service motion is actually quite a lot like Nick Kyrgios' I think. Very easy, very fluid, generates pace on it just extremely, extremely easily. Seems like a very natural motion for him.
But I think when I watched him here, he he rose to big moments better than I had realized in the past. And, you know, to beat Novak Djokovic in two tie breaks really does take some doing. I had a long. scroll through Novak Djokovic's results to try and find other times that he'd lost in two tie breaks. And I think the last time it happened was to Juan Martin Del Potro at the Olympics in 2016. And even the last time he lost two tie breaks in a match.
was four years ago to Lorenzo Mazzetti in the famous retired for the fans match at the French Open. You know, he lost the first two sets there Djokovic on tie breaks and ended up winning. And it was all the way back in 2018 that he last... lost a match having lost two tie breaks and that was to Marco Cecchinato at the French Open. So these are stats which really...
put into focus just what a feat that was by Mensik to come out on top in those big moments against Djokovic. And that's what impressed me most because there were little times when, you know, in the first set tie break... For example, Djokovic throws up that lob and Mensah hits that incredible backhand smash. And Djokovic just stares at him afterwards. And it was kind of like a moment of Djokovic realising, wow, normally I... I do something like that in a tie break, and I come out on top.
But he's really sort of got me there. And then in the second set, Menzik serving 5-6. Djokovic plays an unbelievable first point. Defensive everywhere. Gets to love 15. And a lot of players against Djokovic would crack. in that situation but he didn't he held firm he held his serve he got it into a tie break and he played another excellent tie break and yeah I just think
My biggest sort of takeaway from Mensik here was that he's tougher than I realised. I thought he was solid. I thought he was good. But I didn't know that he necessarily... quite yet had it in him to meet those big moments against his idol. You know, I was worried about this final. He idolises Novak Djokovic and there was this big rain delay. I just thought, oh no, this to me screams slow.
a start from Mensik and Djokovic kind of jumping on him but it was anything but that and yeah I was really impressed with him I was so worried about that element of this final, Matt, the hero worship element. It just grinds my gears when young players walk on court, you know. beaten and thinking about the posters that they had on their wall as a kid. It's all very, David, am I allowed to say it? Am I allowed to mention Pedro Casheen? It's all very Pedro Casheen asking for a shirt, isn't it?
Jakub Mensik is not a shirt asker. I don't think we can, I think I'm going to categorically say that after the performance in yesterday's final. He joins a long tradition of ATP players winning their first title with terrible haircuts that they will, I'm sure, come to. to regret. But it feels like a phase that these players need to travel through in order to get to the other side. He's where Jack Draper was about... about nine months ago, quite literally, on the haircut front.
In terms of the Novak Djokovic of it all, we will come back to Mensik and this trend of, you know, it's all players born in the 2000s that have won. the three biggest ATP titles of the year so far, but just staying on the final for a moment and the Novak Djokovic of it all. Was this a positive week, positive tournament for Novak Djokovic?
Because he's not in this to reach finals, is he? Is this part of a building block towards something or is this another indicator that he's just not quite there? and that this week it was men's sick and next week it'll probably be someone else and there's enough of them now.
that it's going to be a struggle for him to win titles, which is what he is still in the game for? It could be either of those things. I really don't... know confidently which one it is and it might even be both at the same time if that's possible i i think it is Absolutely the sort of building block he needed towards where he wants to get in terms of his own form and fitness. And he definitely looks like he's got hunger. And I think...
Having Andy Murray is just a massive part of that. We've said all along, it's about keeping interested for Novak Djokovic when you've won as much as he has. And I do think emotionally... going to the dark places time and time again, repeating it. You know, it's one thing to get that adrenaline rush enough to go and beat Alcaraz at the Australian Open the way he did. Then... Obviously, an injury came into play there, but it's almost like he can do it short term.
but maybe you just can't grind match after match, round after round, week after week in the way that you used to. But I'm encouraged on his behalf. I think his tennis was really good this week overall. The only thing is he did beat all the players that he's always beaten. I think if he'd have lost to some of those, then there would have been a bit of a concern. But he's always beaten Grigor Dimitrov. Dimitrov looks great until he comes up against him or Sinner.
That's generally what happens. But look, he's doing it when he's twice the age of Jakub Mensik. That is something not to forget here. The problem is that then he's going to come up against lots of these young lads. And has he still got it then? I actually still think he does. I don't see a massive drop off in terms of his level. I just don't think you necessarily know when a bad day is coming like you used to. He only had the bad days.
at the smaller tournaments in the past, now he sometimes injury gets in the way in the Grand Slams. That didn't used to happen. I disagree with you. I mean, I agree with you that I don't see a dramatic drop-off, but I think you rarely do. This is a...
This is a sport of fractions of a percent, isn't it? And I do think, OK, he had a really unfortunate stye situation yesterday and there seemed to be a... weird issue with sort of moisture on the court and he hit the deck twice nearly three times in the in the opening set didn't he and you know obviously all of that adds to all of those sort of
unfortunate things add to this sort of picture of a guy slightly in decline. I mean, inevitably in decline. He is nearly 38 years of age. It is extraordinary, as you say, David, that he's reaching finals at all at this age. He's not in this to reach finals. He's in it to keep adding to his records to try and win his 100th title. That's what he's hanging around for. I do see drop-offs in percentage points here and there. I don't think he's as good at...
absorbing weight of shot as he once was. He seems to get rocked off balance slightly more easily. And he just seems off balance more than he used to. And yeah, those... Maybe the stye is just a freakish thing that could have happened at any stage of his career, but it just feels like it is always something now with Novak Djokovic. And the likelihood is that it will always...
Now, he could get lucky. He was only one match away this week, but he did get a pretty kind draw through to that final, I think, and he still came up. I do think he will reach that 100th title because I think if it comes to it, he'll probably enter Astana. I don't know. Somewhere. Somewhere. Whatever name I pull out here is going to be rude. But insert 250 here where he can get over the 100th title line. But I'm not sure Novak Djokovic has it.
Matt, settle the debate. I'll see you at Wimbledon, is what I would say about Novak Djokovic. That is not a writing-off. That is me saying, on balance, if I had to say, will he do it at the top level again? I don't think he will. Shockingly, I think I come down somewhere in between. Like, I do think it was... Like, if you ask me, was this a positive week? We are never not on brand.
If you ask me, was this a positive week for Novak Djokovic, I would say yes. Because, you know, he found something with his serve this week. His serving numbers were, I mean, actually... A couple of his performances on serve were kind of the best of his entire career. And if he can really get that shot firing, then yes, as David says, absolutely. Wimbledon, suddenly, you know, you feel like he's, of course.
going to be in contention there and just like level wise i just think this was the best he'd played outside of a slam for quite a long time and you know obviously the olympics is the one but sort of just in terms of like just a basic tour level event he just seemed to have his game he seemed to have the hunger the motivation all of that
just seemed to really click for him in Miami in a way that it hadn't done. And Matt Futterman in The Athletic put it as like Djokovic is hunting again. And I kind of like that expression. Like, I don't think Djokovic can just...
rock up at a slam now and win it. I do think he needs these sorts of weeks to build some reps going into it, some confidence. So from that point of view, I do think it was a positive week, but it doesn't... actually really changed my opinion about Novak Djokovic, which is that it is all about the slams in terms of...
where I judge him now and where he judges himself ultimately, I think. And I do fall down on the same side as you, Catherine, there in terms of like not writing him off winning these slams, but... Things keep happening to him at the slams, injuries or just a little drop in levels so that he can't quite get past a Sinner or an Alcaraz. And we've had quite a lot of that over the last year now. You know, as I said, I kind of come down there somewhere in the middle. A very facetious point is...
do we think he had a T-shirt in the bag with number 100 on? I do. And extension of that question, do you think there was... It's not facetious, Matt, it's important. Was there one for Andy Murray to pop on in the coaching box? You know? How many other ones at your expense, Andy? Well, Goran used to have to wear them, didn't he?
Goran used to have to wear them, and I bet Goran wasn't that keen. Don't you think, David? I don't think so either. I wouldn't have thought so. But he did. He did. There definitely was one, because we know... This is what players do. And this is definitely what Novak Djokovic does. But, you know, other players do it too.
Caroline Wozniacki, you are the worst offender I've ever seen. There was a chap in the crowd who just kept standing up to get his 100 T-shirt on camera. And I did think, you're going to have to watch that. Would Andy Murray have worn the T-shirt? I say this. We won't know. Fulham fans were singing Que Sera Sera, we're going to Wembley after about 90 seconds on Saturdays, which was very...
which was very having a hundred t-shirt in your bag, wasn't it? So we can all do it. Were you singing that? Yep. It's a very hard life lesson been learned this weekend. I'd do it again. I've got a 12 in a row t-shirt. The youngsters are here, aren't they? I mean, one of them's serving a drugs ban. But, you know, again, this is not a stat that needs deep analysis, is it? The fact that the three biggest titles of...
2025 on the men's side have been won by players born in the noughties. We are, David, in a new era, are we not? Yeah, and I have found it interesting to... In the absence of Sinner, that it is Draper and Mensik who picked up the kind of benefits of it. And Fonseca's had his moments and flashes. Feast has had his two quarterfinals back-to-back. it does feel like this is a change. And I just find it a really interesting period in men's tennis now. I mean, I think it's been a bit anything.
other than Alkraus-Sinna and Djokovic has been a bit meh in some ways at some of these tournaments. And I mean...
Although I enjoy aspects of Daniel Medvedev, I certainly enjoy his behaviour and his personality. I'm not a huge fan of his tennis, to be honest. And I feel overdue this impetus, this young... breath of fresh air and i i like the fact that that we're now going to come into three grand slams in three or four months where there's a load of these young lads who will really fancy themselves as not just you know
Having a bit of a run, maybe getting into a second week, but expecting themselves to go deep. And I like that. I like that. And they feel convincing now. Their physical strength is now matching their potential and their ambition.
I am annoyed that we don't now get a hardcore grand slam to see whether Mensik and Draper can translate this at the very, very top level. I'm really excited to be... going on to clay now but just in terms of the sunshine double and what it means like I just I love the sunshine double but tennis is always that it's
The sport is at its best when it means the most and when you feel like you're building towards something and it just feels like, oh, we should now be heading into a slam and having all those conversations about, OK. Can they translate this? I am interested to see all these guys. You know, in a way that... I don't always feel like this about hardcore. tournament winners. But I think all of those guys that I mentioned can be a big factor in the next three months on clay, next two months. Matt?
Yeah, look, I think I would have some reservations about whether, like, Draper and Mensik can... can repeat this on the clay but i suppose that's not what you're saying you're saying being a factor which is i suppose shapes of shot work on the surface um we'll see yeah look I think the thing for me, my sort of big take on this Sunshine Double being won by Draper and Mensik is that...
It's such a sneak peek of what I thought the ATP was going to be like post-Big 3. I thought it was going to be this absolute land of opportunity for players. Like that, who we know are talented, but we didn't necessarily think were like absolute best player in the world level, but they could win some of the biggest tournaments. And what actually happened is Yannick Sinner came along.
And to a certain extent, Carlos Alcaraz came along as well. And they just closed that door last year. You know, they've won the last five slams between them. Yannick Sinner had incredible success at the Masters level as well. And so there's just this very, very small window where Alcaraz is having a bit of a shocker at the moment and Yannick Sinner is obviously banned, where there is that opportunity for Mensik and Draper to come along and win the biggest titles.
done it they've absolutely seized that opportunity but i'm just very aware that that that sort of all slams shut again to me when when yannick sinner comes back and when I personally think Carlos Alquez will find his top level again. And I think those two are still a level above what we're seeing right now, even from these guys.
Like, I'm intrigued to see whether they can do it and whether they can really keep bringing it. But I am slightly viewing it through a lens of, well, this is a bit of an odd period that it counts, but it sort of... Doesn't really give us a huge look into the future, I would say. Tough scene for Carlos Alcaraz to have been reduced to having, to a certain extent, come along.
reigning French Open and Wimbledon champion Carlos Alcaraz came along to a certain extent. But he hasn't got the consistency of the big three. You know, like Sinner has shown that kind of big three. Is not slamming doors shut on anybody? No. Is it in the way that you feel like sinner?
Everybody is going to feel like they might have a chance against alcoholics, I think. And I think right now they would be right. Let's see. Let's see what the clay has in store. We will talk a little bit about the men. And again, when we come back to generally look ahead to the clay. But that's it for our wrap up of the ATP event in Miami, unless anybody has any other bits of business.
No? Okay. Moving on to the women and the title won by Irina Sabalenka, 7-5, 6-2 over Jessica Pagula in the final, a replay of the US Open final of last year. Jeopardy in the opening set, if not necessarily quality. A slightly disappointing final, David, would it be fair to say, but an overwhelmingly... worthy champion in arena sabalenka yeah i think that's all well put i i guess it went
Kind of how I expected. I think the conditions were difficult for the players. I don't think Irina Sabalenka played the clean sort of match that she likes to play where she's just hitting relentless winners. There were one or two games where she hit. a lot of errors you know suddenly a rash of them and sometimes just kind of got away with it because she did it at 40 love um but Although the first set was close, I don't think you can get a matchup that is more...
indicative of something that's on one of the players' rackets than the other. And you can see it on the face of Pegula. She would just look so fed up of the fact that she's playing... normal tennis the sort of tennis that is fine against most players and yet those deep ground strokes down the middle are suddenly stepped around and swiped for a winner by Irina Sabalenka because that's how she plays tennis. And I do think it's a tough matchup generally for her. I think...
Pegula was excellent over the course of the week. I love watching her retrieving skills. I think the first time I became aware of them really was at Indian Wells a couple of years ago when we were there and we were watching her play Petra Govitova and have saved seven or eight match points and just incredible retrieving into the corners. used that exceptionally in the other wins that she had.
That only gets you so far against Sabalenka because she'll keep coming after you. And she plays her own percentage game, which is I'm going flat out for winners. And it's not always just power because sometimes she tries for drop shots. shot winners and different shots like that. I'm never not impressed with Sabalenka, the way she just comes back and has an appetite after a disappointment. She very rarely has a kind of letdown. There's just ravenous...
desire to win and be a champion. You know, I think my son said to me the other day when he was watching tennis, do these players ever get tired of winning? You know, like the best ones. I'm looking at Sabalenka. That is impossible. She just loves being a champion and a winner. And I love the look in her eyes when she's holding a trophy. And equally, I feel very impressed with Pegula that she's just so consistent.
there are levels and there's a clear difference between those two players' levels. Yeah, just thinking about... Comparing Sabalenka since losing her Australian Open final to Zverev since losing his Australian Open final. Like this, she's by no means had the wobble that Zverev has had. But, you know, I did question her appetite just a little bit in that. in that Indian Wells final. It didn't look like that intense, ravenous hunger was there. So the fact that it seemed so back...
in this Miami final. And in fact, the whole couple of weeks in Miami. Just really impressive, I think. And, you know, there's very evidence of it. If it not being a given that you get back on track after these devastating losses, okay, she's won Grand Slams, she's world number one, she's in a slightly different boat. to Zverev but you know these things can knock you off track and I think maybe it did knock her just slightly off track but you know she steadied that ship and I am
Very excited about what Savalenka can do on clay this season. Will she take a further step forward on clay this season? Yeah, I think that becomes the big question, doesn't it? Because she reached a couple of finals on the clay last year in Madrid and Rome and lost to Svantec playing absolutely. brilliant tennis she then got ill didn't she at Roland Garros so kind of wasn't able to quite give her best in the in the biggest clay court tournament of the year and then also like
grass as well. She's got over 10,000 points now, Sabalenka, for the first time, but she doesn't have any Wimbledon points on her ranking because she had to withdraw last year right at the last minute. You kind of think she might even be even further ahead.
as the world number one had she been able to played that major last year where you know I think we're still sort of waiting to see it but I really do think there could well be a Wimbledon one year where just everything clicks for Sabalenka and she kind of just absolutely like charges through the field playing playing brilliant, brilliant tennis. It just feels like that might happen there. But I don't know. I was actually maybe more impressed with this final than...
than you were, and in particular with Sabalenka. I thought she was awesome in this. I really did. I thought she was absolutely brilliant, considering that she'd lost. her two biggest finals this year, as you said, in Australia and at Indian Wells. She said afterwards she didn't want to let it get in her head that she was losing finals, but she just... Played so well in this. Over 20 forehand winners.
And I feel like the thing about Sabalenka is that she's kind of making improvements to her game all the time without you really realizing it. And then suddenly you think, gosh, Sabalenka's slicing. And Sabalenka's playing with angles. Forehand slicing mid-rally sometimes. So often. You kind of think...
She did not used to do that. And now it is a shot that she is so confident with. She's got to a point where she can just use it. They had a stat on the WTA website that 20% of her shots in this match were slice. And that was... really really important i think in those tricky windy conditions she just gave herself a different ball to be able to hit and and give
give Pagula a different look. And I really thought she played well. She's only the third... woman in history i think to reach the australian open indian wells and miami final all in the same season it's a really hard thing to do to reach you know those three
big finals right at the start of the season straight away. And obviously this win puts us like... different complexion on her season because if she doesn't win Miami you're thinking well she's been she's been really consistent but she hasn't been been getting over the line the fact she does get a win makes you think oh you know she's clearly sort of
been the best player this year consistency wise and and she's got a couple of titles to show for it as well uh so yeah i i i i agreed like the clay is a really really interesting part of the season now for Sabalenka because I don't think she's going to ever be as dominant as she is on the hard courts. But I... I don't see a reason why she can't win a Stuttgart or Madrid and even potentially a Roma or Roland Garros, like if the conditions are right for her and she plays her best tennis.
Will Irina Sabalenka finish her career with a career slam? I think so. I think so. And I think I'd have said no to that in the past. I think we've probably had that hypothetical and I've said no because of the improvement she needed to make on clay and how far ahead it felt like Chiantek was on clay. Tennis is sometimes about taking advantage of a moment, and perhaps this is the moment, this is the year for Savalenka, playing like this, with Shriantek not quite at her best. Perhaps...
Perhaps we'll look back and this will be like her window to try and win Roland Garros. I don't know. You look at that game and it's almost impossible to imagine that game not winning at least one Wimbledon. Probably. Probably multiple. So it feels like, will she win the French Open to me? And I think I do back her to win the French Open. And I think, you know, if she ends up on a...
Getting a Wimbledon and on a quest to finally get over that French Open line, you know, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic style, I back her hunger and her desire to sort of carry her somehow. Yeah, I would love to see that. I do love a quest. So I really would love to see that. Why I love the clay court season so much, I feel like I love it more every year. I love looking forward to it after these tournaments just gone. And I think it's because... You don't have to, it's already happening, David.
It's happening right now. It's got up to a bit of a shaky start because I'm watching Christine Gareen at the moment against Alexander Pritchard, which is... Maybe not the bit that I'm looking forward to the most, but that's what's on my telly at the moment. I think, is it Richard? Yes. No, yes, it's Alexander Richard. Yes. Swiss guy?
I couldn't pick him out of a line-up. No, me neither. But just the idea of throwing some of these players into the mix now that we see the way Andreva's just played. and won Indian Wells. And the form she's in, you know, to throw her in with a Svantec who's maybe not as convincing looking as she normally is, but who... always wins the Roland Garros. You know, it's too tantalising for words to think of over the next couple of months that are ahead of us.
Good week for, or good couple of weeks for Jasmine Paolini, wasn't it? Although she has just split with her coach of 10 years, Renzo Furlan. What do we read into that? honestly don't know like really was quite shocked by that didn't didn't see that coming at all it was very amicable sounding split. It was a very lovely message. I don't think Paolini has ever done anything unamicable in her life, Matt. Imagine how many amicable breakups she's had.
Yeah, I think you're quite right. All her exes definitely speak extremely highly of her. Whose don't, I wonder? I mean... Most of them. Maybe she's, you know, thinks she's got the most out of that partnership and it's a sign of ambition and trying to do even more. You know, kind of like when Jessica Pagula split with David Witt.
went to the two marks. You know, I think we maybe questioned that at the time. You know, they've had so much success. But actually, you know, she's kind of kept up that consistency and she's also...
reached the slam final and, you know, there have been some really high moments for Pagula. So, you know, it was definitely a surprise and I definitely was a little bit concerned because you kind of feel like... things are so good with jasmine paulini just sort of want to keep it all together but you know i i hope it's i i hope it's a sign of you know really really having big ambitions and trying to do even more than she already has done
Just before we move on, a word for Jessica Pegula stealing Irina Sabalenka's margarita live on air. It's the content you love to see. It was perfect. A margarina, as they're very keen to call it on Tennis Channel, I think. Yes, I wish I had a name that could be so seamlessly sort of... inserted into a cocktail like that. Hers is very good as well, isn't it? Because it always works during the Australian Open with the Rod Laver arena when she's...
when she's so good on that court. I know David hates all these puns, but I think it works. Those two work quite well. I can feel Hannah's... thought processes working around Catherine's name right now. She's already come up with Catherine Weinecker, which works for all the meanings of wine, yeah. That's a... Matt. That was horrible. I thought that's where you were going. Low ebb mat is mean. Okay. That's a 5 out of 10.
That's a 5 out of 10, Hannah. I don't mind it, but I think you've got more in you. She's distracted now by the revelation that Matt Roberts is horrible. OK, that's it for Miami. Let's turn our attention to folks, the clay, and a couple of bits of news before we talk specifics about the clay. Doria Kazekina is going to represent Australia.
from now on. She announced this on her social media. She said Australia is a place I love, is incredibly welcoming and a place where I feel totally at home. I love being in Melbourne and I look forward to making my home there. As part of this, I'm proud.
to announce that I will be representing my new homeland Australia in my professional tennis career from this point onwards obviously there are parts of this decision that have not been easy I want to express my thanks and gratitude to my family coaches and everyone has supported me throughout my tennis journey to date. I know this isn't without some sadness that she's hinted at there. This must be quite a...
a traumatic thing to have to do. But overall, this is a really happy story, I think, for Daria Kazakina to have found a home that is... embracing her and where she feels safe. And I hope they really do embrace her. I hope that when she plays in Australia, she really gets vociferous support because I don't know what's... What's more, you know, it's almost it's almost makes you more Australian that you've chosen chosen them and they've given you.
home where you feel safe you know I'm British by accident but she's chosen Australia and that's something to be really proud of I think on both sides And I really, really hope she gets a very warm welcome there. I think she will. I think so. I agree. I think Australia has a great history of accepting. People...
immigrants, people who want to represent Australia. One thinks of Jelena Dokic. The only time they kind of turned against Jelena Dokic was when she was going through such a difficult time and was saying she didn't necessarily want to play for them for a period. And then... That was patched up. But you think of Isla Tomljanovic. There are many, many others. And they get fantastic support. And, I mean, look, from the very start of this...
following the invasion by Russia of Ukraine. Maybe the one player above all other who stood up and refused to... be quiet was Dariya Kasikina. She was the one who made it clear how she felt and that she wasn't standing alongside any of this and that she was prepared to actually say that. And I'm not knocking others who don't because it's easy for me to sit here and say.
the bravery, the courage that she showed, I think was extraordinary. And I remember a few weeks ago, there was that tournament that had her nationality up as Spain because she spent such a long time in Spain. I think that there was a... bit of confusion there but it doesn't really surprise me that she's taken this this route and I hope it does lead to happiness for her and and I can I can only imagine next year at the Australian Open
that people really will take her to their hearts and support her to the hilt, you know, not just within Australia, but internationally as well, because I think it's, I think it's a really brave thing to have done.
I couldn't love it more. Yeah. It's so nice to look at that statement she put up. Like my heart just... skips a beat when I see a tennis player see a notes app statement I just thought oh my god but and then I read it I was like oh I'm so pleased for Kasekina as you said like It's come about because of something really hard and really upsetting. I'm thrilled for her. And yeah, as you said, I think she will get great support and I hope she does. Should we have a quick sensation ruling?
I think not a sensation. I think she's too good to be a sensation. Yeah, it's nothing to do with... She falls into the de manure category. I'm going to hold my fire until I hear what local Australian radio reporters are saying on their reports in the next row down from us when they recover her. If she gets called one, well... That's definitive as far as I'm concerned. I'm ruling no, but... Me too, as a mark of great respect. We've ruled no on Alex de Menor.
And I stand by that. Marit Safin is joining Andrei Rublev's coaching team. They're starting together in Monte Carlo. Fernando Vicente is obviously Andre Ribley's very long-time coach. He's remaining on the team as the main coach. But Marit Safin, who we know... He's been close to Andrei Rublev. I think he talked a few months ago about some advice and just general moral support that Maren Safran had given him recently as a fellow, shall we say, very...
Very demonstrative tennis player, very fiery tennis player on the court. This reporting from Sofia Tartakova, the Russian journalist. I think she's Russian. This is an interesting one. I know that Andrei Rublev has been going through a period of real... soul searching and I really, really hope that is fruitful for him. He is a good egg, I think, but has been a very troubled egg.
And I can certainly see why that's something that Marit Safin would really relate to. Yeah, this is a very interesting one, an interesting time in Andrei Rublev's... career to kind of be hitting the super coach button. David, you've always been a bit of a rubble of doubter, I think. What do you think of this? Is it too late for him to reframe his narrative, to reframe who he is as a tennis player, you know, the quarterfinals guy?
I don't really view it quite like that. So my answer is yes and no, because I think it's not too late for him to get the very, very best out of himself, which I don't think he has to date because of... The troubles that he has. And I feel terrible for him. The torture that he goes through trying to...
deal with this world he's in and these situations on court that he's in. And at the same time, I've never shied away from the fact that I find it... really uncomfortable to watch i hate watching it i refuse to have it on if my kids are watching you know when he's smashing himself in the leg and things like that and drawing blood it just i can't handle it um
But so I think it is absolutely possible for him to reframe his how people like I think of him in those terms. I think he can overcome that. I hope he can. I really do. And I think. therapy is the way to go with that. I do think a guy like Marit Safin, who has clearly listened to him and talked to him and shared with him what he went through.
and has also been to the very top of the mountain, I think he's a great hire, really, for Andrei Rublev in part of that process. And I definitely think he's a very good player. But that's all I think he is. I don't think he's a great player. I don't think we're going to see him doing much more than he can do. I just think he might beat himself less. I just don't think he...
If he comes up against Sinner with that game, I'm not sure, unless Sinner has a bad day, and some of the others, whether that hurts them. I just don't think it does, really. Over the best of five cents, I think he's always going to be a hell of a competitor. But that game has a ceiling and I don't think it is going to get much higher than what it is right now, other than him hopefully being a bit kinder to himself. Maybe he'll add to his game.
I don't think he can. That's what Sinner has done. I don't see where... I don't see the dexterity in his hands. I don't see the... talent really and I know that might sound a bit mean but it's just an honest view I think what you see is what he's got
I don't think there's loads more that he's physically capable of doing with his game. Maybe tactically he could change something. But, OK, well, I don't see him bringing opponents into the net or hitting angles. I don't see himself coming to the net. He's not very good at volleying.
I just don't see it. I think what you're seeing is what he's got. Tell me I'm wrong. I suspect you're right. Yeah, I think I... probably agree i just i just wish him well um and and uh yeah i think it's fun to have marit safin as a as a presence on tour as a as a coach Yeah, but whether it will make a really fundamental difference to his game, I don't know. Whether it's too late, I don't know. But I do wish him well and I think it's a fun development for men's tennis.
Clay, folks, it's happening. It's already happening. It's happening as we speak. The WTA is in Charleston this week. Jessica Pagool is playing there, Madison Keyes, Jung Chin Wen, Amanda Inisimova, Emma Navarro, of course, and Daria Kazekina all in the draw. So really strong field there. They always get a strong field in Charleston. WTO is also in Bogota, where Camilla Osorio and Marie Buskova are the top two seeds. Does anyone care to make some...
wild, big picture predictions for the WTA clay court season. I want wild, folks. I want... I want big. I don't want Igor Svantec's going to win the French Open. Give me more. What about Igor Svantec goes into the French Open without a title? Yeah. Yeah. It's not wild, but it's something. When was the last time it happened? Yeah. It's pretty wild. Yeah. And very plausible right now. Possible. Is it a prediction, Matt, or is it a this could happen?
I mean, as I'm saying it, I may be thinking it's more likely that she does win a title on the clay before Roland Garros, but then doesn't win Roland Garros, just because... slams are so hard to win, even Prigus Fiontech at Ronan Karros. She's pretty good at it. If she has dropped a little bit, then perhaps it's that slam where the others bring it.
I don't know. Maybe at this point in time, maybe that's my prediction. Igor Shontek doesn't win Roland Garros. That would be mine. I don't feel right now that Igor Shontek is going to win Roland Garros. I think she's... In a tricky place, I do. And I, as I said before, I totally hope... She gets back in a better place. And I would like to reserve the right to change that prediction as we get closer to Roland Garros. But right now, if you had to predict right now, I would say Igor Shontek.
won't win Roland Garros. And I'm not sure I've ever said that going into a clay court season. Well, I think she will win Roland Garros. So it might not be a very bold prediction. So you need a different wild prediction then? No, I don't have one. I think...
that we're going to see more really, really good things from Andreeva. I think what you may well find is she's the one who starts winning the... the titles in advance and she goes in as the one everybody's talking about, but then she ends up winning the thing.
I could definitely see that. But then Sabalenka's in there. I'm very interested. The one player I did forget to mention because we only really had one match from her after when we spoke about her on Thursday. But I'd love to know what Alexandra Iala's like.
on clay i've never seen her play there's a few players that i've just never seen play on clay you know she had an incredible match against jessica bagula the other night um so that's kind of what i'm looking forward to most is seeing how all the players that have done well on the hard courts month or two play on the clay but I still think I actually think maybe the women the women's
French Open is less interesting, even though usually we see way more names. There's way more recognisable matches and names, but you get one or two more standout favourites. I don't really know who the favourites are in the men's. draw at the moment because Alcraz has got some improving to do. Djokovic is the age he is. Sinner has been out for months. It's interesting.
I think even if Shontek does end up winning the French Open, I still think it will end up feeling like a more open French Open than it has in the last couple of years. I think... There has to be more to come from Jung Chin-wen in this clay court season. She's had a tricky start to the year. Sabalenka feels more reliable on clay. as the world number one than she has done in the past. Andrava, I do think it's going to feel slightly more open, personally.
ATP starts this week in Houston, Marrakesh and Budapest with three to 50s. In Houston, Tommy Paul and Francis Tiafoe are the top two seeds in Marrakesh. and Lorenzo Sonego are the top two seeds and in Bucharest, Sebastian Baez and Pedro Martinez. are the top two seeds. It's day one of the clay court season and Burtick van der Zansgroep has already found a way to lose to Richard Gasquet in the year 2025. From... From a 6-4-4-1 double break. I am obsessed with him.
I want him in the Fantasy League trade transfer window on Wednesday. Bertic, I'm coming for you. I don't think you'll have much opposition. Great, I'll snap him up. What I can tell you, I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you this, but we had a test run for our Fantasy League trade and transfer window this morning to check that all the tech worked. And David was trying to flog Thomas Mahatch like he was a viral disease. This is why I was annoyed that David got him in the first place.
David's always doubting Mahatsh. Maybe with reason, but he's always doing it. Sorry to lift the curtain on you here, David, but David was... Trying to flog Novak Djokovic and Thomas Mahatch like they were going out of fashion. Only because there were good stuff that you two had got that I fancied. So I guess you're not predicting big things for them this clay court season then, David. Oh, no, I think Djokovic can still do stuff. I don't think Maheshka will.
See? See what I mean? Matt, who is going to, in David's words, do stuff on the men's side? On clay. Yeah, I mean, I think it's possible. No. Who is going to do stuff? By the way, you rejected my Thomas Mahatch approach, Matt, you massive believer, you. I'm not showing my hand in the draft. It's a draft. It was all mind games. I'll give it another one. Who do I think is going to do something on the clay? I mean, maybe Fonseca, to be honest. I think he might just explode at one point and...
One of the 1000s? Yeah. Have a really deep run. Semi-final or final. What about Zverev? What about Spirit? It's looking like Alcaraz is not going to make up that gap, is he? He's going to be third seed for the French Open. Yeah, I mean, Zverev loves Madrid, doesn't he? Loves those conditions. If he can't get it together there, then... I remember he said earlier in the season, part of the...
Part of perhaps his thinking of playing on the clay earlier in the Latin American swing was to try and get some reps because he's traditionally a slow starter on the clay. And, you know, we saw that he was really, really poor. But that form has...
has continued on to the hard courts. It doesn't feel like a clay thing. It feels like his form is bad at the moment. So whether he's... Because I do think... I do kind of think the French Open is maybe his best shot at winning a slam because I think he's worse on the grass and there's a big gap between him and Sinner on the...
on the hard courts, whereas on the clay, without a sure bet, like Rafa Nadal has been there for so long, feels, as David was saying, it feels a little bit more open going into the French Open, given the doubts over Alcaraz. Djokovic's age Sinner the fact he hasn't played so much like there is still a window there for Zverev if he can if he can improve his form and be playing
like some of the tennis we've seen him play on the clay over the past few years. But right now, I wouldn't be predicting that. I'm not sure he'll win a title on the clay. I actually think, by the way, Zverev would need to... He needs some form. He needs to have belief because I think his belief is all over the place right now. Sitsapas is an interesting one because...
He's had that win. And his game is so perfectly suited to the surface. That's why I love the Claycore season. Was that a wild prediction? No. No, I don't know. So you're predicting Igor Shontek and Carlos Alcaraz to win the French Open? I don't know whether I'm predicting Carlos Alcaraz. I think I'd actually probably predict Sinner.
I think I would predict Sinner right now. I know that's not wild, but he's just so convincing, isn't he? Well-rested Sinner swanning into Rome still is the world number one. He's taken a... He's entered Hamburg between Rome and Roland Garros. I wonder if that's a backup entry.
Just in case he comes in cold to Rome and loses early. But couldn't he... Wants to have the option of getting matches. Couldn't he do that anyway? Don't they hold a wild card for a really top player like that? To me, it slightly signals he intends to... He intends to play. Yeah, maybe the default is that he plays. I think Fonseca's going to win the French Open. What? This year? No, you don't. Yeah, I do. You don't actually think... He's unreal!
He's unreal, isn't he, how good he is on clay? Catherine's asked for a wild prediction and is now annoyed at a wild prediction. Because I don't... I don't think you believe... I do. It's just come to me. You think that is the most likely scenario right now. I just think... Don't say can. I just told you. We all think he's good, David. David, David, David. We all think he's good. Catherine, it was four years ago that I said, I've got it in my diary in April.
In four years' time, Carlos Alcraz will have won the French Open. I said that when he was still faffing around doing nothing. If you said to me... Hang on, when was Carlos Alcraz ever faffing around doing nothing? He's like the youngest world number one. Neither one of you two went with me on it. Neither one of you. You said, yes, you'll win it one day, but I'm not putting a date on it. I cannot believe you're trying to...
To do the I spotted Carlos Alcaraz thing. I'm not saying that. I know you spotted him, but I'm the one who believed in him when it really mattered. David, if I thought that you believed it... This would be great. But you don't believe that. I do believe it. I do. I do. I think he's going to. You think the single most likely scenario. No, I'm not saying it's the most likely scenario on paper, but that's what I think is going to happen based on my hunch.
And based on what I've seen. Because there's nobody else that's convincing enough. And he's just going to roar through the draw. And win it all. Like Guga. Now I'm out of nowhere. Who's with me? If this wasn't a live podcast, I would be stopping the tape right now just to have a moment. Well... I can only give you what comes to me in the moment, Catherine.
Marcelo Arevalo and Matej Pavic won the men's doubles title and Mira Andreva and Dana Schneider won the women's doubles title. What a season, Andreva and Schneider. A having. Yeah, that's really fun. Really, really fun. They even managed to make me almost like want to watch the rain delay because they were just having... They were such good vibes during the rain delay. Yeah, they were. They're great. I love it. I love seeing it from young players having camaraderie.
helps them figure it all out, doesn't it? Or it certainly looks like it does to me. Right, folks, that is it. For the Sunshine Double, it might be it for the tennis podcast. We'll let you know. Will we make the clay court season? I'm not sure. It has been fun. Mark it in your diary, hasn't it? Pipe down, David. I'm trying to do a Steve Fergal's promo.
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window as a thank you for securing your spot early that deposit is fully refundable until you book your package or until september the first later this year so if that sounds good and it does Definitely sound good. Go to toursfortennis.com forward slash podcast. That is tours, the number four, tennis.com forward slash podcast to book your place for the best that tennis has to offer.
If you are a friend of the tennis podcast, then provided David and I can get back on track, we're going to be recording our next edition of Tennis Relived tomorrow. It is about the history of... The tie break. That can't wait. I can't believe it's tomorrow. Like, we haven't even got... We haven't even got... tomorrow just to get over this no we'll be we'll be right here again in this position in about 12 hours time yeah it's like the Miami schedule
We have all these days and yet somehow we have to come back tomorrow. I am genuinely looking forward to it though. Matt's been sort of teasing us with the odd message about his research and the interviews that David's been doing. And I think it's going to be a really interesting show. So I can't wait for that. That'll be up this week for Friends of the Tennis Podcast and also for Friends this Thursday, a show that...
Quite worryingly, my mum is more excited about it than she's ever been for a tennis podcast show. It's our monthly live YouTube exclusively for friends. It'll also be available as a podcast. And this one... is about mine and David's time working on the ATP Champions Tour. We feel the statute of limitations has passed and we can now spill all our secrets.
Thomas Enquist isn't going to sue us, is he? Actually, I take that back. I've got no stories whatsoever about Thomas Enquist. He's in the clear. Goran should be worried, though. Yeah. In fact, he's contributed. Yes, we have a Goran voice note. We have David Law's memory bank. And we have my story of how I try to get upgraded on a flight to Chile by wearing a fake sling. So if that sounds fun. If that sounds fun, then the link to become a friend of the tennis podcast is in.
our show notes. We have a mascot for this episode. The mascot is Freddie. Freddie is owned by Sean Bartell. This is a big... Oh my God, it's a sausage. Oh, Freddie. Oh, what a regal looking sausage. Sean says, Freddie is the love of my life. He's a rambunctious six-year-old Dachshund born in Salisbury, Maryland, about two and a half hours east of his hometown.
Washington, D.C. Freddie spends much of his day watching and studying Tennis Channel, its matches and its analysis, all while Dad is gone for work. Freddy is a dream. He rarely barks, never gets aggressive, although he did once bark at Alexander Zverev. For that, Dad gave him multiple treats, apparently. Freddie's benefit is his style. His Halloween costumes are the stuff of legends. He has been, oh my God, there's a list. This is incredible. The Pope. A US postal worker, a rabbi.
And President Joe Biden. Why am I not seeing a carousel of photos of that right now? Sean, please do get in touch with those photos. In 2022, he competed in the Wiener 500 race. in the nation's capital and showed that sometimes style does beat out substance in the race. Freddie led most of his heat until he saw the finish line and did a U-turn right back to the start when he finally finished the race.
The race was long over. Fortunately, he still won best costume. This is one of my favourite days with him and one of the best days of my life. The guy can't run a race, but he knows how to make an entrance. Vicky has told us that there is footage of this race. Oh, my goodness. OK. That's going to get my mood back on track. Footage of Freddie competing in the Wiener 500. Freddie is absolutely...
I love a sausage and he's a gorgeous one. So thank you, Sean, for bringing Freddie into our lives and providing such excellent colour on an excellent dog. Hello to... our mascots Phoebe, Maisie and Roger hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff and it's over to Matt for shout outs We have Heather Hughes from Leesburg, Virginia. Hello, Heather. Hi, Heather. Like Alison Hughes, the umpire. And like Heather Watson.
Very good. Alison Hughes is from Wokingham, which is where I grew up, all very near Wokingham. There you go. That's excellent Alison Hughes knowledge. There aren't many people from Wokey and Matt. She makes the list. Although the cat that you, I don't know whether it still is, whether they have the same opening sequence, the cat from the Coronation Street opening. Credits was also from Wakingham. There we go. Wow. What do we know about Heather?
We know that Heather has two rescue dogs named after tennis. We have Wilson, who's been a mascot in the past, and Coco. Oh, yes. Love that. Oh. Awesome. Love it. Awesome. Thank you, Heather. We've also got Anna Bigelow, who lives in the San Francisco Bay area. Hello, Anna. Like Catherine's team member, Callan Skyer. And on the pod tomorrow, Blinkover. Yes. Yes. What do we know about Anna?
More dog news. Anna says, I succumbed to curiosity and did a DNA test on my now seven-year-old rescue dog, Dia. And Catherine, she wants you to know that she... Dia is 12.5% Rottweiler, 25% Staffordshire and 62.5% Beagle. I'm not sure those... I can't. What would have had to mate with what to eat for those numbers to work? Like two thirds of a beagle is mated with. Yeah, it's oddly precise, isn't it? Yeah, I have my doubts about canine genetic testing available on the free market, but...
That is fun. Thank you, Anna. I don't mean to cast a shadow over... What's the dog's name? Deer. I don't mean to cast a shadow over Deer's heritage. Whatever it is, I'm sure it's wonderful. I'm sure whatever mated with what, it was a happy time. Thank you, Anna. And finally, we have Marianne Brooks from Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Hello, Marianne. Hi, Marianne.
And Marianne says, it's Marianne from Cape Cod. My husband Dave and I met you outside the media garden at the US Open and it remains my fondest memory of 2024. I remember that. Cape Cod is where the opening scene of Splash is set, where the upskirting was happening. Yeah. A Marianne like, a little bit like Mariana Alves, a former umpire. Yes, that's very good, actually.
You have 1% redeemed yourself there, David. Thank you. And then the rest of me will redeem myself when Germain Fonseca wins the French Open. Look, David, if he does, we will clip this up. If he does, we've got great content. Legendary. Exactly. Mariana, thank you very much indeed. Mariana. Anna and Heather, thank you very much indeed for supporting the Tennis Podcast. Hope you enjoy the Tennis Relived episode coming your way tomorrow and our Champions Tour YouTube live show on Thursday as well.
as a podcast if you'd like to become a friend of the pod the link is in our show notes if you'd like to check out Steve Fergal's tennis tours packages it is toursfortennis.com forward slash podcast tours the number four tennis forward slash podcast. We will be back with our regular show next Monday, probably. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you then.
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