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Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Marion Bartotti. This is Bianca Andreescu. I'm Mats Villander. This is Mary Carrillo. This is Pam Schreiber. This is Yannick Noah, and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast. Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. Pinch Punch first of the month. It is Thursday the 1st of May. Three days have passed in Madrid since we were last with you. Tennis though was only played...
on one of them because Matt Roberts, we kind of broke the news live. Well, live for us. in our last podcast about the nationwide, the region-wide blackout in Spain and Portugal, which caused a cessation of activity. in Madrid and all sorts of chaos including tennis players having to walk places and read books. Unprecedented things were happening.
Yeah, I think the favorite quote I saw to come out of the... blackout was jack draper who was very proud of himself for reading 10 pages of a book he was initially like i read four pages and then he was like actually no i think it was 10 and i was like Go on, Jack. Do we know what the book was? We don't. And would we like to speculate? David. I think it would be a sports autobiography. I think that's a good shout.
But bless him, he was really proud of himself and everybody, it was a real revealer of character, wasn't it? You know, of course Iga Svantec loved the blackout. Of course she did. I kind of feel like most people who answered the question seemed to love the blackout. I mean, absolutely. Iga Schwendek is somebody who has reveled in telling everybody what a voracious reader she is. But it was.
Quite instructive, I think. Not only for tennis players, but for life. Just how much everybody enjoyed suddenly this... This relaxation of nerves because they weren't connected for a while and they could just... Be in the moment and have a conversation and think and just let life happen a bit more rather than scrolling for nothing, which we all... Yeah, I don't know. I do take your point. But I also do think there's a lot of sort of...
We have this with planes, don't we? Like if I have to get a long haul flight without Wi-Fi, it's sort of an instant panic attack. It's not necessarily that I don't need to be scrolling. But I do really struggle with not being connected, with feeling disconnected, feeling like... those connections sort of aren't available to me if I want them. And I don't think that makes me, you know, a symptom of the world going to pop. on TikTok at a time. How did you get on before Wi-Fi on Play?
Life improved, definitely, when Wi-Fi on planes became a thing, for sure. Yeah. We're all different. Certainly my anxiety about flying decreased when Wi-Fi. I remember that, yes. Being able to sort of text people and feel in touch and not just... sort of isolated and alone and running away with my thoughts. But yeah, well done, Jack will Draper, for reading 10 pages of...
possibly a sports autobiography. And I know that sounds, I've made that sound glib, but I actually do think it was very sweet. They've played catch up, haven't they, in Madrid and they are pretty much, well, they are caught up. We are at the semi-final stage of the women's and the quarterfinal stage of the men's. So the women's semi-finals are both set to be played.
Today, as we come to you, Thursday the 1st of May, and they are Iga Svjantek against Coco Goff and Irina Sabalenka against Alina Svitolina. Svjantek against Goff. Svantec, I think Matt Roberts has been fascinating this tournament in Madrid so far.
Yes, I think she's kind of had a fascinating year, hasn't she, Igor Sviontek? I feel like we've spent a lot of time talking about her and thinking about her. But this tournament in particular does appear to have been perhaps the most... fascinating yet because well in the two matches that we've had since we spoke on monday She's done an extremely eager Svantec thing, which was win the first set six love against Diana Schneider and everything looking great.
And suddenly it really felt like everything was beginning to click for her game. It was a perfect set of tennis. She seemed to really like the Diana Schneider ball that was coming at her. And I thought, right, OK, she's now going to win the second set. by a similar scoreline. I really thought that that match was only headed in one direction. But out of nowhere, for seemingly no reason... She suddenly lost her form quite dramatically. And that second set was just an error fest from Igor Svante.
Schneider then started to grow in confidence and play much better. And the third set was a real tussle. And in the end, Svantec wins it, comes through. I was actually quite alarmed by that match for Igor Sviantek because I know that we often talk about how important it is when players win without their best. And I stand by that. I do think that's a massive skill that all these players need to have.
But it was the way it went from pretty much her best to really poor very, very quickly for seemingly no reason that sort of worried me a bit for Svantec in that match. I didn't feel like she came out of it with all that much confidence. Going into a match against someone who's beaten her already this year in Madison Keys is in that category of players who we know can cause her trouble with that big strike. And what happened?
The most un-Iga Sviantec thing, and that she loses a six-love set. The first time she'd lost a six-love set in four years. The first time she'd lost a six-love set on clay in six years. These are just not things that happened to Igor Shiontek. And yet it was kind of symptomatic, I think, of the headspace that she was in going into that match, of the state of her game right now, which we know is not at its best.
Then when that set happened, I thought, oh, well, I don't really see a way back for Igor Shvantec here, quite frankly. I thought she was going to lose that match in straight sets. Keyes was playing January tennis. She was absolutely... locked in, hitting such a big ball all over Svante. But then something else odd happened, and that match completely flipped very, very quickly. Keyes didn't quite keep up that form, and Svantec...
To me, it almost felt like losing the sixth love was a bit of a release. And she went off court and she came back in the second set and she was better. She was tactically smarter. She was spreading the core a lot better. She was getting keys, moving.
was pinning keys in the backhand corner at times she was protecting her serve better So I come out of that match thinking, well, actually, that was a real positive for Igor Svantec, that she came through that nadir of losing a six-love set and didn't... Didn't sort of panic and stress and... actually kind of flipped it on its head and and turned it around but
We're now in a situation where she's going into a match against Coco Goff, who she used to absolutely dominate in terms of their head-to-head. Goff has actually won their last two. I used to feel like I knew what was going to happen in Chiantek-Goff match. I do not have a clue what is going to happen today. And that is a really, really exciting place to be. I don't know what Igor Shiontek we're going to get.
And, yeah, I'm just, as you said, use the word fascinating. I'm just absolutely fascinated by how all this is going to play out. It has been really, really interesting. Do we know what Coco Gough we're going to get, David? How would you assess what we've seen from Coco Gough? This is starting to feel, to me, like quite a big tournament for Coco Gough in the context of her season.
which has been, you know, since the United Cup, that's the only final she's reached this season, isn't it? And that was a team competition. OK, she beat... Igor Shontek there and that's huge but you know it hasn't been the season that she was hoping for it to be or that we all thought it was going to be when she you know just burst into 2025 with so much sheen and sparkle. And confidence and feeling of self-assuredness, which just has evaporated over the last few months.
version of Coco Gough we're going to get. encouraged on her behalf that she's running into some form and that she's finding solutions in matches and then from that because she isn't a panicker she's somebody who can get down in a score line and stick in there, figure it out, and then she can find her form. And I think that that's what she's doing. I did find it quite alarming what happened to Miran Draver in their match yesterday. I did too. Probably the first time all year that we've seen...
The Andrava of a year or so ago, where she just suddenly looked... Petulant. And she should have won the first set against Coca-Cola. She's outplaying her, really. Very high quality, very closely fought. But she was outplaying her in the way she's kind of outplayed virtually everybody all year, certainly in spells. Coco Gauff was digging in, was improving.
just completely tailspun and disintegrated as a force on the court. And she looked petulant. So I don't know how much to take from a Coco Gauff perspective other than that that's what she's really, really good at. The head-to-head with Svantec is fascinating now. That makes it so much more interesting than when it really felt inevitable that she would lose.
I still don't know how much to take Madrid as an indicator of anything, really, in relation to the clay court season. It's not just the women, it's the men. I look around and I think, well... Are these players going to be a force in Rome? And Ronan Garros, Jakob Mensik, Diallo, Jack Draper, people who are big hitters, you know, who are having these great results here. I don't know how much of an indicator it is.
I do think you're looking at four players in the women's semifinals here who could well be the four players in the semifinals of Roland Garros at the same time, you know, because they're playing so well. Is it more of an indicator for women than for men? Because the Madrid conditions kind of assist. power don't they yeah maybe very that's a very reductive you know altitude does more than that but that is a reductive assessment of what they what it does and
I mean, power is a factor in the women's game. Again, you know, Irina Sabalenka says hi. We'll talk about her in a minute. But less so than it is for men. So I do just wonder. Yeah, I think that's fair. But I also think Unusually in a way, the women's tennis feels more of a banker right now than the men. I don't expect Irina Sabalenka and Igor Sviantek not to make the latter stages of these tournaments. Same with Coco Goff, really. I mean, there's one or two others I'd put into that as well.
But with the men, I really don't know what's going to happen over the next... sort of month i have no clue at all i think it's wide open and he's going to start winning everything david and you're going to suddenly know where you are i think we i i mean That has always been my perceived wisdom of, oh, he has a nice three months off now and he just comes back out. He's got a new girlfriend. And Alcaraz is injured and all this stuff.
I didn't know he got a new girlfriend. That's interesting. I don't follow these things. He's going out with a model. They are very imaginative, these tennis players. I know you're shook that I said model there, David. I could have said marine biologist, but I didn't. You could.
But I don't think... I think there's every chance Sinner comes out and looks like his legs don't really belong to him for the first... three matches that he plays because he's just not used to match conditions it might be the complete opposite but i really wouldn't expect the world from him whereas We come into these semifinals in the women's and I just think that they're both fascinating because the most informed player is the least...
decorated in Elena Svitolina. She's the one who's in probably the form of a life right now. But no, I'm absolutely pumped for both. Yeah, me too. I think it's really well set up, this Madrid women's tournament. And just on Coco Golf... To me, it's fascinating that the Goff we saw play Andrava is the same tournament as the Goff we saw play Jastrzemska in her first match.
Was it? Right. Like. It was so bad in that first set from Coco Goff. And in that match all together, between them, they combined for 116 unforced errors, Goff. Yastrzemska does have that effect on a tennis match. I feel like all tennis matches that carry stats like that involve Diana Yastrzemska. Is that fair? That probably is fair.
That's one for you, Simon Briggs. What came to mind for me was Mary Corolla's expression, winning with quiet numbers, which was something that she said on the pod last year. And she thinks it's really impressive when someone can win with quiet numbers. And what she means by that is not have a huge number of winners or a huge number of unforced errors, but just be in like total control of your game.
And not need to do too much with the ball because, you know, you're kind of maybe letting your opponent miss or you're just putting the ball in the right place to just get you through points and rallies and play smart tennis. And that's what I thought Goff did.
against, well, Bencic, first of all, I thought that was that kind of performance, and against Andreeva. I thought it was a really good set, the first set. They were going, they were kind of locked. Andreeva maybe slightly had the better of it, but they were right there with each other. But then Goff just kept up this really, really good, solid level and let Andreva sort of tailspin out of there, as you said. And it just looked to me like someone who was...
Once again, in control of her game in a way that she hadn't looked in the first set of the tournament. That switch has been really quite quick, which makes me think... You know, I'm trying to take the lesson from the start of the year, right, where we thought, oh, this is a new Coco Gauff and this is who she is now as a player.
It makes me think that we can never be quite sure that that's going to happen. Maybe the unforced errors are going to come again today against Igor Fionte, or maybe not. I do think we always know what we're going to get from Coco Gauff in terms of... her being a tough person to beat and her competitive instincts are always going to be there and she's always going to be like the best athlete on tour but
Whether the game is there seems a little bit more match to match at the moment. And I've been encouraged by the last two. But as you said, I'm not sure what's going to happen with Fiontech today. And I can't be sure what's going to happen with Goff either. I kind of love being in that position. You don't sound like a man that's ready to give me a prediction, which is my next question. I think Savalenka might be my prediction, but...
As you said, Svitolina's been awesome. Svitolina has been awesome as well. Yeah, I've been looking at the Svitolina-Sabalenka head-to-head, which I hope Svitolina hasn't been doing. It's not great for Svitolina. It's as you would expect. She did get a win over Sabalenka, but it was back in...
You know, before Sabalenka was a Grand Sam champion and world number one. Also, you know, before Svitolina really became the player that we now know her to be. Certainly the player that we've seen this week in Madrid. But on paper, this is a tough matchup for Alina Svitolina, isn't it? But it is their matchup in Rome of last year, David. I don't know.
I don't know how much you remember of this, but Svitolina plays Zabalenka really tough. 7-6 in the third. It was 9-7 in that deciding set tie break. I fear your answer to this question is, well... Madrid, the conditions are so different in Madrid, you can't read anything into anything else anywhere. But I guess my bottom line question is... Yeah, I think she does. But I do think it depends which Sabalenka we get.
And I mean, Sabalenka Kostiuk last night was absolutely sensational. That was just such a wonderful tennis match. And I think an 85 minute first set and could have gone either way. Kosciuk very nearly gets it back to once at all. She has set points and she just, she did everything that...
Svitolina will try to do except Svitolina is a little bit more aggressive I think now with the ground strokes. I think if this match was played in Rome right now I think I'd favour Svitolina to win the match because I just think she's playing better than she was a year ago, and I think maybe Sabalenka's playing worse. But... I would still have to say that on having seen so much of Sabalenka over the years in Madrid, she is jet propelled in that stadium.
Things change when you play Sabalenka. Your form you come into a match with can just go out the window because she can just take it away from you. and you don't really know what she's going to give you. So I would imagine when she gets to semifinals now, she's going to come on strong. If we picked up this match today... The form that both players respectively are in and put it in Rome. Just this match, just today, how differently would you feel about it?
Yeah, I'd go Svitolina if it was in Rome, actually, right now. Yeah, I would. I don't know about Ron and Garros. I mean, that's slightly different again, but that's my feeling, yeah. Matt? The blackout is back. We're picking it up and we're moving it to Rome just for the day. Jack Draper's got his feet up reading another ten pages. The Roy Keane autobiography. What's that? That's what Dan Evans read. He reads a lot of sports autobiography. I think I'm probably still going Sabalenka, but...
Svitolina has impressed me massively. She's not dropped a set. She's won 22 sets in a row now. You know, and she'd never won. Well, she hadn't won a match in Madrid since 2018. You know, she hasn't traditionally liked the Madrid conditions. And yet it does seem that. Maybe it's sort of playing into this slightly more aggressive version.
of her game you know it's just giving her that little bit extra that she's trying to bring to her game anyway by really slamming the serve and the forehand which she's doing and they've just got a bit more on them this year in in Madrid she seems totally in control of her game But whereas on the other hand, I do think Sabalenka has been a little bit scrappy at times. She wasn't great against Mertens. She really had to dig it out against Kostiuk last night, but she just has an ability to...
come up with the shots when she needs them. Like, that backhand down the line she hit to save set point against Kostiuk in the second set last night, just absolutely phenomenal. Like, I don't...
I don't think Svitolina's necessarily got that shot in that moment, whereas Sabalenka kind of does, even when she's not at her absolute best. So I could see it being really, really close, but... I don't know, I just trust Sabalenka to bring a level that maybe the others don't have in those absolutely biggest moments. We've seen her not rise to some big moments this year, Sabalenka. She hasn't played brilliant finals all the time in Stuttgart and Indian Wells.
let them go a little bit, but we've also seen her really at times. knuckle down and bring her best and I feel like off the back of that Stuttgart she's going to do that this week so I am backing Sabalenka but that's not to throw shade on Svitolina who I do think has been fantastic but it's a step up it's a step Regardless of what happens today, I just really want Svitolina to bring this form into Roland Garros.
And I think she probably will. But also, you know, there's a whole roam to go until then. You know, keep it as, you know, we were saying in relation to Alcaraz. Madrid and just the length of this clay court season. how impossible it is just to play them all now and keep up the form and still peak at the right time during Roland Garros. I hope it's possible for her. She's certainly got the experience.
to, I think, pace herself. But it would be very cool to see. OK, so everyone's going Sabalenka and everyone's refusing to make a prediction about Goff's film tech. Is that where we are? I will make a prediction and say Sviantec, but... David? Yeah, I... I just always think she'll take on clay, even though she's not convincing at the moment. And even though it is Madrid and she's not the same force in Madrid, but I would still go. OK, well, those predictions will be out of date very soon indeed.
so i hope you enjoy your goth spitalina final everyone and see you on sunday night uh that's it for part one we'll be back to talk atp in You never get a second chance to make a first impression. A quality cup of premium coffee can be a simple gesture with a big impact.
Whether it's treating your employees or elevating your customer service, Nespresso Professional has what you need. We offer tailored coffee solutions for small businesses, from small offices to retailers. Our range of premium blends and professional coffee machines. brings sophistication to your workspace. Since when did pride in your country become prejudice?
Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where just before we get into the ATP side of things in Madrid an update on our live show which we announced on Monday. Went on sale yesterday to Friends of the Tennis Podcast. The show is on June the 26th. at Shoreditch Town Hall in London. That is the Thursday before Wimbledon. We've sold more than half the tickets. for the venue in the space of one day which is very very exciting there are still some left
And those will be going on sale to the general public. The general sales start. tomorrow as we come to you so that is Friday the 2nd of May otherwise known as Matt Roberts birthday 10am is the time the link will be going out in a email to our newsletter subscribers. It'll also be on our Instagram.
So, yeah, very easy to find. Eventbrite Tennis Podcast as well. Search that and you'll be able to find the link to buy tickets which go on sale Friday the 2nd of May at 10am. It's going to be an incredibly fun night. Billie Jean is coming. And yeah, we're very excited that even if we don't sell a single extra ticket from now, I think the room will still appear full. Yeah. There's hundreds coming. It's amazing. It is a relief to me. There's more than there was in our entire venue last year.
So I think that's quite good. It's brilliant. OK, on to the ATP in Madrid, which, as I said at the top of the show, has reached the quarterfinal stage. The quarterfinals we have are Jakub Mensik. against Francisco Sarundolo, Kasper Rude against Daniel Medvedev, Jack Draper taking on Matteo Arnaldi and Lorenzo Mazzetti against Gabriel Diallo. It's an eclectic line-up, this, isn't it? Really eclectic.
I'm reading this book, Hard Courts, from the 1990 season, written by John Feinstein, who so sadly passed away. last month. And it's just the most incredible book. If you can get a copy of it, you just lose yourself in it. And if you're old enough to remember that, yeah, even more so. But it was kind of like that then. The women's tour was full of names and Jennifer Capriati was just coming on the scene and was such an enormous story and Monica Seles and Steffi Graf, you know.
Martina Navratilova was still there. Gabriela Sabatini. And the men's draw, I'm talking about Rome, you know, coming into Roland Garros. You've got players like Andrei Chesnikov, who was a very good player, but, you know, wasn't hardly a massive name. You know, you got... Alberto Mancini, players that were just great clay quarters, really good clay quarters. They've got their own story.
But, you know, these people were not Lendl and Becker and Edberg and Agassi necessarily. And it has a slightly similar feel to things at the moment. These are players coming out of... Slight left field. OK, Draper's been a big factor in Indian Wells, and we were talking about what a good game he has for Madrid specifically. And I do think there is some of that here.
As I mentioned earlier, I don't necessarily think these players are going to follow this up and do the same in Rome and Roland Garros. But I do think it makes it interesting. We get to meet new players. They get to sort of worry the locker room a little bit. And more generally, I just feel that things are more open right now than they have been in a decade and a half since pre-Nadale, certainly pre-Nadale.
Obviously, Nadal was always the sure thing, but even around him, if it wasn't him, it was Federer. If it wasn't him, it was Djokovic. That doesn't, that aura is not there around Alcaraz and Sinner just at the moment because of injury and suspension. Djokovic... is ageing, and everybody else is unproven. So, wow, it's fascinating. Who's the favourite, Matt, from this point?
I mean, he's the highest ranked player left. He's certainly the favourite, I think, to come through his half to the final. Well, I think Draper Mazzetti would be an absolutely... spellbinding semi-final actually like I love watching Lorenzo Mazzetti particularly on a clay court like I don't think I'm one of these people who's like Oh, I really, really miss the one-handed backhand and whatever.
what it brings to the sport and everything. Like, I love it. You're the least one of those that I've ever met. Yeah, absolutely. Nobody's accusing you of that, Matt. Don't worry about it. And yet, when I watch Mazzetti, I'm like, oh, I wish more people played like Mazzetti. Because it's unbelievable what he does on the court. Like the changes of pace, the angles. The variety, it's just an absolute joy to watch. And he has... And now he's got fun, now he's got good kit, I guess.
It turned out all he needed was a toga. Yeah, I wasn't sure about it when he first played. I was like, that kit does not fit him. But... Actually, he can sort of wear anything, can't he? Well, I don't know. What he was wearing at the start of the year wasn't setting the world on fire, was it? No, but I still think he can wear anything. He deserves the best.
And now he's got a tiger. It's like his nan. Yeah. As you were, Matt. But he's... It's interesting hearing him speak because it feels like to him... It's almost like he discovered something about himself in that Monte Carlo run where he kept coming from a set down. And I think the amount of confidence that that's given him when he kept coming back in these matches and fighting back and winning.
I think he feels a little bit indestructible now in a way that he has never felt or really looked, frankly, before on a tennis court. There's a real solidity and a toughness to it. So when players come back from match point down in round one and go on to win a slam? Yeah, except I almost think this is...
That's almost because you're playing with a kind of freedom, like you feel like you already should have lost. This is kind of like, even if he's in a bad situation, he knows he can come through it. It just feels like he's... Like he's gone up a level and he's playing with a lot more confidence. And he is now guaranteed to be in the top 10 for the first time, which I know he's been really trying to get for a long time. And frankly, on clay, I think he's top.
I really do. I think he's that good on clay. And the way he's beaten Tsitsipas, he's turning that head-to-head round. He was 0-5 against him. He's now beaten him two times in a row. He's just beaten Dimonor for the second time in a row as well. He's got so much power on that forehand right now, combined with the variety and the...
And the grit in these matches, I think he's looking great. But I do think we're going to get Draper Mazzetti in that semi-final. And to me, the winner of that wins it. But then... But then Mensik is really sneaky good as well, especially in these conditions, I think. And he's got the confidence of a Masters 1000 title this season as well.
The two biggest names left I've not even mentioned in Rude and Medvedev. You know, that's why it does strike me as kind of a really, really interesting last date. But if I had to pick, I would say Draper because of the condition. But in terms of most likely to translate it to Roland Garros, I'm looking at I'm looking at Mazzetti here. I think I think we're I don't know. I mean, I'm interested. I got a question for David. Is is Mazzetti in the mix at Roland Garros?
If the tournament is that open, which I agree, the tournament does feel open to me. And if it is that open, surely we need to be putting someone like Mazzetti in the mix because... Who's playing that much better tennis than him right now on a clay court? Would you put Caspar Rude in the mix, a two-time finalist? I would. I'd put them both in. I think it's a big mix this time. What if Yannick Sinner, David, comes? What if we get a Sinner Alcrest final in Rome?
Yeah, I would probably feel differently. But I'd just, I'd be surprised. I still think even if it did, there would be... I'd have less conviction about it because a suspension of three months and an injury coming in, and without, you know, Al Krause has played well. Won a tournament, but got to the fine of another one, and now an injury. But he still doesn't look as convincing as he did.
you know, three years ago. Funny, I mean, of course, he won Roland Garros last year when he wasn't looking that convincing coming into it either. But... To get back to your question about Mazzetti, he looks like finally he believes in all the things that everybody's telling him and been telling him that he should be able to do. Suddenly he's like, jeez, I am this good. I am, I can be any of this. the bomb and like usually i think he thinks my game is pretty and
And I can do really exciting things with the tennis racket. And I love the way it makes people feel. But I don't really believe that it's good enough to beat these people. And now he looks like he does.
Yeah, I think that's a really good way of putting it. I feel like last year's Men's Road on Garros is a little bit of a... cautionary tale for us like talking about how open it is because I remember we were having this exact conversation last year remember we did we did Ronan Garros Relived on 2004 20 years we were like oh it's gonna be
It's going to be the Gaston Gaudio equivalent. It's going to be wild. Like, get ready for some wild semi-finalists. It was just deferred, Matt. And then the semi-finalists were all of the top players, basically. And Novak Djokovic had to pull out with injury. You know, he didn't actually lose. But I do agree. I do feel all those things again coming into this role on Geralt. It's just a question of whether it actually ends up materialising again. Is Casparuid in your mix, Matt?
Not yet. He's not in mine. It's a good win over Taylor Fritz. It was, and he was hitting his forehand really well again. It was a good win. Really well. That's as well as I've seen him hit his forehand in a long time. But I would be surprised if he won Roland Garros. I would. I would be surprised if Caspar Rood won Roland Garros. And that is my definition. Did you see the video that the tournament did, the golf video?
He got shown up by Jessica Bagula, didn't he? He got shown up by Jessica Bagula. She's got game. But that was the most animated and excited I've seen Caspar Rood in a long time. And it was golf. Since the last time you did a golf interview. Yep. Or the weekend. We haven't mentioned Alexander Zverev in the mix conversation. I mean, he has to be in the mix, doesn't he? Despite this...
I mean, not if he comes out in the same section of the draw as Francisco Sarundolo. That would be a real nightmare for him, I think. He's lost to Sarundolo for the third straight time, straight sets defeat. listless, totally lacking in confidence. More of the same, more of the same, as we've been seeing from Alexander Zverev since the Australian Open final, since he started this non-quest. He's not in my mix.
Yannick's in his shoes at the top of the sport. He's not in your French Open mix. No, I mean, in previous years, he absolutely would have been. His best surface is clay. He is at his most... dangerous and devastating and convincing on clay. But there's so many players that look like they could beat him in any given match right now. You think Kasper Rude is more likely to win the French Open than Alexander Zverev? I trust that Kasper Rude will find his best form.
for the French Open, wherever that leads him. I just think Zverev looks so unconvincing right now. He looks unsure what's coming off his rack. I agree. You don't need to convince me of how unconvincing Zverev looks right now.
I was pretty shocked by how poor he was against... He needs a great draw. Unless something dramatic changes, he needs a great draw. I think I'd still have to... If we're considering the mix open right now, before... before Yannick Sinner's return and Alcaraz's return, probable return in Rome, then I would put Zverev in it despite his form. Yeah, I would too. I think the five sets to me makes a bit of a difference there.
We've seen him be pretty unconvincing over five sets and still make his way through to the semis of a slam. And look, if that happens again and Sinnoh and Alcaraz are there, I'd be surprised if he managed to beat them. over five sets but if it is a really really open tournament and i agree with david in terms of the draw if he can make his way through the draw not have like a surrender low in the third or fourth round then I think he can probably make his way through the draw.
Then you watch him hit a forehand and you think, well, there's no way he can win the French Open. I mean, like, that thing is just absolutely all over the place. The number of forehands he was hitting long against Sarundalo was extraordinary. Like, absolutely extraordinary. But I think given his Grand Sam record in terms of getting to the latter stage... I'd probably still consider that when I'm thinking about Zverev going into the French Open. But actually winning it, though?
Well, that's the thing. I suppose that is the question. When you consider our definition of the mix, I've had him in the final of Grand Slams and he's not been in the mix to me because I'm so convinced his opponent will be. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point. I mean, look, I don't think it's going to be as open as you guys are making out. I think it's going to be probably Sinner and Alcaraz. Right. But, you know, playing along with the it's an open, you know, let's say Sinner does.
you know, takes some time to return to form and Alcaraz remains a slightly unconvincing, unknown... up and down quantity. Yeah, I'm playing along. And in that scenario, Zverev's in it and Rude isn't. But look, I'm... Really wanted to emphasise that Rude is not in your mix. When have I ever put Gaspar Rude in a mix? Jack Draper. David, is he the favourite for this title at this point? He plays Matteo Arnaldi.
Later on today, he absolutely crushed Tommy Paul. Two and two. Yeah. And Paul was playing serious tennis, I thought. Yeah. He's the Elenus Fissilina of this draw. at the moment. He's the one who's playing tennis that is pretty jaw-dropping in how convincing it is. He's the complete opposite of what we're seeing with Zverev right now. He knows what's coming off his rack.
He also looks so much more confident that his body's not going to break down. I really hope that's not going to jinx him. I hope that he gets a good run at all of this stuff without the body even becoming a consideration. Is he the favourite for it? I think he's playing the best tennis, but... I think Mensik's playing really well. And then I would probably make Ruud the favourite because he's just got the... the pedigree on clay but I could definitely understand why you would say Drake
Absolutely nobody's mentioning Daniel Medvedev. Does anybody have anything to say about Daniel Medvedev? This is when he wins. This is when he comes back. His first title in two years will be on clay. His previous one being on clay. It will be very Daniel Medvedev thing to do. He's never won Madrid. definitely means it's in the category of one of the ones he can win. I don't know. I don't think Medvedev's going to win Madrid.
Why not? In your scenario where this is a super open French Open, is Francisco Sarundolo in the... David's thinking about it. No, I don't think I would either, because I think he's one of those players who looks ultra convincing against lots and lots of other players. And there's a handful of players he might never be. Just I'm not sure he can decode. Who's in the handful?
I've said that now. I don't know what the actual records are, but I do think if you played those two, I just don't think, I think they would find weak spots. I think I've seen Alcraz play him in the past and hurt him with drop shots. The thing with Zverev is Zverev just is trying to play this metronomic ping pong style of tennis from the base.
And Sarundala can do that all day. He can do it all day and he's got a better forehand than you. So that's why he always wins. Players like Alcaraz and Sinner would just... Wouldn't get into those type of rallies, I don't think, over the best of five. So it's not often. So I just think he's got a really high floor, Surundalo, but he's got a limited ceiling. So I would say no. A quick word on Gabriel Diallo. He's been a player that's been on our radar.
for a while david i think you were a a fan of his fairly very early doors well i mean he obviously as tall person yes of the tennis podcast i mean he's six he's six foot eight He's two metres, three centimetres, and he beat Art of Feast in the second round of the USA. Last year in a really dramatic match. I mean, you know, it's one of those where, wow, somebody has got the chutzpah to take the stage from Art of Peace and get the crowd on his side. That takes some doing.
And you really understand why. I watched him play Dimitrov last night and he saved three match points. He's come through as a lucky loser. I think he's done that three times at the Masters 1000 events this year. He's got into the draw as a lucky loser. He lost to Borna Cioric in qualifying here in straight sets. And then he's just taken over the tournament since then. He's got this huge wingspan. He marauds into the net. He's got a forehander. can produce whiplash power out enough.
He doesn't hit as many aces as maybe you think he will because he really hits a hell of a big serve and yet he was out aced by Dimitri. He's very loose, isn't he? Yeah, very loose, very loose. It's a great watch. It's erratic. You don't know what's coming next. I think he can lose one-sidedly. He's got a leg sleeve. Is that injury-based or is that fashion? Quite often, David, they start off injury-based and then they become, before you know it, you've got a hashtag.
He's been hanging out with Milos Ramic. You know, you mentioned that he's come through as a lucky loser. Like, not only that, but he was due to play a cast Alcaraz, wasn't he? And suddenly he faces Alcaraz's lucky loser replacement. Talk about making the most of an opportunity. And yeah, like the way he saved those points against Dimitrov, like really, really good scenes. He should be celebrating his victories by drawing a crucifix in the clay.
and lying down on it. Everyone should be doing that. That was so fun. Right, that's it for the ATP in Madrid. Anything else? No, I'm just laughing at the fact that we sort of started this show by saying... Madrid is like really, really hard to draw any conclusions from and like the toughest one to look ahead to Roland Garros for. And we've spent the entire time thinking, what does it mean for Roland Garros?
I wasn't intending to, but David, someone mentioned the mix. I think I was guilty of that. It was Mazzetti, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. That toga, Matt, scrambled your brain. Yeah. Okay. That's it for part two. Don't forget the short shorts. We'll be back. We'll be back for more in part three. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. A quality cup of premium coffee can be a simple gesture with a big impact.
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Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast. A couple of other bits of news to cover off from the last few days. Max Purcell, the Australian... tennis player has accepted an 18-month ban. for breaching anti-doping rules. Purcell, you might remember, was provisionally suspended in December 2024 after he admitted to the use of a prohibited method. by receiving intravenous infusions of over 500 millilitres of vitamins on the 16th and the 20th of December 2023.
This is an interesting case because he never tested positive for a banned substance. This is a quote from the International Tennis Integrity Unit. They say the limit under the World Anti-Doping Code is... 100 milliliter infusion in a 12-hour period. So he had infusions more than five times the... the limit. Time served under the provisional suspension counts against the ban and that means that Purcell will be eligible to play on June the 11th of next year.
I read through this judgment. It is an interesting case because he... He never tested positive for a banned substance and the International Tennis Integrity Unit are kind of holding that up as an example of how, you know, broad and far-reaching their anti-doping programme. Max Purcell kind of alerted, this wasn't an unsuspecting thing where he was shocked. to find out he'd been in breach of the code. He was worried about it at the time. A big part of the...
The evidence in this case was text messages or WhatsApps or whatever between Max Purcell and another. unnamed tennis player about these infusions at the time and, oh, do you think I can get away with this?
type of thing you know and he's he's not contested this this ban at any stage he's very very accepting of it but it is a long ban isn't it like i always say with with these anti-doping cases like the optics are as important as And optically, Max Purcell getting an 18-month ban for having a slightly heavier dose of vitamins. And Yannick Sinner getting a couple of month ban at a very convenient time for him for twice testing positive for a performance enhancing substance.
Is that a bad look for the sport? And Degas Viontek as well as a player who only had a month ban. I mean, in their case... The sheer minuscule amount in their system, I think, becomes a factor that has to be considered as well. But it is confusing. I can understand why. Unless you really look into the case and listen to what the International Tenant Integrity Association explains as the reasons for it.
you're going to be scratching your head. And those optics that you reference, most people are just going to read... a couple of paragraphs and and be a bit confused um and um i mean purcell has talked about the anxiety and the stress that it is that it's resulted in for him but also there is reporting in The Athletic there that he did try to conceal it. It's a tough one. It shows how far reaching the code goes and how...
difficult to understand for the general person it is. You really have to go deep. Brutal, though, for him. You know, 18 months at the peak of his career. You know, this is not someone earning so much money that, you know, he'll never have to worry about money again like Yannick Sinner. Yeah, it's pretty brutal. As I say, there is, you know, on the very face of the facts, it looks incredibly harsh, but drill a bit further into it. And there is, as you say, David, a great athletic piece on it.
lays out some of the facts of the case. There is some stuff that doesn't look so great for Max Bersalny. He has totally kind of held his hands up to all of that and accepted this ban. Yeah, tough, tough. Hard not to have some sympathy with him, I think, just because an 18-month suspension is going to be extremely brutal for his. Last bit of news. I think Nomad Djokovic is out of Rome. We all were pretty surprised about...
David, what's your reaction? Yeah, I'm very surprised. I mean, I haven't heard about an injury, a specific injury that has resulted in this decision. all I've read unless you've read anything differently is what the tournament has said is that he's not playing. He's out. other circumstances that have caused it, I am really surprised because he loves Rome. Rome loves him. He loves that Rome loves him. And he's in the last stages of his career and would be...
A great vibe for him, I would imagine. And is the last chance, really? I mean, yes, there are tournaments the week before the French Open that he played last year in Geneva, but... I just feel like this is the one, you know, if he really was serious about trying to get some form and man. some sort of case that he might be able to go deep, then he needed to be playing Rome. I just wonder whether really that isn't the plan now or the plan is...
as I've been talking about in recent shows, to win Wimbledon. That's the one you can win. And therefore, what's the best chance of doing that? Maybe this forms some part of that. I play less on clay. Don't worry about it. Make sure you're in tip-top condition. Don't forget, he ended up at Wimbledon last year.
Off the back of a surgery. Somehow he got to the final. But he clearly wasn't 100%. And maybe he's just going to be really sparing about how much he puts his body on the line in order to give himself the best chance. I can only speculate. I can't understand it. I can't wait to hear him explain it, to be honest.
I can't come up with a better theory than the one that David's come up with there. I really cannot work this one out at all. I thought Rome was actually a really important tournament for him. We keep saying he needs matches, you know, and I think that's right. What he needs is form, right? And we think that you get that through matches. If we look back at Australia, he actually came into that tournament without much form and without many matches at all. He'd played three matches.
between October and the start of the Australian Open. And those were ones in Brisbane where he wasn't even playing that well and he lost to Riley Apelka. And yet he ended up reaching the... the semifinals in Australia and finding his form in that Alcaraz match you know absolutely incredible performance like so maybe he doesn't need that many matches to actually find his form if he can get something going but
I did just think that Rome was the sort of perfect tournament for him to be able to find that form. And it... I can't imagine him skipping Roland Garros. Like, maybe he will. Maybe this is a Wimbledon play and it's all about the grass. But if he's fit, which we think he is, I just can't imagine him not playing a Grand Sam Tournament. And I can't imagine him entering a Grand Sam tournament, really, with a sort of, oh, it doesn't really matter vibe, you know.
So I honestly can't explain it. I know that's not a satisfactory answer whatsoever, but I was just extremely surprised by it, like really surprised. And I've been thinking it through and nothing is really sounding like fully... fully logical to me. I don't really get it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And like, I totally take your point.
David, you know, agree with you about him thinking Wimbledon's his best shot, but it's not like he's skipping Rome to go and play an alternative tour on grass where, you know, match wins and form would be more. more helpful to him. That scenario doesn't exist. We think he's skipping Rome just to... presumably train or I don't know hang out with Andy Murray but that's the thing I think preserving his body and his freshness
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I feel the same. I can't know. And I'm sure, you know, it's not one. It's not one. Decision making is rarely binary in terms of motivation, but no one explanation truly hangs together. So we need to speak to him. And I guess the next chance we'll get to do that will be in Roland Garros. Watch this space, this very long space. That's it. That's it for today's show. We will be back on Sunday and we will be live with our Madrid rap show, 8pm.
Sunday evening, live on YouTube, also available as a podcast as normal and available on YouTube to watch non-live after the fact if that floats your boat as well. We have our mascots, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to you all. Do we have the requested size and weight updates on Roger, Matt? No, still waiting.
It's going to be a great update when we get it. It's going to be worth it. It is. It is. I don't doubt it for a second. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. And Matt, we have some shout outs. We have Mallory Mapes Couture from Vermont. We know this name. We do indeed. An unforgettable name. Hello, Mallory. Like Mola Mallory. Yes. I've done that before, haven't I?
Yes, of beating an ill Suzanne Longlen and then losing to Suzanne Longlen in about half an hour in the following Wimbledon. That's probably not doing her justice. She won a load of US Opens herself, Molly Mallory. But that is what I think about when I hear her name. And Mallory would also like to include her wife, Jen, in her. Hello, Jen. Like Jen Brady. Yes. Who is still a tennis player. Maybe. That's made me quite sad.
David, you were the one that described her as a middling American having a good run during a pandemic. And now you're getting nostalgic for that period. Yes. David went on a journey with Jen, Jennifer, Jenny. It's also how I discovered Clara Towson because she beat Brady after I'd picked Brady to win the French Open and Towson beat her in the first round.
Of course you did. Hello, Jen. Hello, Mallory. Very lovely. I don't know anything about Vermont, but I understand it's lovely. It's where Emily Maitlis goes on holiday. We've next got Brendan Raymond Jacobian. And this is a surprise shout out for Brendan from his wife, Julie. Hello, Brendan. What a lovely thing for Julie to do for you. They are in Goodwood, Alaska. Okay. Yeah, Brendan is an avid tennis player.
They have two courts that they play on in the summer. And Brendan's best buds for watching tennis are Kitty, Miguel and Dog, Luna. Oh. Brendan's living his best life. I think I know the capital of Alaska. I just have this memory of being on holiday once with my son when he was only about six and he was sitting next to another little lad at the dinner table and the lad leant over to him and said, I'm from Alaska.
I'm from Hockley Heath. And yes, the other lad didn't seem to know where that was, which is no great surprise. Brendan, like Brendan Evans. who was a highly touted young American player who got loads and loads of contracts because everybody expected him to be a massive star. And then he didn't become a massive star. OK, until now, until his big shout out moment. Brendan, hello. Julie, that's very lovely of you. And what is the capital of Alaska?
I can't dispute it, so let's go with that. Brendan, let us know. Good knowledge. Finally, we have Andy Yu. Oh. Hello, Andy. Andy would like to dedicate his shout out. It is Juno. Andy would like to dedicate... Did Andy want to dedicate his shout out to Juno, the capital of Alaska? To one of his closest friends, K.V. Duong, who he's met through the GLTA tennis group in London. And KV became a listener after Andy recommended the pod to him. Oh, well done, Andy. Love that. Well done, Andy.
This is what you all should be doing. You're a foot soldier. I also know that Andy has bought tickets to the live show in London. And he's coming to the Australian Open in 2026. Is he? Andy. The commitment. Come on, Andy. Andy, like Andy Roddick and Murray and... No, I should have stopped after Roddick and Murray. It's enough. And you, Roddick, Murray and you, the big three of Andes.
Andy, Brendan, Mallory, thank you very much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. That's it for now. Get your tickets to the live show. Join us on June the 26th. And join us if you can on Sunday evening for our wrap up of Madrid and more hoo-ha about Madrid being irrelevant. French Open we can't wait we'll see you Sunday