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Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Marion Bartoli. This is Bianca Andreescu. I'm Mats Villander. This is Mary Carrillo. This is Pam Schreiber. This is Yannick Noah, and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast. Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is Monday the 28th of April here in London and Solihull respectively in Madrid. We are... Five days deep into the 2025 edition of the Mutua Madrid Open. Five days for the men. Anyway, six days.
For the women, the women are at the round of 16 stage. The men are midway through the round of 32 stage, otherwise known as the third round, I think. Very excited to talk about everything we've seen so far in Madrid with Matt Roberts, who has already this morning described this event as an absolute abomination. Yeah, that's my take for the pod. Done. I mean, specifically the shadow situation.
gets gets no better in fact maybe gets worse in fact it was actually a well in hannah's words on the barge a rectangular portal of blazing light situation that meant that we couldn't see what was happening in One of the matches of the day, Benzic-Goff. So, yeah, thanks for that, Madrid. It's just always such a challenge to actually see the tennis that you want to see. I have decided, David, just to get this particular rant out of the way early doors, that my...
The most annoying aspect of the abominable shadow situation for me, and it's not unique to Madrid, although Madrid is a particularly egregious offense. is how the viewer is gaslit about it. Why is it never mentioned? It's the most obvious visual... Issue doesn't even begin to cover it. That match was unwatchable for long periods this morning. And yet the commentators...
I don't know whether there's a diktat that they're not allowed to. I mean, those commentators are not there. It's worse for them than it is for us because they're having to commentate on what we're seeing. You literally can't see the balls. Sometimes you can't see one of the players. You've got to mention it. Otherwise, I'm literally sitting there thinking, are other people okay with this? Come on. I think at that point, when it gets to the point of Goff against Bencic, when...
I couldn't even see Belinda Bencic for spells of the first sight. I just couldn't see her when she was returning court from the Jews' sight at all. And I think when you're at that point, you've got to make a joke. And I accept the commentators may be told, don't mention it. That sort of thing I can imagine probably does happen from time to time. But I think if I'm in that position, I would just say, nice forehand from golf. I think. I can't see it, so...
I don't know. It's awkward because also commentators, there's this sort of, again, I don't know if it's an explicit directive, but there is this sort of understanding that you're not... supposed to explicitly reveal that they're not there, right? They don't lie to the viewer about it generally, but that... You're not supposed to say anything that explicitly reveals that you're commentating remotely. And I get that.
But I think, I mean, apologise to the viewer, you know, so really sorry. I know, you know, it's a time of day when the sun and the... Ruth makes it a bit tricky to watch. We'll do our best to fill in the blanks for you. Yeah, show the viewer some respect about it. Anyway, that is rant number one out of the way in the first three minutes of the podcast. Actually, the best way to watch Madrid is to go to Madrid. takes away some of the problematic shadow issues. So we're going to be hearing...
from the Athletics' Charlie Eccleshire, who's done just that. He has been to Madrid and he's got some first-hand impressions for us and very interesting they are too. Just before... We hear from Charlie, though. I have a drumroll, please. Big announcement. And that is that our pre-Wimbledon London live audience show, which we'd previously told you to save the date for on June the 26th, now has a home.
And tickets will be going on sale this week. We are going to be live at Shoreditch Town Hall on June the 26th, which is the Thursday before Wimbledon, the day before the Wimbledon draw. It is... Stunning venue. Matt and I visited it about a month ago and it was very lovely, Matt. Please confirm. It was wonderful. It was very similar vibes to the excellent venue we had in London last year.
But bigger. And that's one of the things that we wanted to do this year. Make it so that more people can come. And it ticks all of our boxes. Yeah. So everybody that said, please have a bigger venue next time because we missed out on getting tickets, please buy tickets because otherwise we'll have a bigger empty venue.
This is for you. Other big news, David, is and it wasn't a slam dunk that we chose this venue at the time, but it certainly helped seal the deal. They have confirmed that Billie Jean can once again attend. i'd say it's a slam dunk it was a big moment matt wasn't it it was a big moment on the visit when Yeah, and you styled it out really well. You're like, oh, yeah, there was one more question I had. Even though it clearly went on your mind the entire time we were being given this lovely tour.
Maya it was who gave us the tour was a dog person as well. So instantly. Yeah, thanks for noticing and calling me out on that, Matt. You know me so well. Yes, folks, it's going to be great. Really excited. It was like our live shows last year and at the start of this year. in Melbourne with some of our absolutely favourite times we've ever had as a podcast they really are special and we can't wait to do it again in London so June the 26th
As always, we will have a pre-sale window for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. That will start Wednesday of this week, Wednesday the 30th of April. at 10am. Don't worry, you'll be getting emails with all of the details and information in and at 10am on Wednesday, Friends of the Pod will receive an email through which they can click.
to take them straight to the ticketing page. And then the general ticketing sale will start on Friday at 10am. And given the increased size of the venue, we do expect there to be some tickets left over. on Friday but maybe not the only way to secure your guaranteed ticket I would say is to become a friend of the podcast there we go a double sales pitch from me to start the pod. And of course, the link to become a friend is in our show notes. Now back to Madrid.
And without further ado, let's hear from the Athletics' Charlie Eccleshire, who has been on the ground in the Spanish capital. Hi, everyone. It's Charlie Eccleshire here, just back from Madrid. I've been there for the first week of the Madrid Open, which was interesting. My first time at the event, but my second time at the Caja Magica after going there in 2017 for a Tiebreak TENS event. Why was I there? I hear you asking. Well, I was covering it.
because a tennis expert whose opinion I respect implicitly... So it'd be worth doing, you know, could be the future of the sport in some way. That expert was David Law. So, yeah, not a take that's aged brilliantly. But, yeah, enough about that. Let's get on to my takes that also won't age brilliantly.
Overall, it was an interesting week. If I think of the things that will kind of stick in my mind from there, I mean, on the court, the Djokovic loss to Matteo Arnaldi was... space of being shocking but also not shocking um i mean as much as the performance the thing i'll remember is him
He came into the interview room, as he does after a loss, straight away. So you're kind of there. And I don't know if it was because he was sort of expecting... us to think he was going to be raging or really upset but he came in sort of grinning um and sort of kept that grin on throughout And yeah, it was just kind of talking about how, yeah, this is my new reality. You know, I'm just trying to win a match or two at tournaments.
um because i because i asked him i was like you know he'd spoken about how in monte carlo he didn't really have high expectations but you know i wondered if that was new surface or maybe hadn't been feeling great or had an injury or something but what were they like going into this event and yeah he was just like yeah same again didn't really have a high expectations this is this is what tennis looks like for me
And I wanted to follow up. I didn't get to, but I wanted to be like, but yes, you've lost a few opening round matches, but you're Novak Djokovic. People will be saying this is just a blip, surely, right? But yeah, I mean, that's sort of how he was.
processing it i don't think it would have convinced people that this isn't a reality you know i spoke to a few players after and guys like sits a pass so like no you know best of fives different and Got to wait until Ronan Gares to make a judgment because Djokovic had said he now wasn't one of the favourites for the French Open. Yeah, I mean, I think most people would still put him, you know, there below Sinner and Alcaraz.
you know he's not the favorite like he used to be so routinely um but yeah it was just um i don't know it was one of those moments where i feel like you could look back on it as being one of the sort of beginning of the end moments because Yeah, it was both a big surprise that he lost, but it was also one where we were like, yeah, every match does feel like a bit of a banana skin for him at the moment.
And then other things, other sort of images that will stay in my mind from the last week. One was walking from the mix zone back to the media center and seeing this. and possibly cool-looking bloke with kind of shaggy hair. White t-shirt. My mind was kind of denim shorts. Might have made that up. Smoking a cigarette. And that man was, of course, Marit Safin. Just all perfectly on brand. Other things, while I was there, I got to speak to Jakubensik 101 for the first time.
That's always quite a cool thing when you're talking to someone who... you know you suspect might have um a pretty big future and he's definitely got an aura about him uh he's you know not only is he obviously like a big imposing guy but The way he talks and... You always wonder if there's a slight linguistic thing going on when it's not someone's first language, but he's pretty confident in his abilities.
You know, the arrival of players like him, you know, very respectful of Djokovic and others. But, you know, he knows he's got something about him. He knows that players don't really want to be facing him. right now um other things sort of from the interview room and the mix zone um dimitrov got to ask him i think the first time really about well basically What the fuck happened in Monte Carlo against Alex Dimonor?
and yeah he i mean he was quite funny initially i was like you know do have to ask about that he's like no you don't it's fine we don't have to talk about it um but he yeah it was basically said he hadn't been feeling right physically but And in that respectful way, players do have not wanted to blame injuries, but he said he'd pulled out of so many matches this year via retirement, he just resolved that he wasn't going to do it again.
in this one and so it was just like i've got to get through it um and so then felt kind of proud of himself for having done that despite the fact that on the face of it was um an incredibly sort of embarrassing chastening afternoon
Iga Sviontek, yeah, it was a funny one because after her, I think it was after her win over Ayala, she was in the main press conference room and she was in one of those moods where... everything seemed to be irritating her a little bit she didn't seem quite right and she talked about how um Um, and then, but then after she, um, beat Noskova and it was in kind of.
Not in the press, not in the main interview room. It was just kind of a huddle. She seemed a lot more relaxed and she explained that she'd had to go back to Poland to sort something out.
And yeah, it just seemed a bit more at ease. Maybe like she's kind of settled in to the tournament a little bit. Whereas, yeah, after that, after Ayala win, I was thinking like, God, this still seems... pretty edgy um I mean who knows she may have lost by the time you listen to this I'm recording Monday morning and she plays Dana Schneider fairly soon so we'll see but um yeah it was it was just kind of nice in a way because I did think in that first one
she hadn't quite seen Bright, you know, answering every question with that sort of, well, honestly, which I think she does when... She's kind of a bit tired of your question. Other kind of issues that were popping up a lot. I mean, I thought it was interesting compared to a year ago. I remember being in Rome and the two-week Masters was... everyone was kind of talking about it and you know complaining about it this year there's kind of resignation about it sort of like yeah this is
This is what it is now. So let's kind of get on with it. I mean, some people still can resist having pops about it. Tiafoe was like, it's terrible. The big...
One of the big talking points, though, was the electronic line cooling versus... coming down and looking at the marks and i mean it is another one of those situations i mean generally i think players are for the electronic but It does feel like one of those situations tennis throws up that's kind of designed to frazzle the mind of the players and minds that are already pretty frazzled because they've basically been told in this video that the ATP put together.
with Hawkeye explaining that, like, you know, yeah, there will be times where it looks, according to Mark, like it's in, but it's actually out and vice versa. And, you know, even if... The players have seen that and, you know, some would have engaged more than others. But even if you know that to be the case, if you see a mark and it looks out, that's very hard in the moment to be like, oh, yeah, no, but remember.
It may look out, but it's actually in. So clearly that's something that players are grappling with. And you have an inevitable... Photo being taken after we had that with Sabalenka. in Stuttgart and now Zverev did it here. So yeah, expect that to run and run. One other thing as well I think is interesting to keep an eye on is just, you know, there were a number of withdrawals, both finalists from Barcelona.
You had Alcaraz pulling out before the tournament even started. Then Runa pulled out after a set of his match against Gabali. And yeah, I do just think this stretch of... The season is so brutal. You've got three 1000s and Barcelona is a big 500 event. And I just think players are going to have to pick and choose. more about what they do here.
in this clay stretch, because, you know, otherwise they're going to be burnt out by the time Ronald Garros comes along. Obviously, Al Kraz pulling out was a big moment too. And, you know, the documentary that came out. That said, by the time Alcreas did come to withdraw, everyone knew it was happening. So it wasn't one of those like, you know, gasp moments.
Thanks for confirming. But yeah, so those are some of the things that stick in my mind. I mean, I guess we'll see how it plays out in the second week. storyline-wise and still that tantalising prospect of a Sviantek-Sabalenka rematch will be the first time they've played.
since that Madrid final last year. And yeah, it feels like, you know, they play so little, those two. So that would be a big boost for the tournament, especially one that started with... you know those withdrawals Alcaraz and Paolo Bedossa kind of leading home player on the women's side putting out too but yeah thanks very much and I'll speak to you all soon bye Thank you, Charlie. So much.
to get into there. Let's start with the men and let's maybe work chronologically. Al Karaz's withdrawal first. David, I don't know about you, my reaction to this news is Charlie... described there it wasn't it wasn't a shock by the time it was made official but I did feel relief when it was made official how about you yeah similar and and it's not It's not just an inevitability in the short term and in the immediate case of Alcraz because he's got a bit of an injury. It's more just something...
We've got to get used to, I think, in these tournaments because you can't play them all and win. I know Nadal used to, but he didn't used to when they were two weeks long. not Madrid and Rome and even then you know the chances are I mean he would eventually not play one of them or he might lose in Madrid. He didn't win Madrid quite as many times as he won everything else.
And back in the day, he didn't win Hamburg every single time. But the idea that you could star... in Monte Carlo, and then go to Barcelona, and then go to Madrid and Rome when they're both two weeks, and then finish up at Roland Garros, win that, and then go to Gras and be competitive there. Who in their right mind thinks that that is possible?
That is not possible, not to win them all, not to be really competitive at them all, without diminishing your chances considerably at the actual two events that you're trying to peak for, Roland Garros and Wimbledon. And that is the wrong way round. That is tennis shooting itself in the foot yet again. And from an Alcrafts perspective... Yeah, he needs a break. He needs a mental break.
We'll get on to the documentary. That much is very clear that he can't just keep doing this all the time. And physically, he really needed not to push himself through this particular injury because I think he could derail. the most important three months of his year, if he does. So, yes, I am relieved. It's a shame on the short term, but I'm relieved long.
Why don't we do the documentary now, David, seeing as, you know, we're kind of there and it kind of pertains to this, you know, the documentary which dropped last week, Carlos Alcaraz, My Way. It's in Spanish, though, so mi manera. A mi manera. A mi manera. Thank you. Dropped last week covers, it's a Netflix documentary, three parts.
roughly an hour each, covers last summer, basically. Cameras following him and his team last summer, covering the build-up to the French Open, obviously a very injury-hit period for Al Karaj shows. Shows his press conference in Barcelona pulling out of that event and what a big deal that was for the people around him. And then, of course, in winning the French Open and Wimbledon. losing out in the Olympic gold medal match and then kind of the end of the season.
as well um matt i think you haven't had a chance to watch it all yet is that right probably because you've been put off by what David and I have had to say about it, having watched it all. Is that right, Matt? I've seen the first two episodes. Okay. But I feel like I've got it. I feel like you've got it as well. I've got big takes here. I suspect you do as well. As I've said, we've...
We've had very light chitchat about it on the group chat, but we haven't got deep in the weeds. I found it quite an upsetting one. in a way that I really wasn't expecting. I wasn't expecting to feel very much at all, really. I was expecting it to be total vacuous fluff, which to an extent it was. But I felt like it also had quite a sinister underbelly. David, what did you... I thought, what on earth are you doing? What on earth are you doing putting Alcraz in this position?
I mean, it's great opening up the doors and showing behind the scenes one or two interesting bits about his life. Sure, nice young lad, family, how he got there, behind the scenes of some of his wins, great. But this narrative, and I realise it's a bit rich from me, who said once that he'll win 12 Grand Slams in a row.
No, he's not hearing that. Maybe he is a devout tennis podcast listener, but you're not in his ear saying that. I said that after multiple beers. I no longer drink. I said that after multiple beers. after the euphoria, upon the euphoria, amidst the euphoria of him just having beaten Novak Djokovic in five sets to win Wimbledon, right? I didn't say that repeatedly, repeatedly.
in his ear, in his vicinity, and actually go further than that, say that he's on this journey to become the greatest player in history. How many times did they use the words the greatest player in history? A man who is, what, 22 years of age? He's won four Grand Slams. Maybe he's kind of, you know, it's an incredible achievement. It is an incredible achievement.
And look, if he wins six like Boris Becker, brilliant. If he wins seven like John McEnroe, brilliant. Eight like Ivan Lendl. Maybe he'll win double figures, brilliant. But they're making out... that that's not brilliant. They're making out that he needs to be, the journey, the idea is to become the greatest player in history. Why are you using these words? Why are you putting that pressure on him where no matter what he does, unless he gets to the 20s, he's a failure? That is insane.
the ultimate role model in Rafael Nadal, who has actually won 22 of these things. who never spoke about the next match, let alone the next tournament victory, let alone the next Grand Slam victory, let alone the next 18 Grand Slam victories. He wouldn't even talk about the next point after the one he was about to play. Because that is how you do it. That is how you maximise your career.
Now, I love Carlos Alcaraz in every single way. He's my favourite player to watch. When he's flying, he brings joy. He can do things that I've never seen anybody. But that doesn't mean automatically that he's going to be the greatest player in history or that he needs to be. Why are we doing this to him? It's not just the narrator of the... There's not even a narration of the documentary. It's in the words of the people they're speaking to. One Carlos Ferreira repeatedly talking like this.
Albert Molina, his long-term agent. Stop it. Just stop doing that. Yeah, I'm not sure Alcaraz Ferreiro hugs are going to feel the same for me. In fact, I feel certain that Ferreiro Alcaraz hugs are never going to feel the same for me after watching this. Yeah, I think that was probably my biggest takeaway from this in that we've generally talked so positively about the Alcares team in the past.
And the people that he's got around him and the vibes from what we've seen from the outside have often looked pretty good. And we've talked about... you know, how much we think it's important when Ferrero is there for Alcaraz. And we've seen those hugs and all of that. But I did have the same feeling that... the team were increasing the pressure on Alcarez and maybe just not quite in tune with Alcarez, the person, you know, almost in this...
Almost in the very first scene, you've got Alcarez saying, you know, he's got ambitions to be the best player of all time, but not at any cost. And then it cuts to Juan Carlos Ferreiro talking about how, you know, it absolutely has to be at any cost. Maybe not understanding Alcaraz as a human is maybe taking its toll on Alcaraz at times. And we do see the struggle that he's had in terms of, you know, being on tour.
There's this tension between where they're both massively hyping him up, as David says. He's got to be the greatest of all time. But also being really quite critical of some things that didn't really seem all that bad. Like, oh, what's his crime here? Going on holiday.
What's his crime here? Wanting to be at home and spending some time with his mum. And, you know, there was a scene where they were kind of all taking it a little bit personally that Alcarez had gone on holiday. And they were like, well, we're... we're sort of sacrificing our lives for you and you're going off on holiday. And what did he do after those two trips to Ibiza? Well, one year he won the Queen's Wimbledon Double and one year he won Wimbledon.
playing possibly the best match he's ever played in that final there, beating Novak Djokovic. It seems to me like having a little break is actually really, really good for Carlos Alcaraz. That would sort of be my conclusion from that. I was slightly struck by that. tension there between what Alcaraz is saying he wants and he needs and is best for his tennis versus what his team seem to think he needs and is best for his tennis.
Yeah, that was a real revelation to me because I thought they were a bit more in tune with one another than that. And I do think the team... you know, want the best for our careers. I think they think they're doing the right thing. But it also struck me that, you know, this is... As much as it's Alcaraz's first time navigating this world, it's also...
Ferrero's first time in terms of having a player like this. He might be getting some things wrong as well, and Molina might be getting some things wrong as well, and yet they're very forthright in the way they say things, and this is how it must be done. I don't know. I was a little bit concerned about how the team seemed to be increasing the pressure on Alcaraz rather than taking it. Yeah, I agree with all of that, but I'd...
go potentially several steps further. I thought they were out of tune with him to a really alarming extent. I thought, I agree, they care about him, they do. but they don't have the tools to know what's best for him as a person. These men have no emotional intelligence whatsoever. None. There is one person in that documentary besides Al Kraz himself that stands out a mile. She's got about 30 seconds of air.
And it's his mother. She is the only person in that documentary that seems to have even the most rudimentary emotional tools to... to nurture somebody that is clearly a very sensitive young man. feels things deeply. He's surrounded by toxic masculinity, as far as I can tell, who are all caught up in this bizarre and hubristic... quest to be the greatest of all time and they seem not to know the difference between discipline and drudgery. and the difference between commitment and containment.
And they seem not to understand Carlos Alcaraz at all. Before the man-hating allegations come for me again, of course it is just as possible for men to be emotionally intelligent. Fact is, we live in a world where men aren't encouraged to flex. muscle very sadly and aren't rewarded if they do particularly in sports so typically yes men are less likely to be emotionally intelligent or certainly display
emotional intelligence or make use of those underlying skills. And the men around Carlos Alcaraz show no signs of being atypical in that regard whatsoever. There's a line at the very end of the third episode, at the end of the series, where Carlos Alcaraz says, Right now, I would prefer to put happiness before any kind of accomplishment because happiness is an accomplishment. And boy, do I hope he really, really means that because that is the wisdom he needs to...
hold on to, you know, that he needs to keep his head while all around him are losing theirs. Get that tattooed about your person, Carlos. Because one of my most fundamental anxieties about tennis and loving tennis is that I worry that... tennis at the very, very top, you know, true success in tennis isn't fully compatible with happiness and joy. And one of the most intoxicating and special things about Carlos Alcaraz is that he makes that feel possible. He makes those two things.
feel compatible and in fact essential. He makes those two things feel essential together. He can't win without happiness. without joy like he's he's a beautiful antidote to that anxiety and he seems to be surrounded by people that don't understand the most profoundly wonderful thing about Not because they don't care about him. I really believe that they do, but they do not have the tools to understand it and the humility or the distance.
need to try to. Their whole livelihoods and reputations rest on this kid's shoulders and rather than try to ease the pressure that he bears on their behalf, they amplify. And I found that really upsetting. So there we go. Our review of Madrid is an abomination and our review of Carlos Alcaraz's Ami Manera is profoundly upsetting. Shall we talk about Novak Djokovic, which frankly Novak Djokovic fans might find profoundly upsetting? He lost his opening match in Madrid to Matteo Arnaldi, 6-3.
6-4 we had a fantastic insight there from Charlie Eccleshire into Novak Djokovic's quote and outlook after the match his general demeanour in the press conference room which I found Really fascinating, just in terms of the actual quotes in that press conference room, talking about his, quote, new reality. Novak Djokovic said...
I'm trying to win a match or two, not really thinking about getting far in the tournament. It's a completely different feeling from what I had in 20 plus years of professional tennis. So it's kind of a challenge. for me mentally to really face these kinds of sensations on the court going out early now regularly in the tournament. David, do you feel any differently about where Novak Djokovic is out after this match and this defeat to how you felt after his last match?
defeat early in a Masters 1000 in Monte Carlo to Alejandro Tabilo. Where do you feel with Novak Joff? I don't feel any different. I take on board what he said. I think it's interesting that he's put some of those suspicions that everybody has into words and addressed them in the way that he has.
But I've also heard him say a lot of things over the years that... have created headlines whether it's I don't know whether I'm going to be able to finish this tournament because of an injury whether it's I don't know whether I'm going to play the grass court season at all because I've just lost
Who was the Italian chap at the French Open a few years ago? Yeah, don't even know if I'm going to play the grass court season because he was pissed off. Now, I realise this is a different tone and it's not as... I don't think it's as reactive as that. I just think we've got to think, what is he actually trying to achieve at the moment? I think he's trying to achieve...
A little bit like he had last year. He had the moment when he won the Olympic gold. And to my mind, the sensible moment, the sensible goal would be to win Wimbledon. And I just think all of this is a work in progress towards that. Now, I'm sure he would rather be... He needs to play more matches. The big problem he has is just because he's not winning many matches, he doesn't get to play many.
So I think he's going to keep trying to do the same thing and get a bit of momentum. I don't think he'll be losing masses of sleep if he doesn't win Rome and if he doesn't win Roland Garros. But I think if he can win some matches, he will feel like he can arrive at Wimbledon. And I wouldn't be that surprised if this time he ended up playing some sort of grass court event, which he hasn't done for something like seven years.
ahead of Wimbledon, you know, proper tournament, wouldn't be that surprised if he'd played Queen's or Halle. The goal to my mind is Wimbledon because that's the one realistically he can be. I think he's right in there with a shot of winning it. I think he's as... Aside from Alcraz and maybe Sinner, I think there's nobody with a better chance of winning Wimbledon than Novak Djokovic, even now.
But I don't feel like that about him at Ryan Garros. So I think it's work in progress. And I think he's interested. I think he's got nothing to lose anymore. He's done it all in the sport. I think he's pretty sanguine about it. And he's curious. Can I pull this off? Can Andy Murray and me pull this off together?
Yeah, I think I agree with you about that mindset and that curiosity, him and Andy Murray together. I don't agree with you about the tennis. I think that this tennis is so far away from anything that can... even at Wimbledon where there are so few. others that feel like genuine contenders. I think he's a really long way away. I think his game looks pretty anemic, quite frankly.
His footwork is a fraction off from where it needs to be. He's a fraction less in the perfect position than he used to be. So a fraction more off balance, his core looks that bit less stable. I do think... His mentality is just different at slams in a way that, you know, it doesn't matter how much he tries to motivate himself for these 1000s, it just is different. And look, there's time and space for the game to improve at Wimbledon. It's just...
Before Wimbledon, I mean, it's just, you know, he's going to be two months older at Wimbledon. I find it, I'm finding it increasingly hard to see, honestly. Whereas best of five versus best of three used to be a weapon for Djokovic, I now see it as a detriment. at his age. But I'm curious too. I'm just as curious as Novak Djokovic is, whether he can turn it around. Matt, where do you fall, Matt? Closer to you, I think.
The quotes really did interest me because I remember Rome last year when he lost to Tabilo. I remember there was a moment in his press conference and I went back to have a look at it this week and he's asked about Roland Garros. What's his mindset going into Roland Garros? And he smirked and he said, same as always. even though his form had been pretty rubbish up until Roland Garros last year. But he still had that mindset of...
Yeah, I can turn it on at a grand slam. And reading these quotes is interesting hearing Charlie about, you know, what his facial expression was like when he was in the press conference. But just reading them.
To me, they are a lot less defiant than normal and they're a lot more... resigned than even those moments where david's reference in the past where he's maybe said something in a press conference and then gone and shown shown us something on the court i do think the tone of these quotes is a little bit Different. His year has been total feast or famine.
You know, he had put in that colossal performance at the Australian Open to beat Alcrest and had a semi-final run there. And he played pretty well in Miami not that long ago to get to the final and was beaten by a guy serving out of his mind. But he's also just had these losses where he's played really poorly and lost in the opening round of tournaments to players that he would normally just brush aside.
So where I stand is that I've said it for a long time. I personally believe we're very near the end. But I do think he's capable of these. David's called the moments. That's a good word for it. I had sort of sputtered. you know, the Olympics last year where it just came out and he was brilliant. That Alcaraz win in Australia this year. And I wouldn't bet against another one of those this summer. You know, we've got...
Three Grand Slams in the summer, as we always do. Ronan Garros, Wimbledon, the US Open. He intends to play all of them. He's the greatest player there's ever been in terms of playing those Grand Slams. I would not bet against him having another one of those sputters or moments over the summer. But I don't think that necessarily translates to actually winning one of them because that's where I fall down on the same side as you, Catherine, I think.
Five sets might be helpful for him now at the start of these slams so he can get into it and everything. But I'm not sure it's that helpful in the latter stages against the very, very best players. I know he beat Alcaraz over five, but... I felt like if you play that match 10 times, Djokovic maybe doesn't pull out that performance that often and Alcarez would be better. So...
I think he can have a run. I think he can have a moment this Grand Slam summer. But I do struggle to see him actually winning. Sputters is definitely the language of a man that's recently suffered through some plumbing issues. Can I be clear? Not my plumbing issues, my upstairs neighbour leaking down onto me. The only thing I would say about that is I think that... That suggests that the one moment he had last year was the match against Alcaraz in the Olympic fight.
Let's not forget he reached that Olympic final and he brushed everybody aside. I know, but we're never going to get those perfect conditions for him again in terms of... It being the single thing that he has to achieve. Best of three. You know, it was a best of three tournament, the Olympics. I just think that was such a unique moment. And look, he did have... And he reached the Wimbledon final on one leg. He did, but he didn't beat anyone particularly challenging for him.
in that Wimbledon final and then he got crushed by Al He got crushed by cinema at the Australian Oak. He's been injured at Roland Garros last year. He's been injured at the Australian Open this year. I agree there are these moments, but there's also for everything you can put in Djokovic's favour at the moment, you can come up with a counter.
in terms of injury or loss of form. Who would you pick to beat him at Wimbledon if he's not injured and he's playing well? Who would you pick? I would pick Carlos Alcarez and I would pick Yannickson. It's not many, is it? It's not, and that's what I'm saying. He could have a moment.
I would pick Jack Draper probably to beat him at Wimbledon. Right now, on the basis of what I'm saying right now. I might even pick, you know, a Berrettini. Like, I think he's vulnerable at Wimbledon to a lot of players. Unless there's a significant... For me, it's more than Alcaraz and Sinner. In his current form, yes. He really looks anemic. I don't think he's in this form then. But I may be wrong. I definitely do feel differently to you.
I think he's not in this form then either, to be clear. I think he's going to, as I said, I think he's going to... show up at certainly one of these slams that we've got coming up personally i just don't see that ending with him winning it but I definitely like I'm not predicting Namo Djokovic to lose in the first round at Wimbledon absolutely not like he's he's so good at playing these slams but to me there's a There's a level required to win it.
I'm just not sure. You know, now we've had 18 months worth of evidence that he hasn't won a slam in that period. It feels like a stretch that he would win a future one. the pervasive and increasing but you know I know everything you always caveat David with if he doesn't get injured and I totally get that but like the risk of injury is only increasing all the time like every time he takes to the court you know every grand slam he's
because that's where the motivation is. He's going to put his body on the line that bit more and that comes with increased injury risk. And, you know, I think that is... You know, we saw it at the French Open last year, didn't we? And then throughout Wimbledon, luckily he didn't need to, but he wasn't prepared to put his body on the line.
working his way through that Wimbledon draw, was he? That was a... theme of that fortnight you know how much is he prepared to really throw himself out wide particularly and test out that knee so I don't know it's fascinating A few other bits and bobs are in the men's draw that we've seen so far. Both of last year's finalists, Sandro Rublev and Felix Auger-Eliassime, out fairly early. Rublev lost to Bublik. And Orgelia seemed lost to the less good Sarundalo, which...
You don't want to be doing that. You don't want to be doing that. Rublev's now down to number 17 in the live rankings. And Ujelisim down to number 27. Not cool as he might be. And, you know, I'm sure it will take time, whatever. But early results, not great with the Saffin collapse. The Rublev-Safin collab. Art of Feast. Lost to Francisco Comisano in straight sets despite being 5-1 up in the first set. This was a regression from Art of East, David. Mentally a massive regression.
Honestly, I think he went 4-1 up and 5-1 up and it was so easy that I think he just started to think of something else. Honestly, I do. And then he didn't serve it out for the first time. Then Kamasana, he's quite an inspirational character. He gets the crowd involved a bit. And then the second time he tried to serve it out, he really tried to focus again, Feast.
He didn't serve it out. And then when it got messy, tie-break, and then he was just... He couldn't rein it back in. I think it was a really... Really big learning moment for him. He needs to remember this one because he's better than that. He's the sort of player now that should be just brushing these players aside pretty much as he was to 5-1. And he needs to remember that any time he's in that position again. Holger Runa, retired injured against Flavio Caballi, which is a...
a desperate shame. But, you know, just a reminder that, you know, one week does not a total overhaul of a career make, I suppose, which we know, but it is a reminder. Tommy Paul put in a fantastic performance to beat Joel Fonseca in two tiebreak sets. I was really impressed with Tommy Paul there. Shame to see Fonseca go out of the tournament. He and his Brazilian fan club are bringing some very welcome energy to a Caja Magica, which can be...
in need of some vibrant Brazilian energy sometimes, certainly visually with all that grey and metal around the place. Yeah, it was interesting that Tommy Paul... Fonseca match and in particular I kind of enjoyed Tommy Paul's interview afterwards where it just felt like him breathing a sigh of relief you know it just felt like he'd seen that draw that was his first match you know he's in a bye and he's got Fonseca in his first match
And like all these guys are just so aware of the talent and the threat that Fonseca has. And it reminded me a little bit of the Dimonor. Fonseca match that we saw a few weeks ago where at the moment... These guys are able to hang in there, use their experience. Paul really mentioned his movement as a big thing and maybe draw some errors from Fonseca and make great plays themselves. You know, these are great players.
But it almost like they know that there's like a clock, I think, on how long they're going to be able to do this against Fonseca because soon he's probably going to go like shooting past. But like at the moment, Paul was able to just keep him at bay, save set points in both sets. And he did really, really well.
Yeah, I just find it fascinating when is going to be that moment when Fonseca does just take it up another level and kind of go past them. But at the moment, those sorts of matches are an absolutely fascinating watch Fonseca against. you know those sort of solid top 15 top 10 players who are great but also know that this guy's coming for them Yeah, the commentary line after Match Point.
I think after that tie break, because Paul really accelerated through the second set tie break, didn't he, was that Fonseca was given a school. And I had the same thought, Matt, that, you know, yes, you know, obviously in the short term, Tommy Paul, great win. But in the long term, giving João Fonseca matches like that is...
making him a better player and accelerating his journey to probably being better than you quite soon and being better than everybody. But I did think Tommy Paul was really impressive and moved unbelievably well during that. Last couple of players probably to mention because... They, to me, feel like maybe the respective favourites from their sections of the draw. Alexander Zverev has to be a favourite in Madrid, doesn't he? He's the top seed. Came through.
A match that, you know, at one stage it felt like he really had no right to win against Alejandro Davidovic Fikina yesterday. Two tiebreak sets in the second and third. Coming through matches that it feels like he has no right to win is kind of the benchmark, David, of Zverev hitting four. Yeah, it really is. And he's now reached multiple Grand Sam finals doing that.
The French Open last year, two breaks down in the fifth set against Talon Grigspor, kind of a similar player to Davidovich Vekina, the sort of shot maker that actually can hurt Zverev in the rally. Can he actually get over the line in a match against... Zverev of great importance.
doesn't really have that gear. He doesn't have the gear to go and... destroy an opponent if he really decides to take it to them occasionally you see it and he has a heavy ball don't get me wrong he doesn't it's not like he doesn't hit the ball hard he's got a big serve and he can and his backhand is pretty much the best in men's tennis but you can get to him you can attack him and there are multiple players who can but his ability to just not go away and ask you questions.
is right at the top, I think, in the men's game. And it asks questions of the mentality, the mental strength of these other players. And there's too many of them that are unable to answer it. Next round, Sarundolo, Gaio's beaten him twice, two out of two on play. That's a big match for Zverev. I think all of these are big matches. And similar to how we talk about...
Djokovic, I think we could apply the same to Goff and Svantec. These are players who are trying to build some foundation, some momentum, something. to make them feel like form is coming and I think Zverev is actually building that at the moment it's just that I still think there are several players that can hurt him it's just whether they can actually finish the job
Absolutely brutal day, by the way, for Davidovich Fakina. Did you see what happened to him after the singles? He went out and played doubles with Francis Tiafoe and the same thing. happened again wins the first set then loses a tie break in the second set and then loses a match tie break in the final set so he played four tie breaks to Vidovich for Kina yesterday if he'd won any of them he'd have won a match but he lost all four tie breaks lost both matches and it
It kind of sums him up, doesn't it? You know, he is absolutely in that bracket of players that Dave is describing there, capable of outplaying Alexander Zverev. There's lots of them. We see it a lot. But the bracket of players that are actually capable of... getting over the line and beating Alexander Zverev is a lot smaller. And it feels like the Vidovich-Vikina fits perfectly between those two things.
as so many of them do, like Greekspore, as you said, and like Tommy Paul at the Australian Open. We see it time and time again. But I hope Davidovich Fikina doesn't get... you know too down about that because he is playing really really well this year And he is really, really bringing it on both surfaces so far. And he is a great watch as well. So I do hope we keep seeing more.
And I just hope he can find a way to just bring it in these big moments. Because he won three points in two tie breaks against Verev. That's the difference in the match.
And actually, he shouldn't have been in a tie break because he had a backhand pass to... to get the crucial break in the second set and oh you just like i i despair watching him i just how much what he must feel is is brutal He elicited what I think is the first on-record tennis opinion vocalised by my nearly two-year-old baby niece, which is tennis nice. She didn't have anything to say after the third set time.
Jack Draper was the other player I wanted to mention. He's in this open bottom half of the draw. He's got Matteo Bertini later on today. David, I think I've always... You know, I covered Madrid for a couple of years on site with... Amazon Prime and it was two years ago that I was there that Jack Draper won a match and then lost out narrowly to Andre Rublev and obviously these were early days of Jack Draper but I remember earmarking there like
OK, he's never going to be a clay court specialist, but he can play in Madrid. And now that he's sort of a far more fully formed version of himself, I think... I think he could be a contender for the title in those conditions. Yeah, I agree. It seems to suit him down to the ground and he trusts his ball flight and the fact that when he connects... It's very often a devastating shot. I think his backhand works really well.
in the altitude that sort of bunt through the air goes quickly um whereas probably on the more conventional clay court tournaments he's going to rely more on his forehand and the whip and the top spin and the rotations and the heaviness of that But, yeah, I think he's a real contender for this. And just finally on the men's front, circling back to something that happened in...
Zverev's match against Davidovich for Kina, which we've referenced and Charlie referenced in his voice note as well. This taking pictures of clay court ball mark. and then posting them on social media. This trend started by Irina Sabalenka in Stuttgart, continued by... Alexander Zverev in Madrid. And I think somebody else has done it as well, haven't they? I can't remember. But I feel like somebody in between did it as well. What do we think?
Yeah, don't like it, really. Sorry, sorry, sorry. The thing is, I felt like we knew this was going to happen. And in fact, Charlie referenced it. The ATP did put out a video at the start of the clay court season. I think it was meant as an explainer for the players and the fans as well. It's helpful for identifying the mark, I think. But in terms of the actual reading of it, yes, sometimes the electronic line calling machine is going to be at odds with your eye.
And I accept that is a very tough thing for players in the moment to accept. Every call when you're playing a tennis match feels like... the end of the world you know sometimes when a call goes against you i get that it's extremely frustrating but Taking a photo of it and then posting it on social media just feels a bit small time, doesn't it? on that note that's it for part one we'll be back in part two to talk about the WTA
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Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where live news... from Madrid is that play has been suspended due to a nationwide, in fact, region-wide power outage in Madrid. Spain and Portugal, a pretty suboptimal event to have a power outage because while it's technically an outdoor event, so much of the venue is...
is kind of indoor, isn't it? And there are some quite comical bits of content emerging on social media of people in sort of... very gloomy looking tunnels using their phone torches to try and navigate their way around the Kaha Magica. That's the situation in Madrid as we come to you. Let's talk about what we've already seen so far. All of the women's round of 16 matches scheduled to be played today. In fact, some...
already have been played today. Coco Goff's beaten Belinda Bencic in straight sets. From what I could see of that very shadow-afflicted match, David, I thought that was one of the best performances I've seen from Coco Goff in... Yeah, she never panics, it seems to me. She might in the moment look agitated about... where's the forehand gone? Where's the serve gone? from point to point, set to set.
is right up there. And, you know, that six-love set she lost to Diana Yastrzemska is a perfect example. It'd be so easy to panic in that situation. She hasn't been playing anywhere near as well as she's wanted for some months. And yet she finds a way to win that match and then regroups and comes out and here she still is in the tournament and starting to improve. And I think that that is something that we...
We do need to remember with the better players. They're not going to win all of these tournaments. They might not win many of them. They're trying to peek, and... I think she is putting the foundations in to give herself a chance of doing just that. And yeah, that's a really good win because it's funny, you know, when they were in the middle of the first set of that match, Ben Shishin Goff, I thought to myself...
Who would I back right now to win this match? And I think I thought maybe Bencic. I thought maybe she might outplay Goff. It wasn't just Goff using our athleticism here. This was Goff taking over, which is a good sign. She will face me around. Drive her. In the quarter-finals, Andreva has beaten Yulia Staradubt Saver. They got their wins in before the power outage. Well done. Well done, those two. Yeah, Goff, Andreva, yes, please.
Shontek that Charlie talked about earlier, she is due to take to the court against Diana Schneider any minute now, electricity supply dependent. I was very impressed with her, Matt, against Noskova, having looked really vulnerable against Noskova. Ayala I thought that that Ayala match there was I don't know maybe I'm maybe I'm imposing my own narrative here but it felt to me like there was an Ostopenko hangover there she looked just
So unsure of herself. She looked like somebody that had had her confidence dented to me. But to bounce back from that to face another one of her bogey players in Linda Noskofer and play so well, I thought was very important. Yeah, or maybe even an Eala hangover. You know, the last time she played her, she lost. And then she sees her name in the draw so soon after.
I remember being absolutely stunned when they did play in Miami that that match looked like it did, because in my head, Svantec should not be struggling, really, with the game of... again, on clay. And I was completely scrambled. It was like everything I've ever thought I knew about tennis and match-ups was just not making sense. But it was a horror. performance from Sveontek, really, for the first half of that match. Unforced errors, game not under control.
looking pretty stressed on the court. She got it together and she ended up winning the third set pretty straightforwardly. And then she's faced with another opponent who has caused her problems. certainly beaten her in a slam and pushed her on several other occasions as well. This was their first meeting in a while on the clay, and I do think we saw kind of a big difference at the surface there can make.
And also Sviante protected her serve a lot better against Nosika. I know I keep banging on about it. But I'm increasingly thinking that's a massive, massive aspect of Chiantek's game. She has to be able to protect that serve. Everything else. seems to kind of flow from that. And she did that really, really well against Noskova, seemed a lot more settled and, yeah, doesn't have to play Ostapenko because...
Ostapenko just absolutely peak Yelena Ostapenko'd her way through the last few days, winning a title. And you asked David last week what it means. David just nailed it, didn't he? Nothing. Like, great in the moment, of course. We know Osterpenko can win these titles, but... What does it actually mean for what she's then going to go on to do? Well, she's going to lose to Sevastova, who hasn't played for over a year. And Sevastova's then going to get double bageled. Like, it's peak. Perfect.
It might very well be true that the Stuttgart title doesn't mean anything different for Jelena Ostopenko. But more than that, I would say the Madrid loss doesn't mean anything for Jelena Ostopenko, other than that she didn't want to be there.
And she wanted to be... Nothing means anything for Rostropenko. Everything is in the moment. No. Yeah, she lost to Anastasia Sevastova, who I had to Google that it wasn't like a sister or a cousin of the Anastasia Sevastova that we... were aware of five plus years ago. She seems to have retired twice since we last were aware of Anastasia Sevastova. She's now 35. Well done her. She did lose her next match. Six love, six love to Diana Schneider. So that is...
That's that sequence of events. Winner, by the way, of Schwantek Schneider takes on the winner of Kies Vekic, which for some reason is on Stadium 3 today. There's some bizarre scheduling in Madrid. It will come as no surprise to anybody. We might have been expecting a Rabakina-Paolini round of 16 match. Instead, it's a Svitolina-Sachari.
round of 16 match. It's so Maria Zachary to be suddenly playing great tennis when everybody's stopped thinking about the possibility of her maybe playing great tennis. Yeah, and yet she remains... An incredible athlete with a hammer forehand. And the biggest curiosity is... kind of why she's just tailspinned I suppose a lot of it is just
her mental approach to the sport and her lack of self-confidence. But yes, it is a reminder of just how dangerous she can be and maybe without quite such... an expectation on her shoulders maybe reduced a little bit by herself now as well maybe she's able to feel a little more free I'm really happy to see her back and playing well I hope she can keep this going whether it's this week or in future weeks because
She doesn't seem as though she's satisfied with her career overall. I feel like she's been pretty sad about how things have gone in recent times. And if this is the start of something... big for the future great because I don't like to think of her as just being that bereft figure we've often seen, crestfallen. And she's still got something to offer. And I just feel like... Both tours right now, there are opportunities. And if somebody gets hot at the right time, they can make serious inroads.
She's back with Tom Hill, is Zachary. I got the feeling that maybe the end of the Tom Hill, Peyton Stearns collaboration... Wasn't that well received by Peyton Stearns, just based on a social media post that she put out, like kind of looking for a new coach. It was kind of a little bit pointed as though maybe something had happened there. And then Hill goes back to Zachary.
Look, she certainly had the best years of her career with Tom Hill. It did strike me at the end of that relationship that there was almost too much of a dependence. It didn't strike me as particularly... healthy on-court relationship that they had in terms of how much... how sort of beneficial it was for Zachary in those tight moments. But the split hasn't really worked either. You know, she's only had sort of worse results since they started.
So it's interesting that she's gone back to him, and I think this is the first time she's won three matches in a row in over a year. And you mentioned the Rabatkinner-Svitolina match. Again, there's kind of two sides to that, isn't there? Because I think it's really, really tough to watch Rebecca at the moment. And she seems a shadow of her former self, really, who was a kind of threat to win any tournament she played.
And yet I was so impressed with Svitolina. You know, I saw Rabatkin as Svitolina last year. We had a couple of times, didn't we, at the French Open and at Wimbledon. And it looked the same. It was kind of routine for Rabatkin once she hit her stride in that match. but this time Svitolina never allowed her to hit her stride.
She genuinely looked like she's got more on her ball now, Svitolina. Really, in those rallies, she was able to be the one turning the tables and bringing her pace to Rabatkin. And part of that is the Rebecca decline, I think. But part of it is Svitolina just playing so, so well at the moment. I think a nine-man...
Nine-match winning streak she might be on at the moment if you include the Billie Jean King Cup as well. She's really hit this... vein of form which is great to see and there were actually three ukrainians through to the through to the last 16 in madrid marta kostyuk's been so impressive as well coming through some some really hard for matches um so yeah like those are the things that sort of struck me watching
Yeah, Peyton Stearns that you mentioned, she is today's opponent for Irina Sabalenka, who's there at the top of the draw and heavy, heavy favourite to come through it to the final. As Charlie said, you know, Sabalenka, Svante Carr. are on this collision course to repeat the final of last year. But a lot of good players standing in the way. I feel like the last one we should pick out to talk about a player that...
that's out of the tournament, Jung Chin Wen, she lost her opening match to Anastasia Potapova, 6-4, 6-4. We haven't talked a lot about Jung Chin Wen this year. She has not had good results. She has not had a good year so far. But I think that we've been... reserving judgment, reserving having takes because we know she came into the year with an injury. We also know that, you know, she's kind of defending a lot for the first time.
defending those final points from the Australian Open last year. You know, life's changed for a lot. We know how big a deal it is for China to have a... you know, a really top tennis player, a gold medal winning tennis player and suddenly endorsements and commitments wise, everything has changed. I think, I think we've been, you know. cutting her results a lot of slack for that suite of reasons. But I do think it's time now to potentially...
Look at these results and sound the alarm bell, David, because they are worrying. It's not building, doesn't feel like it's going in the right direction. It feels like it's headed for a crisis, really, if not already in. Yeah, that's the difference. There's the lack of building foundations. This isn't gathering momentum anywhere. It's just hitting the buffers constantly.
I sense that she's somebody who has a lot of expectations to play all the time. I'm not saying she... plays when she shouldn't but i do sometimes think crikey you know you don't look fully fit or something you know sometimes there's a shoulder or taped up and I don't know, but maybe it is just a rut. But it is pretty alarming. I mean, it's okay to lose matches, of course.
But she's losing them pretty comprehensively against Anastasia Potapova there. And I don't expect that. Not when you get onto clay. So... I don't know what... I dare say it'll come again for her in the long run, but it doesn't feel like it's imminent. I don't see her necessarily being a factor at Ronan Garros. She's going to need to get some wins, sharpish, I think, just to get some confidence. Yeah, I'm not quite there with you on this in terms of like how bad it's been. Like I think...
I think it was bad at the start, but as you said, we did have all of those circumstances that you've laid out. But like Indian Wells Miami, she won three matches at both of those tournaments and lost to Sviontek and Sabaleng. Charleston, she won two matches and lost to Alexandrova. Like, Alexandrova's been having a very, very good year. Madrid...
That's not a great loss. She's only ever won one match in Madrid. To me, it's possible that she doesn't like the conditions there. They're so particular in Madrid. I can sort of imagine... Honestly, hands up, I didn't see the match. But I can sort of imagine... Jung Shin Wen just having a bit of a trouble controlling the ball in Madrid. You know, the way it flies off her strings and the way it flies through the air. She doesn't love it.
For sure, she doesn't look that comfortable. I agree the trajectory is not... great and is a little bit concerning but like she didn't play all that well in this part of the season last year it was a it was a it was a back heavy year in terms of like the olympics onwards where she had her result
So I think if we get back to those sorts of events where she's had success before and she doesn't have success, I suppose I'll be a bit more alarmed. But I don't know, I'm not quite sounding the alarm personally yet, but I do... I do take the point that we haven't really been... slight lack of form and she came into the year feeling like one of the contenders for the biggest titles because of how good she was and she does feel way off that at the moment i do take that but
I don't know. I think maybe she's starting to build again and Madrid has come along and not been good for her. But if this continues for a few more tournaments, I'll be there with you. OK, we'll revisit with Matt, if and when, in a few tournaments' time. OK, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three with a few bits and bobs of other business.
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very much still suspended in Madrid. I mean, obviously this is a problem extending far beyond the Mutua Madrid Open, but it also does seem to be a bit of a disaster for the Mutua Madrid Open. Yes, we're now looking at the stadium which is meant to be with Dimitrov and Fernley, but it's a Sabalenka practice.
because I guess you can still have a practice session when there's no power, but you can't play a match because the line calling and the umpire and all that kind of thing. And yeah, no play before 2.30 local time. As we speak, and that will be about a two-hour delay, I think, at least. It seems like it might even end up being more than that. Yeah, pretty catastrophic. Do we know that's a definite...
They're going to play at 230 or is that one of those where they could keep putting it back? Do we have power? No. Are any lights on? No. OK. All right. Of course, it's very, very bright because it's Madrid and it's always extremely bright, as we know, because of the sun making the tennis on. But I think backstage there's still no power and all the spectators are plunged into darkness.
Yeah, don't worry about the power card. The tennis is unwatchable anyway. Maybe everybody should withdraw from Madrid and head to it. Well, actually, no, it's in Portugal as well, isn't it? The power card. I was going to say head to the Estoril Challenger. which is what Felix Orgelia Seam and Joel Fonseca are doing. They're playing Challenger event there this week, which I always... really like it when players drop down a level.
Naomi Osaka is doing it this week. The WTA 125 event in Saint-Malo in France. That's an interesting one, isn't it, David? Naomi Osaka doing that. Yes, I guess it shows how much she's looking for some momentum and some form. It also shows how much she wants it. There are a lot of players I don't think who would be doing it. and I hope it happens for her for a number of reasons I mean she is still one of the best watches in the sport when she's on her game. And we've seen...
Little shoots here and there haven't we and then she'll run into an injury or then the form evaporates or she'll have a bad loss or one that she narrowly loses But at no point since she's come back has she been able to string it together in the way that she's been looking for. And I admire the perseverance, really. But I wonder how long... she'll be able to keep upbeat about it if it continues to not happen.
Dan Evans is playing Estrava this week. That news brought to me this morning by my dad, who put the requisite four exclamation marks on Estrava. Very good. Well done, Dad. OK, so and presumably we hope that tennis will also happen in Madrid this week. We've got several podcasts resting on it. So subject to power returning to the Spain.
Spain and Portugal regions. We'll be back on Thursday with another sort of midway podcast about goings on in Madrid. And then our post Madrid pod will be on Sunday night. Live on YouTube. We usually do these the Monday after a combined 1000 event, but we're doing it on a Sunday this time. just for funsies to see if you like it. Let us know. I'm sure you'll let us know if you don't like it because that's how the internet works.
But we will be back on Thursday with a normal pod and on Sunday with our post Madrid pod that will also be live at 8pm Sunday night after the men's final. in Madrid. So do join us live for that on YouTube if you can and if you'd like to. It'll be available as a podcast as normal as well. We have a mascot for this episode, folks. I'm seeing her for the first time. The mascot is Cookie and Cookie is owned by Aaliyah.
Aaliyah says hello from a long time listener. Yeah, we know Aaliyah. She says, I've been a friend in various guises from its lawn. Oh, my. And we're taking our first foray into the pet mascot world. Say hello to my four-year-old shih tzu, Cookie. She made a brief on-camera appearance on the 2024 end-of-year quiz. I remember. Leah. We rehomed her when she was four months old and she's the absolute best, though I'm probably a little biased, she said.
She's small but mighty with this fluffy coat that makes her look like a walking teddy bear. Some have likened her to an Ewok. Her personality is a perfect mix of playful energy and ultimate chill vibe. One of Cookie's favourite things in the world is going for walks. We've got a bit of a routine. I pop in my earbuds, hit play on the tennis podcast and we're off.
While I'm getting the latest updates and often chuckling to myself at something funny, you've said Cookie is laser focused on the squirrels. Jean's too tired to even register that. If she had her way she'd probably climb every tree in the park to chase them down. She never catches them. but that doesn't stop her from trying every single time. This is sounding very familiar, Aaliyah. When she's not out there being the queen of the squirrel patrol, Cookie's other great love is cheese.
Dog after my own heart. The moment I unwrap a piece of cheddar, she appears out of nowhere staring at me. Of course, I always give her a tiny bit. It's impossible to say no to that face. Aaliyah, you're describing my life. And then there are the naps. Oh, my God. She has this uncanny ability to find the coziest spot in the house, whether it's a sunbeam on the carpet or the corner of the sofa while I'm watching tennis. She is quite the snorer.
Cookie isn't just a pet, she's family. Whether we're out exploring or just chilling at home, she makes every day brighter and it is our honour for her to be a tennis podcast pet mascot. It is our honour too, Aaliyah. She is... gorgeous um and i absolutely love the reference to um Cookie being likened to an Ewok because my brother always says about Billie Jean that she's a combination between an Ewok and Princess Di. So that's...
That's Cookie. It's the eyes. It's a sort of, you know, the watery, big, pleading eyes. Cookie is spectacular. And she's going to be in our newsletter and on our socials and in my heart. As is Phoebe, my wonderful mascot. Hello, Phoebe. Hello to David's mascot, Maisie, and Matt's mascot, lovely Roger, who's... Probably enormous by now, Matt. Have we had a size update on Roger recently? We haven't, but I will check in with Carrie for you.
Yeah, I'd like a size and weight update, please. Okay. On Roger. Yeah. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff and Matt. We have some shout out. We start with Catherine Koyser from Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. Hello, Catherine. Mount Pleasant. Mount Pleasant is apparently just a seven-minute drive from the Charleston Oats. How are we spelling Catherine? Same church, same pew. Same church, same pew. What a pew it is.
Come and join me, Catherine. You're already there. We're hanging out together. And Catherine says that she met David at the French Open in 2023, just outside of his favourite court. that's where you want to be meeting me Catherine that's one of my best well she says he was just as kind as you Thanks very much. Thank you, Catherine. No notes. Lovely stuff. We've also got Cassandra Wagner from San Antonio, Texas. I know not a single tennis player called Cassandra. That's what Cassandra says. Oh.
But that always means that we're definitely going to get a text from Pam when we declare that we know no tennis players. Which is always a great moment. Thank you, Cassandra, for that. There must be a Cassie. I went to school. I had a friend at school called Cassie Visram. Bumped into her in a French Connection dressing room a couple of years ago. Was that as awkward as it sounds? It was OK. We, you know, we pledged to get a drink that we both knew women were going to get.
Lovely stuff. And that was fine. Yeah. Anything else about Cassandra? Cassandra met Pete Sampras once. Wow. Was there parmesan involved? At the Franklin Templeton Clash. I do remember that. I'm trying to remember which tournament. Arizona. Is that Scottsdale? Scottsdale, Arizona. There you go. So was he a player? Was he a visitor? This is what I want to know. Pete Sampras isn't going to... Isn't going to 250 in his spare time, is he? OK, well, that's a long time. Let us know, Cassandra.
Lovely stuff. Thank you. And finally we have Aaron Walls from San Francisco. Hello, Aaron. Hi, Aaron. Aaron says, like Aaron Quickstein. Absolutely. And he also says, I enjoy volunteer captaining the USTA teams for the Gay and Lesbian Tennis Federation. And Aaron says, I relate to Matt's love of backhands because I'm a weird righty who runs around my forehand to hit backhands. Absolutely. Pam Schreiber will tell you off, but I say keep doing it, Aaron.
There you go, Aaron. That's awesome. Thank you so much, Aaron, Cassandra and Catherine. Thank you very much. Your support of the Tennis Podcast, a reminder that tickets go on sale for friends to our June 26th live show at Shoreditch. Town Hall in London at 10am on Wednesday the 30th of April and then our general sale starts on Friday the 2nd of May. My birthday. Friday, the 2nd of May. Happy Matt Roberts Day.
There's two of them. It's like the king and queen. Matt gets two of them. One of them's on Friday. Very big day. Also the day our general sale starts for... London live show tickets 10am on Friday. Links will be everywhere. You won't be able to move for us sending you and posting links to buy tickets to that show. So look out for that. Folks, thanks for listening. We'll be back on Thursday.
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