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Well hello and welcome to the tennis podcast Monday the 23rd of September introduced brilliantly there by Jimmy who is trying to make Hollywood happen. When I first listened to that intro I thought, Safa Slundin, that is where I live and yet I have not heard of or seen on any street sign this mysterious location started furiously googling Hollywood.
Anyway then read Jimmy's blurb which he very hopefully sent to us which explains that he is desperately trying to make Hollywood as a nickname for Collie's Wood happen fetch style.
I'm not sure Jimmy but seeing as you've paid for an intro let's go with it, let's earnestly call it Collie Wood I appreciate your efforts and you've said lovely things about the podcast in particular that you finally got your wife Becky into the podcast as a result of dragging her to the live show in Bushhall he says he made her sit in the front row and lo and behold she loved every minute and is now a fully fledged listener which is a story that we loved to hear.
Matt is here, David is here, how you doing folks? Alright thanks, not enjoying this weather, let's move on. Wow. Okay. Anything to add Matt? I'm fine thank you yes and I feel like it's the annual Labour Cup show and I'm embraced for it.
It's the annual Labour Cup show in every year we have the conundrum of how do we not just repeat ourselves from the previous year and the year before that you know this was the seventh edition of the Labour Cup and we have said the same thing with various different
names inserted in different locations many many times now so we're going to try and bring you a slightly different flavour and a different perspective this time and for that I'm very pleased to welcome to the show the athletics Charlie Echolshear who has been in Berlin covering this Labour Cup Charlie welcome it's great to have you. Thanks very much great to be here.
My very my my most pressing question for you Charlie is whether the hotel you were staying in Berlin was any better or more appropriate than where you were housed throughout the US open. It was certainly a bit a located because it was about a three minute walk from the UBER arena and that kind of convenience is just amazing.
To be able to walk back if you want between sessions and things like that not that I ever actually got to do that but yes it was it was it was a nice lovely breakfast as well. And seeing as you were restrained enough not to mention it in your your voice note I don't think from the the US open on our on our review show just just fill the listeners in on what your accommodations were in New York.
We were staying I was staying in basically on Times Square and it was kind of the only like living in London my reference point was it was basically staying in Piccadilly Circus and so every night you'd come back at like 2 a.m. and it's still just buzzing you know light everywhere it's just like a salt on the senses and as a kind of like like that's where you're living it's it's quite weird it's quite frazzly.
And on the first night when I checked it I was like yeah and they were like how long you here for it's like 18 nights okay. Nobody's ever done that before. Yeah they're like you sure yeah this is home for me the next two and a half weeks. 18 nights in a room with a with a direct view of M&M World. Yeah M&M World was my local that's quite an experience.
Yeah well Charlie you this is not the first time you've come on the show to give your Labour Cup takes is it you were on our 2019 show which I can't believe was was five years ago now and David being the diligent podcaster that he is has gone back and listened to that show to remind himself of our takes from five years ago. Yeah I enjoyed it very much enjoyed the show we were sitting in a pub a very noisy pub and fortunately for my audio senses we can still hear ourselves so that was a relief.
We were very much still in early Matt Roberts days relatively speaking so that was good that thankfully he was on whereas the 2017 version that I also listened to yesterday Matt wasn't on what what what comes through loud and clear is that you and I used to have a lot of arguments Catherine that we don't seem to have anymore because we had an argument in both shows. We have hang on we have fewer arguments now than we used to.
Yes certainly certainly on air so let's change that immediately and go back to where we were before but yes you and I argued about the role of Bjorn Borg and you were you were adamant that he had he was not a good captain choice whatsoever because he doesn't say anything and I just made the point well he never said anything to you in his whole career anyway so he's just being Bjorn Borg and they seem to be winning every year so everything's fine. Anyway we had a brief falling out about that.
On the 2017 version we were we were just talking about the sort of I guess the legitimacy of the event in its stated goal of trying to become the rider cup of tennis and you know we'll have a bit about that as well I'm sure in the in the course of this show but yeah we're five years ago was the addition when Roger Federer and Raffa and the Dow were turning the air blue in the direction of Alexander Sverve on the cameras and and that got our our interest up.
I mean it was frankly it was it was doing great business that the Lava Cup was five years ago in terms of interest I think in creating social media kind of buzz and and that was a big part of it and we were all speculating what happens when there's no Roger Federer
playing the sport anymore and and what happens when Raffa and the Dow's maybe not there and and that sort of thing Matt and I argued about whether whether actually all the efforts should be going into the Davis Cup that was my proposal rather than you know Roger Federer
should be putting his efforts into that rather than creating his own side venture Matt was very much like well actually Matt was really into the Lava Cup and and was saying well it's only three days you know what's what's the problem so that so that happened Matt also wanted to know what the point of the alternate was Catherine then named Nicholas Jerry and everybody laugh. And because Jerry was a thing in 2019 he was an alternate he was the first time I think I'd ever heard of him.
I think at the time he was and and remains I believe the lowest and alternate there has ever been at the Lava Cup. Yes. Matt I give you right to reply there but and and Matt also revealed that that he'd listened on the train down to the pub Matt revealed that he'd listened to the previous years Lava Cup podcast so filling in the blanks between 2017 and 2019 he'd listened to 2018 when apparently
we led we led with something else entirely on the show and we just did the Lava Cup at the end whereas this one we were we were back to leading the agenda with it but we were all still trying to work out what's it going to be in I guess five years time and well here
we are five years on a pandemic later we didn't know six months on from that pub we wouldn't be going in a pub for about three years and yes we had a good chat but it was an enjoyable event I think but we had lots of questions about it. I forgot Matt that you were a bit of a Lava Cup guy.
Yeah I think in those early days you know 2017 I was simply just a tennis fan at the time I wasn't working in the sport at all and I got to see Federer and Nadal playing doubles together and I thought that was really really cool and I really don't want to lose that
perspective because I think it is a very popular event with certain tennis fans they get to see things that they just don't see week in week out and I think I think that is cool I think it's remained a big selling point of the tournament over the years like I do like
seeing the slightly odd doubles combinations that you get and how they work and I absolutely adore the interactions between the players it is a content machine the Lava Cup in terms of churning out those clippable moments and you know I had a great time this weekend
watching the tennis yes but mostly listening to the interactions at the change of ends that's the bit that grabs me the most the tennis players talking about tennis with other players is fascinating to me they are way more interesting the way they break down
the sport and talk about their rivals in those little chats than they kind of ever are in impress conferences or interviews with us because I guess they think they are on a level with the other players and I just love hearing all that and Dimitrov the coach
an absolute revelation this weekend and Carlos Alcaraz chipping in with a little bit of advice Kasper Rude trying to do it very politely and say I have come up with this but take it or leave it but this is kind of what I think and instead of you see their personalities
in that in a way that we just don't see throughout the tour and so I think I love that from the beginning and I still love that now I suppose the way my position has probably changed slightly since 2017 2018 those early days is that I do look more at the sport as a whole
now and I think more about the calendar and I think more about inequalities and I think about the fact that there's no labor cup for the women and those kind of things which great on me and also we're now in a in a time where the whole Alexander's Verve of it
all is very different to it was back in those early days and you know let's not forget that some of the very first allegations made against Verve came from a labor cup you know and that has kind of always just ever since then put a little bit of a cloud over
the event for me but in terms of what it can still offer the sport over three days this glitzy glamorous event that is packaged in a way where where fans can go and they know they're going to get guaranteed top stars which they don't get throughout the rest of
the tennis season you can't buy those sorts of tickets elsewhere like I think there is a lot going for it but there were just some sort of issues in terms of how it fits into the whole sort of narrative of the sport I suppose which I kind of see now which
I didn't see back in the early days and Charlie there are kind of two caveats that we I think every year that we've covered the labor cup like everything we say comes with the two caveats which is number one like we know we're coming at it with the privilege
of being people that get to travel and see lots of lots and lots of tennis you know as Matt's described there he views it differently now than he did when he was just a tennis fan he doesn't want to forget how it was just as a tennis fan and number two we've never
we've never been to one and you know you can see it's something that sweeps people up I've spoken to a lot of people even journalists that have been there and and get swept up in it and maybe we would feel different if if we had been to one so enter Charlie Eccleshire
fresh from Berlin how how do you feel about the labor cup right now and how is it changed as a result of being there this time I definitely think going there does give you more enthusiasm for it it's hard not to like a lot of those things Matt describes seeing them up close
even like the first press conference when they're all in there together and it's just really funny seeing how they interact and get you know you what we're all craving as journalists as fans is access and that does feel like a bit of a window in whether that's you know
what Matt describes the players talking on the sidelines which I agree is fascinating or in a press conference when they come in and they're so much more relaxed than they are in a kind of solo pre talk pre-grants land press conference and you just you just get
little insights into the dynamics and the way that they take the piss out of Carlos Alcoraz or another lovely Casper Roode moment was they were asked kind of you know what were some funny stories from you know your team dinner and everyone kind of you know
looks the other way and Casper just very places and can I say something and tells this like very sweet story about how Carlos Alcoraz had never heard of the Concord because he was basically not born when it was still running and they all had a good laugh about that
and and yeah I thought like you know like Dimitra of the coach and you know you get to see him in Medvedev staying on the court talking tactics after Medvedev has lost and the production values are high it looks great it feels great I mean the way I feel towards the labor
cup is it's you know it's very Roger Federer it's that kind of all the brand sponsors are deluxe everything looks the part everything's well thought out I think you know the fact that they have a distinctive colored core the colors of the the two teams I think it you
know it has a cool feel to it and overall my feeling is like I think what we always obsessed about early on was like how much does this matter you know do they really do the players really care and all of that and you know I think that's the legitimate question but I feel
like now actually especially in like a grand slam year and an Olympic year where everyone looks so frazzled mentally and physically I actually think having an event where yes they care loads but they don't have the same kind of existential angst that they do at a grand
slam or or even you know at Olympics it felt like this year it's maybe not such a bad thing at this point you know like they actually looked like they were kind of enjoying themselves a lot of the time and that yes they're fully into it if they do during the match but you
don't get that same you know if I don't think any of the players of course they're going to be really disappointed the team world guys they didn't win but I don't think it's going to like haunt them for days weeks months but maybe that's okay you know I don't know I just
don't know if there's space in tennis right now given the demands that the grand slams and like said the Olympics this year puts on them I don't know if there's space to have another you know if this was like a rider cup right now the tension and to go straight
from like a grand slam to that I'm just not sure I'm not sure a lot of the players could cope there's so much pressure on them anyway so I kind of think it works at the moment as a kind of for a lot of the players the sense I got was actually coming and playing
a team event was quite sort of liberating that they weren't going straight to a big you know to a nut to getting back on the hamster wheel of the tour now obviously they were taught there as well why don't you know what about Davis Cup couldn't they get the same
kind of decompression and lift of being in a team from going and doing that instead and that's a perfectly legitimate question but at the moment the lever cup has a lot to offer you know I do think the federer of it the fact that you know you get exposed to
so many legends of the game and it's not just the captains but there are lots of you know former players who are there and I think it's I think that that is a big draw for the players plus and this is another thing rude said he was like you actually get to talk
because you're playing with rather than against these guys you actually get to talk to them properly in a way that it's not just the small talk he you know he said you know normally at tournaments yeah you see these players but you barely talk to them and if you do it's
kind of like you know small talk of what's your next event etc he said with this you actually get to chat to them you get to know them and I do think there's something in that and my sense overall the way it felt to me it looked a bit like if you've been working from
home for a while and then you actually go into the office and you actually see your colleagues and you're kind of like oh this is actually quite nice and you know I'm sort of it feels a bit less intense and a little bit more relaxed that was kind of the feel I got and that was nice seeing that different side of the players and I think they really did relish being in that slightly different environment.
That's a really interesting take is so often we we end up dwelling on the the mattering of it all and that's that's kind of I that is partly us but that's partly the rhetoric that comes out of the the LabourCobb organises themselves themselves right that are they're
really trying to make something happen in terms of this being a significant meaningful event in the tennis world and actually there was there was some quotes coming out from Tony Godsick of teammate Roger Federer's agent obviously heavily involved with with the
LabourCobb as is as is Roger Federer before the tournament or on the first day of the tournament which kind of David suggested a little bit of a rowback on that which we were all very pleased to see there was just a slight shift in language about where they want the event
to sit in the tennis world but then there were some quotes that came out in an article yesterday on the LabourCobb website which were very much a return to what we've seen before of we want this to to grow into what what the writer carpe is and some some what I thought
were quite disappointing quotes about any intentions to include women one day the the quote from Tony Godsick kind of said we're going to optimise it for men and then we'll think about women but yeah so it we kind of ended up in the same place as where we started
but there were we were all quite pleased want me to see those quotes a few days ago which did suggest that shift David yeah that's the thing I ice it was in an announcement to say that there were there was an extension of five years to the ATP calibration that they had
done it would be sanctioned by them great and and actually the words that we used by both Tony Godsick and the the CEO Steve Zacharynkin and the the the ATP's head Andrea Gannonzi was was talking about the history of the sport and a way to engage players from the past and
and and celebrate the history the fact that it's named after Rodlay the fact that he's there and the fact that the it was in Berlin and they've got Boris Becker and Steffi Graf was there and Michael Sticke apparently and and then then talking about the next
captains that are coming in Yannick no and Andrea Garcia and both of them were there and they were interviewed I do like all that and and and I like the fact that the the tone of it wasn't and you better take us seriously because we're the most important event and
we're going to be the rider cup of tennis which I just think is completely unrealistic and and and and that wasn't in that release and I was really pleased about that because I actually really enjoyed laver cup I enjoyed the whole three days of it all partly I think because
I I've sort of realized where I sit on it all and and it feels like the event is there that's the level that it's at now more or less it's a brilliantly run event it it's absolutely packed out more than 10,000 every single day great fun great tennis actually some really good
matches just enjoyed watching the tennis and I took the decision because it was offered on this the discovery app to watch it without commentary and that's nothing against the commentators who are excellent commentators on that event and particularly I mean on your sport they
added Joe jury and Simon Reed and and Arvin Palmer and Chris Bradnam all of whom I enjoy listening to and and the world feed the kind of one they put out from within it they're all very established commentators but I enjoy just not having kind of the when it's the
world feed you in never to be get the tournaments verdicts on at all and and kind of like that the cell and I don't want the cell I just want to watch it and I want to listen to those conversations between those team members because they're fascinating and we really did
discover stuff about them but then the quotes that were then added in this in the separate article article we're again referencing you know with the rider cup has got a 90 year head start on us is what Tony got sick said and okay yes it has but I'm sorry you're never
going to make people care in the same way about team world you were just never going to achieve that and because all of Europe's team and all of Europe is part of the world part of team world as well okay so that doesn't work and and the bottom line is I absolutely
enjoyed all of this but I didn't have this not in my stomach about everything that was going on because I cared so much about who won and lost and I think that that applies to most people I think the players in the moment they're really they're really competitive
they're really cared and they really wanted to win but they will go on next week and they won't think about it too much if you lost the rider cup that stays with you if you win the rider cup it stays with you and that's just one of those things and I think that's
absolutely fine so I'm much more comfortable with it now generally and you know I mean I'm sure we'll talk about the actual tennis which was just great fun and great competition and there were like little narratives that were building that had built all year long
and then we're coming like another installment of it like the Taylor Fritz Alexander's Ver have match you know and those sort of things I enjoyed the three days and and taking what what Charlie said David if it if it did matter like the rider cup if there were
not in people's stomach maybe you'd lose some of the some of the actual USPs of the Lava Cup which is the slight levity of the players you know the the the the the weight of the tennis tour seeming to be sort of slightly lifted from them and the looseness of their
interactions with one another I think that's that's a really interesting way of looking at it I agree with that it is quite a hard balance to strike because I think in the past I've always been like oh they should totally lean into the exhibition side of it but
actually I hate exhibitions really in terms of like I hate it when players aren't trying and it doesn't seem to matter to the players so I sort of caught myself there and thought no I as long as the players sort of care enough in the moment and the matches are good
and the entertainment is there I can get on board with that but just as David said I could really do without the constant sale of you know this is the best entertainment we've seen all year and this is going to be tennis is right a cut I just think it is
a hard balance to strike between those two things but like personally I've I've sort of found that place now myself I'm like this isn't the right a cut I'm going to enjoy it for what it is in terms of you know great content from these players great matches
it's going to look great and it's a nice break from kind of everything else that we have and I think I think the bigger problem is the tennis schedule as a whole like they're absolutely should be room for an event like the Labour Cup in tennis and I think if the rest of the tour like had some proper rest periods built in where an event like Labour Cup could fit in it would make so much more sense to me.
I mean I think on this sort of point about bigging itself up I do think it's funny because like yeah I think there are times when it doesn't need to so much and everything is so bombastic and it's funny like at the launch event you know it's all this sort of gala
black tie do and it's you know it's it's great but they have you know everything's so height so all the players and captains and vice captains come on to the stage and they all get introduced you know giving it the bigger and you know that's fine if it's fed
or in a doubt when it's like Alejandro Tobilo when it's a woohoo and then like the funniest moment I found is everyone comes onto a song and Thomas Enquist you know the most like reserved guy comes on to I love rock and roll and it just seemed it was so incongruous
that like because the whole thing is so just like were you know it's this so bombastic the whole thing which maybe works but yeah I could definitely you know Mack and Roe again was really pushing that right a cup thing and one of his press conferences and I agree
it like I really do think there is something there and it's fine yeah and also we're so early on I mean this was with it's seven years since the start you know it was it was never gun I don't think ever it was gonna have that sort of importance that quickly but
yeah I think it I think it that's it's bang on that they're kind of the fact that it isn't so it feels at the moment like a good level of pressure and how much they care and I think they should you know kind of lean into that and the key thing is just attracting the players and having some like Alcarez is massive for that.
Well and I'm desperate to know other people's walk on songs now. What was Alejandro to be like so I didn't know them that like that was the anchor so I was the one I know to down because I found it so funny the others were similar I mean it was all like similar stuff to that so you know when you're introducing like Alejandro de Bilo and Francisco Serrindelo to like those similar sort of songs and you know to be low split is quite like a shy guy and he sort of looks quite embarrassed.
Yeah it was a thing. Well need to go back to the archives and find out what Nicholas Jerry was walking out in 2019. We've got 25 minutes in and I haven't even mentioned the results. Team Europe
won by the way for the fifth time ending team worlds two years streak a 13-11 win. Carlos Alcarez winning the decisive match against Taylor Fritz Alcarez I think winning more points than any one individual player is ever won in in Levercup that doesn't mean he won more matches because obviously there's this structure of one point for wins on day two to points
on day three three on day three you get it but anyway there's the tennis. What stood out for you in terms of the tennis and just everything you observed kind of between the lines of the tennis court including court side coaching stuff I mean I think everybody's touched on Grigal Dimitrov the coach haven't they that feels like something we should focus
on. Yeah that was definitely one of the big takeaways. I mean to the point even where he at the start of the match tie break against Tiafo and Mervedev was playing Dimitrov told him where to serve Dimitrov you know Mervedev basically asked him is that what do you think I should serve. Dimitrov told him Mervedev went with it and won the point so you know there's clearly something in it. I mean yeah one of my most striking images was them kind of
talking afterwards in depth about the match. I enjoyed Francis Tiafo is this competition's perfect for him you know he really gets to you know he's walking around the place backstage in sunglasses looking like a rock star just loving the vibe and he said as well which was quite interesting that against Mervedev he tried actively to turn it into a bit of like get the crowd involved because he said he wanted to lure kind of Mervedev into doing similar
and he was like I would back myself in that environment to thrive. Alkarez I thought it was really I think he really relished that and I think what I love is seeing like the best people at any sport trying to impress people trying to impress their peers and I think there was a lot of that going on like he loves putting on a show and he loved doing it for his peers and his colleagues and and it was funny because you could see their reaction
on one hand is like God I'm glad he's on our team. The other thinking God we're going to have to play him again soon and Jesus he's good like this is this is kind of worrying I mean when he did that sort of drop shot smash thing so it was like I guess I'm my focus
you know my sense is that the fans really enjoyed it and like David says it's well attended but my focus I guess was more on the players and their interactions and just seeing their mood because I do think having come from the US open where you know it's had this kind
of haunted exhausted look it was just really striking to me seeing that a lot of them did feel quite revitalized you know someone like Ben Shelton getting to play with the Alpha Clip and Shelton talked a lot about how his background is college tennis and this felt like a bit of a throwback to that so all of those dynamics all of those interactions those are the things that I think I'll most take away with me.
I think personally whenever Alkora has his at an event he sort of ends up becoming kind of the main character for me and I did find it fascinating how a member in those early days of the Lava Cup we did talk a lot about how in awe of Federer and Nadal and Jock
of each the other players were in those interactions and it struck me that kind of as Charlie said they're like already these players are in awe of what Carlos Alkora's can do there was there was a moment when Shelton was playing Alkora's in the singles Shelton and Tiafa
had a conversation about well we're not going to be able to stop him tennis wise so we need to come up with some kind of plan to throw him off like we need to make him laugh or make him like get in his head and do something like and they were joking about how Shelton
was going to pass him at the net and say god you're playing like Federer in 05 and like maybe Alkora's would would sort of freak out at that thought like that was the sort of level that they've got to in terms of like how good Carlos Alkora is and just the conversations
that were going on in team world when it didn't really matter who was playing him it was singles or doubles they were all just sort of in awe of how good Carlos Alkora's was and is and is going to keep being and I found that pretty fascinating and just generally
how much fresher he looks then at the start of the US open and you know it wasn't I think last year and certainly the year before we'd really wondered whether we'd ever seen Carlos Alkora's play good tennis indoors you know we sort of wondered whether there was something
about his game that didn't suit indoors or no I just think it turns out that he just hasn't been fresh at this time of the season in a way that he is now he was electric in his been one of his matches at the Davis Cup against Umbair and he was absolutely brilliant
in his two singles in the Lava Cup and I think Alkora's probably is set up for his strongest end to the season that he's that he's kind of ever had I've been really struck by by how well he's playing in these in these last couple of weeks. Any other revelations I'm not sure method of is that much of a Lava Cup guy.
No, I mean I don't know what you thought watching but I mean he really could have got himself defaulted with one racket throw that went sort of car wheeling across the court in frustration into the photographer's pit and kind of into the stand and the players
on the other team Tiafo and one or two of the others they wanted they wanted him defaulted for that they didn't understand how he wasn't getting getting shocked out for that and Mamala and he gave him a warning front sportsman like contact but just generally his vibe just seems a little bit detached from the rest and kind of as though he's just not really that into this I don't know what did it come like.
I mean I was thinking about meverdeva as well because he hasn't been able to play you know he can't play Davis Cup and those sorts of competitions so I you know I was thinking that's an even more different dynamic for him.
I mean he was build in the kind of pre event press conference as you know the tactical mind of the team which I thought was quite interesting they were all kind of given their little roles by Todd Woodbridge who did that first press conference and one thing that was quite interesting actually about that they he asked for it since Vera as the kind of most experienced players you know in laver cup terms and probably the oldest on each team apart from Dimitrov.
You know are you going to be a sort of leader of the team this week and both of them were kind of like no that's absolutely the captain's job and you almost got a sense they were like no like we just want to think this week we want to be in the hands of
the captains and all of that because we have enough you know normal tournament weeks there's enough pressure and you know we have to think about these things and actually this week is about you know just being in that team environment and slightly being carried I think they're
quite enjoyed you know you know the fact that it's Borg and Mac and Rowe the guys who are kind of nominally in charge anyway and it will be really interesting like the most fascinating I was this piece will come out the next few days I was able to watch a set with Andreagasy
which was unbelievable I mean like obviously his insights are just off the scale but I'm really interested to see how he is as the team captain you know John Mac and Rowe said he was like you know Agassiz more analytical and I just wonder if he'll be more hands on I think
you know by this point Mac and Rowe he's more you know Mac and Rowe is more about just giving little bits and pieces of advice which to be honest Agassiz said you know once you're at a match stage that's all you can really do you know with a hard work goes in around it but I think
that those changes will be interesting Janic Noah's are coming in for Borg you know might just freshen things up a little bit because I think as much as we love Borg and Mac and Rowe there's not that much more they can say about tennis in the public set you know we've kind of heard it all in some ways and you know as we discussed five years ago seven years ago Borg yeah he's not the most vocal he's an amazing presence to have but I think yeah no an Agassiz could really add something.
Are the vice captains changing as well because that's been a good little side hustle for Patrick Mac and Rowe and Thomas Enquist isn't it? Yeah I think they are no more I love rock and roll for Thomas Enquist. It would be weird if it was Janic Noah and Thomas Enquist and
Andre Agassiz in Patrick Mac and Rowe wouldn't it? Thomas Enquist as well did prompt me to I looked him up because I was mentioning him in a piece and I just wanted to check something and I forgotten he reached the Australian Open Final in 99 which I then went to and David I sent
this to Matt actually I think it might be pound for pound the worst set of quarterfinals at a Grand Slam ever it is an absolute abomination because I just read you these now I mean you might remember this you might remember this sort of off top of your head but I'll get this up these were
these were the eight called finest Todd Martin you have Gennie Kaffelnick of Tommy Harz Vince Spadia Mark Rossay Thomas Enquist Carol Couchera and Nicholas LePente oh god I'd quite a lot of new quite a lot of new balls please guys in there that's that's not good
if you can't hype that up that's pretty bad now and I remember when it was it was Kaffelnick of Enquist in the final and it was just it was just really hard to get up for it and it kind of you need to have a reason for one of them to win and I know that sounds disrespectful but it's not
meant to I there were both good really good players but they were good opponents a lot of the time they were the main event guy and and yeah Enquist struggled really to play is very best in that finally lost in it but I'm just on on Yannick no I heard him interviewed he came on the in the
studio and I do find him an interesting choice I mean he is one of the all-time great Davis Cup captains in terms of impact the hat on the 1991 French Davis Cup team he just he just revolutionized that whole vibe and and and again in 96 he came back and he took them to the help tilt tight
into the title and I feel like he made a really tangible difference to every player he made them play above themselves and I just wonder which version of him we're going to get for this I mean he's a good bit older now you know I mean he's really Borg and McHenro's era not Agassi's era
really and and and he's such an incredible showman I mean you could put him in an exhibition that I would genuinely watch even though I've seen it 20 times because he's so much fun I mean he's just he is a natural born entertainer but is that really what they want at this event I mean he's
easy is he going to get a bit too into that side of things they're going to have to I don't know what they do whether they have a word of them and say no no it's not that you know we're not doing the giggles here this is this is meant to be serious because he's so much fun I mean he could
take the thing over and and entertainers you imagine there could be a bit of an incident like there was with Monfice last year yeah I think that's possible well how did Monfice describe the Lava Cup last year I think he was just a bit confused by like why why do you chose me if you
don't want me to do me yeah exactly but I don't know I listen I I love being in the company or watching Yanik Noah and saying with Andre Agassi really so I'm fascinated but I don't necessarily feel like that that will take it any closer to it's sort of stated goal of rider cup
Nuss which frankly I just think it shouldn't be a goal because I don't think it's possible in terms of just other little takeaways from players Catherine it was it was pointed out that the sort of irony of this being the first time that Medvedev has won an event for the second time
although he contributed zero points almost got disqualified and does it actually count so I found that quite entertaining I think one of the slight I don't know whether it's an issue with the competition it's something that I find a little bit annoying is terms of like how the players
disappear because you've got this this point scale so like Surunderlow played a really good match the very first match of the of the whole thing and then isn't played again for the rest of of the event because they they want to use their big players in the second half and I think
that's happened quite a lot over the years they're like like teams of yes they've been six players but they've really felt like sort of two or three players which maybe is totally fine maybe people want to see Shelton loads and Tiafo loads and I get that but I do think that sort of jars
a bit with the whole thing about sort of it's a it's a really important event like that that never quite makes sense to me and and also the fact that since the past ended up in that role for Europe like I think I think you can kind of track since the past's trajectory as a
player by his importance in Lavercub like you know there've been additions where he's been a central part of team Europe and this time he was used on on the opening day then used in an absolutely terrible doubles choice with with Casper Rude like neither of them are good returners
and they put them both together in the doubles and it was an absolute horror show Rude was talking about how embarrassed he felt like out there but that was Sitsapas' role he was he was used to make up a doubles team and used on the opening day and I just think it sort of kind of shows how
how far he's fallen he was really good on the opening day I think maybe they could have used him again but I don't know it feels like the sort of faith in him has has maybe dwindled a bit and now you've got new character like like Alkaraz and he's just so obviously the guy for Europe I did
think that was that was quite interesting he was the lowest ranked player for them number 12 which you know spoke to how strong their team was rankings was yeah dimitrov like obviously came in for Afar Nadal and like he just keeps getting injured at the moment dimitrov I like it really like
he got injured against Tabelo didn't he and I sort of really really hope that he can like actually get himself fit now rather than rather than being in this cycle that he seems to be in and then yeah just like Ben Shelton doubles was just fantastic absolutely loved watching him he's he's
become there go to doubles guy in the way that Jack Sok used to be and you know it just we're always talking about what to do about doubles and it just seems so obvious to me that like somehow we need to figure out a way to get more of the top players playing doubles that's a very difficult
thing to do but I do think that would be the answer in terms of making doubles a lot more important and interesting and Ben Shelton on a doubles court was just such a good time whoever he was partnered with it was it was really compelling viewing.
San Francisco next year isn't it with with Agassi and Noah will you be putting a hand up to go there Charlie we have to have the lure of watching tennis with Andre Agassi sort of guaranteed to to suck a you in that yeah that's a non-negotiable for me I mean I'm just seeing that yeah yeah and I'm dying to read it yeah.
It wasn't it wasn't an amazing experience I mean like he is yeah the way he sees the game I mean as well like the the goes to a tie break and I'm like Andre what's going to happen is like well the math says 7 4 Dimitrov and obviously it's 7 4 Dimitrov.
I mean he just and one thing that really struck me he he's just talking we're watching fairly I mean we're watching but we're chatting as well and he's like oh yeah you know when a guy serving about 70% like to be low it is and I was like do you know that I have you seen the numbers he's like
mmm that would be my sense I checked of 72 and like he's just you know just an amazing ability to read what's happening and take the temperature and he appropriately for someone from Las Vegas he uses a lot of sort of casino analogies and this thing of you know making yourself the house
and asking your opponent to be the gambler and I thought of no big jock of it she does that better than anyone like he is always the house and basically trust that yeah you might have a few big wins here but the house always wins you're gonna lose eventually so yeah just a totally different
perspective but San Francisco I think that will be Matt Futterman who gets to go for us being in the States this being Europe as me you asked for the hint but I will be watching with interest from from afar next year Matt can take his guitar and do something musical with Yannick Noah
just there you go yeah that's the that's the sequel to watching tennis with Agassid right there we rockin out with Yannick Noah um Charlie we'll let you go unless you have Hua Hin takes that your your desperate to uh to let loose on the listeners I will save those
they're too hot they're too hot well because apparently Hua Hin happens twice a year so uh yeah there they go yeah yeah save are those Charlie I've got Hua Hin takes um Charlie thank you ever so much uh been a pleasure to have you on even though your mum is absolutely taking me to the
cleaners in the predictions competition uh she'll be delighted by that in fact most people are but I expected your mum's name in amongst the many that are above me and the current standings so Charlie thank you really really interesting to get those things and uh do check out
Charlie's article as I'm gonna do as soon as we finish recording in the athletic my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing
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Ryan Reynolds here for I guess my hundredth mint commercial no no no no no no no no no no honestly when I started this I thought I only have to do like four of these I mean it's unlimited premium wireless for fifteen dollars a month how are there still people paying two or three times that much
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casualty insurance company and affiliates not available in all states or situations price is very based on how you buy we'll come on to hoi in in just a moment let's start in soul because there's a wta 500 event taking place there this week one by Beatrice Hadadjmaya who beat Daryk
has a keen from a certain to love down in the final 1664 6 1 her first title of the season it's been a sorry season really for Beatrice Hadadjmaya had a bit of a run in in New York didn't she so there have been some green shoots of regrowth for the Hadadjmaya season but this would be a
very welcome title for her after a final that Matt has declared the death of the wind predictor yes i mean it should have died a long time ago but this should be the final nail in the coffin because at 6 1 2 love the wind predictor was at 95% for kassakina which i'm sorry it's just a
total misunderstanding of the tennis scoring system and the players involved in that match because look kassakina had built a good lead and was playing great and was really protecting her serve particularly well so far she was serving about 90% first serves in so she wasn't having to hit
that many second serves that was a really important part of that first set that she got under her belt but we all know that kassakina is an extremely vulnerable server and like can be kind of broken at any possible moment so 6 1 2 love is really only you know it's just one break in the second set
it was never 95% it was absolutely ludicrous when it came up and then almost immediately Hadadjmaya did retrieve the break and from that point on in the match Hadadjmaya was absolutely awesome she started really going after her forehand in a way that she just hadn't been in that first set
I think it was a slightly weird tournament sole because there was a whole day that was just rained off so it meant that the quarter finals and semi finals had to be played on the same day which is just always difficult I think for players and maybe there was a bit of a hangover for Hadadjmaya
because she had she had two quite tough matches certainly one very tough match in on that day before the final when she beat both kudamatov as actually did Hadadjmaya whereas kassakina had had a had a much lighter day because emerald akarn who had retired in the first of those matches so
I think maybe kassakina came out fresher at the start of this final but once Hadadjmaya worked her way into it she was really as I say hitting those forehands well making some quite daring forays into the net in the final set which I don't really associate with her game but
but they paid off as she as she held from love 40 down having having built a three one lead and it was just very much you know a game of two halves kassakina was by far the better player to begin with but then Hadadjmaya took over and was awesome and there was a really great crowd in for the
final which hadn't been the case throughout the week but it was the case in the final and there was a really good atmosphere and yeah as you say Hadadjmaya is now kind of in the form that was like her best moments of 2023 you know she's she reached the Cleveland final the us open quarter
finals and now a title so she's one twelve of her last fourteen matches altogether and I just think this was quite an important bounce back from the us open where she had that really tough experience on on ash stadium in the quarter finals where she spoke about the nerves and the
anxiety that she was feeling and it was a really tough match for her against Mukva but to bounce back from that immediately and win a title I think is is so impressive and she just adds so much to the to the sport really when when she's a relevant factor because she you know I think we're always
talking about what sort of great energy a lot of the South American players sort of create in a stadium and and also she's a lefty which is always interesting to have at the top of the sport as well so I really thought this was going to be a big season for Hadadjmaya based on how
strongly she finished last year but it just hasn't been the case but you you sort of wonder now whether she can actually keep this momentum going into next year in a way that she just was unable to do last year but I but I really hope so because yeah as I said I just think she she adds
a lot to the sport tough scene well tough scene for the quarter finals generally because the the scheduled quarter final day in Seoul was a total washout and they they called it really early didn't they cancelled the whole day's play and David you woke up early tuned it well you know early for
me you woke up at a normal time for you tuned in in hopes of watching the critical stages of Radikanu against Kazakina and that is not what you found no foot injury there was Daria Kasekina being interviewed on court saying she wishes are all the best she just won the first set 6-1 and
Radikanu couldn't carry on I'd watched the day before Radikanu's performance or the all the round before at least couple of days earlier I think it was and yeah I mean she was really hoping that this was going to be a heavy workload for the next month or so in in Asia and she'd really
targeted that I think she'd also felt that upon the learnings of of pre-us open where she hadn't played as much and she kind of regretted that a bit this is this is where she could really just put the put the work in get some results get some ranking points start to get some momentum and
as she gets into next year now hopefully that's still the case I don't I don't know what the status of this foot is but it's the last thing we wanted to hear from a Emma Radikanu point of view because she's just been so blighted by injury and we're constantly hoping that she will develop the robustness and frankly just get the luck of being able to be a regular tennis player and this was another blow to that so it's a fingers crossed situation but it's not good is it?
No not at all we we wish I well um onto those Joihin hot takes then first career title for Rebecca SRAMKOVA she'd be Laura Seagman 6464 in the final a week that featured Seagman in the fourth longest WTA match in open era history she beat Wongjiu in four hours and nine minutes
unbelievable yeah before eventually losing out in that final to SRAMKOVA who's who's Instagram artworks or rather who's artworks which she has put on Instagram a Hannah dream I attention to you this week I think she might be really interesting Rebecca SRAMKOVA
I mean there's there's obviously some some darkness there um check out her Instagram for what I'm talking about she talks about painting as being her way of coping with what can be a very difficult and lonely life um on on the tennis tour and yeah that I I'm no art critic but there is
definitely some darkness uh in those paintings I would say um but a first career title and that's great I don't think I knew who she was a year ago and it feels like she is becoming more of a more of a presence at the top-ish table of tennis David yeah we we sort of came across a really
for the first time in a run earlier this year and I always remember it striking me because it was shortly after our interview with Christine Truman for tennis relived for friends of the tennis podcast you know the former French Open Champion and Wimbledon runner up who'd revealed or all
talked about in that and in her autobiography about how she was partially cited about how she basically only had the site in one eye and the and the and the kind of wondering about how she would have done without without that that issue and and SRAMKOVA has the same issue it would appear and and is is also overcoming it and he's a really good watch I mean she she's a player that for next year it's it's funny you know I was thinking about today I I'd almost like to at the start of the year
took identify a couple of players I really want to follow the progress of and then at the end of the year have a think back to how they did you know and and she's one of those players that I think for 20 25 I'm really going to be looking out for um I really thought at the start of this year I'd be
looking out for Dino Prismich and I actually went back and had a little look at his results earlier today and and they've been unspectacular let's say um but again I'm still fascinated well I thought there's 20 25 hole you did do that once David we we very much had a shooting star
segment and and and yeah Jill Teigman did not shoot however Donna Vekitch did so let's just balance out that shall we I do think I do think Jill Teigman actually killed the shooting star segment all right I think she's a reason for it to carry on um as we told you in last week show
the ATP headlines this week outside of the Lava Cup are so so soon to be out of date tennis news I'll round it up for you Dave bless him David tuned in to watch Maran chillich in a final on Sunday only to be reminded that it was actually Maran chillich in a in a quarter final
because the the events in Huangzhou and Chengdu started late and are finishing on Wednesday so we'll be wrapped up in next week's podcast we've got a first all Chinese tour level ATP semi-final in the open era between Junjijian and Bu Yongchua Ke Tei I am going to need to do some work on
that pronunciation honestly somebody I hadn't heard of before this week um that's in Huangzhou uh Maran chillich as as discussed it is also into the semi-finals in Huangzhou he will face Brandon Nakashima these matches will be taking place today uh Holger Runa lost his opening match
in Huangzhou what a uh career nether zone he is in right now um in straight sets to uh yes Utaka Uchi Yammer and the top seed in Chengdu in Huangzhou Zeti he is looking for a title there they've also had Chinese success there with Jerry Shang reaching the semi-final he's becoming a bit of a thing as well Jerry Shang is an even very young very talented very fast arm so we won't we won't dwell too much there because it is so soon to be out of date unless David recall the season 1
going again and I love it. And who knows whether this will actually happen because obviously you know Manchillic is still going this week and it just may not happen but he's been drawn to face Canis Chakuri in the first round of Tokyo. He threw back to their US Open final. What is it? Well, yeah, 10 years later. How was it only 10 years ago? That feels 20 years ago to me.
That there we are. Which is weird isn't it? Because usually things feel like they were yesterday and actually it turns out they were 10 years ago or is that really feels like a long time ago to me. The George's been made with the Davis Cup final eight. Italy will face Argentina. The winner of that face, the winner of the USA against Australia, bottom half of the draw is Germany against Canada with the winner to face the Netherlands against Spain. So there is the possibility of a
a Spain Italy final and an Alcaraz Sina final showdown. Yes, please. This week the WTA is in Beijing. That is a 1000 level event. It starts on Wednesday and runs for 10 days or 11 days. Rebecca knows she is also out of Wuhan. I mean, possible at this stage that we won't see Rebecca again this season. Don't know. But yeah, she's withdrawn from those two kind of at the same
time. Sean take is also out of Beijing citing personal matters. Which is a big one because it's a 1000 event and she's the defending champion and year end number one, her world number one position is seriously under threat. So he's sacrificing those 1000 points without defending them. That's a big decision from her. I've no idea what those personal matters are. I hope she's okay and we will
monitor that situation. Top half of the draw here is Savilenka Kraychika, Paulini, Vekic, Jung, Chinwen and Carolina Mukiver, bottom half, Oscar Penko, Gough, Emma Navarro, Jessica Bagoula, Palabadosa and Naomi Osaka and just on the subject of Coco Gough, not a big shock, but she has split with coach Brandt Gilbert. That was announced this week by both parties. And I'm not sure there is anybody in the tennis world that is remotely surprised about that David.
No, it's kind of what we predicted really even in the last couple of months that it didn't feel that good that the vibe between them anymore and they'd had obvious success. I mean who knows whether Coco Gough will ever have the success she's enjoyed over the last year.
I think there's there tends to be when someone wins a Grand Slam, the tends to just be an assumption that they're going to go and do that again several times and I still can't get out of my head Coco Gough, Ben Ashtair, many Grand Slam, she hoped to win one day and she said double figures
and I remember and that was in the Australian Open and that just seems so fanciful now, maybe she will, she's only young, she may make lots of improvements but she had that result with Brad Gilbert but he does tend to be okay the Andre Agassi relationship he had would be
the counter to this because that's very long lasting but he tends to be the short sharp, shock sort of coach who makes the very best of what you've got and gets the best out of it and hides your weaknesses, helps you win or glean the words of his book and and then they can go and maximize but it does seem to be quite short term sometimes certainly was with Andy Rodic and
and it has now been with Coco Gough. It's not a surprise to me I think it it had run its course and it really just will be fascinated to see what she does next because there are I think more than one direction she could go including a sort of arena sabotein castile biomechanist to redesign one or two strikes how realistic that is with the amount of time there isn't the calendar,
don't know but yeah we'll be fascinating. Interesting that she's not in the Billie Jean King Cup final squad for team USA, she and Emma Navarro the most notable emissions and we know she has been very committed to that competition so maybe that is trying to buy herself some some offseason time we'll see. The ATP this week is in Beijing that's a 500 level event it starts
on Thursday and it ends on the following Wednesday. Yannick Sinner, Alexander Zverev, Carlos Alkarez, Daniel Medvedev and André Rubelev all scheduled to play though it's a very strong field and there's also an ATP 500 level event in Tokyo this week that starts on Wednesday and finishes on Tuesday. Round ones there include Fritz against Fees, a pelcus Shelton as discussed Nishikori Chilich
Tobilo Runa, Tobilo probably the favourite there. On Aldi against Tommy Paul and Alexei Popperin against somebody who's now being put in our agenda as TbP ITW which of course is Thomas Mahatch. Draper Herkatch Tiafos, it's about Baratini Rude, all J aliasing they're all in the draw in Tokyo as well as we'll be back next week to talk about tennis tournaments that haven't yet finished. Well certainly on the men's side, on the women's side, no none of them will be finished.
Did they not think of the podcasters when they do these schedules? For goodness sake. Absolute nightmare for us, look we'll be back next week, we'll have you covered, don't worry. And that's it for this week. We have an episode mascot, that mascot is Pippin. I'll tell you what, this is good dog. Pippin is owned by Hannah Alexander. Pippin is a four-year-old spring-a-spaniel German wirehead pointer cross which is not a cross I think I've ever seen before.
It's a bloody beautiful cross. His best days are spent chasing balls on the beach, ideally squeaky ones. With his best friend Ador to Peggy, seven-year-old, seven-years-old is Peggy. That's extremely lovely. Hannah says he loves the tennis podcast and particularly tennis relived when he gets extra long walks and honestly he is beautiful. I know what my mom's going to say when she sees this picture of Pippin on the sea front. She's going to say she wants to paint him
because he, I mean he already looks like a painting doesn't he? He's stunning. What a very good boy. Thank you. Thank you Hannah and thank you Pippin. Hello to our mascots. I of course have the dearly departed Darwin. David has Francis and has Heider and Soma. The predictions are back this week so subscribe to the newsletter for our predictions and standings and to see exactly how badly Charlie's mom is kicking my ass in the in the predictions and various other people that don't
do tennis podcasting for a living. That's great. Hello to Billie Jean King and Elana Kloss, who of course sponsor Billie Jean. Hello to our top folks and executive producers Chris, Greg Jamie and Jeff Han hello to our shout outs this week will be introduced by Matt. We have Tammy Gibson in Florida. Hello Tammy. Hello Tammy. And Tammy has quite the tennis background from 1995 to 1998 worked for the USDA's player development office in Kibasgan. Wow. Wow. And was often
shipped to the US open to do random jobs worked in size after action. It's an augule year sat in the president's box and met lots of players. So what a time. Wow. Tammy. Cool. So 95 to 98 what players, what American players were being incubated in that time who might Tammy have helped develop who emerged in kind of you know 99 2000. Good question because this is post-Sampras and Agassi. When was Robbie Jean Fries? Robbie Jean Fries would have been banging there I think.
Yes Matt. Very very good. There's a couple of others I suppose Andy Rodic of course and Marty Fish would have been. Marty Fish and Michael Gamble. He would have been already going but actually maybe 95ish yes he was being developed from 95 onwards yes. Isn't John Michael Gamble
the exact same ages and erotic? No. Anyway. He's a little older. I always remember them playing doubles together in Delray Beach in about 2001 and I remember Jean Michael Gamble trying to make Black socks happen and and he actually he actually said that and and Andy Rodic was just so such a he was like an alchrist of his days. I'm just with energy and excitement and trying to hit his surface hard as he could and they won the doubles I think. You just never know where a shout out
was going to go. I was going to speculate about where the Tammy is short for tomorrow and I was going to go with tomorrow core patch. Oh very good. Because I can't think of any Tammy's so I I don't know if it's short for tomorrow doesn't have to be it's good either way but that is the best I can do for a tennis player name comparison. So thank you Tammy. We've also got Damon Levy in California. Hi Damon. Like our mate Dave Levy. It's actually slightly different spelling.
Well there are a few different. Is it L-E-V-Y Matt? Yes. Like Dan. Like D'Alley. Harold Levy the Israeli player who I seem to remember played against Andre Agassi at Wimbledon in 2002 and I know this because it was my first ever Wimbledon for BBC Radio 5 live and I remember interviewing Agassi afterwards and I knew Harold Levy a little bit and so there we are. See Harold I would say is a very non athletic name. Don't get many Harold's in sport do you?
There we go anyway. What do we know about this person who's first name I've forgotten because we've been talking about Harold's? I was right by the way. Straight sets win for Andre Agassi in the first round of Wimbledon. He then lost to Paradorn Shrishapan in the next round. There we are. Lots to take in in the last few moments. I thought of Harold Mayo the French tennis player but actually I don't know why I think
of Harold's because this isn't a Harold that was a little bit old. This isn't a Harold. Who is it? Damon Levy. And it also wasn't Harold. It was Harold H.O. R.E.L. Harold Levy. Why the hell are we talking about Harold? Don't know. Damon. Unfortunately I like to think of it as Damon Orban. The leading of Blur. Or Damon Hill, the racing driver. Well that's at least sporting. I think you've done well there. David. Well our Damon has said not aware of any tennis
Damon's. I've looked up Damon Gooch, career high ranking of 872's and not sure that counts. Well it counts better than anything we've got Damon so I appreciate that. But I hope you'll accept some Harold's in lieu of some Damon's. Or some not-harolds, some Harold's. Damon thank you. And finally we have Alison Cochley in Norwich. Kyle Listen. Hello Alison. And my brother went to university in Norwich, lovely city.
And Alison would like to give a shout out to Georgia Routledge. And Georgia is the first British female parastanding tennis player and has just become the first female parastanding world champion. She was born with cerebral palsy and has been playing tennis for 13 years. But until now has had no way to play competitively unless she used a wheelchair. But parastanding tennis is growing and Alison is trying to raise awareness for it.
And in the hope that one day it might even be included in the Paralympics. So yeah congrats to Georgia for becoming world champion. Alison that is awesome. And to think that I was just going to say Alison Van Oitbank. Also good. That's really- I actually fell down a parastanding tennis rabbit hole. You know when Instagram shows you a video and you watch one and then all of your for you videos are the same thing for a little while. Well that was the case
for me with parastanding tennis the other day and it was brilliant. So if you get the chance to check it out do do that and well done Georgia. And thank you Alison. That's fantastic. Thank you to all of our shout outs. If you'd like to get yourself a shout out or just become a friend of the tennis podcast and get access to all of the bonus content much of it featuring the excellent Charlie Echelshare. On Thursday of this week we have a live show exclusively for
friends of the tennis podcast 8pm on Thursday. So if you'd like to join us for that it'll also be available. There's a podcast for friends if you can't join us live then the link to become a friend is in our show notes and it also gives you access to the barge which is also where we're going to be floating our topic for this week's show and getting some inspiration and questions for the show on Thursday. So the link to become a friend is in our show notes as always as is the
link to subscribe to the newsletter which is where the predictions competition is. It's where you'll be able to see a lovely picture of Pippin. I'll also put one on Instagram as well and you get Matt's stat and all other all sorts of other fun as well and it's free and excellent. And as I say the link is in our show notes we'll be back next week. Thank you for listening and we'll speak to you soon. We all have dreams, dream home renovations, dream vacations, or sending our kids to their
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