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Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast, a tennis podcast that we were not expecting to record today and emergency tennis podcast. Why are we coming to you in the middle of a Thursday? I hear you ask, well, it is because today is the day that we had confirmation of the end of an era, 20 past 10 this morning. It landed in our inboxes, the news that one of tennis's greats is to retire at the end of this year. Yes, Rysha Gaske and his career shall be no more. I do. I do. But that is.
Poor old Rysha Gaske did announce his retirement overnight and in truly fitting Rysha Gaske fashion, he has been somewhat gizant by Rafael Nadal, who after 22 years on tour will finally call it quits at the end of this year at the Davis Cup finals in Malaga in front of home fans aiming to win a fifth Davis Cup title with Spain to add his four already. His two Olympic gold medals, his 92 career singles titles of which 22 are Grand Slam titles and incredible career an incredible era.
One that is going to draw to a sad close for Rafael Nadal and for everybody that has enjoyed the career of Rafael Nadal, which is almost all tennis fans, I think. David here, Matt is back David, whilst everybody else is in emotional despair and turmoil right now, you're thinking to podcast day.
Exactly. Yeah, we've we've got the live Q&A to come tonight for friends of the tennis podcast so you can join us on there and chat away and give us your memories of Rafael Nadal, which I'm very much looking forward to. But yeah, I mean, when this broke and actually on top of some other quite significant use, it just felt we've got to do this. And frankly, I wanted to know what you two had got to say and remember back a little bit about Rafael Nadal.
And it's funny that breaking the news about Rysha Gaske and obviously that is amusing. But they do have such parallel careers in terms of timing because it was the same year that I heard about them for the first time and that was 2002. Gaske was 15. Nadal was only I think a little bit older and that was the first time I ever heard their names. And Gaske was really the one who was getting more hype.
And that was on the front cover of tennis magazine at the age of nine. And yeah, he broke through and went around at the Monte Carlo tournament beating Frankus Calaria. I was at the match when he did that. And you know, it is one of those things about covering a sport. I think the way we as journalists get to cover several generations of player. And this is a pretty long generation. I mean, that's 22 years for both of those two. And yeah, and yet, God, I feel emotional today about it all.
This is actually a fascinating sort of answer to the question that often gets asked for players like Rysha Gaske, which is like, is it a good thing that you've shared your career with Rafael Nadal? Because there's absolutely no way we were doing an emergency podcast just for Rysha Gaske's retirement. But the fact it's happened on the same day means that Rysha Gaske is actually getting quite a lot of air time.
And sort of has sort of ended up being vicariously boosted because of the career of Rafael Nadal. It's quite interesting. To be honest, Matt, even though I did that intro, we have already talked about Rysha Gaske far more than I was expecting to. Oh, this podcast. It does feel like Rafael Nadal's 19th win in a row over Rysha Gaske, doesn't it? Like he's 18 and no in the career. And he's just put this one on the end and said, Rysha, today was my day to retire.
I mean, we're going to end up saying a lot of the same sort of poignant, overblown attempting to be poetic things, aren't we, about retirement and mortality and sporting mortality reflecting human mortality and all of that. And, you know, for me, Rafael Nadal's career spans pretty much my entire tennis watching life for you, Matt. It's pretty much a whole life. Right. I mean, discounting the years that you probably don't remember that well.
You know, we've all seen the photo of Matt in his three quarter length pirate shorts as a very tanned Mediterranean looking child. But if anybody hasn't remembered them, Catherine, do your thing on Instagram, right? I will. I will. Yeah, I mean, it's big. And, you know, I know we've done all this before this year with Andy Murray, but, you know, you've got Spanish blood, a particular connection to Nadal. This is, this is a huge thing.
No, you're absolutely right. I do not know tennis without Rafael Nadal. I became a tennis fan in in about 2005. And that was, you know, the year that Rafael Nadal won his first French Open title and he'd already been on the scene and beaten Rocha Federer by that point and was this charismatic, incredibly cool young player who certainly my grandma was a big fan of.
And that was how I got into the sport because my grandma was a tennis fan and in that photo where I'm donning my three quarter length trousers, I'm at Wimbledon for the first time. And it was my grandma who took me and we were there on the on the second Saturday. It was women's finals day. We only had tickets for court one.
And so there were some legends doubles that we were watching, but my main memory of that is being able to watch both Federer and Nadal practice ahead of their final in 2006. And, you know, I managed to squeeze to the front with my little disposable camera and take some truly awful photos of both Federer and Nadal.
But, you know, I really cherish those memories and that trip to Wimbledon and to think that here I am now and Rafael Nadal is still going today's announced his retirement, but we are going to get the Davis Cup finals is pretty incredible to think that he has spanned that whole time. And I think a lot of people have those kind of memories and experiences as David said with sporting careers lasting for so long and us kind of tracking them and tracking our own lives.
And I think Nadal in particular because of what a constant he was at Roland Garros, I think has that effect on people in a way even more so than perhaps some of the other greats that we've celebrated as they've retired. They've maybe gone in and out a little bit more as we have fun at Roland Garros was just for so long the most sure thing in sport and kind of in life as well. And to think that we won't get that anymore is very sad.
You mentioned David that you were quite emotional watching that video that dropped in our inboxes this morning to announce the news. I mean, it's partly because it's a really well made well edited video. The brief was tug at the heart strings and they hit that brief. I was very emotional too and that's an interesting one isn't it because this is not in the big scheme of things not a surprise at all. We have we have Roman Roy style pre grieved Raffa on the dial for a long time.
Haven't we and yet this still feels like a sort of shock certainly a surprise certainly a gut punch. Yeah, I think sometimes it depends on well certainly depends on how well those videos are made and that sort of thing and it depends maybe how your life is going how your day is going when you see something like that. I think sometimes you're more prepared than others. I think you trying to tell us you had a tough morning David.
I mean, I was only 20 past 10 what could have gone wrong. It's a good point. I wasn't expecting to fail emotional so maybe that maybe it was the quality of that video as much as anything. You may remember I wasn't that emotional at Wimbledon over Andy Murray this time. I don't know why I think maybe I was in work mode there. Maybe that was part of it. I think I come back to what you started with at the beginning of this show.
It was Matt who said about Andy Murray how you are grieving a part of your life that is over and you will never get back. That person being a constant during such a big chunky life. I mean, it is it's it's most of Matt's life. It's a good bit of yours. It's a good it's my professional career pretty much certainly since I left the ATP.
So that's big. I mean, I think you know, the last year and a half I I've grieved people in my own family passing away and I just I just feel like you you do look at things a little bit differently when when you get older. I think sometimes and and so that's probably what what contributes to it, but he he in any case he just gave of his all at all times, didn't he? And that resonates, I think when when no matter how hard you try.
You have to reach the end point and even the great will of Raffa and the Dow can't defeat retirement and can't play forever. And I don't think there could be a more. Extreme example of that than with him because if he if he can't fight it off forever than nobody can and of course nobody can, but but he would at times make you feel like nothing will stop this guy ever.
Yes, there were players that beat him and got the better better of him on a tennis court, but goodness me in terms of just force of character. I I listened to our show from 2019 called the Raffa on the Dow story, which is quite funny really when you think about it. You know, we thought he was on his last legs five and a half years ago and we were doing his kind of crowning podcast back then. And we thought we all thought he would have one more French open in him is what we all said.
But nothing else he wouldn't manage to win another grand slam and in fact he won five more of which two of them were not at the French open which is just just the sounding when you think of it and then you know subsequently even know that joke of a she was on 15 at the time is kind of not to another 10 in that period you know it's just it's amazing to think of these things but.
I he does move me he always has and and I think it's because of of the way people can connect with this man who never has an off moment in a tennis match finally having to accept that it's time.
We're not just saying goodbye to Raffa on the dial was saying goodbye to the people that we were when we watched Raffa on the dial to to quote Matt Roberts on on Andy Murray earlier this summer that the good news is that the person I was watching Raffa on the dial was very closely aligned to the person I was while watching Andy Murray so that's that's another bit of pre grieving done.
For the for the Nidal career but I do expect to be a bit of a mess at the Davis Cup finals in Balagomat that is going to be a lot. So much I'm very excited about the prospect of that and what a moment it will be have some have some worries I'm a bit worried about Carlos Alcras like that's going to be a lot for him to.
Because he's he's going to be needing to win tennis matches that week and I think it's going to be a huge emotional heft look he might absolutely rise to it and play this unstoppable level but equally we've seen him today on on on the day that the news has come out and it's the first time he's he's lost since the US open he's he's been beaten admittedly by the best player in the world but it wasn't Carlos Alcras is best performance and it wouldn't totally surprised me if.
It was a bit sort of flustered by that and I'm also a slightly worried about the boutique van der Zanskorp of it all given that David Ferrer has mentioned that he's hoping Raffa Nadal will be ready to play singles against Burtic in that quarter final Nadal spain against the Netherlands and I don't know I've just seen Burtic this year with his very low heart rate deal with that big occasion. And sort of squash it and don't really want to see that again.
If Alcras can win his singles then we can allow for Burtic to have his slow heart rate moment and then and then we're on with Nadal Caras. And Burtic can't ruin anything then it will be you know Wesley Coolhoff the party keeper.
But I think it does feel quite fitting that it would be Davis Car. I love it. Like I think I think there's there's a few interesting things going on here there's the fact that so many of these greats are retiring at team events you know Rocha Federer, Lavercutte, Andy Murray the Olympics doubles and now Raffa Nadal choosing Davis Car.
Kind of something maybe to be said for that with you know in amongst this incredible grind the individual grind of the tennis tour at these at these moments of deep emotion these players are drawn to team events to maybe help help get them through it a bit.
And also of course and Catherine and David you'll be able to talk about this more than me because it isn't something I remember something I've seen and have looked back on but of course Davis Car in 2004 was was such a Raffa Nadal arriving moment you know people knew about him people as I said he'd already beaten Federer at that stage he was he was clearly incredibly talented on clay but the way took over that that final and beat Andy Roddick and Roddick who beat him in the US open just just a few months ago.
I think for people watching was a big wow who is this guy I want to follow him and now to sort of trace that arc all the way to the end of his career is going to be retiring at Davis Car. It does feel quite sort of fitting in that respect. And that was in Spain wasn't it David this is obviously going to going to be in Spain. It's perfect that was the moment that I thought this guy is going to win 14 running garals in a wrap.
I mean I okay there's no way for us to fact check that that obviously that's that's a ridiculous exaggeration but it is the moment that I thought this guy could win the French open because I he'd already beaten Federer in Miami but it just didn't it felt isolated at the time and and
I didn't think Federer was really on that day so I didn't paint that much attention but when when they entrusted this kid this teenager with the Davis Cup final in the most incredible stadium in in Spain up against Andy Roddick
it was one or two in the world at the time I mean it was it was him and Federer right at the top of the rankings at that point and Roddick had absolutely thrashed Nadal at the US Open and that's why probably another reason why I wasn't paying that much attention to that Miami win over Federer because when he played
Roddick on a hard core to the US Open it's very easy to remember only the things you predict right and and crow about them but I'm pretty sure I would have been saying now everybody listen up watch this right because this kid wrap on the dial and what you know look at him he's bulging my biceps he's he's gonna cause Roddick some some trouble here and I think the score was something like six sounds like something you would say
yes so if I don't have a podcast I don't mean saying it right and I think that the score was something like six three six four six love or worse it was just an absolute destruction Roddick came out and I'm being hitting a 140 straight at the body of of Nadal and the whole thing was confrontational pretty much from from Roddick in the way that he went about his business and Nadal looked such a clay quarter on a hard court at the time
that I just thought that that Miami match might have been a one off and then for him to take him down in four sets you know it's best to five in that Davis Cup at that point and I just thought this kid looks pretty unstoppable in this match and I don't I don't actually know who in the world would be beating him that day so that was the moment I definitely thought right we've got something there and I think that 2004 season the fact that Nadal was injured and couldn't play Roland Garros
all sort of kind of helped build his legend because then he gets to Roland Garros for the first time in 2005 and and he's ready to win it and then of course he went on that streak of of never having lost there until
certainly beat him but yeah and I actually think just going back to the Davis Cup one of my most kind of maybe underrated in the dial moments is actually the 2019 Davis Cup finals which was the first year of the new format there was an awful lot of you know unrest really about what this new
format would be like and a lot of criticism of it but Rafa Nadal power would spain to that title in Madrid he was you know by that point it was 33 it was the end of the season the indoor swing on a hard court had never been his best time of
year and here he was playing and winning two matches a day he was playing singles and doubles that week and I just remember how remember watching doubles matches that before players on the court and my eyes would only be drawn to Rafa Nadal he just carried Spain and honestly that whole tournament I think we we can maybe look
back on that first year of the new Davis Cup and think yeah that was that was pretty exciting but it was exciting because of Rafa Nadal and and the energy he brought and yeah I think that's kind of a moment that maybe doesn't get talked about that much but that was an incredible achievement from from the Darwin you know at that point in his career I feel like this is this is the right amount of lead up time to announce a retirement personally and I don't know whether it's a
substantial that he's announced it now I don't know whether he's just realized in in training posted that training photo the other day he saw the gas guy and he just answered to be here I don't know whether he watched Alcarazs sinner at the weekend and thought yes bit bit rich for my 37 year old blood these days I don't know when he decided to go exactly or maybe he
decided weeks ago and this was decided as the right moment to announce it but I do I think the timing is is good Rishar Gaske announcing that Roland Garros next year is going to be the end is like I think that's a bit indulgent especially his Paris is round the corner I he didn't win Roland Garros Rishar's you know what I mean so we're going to have an eight month build up to Rishar Gaske's last
and P.S. I guess you're assuming you're getting a wild card well of course he's French he is French so I'm sure you will but like I do I I honestly think part of it is that the Roland Garros retirement gifts are so nice the cross section of the clay I think that's why people
want to have their retirement ceremony at Roland Garros but there's got to be a chance that the dog goes back to Roland Garros next year for a serenity and gzums gaska again I mean I'd sort of love it I mean they're going to want to do a ceremony for him aren't they I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something it's currently only Madrid you've got to do a ceremony and their flags didn't unfold properly so maybe they'll want to have another go at it
yeah I guess there will there will be one in Malaga in just just a couple of months time and we'll be there and we'll be telling you all about it and I sort of can't wait and I'm also dreading it I'm I'm guarding my lines put it that way it's big news to process I think there's a lot of a lot of people out there that would be feeling a lot of feelings and I think I honestly think it's okay and normal if you are feeling a version of grief
you know it's it's it's a lot sport evokes a lot of emotions and it's why we it's why we love it but yeah it can be it can be a lot to cope with so we're feeling all the same things you are and it's not the only news that we've had dropped today or in the last few days we're going to leave the tennis results for our scheduled show on Monday but we are going to cover a number of other news items in this show so bear with us and we'll be back in part two
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to part two of this emergency tennis podcast where we're going to turn our attention notice some news that dropped yesterday from Wimbledon two bits of news actually one that the singles finals on the second Saturday
and Sunday will start at 4 p.m. instead of 2 p.m. with the doubles final to come first that'll be a 4 p.m. start time for the two singles finals on the Saturday and Sunday the other bit of news they announced is that electronic line calling will replace manual human line judges from next year
and move David that Wimbledon said they would never make pretty unequivocally a few years this is this is a this is a real shock for me this one yeah at the very least they were uninfuseous yesterday I thought when when the idea was first mooted and it was one of a number at the time including court side coaching and things like that which you know that certainly whenever you would hear Tim Hemman who's a committee member talk he wasn't keen on a lot of these things
and they would often quote the importance of the pathway for chair and pies to be able to become line judges first and that that would be removed and also just the the sheer tradition and the the roles that those human beings get to fulfill and you know what a wonderful opportunity we've heard from a lot of line judges who who've had that opportunity in the past day or so talking about how sad they are that
that they and people like them just won't be doing that anymore at Wimbledon it used to be such a thrill I think so I guess I guess in one way I could be surprised by it but just here in the way they've been speaking in the last year or two in the way things have gone generally the removal of middle Sunday the introduction of the shop clock lots of things like that have have made me think actually they
want to take the time and have a look and see how it works before committing but actually they are quite prepared to move and then they moved their own date a week later in the calendar 10 years ago to create a bit of extra room in the grass court season and I guess my response is mixed really because I'm simultaneously sad about it
and you know even talking to my kids I think I've said before they they love the Hawkeye challenges they like all that that that moment of is it in or is it out and and that kind of thing and I think some people do and and it's kind of nice having them out there at the line judges it's it makes it more human obviously but at the same time why would you not be accurate if you can be
accurate and if there is trust in a system and you don't have to go through this whole pilava of human being sees ball player doesn't believe it challenges to a screen and an electronic eye when the eye can do the job in the first place and it's instantaneous and you know it's just sensible I think really and yeah a bit sad but I think the right decision yeah I I feel kind of sad on a personal level for those those line judges who aren't going to have that job which I'm sure most of them
absolutely love and take a real pride in any more but on a sort of sporting level I don't really feel very misty eyed about losing the human element of of line judging like in when I see a tournament with line judges now it feels incredibly anachronistic and silly really I do think this is inevitable in in a good way if you can be accurate why why wouldn't you and I don't I don't miss the human element on the court it honestly just looks like kind of clutter to me now
human clutter in the in the nicest possible way so while I do really feel for those people on an individual level sort of conceptually I don't feel sentimental about line judging going quite honestly I do think that the point about the pathway to towards unpired them there is something in that and I and I hope that's being considered as part of this move towards technology the preservation of those those pathways
for sure Matt what do you think? Yeah no one has really explained to me what the pathway is going to be and I do wonder whether the sort of unspoken thing here is that well eventually we won't need umpires I do wonder whether we're going that way I think I would feel much more strongly about needing to keep umpires we're going to have a big section at the end of this podcast
where the umpires have been front and center in Shanghai this week but I think it's important that there is some human element there and that the umpires are there but I don't feel that way about line judges I agree with you I think it feels like a bigger deal that they're going at Wimbledon because of the fact that as you said they've maintained these traditions for so long and I really did think that they would continue with line judges
I also think they really did I don't know I take your point about sort of human clutter but I do think that they sort of in a way decorated the courts at Wimbledon because they did always look so nice and smart
and I think you're sort of losing something there but absolutely not enough because I completely agree with you if the technology is there and it's going to be available even in in qualifying isn't it at all the Roampton courts if the if if the technology is there I do think you should use it
I actually feel more strongly about the about the start times of the of the finals changing the line calling news didn't really register that many feelings for me but I I felt more strongly about the time of the single final moving it reminds me of a time when GPS technology way ways I think it was was just becoming pretty ubiquitous and I got in a I think it was raining and I got in a London black cab
and the guy refused to use ways he refused to use Google maps all ways he said I've done done the knowledge which is the London the London old school test that taxi drivers had to pass but if it effectively memorising the road the intricate road system of London before they were qualified to be a black cab driver
and absolutely incredible thing an incredible part of London history but a total inachronism in in the modern world and this guy refused to put refused to use GPS and learn behold we hit a we hit us some side street he said no no I know the larger is better than any GPS and we hit some side street where there had been a burst water main and road works had popped up that day did the freaking knowledge about it no about it no it
no it didn't but ways would have done and I and I felt sorry for him that you know technology was rendering one of his biggest skills entirely redundant you know that is a sad thing I feel sorry for on a human level but also ruined my day
and yet and as Matt said there have been quite a few unpiring related controversies in China over the past few days and we'll be covering those shortly in part three just before that touching upon the change to the order of play on singles well on on the finals days at Wimbledon Matt it is it's a blow to your open the roofs campaign isn't it it's an undeniable blow it is yes because you know you you only sort of have to do a little bit of maths to think that well a men single final
starting at four o'clock we all know that's actually four fifteen given given the amount of fat that will go on beforehand it's very possible that they'd be starting the fifth set after about four hours that kind of thing that is not beyond the
realm of possibility whatsoever and suddenly when a situation where you're starting the fifth set and it's going to be getting dark during that fifth set so the solution would be close the roof and I don't know I haven't liked this trend generally at Wimbledon of starting matches later and and having that final match the day on center
courts may be played fully under the roof or start not under the roof and close under the roof so they get that tennis in that sort of nine to eleven pm slot look the whole line about sort of it's an outdoor tournament can kind of sound a bit ridiculous maybe when when people keep pushing that but it isn't it is important to me that the conditions
of a match don't change unless for sort of circumstances that you can't control like I totally understand that if it rains it makes sense to close the roof and finish the match rather than just wait around for it to stop raining that makes total sense to me what doesn't make sense to me is starting a match at a time
where you know there's a considerable risk of it having to change conditions and go indoors and I think it's highly likely that we're going to get some men's finals where that is the case with a four o'clock start rather than a two o'clock start I don't think the match would have to be that
extraordinary for that to happen and and personally I just think that's a little bit of a shame I I can see why they might want it in that in that time slot for an American audience you know particularly on the on the west coast it really does mean that kind of all of the
finals are going to be at a very good viewing time for the for the west coast and I know that you know women obviously have a big broadcast deal with with the SPN that's very important to them I understand that and the press release talked about wanting to get maximum number of eyeballs on on these matches I do get it but I think it's I just think it's a little bit dangerous from that idea of the conditions of the match
having to change midway through and I just I just don't like that personally. I don't feel the same I I'm actually quite pleased with this change for two reasons one is because I think doubles will benefit I think those doubles finals going before the singles finals a little bit like we saw at the at the
80 p finals in the O2 and in cheer in I think people like will want to come in early and they will want to watch those matches and they will be really into them and they'll be buzzing because they've still got the singles finals to come I think that that will be a cool atmosphere and I actually don't think there will be that many that are interrupted through bad light really because if you start at four I mean let's hope they do start at four and not have too much
faffin end up starting at four thirty but if they do start at four you I mean you are in the longest sort of time slot of the year in terms of daylight I think you'd have to be going five hours really to to to end up closing the roof personally so I and I quite lightly idea as well I think it be really dramatic what do you think Catherine?
I'm struggling to have an opinion I don't care that much like if they were announcing that they were going to have the women's final on Sunday and the men's on Saturday or doing that in alternate years I'd be I'd be very animated at that I'm pleased that you
too have an opinion because that is our trade here on the tennis podcast I feel quite unmoved I just think there are yeah like there are bigger scheduling issues I would have said that needed addressing rather than the start time of the finals I think today it's points I would say tennis matches are getting longer we know that like if if that trend continues then we're definitely going to be in in danger of of hitting that darkness time and I'm not going to learn
judge itself maybe a tad I think it will I think it I'd love to know actually what difference it has met in terms of time I mean I don't know the answer to that. Matt are you more obsessed about this than the day of the time and we live with the wrong item.
I just don't really care and you're you're you're as worked up as I've seen you I'm not totally convinced it is good news for doubles either I think that the finals crowd that you get in I'm not sure will be all that interested in in the doubles starting three hours before the singles now they've got the full singles to come and I think one of the one of the nice things about the about the doubles finals being after singles is you often get
resales and proper fans who are on site for the singles final will you know watching on the screen or whatever will pick up those resales and create like a proper tennis fan atmosphere inside those stadiums rather than people who are fortunate to have a ticket for a
win-win-win final I just think I'm just not convinced that it is a big win for doubles and I think it puts the singles finals under a little bit of threat of finishing under darkness as I've said so yeah maybe I am really worked up about this. I would suggest that you are.
Okay well you know we'll see we'll come back to this Wimbledon next year you can you can put that in your eye Cal Matt rant Saturday and Sunday Wimbledon finals days next year Matt Roberts rant speaking to you are going to talk about on-py related events in China just before that I wanted to touch upon a story that Simon Briggs broke in the telegraph yesterday about a potential commercial merger or a plan
between the ATP and the WTA has to be voted on by both boards so this is by no means a done deal but Steve Simon Chief Executive of the WTA and Andre Galdenzi and the same position at the ATP are going to be presenting this to the boards as something they they want to go through.
It is reported that there would be a 80 20 split in assets 80% 80% 20% WTA as a starting point which obviously optically looks extremely bad but quote reflex commercial reality in 2022 the account of the fileings for the ATP show relative incomes of 90 million for the WTA versus 238 million for the ATP.
The asset split is quote just a starting point reflecting existing assets and projected growth quote if the merger achieves its aim then a something being called a synergy windfall would be split evenly.
It explains it thus in his article he says to take an example if the tours joint income from a particular area of sponsorship had been forecast to reach £100,000 but the appeal of a mixed gender package had helped them bring in £110,000 instead then the synergy income of £10,000 a difference between the two the uplift if you like would be split into £5,000 for each party.
Now that makes it sound very clean and binary and scientific but the judgement of or the estimation of what someone would have been prepared to pay for a single tour package versus what they're prepared to pay for a mixed gender package I suspect that is far less scientific than is being presented in that equation. Another area of this that makes me really anxious is the 80 20 split reflecting projected growth.
Now I do understand the quote commercial reality of what their existing assets are worth relative to one another but surely the WTA having 20% versus 80% in terms of present assets versus the 80%
shows far greater room for projected growth than the 80% I don't quite understand that point it's like something you go to when you're looking for a house and you want to buy a do or upper because you because you can add value to it and potentially sell it on and make a profit having having done it up but actually the fact that it's a do or upper and there is the potential to add value is priced into the
cost of buying it to start with thus sort of wiping out the potential to make a profit at all I just it all makes me really while I am principle support a merger a lot of the language of this makes me really anxious David really really anxious what do you think?
I can understand why because and I think the word merger is problematic here because this isn't really a merger it's it's a deal it's a deal that they're talking about doing to sort of commercially sell together and look I'm not blaming Simon I mean it it's just that that word feels like it should be an equal thing and certainly it it's it's selling women short in terms of in terms of its description and its presentation and and and they've got to be very careful I think the
tours how this is presented and what they go into because it does bother me I mean I think it is just yes the detail may tell you something different if you really drill down into it and see the potential etc I am just worried about you know what do I tell my daughter what does this come across as like and and I think those sort of things matter yeah well look it'll be voted on by the boards I think at the end of the year it's absolutely by no means a done done deal but it's going to be very
very interesting so we'll we'll follow the story closely and we'll be back in part three with some more stories and some agro and some pretty unpleasant un-pire related stuff to discuss from China welcome back to part three of this emergency tennis podcast where I can't believe we ever thought we were going to be able to fit all of this into a weekly podcast on Monday even even without the dolls retirement or every
time and announcement and there's a lot of stuff to get through here so yeah tennis results were very aware that Colossal as lost to the best player in the world moments ago that Sabileanka looked like she was going to lose to Julia Putin saver results all of it it's going to be covered in in Monday show and any other surprise
retirement that that pop up along the way but for now we want to touch upon some some actually pretty big incidents that have occurred in Shanghai over the last few days some incidents that point to a trend that we've we've spoken to before but a trend that for me feels like it's reaching a very very pointy head with these events we've had a pretty unpleasant exchange between Stefano
Sittapas and on fire Fergus Murphy during Sittapas's match his defeat to Daniel Merverev yesterday during which Sittapas is questioning Fergus Murphy's credentials to be in a position to have authority over the match questioning whether he is ever played tennis demanding the supervisor not not really listening to Fergus Murphy's explanations of of why he's he's made the calls that he's made just kind of having a tantrum and demanding that the supervisor come onto court
we've had Francis Tiafo shout fuck you with apologies to all of our various parents for that but there's there's no way around this story without using the language just shouting fuck you repeatedly to umpire Jimmy Pinagoti who's an apologies if I'm getting that pronouncing that name wrong yeah he's not he's not one of the most known umpires on tour
but he received a tirade from Francis Tiafo shortly after Tiafo shook hands with with Roman Cifulin after after his loss to to Cifulin the umpire had made the call that Francis Tiafo should receive a time violation because his service motion hadn't started within the within the shot clock countdown
now Francis Tiafo to try and game that system had just tossed the ball up in the air he saw that the the shot clock was counting down he tossed the ball up in the air to get himself an extra few seconds but the umpire was wise to that and and called the time violation on him because it was clearly not a toss with any intention to serve it was it was a toss to say
oh look I'm starting my motion therefore you can't you can't call the time violation on me absolutely the right call as far as I'm concerned and frankly regardless of whether it was the right call nothing justifies anything close to
the language and the expression of the language from from Tiafo towards the umpire afterwards it was really unpleasant it was followed up hours later by an Instagram apology from Tiafo pretty profuse one whether it was written by him himself I don't know he he didn't name the umpire which I thought was a shame I certainly think he he could have made that apology more personal
I would like to think and hope that he had sought him out behind the scenes to to apologize I really hope so we don't know we've also had Alexander's verve blaming his grand slam final defeats on on on pires every single grand slam final I've lost is because of you guys is the narrative in Alexander's
verve's head this as part of a slightly less aggressive but still a tirade in the direction of Muhammad Learny again after a totally legitimate double bounds call from Learny even I could see this was a double bounce on the replay and again even if it had been the wrong call
umpires make wrong calls and that does not justify them being treated with such disrespect and abuse from players now none of these incidents fell under the category of amusing and grow to me none of it even close for me this is part of an incredibly worrying trend in tennis particularly men's tennis more than a trend a massive problem
a massive massive problem that tennis and the ATP needs to get a handle on I think this is I think this is appalling quite frankly and worsening and of course it's no surprise that it's worsening the penalties the punishments for this behavior are toothless and meaningless he had Alexander's verve a few years ago in a Capulco physically threatening as bad a moment of umpire abuse as I've ever seen physically threatening the umpire and he didn't receive any meaningful punishment for that at all
that sets a tone and that tone is being answered by the rest of tennis now the the punishments are not consistent and they are not sufficient and this is a horrible look for tennis it's it's deeply unpleasant for umpires this culture of questioning their credentials to be in that position
the standard to which they've played the game that that's neither here nor there it's it speaks to incredible arrogance and entitlement and just a grotesque look for men's tennis that I think the ATP should be taking very seriously indeed what do you think Matt I couldn't agree more and I also think the ATP have put the umpires in a very difficult position something else that came up during Shanghai was was never a joke of it's during his his win over
the Sifulin talking to the umpire about how the rule has changed for the shot clock it it it happened in June not a big thing was made of it but it it's had quite a big effect because what used to happen was that the shot clock would would start after the umpire had announced and inputted the score
what happens now is that I it automatically starts three seconds after the point ends the umpire no longer has control on on when to start the shot clock and I bring that up because that was you know the reason why sits past got angry it was the reason why Tf got angry it was all to do with the shot clock
but tennis matches and games have kind of rhythms and heart beats that generally umpires were very good at recognizing okay it would it it would happen occasionally that a player would think that the umpire had started a pop the shot clock too soon after a really long rally
but also a lot of the times the umpires were giving players grace and they were taking into account the physical nature of a rally and they were starting the shot clock at kind of sensible times and that control has been taken out of the umpires hands and yet they're still expected to enforce the shot clock and the players are still getting angry at them when they do enforce the shot clock and they're they're in the in between a rock and a half place there the umpires because they've got no control over the shot clock but they're being shouted at the back of the shot clock
they're being shouted at and abused by the players kind of as though they do have control over it and thought Fogus Murphy handled the situation with sits-upass incredibly well he he he displayed the perfect amounts of sass saying that it might help if you listen and maybe if you watch more matches just a little little sort of gentle lines like that to kind of make a make a point of how ridiculous sits-upass was being
but that is exactly why I say I do think we need umpires you know when I said earlier I'm you know I feel sorry for the individual line judges that can no longer do that at Wimbledon but I think we've got a perfectly good replacement there in electronic line calling it's better
but I don't think you can eliminate that human feeling that umpires can give you when trying to start the shot clock and that kind of thing this has not worked this this three second rule like I get why the players are frustrated when they've been you know straining away for three hours and the first time maybe they they go over the limit they get they get called and it seems really unfair and harsh I get that but I think
what the ATP have done have taken some of that human control away from the umpires who generally were very very good at getting that those sorts of calls right and it was childish behavior from sits-upass to sit down and and refuse to play it was absolutely horrible to watch the
F.O. shout at the umpire like that it was in the laughable suggestion from Sverve that he's lost his grand sam finals because of the umpires like they weren't hitting the 63 mile an hour second serve and choking four hands into the into the net in that fifth set like that was all used very every we all saw that
so as you say we're in the situation where punishment has not been harsh enough and players are getting away with it and think they can get away with it and they're and they're treating these umpires who were trying to do their jobs and to the most of the time doing it doing it extremely well and as you say even if they weren't they don't they don't they don't deserve that that kind of language thrown in their direction and I really do
feel for the umpires in in in this scenario I think they've been they've been thrown under the bus really and not backed up with with strong punishments for the players telling inside into the Sverve psyche though isn't it pathological inability to kind of take responsibility for those for those losses fascinating David
yeah well I think I mean I'm sick of scenes very I've tried to pull the wall over umpires eyes by circling marks that are wrong and stuff like that and I think that this was another example of that when he when he gets on the edge like that and it's about to go wrong for him you just he just throws his toys out and get some pleasant I was really shocked at TF as behavior I mean I know the lot seasons long everybody's tied and I'm going to get a little bit more
everybody's tied and jet lagged but there's no excuse for that I mean it's just that was just disgusting and and actually I think I'd go back to to how curious used to get let off when he when his worst excesses with umpires were heard you know five years ago when when he sort of tanked that match and and and the way I remember him calling Fergus Murphy an awful name during a match I think in Cincinnati a few years ago
and I just remember thinking I'm just over you now that was the turning point for me and and I think that too often the tours confuse the importance of of of content opportunities which are legitimate on one level with a need to not really properly sanction players and and I think that that's sort of certainly happened with Kiri also and I think it's carried on.
Yeah look I know everyone's afraid we're always talking about how the tennis season is too long these these players are totally burnt out and frazzled and I understand that but I don't consider that to be that's an explanation it's not an excuse for me
for me that the player side or the the tours side I just I just really want the issue to be treated with the seriousness that I think it I think it warrants and just while we're on the subject of kind of Newsy staff away from the court had a had a couple of really unpleasant incidents
terms of events in the last week in in Wuhan the return of the WTA tour to Wuhan or Wuhan Bullden depending on on what you want to call it and we had a power a bit docer posting something on Instagram posting a photo on Instagram that very much look like she was making a racist gesture
now I'm sure a gesture that she didn't realize is racist I'm sure it was ignorance but I mean all racism is all racism is is ignorance right it was a really a really stupid stupid stupid thing to post she initially kind of tried to defend it when it when it got flagged up by by a few people by saying no no no you're you're misunderstanding and then eventually when the criticism started to mount she said I'm so so sorry I didn't I didn't realize
and she kind of owned it she did subsequently withdraw from from Wuhan though and we've also had Mike the Lynette who posted a joke on her Instagram about Wuhan and and covid and we had a very very awkward situation following her her match couple of days ago which she won as she was booed by the the Chinese crowd in Wuhan and she she tried to take the microphone I will dress you to the interviewer to she started to say I'd like to
sort of apologize and explain myself to the crowd and the microphone was was very deliberately taken from her and she was denied the chance to do that and told please just answer the question about the match and it was all really unpleasant and again a really misjudged post from from Mac Dylanette but misjudged posts carry serious consequences in China it could be totally coincidental that Badosa has withdrawn from Wuhan personally I would be surprised
the model is usually had deed a few years ago posted something posted something quite similar and she was banned from going to China for a fashion show that she was supposed to be a part of you know they they take this stuff really seriously and it's it's it's been a tough few days to watch that stuff kind of unfolding David
yeah has it has and hopefully they they reflect on that a bit but those two particular players I mean I think I got to be honest I still find watching tennis in China generally quite quite difficult thing because of the questions that remain over punchway and I don't think that's that's going to change any time so I mean it's it's mixed feelings and loving some of the tennis loving seeing crowds back and some of the atmosphere that has been created
but yeah the the sport can't exist just as a sport where we just watch forehands and backends being hit and players just concentrate on hitting those balls their behavior including on social media matters and they need to know that yeah yeah absolutely okay just to finish or to try and finish on a slightly night lighter note Matt has a nugget of gold from the Wimbledon Library that he unearthed for his yesterday pertaining to an on court incident in Shanghai this week over to you Matt
yes I feel like we should mention this just so you know we don't get a lot of people saying yeah but sometimes umpires do make mistakes yes sometimes umpires do make mistakes and there was one where Carlos Bernadez got the score wrong in the stand with Rinka Flavio Caboli match
because nobody noticed it well Rinka didn't Caboli didn't the coaches didn't absolutely no fuss was made at all but what happened was Rinka had a serve that was unreturned so it should have been 15 love but literally as that happened Caboli asked umpire Carlos Bernadez for some electrolytes and I think Bernadez just got distracted by that didn't input the score and then Caboli won the next point and Bernadez called the score as love 30 rather than 15 all
so that was what happened I think it was actually Colin Fleming on on commentary who felt that something was a bit wrong and kind of noticed it and it got some pickup and short Carlos Bernadez made a mistake there he was distracted but he made a mistake
I'm in the Wimwood & Library yesterday was researching for our Beaters Geralitis tennis relived episode and the Wimwood & Historian Robert McNeckle the great Robert McNeckle was talking about this and he said it reminded me of something which happened in 1889 which I said said no whatever
but that is the standard you have to be at if you are the Wimwood & Historian and Robert told me about the 1889 Wimwood & All Cammers final so this was before the challenge round so it was the All Cammers final and it was William Renshaw six time Wimwood & Champion against Harry Barlow
and Harry Barlow had matched point in the fourth set and by all accounts one that point so would have gone through to the challenge round however the umpire had run out of paper to keep track of the score on and was distracted and was asking for a new bit of paper didn't see the point and ordered for it to be replayed and William Renshaw won that point won the fourth set came back to win the fifth set went through to the challenge round beat his brother earnest in the challenge round
and won his seventh Wimwood & Title which no man would get to until Pete Sampress many many years later but I just thought it was it was brilliant bit of Wimwood & Historianing from Robert to see an incident in Shanghai in 2024 and recall something similar happening at Wimwood & in 1889
just so for me it's the 90s Matt and for for Robert it's the 19th century correct thank you Matt and thank you Robert for allowing us to finish this this very heavy show on a on a slightly lighter note much appreciated
um folks that is our first podcast of the day done hope you're feeling ready and rearing to go for the second one in four and a half hours time we've got a friends Q&A show coming up this evening so if you're a friend of the pod and you're listening to this prior to 8pm UK time on Thursday
we'll see you very soon live on YouTube and if not it'll be available as a podcast and if you'd like to become a friend of the pod and get access to that and our whole back catalog of bonus pods plus everything that we've got to come including that relived episode on Vita's Gerolitis
then the link to become a friend as always is in our show notes hope you're feeling of feelings about Raffa and Adal and and hanging in there we're we're feeling the same it's been a good 22 years though hasn't it maybe we can have one last
or our in Malagir who knows we have a mascot for today Bailey Bailey wouldn't have been expecting to get the call up today but here we are Bailey Bailey is a 10 year old beagle put forward by Tracy now I'm going to say looks because it's the same spelling as the ice gating jump
so and I call the ice gating jump a lutz but some people would say lots and Tracy if you're one of those people I apologise but how friggin cool to have a name like an ice gating jump I always found the lutz the hardest ice gating jump by the way very difficult
it's to do with edges David very different you have to be on a you have to be on the right edge going in yeah Tracy says that she and her husband adopted Bailey as a puppy and she's been lucky enough to have him in her life for the last four years Bailey loves snuggles and snoozing and in fact is doing exactly that in the photo that I'm looking at and I spent countless hours curled up watching tennis with me he's food obsessed and has an incredible knack for sniffing out street snacks
it's remarkable how many chicken bones one little beagle can find on the streets of Toronto she says my husband Matt and I got married in November and for our honeymoon we went to Indian Wells I'm not going to say we planned it hoping that the tennis podcast would be on location
but I will say there were a few dark moments when you slid mentioned into a part at the end of the Australian open that you weren't going to be on site we're causing people dark moments that's a terrible thought Tracy and Matt sorry to disappoint we will return to India Wells one day but thank you ever so much for Bailey and for this gorgeous photo I'm looking at of Bailey very restful which is interesting because I always think of beagles as a very energetic
what's the right word for this I love beagles but every time I see a beagle owner on Wimbledon Common I say oh I love beagles and they say yeah but they're crazy but they always mean it in the very best possible way so Bailey is lovely thank you Bailey and thank you Tracy
yeah Bailey is doing exactly what Billie Jean is doing on my lap right now trying to hog the electric blanket Bailey thank you thank you to our mascot the dearly departed Darwin to Francis and to Hyder and Soma thank you to Billie Jean King and Elana Claus for sponsoring the sleeping Billie Jean
hello to our top folks and executive producers Chris Greg Jamie and Jeff and it's the return of shout outs over to Matt yes although just singular today we're going to have one one special shout out is it Richard Gaskin he's had several in this episode it is for Ashma Gandhi from Neil and Sarita
this is a surprise for Ashma oh Ashma is a huge tennis and tennis podcast fan and sometimes they listen to the pod together as a family oh so hang on what relation what relation are they to one another so Neil and Sarita are Ashma's parents well that's just lovely do you think they have other children that aren't fans of the tennis podcast or do you think they just chose their favorite child to give a shout out to you
I know I've had several emails from Neil about about this shout out and how excited they were you know to be able to do it for her because because she was she would appreciate it so much apparently so I'm thrilled do we think Ashma is an adult fan I think everyone's an adult fan
everyone's an adult well I hope Ashma that this is hoping you through the dark nadal retirement moments and if you don't care then good luck to you that's a lovely lovely if you're a big fan of two club Wimbledon finals I hope that this pod has helped you through that as well
maybe Ashma is similarly worked up about the the 4pm Wimbledon finals start start time and needed this boost Ashma that is well Ashma's parents that's a lovely thing to do and hello Ashma and thank you all for being fans and friends of the tennis podcast
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