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Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Marian Bartodi. This is Bianca Andreescu. I'm Mats Villander. This is Mary Carrillo. This is Pam Schreiber. This is Yannick Noah. And you're listening to The Tennis Podcast. Hello and welcome to The Tennis Podcast where it is a little after 11pm here in Malaga where you find myself and Matt and a little after 10pm in Solihull where you find David and where you find...
The Netherlands is in a first Davis Cup final. After 104 years competing in this competition, the Dutch have made it to a final. Courtesy of two singles victories for Bertuk van der Zandsgruppe. He's in a strange situation, Wesley Koolhoff, isn't he? Like he doesn't know whether he's played the last match of his career or not. And yet, if he does play one more match, it will be to decide the Davis Cup. Like, what a situation. He's either done forever, or he's got the biggest match of his life.
Still to go. Isn't that wild? But he's had his retirement ceremony. Not that that's necessarily the lead story of this evening. But it is how... The night ended here in Malaga because there was no doubles to play because the two singles players got the job done. David, there were some nervy old moments in there for all four singles players that we saw tonight, weren't there? In fact, it all got pretty dicey and ropey and very, very dramatic at times. But ultimately it was...
It was the Dutch that held the nerve. And it is those nerves that I will remember this tie for. Because look, there was some good tennis. There were one or two absolutely spectacular shots. That I will remember. But mainly I'll remember four guys who aren't usually in this sort of position. Who just don't normally have their country on their back.
Trying to take them in the Netherlands case somewhere they've never been before. And in the case of Germany somewhere that these particular players would never have taken them before because. Normally, well, I mean, they should have Alexander Zverev in their team. And I certainly wouldn't blame them if they were thinking, well, where was he when we needed him? But I think it all contributed to an absolutely delicious...
Few hours of nerve-racking sport. Because actually, that's what it's all about. Staring down your greatest hopes and dreams and fears all at the same time. in your chosen profession and finding out in real time whether you've actually got it in you to get over the line and look obviously it's not all in your own power Inasmuch as your opponent is directly affecting you as well. And that's what they were all going through. Every one of those four players has got sort of psychological...
...frailties, and they've shown it over the years. You've described to me how Jan Lennar-Stroff has choked in the past. I've never really thought of him as a choker myself. As I said in the previous show, I thought they would get through and I thought he would be Mr... But actually, you know, there are matches where that's happened. And I think it happened tonight as well. I mean, we've seen Talon Greekspor, the man that beat him.
4-1 double break-up against Verev at the French Open. And just completely capitulating. Partly because his opponent put some pressure on. But mainly because he choked. We've seen Bottica van der Zanschub. Double faulting. Like crazy when he's nervous. And he was doing it again tonight. And Mary Carrillo is always telling us. Choke and win anyway. They're the champions. They're the players. Because even the greats choke.
But it's the ones that can handle it that you remember. And the final player there... Daniel Altmire, we'd found out about earlier this tournament, how nervous he was. He wasn't even sure he should be in the team. I just love this. I mean, it was... You could feel it. None of them were hiding it.
Apart from Burtick van der Zanschelp, who seems to hide everything. But I mean, generally... Hang on a second, David. Did you just describe Burtick van der Zanschelp as great? As a great... In this microcosm of... ...of this event, where... I mean, he's great in his own world by getting through his... biggest fears and coming out We're all great in our own worlds David Not if you fail, not if you sort of stare it down and wither
And he was nervous and he still managed to get through. And I just... It was brilliant being on the barge tonight. You know, this is our... That we set up in March this year. And I needed it tonight. I was hanging out with all these people. And reading their conversations. And the nerve wracking ride. They were all going on. Listeners to the podcast.
Yeah, you felt like you needed some comfort. And I can only imagine how the players on the court must have felt. There aren't many players out there that have won matches on their 10th. match point. But there definitely aren't any that have won on their 10th match point and shown so little joy in that moment than Bertuk van der Zandtkel. I mean, so little anything. In that moment. It was... Extraordinary. It was absolutely extraordinary. It's kind of epic in its own way.
Yeah, he finally wins this match after over two and a half hours where he's had, I think, five match points in the second set tiebreak and then... And he needs another five match points in the third set to get over the line. So he does it on his 10th match point, a match which went from a real snooze, to be quite honest.
Att 6-4-4-2. To Bortik van der Zanskel. Nothing was really happening. Neither player was playing their best. Neither player was playing horribly. It was just Bortik van der Zanskel. Daniel Altmaier. And he had break points there for a double break. This match was so nearly done. And Daniel Altmaier. I didn't know whether he was kind of.
Faking his belief. That he could get back into this match. Or whether he genuinely believed it. But he was roaring and fist pumping. And doing all the kind of things that you. ...associate with the Davis Cup. And he did hold that game. And then he got back into the match. And suddenly it became absolutely compelling. And that second set tie-break was... ...very similar to the Kokonakis-Shelton tie-break... ...that we had yesterday.
You know, back and forth, match points, set points, coming and going. Really, really intriguing. But yeah, like, eventually Baltic van der Zanskort gets to that winning moment. And he does win it on his 10th. 10th match point. And what he did was get the spare ball out of his pocket and gently lob it into the crowd. Walk up to the net. Shake hands. And pack his belongings up. That was how Baltic Renaissance Hall celebrated.
Getting the Netherlands off to a 1-0 start in the Davis Cup semi-final after an epic match. He tidied up. He had a little clean. He didn't, he went over to his team, but normally, you know, it's big high fives and hugs and he just sort of gently went over one by one. Very, very. Well done, that's a good process. Yeah, it was. Unbelievable, that guy. He is a marvel. I've said it once, I'll say it again. He fascinates me. Because he does want it.
He does want it. I do think he feels things. I don't think he's AI generated. I think he's just... One of a kind. And it's amazing how, and this is a real testament to that Dutch orange wall of support. And it was a bit diminished tonight to what it was. ...a couple of nights ago, still strong and sort of enhanced in its strength... ...by the fact they were all wearing this uniform colour. You know, that's a very galvanising thing to have sort of...
Visually, as well as vocally, they are extremely loud. And look, it's easier. Dutch fans wouldn't have known for sure that they were going to... Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com Three nights ago, was it three nights ago, two nights ago? That was a lock, you know, that was set far in advance. You could get tickets for that and you knew what you were going to see. Tonight was, you know, it was less easy to plan for. But usually...
...support... ...requires... ...something to... ...they need something to get their teeth into, don't they? They need a spark. They can't start a fire without a spark. But... ...Botek van der Zandtkulp ain't giving... Giving you no spark. And they start a fire without a spark. The Dutch Orange Wall, don't they? They accept their man Bertik for what he is. And they...
They give him their everything, even though he's giving absolutely nothing back. He's not giving any sign that like, yep, you're helping me, carry on going. But... But I think they understand one another, the Dutch fans and Burtick, somehow. For sure. Absolutely for sure. And I do think that is where the Davis Cup is a little bit different generally.
Billie Jean King always says, doesn't she, that the fans are not there for the players. The players are there for the fans. And I do slightly think that the Davis Cup... Maybe slightly goes against that. Like the fans are there to support. Their guy in the Davis Cup. No matter what is happening. You can be a set. And a double breakdown. But it's kind of like the fans contract. With the player. That they will be supporting you. No matter what.
And whether that's a player who really wants the crowd support and is pumping them up and engaging with them or whether it's Burtick van der Zanskopp who's just doing his thing. Like the fans are still going to be there. And that is what I love about this competition. And yeah, like, it's one of those wins that kind of hard to really describe how... ...how he played, because there were some moments... ...that were really, really impressive. And what I liked in that...
second set tiebreak was his commitment to the serve volley. He serve volleyed in that second set tiebreak five or six times did van der Zandskal and generally pretty successfully except on his... It was one of his first match points. I think it was certainly his first match point on his serve. He came up with a serve volley. And Altmaier... David, you said there'll be some shots that you remember from the ties today. Altmaier's shot to save the match point...
After Bultik van der Zanskop had serve volley. He hit a backhand. It was like it was almost behind him. och yet he still managed to flick it cross-court past van der Zansko. It was an absolutely stunning shot. It was Alcaraz-esque. It was unbelievably good. So good under that pressure. If Al Graz had done that, it would have been finger in the air, finger to the ear, give it to me, give it to me hand signals to the crowd. It would have been the full work. And it really...
...lit up that tiebreak. And from that point on, a lot of the shot-making was really good. And Altmaier, on his own set point in that tiebreak, came up with a great play as well. And so we were kind of in this situation where... Van der Zandstorp had kind of let that second set slip. Like I think a more ruthless player would have converted for a double break or would have taken one of those five match points. And yet Altmaier did come up with some good plays. So you kind of had to...
...to praise him. And then in that final set, van der Zanskel... Immediately goes up a break. And I kind of thought. After what he'd been through. Missing all those match points. He might be a disaster in that final set. Well it's interesting. After the second set. I was writing him off. Totally writing van der Zansgruppe after squandering all those match points. And he immediately goes love 30 down at the start of the third. And I thought, you know, six love, six one set.
I had no faith in him at all at that point. I thought, writing's on the wall here. And in fact, kind of the opposite. To his massive credit. Yeah, because then he held that game and then he went to break up. But then he did immediately give the break back with an absolutely terrible forehand that came absolutely nowhere near. Det var en ganska bad forehands i det match. Ja. Om jag hade en men's backhand list, Altmajer skulle vara en real contender. One of the things I like is when a player...
har en backhand som är mycket mer solid än en forehand. Och Altmajer är... ...is a perfect example of that. It's a flashy backhand. It's a one-hander that he can generate a lot of pace on and it's cool to look at. But it is actually also his more reliable shot. His forehand is...
is a real weakness. And at times he gets it right, obviously, but there's a lot of occasions where he doesn't connect with the ball very well. There's a lot of occasions where he drops it short. I think when he's nervous, that forehand... ...doesn't stand up to scrutiny. First time and a half. Yeah, it gets very spinny, doesn't it? The sound it makes off the racket, it's a very thin sound off the racket. It sounds like a mishit every time. He served and volleyed.
...loads himself to get back into it. And I think A, to hide that forehand and stop him having to hit any. And B, to get himself going. And he was doing the full roundhouse fist pumps and stuff that I don't really... he think is him but i i think he needed it in order to try to get rid of his nerves but actually the problem you've got is sustaining that Sustaining that energy. All the way through. I think Botek probably just sort of.
Råd those waves. Because he doesn't do these big ups and downs. And he played a great game to break. Did van der Zandstorp in that third set. He really connected with some returns. And then he served it out. But. He played a horrible game. He did. He double folded three times in it. You know, it was not convincing at all. And yet he did manage to find a way through. So I come out of it thinking, well, he won.
But it wasn't the van der Zanskel that beat Al Kras. It was absolutely not that guy. It wasn't even really the guy who... ...who beat Nadal, I would say, in terms of how good he was through most of that match. It was a lot more nervy. Kind of the van der Zanskorp that we've maybe been used to seeing a bit more often over the past couple of years. But he won. And that's the most important thing. And yeah, it's...
I just can't believe that van der Zanskorp has become like one of the central figures of our life over the past three months. Like I hadn't really thought about him as a tennis player for so long. And yet now I find him one of the most... Compelling figures that there is. Well earlier this year. He said he was considering retiring. Didn't he? Because he was miserable.
Quite frankly, it wasn't making him happy. The results weren't coming. He was finding life on tour really hard. And he hasn't actually told us that that's no longer the case. We're kind of assuming that's no longer the case because he's had these incredible... And he's suddenly part of the conversation. And because he's changed in our minds. We're kind of assuming that the sport has changed in his mind. But that's not necessarily the case. And that's probably.
Probably something that it would be worth asking him about on Sunday if it feels appropriate. But boy, have I got to say Bertek van der Zundskolp a lot recently. He was saying in his Encore interview afterwards that he didn't feel that nervous today because it was nowhere near as nerve wracking as a couple of days ago. when he faced Nadal. But I mean, it is funny, even in his post-match interview, just how low-key he is. I mean, it reminds me in a way of when Daniel Medvedev...
Det var att han var att vara att vinna matcher och inte celebra. Det var att vara hittills. Men det var en väldigt co-ordinated, planlade thing. Och, you know, då hade han gett in en interview och han hade just come alive, you know. Borteg is. And I think in a way the Dutch fans, the orange wall there, I think that they kind of love that. They just love it. Do you think there's anything that really gets him going?
No. Not really. I think this is, you know... What gets Bertik van der Zanskopf pulse racing? Start the barge thread now. It takes all sorts, doesn't it? And I kind of... Love that you can get somebody who's as low-key as he is. And maybe he really is incredibly shy and uncomfortable in this environment. But he's just...
Like, ignoring that because he wants to be a player. I don't know, I'm just speculating. But I like the fact that he's able to be successful in this environment, in Davis Cup, where he's supposed to be all... Double fist pumps and all the rest of it. And engaging with a crowd. And he's just showing you another way. And here he is. He's a marvel. So he gets the Netherlands 1-0 up in the tie. Enter.
Talon Greeksport and Jalen Edstruth, the number one players for each team. There was never any doubt that these two were going to be the two picked to play at number one. In fact, as we discussed yesterday, there was... Very little selection, anticipation over this tie. It was all pretty much set in stone. So enter Struff and Greekspor. And it's an incredibly... Tight on the scoreline, but incredibly short first set. It went by in a flash, that first set for Struth. Yeah, like...
I looked up and it was 38 minutes gone and we were in a tiebreak. Servebots. That's unheard of. Totally serve-dominated. Yeah, completely. Yeah, it wasn't... It wasn't thrilling, was it? No, terrible. As an entertainment, as a spectacle, it was like watching the 1994 Wimbledon final with Goran and Pete Sampras. Get me to the tiebreak.
And Greek Spor's numbers on serve generally, absolutely remarkable in this match. 25 aces and only one double fold. Twice the number of aces of Struff, who has a good serve. And Greekspor was just in such a brilliant rhythm with that shot the entire match. And, you know, he lost that first set tiebreak. And then he had a... He had to facebreak points, didn't he? I think down 3-4 in that second set. And he came up with an absolutely huge hold of serve. And that was the turning point.
Because from that point on, I thought Greekspor was absolutely awesome. In that 5-all game when he got the break against Struff, he came up with a phenomenal... Forehand passing shot up the line. To create one of those break points. And then eventually converted it. His second attempt. And he did that celebration. Where he just sort of. Stands there and puffs out his chest and stares at his support gang on the sideline. Who by the way were an absolute vibe. Jesper de Jong and...
And others, I'm not actually sure who they were. They only looked about 16 years old, but they were absolutely giving it on the sidelines. Ja, he was just brilliant in that crucial moment, right at the end of the second set, start of the third set. I mean, Struth will definitely have a regret over a smash that he missed. ...to lose his serve at the start of that third set. I could...
I could hear my dad at home saying, let it bounce, let it bounce. And yet he didn't. And he put it straight in the bottom of the net. And that was the break that Greek sport needed. Jag har definitivt haft en fläke, getting tight, kan chocka watchlist. Han har verkligen stept upp idag.
He didn't play a great tiebreak in that first set. He double-folted to go set point down. All of those classic Greek spore signs were there. But he turned it around and he delivered in the biggest moments. Fair play to him. By contrast then, did Struff flake a bit? I think so. I mean, I do think Griegspor was brilliant and turned it around. But I do think Struff...
just tightened a lot. And he was so comfortable on serve. And then suddenly he wasn't. I mean, he did feel like the player that was going to win that match. But... Greek spore has an injection in him. And I remember... He's so different to van der Zanschorp in the way that he does want to engage with that crowd. He does want to draw energy. And I always remember the match before he played Zverev at the French Open. I went out onto the...
The backcourt say, you know, in that first week when I was... I wasn't doing any commentary. I was just able to sort of roam the grounds and see these matches in late night. It was the last match on the court. It was sort of, you know, 11pm and there's Talon Greekspor out in this corner and I was drawn to this match because he got a little orange wall there of his...
It was probably about 60 people strong, you know, but they were making such a racket. And I was just drawn to go and see what was going on. He wins the match and at the end he comes over to them and he does a sort of a proper sort of almost coordinated celebration. And I thought. This guy. He's not on a big court. But he loves this. He loves this vibe.
And then he played the Zverev match, which frankly he should have won. And I went to his press conference afterwards and I remember thinking, God, there's somebody who just doesn't quite understand. ...what's gone wrong and doesn't know how to... to get through these moments. And he seems quite candid about it. He seemed quite down that, you know, this keeps happening to me was the vibe that he was giving off. And it's happened since as well.
When he's going through this match and he finally wrestles the thing around with one of those injections of talent and explosiveness. That's what he's got. He's a real shot maker and suddenly he comes alive and he hurts top. players as well. I mean, you know, they don't like drawing him. And then he gets ahead and that's the moment that I just find so...
I mean, it's so mean, isn't it? But I can't get enough of it. Seeing if these people can handle the moment. Maybe people who haven't before. And he got over the line. And when he won... He fell to his knees like Bjorn Borg in the 1980 Wimbledon final. It was just fantastic. And that's just what it's all about. And it is... This is Matt's point that he made over lunch earlier. If this is a Grand Slam...
We're not taking much notice of greeksporstroph, are we? That's probably happening in the second or third round. You know, we might look at it and go, oh, that's that, you know, that could go five sets. That's a sort of. Yeah, that would be. Could be a good match. And once it's in the fifth set, I would get it on a screen and absolutely watch it. But we were watching every ball of these today. It would get lost. It would get lost. But...
I mean, look, it's absolutely brilliant when it's Yannick Sinner or Carlos Alcaraz or Jasmine Paolini or Igor Shiontek in these events. And I do believe these events need those top. ...to be the kind of pillars of it. But underneath those pillars then... ...that allows for the elevation of these lower ranked... Sort of momentarily. It allows you to be invested in them. In a very real. Unconfected way. You know. A match between Jan Lennistrof.
Talon Greekspor mattered so much today. And I was invested in it. You know, I went out there and I sat through most of it. I am not going to sit on an uncomfortable seat at a Grand Slam to watch Struff Greekspor. Fact. But... I didn't want to move from my seat today. It is cool that the Davis Cup can do that. People are probably listening to this thinking, get a life. Talk about something else at lunch. You've got a podcast to talk about that later. And yet they're...
There I was, bringing up conversations about how much I love the Davis Cup because of stuff like that. We talked about other things. We did. Can't remember any of them now. But we did. We talked about the Reading being doomed. Yes, we did. Great. Jolly then. Bit of football chat. Bit of Taylor Swift chat. We hit all the high notes. Actually, I don't think we did talk about Taylor Swift, but we definitely could have done anyway.
Yeah, that was my point really. Yeah, no, and I completely agree. And I think, you know, as we said at the top of the show, first time for the Netherlands into a... Like it's a huge moment. And yet they have in their own way been slightly knocking on the door in the last couple of years. Like, you know, I've been to these afterwards. He was quite bullish about that.
Because I've been to these Davis Cup finals and like, you know, Britain haven't always been there. The United States haven't always been there. And yet the Netherlands have always been there. They show up in this competition. France are never here. Think how good France are in terms of the players that they have.
They are never at the Davis Cup finals in recent years, but the Netherlands have been. And they've really taken this competition seriously. And they do always have their best players available in a way that Germany with Alexander Zverev don't. And they've had some unlucky draws. You know, some really tough ones. You know, I think they had Australia a couple of years ago.
in the quarterfinals who ended up reaching the final. And then last year they had Italy. So it's been tough for them. And then this year they get Spain. And they're probably thinking, oh, that's an absolute... och yet Har House turned it into this... This thing for them to absolutely relish. And he created a real us against them mentality. And they absolutely delivered on it. And now they've backed it up by beating Germany. They're kind of famous.
old sporting rivals. They've been a sneaky good Davis Cup team for a number of years now and this isn't a final that's completely out of the blue. They've got... Good, solid singles players at 1 and 2. And a world-class doubles player in Kulhoff who can combine with either of those singles players. And that's a very strong team. Add in... The captaincy of Paul Harhouse. Add in the orange wall. And it creates quite a vibe.
So they're absolutely worthy, worthy finalists, I think. And I'm really, really intrigued to see what they can do on... I would love them, whoever they face, to be able to take it to the doubles. I really would. Wesley Koolhoff would like that too. Do you think Wesley Koolhoff would rather the Dutch just win it? In the singles. Or do you think he'd rather. Roll the dice and get the chance to play. And bring it home. Play. Bring it home. I think he backs himself.
He wants to play. He wants to do it. He does seem a very cool customer in the ceremony they had for him afterwards. He's got a real confidence about who he is. I enjoyed the whole aftermath. And all their fans stayed. Harha said, well, with one of these two in the final, I think maybe we'll have to go and poison them. But he says, no, no, we'll cook something up for them. Och han säger att...
Wesley's got the best sense of humour out of the whole group. He's been a fantastic servant for us and let's bring him along and we'll kick some ass on Sunday, he said. He said it all with a smile on his face. You wouldn't take umbrage at it if you were Italy or Australia. We said at the outset of this event in the preview, he's an infectious character, Paul Harhouse. He makes you believe anything's...
He's a real disruptor. And he just loves it. He's one of those guys that when he retired he was... He was still training the next day. He didn't want to retire. He wanted to move. He wanted to be an athlete. And when he stopped being an athlete, he wanted to be a coach and a Davis Cup captain. And to make a difference, he's a competitor. And I got a lot of time for him. And I think he's done the most fantastic job. I mean, look at the teams that you would have put on paper.
...ahead of them. And I mean, you know, even in our newsletter predictions, Owen's gone with them to win the whole thing and basically render the entire season irrelevant if they win, because he'll just cat a... He'll just leapfrog everybody. And win the whole thing. They'll be underdogs in the final. Whoever it is. But with that doubles team. They have a chance. I believe. They will be underdogs, but underdogs with a chance. Not sort of moonshot underdogs.
I don't think. And look, we'll preview the final properly tomorrow once we know who it is. But I've been thinking a lot about the orange wall and the fact that... Due to the personnel involved, a lot of Italian fans now show up wearing orange. And I do wonder, you know, I was out and about in Malagy yesterday and it was...
Det var en karotter wall. Och jag vet inte om det var official karotterbois. Eller om det var Italian fans. Eller Yannick Sinner fans. Det hade bought karotterbois merch. Because karotterbois har merch nu. So I don't know whether these were OG boys. But there were a lot of people in... Karota boy attire. Out and about in Malaga yesterday. And it is the exact same colour. As.
As the sort of official Dutch team supporting colour. And I think that's a problem for the carrots. I really do. I think they're going to have to leave their carrot attire at home. But... We'll only find out if Italy win. Or wear an actual carrot outfit. Right, yes Matt. Yes, this is exposing. This situation would expose. Will expose the fact that it is a fraud. Yeah. For karate boys just to be men that wear orange. Correct. Yeah. Wear a flipping carrot onesie.
Hear, hear. Right. In part two, we'll be back to talk about whether Italy and the fraudulent Carotta boys are going to make it to the final. Verishores nya hemlarm med Lockguard digitalt dörrlås ger dig en nyckelfri vardag och full kontroll över vad som händer i ditt hem. Vid en nötsituation kan vi öppna från larmcentralen och se till att hjälpen kommer ännu snabbare på plats. Verishore. Vi är redo när varje sekund räknas. Få erbjudande på verishore.se.
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Welcome back to part two where we're going to talk now about the second semifinal. Italy against Australia. The prize to play the Netherlands in Sunday's final. There's no getting around it. There is a... There's a clear favourite here in this tie. And it is Italy. And it is because they've got the world's best player. Yeah. A repeat of last year's final. Where... Arnaldi and Sinna got the job done for Italy. And there's just a very interesting thing going on here, which is that Australia's...
Best player, Alex Dimonor, matches up horribly, and I don't use that word lightly, but horribly against Yannick Sinner. Their matches have been... ...complete blowouts, really, in Yannick Sinna's favour. I think De Manor won a set a very, very long time ago. But most of the time, that is a comfortable match-up for Yannick Sinna. And we saw it in... Turen, didn't we? Very, very recently. And I never want to see it again. Right. It's like Taylor Fritz's Diminor, but worse. Right.
It really is. It really is. It's like Sinner Fritz, but worse. Mm. Or... Yeah, it's Gas Gainadol. It's Federer for rare. Actually, that's probably unfair, Gaskej Nadal, because, you know, a lot of the issue with that matchup is that Gaskej's been... You know for the past decade been walking onto the court beaten against Nadal. I don't think Domino would ever walk onto the court beaten against anybody. I just don't think that's in him. I just think game wise it does not work.
So the interesting thing going on here is, you know, Alex Dimonor is Leighton Hewitt's guy. You know, it's like a son to him. He loves Alex Dimonor so much. I'm struggling to vision a world where Leighton Hewitt drops Alex de Menor. He just loves him so much. And I think he genuinely believes that he can kind of perform miracles for him. But... Would it be sensible? Would it be interesting? Yes, I think. Certainly the latter. It would definitely be interesting if Hewitt did say, look.
I don't think it's a good matchup, having Dimonor against Sinna. Let's try something else. And... The something else therefore would be putting someone else in that number one singles. Maybe Alexey Popperin at one. And then Tenasi Kokonakis who delivered that point so brilliantly for him the other day at two.
I would love to see him try something like that. I think that would be really interesting. Because then if Australia can get it to the doubles. The key for Australia here is plotting a path. Where they can somehow get it to the doubles. And put their guys Ebden and Thompson.
...up against whoever Italy put out. Which would probably be Sinner and Berrettini again. And you'd have to say Ebden and Thompson would have a genuine shot at beating Sinner and Berrettini. Like the tie would suddenly become very even. But can they get it to the doubles? And like obviously what I've said there about trying to figure out a way to beat Sinner.
is probably not the route. Even if they play Popperin, he's probably still going to lose to Sinner most likely. So the big decision that Hewitt has to make is who does he want in that number two? Does he want Kokkinakis igen? Who delivered a point for him the other day. But it was a pretty long match. It was emotional. It was a big moment for him. Can he back it up? Or does he want Popperin?
Or does he want maybe a curveball and go Thompson, who's had a really good year. But that's the one that... Australia have to win. They have to win that number two singles because you have to assume that they are not going to beat Yannick Sinna. Now, we don't know who Italy will play in the number two singles, but we suspect it won't be Lorenzo Mazzetti after his performance the other day. So it will most likely be Berrettini. So...
You know, that's where the mind games come in and the strategy comes in. Hewitt has probably got to pick a guy who he thinks is most likely to beat Berrettini out of Coconakis, Thompson and Poporin. And I think right there. The tie is maybe won or lost for Australia. Who would you pick to face Berrettini? I think I would probably go Kokkinakis again.
Just because he did play so well for most of that match. He's got confidence. He's been kind of bred for this moment, as I said the other day. The fact that the way he's been... Resting and everything. Since the group stages. If you suddenly bring Popper in. Who hasn't played a match on that court. You know. When you've got a guy who's just won a match.
Popperin got really tight against Arnaldi and he said that match gives him nightmares. Popperin has improved a lot this year and has won some big matches for sure. But just in this environment, I think I would be tempted to go Kokonakis again. But look, I think whoever they go, they're not the favourite. And if he does go Kokonakis, that would mean he could pick anybody he likes.
Yeah. Because Kokonakis is the lowest rank of those you've mentioned. Yeah, and throw a curveball at Italy. Kokonakis has never played against Berrettini. Poporin has beaten Berrettini this year. A few weeks ago. 7576. So close. But this is different. This is a different environment. And Berrettini looked bloody good the other day. In the doubles. And I listen, I think Popperin's a really dangerous player and actually I would be going and putting him up against.
Sinna. I think he would worry Sinna more. I don't think Sinna's going to worry about anybody really. But I think he'd be more... concerned about playing him than he would about Dimonor. And that's not to disrespect Dimonor, it's just that he knows that game. He knows that if he plays his best stuff, it's not hurting him. against Dimonor. Now, I still, I think Sinner's best beats Popperin as well, obviously. But Popperin's serve and serve can keep him in sets.
And then he can explode with that forehand. I mean, he can be really devastating for spells. So, and I think if you put him in against Sinner, especially if... Kokonagus has got the job done in the first one. He can just have a swing. He could just go for it and not worry. I'd do the same. I would play... Poppa in at 1. I feel awful saying it because I love Alex de Mino. I have so much time and respect for him. And I quite often really enjoy watching him.
He is in the right matchup. He is somebody I'd go out of my way to watch. Popper in 1-0 head-to-head. I feel... Ooh. I enjoyed that noise. It's pre-pukes in her. It's 2021. But that's something that Hewitt can use in his pipe speech, isn't it? It's also something he can use to tell him it all. You're sitting, mate, because this bloke's actually beat him. Do you know, I think the thing about, you know, Hewitt's never going to drop de menor, and I do hear that, but I also think...
Derminald would totally get it. Oh, totally, yeah. I don't think there'd be any ego there. Yeah, agreed. Fighting it. Or being chippy about it. And not in a sort of resigned. Oh I'm never going to beat Anik Sina way. But I just think it would be very accepting. And I think. 8-0. Ja, det är väldigt, väldigt bad. Of everybody in this competition, still, I would give, doubles players excluded, sorry Wesley, you're still my guy.
I would give Alex de Menorre the least chance of beating Yannick Sinner. First time I ever saw that match was back in the days when I was quite interested in the next gen finals. When were those days? Well... when Sinna played Dimonor in the final. I remember that, yeah. I remember watching it and Sinna absolutely destroyed him. It was...
It was crazy. He was just hitting through him so easily. 4-2-4-1-4-2 apparently. Right. I'd never seen anyone dismantle Dimonor like that. It was really, really shocking. And he's just kept that going. Like, I thought maybe at the time, oh, this is because it's, you know, fast four and it's not proper tennis. You know, I'd love to see that in a proper match. And we have seen it in a proper match and it looks exactly the same. So, like...
Genuinely fascinating whether Hewitt goes with that. And like, the thing is... I don't think it's, it's not that risky, is it? Like if he drops Dimonor and plays Popperin and they lose 2-0, he's not going to receive a load of criticism for dropping a clanger and leaving his number one player. Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com You know, Hewitt's made a kind of informed, interesting strategical decision there. So I would love him to go for it. But I think it...
It will be revealing about just how much he values Alex Dimonor. If he picks Alex Dimonor tomorrow to face Yannick Sinner, the guy who he's 0-8 against, like... then he's always going to pick Alex Dimonor. Like, forevermore. He's not even fully fit. No. Exactly. If ever there's a time not to pick him, it's this one. But I don't know. I love all this stuff. And I know we've been...
I'm particularly spoiled with it, I think, this week at these Davis Cup finals with selection drama and selection bungles that have produced drama. I don't know whether it's, you know, a bit of sadism in me, but I really enjoy this aspect of this new format. And it's interesting, you know, one of the pops that Leighton Hewitt...
...took at the new format the other day. And look, I'm not an unreserved apologist of the new format by any means. I just, I really do like this element of it. But Lane Hewitt... took the opportunity when sort of being quizzed by, I think, maybe you, Matt. No, I think it was Reem, actually. On that occasion, OK. Yeah, it was one of the questions that I wasn't posing. Yeah, he's been quizzed about this...
Aspect of captaincy. And he obviously took the chance. To have a pop at the format change. And he said just didn't used to be like this. In my day. You know the draw was done. You knew who you were playing. ...days in advance, and you knew who to prepare for. And I get why that's better for the players, Leighton. But hearing that as an observer and an enjoyer of the sport, I thought... God, that sounds boring. You'd be missing out on all this fun. Like, this is so fun. Matt's thinking back to...
Heinz Guntart and all that. Mm. Yeah. Fun. Yeah. Yeah. He said he said something like. Back in my day with the great old format, just to sort of have a little dig that he doesn't like this one. And then he explained about how, yeah, the draw was made and you knew who you would play.
Then you would play the reverse singles. So you knew who you would play in that as well. Unless there was maybe a change in those. On some rare occasions. But generally it followed a pretty similar formula. And it explained all that. And then Reem followed up by saying. Do you like this new format? Not really, no. It's interesting that he's, I mean, I think he's just so entrenched in his take on the new format.
That's not even that new anymore. But the relatively new format. That I just don't think there's any logic. Or any success even. That would change that. I don't think Leighton Hewitt has ever admitted. He's wrong about anything. Exactly. But it's interesting. Applying some logic to his position. Like he's a. He's a captain now and the new format really does elevate the role of the captain.
I think. And that's very exposing as we've seen this week. They have big decisions to make that can go very very wrong. And seriously have done this week as evidenced by. How many sort of slightly sad-looking Spain and Nadal fans there were in and around the stadium tonight that had obviously... Bought tickets for the Friday tie. Assuming Spain would win a few nights ago. And not banking on David Ferrer. Doing what David Ferrer did. And...
Very committed to showing up still in their Spain scarf. Yeah, there were a lot of sort of homemade Rafael Nadal t-shirts tonight that looked a little bit sad. But anyway, you know... It's a lot more than just picking your two best players and your doubles team. I did used to think, is the captain role just a bit of a mascot?
...about these competitions. Because the teams sort of pick themselves, don't they? Like, oh, you've got two good players, play them then. And it feels to me like there's an awful lot more to it now. And I really, really enjoy that. And yeah, it's interesting that as a captain, he doesn't. But as I say, I don't think he's necessarily applying that logic to it. I think he's just...
Taken a view and is. Staying there regardless. Yeah. And like I do agree with. A lot of his points. On the new Davis Cup format. Generally like. A really big one for him is the fact that now the Davis Cup finals for the last five years exclusively played on an indoor hardcourt. And I think that's a shame. The variety of surfaces and conditions is such a...
Great asset that tennis has. And such a great asset that this competition had. You know where the home tie would choose the surface. And we do lose that now at these finals. And also the fact that. He said in one of his press conferences earlier this week, Tennis Australia and Hewitt really pushing to host the finals. Like, they want to. They are pushing to host this thing next year. Hewitt says we want to host it. We want to have it. It's unfair that we constantly have to come to Europe.
where we're going to have probably the smallest amount of fans. And I totally... And they did. And they did. And I totally get that. That is tough to see, isn't it, for a tennis nation that you know has some of... The best and most vociferous fans in the world if they were given the opportunity to show out. Oh, if Australia did put on the Davis Cup finals, like the people would turn out for that. They have such an incredible history in this competition and they love it.
They're obsessed with it. And yet it's completely, like given the new format, it is completely unrealistic that it's held in Australia. It just wouldn't be practical to have all these teams going over to Australia at this time of year. And all the other sets of fans wouldn't... really be able to go like it just would be problematic so he's absolutely right that there is like an issue there with this new format as it is currently and yet it is kind of a shame that he doesn't
Acknowledge that and then also recognise some of the good elements that there are now, like what you're saying there about all these decisions and how the role of the captain has maybe been a little bit elevated. And look, he's done a very good job as Australia's Davis Cup. captain. He's got them in a couple of finals over the last couple of years and they're back in a semi-final and they've got a shot tomorrow against Italy. Italy are favourite but...
They've got a shot. That's why you need my challenge round that I've been telling you about. I like it, David. So that you go and win the Davis Cup and then... And then next year Leighton Hewitt's Australia wouldn't have to play in all this. It would just be waiting for the winners of the finals week. And they'd be waiting in Australia the following week. I'm in.
You've got so many good ideas, David. If only they would listen. Okay, well, I'm not going to ask you who's going to win because I think... I think I know what you're going to say. Pretty obviously Italy is the pick here. I'm going to ask you both if...
...to predict whether it'll go to the doubles. No, I don't think it will. That's interesting, because I think if it does go to the doubles... ...I think maybe I'm favouring Australia. I definitely think it's 50-50 if it goes to the doubles. But I think Italy will do it. In 2? Yeah. Okay. I think so too. I think it's...
Det är intressant, är Berrettini redo att playa singles? Jag var att säga, det är en stor backing av Berrettini. Det är. Bara på not much recent form. Han har varit en del i doubles och jag har tått mig mig väldigt emotional. But it's a lot of confidence we're showing in him on the basis of not a lot. No, you're right. You're right. I mean, he has played well this year when he's played.
Generally, you know, he's still got a very good level in him. And this surface, like the way the ball is skidding through, like if he has a good serving day, he will be a nightmare. But you're right. We've got nothing to go on. And we saw Kokoneckis the other day look brilliant. So it's a close one. I'm really looking forward to it. Me too. Slightly regretting that my flight is bang smack in the middle of it. But last year I was able to watch the final in the air. Do you remember that?
Fingers crossed that British Airways comes through for me again and offers that same service. We will see. We'll of course... Be back with another tennis podcast tomorrow to talk about the semifinal. Look ahead to the final. And we'll be back with a final Davis Cup podcast on Sunday after the final. I have said final. A lot in that sentence. But in short, two more podcasts to come from Malaga. We are having a good time, aren't we? We're rocking and rolling. It feels like we're really...
Reaching a fun climax. And I'm looking forward. To this weekend. And pumped Matt is as well. More than anyone I think. Big time. Two more days of the tennis season. And then there's exhibitions and, you know, the coaching carousel. But yes. I recognise the coaching carousel. I don't recognise exhibitions.
Hello to Phoebe, our Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup mascot. Hello to our mascots, of course, the dearly departed Darwin, Francis, Haida and Soma. You are our longstanding servants for 20 years. We're very grateful for that. Hello to Billie Jean and her sponsors Ilana Kloss and birthday girl Billie Jean King. Happy birthday, Billie Jean King. Happy birthday, Billie Jean King. They celebrated in Malaga, moments away from where we were, Matt, on the beach earlier. We didn't know that...
Birthday girl Billie Jean King was in our midst. No, until we went on Instagram and saw that we'd had exactly the same day. We'd had the same day. Look like we've been stalking them. Anyway, happy birthday, Billie Jean. Hello to our executive producers, Greg, Chris, Jamie and Jeff. You are legends, the lot of you. And Matt, we have some shout outs. We start with Lara Burgess in Wimbledon. Wimbledon. Hello, Lara. Hello, Lara. What a location. Like Lara Aruabarena.
Is it the same spelling? It sure is. Wow. That is very well done, Matt. That is her name, right? Yes, I'm never sure whether it's Laura. I'm pretty sure it's Lara. Well then yes, that's a person. Okay. I've suddenly lost all confidence in it despite saying it. Yes, Lara Aruberena. Correct. Excellent. Do we know anything about Lara? Other than that she's in Wimbledon, we do not. What else do you need to know? Lara, thank you very much. We've also got Michelle Chen.
In New York. Hello Michelle. Hello Michelle. Our third shout out has got to be in either Melbourne or Paris. I hope you know that. Okay. Like De Brito. Michelle Larcher De Brito. Yes. Very good. Very, very good. A rare Portuguese. Yes. Tennis player. All I've got, if you'll allow me this, is Nathan Chen, the US figure skater. And Michelle says, last time Catherine mentioned some figure skaters for my name.
You set me up there Matt. No, you did that. I deliberately didn't mention that until you brought me up. What I'll say Michelle is he's not some figure skater. He is an Olympic champion and one of the... most excellent, beautiful figure skaters there has ever been. You arguing with our friend Michelle? I would urge you, Michelle, to look up his, which performance would I pick for you?
His Elton John short program. There we go. You've got an excellent namesake Michelle and I'm sorry but I'll do better for you next time. Please come back. Thanks Michelle. And finally, we have Mark A. Prince Jr. In Ohio. Like Freddie Prinz Jr. I think Mark might have been in touch with us on... social media channels we used to be on in the past so thank you Mark and Mark says as a fan I completed the calendar slam in 2019
And the career golden slam prior having seen Andre Agassi win the gold medal in 1996. Wow. Atlanta. Very cool. Wow. That's incredibly cool, Mark. Yeah. That's more than we've done. We haven't done the career Golden Slam. But we will. But we will. Absolutely. Matt and I have got plans to stay with Pam for the LA Olympics. She did invite us to be fair. She loosely invited us. Pam if you're listening we've remembered. We've put it in our diaries.
On a podcast was definitely the best way to tell Pam about us coming to stay with her for two weeks, yeah. Definitely. Hello Pam. Hello Mark. Hello Michelle. Hello Laura. Thank you ever so much for your support of the Tennis Podcast. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod then the link to do that is in our show notes. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow.
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