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Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Mary and Bartori. This is Bianca and Drasco. I'm Matt's Belander. This is Mary Carillo. This is Pam Shriver. This is Janic Noah and you're listening to the tennis podcast. Hello, welcome to the tennis podcast on day three of the Davis Cup. You find myself and Matt in Malaga, David in sunny, sub zero, sunny hole. It's been fun and games at the Davis Cup today.
A semifinal between Italy and Australia has been set up courtesy of two Robert to one victories for the respective teams. But my goodness, me, does that not tell the story of today, Matt, today has been, it's been everything. It's been so much fun. So much drama, which I just absolutely love. One of my very favorite things about the Davis Cup is the selections and the strategy and everything that goes into that.
And we just had so many talking points today, so much drama. It's just brilliant opportunity to question some captains on their decisions and find out what they were thinking or not thinking. And we got a lot of those opportunities today. Yeah, I honestly had the best time at the Davis Cup today. Yeah, I mean, kind of a, I don't think I'd change a thing about today, David. It was just quintessential somehow. And Noah with Bob Ryan, just going to put that in there.
Yeah, it's one of the beauties of it. I mean, I'm watching from a far off a sea and and do a lot of, oh, wow, really? You know, reactions to what was going on. But you have that privilege of being in those press conferences and having the chance to follow up all the emotions and reactions that we have in reality. And in speaking to the people who've made those decisions, different sorts of responses you were getting back.
But I think it shows the pressures and the differences that that you have on the inside when you're making these decisions versus maybe watching from afar. I'm sure Bob Brian and Layton Hewitt, you know, they would have had years of watching decisions and hearing about things and wondering, what, why have they done that? And then suddenly they're responsible for it. And they're in the spotlight. And yeah, quite quite a day.
Yeah, and look, Janik Sinow is in action this evening. Obviously, he's, he's the biggest star, the biggest name left in this tournament or whoever was ever in this tournament. And we will talk about him in detail in Italy's victory over Argentina this this evening, which was dramatic in and in and of itself.
But I do think we should start with the USA and Australia because because we love the drama. And this is where the real Davis Cup drama was today, the kind of drama that you only get in the Davis Cup. And that's kind of my, my favorite thing about the way this, this tie unfolded today. So we had the Nazi cock and arcists picked for Australia in the first rubber to face Ben Shelton picked at number two for the USA.
616 4676 for cock and arc as he saved four match points. Although I would say none of those were on Ben Shelton's serve. It felt to me like Ben Shelton was always on the back foot in this match and and yes, it went right down to the wire. 1614 in the match tie break. And yet, and look, I know this is easy to say in hindsight.
I kind of always felt like the Nazi cock and arcist was going to win this. I really did like. I didn't have confidence in Ben Shelton at any stage during this match. Is that harsh? No, I don't think it's harsh. I wasn't quite so sure. Like I really did think that that final set tie break was just on an absolute knife. It could have gone either way.
I didn't feel confident at that stage that cock and arcist was going to win. But it was really notable how flat Shelton was right at the start. You know, he lost three times in that opening set. It shouldn't be happening to start to flat or not. That shouldn't happen to Ben Shelton. No. And look, some credit absolutely to cock and arcist. He was reading that serve. He was on it. He was all over it.
He was very, very good to start this match. But Shelton was so sluggish and not himself. And you just you can't afford to start that slowly against a quality player like cock and arcist. And even cock and arcist's section was one of the surprises of the day to me. Like first thing this morning when those nominations dropped at nine. Like I wasn't expecting cock and arcist to be to be named by Hugh it. I thought he would go with popper in and interesting that the US team.
Said they thought the same. They were preparing for a Lexi popper in but kind of digging into it today. It really does seem that cock and arcist won a couple of matches for Australia in the group stages in September where he beat Art of Feast and Jacob Men's Sictu of the real talents that are coming through right now.
Big wins and he said to him, rest up. I'm going to need you at the Davis Cup finals in November and he's played laver cup since then and he's played this challenger in Sydney. Otherwise cock and arcist has kind of been on ice getting ready and training. So he's fit for the Davis Cup and Hugh it said today that he really thinks he can get a lot out of cock and arcist in this competition in a way that you can't get stuff out of him on the tour and cock and arcist said the same.
He said for me, latent here is the best coach in the world because he he makes me want it more. He makes me try harder quite frankly. And he said, I can't do those things. We can week out but playing for latent here and Davis Cup. And that bond between player and captain is such an important aspect of this competition and the one between cock and arcist and Hugh it is really strong.
I think they're both from Adelaide aren't they? They just that like there's just an understanding between them and cock and arcist was the better player today. Like he really did start well. He probably was a bit unlucky to lose his serve right at the start of the second set and then you know he did end up in a match which became a serving contest really because Shelton did get his serve going and it was absolutely nip and tuck in those final stages.
But there was one forehand that I want to shout out for cock and arcist when he was down match point I think it was 11 12. He just ran around his backhand and absolutely belted a forehand down the line. And that was a really gutsy shot to play and it saved one of Shelton's match points and then he eventually converted his seventh. Yeah, like the drama was was compelling.
It wasn't always the highest quality match I didn't think but it was really gripping and for cock and arcist who we know has had so many injuries and when Australia got to the final hair couple of years ago he was part of the squad but he just had sinus surgery he said and he really wasn't really wasn't quite himself.
He didn't really feel like part of like an integral part of the team but he did today and he he absolutely repaid he was faith in him. It was a great pick by he and a great performance from from cock and arcist.
It was so interesting the hewitt captain C and what cock and arcist has had to say there because we don't know late and he would be you know our experience of him is he's a he's a spiky character spoiler for later in the show when we will detail a pretty tense exchange between Matt and late and he would which is absolutely epic.
But you know he's a pretty spiky character like he doesn't strike me as a people person and yet he clearly does have this ability to really connect with with certain people it's obviously a chemistry thing it's not it's not everybody but when he does connect he's a he's a powerful voice a powerful leader and you know believe so intensely and representing his country and giving everything for that.
And I know we said this on so many Davis cut podcast past but it's able to do that in spite of all of his reservations which he very much wears on his sleeve about the format of this competition he gets a pop in. Yeah little dig in about the format in every opportunity he had one in the press conference today like it's rather the Davis cut press conference goes by that they didn't have a pop at the format change but here he is.
He's treating it like it's life or death anyway because it's still the Davis cop he would like it to be different but it's not and I spy here or not I just have endless time for that David. Yeah, same I think I've known him for 26 years since he came on the scene in 1998 as a 16 year old and won the Adelaide tournament beating on Dragassie in the semi finals and and he is the most uncompromising stubborn little.
And the third word there that I've ever met and and yet I can't love him for it you know he is he is so difficult if you get on the wrong side of him I've seen him take on the entire Australian media throughout his entire career and be absolutely.
Uninflexible in terms of giving way and that's what he was like on the course of play and yeah he's he's got all the elements against him he's got all the physicality against him didn't matter still one two grand slam title still became world number one still gave Roger Federer nightmares for the early part of their rivalry until Federer became who he would eventually be.
And then he's carried that through and that the strand that has always been there with him is his dedication to his country representing his country that was never in question once that his whole life and and he he takes that lineage so seriously that number on the the shirt that I think he's got number 89 on his shirt showing that he was the 89th Australian player to be picked for the Davis Cup team.
And he still has it on his shirt today they all get this number and he's got Tony roach his old coach and and mentor in the the support staff even now you know and Tony must be well mid 70s now I don't know exactly sure his age and and he's he's passing that on to this group and he's got them thinking like that as well you only have to hear we'll talk about Jordan Thompson and
Matt Matt Emton later and Jordan Thompson's talking like this you know any time I can get the green and gold on my back you know I'm a different man and and Tarnasie Kakanakis is a player who was so promising when he first came on the scene so exciting as a as a as a 17 year old Australian open and because of injury it just didn't happen and he's actually managed to make a very
credible career for himself in spite of some of the worst injuries runs I've seen in a player and depression off the back of it and yet here they are now and he's finding something else and himself and I actually love that he really likes relates back to the guy that got them here with those couple of wins and and is decided okay this is my guy for for I don't who knows whether he carries it through
it through the next rubbers and the next the next rounds but I do like that and wow was he vindicated because I wouldn't have chosen him when I just the lineup in terms of options on paper and I have seen Cuckan Arcus be heavily beaten a couple of years ago in the Davis Cup when he was given the chance to play but he was just on it. From ball one he was on it and Ben Shelton for whatever reason really wasn't and I was quite shocked
by and it no lack of trying but his lack of success in that first set. I kind of feel like you, Catherine, I wasn't watching it as closely maybe as you both were, I was in and out but it always felt like he was playing catch up and he was trying to search for something and get his game and I sort of thought if you ended up winning he would be he would win in spite of actually not being the better player even though it was on that knife edge in the tie break. So great
selection from from Hewitt and I fully vindicated. And I think the absolutely key thing for Cuckan Arcus and for Dimmernor like yeah maybe they're like maybe they don't get on with Hewitt on a you know friends level in terms of like you know you're saying like he's not a people guy
necessarily but they have a huge amount of respect for him like they really know that he rinsed everything out of his career that he could and and that he kind of achieved great great things and they you know in a Davis Cup environment they kind of idolise him and they're able to in these weeks absolutely just like follow him and and just like have him as their kind of leader and I think it really works because because they have a respect for him.
Hmm which is kind of how I feel about him too. Don't want to get to the pub with him but boy do I respect him and boy do I want to see Hewitt against Roberts in another in another press conference scene. So so at this point Australia are one one rubber up then we have Fritz against Dimmernor 6364 for Taylor Fritz. What do we what do we have to say about this brackets I don't have that much to say about this.
Well very slow start from Alex Dimmernor he lost 11 of the first 12 points and that and that one break that Fritz got in that period was enough for the first set and then Fritz he was just really really impressive today because he did say in his press conference that he's actually feeling pretty
tired and he was kind of hoping not to play today. He said like coming from Turin off off the back of that ideally he wouldn't have played today but when they knew that when they knew that Alex Dimmernor was in Australia's team apparently Alex Dimmernor matches up really well with Tommy Paul
so the US thought okay well we can't put Paul out to play against Dimmernor because that's a bad match up for us so Fritz who's just beaten Dimmernor into your in Fritz was like okay yeah country needs me I'll play I think it's the right decision and like he didn't seem fatigue he didn't seem
flat it was really sharp in the big moments he had triple break point in the second set that Dimmernor saved like all of them and you thought maybe that's a turning point but then the next returning game he just is straight back on it for it and breaks through then serves it out really efficiently and emphatically and yeah it was really really impressed by that because clearly clearly there's been some struggle going on in the last few days and some wondering whether he
should play but he just looked completely on it. Also interesting that Tadefritz stayed out to to be part of the support team in the box for the duration of that first singles I was sort of watching to see he's gonna leave right he's gonna leave and start his warm up you know because
they do that's I mean sometimes the the seconds the the the the the single players in the second match don't are on ever present court side for the for this first singles match and it says Cinnna wasn't out there watching around Zomazetia any stage today was he and that's entirely normal
but Tadefritz was there right until the very end which is really unusual and yeah I was thinking oh could this end up being a storyline you know if it turns up losing I'll be you know I'll be talking about this but no three and four he was great and and and I asked you about that and he was
so like relaxed about it as though it wasn't even a thing he he was like well I'll take my feet and my ankles up and I'll have a shower and then I'll go out with the team and and and that's kind of some of the pre match prep that I need to do and then I want to stay in support I think that's
really important I want to watch the team he also said he gets really really nervous when he watches like really nervous so he kind of maybe prefers to be with other people just to kind of experience the match rather than like stewing backstage watching it while he's waiting to go on and then he
was like and I don't need long then to get ready you got 15 minutes before the match I need 10 minutes to do a little bit of stretching and then then I'm ready to go so he clearly has a very different warm up routine than like some of the ones that we see of the players backstage in the gyms where it looks like they're taking you know half an hour 45 minutes Fritz seems to be a kind of give me the racket I'm ready to go kind of guy which um which kind of fits his personality I suppose
Taylor Fritz is doing less warm up for Davis Cup tennis than I am doing to get on the peloton that's yeah that's something okay so we're at one win a piece and we're headed into the doubles Matt and there is eager anticipation of the team use here and now the doubles teams that were
posted at the start of the day were I guess what we were expecting yes so we had uh Edden and Thompson lined up for Australia and we had Craig check and Ram lined up for the US and honestly you say that was eager anticipation for the you know team news to drop I wasn't really anticipating anything
I was just thinking right those are the those are the doubles lineups like because they they just made total sense to me as the doubles lineups I think um Fritz was asked in his encore interview whether there was a chance he was going to go out and play doubles and he and he shut it down he said no like maybe I could play with Shelton but you won't see me out on the doubles court today and I I took that to mean of course not because we're going to see Austin Craig check and actually Ram like
that's the doubles team um and then the news drops that it was that it was Tommy Paul and Ben Shelton going out to play so a guy who'd lost singles in Ben Shelton and a guy who hadn't played singles in Tommy Paul and honestly I was absolutely shook I couldn't believe that that was the team
that Bob Bryan doubles specialist Bob Bryan the captain had had chosen to go with and I think it's important here to give some context and some history of not like a hundred years worth of US Davis Cup doubles but just like a couple of years worth of important context around this decision
because I think it's all kind of related in 2022 Bob Bryan stepped in to be the captain at the group stages when Marty Fish wasn't available and he had actually Ram in his lineup and he played him and he used him and then when the US got to the finals the final eight in 2022
Ragey for Ram was dropped from the lineup and the US only took four players one of them was Jack Sock and Sock ended up playing the doubles with Paul as the US lost Italy in the quarter finals in the deciding doubles and he just won the A to B finals had a new Ragey for him like it was
an extraordinary decision they wasn't like they picked somebody else over him they just decided didn't play him we'll just not have him yeah no thanks and it was a really big thing Ram Ram tweeted when when the US lost house everyone's Thanksgiving going
Tommy Paul put out a tweet which he hastily deleted but the internet always remembers in which Tommy Paul tweeted doubles number one or a hundred he struggles against singles players ranked one to eight thousand singles or doubles that was a tweet that Tommy Paul put out about
Ragey for Ram during during that whole thing Ragey for Ram spoke out about it much later and put his point across about how upset he was not to have been included in that team and how little sense he thought the decision was to go with an incomplete team to the finals and even revealed
that Marty Fish blocked him on social media as a result of this whole event come 2023 Bob Ryan becomes the full-time Davis Cup captain for the US Marty Fish is out and Bob Ryan leads the US during the group stages in which they don't qualify for the finals they don't get out
of a group which contains Finland Finland made it to the Davis Cup finals last year at the expense of the USA and Bob Ryan was in charge of that US team the Netherlands also got through out of that group and then here we are 2024 these finals Bob Ryan has again
captain them through the group stages in which Ragey for Ram has been part of the team and has played doubles and won and they arrive here and Bob Ryan makes this statement during his press conference saying when I'm captain we're always going to have five players it's important for us to have a
doubles team you know and that's kind of the end of it that's kind of where today's story picks up and why I just was absolutely convinced that he would pick the doubles team that he had and Craig Chicken Ram reached the gold medal match at the Olympics this year they they lost to
Ebtan and Pears but they were in that gold medal match they they got a silver medal they've played you know they're not they're not in regular partners for a long time you know but they've I think they've played over 40 matches together and Paul and Shelton had played I think three matches
together in Miami last year 2023 that was their partnership and yeah it just struck me as an absolutely baffling decision to be honest so baffling that you're thinking okay well Bob Brian one of the doubles greats must know something that we don't know and David you
you absolutely called it at the time you said right well you know you make a decision this bold and you it's pretty binary at that point you live and die by it right this this comes off in ease a hero and it doesn't and it didn't it was you know six four six four to Thompson Ebtan but
it never felt that close to me like it always felt that Thompson and Ebtan were in control of this match to me and and yeah if it doesn't come off you've got massive questions to answer and it looks looks like a bungling yeah the the fact is I still think it's right for him to go with
whatever his gut tells him and whatever his instinct and judgment tells him as the captain regardless of what the the kind of public outcry might be afterwards you I don't think you can captain and manage teams like that but I didn't understand it I still don't understand it but Shelton
clearly wasn't in the greatest of form Tommy Paul hasn't hasn't played and and now is brought in and they're playing an established doubles pair I mean I suppose that the one of the better context we have to give is that Ram and Crycheck had not been in great form recently they'd lost
most of their matches recently but even so I don't I don't necessarily read too much into that they they're a good doubles team overall and I think that they raised their game for this particular match I mean I was massively shocked that Tommy Paul didn't get chosen for the singles
that the fact that Shelton was in for that I didn't I was immediately taken aback by that and then to make this decision with the doubles yeah it's it's quite simple really if you're going to make the big call like that and make a big change you've just got to win
otherwise we're all looking at you and thinking you screwed it up and and and this is a US team that a lot of us certainly I thought was was was favorite to not I mean I said they would win and obviously with Italy in that in the next round that's a good good luck with that
but they're so strong all the way through that is a good team and they on paper are stronger than Australia and fair place for Australia but that is not a good result for the US at all yeah the US have the second highest sorry the third highest rank number one at this tournament
behind Spain and Italy with Alcorazza and Sinner but they have the highest rank number two singles player in Tommy Paul and they had the highest rank number three singles player in Ben Shelton like so much strength there and they had an established doubles team and so that that makes you a really
really strong team and Bob Ryan had two selection decisions to make maybe he had three because Fritz has said there that you know he wasn't sure about playing so maybe all of his choices were like decisions that he had to make and he got to say like he's got two of them wrong for sure like
and the two big ones because I agree with David I think the doubles element here has has maybe taken some of the heat off the decision to play Shelton in the first singles rather than Paul and look it's maybe not an awful decision you know Ben Shelton is perfectly is capable of beating
cock and acke it's like absolutely but it was it was Shelton's Davis Cup debut and like I know he's played a lot of team competitions in the past but Davis Cup is different you know he's played he's played for his college team and he's played for his Lava Cup team but right Davis Cup is
representing your country like it's bigger and by the way he's more meaningful he played a tweener on a break point did Ben Shelton and I love him for it in in in most scenarios and it was fun and he was smiling afterwards and it was kind of a ooh I nearly pulled that off and he nearly
did pull it off but he didn't pull it off and it was one of very few break points he had in that match and we we all said at the time again it's like the decision to to make those selections you better win now you better win because I'm remembering that point otherwise there were a few moments
like that weren't there I mean there were a few key none is kind of critical as that in terms of the score line but there were some shot selection moments in that match which weren't great for Ben Shelton and yeah like that we can't be too harsh because that is so often what we really
love about him but it did just strike a bit of a bum note for me in this particular contest like something felt quite unserious about it and I know it's you know he's a guy that needs to be loose he's trying to keep himself loose that you can't it's no point in trying to change your DNA just
because you're suddenly representing your country you've got to go out there and be yourself but it just didn't feel tonally quite right to me out there and and I think you know that's where you look at that and think well Tommy Paul wouldn't have been like that you know like Tommy Paul
you know what you're going to get from Tommy Paul and the jobter most likely like I don't know maybe Kock and Akis could have beaten him like it's not it's not an outrageous thought that Kock and Akis could beat Tommy Paul but I was surprised that Paul
wasn't playing given that he you know he has just won a title in indoors as well as an E and like I know he then dropped off but that did seem to be like the pressure of trying to get to Tureen like I just thought he would be a good pick here and and then in terms of like the doubles
to me the big thing here is is not necessarily the fact of bringing in singles players because we're going to talk about Italy and they did they did a switch as well and they brought in their singles players but they brought in a singles player in Yannick's sinner who had just
played literally just played and just won and obviously is Yannick's sinner the best player in the world but the US as I said earlier brought in a player who'd lost and not been convincing in Shelton and a player who was cold who hadn't played in Paul and they didn't bring in Fritz who
had just played and had just won and had looked really good and I think that's a big difference between the decision that the US made to bring in those singles players and the decision that Italy played to bring in their singles players like I get wanting your firepower and your singles
players on on the court but when you've got an established team I think you've really got to be bringing in an informed singles player if you're going to disrupt that or or not pick that and yeah I think that's I think that's just you have to say he's made a pretty pretty fundamental error there even though he says don't regret it at all wouldn't change a thing I was happy with
all of my decisions today. Now on that on on Bob Bryant's insistence that he has no regrets about today that he said that in a press conference where he was he was flanked by his those two doubles players who had just you know failed to deliver on the faith that he that he put in them
and that is a that's a tough position to be and for captain isn't it you know you're you're too too to to front up to his own mistake he's also to throw his two players under the bus to an extent so but maybe it's impossible to determine this but if you're able do you get the impression he genuinely means that that he has no regrets or he was trying to protect his players by saying that or that he was perhaps trying to protect himself by saying that.
The thing is he kind of lost me in that press conference when he described Shelton Cockinakis as the greatest Davis cut match there's ever been in a two out of three format so he's basically saying in the last five years since the Davis Cup changed format and went to best of three everywhere that's the greatest Davis cut match ever and I kind of just thought did you see the first set like there was oh frankly any of it like I know it was dramatic it
the it really was dramatic at the end but that was not a high quality tennis match. It was a pretty deluded thing to say like if you genuinely think that so that makes me think he's protecting those players because he's got Ben Shelton sitting right next to him as you say and he wants to
kind of paint that as a positive like okay you lost but what an amazing effort you were involved in this absolutely incredible match and look I can't say that I would do anything differently if I was sitting next to someone like it's a very hard position to be in so I do think there probably
was a large element of trying to protect those players but I don't know there was part of me that did that did think he genuinely thought that you know he that those were the right decisions he said Shelton had been practicing brilliantly or weak and you know Paul was sitting next to him as
well and he kind of he really made the case for Shelton over Paul and then he said that they were kind of what he said is they wanted to catch the Australians by surprise that was his big idea of like this is this is how we're going to beat Australia we're going to surprise them with Shelton
and Paul and hew it absolutely absolutely squash that he said no we weren't surprised at all we saw them doing drills or we con the practice court with Paul and Shelton and like how can you how can you surprise when you're sharing the courts and passing each other and all the teams are
looking at each other like Australians are not stupid like they know that that's a possible option like obviously we I was surprised we were surprised but we're not privy to those those sort of drills and practice sessions that are happening and yeah like it just came across as very very
kind of unconvincing from Bob Bryant in a way it's even more shade to be throwing at the two players isn't it because you're saying no no I don't regret my decisions at all I got them absolutely right I they screwed it up well maybe yeah yeah it's a good point yeah and and I just
I do feel uncomfortable about the whole raggie vram element to this like that is two years where he's kind of been screwed you know like he absolutely should have been part of that team two years ago and you have to say now like he absolutely should have been on the court today and
I I I I asked Bob Bryant how he would have felt as a as a doubles specialist the doubles player if singles guys had been chosen over him like I thought he would then launch this big defense of of doubles like that was his that was his thing like you'd think that he would really favor
those guys and and value the understanding that they have together and where they knowing how to move as a team and all the things that Paul and Shelton just couldn't really do you'd think that he would really see the value of that and and choosing ram and cry check and honestly he didn't
really answer that that question he he he just sort of completely talked around it and and said that he'd been talking to a lot of coaches and we don't make these decisions without a lot of information and I'm kind of like yeah I know that I know all this but I'm just wondering how you
how you how you would have felt like and you know how of how a cry check and ram going to be feeling right now they've come all this way to play Davis Cup their moment is here a deciding a deciding doubles and they're not and they're not selected and ahead of them are selected a guy
who's just lost and the guy who hasn't played like they must they must be absolutely crushed like we know ram desperately loves this competition and wants to play and he was so gutted two years ago I would have loved to have been able to speak to ram today but unfortunately players
to run I don't know if it's true unfortunately players we don't play are not brought to press so we couldn't we couldn't ask him but I mean what a what a situation did he he he didn't deflect the question quite as dramatically as he did I didn't ask you it a question and he answered it anyway
well let me first of all say that the first question I asked was a stat that I was working on it was a work in progress stat but I was comfortable enough with it that I went with it in the press conference and I have since confirmed it this was the first time that Australia have won a Davis
Cup tie in which Alex Dimonore has played and lost I think that's a really big moment for them because all throughout the last four or five years they've been relying on Alex Dimonore his form and when they've come up against teams with a really good number one Italy last year Canada
the year before and Dimonore hasn't been able to win his singles they've lost and not even really been able to take it to the doubles where they're all so strong so it was crucial for Australia that they evolved as a team into a team that had a good number two a number two who was capable
of backing up to Dimonore and they hadn't been that until Cock and I could stepped up today so that's a landmark moment I think for this this Australian team and I ask you about that and and he answered that nicely he said look it was finally time to repay Alex after all the great
service he's given us and I'm glad that we could do that today so I've had a nice quite a nice interaction with Layton Hewitt I thought great I'll go in with my with my slightly more difficult question albeit it's not for you Layton and you were very specific about that I was very specific
about that I said for Matthew and Jordan as a general rule would you rather play a doubles team or two singles players coming together because that was the story of the day that was the crux of the question you know the crux of this tie really I was so proud so I thought it was a I thought
it was an innocent enough question and Layton Hewitt just jumps in doesn't even allow no Ebtan and Thompson to get a word in and he says we don't care we play whoever thanks we're all good for now thank you to which I said I wasn't asking you I was asking the doubles players can I can I hear from them and he said no we're all good thank you and just sort of sat there and Ebtan Ebtan sort of leaned towards the mic and looked over at Hewitt and here it was like telling him not
to say anything. I was just like what is what is there to be so chippy about like you've just won? Yeah I mean it was very revealing moment about sort of his his um captaincy I suppose and the vibe in in that team and the the deference towards the captain um but I don't understand it I don't understand why why that was a hot bottom issue that he felt the need to intervene over like what was the most controversial thing that Matt Ebtan and Jordan Thompson could have said in
response to that question. I suppose that one thing might be to give away something to future opponents about what they prefer I suspect they would have just not answered it like that I suspect that they would have talked around it and said yeah well they're a pros and cons you know obviously a two you know something like that. They used the tournament of being too woke yeah.
Yeah in Jordan Thompson's case maybe yes um but it is interesting that he maybe just didn't trust them to do that and just jumped in and pulled the barriers up it's it's it's it's siege mentality stuff and and I think it does suit him. Just just very quickly because we've got another tide to talk about and a tide to preview for tomorrow but team USA have been less than the sum of their
parts for a long time now. It's not good enough is it there are there's a is there a serious issue here is there a toxicity at the heart of that Davis cup team you know you read out that I'd forgotten about that Tommy Paul tweet about Rajiv Ram and doubles in general that got deleted you know those two being on the same team like not that specifically but is there something just slightly
rotten here that's that's curdling. It's a good question look without without knowing the players and being in that team room we can only speculate but like the signs are there that there's definitely there definitely seems to be a split between the singles guys who we know are close like we know
that that group that generation are all close and that's great you know that there's something there for them to work with um and and the doubles players and I think they kind of almost like tried to explain it away in in in 2022 because they had Jack sock and Jack sock was such a good doubles
player that you know he he was kind of part of the gang he was kind of one of the boys but he was also a good doubles player and like was very good at partnering with kind of anyone that didn't work on that occasion they lost as I said two years ago but it wasn't like outrageous that you would
play sock and someone else as a doubles pair I think it was outrageous not to bring Ram but it wasn't outrageous that you would play sock and someone else um they haven't reached the semi final since since 2018 um which which is quite a long time considering as I said the number of players that
they have there is something to be said for like when you have a lot of options it it is more difficult for the captain because the captain has to make decisions and when you've when you've got you know personalities maybe clashing a little bit and maybe a bit of a divided dressing room
and you've got options to make like I do think it is a proper role being the US Davis Cup captain you could say oh it's easy you got you got loads of players and you've got the best players you'll be fine but it's maybe it's maybe easier for captains where it's obvious who they're who
they're one and two is going to be and who their doubles team is and you would say it's not obvious for the US like there are you can make cases for lots of different players and yeah so I do I do take that and I do absolutely take David's point right at the start of the pod like it is easy
for us to sit here and say oh what a terrible decision when you know we're not seeing what is happening on the court but you just try and look through everything and it does seem like this was a this was a real mess and look we celebrate the when the results come off it's just the results
are not coming so you know yeah yeah okay Australia through to the semi finals where they will face Italy we'll talk about them in part two my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his
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Argentina against Italy three straight sets matches the two singles pretty one sided the first of them for Francisco surrender though four and one over Lorenzo Mazzetti this for me was kind of result in school line wise well perhaps perhaps not result although I definitely would have
backed Mazzetti to win but school line wise the shock of the day I was pretty startled by how poor that ended up being from Mazzetti especially as he started off okay like it's not like he got out of the wrong side of the bed I thought early signs were really good for Mazzetti I was texting
the group you know drooling over his sliced backhand and then it it all just fell away it yeah and he wasn't there in the second set like in that first set as you said it was nip and tuck he was maybe slightly the better player but he he fell down a break but he got the
break back and it was four all and and the atmosphere was absolutely awesome inside the stadium the two sets of fans both so passionate both bringing that passion in a way that we absolutely love to see for all and then Mazzetti just absolutely fell apart like lost his serve
meekly lost the set and just was a total no show in the second set and whatever he tried just just didn't come off and Surundalo absolutely grew in confidence and he was awesome in that second set he's got such a big forehand he was flattening out the backhand as
well and pushing Mazzetti around dominating the points and look we know it's not Mazzetti's best surface you know a quick indoor hardcore like the slice can be effective as we saw like that that shot can stay low but he does like he does like time on the ball Mazzetti and he doesn't he didn't get
that but it was the way his head just dropped I thought that the year the year he's had I thought he would be a bit fangy I thought we'd see some of that from Mazzetti that we've seen on the tour this was Mazzetti of old it was it really was did you feel that David yeah yeah and actually I
think the surface is a real problem I think it's just not his favourite I think he he doesn't get any of the benefits of his game really from it he it doesn't take the spin in the what in the same way it favors people who just can blast through it and he can do that occasionally
sort of spectacularly but he's almost like the the US his game is like the US Davis Cup captain he's got all these options isn't necessarily you know which one to pick and and he's got to be right on it if he's going to put it together whereas Surundalo he knows exactly what he is he's a
more basic player he's got a plan A any any any and he just tries to perfect it and he and he he's been in really good form in this competition he was really good in those in those September matches and and I I did I favored Surundalo from the moment that time was announced I mean it just made
me think back to your your tactics talk last night about making sure you put buyers in because you know that that's not really a winnable match you've got to target the second one and you want Surundalo in that match and and he absolutely I mean you're right it was close first set but he
he was so convincing today all the way through Surundalo and and he gave them a real chance you know in the in the tires a hole I mean I don't think I've seen a more formality of a match than the second one we had with Janic Senna and Sebastian buyers but no I thought tactically Argentina
did all the right things and and they weren't too far away maybe Giammokorea listened to last night's tennis broadcast he doesn't age does he it's unreal I mean it's it's 20 odd years so he played Raffa on the down he still looks to say rage yeah he really does yeah um so out goes Sebastian
buyers the sacrificial lamb to get tunked by Janic Senna but that was the plan that was the plan for Argentina and a fantastic plan it was totally the right thing to do perfectly called by you thank you yeah it's nice to get something right because I feel like I've got a lot of things
wrong over the last week but you know you are trying to read the minds of these captains and and just think about what logically makes sense and that just stood out to me Surundalo and as I said it was lining up their one and two like so it wasn't like a controversial thing
but yeah so Rundalo in that slot always made sense to me even if poor old Sebastian buyers was the sacrificial lamb so how controversial was it for you to see Beratini and Senna selected for the doubles now the picks at the start of the day and you don't know when the teams aren't
inputted that the captain has to name the doubles team at the start of the whole tie and we never really know whether those are actual decisions that they've made which they have the right to change but they are proactive decisions or whether they're just shoving names in and they'll make the actual
decision later on or reveal the actual decision later on but the names that were inputted by the captain at the start of the tie were the doubles team it was Balele and Vavassori now obviously Janik Senna was an integral part of the doubles team that carried
Dissid to glory last year but he was alongside Sonnego that time like that was one of the the revelations of last year's Davis Cup Janik Senna and Lorenzo Sonnego as a pair they struck a they struck gold with those two and there's no Sonnego this year and obviously Janik Senna
is still the best tennis player in in the world but he's not an actual doubles player and it didn't it certainly didn't seem totally obvious that Senna and Baratini would be the picks here and also I think the difference compared to last year was Sinna and Sonnego didn't come up
against an established doubles team they played Coolhoff and Greaksport you know Coolhoff obviously a very very good doubles player he wasn't in as good form last year as he seems to be in now but still very good player and Greaksport they make a good team even if they're not
like an established partnership and then they also played Jockovicson Ketsmanavic she would quite funny very funny and just you know Ketsmanavicson absolutely terrified of no that Jockovicson and just not a vibe really and Sinna and Sonnego were brilliant and they also
had the momentum because Sinna had just beaten Jockovicson through match points down but here they had to take on a team Gonzales and Molteni so that was a difference and Ravassori and Bollelli reached a couple of slam finals this year we're at the ATP finals where they won a match you know
just a couple of weeks ago so like they they're a good team so I don't think it would have been I don't think it would have been a surprise to me had they stuck with Vassori and Bollelli I you know I think that's probably what I was expecting but there was just this nagging
feeling in the back of my mind you know if Italy go out here they lose when they're favorites to win the Davis Cup and they've left Yannick Sinna out when he could have been playing surely that is going to be you know there's going to be a lot of questions asked about that by the Italian press
considering what we saw Sinna do on the doubles court last year like he's just played he's just one he's in the most phenomenal form imaginable surely you want him on the court I guess I didn't see a an obvious option for him to play with because of the lack of Sonnego I thought maybe he might
sub in for one of Bollelli and Pavasori so I was a bit surprised that it was Beratini who who came in but it worked because they won and then that's that's the difference compared to to poor Bob Brian like Valandria's picked a team there that's won and he's been vindicated it is it's it's
it's kind of that simple like it is just about the results it's a results business as they say and it like they weren't like head and shoulders above there were two pretty tight sets but they they timed their searches brilliantly breaking right at the end of each set and it was like
they sort of lit one another and decided okay we'll break here yeah well just let's let's knuckle down here let's up it now yeah let's have the intensity let's impose ourselves and for Gonzales and Maltini like you know I'm kind of thinking about that question I asked
to Edden and Thompson like would they rather have seen Vavasori and Bollelli who they are kind of known quantity to them I think they'd have rather have seen Bollelli and Vavasori than the best player in the world those four like and Baratini was playing out of his mind as it points in this match
me his forehand was a joke and but he was getting clean back and return winners David he was Baratini and actually I mean those that Maltini and Gonzales that their Vollen was was extraordinary but it was blowing self-defense you know because they are facing shots there they just I mean
look the doubles players hit the ball really hard don't get me wrong but I don't think we really appreciate how hard Baratini and Sina can hit the ball until they play doubles because they've got these these targets they're not having to worry about trying to get the ball in it on a six
pence in the corner they're just drilling it down a straight out them a lot of the time it's frightening how hard they can hit the ball when they really decide to flatten it out and go for it and I I sort of talked to myself into this on on yesterday's show that that Matt and I
recorded previewing this tie I've suddenly made myself feel quite emotional about Matteo Baratini I feel quite invested in him personally being a part and a crucial part of this Italian Davis Cup team and well you've got your wish because he's going to be a big part
now right right I find it very hard to see Lorenzo Mazzetti being picked again for single what for anything quite frankly I think that might be Lorenzo's tournament done Baratini would have to have a Roberto Bautista-Gullo level practice session I think tomorrow to fill Lorenzo Mazzetti's
standard chance of being picked but no Matteo Baratini I was reminded yesterday by Matt he showed up at the Davis Cup finals last year to support the Italian team and to be a part of the Italian team on the sidelines even though at that point he was barely a tennis player he had been struck
down with the latest of his curses and it must have broken his heart a bit to be there and to be part of it but also absolutely not part of it at all and to not know if he'd ever get to be part of something like that this is somebody that has tasted highs of tennis he's tasted
what tennis what success has to offer but never been able to you know drink from the cup really because look I do think he's a limited tennis player in terms of the very operational on's you know he's not he's never had the potential of Yanic Sinner and that's nothing to do with
having had bad luck or been cursed but he could have had a whole lot more you know he has been woefully unlucky and I think he you know he feels that very deeply and yet I don't think he can't resound a chip on his shoulder I don't get that impression but I do think he carries around a
certain sort of emotional heaviness and I think I think it would be tremendously meaningful and emotional for Matteo Baratini to be part of an Italian Davis Cup winning team this year and I like to think of somebody winning it to whom it would be the best thing they've ever done
they're most proud achievement and I think you know there's still time in Matteo Baratini's career left but it's very hard to think that the best isn't behind him now which is a sad thing to say because he's he's I was going to say he's not even 30 but I think he's a way off 30 yet but
it's just hard not to feel that way so I suspect that if he were to be a part of a winning Italian team this year that would end up being the crowning moment of his career and I think I think that would probably well I don't know maybe I'm maybe I'm putting words into his mouth too much but I
think that would end up being enough you know I think I think that would help him sleep at night post-retirement I think it would help him deal with the with the curses it's one of the it's one of the nice things I think about the teams that are remaining because I actually think there's only
Yannick Sinner that I wouldn't feel that about to be I mean obviously Baratini is an extreme of that because of all the bad luck he's had but if you think of Australia with with all of their players and and the Dutch you know they're they're not going to win grand centitles those players
the good players but they're not you know the German team without Sverif this any one of these teams that that actually ends up winning the thing Sinner aside you're going to have somebody who's career is just made it's a great point absolutely so yeah I've made this up emotional
that my team just before we move on can I just ask one question today what's today done for doubles players and doubles teams was it a good day for them or is it a bad day for them because on the one hand like I think it's probably net even because on the one hand like Ebtan
and Thompson getting that win that felt like a you know that felt like a check in their column I'm yeah I read slightly less into the whole into the second tie because of Yannick Sinner the best pair in the world right and and that feels a bit different but just generally like
the fact that they keep being chunted like feels like a loss for them like it it doesn't feel like there's a you know like the Davis Cup has been has been reformatted you know to make doubles the the deciding match and often you do get to the deciding match and you have doubles players in
the team and they don't play and yeah I don't know it's just I just find it interesting like it's obviously a case by case thing it does depend a little bit on on the team and and the singles options that you have but I don't know that just felt like quite a moment to me with the US
going going for those singles players and that combination of singles players over that doubles team I think without question the optimum scenario in both the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup is what the Italian Billie Jean King Cup team had their number one singles player who
is also part of one of the best doubles teams in the world they it doesn't need to be two brilliant singles players who are a great doubles team but Paulini with Irani I think that's that's the dream but of course in in men's tennis it is so much rarer for the top players to play doubles
if not completely elusive quite frankly so you're just not going to have that so much and I think it's going to be I think doubles players are going to be shafted more in in Davis Cup rightly or wrongly and I think I think what's tough to take is is most teams want to flirt with the doubles
most teams bring double specialists and want to be seen to be valuing and prioritising that but quite often when it comes to it they are getting shafted but you know maybe what happened to the US team today maybe that will be a little cautionary child don't know we'll see
uh folks we got a semi final to look ahead to you tomorrow and we'll do that after this the holidays are all about sharing with family meals couches stories grandma secret Pcan pie recipe and now you can also share a card with instacarts family cards everyone can add
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switch forty five dollars up from payment equivalent to fifteen dollars per month new customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees extra speeds lower above forty gigabyte ct tail welcome back to the tennis podcast where we look ahead now to the first Davis Cup semi final and
enormous opportunity for germany and for the Netherlands one of those two teams one of those two nations will be Davis Cup finalists in a couple of days time and David i think that enormity of opportunity could kind of be the story tomorrow who who cope to that who handles it maybe the
that'll be a factor in in the teams the captains picks although i suspect for for the Netherlands the the picks are fairly obvious but perhaps for germany two after the first time but goodness me that the magnitude of that opportunity is is gonna win packs and players tomorrow i think
yeah in a way i'm looking forward to it as much as i was looking forward to australia in the us in a different way though because because of the land of opportunity and because of the the fact that these players are not players you would tend to see in a grand samcourt of final lineup
with a chance to go all the way at a at a major and in tennis terms this being for their country this is kind of like one of those or or semi-finely even and i look at the actual players struff and ultmire assuming it's them and and vandesansial and and greaks poor i mean
what a day they've got come in for them and i do think a lot of it is going to be ever how they handle it that they're all good players but none of them are absolute standouts where you say okay well that's the one who should definitely get a point it doesn't feel like that i actually think
i do believe in struff i think he is likely to deliver his team a point just because i think he's reliable but but then it can be much better but he does get tight he just get tight though he does greaks poor greaks poor gets tight i i have struff and greaks poor on my getting tight watch list
yeah although we used to think burtuk vandesansial got tight didn't we he did and like he could be a clad he could just turn up and throw in an absolute jack draper-esque performance he's you know he's just gone beaten raffa underdow and
it wouldn't be that surprising if he just went and messed it up and and then ultmire spoke about his nerves the other day oh no i mean he that that stuff you were telling us about ultmire was fascinating just just hearing about how nervous he was but i i think our favor germany in it's
overall because i because i think struff will end up getting the win and they'll get another point from somewhere whether that whether it's from the second one or not or whether they have to get the doubles then i think the doubles is is a close one but that i'd go germany a deciding doubles
you know we always say it but like would be really interesting because kravitz and puts haven't always played together in in in davis cup they have quite a lot but like they've only ever lost one match like no matter who they're playing with they've only ever lost one match and that was
that was the one that i mentioned a few days ago two years ago when they lost to chapa valov and and pospa sill they've got and they've got a phenomenal record but kuhof and vandazanskuh were awesome the other day then really good kuhof was just magical and there's you
know he could he's got his career on the line hasn't he you know he's trying to he's trying to extend his career and and that seemed to help him the other day but whether it comes with a pressure tomorrow we'll see i do think vandazanskuh is a favorite in that in that first singles to be
altmeyer i think i'd absolutely take the point about you know he didn't back up the khalas al-Khra's performance can he back up the rafanadal performance um sometimes we think of characters like ben shaltman as being the kind of people that you want in the davis karp lot of energy a lot of vibe but you know maybe sometimes someone with vandazanskuh helps demeanor and and energy is kind of what you want as well that that very low heart rate that that just taking the match as it is not building it
up as this huge occasion you know that can maybe be pretty effective as well so i would i would take him in that and that to me makes the second match interesting i always find it interesting what the first match does to the second match you know who ends up playing with a bit more pressure
i don't know like if greek spores one nil up does he get less tight or more tight you know he like if he'd have the chance to win it for the netherlands which seems like something that might cause quite a lot of stress but equally he's got the kind of safety net of knowing that they're one
nil up and if he loses it's not all over like so i think that dynamic will come into play and in in the second match with two very good reliable players but as we say two players who do get tight i think i'm favoring the dutch they've also got that massive crowd yeah which can help them i
think you know in a way that the germans you know they've got they've got fans here but not an orange wall which we're expecting again for the netherlands so it's tight it's really really tight and it could go both ways but i'm personally i'm just leaning towards the dutch i'm favoring
the dutch in quite a big way where's it called it's so good um i just think i i think it will go to the doubles i think you're favoring the dutch even with it going to the doubles see i think i'm favoring the dutch in the singles i mean it might just this might just be total recency bias like
cravets and puts haven't played yet so i haven't seen them and seen how good they are like i i conceptually and objectively know that they are great but i i saw cool hoff and vandals and school plus night a couple of nights ago do something incredibly special and it just felt irresistible
with that orange wall and i'm yeah that that is powering me to that prediction i think it will go to the the doubles and if it does i would feel i would feel quite strongly for the dutch but but i realised that's probably a not a hugely rational pick like on paper this is pretty much a 50-50
but yeah just totally seduced by boutique vandals and school it's the story of my way you too become a boutique people imagine the only four hours time we're sitting here like oh boutique was terrible which is absolutely the applause of lost an r a
yeah yeah okay folks we'll be back with the podcast at the end of it all there are three more days of the davis cup two semifinals one final three more podcasts still to come we have fee b our davis cup and billy jean king cup mascot hello fee b feels about time that i posted a picture
fee b on our instagram i will i will do that thank you fee b thank you pre anchor thank you to of course our mascots the daily departed Darwin hydrant soma got me gloating to do for them today man no no quite the opposite like david i went with the uf's oh dear bob brine let me down tough
scene for hydrosoma and frances hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg chris jamey and jeff of course hello to billy jean and billy jean king elana claus as well squirrel hello billy jean that was for billy jean i will mix up it's one o'clock in the morning mat we have shout out save me
we have fiona magrega in edimbra i was going to say fiona magrega has to be in scotland somewhere hello fiona yeah and davids come up with fiona fero very good any magregas other than you and and conner not seen then we'd tell his records edimbra is a wonderful city where i went
for an ill-fated champion store event once is that the one with the with the roof issues yes they they had a custom made roof for the court and it didn't fit well no it sort of fit it looked very good but it was precisely the same size as as the court and of course it rained
the kids Scotland sorry sorry fiona if that's insulting your country but you know we're all brits we can we can talk about the rain so yes of course it rained and frankly that was why they had the custom the custom roof made because of the likelihood of rain but of course rain
so rarely falls exactly vertically and it was frankly an absolute disaster but a very amusing one thank you fiona for allowing me to relive that that's lovely memory next up we've got christianne in new brunswick in canada hello christianne how we spell in christianne as in is it christianne
with a hyphen no it's like christianne with an e on the end very good i i i think we're going to struggle i think that's a pretty jacolaine christian okay nearly yeah same church different you yeah same yeah yeah i think david's done well for that christianne yeah yeah and christianne
is well a big rough on the dal fan and heartbroken about the dal's retirement tennis will never be the same oh dear there's a lot of people who feel like that when their favorite player retires they just they're really struggled to find the next player
it's a lot hope you're alright christianne i feel you and finally we have catherin lao in sydney hello catherin what puy are we talking here next to you on the same puy what a puy what do we know about excellent catherin uh catherin has been listening
for five years to the pod and she says the pod has really allowed me to stay across tennis especially in the last ten months as a new mother i have to stop myself from giggling at times when feeding or trying to get the little one back to sleep oh congratulations catherin 10 months you can
you can say congratulations after 10 months can't you yeah um yeah congratulations um with your your child your baby is sort of listening to us by osmosis yeah training the next generation catherin christianne and fiona thank you ever so much thank you to all of our friends
of the tennis podcast if you're liking these davis cup podcasts and you like the davis cup we're going to be recording our final tennis relived show of the year next week and it will focus on davis cup memories davis cup moments we've got voice notes flooding in it's going to be a really
special show to round off the series for 2024 so if you'd like to become a friend and be able to listen to that the link is in our show notes mine might be about today i've had such a good time today it matches sort of like copying and pasting the contents of the show and so we are going to
have to write a constitution for tennis relived which explicitly states a statute of limitations or the reverse of a statute of limitations for time that has to have elapsed before you can relive something that's been in the in the 2029 edition of probably longer than a week
yeah although i would i'd happily listen to you talk about today again quite frankly man it's been electric folks thanks for listening it will speak to you tomorrow you've been waiting all year and the moment is finally here boolean branch is the betting brand for better sleep and their best sale
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