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Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast on the 15th and final day of the Australian Open 2025. I'm Catherine Whittaker. I'm joined by David Law. Hello, David. Hello. Hello. Goodness me. Another Grand Slam has come and gone. And here we are. Yeah. Two weeks older than we were two weeks ago. And yet it feels like more somehow. Matt Roberts is here. Matt from the tennis podcast who knows these things. Hello, Matt. That is how I shall henceforth be known.
Although the predictions competition would suggest otherwise. But I don't know things. Yes, for anybody that doesn't know, that is how Matt was credited on the Eurosport coverage of tonight's men's singles final, which was won by Yannick Sinner over Alexander Zverev. 6-3, 7-6, 6-3. Sinner becoming a three-time Grand Slam champion and a two-time Australian Open champion, defending a Grand Slam title for the...
first time and cementing himself as the best hardcourt player in the world, potentially by some distance. We're going to talk about the match and all the associated controversies and big picture stuff over the course of the next hour. It is now 2.15am, which is a fitting way to record our final podcast of the Australian Open, I think, in the small hours of the morning.
Exhausted. And we've outlasted the Spanish press. It's a bad sign, isn't it? It's a bad sign slash a badge of honour. Yes. Yeah, we needed to be the last one standing at the Australian Open. It's only fitting, isn't it? So, yes, we'll get into the match in just a moment's time. But first...
A word from our sponsor. The Tennis Podcast has been brought to you throughout the Australian Open by our friends at Steve Fergal's International Tennis Tour. One for the road, folks. Your gateway to premium tennis events worldwide. I joined him with the end. He never got there, did he? That was the Alexander Zverev of ad reads, David.
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always something to look forward to. And for us, that something now, other than going to sleep, is Roland Garros 2025. I'm looking forward to sitting on Longland with David, hearing Matt sing along with La Marseillaise and eating tout le fromage. I can't wait. It's only a few months away. And unlike us in our quirky Airbnb with a...
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Now, back to the real Alexander Zverev, and a match that was described by the Herald Sun, one of the prominent newspapers in Australia, as a bloodbath. And David thinks that's an understatement. Am I right? Well, I mean, the other thing I heard it described as by my colleague Russell Fuller on the BBC, just in sort of wrapping up the match, was a stinker.
And I absolutely think that that was apt as well. I mean, I really didn't think it was gripping at all the second set for a little bit, but not for very long. I do find it quite interesting as to whether a view of a match differs depending on where you see it. And I think that that has been my experience in the past at times.
And where I was was court level in the commentary box just a few feet away from the server from one end. And where you're sitting is halfway up the stadium seats, aren't you? It's a great vantage point, but looking down on it. Other people obviously listening to this will have watched it on TV. And I think those three vantage points can give you a different view. It can change your mind whether you're listening to the commentary or not. These are all things.
I thought it was a really boring match, and I think that Alexander Zverev was terrible. I really just think he never got going at all. And I thought he came out with no feel, no confidence, and really just... I thought he was worse than in his other Grand Slam finals. I mean, maybe the Dominic team match, he might have been better than that. It's so long ago, I can't remember.
But, I mean, I don't think Sinner was that great. I mean, he was good in the first set, I thought. I thought Zverev's level brought him down in the second set, and it was just a grind. And then Sinner took over again in the third set. But right towards the end of the first set, the body language of Zverev told me, I have got no timing here.
I am not feeling the ball at all. He was going up to his support team, his dad. He was agitated between them. I don't know what they were saying, but the body language was one of panic, desperation. It's like, what's going on? I thought I was going to come in and play well here, and I'm playing like this. And I thought he was missing regulation backhands. He has got the best backhand in men's tennis, I think, usually.
so reliable and he was missing rally balls he was he was not even really fine in the middle of the strings sometimes and i just couldn't understand it he had no confidence or conviction whatsoever matt as david says you and i were sat in a different vantage point what was what was your take on the match
Similar, really. I think I did come out of it thinking that Yannick Sinner had played pretty well. You know, we kind of said, didn't we, our little potted summary of our takes going into this match was Sinner will be hoping to outplay Zverev and Zverev will be hoping to outlast Sinner.
And I was shocked by the degree to which Sinner outplayed Zverev here. Like, it was a total mismatch. It was far from Yannick Sinner's toughest match of the tournament, you know, and he was up against the number two seed. And, you know, I think the game that Sinner broke in the first set was kind of... like a nice summary of the match, really. You know, Zverev, I think, was serving with new balls in that game, but got broken, forehand errors. That was absolutely brilliant.
Sinner, backhand passing shot up the line at full stretch, very Kim Kleisters-esque, Novak Djokovic-esque, you know, that sliding shot that he has absolutely perfected. But then there was, on the break point, a very, very tentative approach from Alexander Zverev and Sinner passed him with the forehand this time.
That was kind of it. Like I said yesterday, is Verev going to be a new player in this Grand Slam final? Like he was talking about last season, like how he clearly, I do think he knows that he needs to be more aggressive. He needs to impose his game, but he's just, he's incapable of doing it. You know, I think he's, and today was the clearest example yet. He didn't have his timing. He wasn't.
going after the ball with any conviction and you know Sinner served very well in that first set but actually his first serve percentage for the match I think was below 60% Sinner he was very very effective behind that first serve but he was giving Zverev some looks at second serve and yet Zverev wasn't really doing anything with them of note Sinner didn't even face a break point in the entire match which is
Extraordinary for a Grand Slam final. I think Federer didn't face a breakpoint against Mark Filipousis in that Wimbledon final. Nadal didn't face one against Kevin Anderson in that US Open final.
This was the number one seed against the number two seed, and it's one of the only times that there's ever been in a men's Grand Slam final where someone hasn't faced a break point. That's how one-sided and straightforward it was for Sinner. There were little moments of jeopardy for him in that second set. We saw him clutching his hamstring at one point. He had to sort of...
fight to hold on to his serve at 4-5 he was love 30 down at 5-6 it was 30 all but you know sinner has that quote doesn't he i like to dance in a pressure storm and he in in the in the crucial moments today he he came up with the bigger better tennis he the point he played at that 30 all 5-6 was
utterly extraordinary. My biggest regret of the evening is not getting to listen to David's commentary of that point on BBC Radio because I just know it was epic. We immediately got texts about it and you just know that David did that point justice. My mum loved it. That bit woke me up. It woke the crowd up though. Yeah, because it was flat. It was an absolutely extraordinary
point from Sinner he he he drop shot lobbed Zverev didn't he but then the point went on well after that and he ended up having to hit a a running passing shot and it was just an eruption of noise from the crowd and and he played those big moments including then the tie break better but there weren't that many of the big moments otherwise it was just the kind of routine I'm better than you performance and and he did look Sinner finished that point with an incredible flourish it was brilliant but
Zverev had had several chances to end that point, to finish it at the net, and he just couldn't lay the hammer down, couldn't he? And that's the story of Zverev in this match and kind of the story of Zverev. I think why I come down slightly differently on Zverev's performance in this match is that I don't think this was Zverev not showing up. I think this was just Zverev being Zverev and being exposed.
But he's played better against Yannick Sinner than this. He has played better against Yannick Sinner. I mean, Cincinnati last year, you know, you look at even just the stats line. I know stats can be misinterpreted because they're an opinion about whether they're unforced errors or not. But he hit more winners than unforced errors against him in Cincinnati. Tonight, he hit 25 winners to 45 unforced errors, Zverev. I mean, that's terrible, I think.
As Matt said, not even a break point. I truly think this was a regressive match. I don't mean it'll necessarily happen forever, but I think tonight it was terrible. Yeah, I don't think this was a good performance by Alexander Zverev. I really don't. I'm not defending this performance. I guess... I just... I think Zverev would still have...
one with this level of tennis against a lot of players like I've seen him play this kind of tennis and beat players where I'm watching thinking this shouldn't be happening like he does have a remarkable skill of making opponents somehow shit the bed against him yeah and look that you know that is a way of winning tennis matches and there are lots of great but you know I think Andy Murray is has been really
good at that so I should be using the past tense here Andy Murray was was really good at that you know all all the greats have a way of of not allowing their opponent to to play their best or putting the seed of doubt in their mind at the at the critical moments so I guess I just Zverev not looking hugely convincing or commanding in a tennis match for me isn't necessarily the marker of
how successful Alexander Zverev is going to be on a tennis court. But you just can't do that against somebody of Yannickson's quality. I just felt like that was totally exposed tonight as something that will only work up to a certain level of opponent and is just never going to work on this kind of stage against the very best. Yeah, I think that that's what's been shown in his run to the French Open final when he was 4-1 down to Greeksport and he sort of survived.
And he is an incredible survivor. Yeah. And that is a skill. He really is. And you're right. I mean, then they get nervous and that's that. But Sinner is a proper player. And Sinner has really become extremely good against, you know, his fellow top players now.
with the one exception kind of being Carlos Alcaraz. You know, he's won his two hard-court majors very recently, the US Open and the Australian Open, back-to-back. And his opponents in the latter stages have been Medvedev, Draper, Fritz, Runa, Dimonor, Shelton, Zverev. Like, that category of player now, at the majors, on a hard-court, Sinner is just...
beating pretty easily, routinely now. He's won 22 sets in a row against top 10 players. On a hard court? They've all been on a hard court, but that is 22 sets in a row now. He's on a current streak of 22 sets in a row against top 10 players. That's extraordinary. And he's claimed 10 consecutive straight sets wins over top 10 players. Now, the exception there is that
those matches haven't been including Carlos Alcaraz. You know, he kind of has been the one guy over the last year. You know, he had that 3-0 head-to-head record against Sinner last year. But Carlos Alcaraz has not been able to be as effective against everyone else in the way that Yannick Sinner is. It's a kind of, it's a classic tennis tale, really. Like, that match-up has started to go in Alcaraz's favour and he really brings it when he plays Sinner recently. But...
Sinner is just making short work of everyone else on the ATP Tour, and that's why he's constantly getting himself into finals in a way that Carlos Alcarez isn't right now. And yes, the extreme highest high of Carlos Alcarez might be higher, but the week-in, week-out consistency and the reliability in these matches...
Yannick Sinner has got it at the moment, especially on a hard court. And yeah, to kind of bring it back to Zverev, Zverev give a performance like that, it will get him through against Tommy Paul in the quarterfinals because Tommy Paul didn't finish those sets off. But Yannick Sinner's not going to make that mistake. He's too good. He's so good. Just to say, most of you will be aware that there was an incident during the on-court...
presentation tonight, just before Alexander Zverev's runners-up speech. We will be covering that. We'll be covering it in part two. Don't worry. We're going to stay on the match for now. And some of the comments that were made by both players after the match, sort of the Djokovic-ian status and level from Yannick Sinner tonight was a big topic of conversations. Zverev was asked whether...
whether he would compare what he's seeing and facing from Yannick Sinner at the moment to peak Djokovic. Matt queries whether Zverev actually ever played peak Djokovic and whether he is in fact qualified to comment on this. But Zverev said, yeah.
Sinner is very, very similar to Novak at his best. He barely misses and he makes you overhit. He doesn't give you any space or any time. He's like prime Novak. It's so difficult to go through him. And I'm increasingly struck by that when I watch Yannick Sinner. His rally tolerance with explosivity, with injection, is unmatched at the moment. I mean, Carlos Alcaraz...
doesn't win his matches that way. He's got more explosivity and more razzle-dazzle. But in terms of that rally tolerance, he would give a lot for a bit of what Yannick Sinners got going. Yeah, I mean, he's a nightmare. Where do you go? Where do you attack him? It's becoming the big problem for men's tennis right now. And really, there is...
It feels to me like there is only really Al Kras who's got something that completely discomforts Sinner when Al Kras is at his best because he can bring him forwards. And when he's at his best, he can go toe-to-toe with him as well. He's got the movements and the power. But he's got other stuff, serves and volleys, drop shots, these sort of things. But, yeah, I mean, it's...
it's quite alarming for the rest of the field, how Sinner has separated himself. And that's the Djokovic-ian element of it, because Djokovic has done that, not only stylistically...
But he separated himself in a couple of sort of spells, really, you know, either side of his elbow injury and all that sort of thing. And then he's done it again almost as an older man. And yeah, I mean, it does genuinely feel like the biggest obstacle for Sinner is the Wada case. And obviously Alcaraz. Who else is there? And again, we'll talk about that.
In part two as well, there's a lot of kind of big picture stuff that we are going to get onto. And I think, you know, to be true prime Novak Djokovic, and Sinner's very aware of this himself as well, he needs to be bringing this level on all the surfaces. You know, Novak Djokovic was, you know, and still is. You know, he's won so many big titles on grass and clay as well as hard courts.
But in terms of just him as a player on a hard court, you know, there definitely are a lot of similarities. I think he actually finds it easier to generate pace than Novak Djokovic does. You know, Novak Djokovic, we talked about it the other night, he doesn't look underpowered and he certainly has an incredibly clean head of the ball.
ball can sort of trampoline off his strings when he's really really seeing it Djokovic but he can sometimes look like he really has to to sort of muscle the ball to to actually generate the pace sometimes if he's not quite on his game Sinner
The pace is always there. He's never short of that at all. It's extraordinary because you kind of think, where is it coming from? But it's timing and technique and it's all packaged in there. But I'm going to say it again. Sinner is serving in a way that Djokovic has developed his serve in the latter portion of his career to become so good. Djokovic is now...
Serving like Federer used to, like hitting his spots, coming up with serves when he needs them. But the work Sinner has done on his serve in the last couple of years, changing the technique, and now it is such a weapon. You know, we talked about Carlos Alcaraz would like some of that.
Rally tolerance, and he would like that serve as well. He really would. As I said, I know his percentage wasn't great today, but he barely lost a point on his first serve in that second set. I think it was maybe only one in the entire set. And his second serve's not attackable either. He was well over 60% points won on the second serve, which is huge. And I do think part of that was Verev's passive approach to that. But, yeah, it's really hard to attack him.
We were debating Zverev's assessment of this match, and he's right in that he said Sinner moves better, hits the forehand better, hits the backhand better, returns better, volleys better. He was full of praise for Yannick Sinner, and he's absolutely right to be. I think the point there is that maybe he was covering up some of his own...
shortcomings today by just heaping all the praise on Sinner. I think Sinner was good. I do. I thought he played well tonight. But I do think Zverev could have made this match closer. There was a reason we thought he might be able to outlast him because we thought he'd be able to get it close and keep it close. And he just didn't show up in that way. Those quotes were interesting, weren't they? Because you read them and on the face of it, you think...
wow, Zverev's really owning this. He's not in any denial at all about the gulf between himself and Yannick Zverev. He walks in, he goes, well, I'm just a way inferior tennis player to Yannick Sinner. As you say, he listed all the things that Sinner's better at him at, and he said, I'm better at him on serve, everything else he's got me. Well, on serve tonight, the numbers would suggest actually...
Sinner had his number. But anyway, let's give him the serve. But yeah, he made it about kind of big picture. I just need to somehow get back to work and try and close the gap on Sinner and the others potentially at the top. But David, you viewed that take as sort of a failure to take responsibility. You thought he needed to be more accountable for specifically this performance tonight.
I do, yeah. And I asked him, you start off the match and it's all ahead of you. And he looked confident at the net and the knock-up and all this sort of thing. And I really was going into the match expecting him to play well. I expected him to...
cause Yannick Sinner problems. He always has in the past. He's got a 4-2 record against him. Matt and I watched a 15-minute highlight reel of the Cincinnati final this morning, and I was really taken by how Sinner's shots don't move him in quite the same way. Second time you've done that, David. Overlaid Matt into a memory with me. Sorry, Catherine.
I let it slide the first time. No, Matt and I were watching Albion highlights. I forgot. That's right. And Matt was still in bed. And Kerber Serena. Yeah, we watched Kerber Serena. No, I was out playing tennis. Oh, sorry, yes. You were certainly absent. So we watched that together. It was a fond memory for me, David. You're both my team. What can I say? So it's 7-6 in the third to Sinner. But really...
Zverev is in charge of a lot of the rallies, and when you look at the stats, they're equal. He's hitting more winners than errors in that match, and he's looking huge down the front of the court, and Sinner's not shifting him. So I'm thinking, blimey, when you consider the head-to-head and how he outlasts him as well, and how Sinner's not being quite there this fortnight in some of the matches physically, I'm really expecting a good performance from Zverev, and I'm thinking either Sinner gets him,
But it's a good, close match. Or Zverev outlasts him. And it never felt like that to me today. And I said to him, at what stage did you become concerned about your form in this match? And he didn't answer that in that way. And maybe that's what you do if you're a top player. But I really expected him to say...
based on his body language at the end of the first set, that I was worried about why I couldn't, you know, I can always hit these backhands. Remember he did it against Taylor Fritz in the US Open. He said, for some reason I couldn't hit my backhand today. And it was just as bad, if not worse, today. And he didn't, he was focused on his opponent. Now, maybe it's because he's trying to be sporting and say how good my opponent was, rather than saying I was rubbish. Which, you know, some players do like to do that. And okay, if that is the case.
Fair enough. But I think what he needs to do is reckon with the fact that I think he froze in some way, personally. Because even if he did play that game that beats everybody else, I've seen him step up in the past when he's had to hurt Nadal, hurt Alcaraz, hurt Sinner. And he didn't do that at all tonight. And the other thing is, second set.
I think if Sinner had played the level he can play, I think he'd have won that set 6-2. He had loads of chances and he ended up having to squeak through it. Zverev has now reached three Grand Slam finals, which is a bit of a threshold in men's tennis, isn't it, Matt? Only Kasparud has reached three Grand Slam finals on the ATP side without eventually, as of yet, going on to win one. And all the talk around Zverev, including...
kind of most glowingly tonight from Yannick Sinner is you deserve one. It's only a matter of time before you get one. Djokovic said that the other night, didn't he? He deserves one. I...
This might be me being a sort of semantics grump, but the you deserve one thing I find thoroughly bizarre, especially from people that actually have won a Grand Slam title and know how hard it is. Like, no, you deserve one if you win one. Like, isn't that devaluing your achievement to say that the person that you just beat and has won one fewer match than you?
very specifically has not achieved the thing that you've just achieved. To say that they deserve one, as if you reach enough finals and we'll just give you an honorary one. I do find that a bit bizarre, but I also know it's just kind of what you say. You just feel sorry for him. You feel sorry for him in a sporting context. But nonetheless, that is the general feeling still, I think, around Alexander Zverev. It'll happen eventually.
would suggest it would, although there is a Kasper Rood. Do we think that? What do we think about that? Stats versus kind of what we're seeing with our eyes, or certainly have seen with our eyes today. Well, this certainly wasn't a Andy Murray getting close at moment, was it? You know, I think this was a regression. I agree.
And he's not shown us anything different here in terms of being bolder and stepping up. You know, it was not that at all, this performance. If he'd played that way and lost, I think you could have taken some encouragement from it. But I think it likely goes back to the WADA appeal.
The whole picture of men's tennis changes if Yannick Sinner is out of the picture for some slams. And in particular, I suppose, if he misses a hard court slam, you know, the US Open, for example, has been and I think is traditionally...
the slam where maybe there's some fatigue at the end of the season and you know we've seen Wawrinka win there and Cilic win there and Del Potro win there and Alcaraz win there you know like Murray win there like it hasn't been totally dominated by Fedor Djokovic and Nadal that slam it's just been a little bit more open anyway so
I suppose we can't guarantee that Alcaraz will be at his best come the US Open. We can't guarantee that Djokovic will be at his best come the US Open. And if Sinner's not there, you suddenly end up in a situation where Alexander Zverev would be one of the favourites going into it. And if he didn't have to play one of Sinner, Djokovic or Alcaraz...
I think he can probably win a slam. Yes, I do. Fritz would obviously have something to say about that. Medvedev's got a pretty good record against Zverev, but is declining. But Zverev would absolutely be a contender if that's the picture of men's tennis in a few months' time. Now, whether he could actually get over the line and bring the style of tennis, I don't know. I'm not sure how much of it is about the specific...
opponent that he's facing, or whether it's something about him in these Grandslam finals and in these big moments. I do think it might be that. But there might be a scenario where he's able to play that style of tennis and still beat some of these other guys. There was a bizarre moment in Zverev's press conference where it became apparent that he didn't really know about the WADA appeal.
to the Court of Arbitration for Sport about Sinner's case. He sort of vaguely knew that there was something, but he referenced the ITIA, didn't really know the details and certainly didn't seem to be very aware that it was very possible that Yannick Sinner could be banned from the sport in the coming months, which is for the person on whom it might likely have the biggest impact. I found that.
Very interesting and very surprising. But yeah, look, the CAS appeal is set for April the 16th and the 17th. We don't know exactly how long it'll take for there to be a verdict. A few weeks is most likely. So let's say he gets a three-month ban. That definitely takes him out of the French Open and Wimbledon.
If it's a six-month ban, obviously that takes him out for most of the rest of the season, let's say the whole season. You've also got the situation whereby it seems that Darren Cahill doesn't intend to continue coaching him beyond this year, not because it's not going brilliantly and they don't love working together. That is incredibly apparent, but just, you know, Darren Cahill's always kind of managing the commitments of coaching with...
life outside of it and broadcast commitments as well. I think there's just a feeling of this is only sustainable for however much longer. So imagine a scenario, a very plausible scenario, where come May, Sinner is banned and they never compete in a Grand Slam together again. Darren Cahill's never by his side again in a Grand Slam. Sinner's returning to the tour with...
The time away from the tour and the impact of that, the kind of psychological and PR impact. I know he's had, he's done a tremendous job of dealing with all of that. I cannot believe, and I think he takes a real pride in how well he has performed in spite of everything that's going on around him.
all of these things potentially heaped on together. Like there's no guarantee that he, let's say he serves a band, that he comes back the same player. Like there's so much uncertainty around men's tennis right now. Yeah, it would make a massive difference to the complexion and the landscape of men's tennis. And yeah, I do think that would open the door for Zverev on one level. But I said a few months ago that...
There are young lads coming. And he's got lucky a few times. And it's a great skill of his that he survives. But I'm not sure he gets away with that every time. I'm really not. I still think he's at his most dangerous at Roland Garros, where he can hang out further behind the baseline and take big swings and load up with topspin. I mean, he's a brilliant clay court player and an excellent mover on it. But even so...
A couple of guys very nearly beat him, and it's to his credit that they didn't. But how long are you going to be able to hold them off? I think, I mean, every one that goes by is a missed opportunity and one fewer that he can capitalise on. I don't think it's guaranteed that he wins one, but I think definitely the Sinner situation would improve his chances enormously.
And just finally on Sinner, I feel like we should end this section on Yannick Sinner. Let's assume he doesn't receive a ban from the WADA appeal in April or May of this year. Let's assume that that is dismissed and we proceed as we are. I did find it interesting how much Yannick Sinner was prepared to engage just now in press with questions about...
completing the career slam with targeting success on clay and grass. It seems really clear to me. He said you can't be a complete player if you're not having success on those surfaces. He wants that. He's really going to set his mind to those targets, I think. Yeah, I agree. He keeps saying, doesn't he, that he...
certainly hopes, maybe even expects that the outcome for him with the WADA appeal to Kaz will be positive for him. I think he's hopeful that that's the case and that he doesn't get a ban. And therefore, that part of the season will be a big chance for him to...
yeah, kind of expand his achievements in the sport and conquer those surfaces as well, which is maybe why another aspect of the ban might, if he does get a ban, it would be damaging because if he does miss that part of the season, it would be a real blow to him because he is sort of targeting it and aware that he wants to improve and it will be another year before he's able to...
to play again on those surfaces with the main tournaments being Roland Garros and Wimbledon, of course. So, yeah, like there's a lot there for Yannick Sinner. I was struck by how much happier he seemed winning this one compared to the US Open. Look, I think it wasn't, you know, it wasn't Madison Keyes, but there was a real darkness in that US Open final press conference, which wasn't.
there today it was it was much more than normal yannick's in a press conference and i do think having the date set is in the way that these athletes minds work is probably quite helpful for being able to compartmentalize and focus on this and enjoy this and
You know, it's obviously on his mind. He does say that. It's in the back of his mind, absolutely. But it's not at the forefront. And I think it was at the forefront during the US Open, you know, because it had only just come out and he was taking questions on it regularly. Whereas I think now he seemed in a bit of a better place with it all generally. So there was a shift there. And I was pleased to...
to sort of observe that. Absolutely. And look, he's proven he can win a slam without the Karota boys. Ban or not, that's got to be big. Maybe that's even a help. No carrots in the stadium tonight. Many carrots in Turin, though, where there was a Karota boy watch party type situation. Absolute scenes over there. Yeah. Yannick.
Fox isn't happening. That's it for part one. Join us for more in part two. Do you belong here? Trouble shooting an engine in a military workshop? What's your gut saying? Want to turn the volume down? Or stay here and get paid to learn a trade with an army apprenticeship that'll set you right for life.
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Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast, our 15th and final tennis podcast from the Australian Open 2025, where we need to talk about now a very headline grabbing moment that happened shortly before Alexander Zverev or shortly after Alexander Zverev accepted his runners up trophy. And just before he went to give his runners up speech, he stepped up to the microphone.
The Rod Laver Arena descended into silence in anticipation of Zverev starting to speak. And that silence was pierced by somebody in the crowd shouting three times, Australia believes Olya and Brenda. It was quite a moment in the stadium. Everybody kind of stopped in their tracks. Just a bit of background here for anybody that...
that doesn't know. This is from reporting in The Athletic earlier on today. Olya Sharipova, a former Russian tennis player, said that Zverev repeatedly abused her in 2019 in New York, Shanghai, Monaco and Geneva. She never involved the criminal justice system, making her allegations in a lengthy article in the online magazine Slate and on social media. The ATP decided to take no further action in January 2023 following a 15-month...
independent investigation that included extensive interviews with Zverev, Sharipova and 24 others, including family, friends and other players, as well as analysis of text messages, audio files and photographs. Zverev has always denied any wrongdoing.
Brenda Pitea, the mother of Zverev's child, alleged that he pushed her against a wall and choked her during an argument. She brought charges against Zverev in Berlin's Tiergarten court and in October 2023, a judge imposed a €450,000 penalty order on Zverev in connection with the charges.
Zverev appealed that penalty order, which led to a public trial that began on May 31, 2024, in Berlin. In advance of the trial, the court released contextual information on the case. The defendant, a well-known German professional athlete, must answer for the accusation of intentional bodily harm. In May 2020, he is said to have briefly choked his then-partner's neck with both hands in the stairwell of a Berlin apartment building during an argument.
victim is said to have suffered shortness of breath and considerable pain end quote. The trial was scheduled to run during the French Open and Wimbledon on non-consecutive days but Zverev settled the case out of court as announced on June 7th. A Teergarten District Court spokesperson confirmed that the settlement and end of the trial quote is not a verdict and is not a decision about guilt or innocence. That reporting is from The Athletic in a piece earlier on today. Now this incident was put to
Alexander Zverev, in his press conference, he was asked what his reaction to it was, what your response to people who believe the domestic violence accusations against him is. He responded to that question as follows. I believe there are no more accusations. There haven't been for nine months now. Good for her. I think she was the only one in the stadium who believed anything in that moment. If that's the case, good for her.
I think I've done everything I can and I'm not about to open that subject again now. Subsequent to that, we have actually been contacted by the woman who intervened in the on-court presentation on the Rod Laver arena tonight. She confirmed that her intervention ahead of Zverev's runner-up speech was a show of support for Olya Sharipova and Brenda Patea, the two women who have accused Zverev of domestic abuse, allegations that he has always denied. She's confirmed that she deliberately...
positioned herself close to the media seating so that her words would be heard and hopefully reported. She's also made it quite clear that this was not something she did lightly that she was terrified.
but she felt it was something that she had to do. She's also confirmed that upon leaving the stadium of her own accord, she was briefly questioned and issued with a direction to leave order, which she adhered to and left the precinct. Matt, you and I were in the stadium tonight, just a few metres from what happened, and it really was a moment that fully stopped us.
in our tracks? It really was, yeah. I think when we watch Alexander's various matches, we are constantly thinking about the allegations. We certainly have them in our mind. And we know that many listeners and tennis fans do too. But we're also aware that a lot of people don't know about them.
One of the reasons for that is there has, at times, been a silence in the sport about it. The ATP, for example, still does not have a domestic abuse policy. TV broadcasts that we've watched covering high-profiles, various matches have not always covered the story.
And, you know, any fans who got introduced to tennis through the Breakpoint series will not have known about it because it wasn't covered in there. So I think when you're in a stadium, you just don't know how many people are aware of the allegations. So I think for that reason, this was not something that I was expecting to happen. It really was very...
Shocking and impactful because it was, as you said, right as the stadium fell silent. I think some people watching on TV couldn't quite hear out, make out what was said. We heard it very clearly and we knew straight away what had been said. And I think the effect of what she's done is really quite powerful. You know, she's made headlines.
News reports cover the allegations in their reporting on the final, whereas they might not have done without this. And yeah, kind of single-handedly thrust it back into everyone's consciousness, including Zverev. Yeah, absolutely. It sure was a moment and it sure has led to some headlines.
This evening, absolutely, including here on the Tennis Podcast. That is it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk doubles. Do you belong here? Trouble shooting an engine in a military workshop? What's your gut saying? Want to turn the volume down? Or stay here and get paid to learn a trade?
with an army apprenticeship that'll set you right for life. Still listening? You belong here. Army. Recruiting now. Search Army jobs. Hear that happy business owner? They're whistling because they found a great deal for unlimited calls, texts and data with three business. Plans start from just £8 a month per sim, increasing to £8.50 in April 2025 and £9 in April 2026.
Switch to free business for savings that'll give you something to whistle about. Unlimited UK only. Fair use in GoRome destinations. £8 per SIM when you buy 10 to 15 SIMs on a 24-month plan. X 20% VAT. Terms apply. Welcome back to part three, where we have some doubles titles to talk about. The women's doubles title was won by Katerina Sini-Arkova and Taylor Townsend. Thrilling final 6-2, 6-7, 6-3 over Shea Suwei and Yelena Ostapenko. That is their second major title.
As a pair, they won Wimbledon in 2024. And it is Katerina Siniarkov's 10th Grand Slam title overall. Talk about her in just a moment. But for Taylor Townsend, some really amazing quotes from her that I read on the Australian Open website after this win. First of all, she talked about how she drew lots of inspiration from watching Madison Keyes win last night.
They're great friends and just reminded me just how much overwhelming joy there was for Madison Keys and the tennis community. People could not get their tweets and Instagram posts in quickly enough, could they? It was, you know, probably one of the most popular victories there's ever been in the locker room. But also from Taylor Townsend, she said, this one is super special to me. The last time I played on this court, the Rod Laver Arena, I was 15. I won the juniors here.
And that was the kickstart for her career, I think she means. Being here is so special to me because this tournament was the start of me living out this dream. I honestly don't think playing on this stage was, didn't think playing on this stage was possible when I played the juniors. So 13 years later to be holding this trophy, it really is amazing.
I love Taylor Townsend. Yeah, I loved reading those quotes. In terms of Sini Arkova, she's the first player to reach double digits for Grand Slams in doubles since Martina Hingis won at Wimbledon in 2015 with Sanya Mirza. And she's also just the seventh woman in the opening era to win at least three of the last four Grand Slams in doubles. She currently holds three of the four. That follows in the footsteps of...
Some great people. Martina Navratilova, Natasha Zvereva, Gigi Fernandez, Jana Novotna, and Pamela Howard-Schriver. Hey. Hello, Pam. It's something, isn't it? Incredible. It really is. I mean, I don't want to do down Taylor Townsend. I think she's incredible. But, I mean, Sydney Arcov is so good. It does feel like she could...
She could play with a broom and win. I mean, the saying always used to be, who's the best doubles partnership in the world? John McEnough and anyone. And I always felt that's a bit harsh on Peter Fleming. But I think it might have been him who coined it because he was a great doubles player himself, of course. But, yeah, Siniaka is a repeat winner with several different people now. And I do think it's incredible that, you know, that being an excellent...
doubles player isn't enough melding into partnerships is such a key skill and she's obviously got some some great chip that enables her to form good partnerships and that's that shouldn't be underrated as a skill I don't think there was a lovely moment when Siniarkova was serving for it wasn't she and Taylor Townsend had already served for the match herself in the second set before they ended up losing that second set they end up
Serving for it again in the third. And Cinearchiver, I think it's a double fault on the first point. And they go for their little conflab before the next point. And you could just, they did a, Cameron did a close-up on Taylor Townsend. And you could just hear her say, I got you. And it was just lovely. I loved it. And, you know, like two very different.
that she's had in terms of her main ones, like Krejcikova and Townsend, are very different people, I think. And yet they've both melded really, really well with Siniarkova. And they were the better team here. As you said, they were serving for it in the second set. They were 6-2, 5-4 up. And actually, I was surprised by how one-sided and comfortable it was for them up to that point. Suddenly, Shea and Ostapenko, who...
just have a kind of magic about them as a pairing because they both have a kind of magic about them individually suddenly they started bringing it and Ostapenko in particular played a great return game to get them level and they carried it on into the tie break and actually went up a break right at the start of the third set and it did seem like everything had shifted but
Cineographer and Townsend just, you know, never panicked. And their kind of experience kicked in, I think, maybe in that third set. And, yeah, they're a formidable pairing. And, you know, I'd love them to keep playing together because I think they're a great pairing to watch as well. And as are Shea and Ostapenko, like, you know, two very different approaches to tennis there. And it was also just fun to...
fun to see Ostapenko I think kind of in the company of Shea like obviously there was a lot of what we love Yelena Ostapenko for, you know, eye rolling and doubting the line calls and, you know, swing volleys that almost take Siniarkova's head off when she would have been much better just punching a simple volley. All of that stuff was there. But it also looked like she was genuinely really enjoying herself with Shea at times. And I think Shea just kind of...
can have that influence on you. So, yeah, it was a really, really fun match. Like, not a full crowd by any means, but they did at least get all the crowd down in the lower bowl of the Rod Laver Arena, and there was a decent atmosphere there. And, yeah, like, women's doubles continues to be a very, very fun time. Yeah, unlike crowd-wise with the men's...
doubles final. That was played after the women's singles final last night. Won incredibly by Henry Patton, the Brit, and his Finnish partner, Harry Heliovara, 6-7, 7-6, 6-3, over Simone Bilelli and Andrea Vavasori, the Italian pairing. A three-hour, four-minute final that finished at 1.42 in the morning. Patton Heliovara, incredible story. Like, when they won Wimbledon last year, it felt very...
Out of nowhere. And now here they are holding 50% of the current Grand Slam titles. Like, really incredible follow-up. And it deserved more, David. Yeah, it's a tough one, isn't it? When do you schedule these finals? Because I suppose the argument would be if you'd have ended up having a really short final in the singles, then at least the ticket holder has the doubles to follow.
I just feel like the doubles deserve better than that. And Vavasori was keen to make the point himself in the on-court presentation that hopefully we can get a better schedule next time and there's actually people in the stands because people can't wait around to watch that, I'm afraid, no matter how good it is. And just on the achievement itself, there was an 18-16 first set tie-break in that that Patton and Heliovarra lost.
And how you come back from that and win the second set tiebreaker and then win the third set as well, that is a massive achievement. And, I mean, Patton is a British player. He's a huge guy. He used to play with, I think, Julian Cash. They had some success. But, you know, you really have to build a ranking out of nothing, a bit like Joe Salisbury did. You know, you come through on the challenger circuit so you can get into these ATP events.
been he's had success before and and so but then as you were talking earlier about melding a partnership there's no guarantee that that's going to work you know and and they've come together and it didn't take long for them to click two grand slams in inside 12 months amazing incredible incredible story and it's our last on the tennis podcast at the 2025 australian open it's been how's it been how would we sum up this slam
The first week was thrilling. I really think that was a great opening week of a slam. On the men's side, I've realised today, there have been no five-set matches since the third round. And look, a five-set match isn't necessarily a great match, but it felt like we had a load to begin with. We had some real thrillers, and then the tournament just kind of lost its way a bit on the men's side in terms of great matches.
On the women's side, we had Madison Keys. And that made the second week historic, fun, enthralling. And that's how I'll remember this tournament, I think. You know, those two matches that Madison Keys won in the semis and final to win her first major in those circumstances, that will be my lasting image of this Australian Open. And personally, you know.
I've had a wonderful time. You know, it's been great. I actually genuinely, not just trying to plug our review show that we do, I genuinely feel like I need a bit of time to kind of process whether it was a good tournament in terms of... And when you say that, I kind of can remember things a little bit. And I've ended up...
I can remember the Madison Key story so vividly, and obviously I can remember what's happened today and a few of the things late on and the Djokovic-Alkaraz. But my main takeaway will be a little bit like my first French Open, where I remember the fact that I, for the first week, was able to just go everywhere.
and experience everything. And much as I absolutely adore working for BBC Radio and commentating, this is the first time in 22 years of coming here that I've ever done what I did in the first week, which is just be working exclusively for the podcast and be able to just go and sit on every court and soak up matches and stories and atmosphere and people. And it was magical. It was truly magical.
Yeah, I think that'll always stay with me. Well, seeing as you've set me up for a promo, David, here goes. I'll move the promo up the agenda. We'll be back with our regular weekly show next Monday. Before then, we will be recording the aforementioned Australian Open Review Show. We'll be recording that later this week once we're back in the UK to help you and us with the post-Grand Slam.
blues we will also have a live Q&A show for friends the following week so look out for a link to that on email if you're signed up as a friend if you're not but you're interested in signing up then this is what you get ad free listening that's new for 2025 access to the barge our non-toxic online community for tennis fans think tennis twitter back when
Twitter was a good thing. Not a single Elon Musk in sight. Although we did enjoy our ride in a Tesla yesterday, didn't we? I had very, very conflicted feelings. You get 12 live shows a year. They're also available as podcasts. Eight editions of Tennis Relived in addition to that. The probable return of loitering with law.
To be discussed, but it was enough of a hit that I think we'll be needing to bring it back. Well, if it's got by you, it's definitely coming back. You also get access to a pre-sale for tickets to all of our live shows and there are going to be more of those. So if you would like to become a friend and get access to all of that, then the link to do so is in our show notes. And if you want to make your pet a mascot or get yourself an intro or a shout out, then all the details for doing that are...
there as well just follow the link tennis.supportingcast.fm tennis.supportingcast.fm and it is all there we have to say hello one last time to our mascots David hello Phoebe we lost it at the last but it is still a creditable performance from myself and Phoebe most excellent who did you lose it to who did I lose it to Matt
You lost it to Sophie. Oh, I don't mind at all. We love Sophie. Sophie's great. Yeah, I'm genuinely pleased for Sophie. She's written a little winner's speech for the newsletter. Oh, Sophie. OK. And Maisie, you and I, I think, leapfrogged Matt with our straight sets win for Yannick Sinner. So well done, Maisie. Matt doesn't mind finishing last in the Australian Open predictions because Matt... Well, he does a bit.
How can you mind, Matt, when what dropped in your inbox today dropped in your inbox? Tell us about today's big reveal. What we've all been waiting for, the email from Carrie to say that her puppy has arrived. And it's already enormous. It's so big. What sort is it? It's a Bernadoodle. Oh.
Bernie's Mountain Dog and a poodle across incredible dogs. And the big news is that he's called Roger. Yes, that Roger is the inspiration, of course. Carrie's neighbour is already calling him Fed. Day one. Day one.
And Roger is a delight. Of course. Of course. We've got more information about Carrie's first few days with Roger in our final Australian Open newsletter to come. I'm thrilled. The pictures are just incredible. And yeah, very, very, very pleased to be able to say that Roger is my mascot. Welcome, Roger.
Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Geoff. What a pleasure it is to have you along for the ride. And Matt, we have our final Australian Open shout outs. We have Freddie in South Hampstead, London. Could it be Freddie from the Traitors? No, because we chatted with Freddie at Murray Kokanakis.
At 4am on the second court. I don't remember chatting to Freddie from the Traitors, although we didn't know of Freddie from the Traitors at the time. Imagine if it was. I didn't watch the Traitors thinking, saw that guy. And I didn't watch the Traitors. Tell us about this excellent Freddie.
Other than that he was there at 4am watching Murray Kokonakis, which is quite something. Yes, and that was actually kind of how he discovered the podcast all around that time. Who were these insane people that are here watching this? Freddie, that's awesome. Thank you. Freddie Nielsen. Very good. With Johnny Murray. Didn't you mention Johnny Murray the other day as well?
That's twice in a week. I know, I'm doing well. Thank you, Freddie. I don't think that was on the podcast. No, it wasn't, was it? That was a lunch. That was one of those conversations that we have that isn't on the podcast. Yeah, we're just always... Which is actually most of our conversation. We're always talking about Johnny Marriott, guys. We are the same off-air as we are on... It was about him giving away a point to his opponent in the Wimbledon final because he's a good sport.
Yes, that's what it was. Freddie, thank you. We've also got Eben and Lucy Perkins, who are from Maine, and they would like to dedicate their shout out to Nancy Perkins, a lifelong sports fan who joined Eben and Lucy in New York last year for her first US Open. Nancy watched Feast.
played diallo on court 17 and is now fully on board the Art of Feast bandwagon. Yes, Nancy. She started listening to the pod, riding the train out to Flushing Meadows and now listens every week. Like Nancy Ritchie. Yes, absolutely. Great tennis name. Who won two major singles titles, the 1967 Australian Open and the 1968 French Open.
Very good. Thank you, Nancy. And Eben and Lucy, was it? Lovely stuff. Perkins gives me an opportunity to mention Johnny Perkins, who is the voice of Wimbledon, who does the famous announcement that Matt emulates every night live at Wimbledon. Ladies and gentlemen. We're only a few months away. You don't get one of those at the Australian Open. Yeah, if only somebody would kick us out, make us leave. It's 20 past three in the morning. Nancy, hello, and Eben and Lucy, that's extremely lovely.
And finally, we have Peter Dangerfield in Brooklyn, New York. Hello, Peter. You have a Taylor Swift song named after you. Yes. Great Taylor Swift song. Peter, not Dangerfield. I was going to say, I need context here. Peter says, I'm from Brooklyn and have been a listener for about six years.
And I would like to dedicate my shout out to my mother, Jill Dangerfield, who passed away last October. She signed me up against my will for tennis camp when I was 14. And as much as I grumbled about it, that summer taught me the basics and set me up for life as an obsessive tennis player and watcher in a good way. So cheers to my mum for giving me the gift of a love for tennis.
What a moment to end on. That's extremely lovely, Peter. And yeah, here's to Jill. Here's to everybody that gave us our love for tennis, whoever that might be, for all of you listening.
And thank you for listening. Thank you to all of our friends at the pod who have made it possible for us to be here. Thank you to Steve Fergal's International Tennis Tours, who have also supported us throughout this fortnight, your gateway to premium tennis events worldwide. We have truly loved it, even the 5am finishes, even Matt being grumpy while I sung nursery rhymes about mice.
I won't do it again, Matt. Don't worry. It's been awesome and it's been an incredible way to start the 2025 season and we can't wait for more. We're going to get on a plane home tomorrow. We're going to sleep a lot.
And then we're going to start podcasting again. Yay, brilliant. We are flying home via Singapore and WTA Singapore starts this week and Amanda Inissimova is playing. Gosh. How long we got? Maybe I'll just stay in Singapore. It's never ending, folks. That's why we love it. Thank you all very much for listening. We'll speak to you soon.
belong here trouble shooting an engine in a military workshop what's your gut saying want to turn the volume down or stay here and get paid to learn a trade with an army apprenticeship that'll set you right for life still listening you belong here army recruiting now search army jobs there's cars and suvs
Then there's vans and pickups. Looking for expert advice on your next vehicle? Our Toyota and Lexus business team are here to help. Whether it's electric, hybrid, petrol, diesel or hydrogen vehicles, our dedicated team offers comprehensive consultancy for large and small fleets. With our award-winning reliability recognized by the What Car Awards, we keep your vehicles on the road and your business running smoothly. Search better business to learn more.
Lexus awarded Best Reliability in the 2023 What Car Awards.