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Hi, this is Billie Jean King. This is Marion Bartotti. This is Bianca Andreescu. I'm Mats Villander. This is Mary Carrillo. This is Pam Schreiber. This is Yannick Noah, and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast. Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast on day 10 of the Australian Open where it is 2.23 in the morning and you find myself, Catherine Whitaker, David Law, Matt Roberts in a cafe that's...
I stopped serving at 8pm and I made that six hours and 24 minutes ago. David is wearing his koala baseball cap, which is creating a slight air of absurdity. to the recording which feels very very appropriate because we have seen the absurd tonight 37 year old Novak Djokovic beating 21-year-old Carlos Alcaraz 4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 in three hours and 37 minutes. David. The absurd is correct, Catherine, I think, because I thought I'd seen and heard...
and experienced everything there was to see here and experience from Novak Djokovic over the course of, you know, a 20-odd year career. I thought... when he won Olympic gold, there was really nothing else to be taken aback by. Because I thought that that wouldn't happen, given what we'd seen at Wimbledon. And I thought that him winning...
against Carlos Alcaraz over the best of five sets at a Grand Slam tournament was not something I was ever going to see with him at 37 and Alcaraz at 21. And he's proved all of that wrong. I find it breathtaking what he's achieved tonight. His ability, his shot-making, his movement, and what he was able to do to our crowds to come back from a set-down. a lot along the way with the off-court medical timeout, etc. But what he came back out with for the last two hours of that match...
was some of the best tennis I've ever seen, really, from anybody at any age. And he's done it at 37. And I just don't know how he's done that. Along the way, he's doing a lot of heavy lifting.
in that assessment from David, isn't it? But I share all of those thoughts and feelings about how... unreal that performance was from Novak Djokovic even without all the context of the injury and the age and and everything everything going on it was an absurdly good performance but factor all that into the mix and it's it's pretty hard to wrap your head around actually Matt let alone at 226 in the morning good luck what have you got for us
Yeah, I wrote down on Match Point, this is like if Pete Sampras had beaten Rafael Nadal in 2008. Like, that's how absurd it is. Like, that's how late into his career Novak Djokovic is and how... coming into his absolute prime, Carlos Alcaraz is, and yet it's Novak Djokovic who's won it. I have to think about the myriad ways in which I was wrong because I've been theorising for about a year now that...
I just don't know whether Novak Djokovic has it in him to beat Alcaraz and Sinha over the best of five sets at Grand Slams, as David has said. We'd had a little bit of evidence to suggest not, you know, given the last two times that he... been in that situation he'd lost um and the first set I was thinking I was right to be honest I really thought that we were seeing Carlos Alcarez
younger, stronger, faster, fitter, just imposing himself and having too much for Djokovic, who looked a bit old, really. He wasn't middling the ball at the start of this match. After the injury and in sets, particularly sets three and four, the way he was just middling the ball and taking time away from Alcaraz and...
Just generally playing some absolutely astonishing tennis just blew me away, really. I was left absolutely shocked and in awe by what Novak Djokovic did to turn that match around. I think that we'll talk about... Alcaraz's role in that, and I think Alcaraz kind of let Djokovic become that brilliant version of himself. He really let him off the hook in that second set. But that's...
That's not to take anything away from how good Djokovic was in the second half of this match. Utterly extraordinary. Under pressure. In that fourth set, he was put under a lot of pressure. Alcaraz was getting into his service games. He was composed, he was poised, he brought it, and he absolutely showed why he's the best male tennis player of all time. He's fended off.
Federer and Nadal, and now he's fending off Alcaraz coming at him. I mean, it's just extraordinary. Yeah, and his sublime is set three. And four were, and they absolutely were. Carlos Alcaraz said they were Olympic gold medal match level from Novak Djokovic. They both, Djokovic and Alcaraz, are in agreement that this match was won and lost in the second set.
Alcaraz said, I felt like I was controlling the match and I let him get into it again. I should have pushed him more to the limit in that second set when he was still suffering a little bit from the after effects of this. injury that he seemed to sustain in the latter stages of the first set he's he's being a bit cagey Djokovic about exactly what it is he says it's similar to the one he was carrying throughout the tournament here
two years ago. So hamstring, groin, something in that area. He had a medical timeout at 5-4 in the first set. Alcaraz leading 5-4, Alcaraz then having to come out and serve for the first set, which he successfully did. But it was over the course of that second set that...
the painkillers started kicking in, but certainly Djokovic looked there for the taking at the start of the second set, and Alcaraz did not take him. And Djokovic was... you know, whilst being incredibly respectful and glowing of Alcaraz.
In general, as a competitor and an athlete, he was pretty damning in his assessment of how Alcaraz let him off the hook in that second set. He says, I noticed it and I used it. He said, I felt like he was looking at me more than... he was looking at himself yeah it's it's it's fantastic observation and analysis for us isn't it i love how honest he's been about that and and al cruz is being honest about it too so we're actually we're left in this
almost unusual position of not having to guess, not having to just try to work it out from the sidelines. They've let us in there. And that is exactly what happened. I mean, I've got notes here that I wrote down of... When he sustained that injury and went off, I mean, he basically, at the end of that first set, Djokovic just decided to let that set go after he came back out from the medical timeout.
But he went three love up immediately. And he was hitting pinpoint shots. Our crowd just started becoming reactive. Whereas in the first set, he'd... After he'd withstood the first little break of serve that he sustained, he was the aggressor.
In fact, I thought that he was starting the match almost like Djokovic started the Olympic final, thinking, I've got to land some blows, Alcraz, and that's what he was doing. And then it completely turned on its head. And, I mean, Djokovic... which was honest as well by saying that even though it hindered my movement or I hurt myself and I had to have treatment, actually it helped me because it made me go after the ball.
Whereas in the first set, fully fit, he was passive, he was flat, he was being dictated to. And he has this... It's not unique, but he has an ability to just... turn it turn on the the the turbo really of his game he can't do it at will but he's looking for it and once he finds it i don't think anybody can deal with it
Even Alcraz, as the match was wearing on, he was hitting full-blooded shots at him. And he was getting shocked because they were coming back just as fast. And it's just that purity of timing. connection that Djokovic has. And it was shaking Alcaraz to his boots at times in that match. And he showed his inexperience on a number of levels.
none more so than in that second set, as you say. I mean, Djokovic even said to Jim Currier on court in the interview afterwards, which he did, as we were expecting, because the TJ incident was... God, I've said TJ a lot this... this week. The TJ incident was put to bed yesterday. He said, look, if I hadn't won that second set, I might not have continued with the match. There's a world in which we did this podcast at 11pm.
There's a world in which we're in bed now and not in a sort of temporary structure that feels a little bit like it might be about to take off at 2.30 in the morning. Isn't life strange? We should probably talk a little bit about the more technical aspects here, and in particular the Alcaraz serve. and return, both of which struggled tonight. It's interesting if you just went in and looked at the numbers on Al Karaz's serve, headline is they kind of look all right. 74% first serves in.
for the match that is a great number but changing the service motion for our crowds was never really about that headline number was it it was about It wasn't even about the headline speed number, which was also decent tonight. It was about precision and accuracy and hitting spots and getting it out of...
the range of the opponent, getting it into more uncomfortable positions for the opponent. And he was totally unable to do that tonight. And Djokovic has fewer uncomfortable positions on return than anybody else in the world. probably in the history of men's tennis, don't come for me, Agassi fans. But even so, even so, the serve was a problem tonight for Carlos Alcaraz. Yeah, look, I think if you look at his points won on second serve, that's low. He's down at 33% for the match.
It did strike me that Djokovic was reading the serve. I remember the Wimbledon final last year. Alcres had an incredible serving day, and he really did...
sort of negate the Djokovic return in that final. But today it felt like the Djokovic return was just an absolute weapon. He was reading it, he was... getting enough back to to shock Alcaraz at his toes and he was also sometimes just hitting clean winners off off it and he was also you know he got into return games at crucial times you know to kind of
well, win that second set, which was absolutely huge for him. His return game just clicked in that moment. And look, I think the quality of Novak Djokovic's return is the main thing here. Like, Alcaraz probably could have served like that through... against most players in the draw and we'd have thought, wow, the new Alcarest serves looking really, really good. He'd have been writing, am I a serve boss on the camera again? Exactly. But he's made those changes.
to face the top guys. And this was the first real, real test of it. And I think Novak Djokovic won that battle for sure. You know, he just did because... because he broke in, what, six times, I think, in the match altogether, and that's... That's quite a high number if you think back to last year. I know Djokovic wasn't in the form, but he didn't even create a break point against Yannick Sinner in the semi-final last year. And when he played Sinner again later in the season, I think in Shanghai.
He really struggled with Sinner's serve then as well. And I think there's a big difference right now between Sinner and Alcaraz. Sinner is able, on a hard call in particular. to back up his serve better than Alcarez is. I think he hits his spots better, and Alcarez has really... got to improve that and he is clearly working to improve it and he's not going to be facing the Novak Djokovic return for the majority of his career you know I've said it before
Novak Djokovic is probably the best player Alcaraz is ever going to face. Like, this is incredible. training for him in a way like and he said that in his press conference just now didn't he like he he can learn from these moments and he really really can but it's going to sting because it probably feels like he should be winning them now And he's...
OK, he's won some against Novak Djokovic. Let's not underestimate he's won two Wimbledon finals against him. That's extraordinary. But he's also lost his fair share and he's trailing in the head-to-head and Djokovic presents him with problems. that other players don't. Djokovic is able to latch on to returns. He's able to hit his own spots on the serve, and Alcaraz really struggled with the forehand return on the deuce side today.
He's able to put Alcaraz in so many uncomfortable positions. He just doesn't find himself in against other players. In the long run, I do think all of this is good experience for Alcaraz. He wants to be winning them now and Novak Djokovic is still in the way. And that's quite something, you know, considering we're, what, 18 months on from him beating him in that Wimbledon final where it really felt like...
OK, that's a big moment of the power of men's tennis shifting. And Djokovic is just popping up and reminding everyone that... He's still the guy when he brings his best. It's remarkable. So do you, David, also view this Alcaraz performance mostly through a Djokovic lens and the brilliance of Djokovic? Because it just sort of... Looking at the bare facts, he's a 21-year-old marvel that has just lost to an injured 37-year-old. That's not great, is it, from a set-up?
Should we not deep it too much? Should we just say, like, it's Novak Djokovic, as Matt says, the best opponent he's ever going to face, regardless of age? Or should we be looking at Carlos Alcaraz and saying... He's got a bit of a problem with getting lost in matches or not showing up in matches or failing to problem-solve when he's in tight spots sometimes. I do think he's got learning to do.
I remember when he cramped after the two sets against Djokovic in that French Open, and it was suddenly this moment of realisation that, oh, he's... He's not the finished article yet. He's got stuff to learn and you had to learn about that. And he did. He lost the match against, excuse the vacuum cleaners. I think it's a leaf blower. Oh, is it? Oh, okay. Well, we deal with what we can around here. Those are pointless things.
They're just swirling him about the place. You know, he lost that match against Medvedev at the US Open. He lost the one against Zverev here a year ago. I do feel that there have been some that you just think, crikey, those are ones that got away. You haven't even said Burtick. Well, yes, but I kind of discount that because of the Olympics and the fact that he and Djokovic both lost one after another.
This one, I do feel he led him off the hook, yes. But I will remember it more for what Novak Djokovic did to him. And did... did in this match you know there was there was a moment in the third set where I kept nudging Matt when when Djokovic was a breakup and I said I think I think there's a chance that this still gets physical because The games were getting drawn out. Our crowds were starting to force break points. Then there was that game where...
And miraculously he managed to hold on to his serve when it looked all over and he won that 33-stroke rally. One of the best rallies you will ever see. And it left both players leaning... on the side of the court for breath. Alcaraz laughing, but he's 21. The other guy's 30, 70, and Djokovic encased his own head in his towel just to sort of calm himself down, I think, because his heart rate must have been going.
so crazy and I so my takeaway is that it is Djokovic's victory and it's Al Kraz who needs to learn something and The main thing I remember feeling watching Djokovic is I just can't think of another athlete that I've ever seen in any sport at this sort of age who could play this sort of aerobic...
a sport against a 21-year-old phenom like Alcaraz, who's probably going to end up one of the greatest players we've ever seen, and take him out like that. Can you think of anybody who can go like that, the way they were going side to side? Alcaraz was making it physical in a best of five set match and he still couldn't take him out. I find it astonishing. Just on an Alcaraz point, like...
night sessions do seem to be a little bit of an issue for him. I mean, he has spoken about how he prefers playing during the day generally, and I know he had that incredible run to the US Open title. where he played a lot of night sessions in 2022. But since then, if you think... Zverev here last year was night session. Djokovic here is night session. And the two losses at the US Open, Medvedev and Bortek, night session. Whereas the slams he's won in the last period, Wimbledon...
always during the day. Frank Chopin at the... latter end is when they get rid of the night sessions and he played his big matches there against Sinner and Zverev in the semis and final they were they were day session matches and look I'm not trying to make excuses for him because I'm not saying there's necessarily the reason why
lost but I think there is something in knowing what your rhythm of your day is going to be there's something there's night sessions do feel different they do Djokovic is absolutely incredible at them here like unbelievably good and that's something I think he needs to he needs to play better in these big night session matches at slams. I think we can look at enough evidence now to suggest that...
that his losses are sort of coming in those sessions. Throwing it forward a bit for Novak Djokovic, spoiler alert, he's going to face Alexander Zverev in the semi-final. We will... We will touch upon Zverev's quarterfinal against Tommy Paul earlier in the day, although it rather does feel like old news. But it'll be Djokovic against Zverev in the day session on Friday. So Djokovic does get two.
full days off before his semi-final on Friday. But there are major, major concerns about how Djokovic is going to be physically. Concerns that he wasn't... able to LA either in his uncle interview with Jim Currier or in the press conference just now he said basically painkillers got me through the match today I do not know how I'm going to be in the morning
fingers crossed pretty much yeah and if you remember back two years ago when he had this sort of hamstring injury Goran Ivonezovich described the scan, the tear that he'd seen on that scan, and he said... 99% of all players on the tour would have withdrawn from the tournament if they got a result like that on a scan. And the truth is Novak Djokovic hasn't had a scan yet. It's too recent. He's had the painkillers, he's had the strapping. He knows it wore off during the match, but...
He's going to be hurt tomorrow. He's going to be sore. And I mean, I think if we, I know it's a different kind of injury, but if you think back to the French Open, when he sort of suffered that injury, I think the assumption was... Oh, Novak Djokovic has got this incredible pain threshold. He's able to manage injuries. He'll be OK. Well, actually, he needed surgery. Don't think that it's that kind of injury on this occasion, but...
Particularly at the age of 37, you can't take anything for granted. And he's also not going to be playing Carlos Alcaraz, which, let's face it, is a match that he has been building up to and Andy Murray, his coach, has been preparing for since that draw. Came out. First Andy Murray mention. I know. I felt like I just had to throw him in. Just... Big hug between them at the end. Was there? I felt like there was a...
A big extension of arms from Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray was just sort of there. Yeah. Alcraz, that's a Freudian slip. Djokovic sort of was very pumped going over to the bench and... I've done it again. Murray was less pumped. Slightly felt embarrassed, I think, but was also, you know... He's definitely been to the Van Lendel school of how to be a coach, hasn't he? Do not emote. And obviously, we can't... see from our positions in the media seats, we can't actually see the encore.
coaching team of Novak Djokovic because they're sort of directly under us. No, it's incredibly frustrating. I sort of forget that Andy Murray's involved. But it does seem like from the little images that occasionally flash up on the screen that he's not standing up. He's sitting there. Because he doesn't want to get shouted at. You know, the rest of the team, the other three, were standing up quite a lot and Murray's just sitting there. Well, yeah.
To pick up on the point, Novak Djokovic said again in his on-court interview and reiterated in the press conference, it felt like a slam final. I wish that was a slam final. I think it's going to be... Obviously, he's motivated. He wants to win this title desperately. The things he's putting his body through to do these things, he's going to the dark places, but...
There's a difference between wanting to win it and just... And what he found in the Olympic final and what he found today and what he channeled in the last couple of days with the... tj situation there's tj again um And he's not going to have that against Ferev on Friday. And the fact that it was Alcaraz, you know, his great rival, this intergenerational rivalry, which has reignited him at this stage of his career. It's just different.
against Verev. And it's also a day session, which is a very different kind of vibe, a less focused kind of a vibe. I'm worried about him, even if he's physically okay. I'm worried about that match from... that perspective, whether it'll just feel a bit after the Lord Mayor's show for Novak Djokovic. Yeah, and it's not a conscious...
lack of motivation. I actually put it to him in the press conference, emotionally, how difficult will it be, challenge-wise, for you to get up for another one? And he gave a lengthy answer. I mean, at this stage, he's more worried. physically he said that he said there won't be any issue for me motivation wise as long as I'm okay physically but we saw in the first set he's a totally different tennis player if he doesn't have the edge whatever the edge is
You know when he's got it. You know when he's got that liquid arm and the ball is coming off his racket. And he's hitting the ball actually as hard as anybody in the world. Even harder at times because of the purity of the strike and how you can see the adrenaline is coursing through his...
veins and he's he's kind of in that zen-like state where he's just floating across the court and and it doesn't matter how hard you hit it and where you put it he's going to get there and do something with it other times he can look quite awkward and And as though he doesn't have it anymore. And I mean, he's banished that in the course of this match from start to finish. But there's definitely a chance that he comes out. and he's a bit flat against Zverev, who plays a brand of tennis that...
can kind of make you nod off as an opponent, I think, if you're not careful. You know, he's going to stand way behind the baseline. He's going to be heaving ground strokes at Djokovic. It's not always going to be as exciting. He's going to be quite happy to have 40. stroke runners with Djokovic. Blimey, if he's not bang on it, it's going to be tough. He might need some feathers for help. Should we talk about Zverev and Paul and the feather? Sure. Sure. What an extraordinary...
A moment from Zverev to complain about a feather coming out of the sky. It's been far too long since feathers have been involved in controversy at Grand Slam tennis matches. It was actually Djokovic against Murray here in 2013.
wasn't he in the final big big moment for the feathers today Zverev beat Tommy Paul 7-6 7-6 2-6 6-1 Tommy Paul having served for both those first two sets that eventually went to tie breaks and were won very handily by Alexander Zverev in those tie breaks in the words of Zverev I feel like I stole both those sets he was playing better He missed more than he should have.
in those tie breaks. That's it, really, isn't it? Very well put. I mean, very reminiscent to some of the French Open matches where he got out of jail, really, Sverev. And he was comprehensively outplayed for the vast... majority of the first three sets and he ended up winning in four i mean that's an incredible skill If you can pull it off, it shows what a good competitor he is and how he hangs in and how you just have to find a way to put him away because he's not going to just capitulate.
And he asked the questions of Tommy Paul, and Paul failed to answer them when it mattered most. Paul got into the winning position with all the skills that got him the two previous wins against Verev. He was moving him around. He was pulling the trigger on the forehand. He was standing and hugging the baseline. And frankly, this was a poor performance for Alexander Zverev compared to the rest of the year or the last 12 months or so.
He only served at around 62% in the first two or three sets. That's not high for Zverev. And he was missing a lot of forehands. He was playing passively. He felt there for the taking. for Tommy Paul today, and Paul blew it. And he was, you know, irritated. He was... finding things to get pretty het up about Alexander Zverev, one of those things being The Feather. And I think at the point The Feather got involved, he was already...
He already had a code violation. Certainly around that time, he received a code violation for an audible obscenity. And then he took great issue with the umpire. insisting there be a let because of a feather interfering with play. Yeah, Zverev actually wasn't bothered at all about the feather. His issue was that the umpire was so bothered by the feather and therefore he called a let and he said, are you insane? And he pointed at other feathers on the court.
Yeah, he didn't handle the situation gracefully. Big day for bird stuff on the Rod Laver Arena. There was a minor stoppage for some... bird poo to be wiped off the court during Djokovic alcohol. There's a lot of seagulls that are swirling about the place above, aren't there? Second slam in a row I've seen children with towels and disinfectant spray. Furiously scrubbing. Anyway. Paul, look, he hasn't beaten a player of Alexander Zverev's calibre at a Grand Slam.
And we saw why, I think. In the moments that mattered, he failed to execute. He played really, really well with the right game plan up until... the most crucial moment and then it just fell to pieces and i did also wonder whether he's just his his like match tightness and match had slightly been lost given the route he had through here. You know, where... Are you blaming Alejandro Davidovic-Chukina? And Roberto Carbaez-Biena, who completely fell away in that third round match.
Cruz through the last 10 games. Even Kane Ishikori had absolutely nothing left in that fourth round. He just had a string of matches, whether the...
the result wasn't in doubt at the end. You know, like, just really, really straightforward. And, like, it just felt like he was missing in those really crucial moments today. And then, look, I think the more... important point here is probably the big picture of Tommy Paul's career where as I said he hasn't brought that level against the very very very very best players at the slams but Zverev did what he does and once he got to those tyre brakes he was he was flawless and
If there was ever a moment where you thought maybe Paul could get something going after he won that third set, Zverev did pick up his level in the fourth and it was extremely one-sided. But yeah, look, I... I take all the points about what Novak Djokovic might be like in a few days time on Friday. He said to you David that you try and feed off a match like this.
And I do think there's a possibility that, you know, now he's eyeing 25. You know, like he's beaten Carlos Alcarez. It's possible it goes the other way, and he's... even more motivated and realising that he can win this tournament. And it's possible that the only thing stopping him now is the leg and the physicality. And I think that's a... That's a big question mark. He is concerned, for sure. I know some people listening will probably think, oh, well.
Novak Djokovic is always concerned about something and look those thoughts kind of go through our mind as well but you know you look him in the eye in that press conference and I have no doubt that there's an issue there and
He's worried about it. I do think it's possible that it puts him in a place that he is able to play through it and we saw what he could do tonight. So it's absolutely still possible that... that he can win this even even with that physical issue and and on the motivation thing I completely do take the point he might it's different he might be a bit flatter but he might also be
hyper-focused. I don't know. Tonight has taught me to never underestimate Novak Djokovic. It really has. Because I did. I genuinely underestimated him. I thought, I can't. He can't do this, but he can. He can. It's unreal. The wind predictor knew things that we didn't. The wind predictor does not underestimate Novak Djokovic. It had him at...
In the midway point of that fourth set, when Alcaraz was getting into the Djokovic service games and actually creating 15-40 on one of them, didn't he? The win predictor had Alcaraz at 5% chance of winning. Wow. Which I still think is wrong, because I had Alcaraz, you know, if it does not exist, but had Alcaraz found some kind of a way to win that fourth set, he would have been heavy favourite in the fifth, I believe.
Well, I was saying all the way through that fourth set, if he gets this break back, I think he takes over physically. Now... Anybody is well within the rights to say, well, he's proved you wrong on every other level. You have no knowledge that that would have happened, and I don't. It was only a hunch at the time. Well, nobody's beaten Carlos Alcaraz in five sets other than Matteo Berrettini in 2022, so there's evidence to...
He was still moving incredibly well, Djokovic. I just got the sense that the rallies were getting longer and longer and more side to side. I mean, the guy's got to run out of puff eventually, hasn't he? I mean, I just don't know when.
That's the thing. And the painkillers wear off. You know, we sat there in the press conference a short while ago. We were all in there and he was saying, I can feel them wearing off now. And it's getting worse with every second that passes. OK. We wish Novak Djokovic well in his recovery and we hope that... he's fit and firing for that semi-final against Alexander Zverev, which will be in the day session on Friday. We had a women's semi-final set up today and we'll talk about how it was set up.
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Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where the leaf blowers are still blowing. Where have all these leaves come from? I haven't seen any. Don't know. But there we are. It is just about to tick over to three o'clock in the morning. And we have a word from our sponsor, who are, of course, Steve Fogel's International Tennis Tours. They are your gateway to premium tennis events world.
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four-night pre-Leva Cup add-on experience at Yosemite National Park, which sounds excellent. Just head to toolsfortennis.com forward slash podcast to check it all out. As thrilling and mesmerising as Djokovic Alcaraz was, actually, in terms of story, we might have had the biggest one earlier on today with Coco Goffs. defeat her straight sets defeat to paula bedossa who has reached a first grand slam semi-final after three quarterfinal runs after quite frankly tell me if i'm wrong here but
I think we'd all really counted her out in terms of being a factor at the very top of the sport. We'll talk about all of that and what she's been through with her back injury and how she's managing it somehow in a bit. We have to talk about the Coco Gauff of all of this. This is a huge shock, David. Yeah, given what she did at the end of last year, winning the WTA finals, and having come out at the start of this year and looked...
probably the best version of herself that I've ever seen in winning the United Cup alongside Taylor Fritz for the United States. And to come into this tournament and, you know...
Maybe not reach quite those heights along the way, but it felt to me as though she was likely building up to this semi-final meeting that we've been hyping ever since the draw came out with her and Irina Sabalenka. Well, Paolo Bedosa had other ideas, and actually if you... look at the the head tear between them they'd both won equal numbers of of matches Barossa had talked in one of her wins in which she'd won six three six love in Madrid in 2023 about how she was
You know, the secret was just target the forehand and not even to hit it hard into the forehand, just kind of give her that shot and hope it breaks down. And on that occasion, it did. Wasn't as bad here, but it was definitely nowhere near as good as it has been on the forehand side. She was breaking down and...
I mean, a huge test passed by Paolo Berasa, which we can come on to. But in terms of getting herself into position to win it, Berasa really kind of outplayed her in the end. It was a decent start from Goff, but it didn't last. I thought she broke down the serve as well. I thought it was an incredible tactical performance from Paolo Bedosa here, that aggression on return. And she really accepted the...
the living and dying by the sword of that. There were obviously unforced errors on return, but they kind of paid her back later on in the match when Gough... had her return aggression in mind and started coughing up double faults. And really, I felt like started doubting herself. You know, it all started crumbling away. for Coco Goth, but incredible from Paola Bedossa, who I have definitely been underestimating, Matt, big time. Yeah, I think I've been underestimating her too.
Not the level of her tennis. I have been saying, whenever I've watched her over the past nine months or so, the tennis is really, really good. There were a few things that I had doubts about, and one of them was the ability to just keep stringing it together, match after match, given that we know that she's managing.
a very serious injury um it's a stress fracture in her back that she had isn't it and you know it was interesting to hear her talk about it today and how the treatment for that has has changed you know i remember Previously, when she talked about it, I remember her talking about getting the cortisone injections. But she hasn't actually had any of those since, I think, the clay court season last year, she said. And she's replaced her team.
gone back to her old team in terms of her fitness trainers and the people responsible for her. body and and keeping her fit for the match court and she's changed some of her diet as well and hearing all that and just It made me realise that actually I think some of the reasons she's been able to play such good tennis over the past few months is because she is managing this injury a lot, lot better now. So I think...
My concerns about her being able to string these matches together were maybe a little bit unfounded. And actually, maybe the other concern that I have, which she also overcame today, was whether she would get tight. because of what we saw against Emma Navarro at the US Open last year, which was such a scarring loss, I would have thought, you know, 5-1 up in that second set.
didn't win another game in the match and lost it in straight sets, just completely blew it. Like her whole game fell to pieces in that match. And yet today, she worked herself into a winning position. And yes, she got broken the first time she had to serve it out. But the second time, having got the double break, she was absolutely emphatic.
of the corners just close the match and that was a really big moment I think everyone in that stadium was thinking is she going to get tight is the US Open match going to going to come back to kind of haunt her but absolutely not and yeah her tennis was was brilliant she she kind of had the greater weight of shot in the match and For Goff, it kind of was a performance where the demons were lurking, right? Because the forehand did break down. The serve did break down.
I remember at the United Cup, she just looked like a different player. She felt and looked so secure. But I do remember also saying and thinking, we haven't got a big sample size. Like, it's not a huge chunk of time. has passed since she was looking a lot more vulnerable on those shots and I was really encouraged by Goff's press conference where she talked about yes this is disappointing but it's not crushing.
And it's generally her trajectory is upward, which is very different to where she was with the Grand Slam Defeats last summer, kind of where she had, she said she kind of had nowhere to go, she didn't really know. she didn't really have solutions she said whereas now she feels like she's on this upward trajectory and this is a blip absolutely she's got to learn from it but
And she's telling herself, and she knows, because it's true, her game is in a much better place to where it was a few months ago. And I thought that was a really reassuring and smart perspective to have on the match, actually. It was, yeah, absolutely, and it was good to hear. In terms of Paola Bedossa, she told us in press today that she had considered quitting the sport last year, and honestly, as shocking as that was to hear from someone sitting in front of you that's just...
reached a grand slam semi-final by knocking out one of the favourites. I actually wasn't that shocked because I had felt that way about her in the... early stages of last year and the year before, I felt like she was winding down and just kind of feeling out the last throes of her career, just sort of giving it a go in a slightly...
heart not quite in it well it was slightly resigned kind of a way that is how I'd felt about it and perhaps that's because you know I in a very much non-elite athlete kind of a way I I don't know the details of her situation, whether she has the kind of...
The complication with the stress fracture that I have with my back that sort of causes lasting chronic issues. But I've had those... facet joint injections the the cortisone facet joint injections that she said she had two of in a four month period in the the first part of last year and she had been told by the doctor that that
The absolute limit is three per year, and my understanding is three per year is really pushing it, and you do risk kind of long-term side effects with the three per year. So hearing about her saying she'd had two in four months, you know...
What I've been told about those, my understanding of those facet joint injections is they're not really a long-term sustainable solution. What they do is buy you a window of time, hopefully pain-free to... build up your body and find longer term solutions they hold the door open for you to find longer term solutions and sometimes they're not available you know that that is the that that is the sad truth about
about chronic conditions and hearing that she'd had two in four months and was already thinking about you know the the limit on how many you can have in a year I just thought this doesn't just doesn't sound like it's going anywhere and that's incredibly sad but I guess I'd written her off a little bit and if
If we've learned anything, it's don't write off Paola Bedossa and Novak Djokovic today. But it's an incredibly uplifting story in the context of all of that. And perhaps I kind of over-relate to it.
Yeah, I think it's incredibly uplifting. Well, I think so because it's so depressing, isn't it? When you have that sort of... pain all the time that nagging pain i've seen how it's affected you over the years you know it's just it's it's tough to to sort of feel good about things when you're in that sort of pain and and when you're when you're an elite athlete trying to perform at the very
highest level and you just know your body is not the same as everybody else's because of that condition I and she's talked a lot about the mental health struggles she's she's had of trying to
an example she gave, live up to being world number two. She said she would play matches when she was world number two and all she could think about was how people were coming for her and how she was supposed to win and just seeing her... having worked a bit of that out and now not being in quite the pain she used to be and then getting over this mental hurdle of serving this match out against the best fighter in the sport you know one of the one of the players who mounts come back
like that all the time I mean if you can't feed off an achievement like that then you can't achieve you can't feed off any because That is monumental, really, in her career, and who knows whether she'll be able to take it on, but that alone is huge, I think. In the Spanish bit of her press conference, she described it as the best win of her career.
and talked about how much more satisfying it is now to get wins like this than, for example, when she won Indian Wells, which obviously was a huge win. But she said it's a lot more satisfying now because...
I'm not new on the scene anymore. People know me, they know my game, and of everything that she's been through. Yeah, she's just in a very, very different place in her career than where... than when she was world number two and than when she was sort of last this consistent and yeah like it's it's
It's huge for Paola Bilosa to win this. Absolutely huge. Where was Stefanos Sittapas, I hear you ask, because she's been there supporting him through all of his... sparse recent successes since they've been together well on the basis of his instagram he was at the dentist with petros make of that what you will And when I say at the dentist, I mean very intimately at the dentist with Petros. Like, right there. Getting very involved. Getting a close-up. Look, I...
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. The only two people that know a relationship are the ones in it. But I am intrigued about how that relationship might respond to Badosa being the more successful one in it. I wish them well, but I'm intrigued. I mean, she has been for some time now. But this is a real benchmark of it, isn't it? There is no denying the role reversal now.
Just one final point I wanted to make on Coco Gauff, because I thought she said an interesting thing in her press conference about, like, maybe some people were watching that match and looking at the amount of unforced errors that were piling up. for Coco Gauff and there were a lot you know and she did keep going after the ball even though
She didn't really have the feel on the ball and on the racket today. She just wasn't on her game, but she kept going for it. I think maybe some people, myself included, might have been watching that thinking, why don't you just fall back on... what you did when you won the u.s open in 2023 and just try not to miss like try and just protect the forehand rather than go for it and i just thought it was interesting how she she said that
She could have gone into more of a grinding mode today. She could have done that, but it was a conscious effort to keep up playing aggressively and keep going for it because that's what's taken her to this new level over the last... few months you know she's in a transitional phase in her career where she's trying to be that player more often so
To really get there, you've got to commit to it, even in these sorts of moments. Maybe it would have been better in the short term to just try and win this match by adopting a slightly new approach. I almost felt like she was thinking about her long-term development as a player, even in the course of this match, by sticking with what she knows is the right way to be playing, to get the absolute best out of her game. So I thought that was really...
interesting insight from Coco Goff, which you don't always get from players straight after a pretty crushing loss like that. I thought it was really good of her to go into so much detail like that. Bedos' semi-final opponent will be the top seed, Irina Sabalenka, who is, of course, her best friend. Sabalenka beating Anastasia Pavlyushenkovic in a bit of a thriller, really. 6-2-2-6, 6-3. Very...
compelling match, very dramatic match, not the highest quality match because it was so affected by the conditions. It was... played during the absolute peak of the cool change which I was pleading for yesterday and it did come but what happens when you get a cool change is it comes you know it literally is blown in by the wind and The climate just changed in an instant and suddenly this match was played in a whirlwind and the average rally length was sort of veered between 2 and 2.5 shots.
throughout the course of the match and that stat pretty much tells the story of it. Yeah, it was erratic, wasn't it? And I put that... quite a lot at the door of Irina Sabalenka, who wants to play this front foot tennis. And it just wasn't really happening for her. She did win the first set 6-2. Pavlyuchenkova, I think, did struggle. on the stage initially, as well as with the conditions. But then she settled down.
and frankly took over and played the sort of beautiful tennis she's been playing all tournament long, which is just timing the ball sweetly, using Sabalenka's power against her.
Sabalenka was rattled. She was a breakdown twice in that final set at the start of it. And I think Pavlichenko will probably have a few regrets that she didn't... take over really at that point when when the window was there because Sabalenka was right in front of our commentary box window and she was getting so frustrated but The thing is, she keeps on going for it. She's a real champion like that.
I think she draws on the experience. We've talked about Carlos Alcraz needing to build more experience of these moments and situations. And you could see that Sabalenka never... doubted that she would find a way in the end. And that's what she did. Yeah, it's been quite interesting in the press conferences this week because Charlie Eccleshire of The Athletic has been asking a lot of players about Irina Sabalenka.
And, you know, what makes her so tough to play? And, you know, a lot of players obviously mention her power. But it's funny, I feel like one of the first things that Sabalenka mentions about herself is not only her power, but her fight. She always has rated her fight and her competitiveness in matches. And you saw that today because, yeah, she was in trouble here. There was a moment where I thought, oh.
It's just Pavlyuchenkova hitting her stride for a few games, and Savalenka will probably still win in straight sets. But it just... The Pavlyuchenkova purple patch just kept going for much longer than I was expecting. She played an absolutely glorious second set. So many winners, very few unforced errors. Her whole game was just... was just on it in that second set. And then when she goes up a break in the third, I really did start to think Sabalenka might be in a bit of trouble here. She was...
Andrea Pekovic made the point in commentary that Sabalenka needed to get the ball wide and get Pavlyuchenkova out of her hitting zone, but because she was making so many errors... she was playing it a bit safer than she usually might, and therefore she was hitting it up the middle, and that was allowing Pavlyuchenkova to do all the things that she could do. So it was a really difficult conundrum for Sabalenka.
through this match but you know she she raised her game just when she needed to in that in that third set and Pavlyuchenkova did drop off and yeah it's not Like, I wouldn't describe it as an escape for Sabalenka, but she was troubled there in a way that she just hasn't been... in Melbourne over the past couple of years. She'd won 22 sets in a row at the Australian Open, and it took something so great from Pavlyuchenkova to be able to...
to snap that streak today. But in the end, Sabalenka comes through it and, you know, she's won her last five against Paola Velosa. Some of those have been good. Belosa has brought a good level against her, even though they're friends, and it can sometimes be a bit awkward when friends play each other. But I do think Sabalenka much prefers to play Belosa than...
than Coco Gauff, even though we've just really rightly talked up how good Paolo Berdosa was today and has been over the past few months. But just the match-up and the way that Coco Gauff can... can retrieve can be very stress-inducing, I think, for Rina Sabalenka. And, you know, I'm a bit disappointed we're not getting Goff-Sabalenka, to be quite honest. Like, I was just... excited about that um but i think i think sabalenka will will be quite pleased really i think so too
Okay, that's it for part two. We've got a bit more for you in part three. See you on the other side. There's cars and SUVs. Then there's vans and pickups. Looking for expert advice on your next vehicle? Our Toyota and Lexus business team are here to help. Whether it's electric, hybrid, petrol, diesel or hydrogen vehicles, our dedicated team offers comprehensive consultancy for large and small fleets.
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Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast where it's now 3.21am and the leaf blowers continue to blow. Ah, lovely. We'll have a look ahead to tomorrow's order of play or today's order of play very shortly. First, a bit of news, a not wholly unexpected bit of news reported widely today in The Athletic and on Goran Ivanovic's Instagram that he...
and Elena Rabakina will no longer be working together. His post on his own Instagram was... pretty curt I would say it simply said after a trial period that finished with the Australian Open I wish Elena and her team the best of luck moving forward it is very evident that he
when he accepted this job, was not expecting Stefano Vukov to be involved in Elena Rabatkin's career as a coach. And that situation... changed without him without him knowing and uh without his agreement and it was never going to be sustainable i don't think so i think it's a Terrible, terrible shame because I think Goran could have been fantastic for a back burner and the fact that that felt so doomed makes me really sad and worried. for Elena Rabakina, quite frankly.
And obviously there's this investigation ongoing by the WTA into Stefano Vukov. He remains provisionally suspended. He can't be accredited as a coach. But she's made it clear that she wants him. to be able to coach her and be in her box. And how that is going to be possible, I don't quite know. But we wish her well and we will... give you any further news on that situation as and when it comes.
Tomorrow's order of play, folks, has another flavour of let's get the women out of the way about it. The Rod Laver Arena starts at 11.30am, eight hours from now, with Madison Keys. against Alina Svitolina. Second up is Emma Navarro against Iger Svantec. And then not before...
2.30, the day session men's quarterfinal, Ben Shelton against Lorenzo Sonego. And as expected, the night session is Yannick Sinner against Alex de Menor. I don't think anything was going to stop Channel 9 from getting Alex de Menor. 7pm tomorrow evening. And then there's some Legends men's doubles following on from that. You've got Hewitt and Filipousis against Bagdatis and Blake. Okay.
Tune in for that, folks. They're doing an Aussies against the world theme for the legends, which actually I think is quite cool. We'll lead the show tomorrow with you at Philippousis against Baghdadis Blake. I think everyone's going Sviante, can't they? We touched upon all of this yesterday. Keith Svitolina feels rather on a knife edge. Ben Shelton, obviously the favourite against Sonnego.
The question, honestly, is how ill does Alex Dimonor need Yannick Sinner to still be to challenge? Yeah, well, I've gone Dimonor in the old predictions, mainly because I absolutely need him. Winging a prayer to get close. David's in the Hail Mary stage of a glam slam. But I also think, you know, if you don't lace them up and get out there...
You're not going to win, are you? And Dimonor's going to throw the kitchen sink at him. That much I'm absolutely sure of. I don't think Sin has been that convincing at this tournament. He has lost a set against Tristan Schoolkate. He lost... a set against Holger Rune. That name's a blast from the past. I know. But he lost the first set against him and it was close in the second set.
I dare say Demenor will watch that and think, well, I'm a better player than Tristan Schoolkate and I'm going to bring it and I'm going to keep bringing it on a wave of emotion in front of my home fans. If ever he's going to get close, it is tomorrow night. I agree with all of that. I think Alex de Menor is going to lace up, get out there and absolutely bring it and lose. Let's see how ill...
Yannick Sinner was, because he really didn't look well the other day. He didn't look well, not at all. He looked how I'm probably going to look when my alarm goes off tomorrow morning. I don't think you're going to set an alarm. I have to, David, because tennis doesn't stop. Yeah, I don't want Yannick Sinner to be ill. No. You know, like, what I want feels impossible.
which is Yannick Sinner to be healthy and fine, and yet also this match to be really, really thrilling. I think it's going to be closer than you think. I really do. But because you think Sin has complied. I think it could be close-ish. Like I said, I don't think he's playing that well. I also think Dimonor has, in his words, got his legs back.
I mean, the last eight months he couldn't run about properly. He's really running about now and he's playing well. He's definitely going to run about. That much I agree with. Anyone see any upsets on the women's side? I don't think either Keys or Suvisalina winning would be an upset. It's kind of hard to go for that one. Anyone, anywhere picking Emi Navarro? I'm not. No. No.
No, hard to see, isn't it? What about Baghdadis, Blake, Hewitt, Filipousis? Well, do you remember the 4.34am match between Baghdadis and Hewitt all those years ago? Well, it is 3.27. Just now, David. And I still need to tell you about today's mascot. I'm very excited about today's mascot. It is stray.
Stray is owned by Carol Ray, who's one of our absolute loveliest friends and listeners. We met her at the live show. She talked to my dad for a long time and made him feel like a celebrity, which he very much enjoyed. And Carol's had a tough time recently. I mentioned that on a recent show, one of our preview shows. And actually, Carol was supposed to be here tonight at the Australian Open with one of the hottest tickets in town. And I was thinking of Carol tonight.
And I was absolutely thrilled when Stray was randomly selected to be tonight's mascot. Stray has been on the Tennis Podcast a few times already. And Carol says, the joy of having a rescue dog she came to us from spain four years ago frightened confused mistrustful and solitary although even then we could see she had the sweetest nature
Over the years, she's grown to be the most exceptional pet dog. Now she's confident, runs up to you to give you her toy reindeer whenever you get home, wiggles her bum hilariously when she wags her tail, enjoys a toast and marmalade breakfast. she's allowed points at butterflies, berries, bones and treats and unsuccessfully hunts the squirrel in the garden day after day after day after day. If there was an Olympic cuddle medal, she'd be in the running.
Billie Jean would be the Carlos Alcaraz to Stray's. Novak Djokovic in the gold medal match. Carol says she's happy and she's brought us so much joy and love. And that makes me incredibly happy to hear Carol. And yet we are thinking. view and we love Stray and maybe maybe you can bring Stray to a live show in London in the future it's a good idea we got special dispensation to bring Billie Jean last time didn't we so
Carol, we will work on it and we're sending you love. And just a reminder, if you'd like your pet to be a mascot this year, then you have just over a week to sign up. Entries close at the end of this month. A bit more than a week. What date is it? 22nd. Yeah. Just over a week. Big other mascot news today. Hello to Phoebe. Hello to Maisie on David's behalf. And hello to TBC, who is a very real thing now. We've seen a photo. In fact...
During a low moment earlier, I just stared at the photo of TBC, the puppy, because he was looking into my soul. And we're now calling him TBD. Yes. Because Carrie in America, that is what they say, TBD, not TBC. So Carrie actually had to look up what we meant when we said TBC. During a big intentionally blank moment earlier, I found myself googling Taylor Dent's middle name. Philip, by the way.
Tara Daniel doesn't have a middle name. No, disappointing. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. And Matt, we have some shout outs. We have Robin Hodge. Hello, Robin. Right, Robin, like Robin Sutherland. Same church, different pew. This is Robin with a Y. Ah, like the Swedish artist Robin. Yes, and Robin is in Melbourne. Oh, perfect. So probably fast asleep. Fast asleep right now. I hope so, if Robin is sensible. Hodge, like Roy Hodgson.
What a guy. David and I were talking about him this morning. I thought that would pep you up, a little Roy mention. He's managed both of our football teams in better times. In my case, anyway. Thank you, Robin. We've also got Joanna and Fiona Mallon in Sydney. Hello, Joanna and Fiona. Hi, Fiona Farrow and Joanna... Can't think of one. Went to school with Joanna. I've forgotten her surname. Awesome. A bit like Johanna Conte. Well done. That was a...
Great bailout, Matt. Thank you. I'm going with it. And we know Joanna and Fiona, and they would like to dedicate their shout-out to PJ Humphreys, who we also know, because PJ recommended the podcast to them back in 2020. Oh, PJ, you're a legend. Oh, that's lovely. And isn't Alex de Menor a Sydney sider? Does that work? I think he is from Sydney. Yes. Yeah.
See what I've done there? Yes. Sorry, my brain isn't working too well. Is that on account of it being 334 now? It might be, yeah. They are tennis friends for 25 years. PJ, Joe and Fiona. That is extremely lovely. Thank you, Joe and Fiona. And thank you, PJ. And finally, we have Bev Neal. And Bev would like to dedicate her shout out to Mark. Bev says Mark and I met in the Wimbledon queue in the mid 80s when we used to sleep out.
on Somerset Road. At the time, Mark supported Hannah Mandlakova and I supported Martina Navratilova, but we didn't let our differing allegiances stop us from forming a strong bond which lasts to this... day oh gosh that's lovely and Mark is responsible for introducing Bev to the podcast oh it's my favourite thing when people introduce
other people to the podcast so let that be a lesson to your listeners get in my good books tell everybody you know meeting in the Wimbledon queue that's that's good stuff isn't it Bev Mark thank you that's lovely folks Thank you for listening. I've enjoyed this despite the hour of the day and the leaf blowers. Me too, yeah. Although I am feeling a bit like what I said yesterday about how...
We'll be paying the price for all of our five-set fun. And that will be us tomorrow. Imagine if there had been a fifth set. This is not the latest that it could have been. There wasn't even a tie-break. We didn't even rant about the fact that the crescendo moment of the Australian Open took place at one o'clock in the morning and they had to be announcing the fact that there was no way for anyone to get home.
We're so, it's so normalised. We're so far gone, aren't we? The game's gone. So gone. The game's gone, but join us for more tomorrow, folks. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you then. Meet Sage Copilot, your new AI productivity assistant that understands natural language so you can get straight to what you need. Copilot. Draft emails to chase unpaid invoices. So, if you're a baker, like Diana, it could mean spending more time on what really matters. That's more carrot cake she can bake.
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