Alcaraz-Ferrero split!

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unexpectedly on this Wednesday afternoon. This is an unplanned freeform live podcast with myself, Catherine Rittigan, Matt Roberts, David Law, Matt Futterman from The Athletic. will be joining us very shortly. Indeed, we've been speaking to all of our contacts in the tennis world, pretty much all of whom are as shocked as you and I by the news that dropped earlier on today. The reason we are all here, which is the news that world number one Carlos Alcaraz has split from his longtime...

coach and self-labeled father figure, Juan Carlos Ferreiro. The news broken by Alcaraz on his own social media channels. This is translated from Spanish. Thank you, Matt Roberts. He says, it's very difficult for me to write this post. After more than seven years together, Juanqui and I have decided to end our time together as coach and player. Thank you for making my childhood dreams come true.

We started this journey when I was just a kid and throughout this time you've been with me on an incredible adventure both on and off the court and I've thoroughly enjoyed every step of it with you. We've made it to the top and I feel that if our sporting... So many memories come to mind that it wouldn't be fair to choose just one. You have made me grow as an athlete, but above all as a person and something I value greatly. I've...

enjoyed the process. I will remember that, the journey we've taken together. Now times of change are coming for us both, new adventures and new projects, but I'm certain that we will face them in the right way, giving our best as we always have done.

I sincerely wish you all the best in everything that comes your way I'm comforted by the knowledge that we gave our all that we offered everything to each other thank you for everything And those words were accompanied by a carousel of very moving photos, most of which featured Alcaraz Ferrero hugs.

Let me tell you, as somebody that searched Alcaraz Ferrero on Getty Images earlier, there is no shortage of hug photos. You could make several montages out of that alone. Ferrero himself followed very soon. after obviously a...

coordinated PR effort with his own statement. He said, today is a difficult day, one of those when it's hard to find the right words. Saying goodbye is never easy, especially when there are so many shared experiences behind it. We've worked hard, grown together and shared unforgettable moments.

I want to thank you for the time, the trust, the learning and above all for the people who have surrounded me throughout this journey. I take with me laughter, challenges overcome, conversations, support during difficult months and the satisfaction of having been part of something true.

truly unique. Today, a very important chapter of my life comes to an end. I close it with nostalgia, but also with pride and excitement for what may come next. I know that everything I've lived has prepared me to be better. Thank you, Carlos, for the trust, the effort and for making your way of competing make me feel so special. I wish you all the best, both professionally and personally.

I would also like to thank the entire team for making my work easier throughout all these years. With you, I've learned that work is not just about tasks or results, but about the people who walk alongside you. Each and every one of you has left a mark on me that I will never forget.

We have been an incredible team despite the difficulties and I'm sure you will continue to achieve great success. I wish I could have continued. I'm convinced that good memories and good people always find a way to cross paths again. Thank you from the bottom of.

My heart. Matt, what was your reaction when this news dropped? I was pretty shook, you know, I think like a lot of people. I was not on... alert for this at all you know we've seen our careers on vacation in miami yesterday he was doing some pre-season fitness testing i think everything appeared to be sort of business as usual in the in the alcaraz world you know kind of

kind of poetically reflected in his hair going back to normal you know like everything was normal in the Alcoraz world as far as I was concerned um so I was not expecting this at all but the first thing I saw when I opened Instagram was as you described, one of those hug photos from the carousel. And I immediately was like, oh, my God, this feels like that's going to be accompanied by some news.

And look, I think a lot of people are feeling shocked or stunned. And I think because, you know, the Alcaraz Ferrero... coaching player relationship is the kind of relationship that we all sort of like to romanticize right and we've and we've witnessed its entire arc and journey as Alcares has become the best player in the world

you know, like from their coming together when they were 18 and Ferreira turning down other offers and taking Alcarez under his wing and working together and turning him into the world number one or certainly being part of that.

You know, we've seen the hugs. I think we've all sort of got that kind of connection to this coaching relationship just from the outside. So it kind of feels like sort of shocking news to everyone. But... you know at the same time um there were some hints in the netflix documentary that kind of everything wasn't quite as rosy as it seemed perhaps um and yeah certainly i've spoken to some well

one spanish journalist in particular which i'll talk more about but he's sort of described it in in less shocking terms actually and and the more i've processed it and thought about it over the last few hours I'm still shocked, not going to lie, but I can make sense of it in a way that I sort of couldn't in the first initial stages of seeing the Instagram post. Yep.

People that aren't shocked by this news are some members of the Spanish media and Matthew, our camera operator, who claims he saw it coming, David.

TV still, whether we believe him. He claims so. Yeah. Did you see it coming? No, I didn't. I could claim to be wise after the event and, you know. We're going to hear from Matt Futterman as well, who I think was less surprised by the news, certainly than I was. And I think the reason... that I'm surprised is because of how reliant Al Kraus has always seemed on Ferraro and understanding of his importance and Ferraro understanding... of his own importance to Alcaraz. Maybe that's...

The cause of the friction, in the absence of knowing the exact reasons from each one of them, maybe he's asserted some of his authority and our crowds has taken umbrage to it. I don't know. When I think back now, yes, I can see the point made about that documentary. That documentary wasn't in tone what I was expecting. And I definitely had some problems with...

with the pitching of Arquaz as having to go on this journey of greatness. I didn't like that at the time. I didn't put all of that at Ferreira's door. I put that more at his agent's door, really, than anything else. But I also think maybe if you think logically about it, when you've taken over with somebody when they're such a young person, when they're a child, really, and then they become an adult.

and start to have as a parent i can see it with my own son opinions you know and you're trying to you're trying to sort of keep some control and some influence, and yet you've got to understand that they're going to have their own views, then maybe it's not that surprising. I think it just feels like massive news because... of how important he is in the game and how rare this is for a coaching story to take this sort of attention.

You know, for us to do a show like this about a coaching split is rare. I think maybe we might have done one if we'd have been doing this a year ago about... Djokovic and Murray starting together. And maybe when Murray ended with Lendl. But there's really not that many of them that can stop you in the tracks. And this really did stop me in my tracks. Yep. Me too. I can't claim to have seen this coming. I am now remembering all of the amber or red flags that came up while watching that.

documentary and same as you you know that documentary was not what I was expecting and didn't make me feel sort of warm and fuzzy about that relationship in the way that I was expecting but to claim that I saw this coming would be would be an outright an outright lie not so potentially though for the athletics Matt Futterman welcome Matt we checked in we checked in with you

and your athletic colleagues upon hearing this news. And you said, actually, that ever since watching the documentary, you had been on somewhat alert. for this news what level of shocked were you today i wasn't really shocked at all i mean i figured i was shocked a little bit of the timing just because um i thought i thought maybe next year it would come

I didn't think it would be this year. And also shocked a little bit by the, if it was sort of like an off-season plan, it seemed like the thing that he might have done a few weeks ago. rather than what are we mid-December at this point. So those are my two thoughts. And that's basically just based on like having watched. A lot of these relationships that are, like David said, you know, their roots happen in childhood years.

it's hard to sort of transition them to adulthood. That may not be what's going on here. But there are a couple, there are two, I mean, there's two sort of interesting phrases that I sort of... It stayed in my ears with those statements. One was despite the difficulties and the other was, I wish I could have stayed, which sort of, to me, supports sort of opposite.

uh potential conclusions about what was driving this and you know for all we know it had nothing to do with any um any like tension about Carlitos wanting to go to Ibiza more or something like that. It just may be like... family pressure and Juan Carlos couldn't travel anymore or something along those lines, which is what, you know, I wish I could have stayed may have been, or sometimes I wish I could have stayed is I wish we could have come to terms.

So just to pick up quickly on one thing you said, is it possible, given the sort of slightly surprising timing, is it possible that this did happen? a couple of weeks ago at the start of the off season and we're only hearing about it now or is it not possible enough these days to keep something a secret? I would think that would be possible especially because

Like Team Alcaraz is a pretty tight-knit group and it's mostly family. There's a lot of that around there. I mean, there's really sort of just like... a couple of sort of professional and outsider types, one being, you know, being Alberto Molina, his agent. And another being Juan Carlos and Sammy Lopez. And obviously he's got a fitness trainer and things like that. But he doesn't have like a massive posse there.

So if there were, if there was ever a group that could sort of keep things sort of quiet and tight, I would think it would be team Carlos. Yeah. We just don't know what we will know before too long, I think.

What went down? I would think so, sure. Do you think we will get the gory details? Sure. I'm always confident in that. I'm always confident in my ability or our ability or the ability of my colleagues to uncover gory details. Yeah. Information as a way of coming out, especially in tennis. I know it's purely speculation at this point. Genuinely, we've asked around a lot. Matt, I know you've got some tidbits from Spanish media.

Nobody seems to know exactly what the story is here, but Matt Futterman, or feel free any Mats to come in here, but I'm specifically directing it at Matt Futterman. Why did you see this coming? Why is this not a surprise to you? What did you see in that relationship? Is it purely what you saw in the Netflix documentary? Is it more about what you know of...

coach player dynamics generally and the expiration period they tend to have on them? I guess I saw just sort of, you know, in body language and tone sometimes and just... sort of general demeanor with Juan Carlos and Alcaraz's development is just at some point I thought he was going to get tired of sort of being spoken to as a teenager.

or a 15 year old, which is something I just, I guess I just saw a lot of. And like at some point, and I think many things could be true here because I think all of these sort of. All of these dynamics alter the calculation when a coach is deciding or a player is deciding whether they want to continue with this. coach player relationship. So I think.

There could be an element of that, an element of Alcaraz just being like, you know, I'm an adult now. I kind of want to be in charge. I don't want to take directions. I think you've seen that a lot with Coco Gauff. She definitely has the desire to be like the CEO of Coco Gauff Incorporated and, you know, rather than her father and sort of there's like a tension there. And that's just sort of a natural development and a healthy development.

that people can and do and should go through. So that's all okay. And then also some things that come into this sometimes is money. That is a calculation. And I guess as an American, I'm biased and I always think it's about the money. There was a general manager of the New York Giants football team who...

You know, used to say the more they tell you it's not about the money, the more it's actually about the money. Right. Yeah. And in tennis, it's generally and increasingly about the money. Well, I mean, like these coaching, I mean, coaches... a lot of they get a base salary but they also i don't know the the intricate details of the deal between the two of them but generally coaching coaching deals are you get some sort of base salary

And then you're getting like commissions on both sponsorships and on winnings. And as those things reach sort of gargantuan levels. Being the coach ends up being really good and the player and his business managers want to bring those commission levels down to keep the... the salaries and the compensation from getting too out of control. Like I said, I don't know that that's what happened here.

It's an inevitable thing that happens. And when someone's deciding about like, well, do I want to continue? Well, how much are you going to pay me? Is it worth it? And all of these things like get factored into just like they get factored into anyone deciding about what sort of job they want to pursue. Matt Roberts, does this all chime with what you've gleaned from your...

Spanish contacts. Matt's been deploying all of his degree-level Spanish today and we thank him for that. Yeah, a chance to... Send a WhatsApp in Spanish is a great thrill, has to be said. And I did that to... Alejandro Ceriza, who works for El Pais, one of the main newspapers in Spain, who's someone we see a lot at the Grand Slams. And, you know, he is right there in the Spanish journalist's, you know, pack.

that go to all the Alcaraz press conferences and have interviews. He's pretty in the know. He said something pretty similar, you know, which was in his words, again, I've translated this, but he says the change is a natural progression in Carlos's career.

Ferreira's profile was ideal for his professional launch and rise to the top of tennis, but now perhaps his needs are different. He's already 22, he knows the ins and outs of the elite level, and change could... be a beneficial stimulus to avoid complacency and a new challenge. Plus, and I think this is the bit that really chimes with what Matt's been saying, Carlos is increasingly aware of his own importance and status, and he's having more and more influence on...

the decision-making that surrounds him and his team. He says the timing might be surprising for a lot of people, especially coming off such a great... season and you know with the chance to complete the career grand slam just around the corner But the point he makes is that Carlos actually hasn't started his preseason training yet. Like, this is not a mid-preseason training move. It's literally starting right now. And I think that's why the announcement has come out right now, because...

Otherwise, it would generate gossip, right? Like, where is Ferreiro? He's not being seen at preseason. So he's starting now, and this is allowing Samuel Lopez, who is already part of Alcaraz's... And I think that was maybe a sign that Alcares was already thinking along these lines when he brought Samuel Lopez in full time earlier in the season. he's going to be the head coach. He's going to stay on as the head coach and sort of take the reins. So I think...

The timing of the announcement is very much in line with Alcarez starting properly his pre-season training after his holiday and the exhibitions that he's played. Alejandro also said that a factor was definitely Ferreira's desire to travel less. And I asked how big a factor that was. He said certainly not the main motivation.

He says several factors at play. From now on, I would say the working relationship between Ferreira and Alcaraz is over. There'll be no further collaboration. So no kind of like...

Ferreira will pop up at the slams or anything, right? No, this is it. This is a split. And yeah, look, I think it's an important moment for a player, right? To know when to move on from a coaching... partnership to know when it's reached the end of its lifespan and i think sometimes some players certainly with sort of fatherly figures can get a bit stuck and personally maybe to even

anticipate the end of the lifespan just before it. Right. And look, I thought Ferrero probably had more to give. I'm surprised. But like knowing when to move on and... It can be an important thing for a player to do, and I think it could be a big moment. Look at Sinner and Piatti. Exactly, which seemed like such a bold, ruthless thing to do at the time.

unquestionably the right thing for him obviously yeah that was that was in retrospect like an absolute masterstroke and vignazzi who he brought on is much more of like a Sammy Lopez kind of figure in terms of, you know, he's not this sort of icon of the game. He's a lot, he's, well, is he a lot? Yeah. I mean, sort of just. Stature wise. Yeah, I think the power dynamic is pretty clear in that relationship in a way that it wasn't necessarily.

right there with piatti who you know was telling sinner like how much time he should spend with his girlfriend and stuff like that i mean you know and i think and sinner was just sort of like yeah i i think i kind of want to make that decision at this point um And that's just, you know, I would say that's pretty healthy. But I suppose the Sinner-Piatti split did come at a time when...

Like, obviously Sinnoh was doing well, but if you remember, he just... He wasn't world number one. He wasn't world number one, and he just got pretty blown away by Sitsapass at that Australian Open, you know? And, like, there was a bit of a sort of... career reckoning moment whereas alcaraz it's not that you know i think there is a i would definitely draw a comparison to that but there is a key difference as well i would also start the clock on um

Pablo Karina Busta becoming a coach as well. I mean, I just... feel like he's been around Alcaraz since he was a kid too. They're incredibly close. He's showing up at his matches all the time. He listens to them. I mean, I go back to, I go back to like the first. Grand Slam match he ever played during the COVID Australian Open. And it was like me and six other people. And one of them was was Gran Busta.

He's been raised there. I would be shocked if at some point in the future he didn't become the Moya. He's the Irani. To Alcaraz, it's Paolini. Yeah. But without the doubles. Something like that. I'd go more Moya Nadal or, you know, rather than, you know, rather than. Frankly, Creny Buster is just glad to be mentioned in the same breath. There's Maya and Irani here. Absolutely. This is big for him. Pablo Crenia Buster is thrilled with this podcast right now. I am his hype man.

Everyone needs one. Not everyone has David Law. The point you've all made about kind of... all coaching player coach player relationships even the best ones having an expiration date and sort of knowing when that is and anticipating what that is Geary Nathan who I had a quick chat with earlier Al Karaz Sinner expert, author of Changeover, the Al Karaz Sinner book. We had him on the show earlier this year, fantastic journalist and writer.

reminded me of a recent quote from Gilles Savara about his split with Daniel Medvedev, who he'd been with for, well, seemingly forever, longer even than Alcaraz. and ferrero quite a lot longer actually and he described it as like uh being in a boat at sea um and he said at some point the engine stops but you don't see it

because the boat continues gliding. After a while, that energy is gone and you're stuck mid-sea trying to restart the engine. It's a great quote. And I guess he could be trying to sort of... You know, the gliding, I guess the point he's making there is the gliding can mask the stalling of the engine. And if you're Carlos Alcaraz and the stakes are world number one level high and...

fighting for the career slam high, you don't want to wait till you're stalling before you make the big decision. I don't know, David, what do you think? You've been speaking to Spaniards as well. You've done a degree in Spanish today. Yeah, I mean, Matt probably had more success because of his ability to communicate with them. But actually, I spoke to Manuel Sanchez, a Spanish journalist for FAA.

in London actually and I remember speaking to him when Alcaraz won his second Wimbledon and he just I think he's got a good reading even though he doesn't necessarily work in full time in tennis he just has a good sense and He thought that it was very much coming from the Alcaraz side. He said, I can't stand that up, but this is...

this is how the statements read to me and the things that he's hearing. And I just feel like if you go even just sort of nostalgically and with examples, you know, from the past.

There aren't coach-player relationships that really last for a career, even though it kind of felt like this... might be one of them just because of the type of the relationship they had and I realize that's me being naive and in hindsight it looks ridiculous now but but it kind of thought I I didn't see this moment coming personally but Tony Nadal and Rafael Nadal

You know, who would have thought that they would split? And eventually they did. I mean, obviously they still love one another and all the rest of it, but... The time came, and actually Nadal had significant results after that relationship ended. that most players have several coaches in their careers. And I do think that maturing process of a human being, if nothing else, they need room to...

And it means the coach has probably got to take a different role in their life in a way. And that is inherently challenging, I think, for both individuals. But at the same time, I wouldn't be that surprised if one day they started working together again. They're splitting now, but I don't think that that means that they won't work together again.

once they've maybe kind of reframed their dynamic, if the issue is like they've built their relationship on the foundations of a parent-child dynamic and which... one of them is now outgrown. Maybe if they can kind of redefine that dynamic in the future. Just to bring you Giri's thoughts, obviously he got to know... all of the dynamics very, very well over the course of writing his book and he...

He was shocked. He posted on Instagram that he was extremely shocked by this news. I said, do you have any idea what happened? He said, not really. But my educated guess is that it's either that Carlos was finally sick of him. or contract disagreements. He said it has to be financial or emotional because the on-court results are hard to argue with. He said just a year ago they built an elite serve. Imagine what else they could have done.

He said he thought they'd make it to a decade. So they were about three years shy of that. But yeah, logically that does check out, doesn't it? It can't be on the basis of results, can it? Like, results were resulting. Well, it's also weeks. Like, you know, I mean, when he says financial and this was... what I was getting at also in terms of the compensation. I mean, Juan Carlos is pretty clear about that. He doesn't really love to be.

away all that much and you know I've spoken with Darren Cahill about this and you know some other people who have like two coaches and it always comes down to like how many weeks can you give me and How much am I going to pay you for those weeks? And what weeks are those going to be? And because, look, let's face it, nobody, including the players, wants to be on the road 40 weeks a year, which is basically what they are.

You know, that's incredibly, incredibly trying for anybody to have any sort of personal life. And it's just a lot. And so I think in addition to... All the other dynamics that were going into it, you know, it's like anything. It's, you know, how much am I going to have to work and how much am I going to get paid for it?

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at Marshalls. So that's kind of speculation about educated speculation about what might have happened and what potentially precipitated this. We have to do what does it mean, Matt? You're welcome to leave if you can't be arsed with the hypothetical predictions about... what this might mean. This is your big opportunity to leave. If not, we're going to detain you for speculation. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

on what does this mean to... What does this mean for Alcaraz and what next? I think it means that he's... He's doing it. He's doing it. He's jumping right in. He's taking the bait. It means that, you know, the little boy is growing up, right? Like, he was going to grow up sometime. Like, he will, I think he will, like, retain. That sort of youthful, smiling spirit that still waves to you from 50 yards away when he hasn't seen you in a while. And he does that to a ridiculous amount of people.

So I think he'll always do that. I don't think like that element of him, that kid in him is ever going to completely go away. But I think he's going to like. I think he's going to be increasingly sort of in control of his destiny and making more decisions for himself.

You know, we'll see how he can handle that. That will be that will be something to take on and that will be something to navigate because it's not that easy and it's not that easy. And like, right. The you know, the the problem with. The problem with tennis, but any sort of athletic career, is that you're sort of forced into this CEO role when you're 22 and you absolutely are not qualified to be.

running a you know eight whatever it is business an eight figure business every you know eight figure millions and you know just more than a hundred million dollar revenue business a year like that's a that's a really big responsibility um but inevitably you sort of have to do it because you are the product and it's your time and you've got to like start making decisions and you you'll want to be making the decisions because it's about you. So.

I just think it means a new challenge for him in addition to trying to be really, really good at tennis. We'll see how he can... handle this and i do think that that was a transition that sinner made a little earlier and was well he's older so you know if we I mean, that's one thing we sort of forget about. We sort of put them right together. But between the parting with Piotti, the venturing off into his own sort of parting with...

his agent, Lawrence Franklin, and going on to sort of his own venture. Like, it's something that I think he was sort of more comfortable with and ready to take on. And now we'll see if...

Carlos is ready to take it on as well. That was all really, really smart and insightful. But what I mean by what does it mean is, does this make you... more confident about the career slam being completed in Australia, less confident, or does it make no difference whatsoever? Yeah, like this absolutely might be...

the best thing for Carlos Alcaraz in the long term, and presumably he believes it is, and that's why he's making this decision. But it could come at a short-term cost, right? How do we... how do we all feel, purely speculatively, about how this will affect Carlos Alcraz in the short term, whose most important part of the season is his first two weeks of the season. He has told us that.

He would rather win one Australian Open than two other slams next season. He wants to become the youngest man ever to complete the career slam. David, what's your feeling? Well, on our friend's Q&A show last night, we were asked by one of our barge contributors... Which of Alcraz, Sinner, Svontek and Sabalenka will complete the career slam in... And I actually said three of them, which I now think is, what was I thinking? Anyway, but until this news, I was going to stick with that.

And now my foundations have been rocked a little bit by this because I really did think Alcaraz was going to do it. I think Svantec's going to do it in Australia. I think that Sinner is going to win the French Open and Sabalenka's going to have to wait a while. But this, in the short term, I can imagine a little bit like when he made his tweaks to his serve and he's trying to do something a bit differently. When it gets stressful...

He's going to look over his shoulder for Juan Carlos Ferreira on that court. And he ain't going to be there. And that's never happened, I don't think, at a Grandstand tournament before, has it? Maybe it has when Ferreira hurt his knee once. I'm not sure. To me, that's significant. I don't think that that's...

insignificant at this stage of his life. I think he will get to grips with that and he might get to grips with it immediately. He's never looked more emphatic than he did at the US Open. He was sensational and I feel as though... One of the great things was he finished Wimbledon and he said to Ferreira and the team, I want to work out what I've got to do to beat this guy again because he's doing stuff that I'm struggling to cope with. And they went away and they...

built a game that dominated that US Open. And it was one of the fewest times that I've seen him looking over and feeling like he was leaning on Ferraro. But I don't... And in the long term, I think that that could be the net result of this move, is that he just doesn't need to do that. And then he becomes this complete player who's at...

an adult on the court and mature. But in the short term, I think the road could get a bit bumpy. That, I think, is what Matt Roberts is getting at, Matt Futterman, is, you know, could this be a bumpy road for a period? I think the, I mean, the wild card in all this is he's not playing another tournament before the Australian Open. I mean, this is just sort of, it's.

going to be sort of baptism by fire and um that's a little i would say if i were an odds maker i'd make the odds a little longer um for him to win in australia i mean he probably wasn't going to be the favorite going in anyway just because he's all i wouldn't think so just because sinners won twice in a row and he's probably better hardcore player still, despite what we saw at the U S open. Um, so yeah, it's a little more, I would say it's definitely like more challenging. There was a time.

Matt, when we sort of percolated a theory that actually Ferrero was a problem and a crutch, right? Like he went on a little spell of actually winning. having his best results when Ferrari wasn't there. Yeah, I remember, I think it was Queen's 2023, I believe, which was one that he won with just Samuel Lopez there. That was kind of an important tournament, I think, for Alcarez, that one. He'd been good, obviously, at the start of 2023, but he hadn't been absolutely...

as electric as maybe everyone had kind of expected. And this year he sort of kick-started his whole season with a win in Monte Carlo, which I think...

which I think, again, was a Samuel Lopez-only week. So he's definitely played good tennis, Carlos Alcaraz, when Juan Carlos Ferrer hasn't been around at tournaments. But it is different if he's... not around at all and i i i come down on the same side as yeah as david and matt really like sort of long term could could end up being a sort of good thing uh but short term it does feel does feel a little bit like

advantage sinner you know to to use a tennis term at the at the Australian Open just with that just with that stability I guess for Alcaraz though obviously he's known about the situation longer than we've known about the situation. His equation is, am I more likely to win the Australian Open if I get rid of Ferrero now than if I...

For us, the equation is even more likely to... He's less likely to win it now than previously on the basis of the knowledge we had previously. But for him... he's more likely to win it now that he's... I can only assume that given he's told us how much of a singular goal really that is for him for next year. he thinks he's now more likely to win the Australian Open and achieve that goal without Ferraro there, which I guess is a real indication of, you know, how... Unless he didn't have a choice.

Yeah, unless they just fell out at some point. But Raro said he wanted to stay on. Well, right, but that could also mean, like, I wish I could have stayed, but... I wish circumstances were different. I wish we could have reached an agreement.

But my marriage is falling apart or I wish I could have reached, you know, it may not have been ultimately his call. There's a lot of people speculating sort of in the chat and elsewhere. I've seen this, that this is about. Alcaraz not being disciplined enough and wanting to go to Ibiza and Ferraro not being into that and wanting to stop him going to Ibiza. Is that bollocks? How much is this about Ibiza?

I think that's bollocks. Or like what Ibiza represents, you know, what we use Ibiza as a byword for with Carlos Alcaraz, which is, you know, he's needing to let off steam. He's not being a totally machine. like being in the way that we unreasonably expect athletes to be. I could definitely see all being... All of these things could be factors. I could believe that it's not just one thing. And to Matt...

Futterman's point earlier about the fact that we'll end up finding out is I don't think either one of these two people have good liars I think that they're both very honest and I mean it didn't take long for Ferreira to spill the beans about why he and Zverev split up, for instance, if you think back. And I don't think Alcaraz is a great poker face, to be honest. So, you know, I think we're going to find out. But yeah.

I think it could be a number of things all wrapped into the one that's ended up with this situation. I do think that the one thing that came out of the Netflix Carlos Alcaraz commercial... was that there are these two sides to him, and I would say one of them might be represented by...

the sort of Ferrero Molina, like be the greatest in history. Like, yes, that is obviously part of his brain. He's given up his life for this mission. But there's obviously another side to him, which is, I would just say was summed up. in his mother which is like he needs like he needs to be like

a person and needs to have some quiet time. You know, I'm using that. I'm not, I'm using that term like, you know, in the most loose way, because I, I think some of Carlos's quiet time is not all that quiet, but like he needs.

yeah, like, as you said, to blow off steam. And I think there are those two, there are two, those two things in there. And so like, like was Ibiza the... like ruling factor and know I want to, you know, drink with my friends more, like maybe not, but like he does have to have a couple of, he has to, he has to have those two.

elements to his life in a way that you know there are other players that i meet who may not be as good as alcaraz but are truly like fully consumed by the pursuit of something and while i think carlos is to agree consumed by it all like Like I say, I think like he does really recognize the wisdom that his mother was expressing of like, yeah, he needs to sit around with all of us and.

you know, eat my roast suckling pig or whatever they were eating there. And, you know, and just be himself. Do you think there's any question now over Melina's position?

Or is he completely secure in that team? Albert Molina, his agent, who featured very prominently in the documentary. I mean, I think that's a larger question of like... I guess, like, were Ferreiro and Molina kind of tethered in some way? Like, does this make him a bit more of a... Molina did put him with Ferreiro. Right.

So I think it's – look, at some point, and it may have already happened just in – and it's just sort of in name only because whether he's – at some point, Carlos Alcaraz is – either is going to decide, like, does he want to continue to be an IMG athlete or does he want to do what all of the other greats have done, including...

Sinner, you know, already, which is, you know, why am I paying these people a commission when I can call up Rolex myself and get a deal and renew my contract with them? So, you know, and. But what has happened in those situations is that the IMG agent has left IMG to head up the corporation. individual corporation. You see that with Tony Godzick and Federer and you saw that with Nadal and how he went off on his own.

At the same time, you know, like there is IMG recognizes this and there they are sort of, I think, experimenting with structures because you saw that like. Coco Gauff has her own company that is sort of within the corporate realm of IMG. And so she's sort of neither fish nor fowl. both an IMG athlete and also has this Coco Gauff Enterprises. Naomi Osaka is another one who did it with Stewart, who was an IMG, who is an IMG agent and now runs.

Naomi's company. So it's a, you know, there's a, there's a pattern there. So it was, I mean, is Molina like quote unquote in trouble? I think like it's a, it's a, that is a, that is a very. That is a very layered question with all sorts of elements of the tennis business and what ultimately Carlos Alcaraz Incorporated becomes over the next...

10 years but really also over the next 40 years okay last bit of point the soon to be out of date speculation i'm afraid you have missed your your off-ramp matt so you're in this now If, if... It's like a Jewish... It's what we call a Jewish goodbye. You know, it takes a really long time to say goodbye. Right, okay. That's what we... Right. If Carlos Alcaraz were to seek a replacement for the head coach role rather than promote from within, who might he go for? Other than Pablo Karenja Busta.

David. Matt's all in on Corona Buster, so he's not even going to give you another option. I mean, it's funny. I did flick on the chat a moment ago and saw some names flying around. People like Marion Vider and... People like that that have worked with all sorts of people. Hannah in the chat is currently making the case that Roger Federer would not be a good coach. Good luck, Hannah. Was Andy Murray on a golf course today? I mean, probably yes. And did he get a call?

the thing is I do think it's quite I'd be surprised if he would have followed a big personality a big tennis personality like Ferreira who's been a world number one and is

is a pretty iconic coach. I'd be quite surprised if he followed him with another big name, with another super coach or another significant... Because I think, I suspect he does want to hear his own voice and I suspect he does want to... run things really and and and some coaches wouldn't wouldn't be prepared to be that you know and um so i i

I'm not convinced that we're going to get a name as such. I can believe Matt's view on Corinna Buster or people like that. Hang on. You're saying Corinna Buster is not a name. He's not a super coach in my book. He may become one. You know, there are people that have, I mean, Darren Cahill wasn't a super coach until he started coaching. You know, he wasn't coming out as an amazing ex-player.

But I just, I don't see him going big like that. And look, he may prove me wrong completely. He may have a cast iron plan. But I sort of feel as though he might end up having to... get it wrong a bit first and and think oh crikey you know this isn't all it was cracked up to be i need i need some a strong voice here who's been there and done it but i don't see that being

The next stage. Think of when Federer split from Lundgren and went for several years on his own. Just didn't have a coach. And then he had Tony Roach, I think, after that. But, you know, it took a while. Matt Roberts, take my bait, please. I mean, you're not going to like it, but I think you can underrate the role of Samuel Lopez here. He's his coach, you know, and I think that...

I think he has been an important figure. The Krenia Busta connection is to him, right, as well. You know, he coached Krenia Busta for many, many years. He's a serious coach. He knows what he's doing. He'll have been part of that.

remodelling the serve that that was so successful this year like I think my guess would be a period with him just him and you know kind of leaning into what Matt said earlier about you know the sort of Al Carrera's team being kind of like a family you know I think it would take it would take quite it would take quite a character to come in there from the total outside and

feel very comfortable instantly and for them all to feel comfortable with him you know like I think if it is going to be someone else if there is going to be a super coach role my expectation with that would likely be someone Spanish and, you know, like just generally just sort of to keep the sort of general sort of vibes. Okay, so it's basically Pablo Carreño Busta or nothing. Ferrer. No, the other one is Ferrer because Molina was Ferrer's agent.

And like made him an incredibly rich man. And like they are, I think they remain quite close. And so I don't know what Ferrer's personal life is like right now or whether he's willing to take on something like this, but. He would be another character that I would put in, you know, a collection of names of people that might at some point, you know, coach.

I think Pereira is still an IMG represented person. I'm not sure about that. But that would be the other name I would... that would be at the forefront of my mind because like i i do think like this The Spanish players particularly seem to be a lot of Spanish coaches. I think there's a reason for that. I think there's a lot of good Spanish coaches.

there's not necessarily a reason why they have to go get Darren Cahill. Like they have a pretty good crop of tennis minds going all the way back to, you know.

throw out jose higueras is about how far how far back my memory is going to go for spanish coaches you know which i guess gets me back to the late 80s so you know that's pretty far alvaro Alcaraz as well, could he be in for a promotion if everybody's moving up a rung? Does Alvaro upgrade from shit hairdresser to sort of sub coach? Is that his trajectory? And maybe when Carlos goes to Jaime Alcaraz and we just start this thing back up again. Right.

I mean, he's sort of been a, like, hitting partner slash vibes guy, Alvaro. Yeah, I don't think he's going anywhere. Right. By the way... Well, Uncle Tony got the push, didn't he? Matt was good at the what does it mean section, wasn't he? Very. Yeah. Very. Yeah. Good at the speculation. Excellent. Yeah. Any other... pointless speculation that will soon be out of date that anybody would like to proffer. No, I'd just like the season to start now.

And we're going to have four career slams? Is that what you said? Four career slams? I said three. Only three. Don't be ridiculous. Come on. So nobody now thinks Carlos Alcaraz is winning the Australian Open. We might be down to two now. I'm going to give that some further thought. Come back after the new year and I'll give you my definitive.

Yeah, there's a Friends Q&A show that we now need to expunge from the internet, recorded less than 24 hours ago. I'm just impressed that we're already at Yannick Centre winning the French Open. Like, we're so far away from... a ball dropping on red clay welcome to my brain matt i was gonna say matt you've listened to the pod before right like you know i

I am annoyed that this has happened after our Andy Murray interview. I'd love to speak to Andy Murray about this. Well, it's a golf course. He's on the 13th hole right now is my guest. Right. Yeah. Matt, it has been dark here for about two and a half hours. Not even Andy Murray is on a golf course right now. It's frigging grim. But this has been fun. Thank you.

Thank you, Carlos Alcaraz, for giving us something fun to do on this miserable, miserable winter's evening. Thank you, Matt Futterman, for your time and for getting in the spirit of all the pointless speculation. Loved that. Thanks for having me and happy Christmas, as the British aristocrats say, right? Happy Christmas to you. Disappointed, no Ziggy cameo. Do you want me to tilt my camera?

Yes, please. Literally in position. Yes. Yeah, let's see. Oh, there we go. There we go. Ziggy is a good dog. This is where Ziggy wants to say hello. There we go. That's where Ziggy spends most of her days when Amy is at the office. Seeing as we're doing this, it's Billie Jean. folks this has been great so many of you joined us yeah we'll do more of these as you know as and when news As Matt said, it'd be good to do our first emergency video podcast when it's not a doping ban.

bit of news like let's seize on this opportunity to do this when it's yeah it felt like a good test case we could have some fun with it news we can have exactly yeah you don't want to be doing pointless speculation about doping do you Right. But we will be back when some doping news drops to do one of these or other type of news. Thank you again, Matt.

You, Matt and David, go and enjoy your evenings, everyone. Happy holidays. We're back on Sunday with our next podcast. We're back with an edition of Tennis Relived on Friday for Friends of the Pod. on the subject of 50 years of wheelchair tennis. Why are you laughing, Matt? Well, you know, I had... today penciled in for working on that and that got that got ruined so busy day tomorrow to get ready for tennis relive right

Yeah, we will probably be back on Friday with our final edition of Tennis Relived for 2025. And we'll definitely be back on Sunday with our next pod. Who knows what we'll be talking about, but tennis always delivers. content so uh whatever it is we'll be here to chat about it thank you so much for your company tonight thank you all happy holidays goodbye

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