Ep 33 Revisiting Past Conversations: Navigating the Maze of Perfectionism: A Deep Dive into Self-Compassion with Nicole Love, LCSW

So , whether it's a favorite you've missed or a gem worth revisiting , let's dive in together and be inspired . Hi everyone , welcome back to another episode of the Tele Wellness Hip Podcast . I am here with Nicole Love , an LCSW who helps millennial high achievers , perfectionists and people-pleasers overcoming anxiety .

Nicole's goal is to help you manage uncomfortable emotions with mindfulness so you can be present in your lives . She's going to share with us about self-compassion . She sees clients all over Indiana to telehealth , but we're going to dive in and learn how . I guess , as a millennial myself , I fit this category .

I'm excited to hear more about what we can do to help ease the anxiety or uncomfortable emotions through mindfulness , because it's so well done , nicole . Thank you so much for joining us .

So it was interesting family dynamics in the in the love household . She actually went to school for social work but only went like I think a year or two before she got pregnant with me . So I think that's kind of what led me to we didn't have any therapists or a family therapist to kind of help support us through that process .

You know , in the 80s and my family was , you know , we don't talk about it , just carry on like everything is normal . So , like I said , I wasn't cognizant of it but I was like , okay , mom went to school for social work . I have this like real-life experience . Let's do this . Also suck at math and science . So that seemed really good .

And that question because I think it's a nice reminder to listeners who are curious about wellness or seeking therapy in their own life that we are also , as providers , human , who have shared human experiences , and even though we are part of the mental health system , we've also experienced the high blows of that mental health system .

And I wanted back up and just ask , if I stop me . If it's true , what age did you start experiencing seeing , maybe , your mom going to seek treatment or meeting additional psychiatric care ? Was it from birth ? Was it something that was kind of woven into your upbringing ?

I can remember being in my bedroom and my mom came in there and she was like , come outside with me , come outside with me .

I was like , okay , she had me look up at the sun and she thought the government was following her in the sound , like she had these people I believe she saw and because I mean she would be having a full blown conversations , look like , with herself . But I now , looking back , understandings schizophrenia .

Yeah , it's like she believed Mr French was in the sun and we would walk in the yard . It's like , look , see how the sun follows you . Well , the sun just doesn't anyone , you know it , just it just moves . But yeah , she would be in full blown conversations with herself .

And I didn't know that was probably like the first , her first like manic not manic , but her first like psychotic break . So I would , you know , I was too young as to be like she's not right , something's not right .

And then shortly thereafter she had her first hospitalization because my mother , when she was well , very soft , spoken , very kind , but when she would go off of her medication she would become aggressive , irritable . You can kind of look in her eyes and see , oh , oh , this is , this is , this is not the same person .

So I'd say about eight to ten is when it first started and she passed away in 2002 . I was 20 years old . She had a brain aneurysm , just unexpectedly . But I believe that the way she lived her life like she just wasn't a very healthy person .

People that have that type of diagnosis they tend to , you know , their mind is elsewhere so they're not really focused on diet , exercise , things like that . She just didn't live a very healthy lifestyle . You know she depended on marijuana for probably , but she's probably using it in high school and just used it all up until her last days , every day .

So , and that's not good for someone with schizophrenia that's just making it worse right hindsight's , 20-20 , you don't know these things going up in the 80s and 90s , but I tell people when she died it was , yes , I was sad , but there was also a part of me that was like I don't have to worry about her anymore .

You know very , very I mean just very chaotic home environment when she wasn't right . You know now , when she was taking her medicine things were smooth , but that wouldn't last very long .

So I appreciate you sharing that perspective , because sharing , as someone who's a child going through this , you know , and now , when your clinicians lens could have an understanding when you're helping others to , in just a whole new level of understanding . And also I think it's important that people understand when they go see a therapist .

I sometimes would hear people in my practice say you know , I don't want to say something metal , it's too much . There's not really too much . Yeah , you can share , you can share , you can share . Of course there's limited confidentiality , right , but absolutely , yes , absolutely .

But the idea is this is truly a space where you can share maybe what you were raised to not share with others .

So I wrote about my mother's mental health journey and Mrs Felling was my teacher and she wanted to enter my what I wrote to like a subtype of contest or something like that . And I remember she she had to get permission from a parent and so I said , oh , you can call my grandma .

So I was really excited as like , oh , something , some , you know , someone sees something and you like a gift or something like that . And I can remember my grandmother . She told Miss Felling no , because she didn't . You know , we don't want to tell our family business . But looking back at it now I get it .

But I was crushed and I was like I didn't really put too much more effort in writing after that because it was like you know , what message does that send a 14 year old ? It's like here's this opportunity , but I did something wrong is kind of like the underlying thing , you know , but I get it . I get where grandma was coming from .

But I'm curious . You went to grad school , yes , and then you're looking at social work and continuing the journey your mother had started when at one point and it just kind of was like a continuation of all of that and your life journey kind of led you to this point .

Can you share because I haven't really talked a little bit about what it looks like to train in social work , what that looks like in terms of school , after school and hours and internships , all of that ?

So I have my undergrad and I got my BSW in social work . And then I was like I don't think I want to be a social worker , I'm going to shift over to early childhood education . I got my master's degree in that , worked in that field for a while .

Then , I think in 2013 , I was like I want to go back and you know , with the BSW you mostly do like case management type stuff driving to people's houses , things like that . So I hit my limit on that and I was like I want to do what ? Go back in that room behind that door , I want to do what's going on back there .

So I moved back home and enrolled at USI in Evansville , indiana , and so I worked full time , went to school part time , took me two years to get my MSW and , let's see , you got to do that research project at the end which kind of requires some math science . A lot of tears went through that and had to have a lot of help , but got through that .

And then the thing that really bothers me about the internship part is in social work . I don't know if it was like this for you , marta , but you know it's unpaid . So it's like you're doing an unpaid internship . You're already working in a probably a community mental health agency , so you're not making much money at all .

And then the school is like you have to do it full time . You have to get so many hours I can't remember how many hours it was , but it was a significant amount Took a whole semester to do it and I remember having to lower my hours at my full-time job because I needed more internship hours . Very frustrating .

I would like first schools to change that , because I think that's BS , you know .

Yeah , so after you graduate and get your MSW so I think that was around the time so 2015 in the state of Indiana they had changed the laws where they said you have to take your LSW exam first , so you have to pay money for that Study , study , study , Pay money for the study materials . Yeah , pay money for the study materials .

You take that test and then so I got my LSW . I think I took it very shortly after I graduated in 2015 . So after you get your LSW , you have to do like 2,000 hours of clinical work , so it kind of equals out to like a 40-hour job . It took two years to do that .

And then every week you have to meet with your clinical supervisor and they're pretty strict on the social workers you can only your supervisor has to be a person that has LCSW . You can't get it from like an LMHC , lcpc , what I thought .

They were more flexible with the other disciplines , like you could have different credentials behind your name , but they were very strict . If it's not an LCSW , then your hours don't count . So 2,000 hours later . So that's what 2017 , 2018 , in December , is when I was ready to take the LCSW exam More money for the test , more money for the study materials .

And then it's very stressful because it's like I want to get this down the first time and there's some statistics out there that especially people of color don't tend to pass that test the first time . I did pass it the first time , thank goodness , but I was prepared .

I was like , hey , it's a 50-50 chance , you're either gonna pass it or you're not , but I was prepared to take it more than once because a lot of people don't pass it the first time . It's difficult , it's very difficult .

I wanted to highlight that because I think when people are scrolling through to find a therapist , I like to share people's backstory like what their life experience has been , what they're training , their years of unpaid work sometimes or minimally paid work , and meeting paying someone sometimes to meet once a week to sign off on very strict documentation .

The things that they ask us to do , to become a social worker , to be able to help other humans feel empowered and transform their lives , I mean I get it , but then there's some of it I don't get . It's like they ask so much from us .

So I thank you for your commitment and dedication to help transform lives , because now all of that , you've arrived in this moment that you can share the opportunity to transform and empower others , like you shared and let's talk a little bit about that , because you're helping a millennial high achievers , perfectionists and people-pleasers overcoming anxiety .

Tell me a little bit about what you typically see . How do you know someone or someone listening ? How do you know if they're maybe diving into that area where they're to the point of being a perfectionist or a high achiever that's leaning towards people-pleasing and anxiety ? What does that look like on a daily basis ?

high achiever and being ambitious , but there's kind of this fine line where just over giving to work and not investing anything in yourself or your personal life like there's room to do both . But what I find is people tend to be over focused on career , things like that and then they're struggling in what is it ?

Intra and interpersonal relationships , because no boundaries with themselves , no boundaries with work , no boundaries with work , no boundaries with the people in their lives , because they don't want it . The perfectionist you don't want to disappoint anybody , you want to be seen in in a good light by everyone , but that that becomes a problem .

I'm speaking from experience myself , talking to myself , to mark , I'm recovering Perfectionists , people pleaser . You know , I grew up with a parent . My dad was very strict . He had very high expectations of you .

Know what , what I was going to do and how it , how it should be just very rigid and still trying to unlearn that at 41 years young now , you know , but it's kind of sad . It seems like it's easier to be , really , you know that loud inner critic .

You're really hard on yourself , like your inner dialogue , but for some reason you're able to be compassionate and understanding to other people and and that that's how I , you know , challenge my clients , you know , by saying you know how would you treat a friend ? What would you say to your daughter if they said they were struggling ?

Or what would you say to , you know , your spouse , your partner ? That seems to help people kind of get outside of themselves . And because the self-compassion , the skill of it , is pretty easy but Offering it to yourself is is a challenge , especially initially , because many of us are used to just being a just , not an ally to ourself , not supportive . I was .

I was reading this book called calling in , the one by Catherine Wood Thomas , and there is a Chapter in there where she encourages the reader to be their own mentor and I was like , oh , that that kind of helped me in my head . You know being a friend but also being a mentor .

You know being supportive when the shit hits the fan Instead of this is all your fault . You've done it again . You can't do anything right . You know that just makes you feel smaller and smaller and smaller and bad about yourself instead of well , that didn't pan out the way I thought it would . It's okay to make mistakes .

Perfectionists get real tight when you say that and tell them it's okay to make a mistake . You know there's no , there's , there's no way to be perfect .

When it comes to that Recovering from being a perfectionist and utilizing that self-impaction , we talked about how it's easier to To acknowledge the skill right , maybe like , or to have the skill , but to implement it , to put it into action . You know , it's like people say , give yourself some grace . Okay , well , like , how do I do that ?

Are there specific techniques or exercises that you recommend ? I love the the suggestion of asking the question how would you talk to a friend ? How would you talk to your spouse ? How would you talk to a loved one ? Do you have any other techniques ?

What's really true is well , this , this thing that I tried to do , or this situation , I failed , or it didn't work out , but does it ? It's like you over identify with feelings , work , accomplishments . It's like you're not your feelings , it's just trying to separate that .

So I'll ask clients to ask themselves Questions like what's the most helpful way for me to think about this ?

How can I be kind to myself in this , in this moment , you know , recently , I'm recently coming out of the depressive episode and so some things that happen when you're depressed , you don't move as much , and so I put on , put on weight and I have to buy bigger underwear , was mortified . So I was like , okay , how can we bring compassion in into this ?

And and Look at maybe the flip side , like the positive side , like one I could get the bigger underwear , the bigger underwear , and we're comfortable on my body and I don't have to always wear this bigger Underwear , I can get back on track and start moving my body . And it's like in Kristen nefs .

I like Kristen nefs to stuff to the self-compassion , hurt , mindful self-compassion workbook . There's an informal practice in there where you can kind of say , may I begin to Offer myself compassion , like may I begin to accept my bigger body , may I begin ?

Because sometimes you're not ready , you're just like you know you want to do that , but you're like I see he's not there yet . So I like that , may I begin , like that intention , so that that will . That helps me . But I think the mental noting Just to yourself and just admitting to yourself , I feel sad , I feel embarrassed , I feel Humiliated , I'm angry .

I think that one for women especially . We don't want to be seen as angry . It's almost like it's it's not allowed , but it's . It's an okay emotion , it's just what can become . A problem is the behavior that comes after the , the anger . But there's a way to manage the anger appropriately .

So I think , mental noting and just being truthful with yourself , admitting I'm having this feeling and it's hard , hard for me . This is a moment of suffering . Yeah , ouch . Even saying ouch , that hurt instead of he doesn't matter , I'm fine . You know the classic it wasn't a big deal . Whatever someone says that it was a big deal , it it did hurt .

So just starting that simple step of just being honest with yourself and admitting how you feel and that it hurts .

So I mentioned in the beginning I , according to some classifications , I am a millennial . According to others , I am not right on that past right , that geriatric right we're referred to . What do you think it is about a Millennial population that you see this come up so much ? I mean , I've seen the research .

This comes up a lot for I'll say us , because in some Portia sub descriptions I am part of that group . Why do you think that is ? I know you specialize working with that group a generation now , that might be a full conversation .

You have some similarities there . But as far as you know your question , I don't know . What does the research say ? I mean , I don't , I don't know .

The way that I've seen has to do with the Overpouring , if you will , of information that our brain has to kind of try to digest and and that affects our ability to like make the Best decision . When all of a sudden we have Google to help research , what would be the best , what would be the ?

And it's changed a little bit of the way our brain must Gather and process information , including perhaps about ourselves and our goals , and also technologies seems to play a role with disconnect , disconnection from Social support systems . That's what I've seen .

So it's just like you're just kind of on your own with Emotional issues unless you had somebody in your life who would just had a strong Emotional IQ , you know , and could communicate and teach you those things . But I think now many humans are benefiting from having more counselors in Elementary school , middle school and high school .

Like people are just talking about it more . Yeah , I don't know that could be .

So I'm grateful that there's a space that you are creating for Millennials and I'm sure you work to work with other age groups too , or that's your specialty , or yes , I'm here in Bloomington , indiana , so I do have see some , some IU students , but you know I put in a lot of time with teenagers .

I want to talk more about Just you , sharing your own personal experience , bring you up fresh perspective Of what it looks like to practice self-compassion with yourself , brain , just your , your truth and your expertise . I really appreciate you sharing that and creating that space for people , just so that they know the door is open .

You shared we wanted to do what was in that door , that private , closed door when you were a caseworker , and I feel like right now you open the door for people who've been like , should I go to therapy ? Like , should I look at what happens behind that door ?

And Creating a space where you share , like what kind of questions , the kind of conversations like it might come down to talking about it's buying a different size of underwear and how to practice self-compassion there . I love that . I really appreciate your fresh , your fresh perspective on on those topics . I think it's important .

So , for anyone who is working on setting some goals or or working on their wellness goals maybe they're considering going to Therapy or working on any kind of wellness goal what kind of words of encouragement do you have for them , especially as someone who specializes with self Compassion ? What words of encouragement do you have for them ?

That can be daunting for some people , but just being kind with yourself . During during the process I've had a couple you know , newer clients that have said I tried therapy two years ago , went to one session and I Just , I just didn't go back and , you know , just normalizing and validating that it might not have been the right time .

It's okay if it , if it doesn't pan out , but I think the fact that they tried again says a lot that they care . They care about themselves , like just Putting yourself first , I think , taking care of your own Wellness , your , your mental health .

It's the same as to me , as you know , going to get your teeth clean twice and you're like it's important , you schedule it . And if you know , I'm not one of those people that think everybody needs therapy . I don't really subscribe to that because I Don't know people's backgrounds and experiences . But if you feel like you do want to go into therapy .

Get , give it a try and don't get discouraged . If you know you meet with the first therapist and it just it's just not a good fit . It's kind of like test driving a car you might have to do a couple of . You know , meet with two or three people first to see you know if the , if the vibe is good .

Yeah , if you feel listen to you , if you know if , if the sometimes I hear , well , I won't go into that , but you just want to feel heard . You want to feel like you can Be honest with your , your therapist , and you don't have to tell everything . It's because you go to therapy does it mean you have to tell all the skeletons in the closet right ?

You don't have to tell everything , you just address what you want to address at that time .

You know , if I ask you a question about something and you're not comfortable answering it , I just say , just tell me . Just say hey , I plead the fifth . I'll never answer that question , nicole . I say great , I just write client uncomfortable answering . So it's like it's it's a reciprocal therapeutic relationship .

You don't have to answer every question that someone asks you 100% .