The Bear | S3 E3 Part1 "Doors"

Um , I think the thing that really holds it all together and we're gonna , we're gonna see that today in today's episode is um , vibrant , uh , collaboration just on every level , is , is , is , is what is going to happen , not not just between you and me , boss , uh , between Carmi and everyone , and there you go , Interrupting the dream wave .

This is our vibe , and then usually we do have bishop to step in and be like oh , let me explain how these things relate . Um , I think actually this might work for this episode you and me .

God help you . Number one I don't know what brought you here , but sorry about the trip . Number two um , my whole thing about this season is that I say it is intentionally , emotionally painful to watch , and that's my take on it . I think that the showrunners knew exactly what they were doing and also , I fucking love it .

I love every second of it and this episode . When I was re-watching it , I was like , oh , they did it in this line , and then they did it in this line , and then they did it in this line , and then they did this line , and then they did it in this line . And all of this makes so much sense to me .

This is the comparison that I saw on Reddit and I really should start taking screen names that I could credit people for . It is that somebody said if you haven't grown up in Chicago , you don't understand some of the geographical references , and if you haven't grown up with this sort of trauma and dysfunction , you don't understand all of the emotional references .

And I don't want that to sound like anybody who didn't like the season is too stupid , or ? too unemotional or anything else . It's just like they are shouting Like if somebody on the show said Devin , if they were like , oh yeah , up on Devin Avenue , we would know something about that character that people outside of Chicago don't .

Because it's Devon , it's Devon Avenue . Devon means a thing and the fact that you called it Devin means that you are not this is , you're not an in group .

So like who grew up in chicago would all of a sudden know so much about pete if pete said devon avenue , that would be a level that we get , that just by nature of our experiences , not better or worse or anything like that . But when I watch some of this shit I'm like , oh , I get , I get that .

I know that 100 and other people are like can you fucking do something instead of making raviolo again ? And I'm like , but they can't , that's not what they wanted .

You know , that's one of my favorite quotes in anything is the Jim Broadbent character in Hot Fuzz .

When his own police force I hope it's not a spoiler for anyone when his own police force sort of questions his leadership , uh , he , he yells about a london boy , nicholas angel , that he's not even from round here , which is absolutely mind-blowing to him , that anyone like , because how could you ? Trust from around here . How could ?

It's yeah , um , so , yes , I think I , I would tend to agree with you about that . Uh , I , I there's an element of about season three .

We're gonna , we're gonna get into this , but there's an element about season three where the viewers who really loved it , I think okay , so to mollify or to explain to the people like me who weren't as high on it it's forcing people like you who did like it or who loved it , whatever , whatever the spectrum is on the positive side of of the scale , um , to

explain it and and and I think that's actually unfair of . I don't expect . I don't expect an explanation to be to be totally honest with you . I think it's great when people love shows . Um , my kids were , you know , we talked about we , we , we've been doing this thing at dinner where we have everybody .

We're sharing responsibilities and trying to teach the kids how to cook . It's actually been great for conversation because it forces us to sit down . And I was talking about guilty pleasures , something I brought up the other day . I was like you know , you guys , you don't have to hide your guilty pleasures from us . I have so many embarrassing .

I have shows and movies . They're not good , they're like , objectively not , but I like them and and okay , like either , you have this you know it's a blip of an existence on this planet , right , going through space at a million miles an hour , and that's not accurate .

But you know , we're , we're all just tumbling , tumbling through the nether and if you can get your joy anywhere , I think it's . I think it's fascinating , I think it's wonderful and everybody should embrace that . I don't expect people to explain to me when , when , why or how they liked it . I don't .

The thing I sort of gets my hackles up , so to speak , is when people are like , oh , you didn't get it , you just didn't get it , and I'm like no , no , no , no , no , I think I got it . I push back against that a little bit because it's one of those things where it goes is it for you or is it ?

If Chris Storer did , did what you say he did , boss , then it wasn't for me , like I wouldn't have chosen that , and that's okay , that's all right . It's still a great show . It's still a show that is like head and shoulders above every other show . But this happens all the time with creatives .

You have to make choices , you have to pick a direction , and if this is direction they picked , then great , great . You're of the mind that it's intentional ? I'm I'm leaning more towards that . It's an unintentional sort of uh trajectory , but there's no way to know .

Um , we just have to sort of agree to disagree about that , and I'm thrilled that people loved it and , and , and I think I think it's wonderful , it's a magical show . Um , the more people can get out of this and any other show , uh , the better .

I wouldn't call any like nachos guilty pleasure food . They're just fucking good um right the only thing that I will say is that I think there is I've said before on the show that my um creative writing instructor in college , the one creative writing class that I took , because that was not going to be my thing .

I was not going to write novels , I was not going to make up shit , I was going to write about what I thought about other things . But they said you don't . You can push the reader's levels of believability , but you need to come up with a defense .

Like you should be able to write a five paragraph essay about why your story makes sense , like what you were trying to do and the steps that you took to accomplish it . And then we could say well , they thought that this was going to do this and that failed . Or we thought that this was going to be this and they succeeded at that .

Like saying that you like or dislike something for me is different from saying they succeeded or failed at what they were going for . So I don't like rom-coms . They're not my jam . I don't eat the best ones in the world I'm still not going to like , because I don't want to see that story , that's .

It isn't emotional to me to find out that everything works out in the end the way that you were expecting it to the best rom-com in the world .

I'm still not going to enjoy or like or want to watch , but it would be improper of me to say it was a bad movie if somebody could say , no , we're trying to go for these things and this is what they achieved . If somebody could say , no , they were trying to go for these things and this is what they achieved .

So , like I disagree with the idea that , like that , we can't know if a creative was successful in the story . They were trying to tell if it was successful in reaching that , because we could point to actual elements of the story and say was why they did this ? This is why they picked this , how much you liked it .

Can't argue that you can't make some like , make somebody like something that they don't like , but you could say , no , they actually did make their case for this thing .

It might not have been effective to you in the same way that , uh , fucking , ray fines and jennifer lopez falling in love is not going to be effective for me , but I would have to acknowledge if they took the steps in order to get them to a place where it's reasonable that they would have fallen in love yeah , that sounds like something that would have that

you would have said and you did um , I , uh , I .

So then everything became hyperbole . So it would say , like the worst character on TV right now , or that it just became about how far can you stretch the level of believability , or how how much can you entice someone to click on something ? All you need is that click Once you get them to commit , that's it .

So it changed critical analysis to a large degree , which is why that concept , the way you're talking about , doesn't exist , at least in print , and print has died so much that , like that used to be the basis of all . What was this filmmaker or television producer or whatever , seeking to accomplish , and did they or did they not accomplish their goal ?

Um , my , my , my analysis is is far less , um , uh , competent . It's just that some people check out shit and they like it or they don't , and a lot of people don't have the time to do that one degree of analysis oh , what were they trying to accomplish ? And no , they don't have time for that , they just go . I don't know , I liked it .

I , you know , I put on the to accomplish , and no , they don't have time for that , they just go . I don't know , I liked it . I , you know , I put on the music , I liked it . I don't give a shit if it's this person , I don't care that it's this , whatever . And so , yes , I think we're saying generally the same thing .

I just think , whether it's the way you , what they like , whether it's , you know , society typically frames it as a guilty pleasure , which is why I use that term .

But you're right that , hey , what people like is what they should like and they shouldn't have the pressure of social mores or some sort of , you know , matrix of what's good and what's not good , and if they're outside that matrix , then it's a shame . Right to your point , you're absolutely right that we should just like what we like .

Um , it's difficult , especially for , you know , younger people and the pressures of society , especially in the age of social media . One of the things about gen z is like the overwhelming pressure to not step out of line . It's like sort of an epidemic facing that particular generation . They're terrified of making a mistake .

So it's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to my kids about it because I'm like listen , just like what you like and how it all plays out in the social world . Who cares ? But like in your heart of hearts , if you're sitting here , you don't have to qualify to your dad . Oh yeah , I kind of like this crappy show . You like it , you like it .

You know , even the worst shows or the worst pieces of music or the worst video games sometimes have like one key element that so aligns with the core value you may not know that you have , that it becomes important to you .

And who's to say that that's wrong or improper or not cool enough , whatever it is , I think we can agree that , um , you know , people should like what they like yes , it's just that .

My point was we should be doing critical analysis mike , not everybody , not everybody can is what I'm saying I know , but that should still be what people aim for .

That's what I hear , wait say that again . I'm hearing what you warned me not to do , which is oh , here's the right way , here's the gold standard of how we should behave or how we should view people , or how we should do something , it doesn't matter . Fill in the blanks it's one person defining how something should be done to a group of people .

That's what I'm hearing .

I'm not pretending that they're , and obviously this has everything to do with the bear of the TV show that we're supposed to be talking about , Right , but I I believe that that is a skill , that sort of analytical critique of any sort of artwork . That isn't a bad skill to have .

I'm not saying everybody should have to do it , that in order to talk about your favorite TV show , you need to have passed some sort of test or that there are all these canonical works , where these fit the ideal of being critically unassailable . So we are going to teach these and only read these , and you should only like those .

Like whatever the fuck you want , absolutely like whatever the fuck you want . What I'm talking about is I texted you and coach last night about somebody on Reddit who asked did Cicero have something to do with Michael's death ? And then the question was obviously it could just be . He's a nice person .

But during the rewatch of season three , cicero talks a handful of times about how he feels like it might be his fault and wishes he could have done more for the kids , but never or rarely mentioned specifics . Maybe he directly or indirectly got Michael hooked on whatever he OD'd on .

Maybe he introduced it to him because he thought that would help with his mental illness . So that's not about this person's opinion of the show . This is that this person watched the same episodes that we watched , got the wrong information wrong in the fact that Mikey didn't know D Mikey shot himself . That is flat out wrong . Yeah .

Built an idea based on that about his understanding of who Cicero was as a person and then developed a theory . This is not if the person liked the bear or not . This is the person watched the show and got information and developed wrong , got the information wrong , developed thoughts that are outside of the show .

What I am saying is there should be a method by which we could say to people you're wrong about that , your opinion of the show , whether you like it or not . I am not going to critique that .

I'm going to say , when you present me with information saying I think Cicero had something to do with Mikey's death , I I have to be able to say no , dude , fucking no .

There are things that are absolutely 100% opinion and then there are things that are 100% fact and we should be able to understand discussing those two things in different ways this is why we never agree on anything .

Uh , you know , sisera had something to do with the drugs that eventually led to the , the , the final , uh , you know , coup de grace .

Um , I didn't think they , they , whatever it , uh , I , I guess I don't feel a need to police the wrongness of of interpretations . I would , I would , I just don't I . It's one of those things where you go , you know , where you said hey , don't tell me who I can hate . I have , I have a interminable well of hate , hatred to draw from .

It doesn't bother me at all . So I'm not like that . If I hate , if I hate someone , it bothers me every day . If I , if I'm at odds with someone , if I have what it like weighs on me .

Um , so , trying to uh be the policeman of the world , so to speak , with regard to , let's say , let's say we agreed and we say that's a bad take , I go , okay , well , that person's entitled . Their bad take , I don't know , I don't care , I'm moving on , I don't whatever , so I don't have whatever .

It is where you feel like yes , we should be able to say like no , sir or madam , you're incorrect . Okay , great , that , that's fine . I I , uh I , as long as it's not my job , be my guest , I I , it's something that , uh , in , in , in an effort to be curious and not judgmental , I I go , okay , like interesting , that that's .

You know , what does it say about the person that ? That's what they pulled out of it . Are they having thoughts of of , uh , you know , did they , did they contribute to someone's death ? Is that ? Is that ?

In the same way I just said , we can pull any little factoid out of a show or a little moment that aligns with our core values and informs us about ourself . Maybe something about that dynamic appealed to that person in a way that got them to , yes , be incorrect about how Mikey very clearly died .

But maybe that's an insight , a little glimpse into their personal life , as Ted might say .

There are , I would say , these things I felt like they did poorly , or these things they did well , but it wasn't for me .

If we're talking about a show , if there's something about this show that impacts enough people that they want to be talking about it online and other places , yeah , enough people that they want to be talking about it online and other places .

Yeah , I feel like there does need to be a separation between this is what I like and this is what I think they did poorly , and when we're saying this is what they did poorly , that cannot be . In my opinion , this scene didn't work . It needs to be . In my opinion , this scene didn't work because they tried to do this and they didn't do this .

Like if you say I fucking hate , Sidney . Ok , if you say Sidney isn't good enough to be working in this kitchen , then I need you to back that up . And I'm not saying this is the editorial . You this is everybody's sort of criticism . If your argument is going to be Carmi is an asshole and Richie is right , all right , let's discuss the details of that .

You can't just say my opinion is those things .

What she said in she taught this class called great books . Literally , we had to read a bunch of different sections of either great books or great books in general , uh , going from antiquity up through , uh , not , modern day but pretty close .

We read a bunch of shit what she said was you can bring anything to this discussion , anything that you want to , but you need to anchor it in the text . So don't bring me a sky hook , Don't don't say about whatever fucking Dickens story or whatever we were talking about oh , that guy's a Jesus figure .

Okay , Show me in the text how he's a Jesus figure Like . Show me the line , show me which part of this backs up that argument that you're making . And that is for this season in particular . A lot of people are saying , oh , this thing happened , and I'm like , okay , show me in the text where that happened so that we could talk about that .

So , yes , let's dive in Perfect and we'll see where we line up or sort of get shaken off that path . We open with Marcus's Mother's Funeral and it begins with us tight on a stained glass window . We pull very slowly in reverse out of it , come up on a set of flowers and then we rise up over the flowers rack , focus to Marcus .

We're looking down the main aisle of the church that we're in . So strange to see Marcus without a cap on . It's almost hard to recognize him . Sometimes it changes his vibe . Is that just me , boss ?

Obviously everybody's going to show up for marcus at his mother's funeral all this shot like that was with car .

I mean I mean that's what everybody fact . Looks great . Yeah , sweeps looks like . I mean look at sweet he looks just fucking sweeps looks sharp as hell , yes , yeah , my god , handsome . It just makes . It just pulls the handsome out . Richie's got a tie bar on which I , I , I really appreciated you know some little uh tie bar they had .

He's , he's , he's strung tight , uh , as the marines would say . And um , we move over to uh , carmy sitting , uh , looking off screen . They're all looking up at the altar area .

We do a uh sort of a looks like a dolly , move um across the front car Carmi sweeps in the back row , sid next to Carmi , fac in the back row between Everyone's sort of misaligned , intentionally to set up a beautiful shot . And this is a tracking shot , so we have not edited since we opened , so that's why I'm not sure it's Dolly .

It looks like more like a study cam , but it's impressive . We get Ted , fact , we get Tina in the front row . Uh , ted is in the back , um , and we move all the way over to , um , who is that ?

Um , now we get our first cut . It moves to . It's actually a very classy edit , which is it's got . There's some movement as we , as we , uh , as marcus goes to the podium , um , and he says she never , let me be scared , like worried , takes a beat , looks at everybody , um , really looks sad . She always kept things moving . Um , she did it by herself .

She was nice to everyone . Uh , she was funny . She let me watch r-rated stuff when I was a kid . Uh , like , like she let me watch robocop , which is nice , because that could have been something else and I like that . They made the choice there . She was a good cook , which will be appreciated in this group for sure .

We move off of Marcus , we move to Ted Fack and then over back to Tina . When I was a kid we ate dinner together a lot . Fack is looking down at the icon . I like just being in the kitchen . Marcus said just kind of watching her make dinner . Boy , if that doesn't inform something that they all would relate to , right ?

I mean , yeah , I just like being there , right , I mean , I hope so , because why else would you pick this particular career ? It's fascinating , but yeah , I just like being around that and not a shocker then that that this is where he spends his days , um , and feels comfortable .

Super extreme close-up on carmy , uh , ostensibly to show off those offensively blue eyes . Um , it is , uh , it's unfair . Uh , my , my , my , uh . Daughter told me she's like it . Why does he have eyes that look like they ? You have to plug them in before he goes . Oh , yeah , on screen they look , they look electric blue , like , like that's .

Is that really an eye color ? Um , uh , marcus continues .

But then you know that every time we start this podcast , I greet everybody with beautiful people , because I think we all are , and who gives a shit ? We have on the outside ? Um , I think , uh , uh , carmy , though , does have those uh sort of sort of traffic stopping level of uh , blue in his eye .

I mean , you just go , it just looks fake , it's , it's , it's , it's amazing . Um , marcus continues . She was really creative and we stay on carmy like she sewed a lot . Now . Now we're on uh , nat and um , in fact , she looked like she loved flowers , loved , loved flowers . Marcus says Nat is putting her hand over her belly .

Yeah , a super tight shot of that .

Wow , I think all of the shots , the way that they were set up , is to show the distance between each character and what Marcus is talking about .

And so when we have a shot on Carmi , we know for sure his experience with his mom is none of the things that Marcus is talking about , especially the stuff about I would be with her while she was in the kitchen , Because when we've seen Carmi in the kitchen with his mom , it has been stressful and hard and frustrating .

And he is not going to be at Donna's funeral talking about how great it was to be sitting in the kitchen with her while she made seven fishes . And so , panning over to Nat , Neal's focus is on Nat . Nat's focus is on her kid , because she is not thinking about Donna right now . She's thinking about the mom that she is going to be to her unborn child .

I'm trying to think of another show where I've seen that , where the woman's face was not in it , or . You know , it's just or or or . It wasn't like a dad talking to the baby coming , you know . So I'm trying to just remember where I've seen that before . Um , I thought it was a good choice .

I think the they did an excellent job pairing the um , uh , whatever was being said by marcus and , and whatever the emotional weight of that sentence or that sentiment was , with the appropriate characters , to whom it might land the hardest or not land at all , right , in which case , right then , it would make sense .

I've raved about Ted Lasso and how I thought it was remarkable that , for example specific to you , boss there's a moment in episode sorry , season three of Ted Lasso where Beard has a moment with Nate and you're like nope , like no fucking way .

You as a viewer feel like you have such a connection to the material , to the character , to how it's been done , how it's been presented , that you feel empowered to challenge the writer's take , the creator's take on it . That that is . That is remarkable .

And it's remarkable that , um , when you build characters with that much depth that people can tend to fill in the blanks for them , this show , um , you know what it harkens back to ? Um , there was an essay kurt vonnegut did about writing uh , I gotta find it , but , uh , hold on , I had , I had this quote over here .

Um , so , yes , there was eight points , and he's , uh , the eighth point was give your readers as much information as possible , as soon as possible . To heck with suspense . Uh , go ahead , yeah , do run and run and get that . I'll say I'll finish the quote . To heck with suspense .

Uh , readers should have such a complete understanding of what is going on , where and why , that they could finish the story themselves should cockroaches eat the last few pages , and so with with this scene , I mean , we know the cat .

We've we've had two seasons to get to know these characters , and so it's not a shock that the , the beats or the moments that , uh , that marcus has in in this situation , sort of uh , you know , we can , we can sort of project who they'll hit the hardest , or if they showed any .

Take a line that marcus says about his mom , and if we did a fill in the blanks where we showed you all of the characters one at a time , we're we're well schooled enough by this writing team that we could probably fill in the blanks if we said , oh , the line about mothers and we put you know , uh sugar in that scene instead of instead of uh carm , you'd

say , okay , how does she feel ? Or if we put you know tina in that scene , how would , how might she feel , being a mother herself ? So , uh , it's just , it's just just an excellent sort of statement about the quality of the work that we can fill in the blanks a little bit . So , you know , I think that's a feather in the cap of this team .

I felt like that wasn't realistic for beard , but that was also my outside knowledge and experience and information where I was like that wouldn't happen in real life , that , and it wasn't a stretch . This wasn't like , uh , what's the term I'm looking for here ? Where just a suspension of disbelief . It wasn't that , it was I .

I , I know , I , I know for sure that's not how drug addicts work , like I , and so then it felt less like I was disagreeing with the character and they were not being true to who the character was . And because I am trying to , you know , do this separation so much between what I dislike and what feels like more valid criticism ?

Yeah , that is actually a perfect example of my criticism . Is not that I didn't want the character to do that . My criticism is that is not true . Want the character to do that ? My criticism is that is not true to the existence of most people .

But what a testament to any show when we as an audience can can feel like you know , they've built such uh watertight characters that you know we , we feel like we could write the next , uh , the next beat for them . So marcus continues uh , here , um , he's trying to hold it uh back from crying . She loved everyone .

I think you can tell , because there's so many people here . Uh , he's trying to hold it uh back from crying . She loved everyone . I think you can tell , cause there's so many people here . Uh , he's fighting back um tears . Um , we're tight on him at the podium , just basically neck to not even the top of his forehead .

Um and I just uh was talking and missed that line . So I'm going to go back . Um and I always felt loved . Oh , yeah , I don't want to miss that line . So I'm going to go back . Um and I always felt loved . Oh yeah , I don't want to miss that one . I always felt loved . It didn't matter what was going on or if I was in trouble or whatever .

Um , yeah , uh , I knew she was listening . Uh , and she knew I was listening too , which is and these are good things for a first time mother to hear Like I have made my case that just be there , just show up , is rule one and it's so important .

Marcus says she was sick and even though she couldn't speak , you know , it almost felt sometimes like that communication was better , which which is wow , that is , that is an interesting way to frame that . I was like OK , I was like I can't wait for this next line because I I need to hear how that could possibly be better . Boss , what does he say here ?

And then he gives it this long of a beat and he says I don't know what it's like to be a parent , but I do know what it's like to be a parent , but I do know what it's like to be a child , to be a kid and at that point it's on richie thinking about his kid and having someone pay , actually pay , or really pay attention to you uh , yeah , no , this

is great , I love actually , you , you flipped that .

And the writing staff said , no , I know what it feels to have someone really pay attention , yes , and then they said you know what ? That's not quite enough , let's add actually to it . So this is I know what it's like to actually really have someone pitch and you cannot miss the point of that , right , that is , that is bulletproof . Um , it is uh .

I remember , uh , uh , when , after my father passed , I remember my younger sister saying , um , the thing she missed most , most is he was the only person in the world that if she walked through the door he lit up . Like he lit up , he was every single time in her life she had walked into a room where he was in .

It was like Christmas for him every time she walked into a room . That's the type of love you know , it's hard to sort of find that in this existence . And when Marcus says she actually really paid attention , I think I would hope , I would hope that people get to experience that . I think I would hope I would hope that people get to experience that .

So I don't , you know , I don't know that everybody does , but it is a . It is a remarkable feeling to have that level of focus on you by someone that you love slash , admire , slash care about . Whatever I know in my family , I'm not sure I I felt it until I made really good friends . You know what I mean .

Like I know I know my siblings didn't do it . I know my parents did it in a way that that was paying attention , like checking a lot of the stuff . You know they're really busy nine kids , hard to just really focus on one .

Um , maybe it wasn't until I had a serious relationship where I felt , you know , but it was like it was , it felt new , it wasn't like something I , I remember my childhood having in it . Um , so sometimes we can find that from our um family of origin and sometimes we created ourselves , uh , as we go through life .

It was like two older boy cousins , my older sister , one . The family it was um , like two older boy cousins , my older sister , one girl . I was like the fifth oldest out of 30 grandkids or something . Wow yeah , yeah , yes , I'm , I'm up red , um , and my dad died by suicide when I was 12 .

So some of my cousins have mentioned and I felt this a little bit like it was harder , weirder my parents got divorced and then my dad killed himself . Like there were some rough years in between there , um , but he would do that , he would do that a lot , like he would pay attention to kids .

He never brushed them off or like wasn't interested in what they were saying , like little kids . My dad would be like , yeah , tell me what you think about that . Now that makes him sound like a much better father than he actually was .

I mean , I think , especially on this show , we're gonna have to really delve in what it means to love somebody and also acknowledge not just their flaws , not just their faults , but like also acknowledge not just their flaws , not just their faults , but like you were bad at that , like he wasn't a good dad and he wasn't that great of a husband and I love him

and I acknowledge the things that he did . well , I know that he was smart and funny and into music and paid attention to kids and treated them with respect . When other aunts and uncles were like get the fuck out of here , nobody cares what you're talking about . But like that is going to be part of what happens .

What we're seeing here with Marcus is an example of like one of the best deaths you could possibly have . Like she he took care of her , she took care of him and she loved him and he loved her . And then he took care of her . She took care of him and she loved him and he loved her . And then he took care of her .

And when their relationship ended in this way , he got to tell a room full of people here are all the wonderful things that made me feel close and special to her .

And so because I feel like this show is such a rumination on grief and what that means , showing us all these different kinds of grief I think there should be a comparison there and not a better or worse . But what is Carmi's mom's funeral going to be like when she when Donna passes , versus what happened here .

There's none of that . And I , for I read that as social anxiety and he's like got to get to to what's important . And I really love it . I love it as a choice and I love it as I love it for Marcus and I love it for the effectiveness of the show .

We don't waste time with extra baloney , so it works on multiple levels for me in discussing your father and we and we've done this for many years now , so I have a little bit of a historical trove to draw upon , but I I really love that you're able to sort of isolate a moment that you thought he did well , and I've heard now echoes of it in how you

treat children . Now you are not a parent , but you talk a lot about your nieces and nephews and you talk about how you are nieces .

People like you're like I'm never going to be that schmoopy doopy like you know you don't do that , you just go hey , what's happening . I've always admired that in you and I think

it's uh . I think , uh I've talked about breaking the chain . We can sometimes inherit a raw deal or dealt a lousy hand of cards and sometimes the best , we can just not pass it on .

Yeah , and when I hear that I haven't heard you talk about that that was a quality that your dad had , but now it feels like you've magnified that and made it your own and it's a part of you .

That is also seemingly part of your dad , but you do it effectively and what's behind it seems probably a lot more authentic than what you're saying , that he did or whatever , or or if he , maybe he couldn't carry it down the road either way .

What I'm trying to say is it gives me hope to hear things like that and I think it's sort of a beautiful way to pay tribute to something that was positive that you got from your dad that was not maybe marred by some of the other elements of his personality or how everything played out .

He had it more than even any of his 10 siblings . And , to be very clear , I think that you have mentioned before that you see my take on the world as being very black and white . I think that you are correct , I think that you're right about that , but I think that that is .

So I would say he was fantastic at listening to kids and paying attention to them and treating their feelings and their opinions with respect , and also he was shitty in all of these other ways . So there is all of this like there is the black and the white . I don't think that you mix those all together and they turn to gray .

I think he had great qualities and he had shitty qualities and that those don't that .

No , he fucking flunked a bunch of things it excelled in some ways sure yeah , okay , yeah , I mean I'll either way what you're doing .

Yeah , I'm like , oh , my God , my God , like Jesus Christ , and then we squander it on so many things as a species .

So I just go , oh God , it just , it's just beautiful to me and also , you know , the , the , the humanity of what you're talking about , of of being a , you know , flunking in certain cases and and and kicking ass and others , is is real and it's and it feels , you know , authentic and honest , and it's a lot of the reason I really liked so many of the

things in the , in the show Wayne that we covered . If you're joining us and you and you've only come here for the bear , please consider going back and listening to the Wayne episodes and or the Ted . I assume you've heard of Ted Lasso .

Wayne is the one I'm trying to do a Paul Newman thing where I go one for them , one for us , one for them , one for us kind of thing , where it's like , okay , people have heard of Ted Lasso and they've heard of the bear , not many people have heard of Wayne , but it is no less remarkable and uh , and the next one we'll do after the bear is going to be

a little bit more obscure , uh , but something that I think is is equally good as all of these shows . Um , but yeah , boss , I , I love the insight , I love the , the perspective , I think it's , I think it's fascinating . Um and uh , yeah , just like you know , my version of heaven is where they have all the answers . Go on the answers .

You would be able to go and be like , hey dad , hey , why the fuck did you do that ? Like , and then you get an answer . You get a real answer , like I would be like that's like crack to me to be like . Oh , I would love to be able to . You know , you can ask anybody anything and get the real answer .

okay . So there are two more things that I want to say about this specific scene with Marcus , and it goes along with what you're saying . The first one is that part of it for me , part of what you just said about his social anxiety and how he just dove right into it he let it rip . He just jumped right in , he let it rip . Yeah , good point .

Everyone from the restaurant was in what , as far as I could tell , were the front pews , and also everyone in the restaurant walked in right after him . So I know that he said she was loved because there are so many people here today .

I know that he said she was loved because there are so many people here today , but two pews were filled with people that maybe never met her , but knew Marcus and knew her through Kim . Yeah . So he didn't really need to jump in and be like , hey , hey , Carm , I'm going to see you tonight for service . Great to see you here .

Well , like , why did you fuck that up ? My , the way where I have landed right now is , well , because he was a fuck up , because he had a bad childhood and he had bad parents and he had mental health issues and he was an alcoholic and like he never came in and thought I'm going to fuck this up for them .

I'm like I'm going to do this badly , I'm going to hurt them . He just he was a fuck , so like what would be the answer that he'd be able to give me that would feel satisfying , and I'm not knocking you .

When did he adopt this thing that ended up on emily and made her react like this ? Like I , just like , I'm so fascinated by , like , the cause and effect of these , of human condition , and um , I'll never get answers to that . I have to live with that . You know , there'll never be a place I can get those .

So , listen , I totally respect not agreeing with me or or thinking , oh , I don't need that . Who gives a shit ? Like , well , that answer's too , uh , nebulous , whatever . Yeah , I would just love to have like , I wish there was a quantifiable way to be like , yes , if we had just , you know , your great , great , great great grandfather started .

You know he took a shot in a bar when he was 16 and that ended up being I'm like , oh , my god , like I , just I want to know what the , the , the , the connective tissue is . Um , anyway , it's a , it's a pipe dream , but uh something I like to think about .

That doesn't change At that point , it's only about , and so I About not paying , about not kicking the can continuously down the street .

It is gathering up this like you know island of misfit kids and be like , hey , you know that time your parents did that shitty thing . I've got that same shitty story . Um to , hey , you know that time , in reference to that shitty thing , I've got that same shitty story . To the extent that I am just going to read this entire passage . I'm sorry .

I'm so sorry that I'm doing this to everybody . Samantha Irby this book is called we Are Never Meeting in Real Life . She is fucking amazing . She's got a blog called Bitches Gotta Eat . Please go read her . She is , I promise , despite what I'm about to read to you , hilarious and amazing and wonderful , and I think she's fantastic , great , love it .

She is talking about how , uh , her fathers he was , uh , an abusive alcoholic and they were estranged at the time of her death , when his death when she was 18 , and she's talking about how , after she and her mom moved out , his life underwent a series of changes , most of which I have no real idea about .

He'd move away , get his shit together , come back , destroy it again . I saw him randomly , in fits and starts and always on the upswing , always with a healthy glow and a toothy grin , singing a new song about how he was really going to get his shit together this time .

I'd like to think that eventually he'd pull it together for me , that when he'd gotten word I was suffering , some paternal urge deep within him willed him clean and sober and back in town , superhero cape affixed firmly to his collar . The part of me that needs to believe that my life was important to a person who created it clings to that .

But I am logical , realistic , I know otherwise , and I have to tell you I was at fucking Sepia , which is a fancy ass restaurant in Chicago , in Chicago .

I took myself there on a date before the ballet , and I am trying my goddamnedest to not sob into the fucking short rib that I had just gotten yeah , samantha , samantha , how the fuck , are you going to do that to me ? How the fuck are you going to write those lines , and you could have shot me in the head , it would have been easier .

The fuck are you doing ? Which is all to say . There are , for me , a lot of things that feel like this season is for people who know otherwise , for people who are not Marcus .

For people who , regardless of how much they want to believe that their parents could have swept in and loved them the way that they were supposed to , that is not our reality , and so seeing Marcus being able to do this , it feels wonderful . I love it , I genuinely like . It makes me sad , but in a happy way , and also I know that this is .

This is not what Karmie is thinking about right now .

Sure , I'm trying to think if I've actually heard those words come out of your mouth because you're so cavalier about whatever . Do the fuck you want , as long as it doesn't bother me . So , so you being protective over something , uh , especially something this bad is , um , oh , I'm no , no , no no sure , of course .

I , I , I , just I'm , I'm , I'm , I'm filing it away that you're protective and and that's , that's very interesting to me . And , um , uh , I guess it shouldn't be surprising , because I've seen you be emotionally , but but I but I'm very rarely protective of things .

In the same way that I want to be able to discuss the merits of this season of the show outside of if you liked it or didn't , when people say they fucked this up , I want to be able to talk about the merits of that because I feel like for the people for whom this really resonated , when we say , oh no , they did things , they did this and this and

this and this , because that is true to life , and what would have happened and how things would have turned out . I want that sort of experience to be weighted when we're talking about what the show was going for .

It looks like a different bouquet , is a little larger than the one we saw in the opening , um , and then we cut to black and now we get the title , sequence and now the show starts and we're only , and I and I thought it's in yeah , I thought are we going to get that uh , 22 minute um love letter to chic , to Chicago sequence opening , or is this going

to be something different ? And what actually do we open on , boss ?

She , she didn't drink soda , except if she get a fountain drink from like mcdonald's or burking , and then and then she would sip it , and if it was off , then she and she was just like no , I can't even drink whatever . Uh , and the reason was it was wasn't what you thought it was .

So it was that it wasn't just the mix , it was something oh god , we're gonna have to look this up , but it was something along . You're probably looking it up right now . Uh , it was something along the lines of the , of how , the actual containers oh God , what was the reason ? It was something you wouldn't think .

It was like the , the , the syrup , and they mix the syrup and the and the soda water , but the , something about the syrup , like they didn't freeze the syrup or they didn't do something about it . I forget what that , what the term ? We'll have to look up and see that but there was an actual , definable reason that that was why they about that .

I forget what the term is , we'll have to look up and see , but there was an actual definable reason . That was why they did that . So , boss , while you're looking that up , did you get it or no ?

Of all the things I've noticed that have been lauded by the chef slash cooking community , sydney , drinking out of a container rather than a glass of some sort was broadly and widely praised by people in the food service industry as yep , that's exactly right . Like that's .

The most accurate thing we've seen on this show is that you drink out of shitty plastic containers that are used to typically store food . Um , she puts her her name on it . Um , and we pull back and it is 529 in the am Like you do . It's not , although she the the . It's interesting to me because we open with a bottle cap being popped off .

This is not a fountain container . This is like one of those I had a friend again . I don't really give a shit about soda because for some reason the carbonation bothered me when I was growing up and if I drank it I would always get that gas attack where bubbles would go up into your brain .

They would say , oh , you got to get the Mexican ones because they have actual sugar rather than anything synthetic . Anyway , she pops the top , pours it into this thing , which I'm like , why wouldn't you drink it ? Why would you ever corrupt glass with plastic ? That seems nonsensical to me , but I don't know , like that's . I had a grandmother who would never .

She'd be like why would you ever store something in plastic ? I mean , there's glass , glass exists . I don't care that . Plastic is new . Glass will never leach into the food . Yeah , plastic will .

Like I'm not sure why exactly . But if they say like , oh right , you're an accountant , I'm like that . That is not worth the brain space . You should . You should let that go , it'll be fine .

She says . She gives him the call . Whatever it's like saying action on set . They all yell doors . The episode is entitled Doors . Now we get doors . We are slowly this entire time pushing in on Sydney . She takes a deep breath and then we cut to Tina and walk us through this boss .

They're going into battle with the dinner and then carmy starts listing off the menu . So it's a asparagus with a duck egg , hamachi with grapefruit , tenderloin , mushroom and cherry jus .

These actual dishes , while they sound delicious , are not necessarily important because he's going to change them tomorrow , and tomorrow we're going to get him saying these same things a different way . Is everybody good ? Great , let's fucking go , thank you and everybody's off . And then richie says all right , look alive , burritos . How'd you feel about that one ?

Did your love of richie overpower your hatred of puns ?

And she said what does that even mean ? That doesn't even make any sense . Are they trying to say something ? I was like , yeah , we tan you on , maureen , we , we tan you on Maureen , we tan you on . And you're still not getting it .

Um , I think I probably give it a pass for naming conventions because I think if you can cleverly merge two concepts I and where I went to school in upstate new york uh , I saw , I I'm sure this is a very common name but I drove by a place which was a little inn called the do drop in the d-e-w-d-r-o-p-i-n-n , and I was like , oh , that's clever , like I

wouldn't think of that . But that's . I was like okay , didn't bother me , I wasn't like offended by it but , but do drop in it's bad dude . Yeah , do drop in now . Um , uh , now we keep going here . Boss . Happy wed . Happy Wednesday they all say happy Wednesday .

So he's saying we've got a 47th birthday party at 7 pm . I didn't realize they took note of your age . I want to make sure to not include that if I ever go out for my birthday again . 7.45 , we have an alderman celebrating an anniversary . Want us to be sharp . I want us to be clear . I want us to have fun . Okay .

These people don't deserve to have faces or names or whatever . I'm actually .

Why didn't any of the gallagher kids on shameless , why didn't a single one of them other than uh fiona have a best friend ? They and that's the restrictions of the show . Like I don't think that we actually know all of the back of the house staff . We have a better idea because the front and back house were the same when we started .

But yeah , we can't , we can't . Whoever this uh lovely gentleman is over neil's shoulder , what are we going to do about it ?

Regardless of who you are , you're going to screw up something . When you're changing every dish every night . You're not going to get it all right . There will be confusion . He finally gets to asparagus with a quail egg and a potato puree and it's gonna be great , really , really good egg and potato yeah , yeah and marcus uh , what's up with the , the dessert ?

Um , he just just has to pull it all together and and like his real life persona as Richie is changing this shit up on the fly , he looks like he's panicked .

Nothing in this world ever surprised me more than the fact that when I first tried caviar as like I don't know I think I've had my first bite of it at like eight or nine Somebody gave me a thing of caviar and I was like a tiny little thing .

I was like , oh , I somehow liked it and I'm not a huge seafood guy or whatever , but for some reason it worked . So Caviar Sunday sounds intriguing to me .

I want to point out that we are , I don't know how many minutes into , you know , about two and a half minutes into this sort of montage of you know , pre , pre-service , prep , right , the , the , the , uh , the meetings , before , uh , they go out .

And only um Shug has smiled , and it was a fake smile , so , like a forced , polite smile , everybody looks fucking miserable and just putting a pin in that we continue . Keep going , boss .

service . And everyone shouts Okay . Says all right , let's get to work Service . And everyone shouts chef . And then he says doors , doors , welcome in . And now it's we prepared a beautiful menu for you guys tonight . It's the service , it's pressing things , it's lighting candles we're looking at a shot of the menu .

Those need to be printed every goddamn day , like . I understand that paper menus probably would be printed on a fairly regular basis , but that needs to be printed either with a fancy printer they have in the back or they have to go to a printer on a daily basis to get enough . Yeah .

If I were Uncle Jimmy and we are going to see him in a little bit because he is going to be worried about the restaurant my argument to Carmi at this point would be you always have some similar dishes , Like you're going to have a hamachi and a raviolo and something else . So why not not include the grapefruit ?

Why not just say we are bringing you a raviolo and not say with the quail egg and the potato puree , and then when you switch it tomorrow night , you don't need to reprint all the fucking menus . Why can't you change just slightly so that we can make this more manageable ? Spoken like a true accountant , yeah who do you think keeps the fucking lights on ?

Uh , in case there are dietary restrictions or things you just don't really feel like eating , um , you know , he's , he's , he's really good at , he's good at this , I think .

We don't hear them give an answer , but we do see him hustle into the kitchen , pull out a slip , uh of paper underneath a um , it's like a Amber paperweight sort of thing , um , and , and then they choose to show him , he , he , he pulls out his pen with a , uh , showman's click , a flourish , yeah , like a flower . Right , it just got a flourish to it .

Uh , um , it's , it's , it's . It was kind of amazing , the , the acting , yeah , the , the , the way that , um , the actor , uh , uh , sort of has embodied .

You know , the really super blue collar nature of richie in the first season or a season or two , and then now he's , now , he now flourishes are part of , of his , uh , the mechanics of how his thumb and arm work .

Um , he glances back over his shoulder at the time it's 547 and right next to carmy who has said no substitutions yep , I mean , I mean right next to him , because there's a two shot of them together uh , he seems to write up the substitutions obviously , um , obviously he would do that .

These are not coming out on the printer and therefore there is not that background noise of the coming out on the printer and therefore there is not that background noise of the yeah , that's , that's yeah whoever is responsible for that took the anxiety level of the kitchen down at least a few percentage points .

It just because of sydney's like her trauma around it and carmy not liking it .

But I received a personal message from the stupendous one , ellen Chambers , who has offered to give me some insight into the restaurant business . I worked in restaurants growing up , but I haven't been there in a long time . Some of this is totally foreign to me . I don't I .

It doesn't in some ways doesn't make sense to me , so I have to take her up on a on a walkthrough . She also told me the name of the flash Okay , that flash broiler , that they use five more seconds chef , always five more seconds salamander . She told me that was a salamander . Yes , did she tell you that too , or did you know that ?

We're meant to understand that time is cook , they are flying , we got things happening . Things are highlighted and circled and bowls are placed and Carmi's checking on things . We see him do the thing where he it's funny to a non-chef I cook for a family of six every three meals a day .

I feel like I'm still someone who cooks , but I don't have any of the skill , talent , flair , whatever you call it where , when Carmi plates something he has like a wrist thing and he's got a like the spoon is so careful , so careful I .

Maybe the thing I'll never , ever get over more than anything in this show is when chef luca is showing marcus how to plate the green shit . Yes , that he . He does something on his palm , ostensibly to heat the spoon .

Enough right to let the like a tiny bit of heat friction generated by using that on his palm , which will allow the thing , the goop in the spoon , to slide off the spoon . I was like what , what am I looking like ? What is ? Is this real life ? Like I just go ? I don't , I don't understand any of that , but listen , fascinating .

None , look , I'm not knocking it . It's just like watching another artist work .

that is the . I think that people think of it as being the creativity , and I'm going to figure out how to put a red wine sauce on shrimp and it's actually going to be delicious .

Yes , definitely that part , but also the actual execution is what makes this an art , to the point that I am so unable to do it that at my office we have a treadmill because we're fancy , I guess .

So at times I will take my laptop in there and work on the treadmill to get my steps in , and I am so bad with my hands I'm so bad with , like , pointing and clicking that there are some tasks I can't do while I'm walking , because I need to be fully seated in order to operate the mouse in the right way , that if I need to stand slightly differently from

how I'm expecting it , I will put the thing in the wrong spot and I can't do that wow , yeah , I never .

Do you have Parkinson's ? And that is not what a 16-year-old girl wants to hear from her crush .

Um , I just don't know , I would never , I would last negative three seconds , I would so not last in this , and I worked in restaurants but they sucked compared to this . Um , and uh , I , uh , I just this , this attention to detail , the fine motor skills required to place . You know , every time , every time , um , I guess , to my credit at least .

You know , when we talked about jackson pollock , we talked about , uh , the untrained eye and people saying like , oh , oh , I could spray shit on them and you go , yeah , ok , thanks , thank you for that , at least I will , I will , I would be able to .

At the baseline , when you see how they put , like the various sauces and the patterns , like I go , wow , that's . Yeah it doesn't look like it's spilled . You know what I mean . It looks like wow , wow .

This is just there's a , there's a , there's such a I'm a visual person , so that the , the visual component of that is is stunning and you just go , wow , what a right . I don't know .

Folks , this is a lot of the other ones I've been taken , um , uh , but this is more about the artistry of what you can do with food . Then this is going to be a waffle and you're going to love it . God knows , I fucking love a waffle . But yeah , there's a level of like .

Even the fact that both of those bowls you could see that the thirds are roughly the same size , like , oh yeah . I would say the fact that there's a little bit more carrot in one of the bowls and onion in the other would prop should make him nuts . But that's maybe my OCD .

There's said people think that it's splattering paint on a canvas and that that's that there wasn't that much skill involved or that he didn't really need to plan that much and all these other misconceptions about his work .

And they're like if you think that , Get a canvas and several different colors of paint and see what you come up with of paint and see what you come up with , If you think that this is throwing paint on a canvas , go ahead and try it and tell us the garbage and you will come up with garbage .

There's significantly more skill in this than I think a lot of people would recognize . Being able to recognize that is good job , Do that .

There's a level of mastery and competence and ability that is , you know , stunning , and so even I mean I don't know if I can give it higher praise than even in something that I would regard as lesser than it still manages to have a pretty goddamn impressive standard .

But this , this server that comes up like standing there like a , like a cyborg , until carmy summons him . So like I , I it just gives me . I just don't like anything whatever . I understand this is a level of excellence , uhportedly .

But I go , oh , my God , like , oh , anyway , it's joyless , it's , it's early days , tom Coughlin , and so so we get shots of the clock inserts of Sydney looking more writing . We see we got a clock at 555 . Then we have sydney writing 555 on a slip . I don't know . Whatever in comes , richie , they kind of nod at each other . We're .

Now we get some uh sort of sort of a sort of a splashy cut to a fast moving insert of every second counts that dissolves as it passes . We got sweeps saying oh fuck , he breaks a cork . It's pretty tough to break . I don't know how much wine you've opened . I remember when I first got my first job as a waiter , I never opened a bottle of wine .

I was 17 . So I was serving it , but I was like , how the fuck do you open it Whatever ? And the other waiters had to just kind of show me really quickly and you had to have this little . It was your personal thing , it was something you had to bring your key wine . I was like I didn't know what's that . Your wine key , wine key .

It was a well , is that what they call it ? Yeah , is it like it's got a well ? First of all , the big thing was like , got very adept at . Like you put the blade inside the top ridge of that little bump on the on the top of the wine and then you drag .

You just drag it around , use your thumb for pressure and then the whole thing pops up perfectly and then so . But if you don't do that , then there's like a frayed and then you're going to foil in that . Yeah , and it just looks like shit . I don't know if you're gonna you if it's not touching the top . You're below this , the lip , but you're gonna .

It looks like shit . It looks like any part of the , the wrapper that is touching the top part .

Keep you know , constant pressure , turn the bottle , not the knife , all these different things that I didn't know . Um , and then the . You insert the corkscrew at a certain angle , which which makes it not break the cork the way that sweeps is doing here at a top restaurant . Uh , it just looks terrible . He's got the funniest look on his face .

Once he does , he kind of looks around and stuff . I mean .

And you can , on very fancy bottles of wine , you can get cork rot . It's why boxed wine is superior . Everybody don't listen to what the media tells you . A twist off is great .

These guys are waiting for half an hour right here , chef , thank you . No tea , refire , please . Everybody take your time . What the fuck ? No tea , do not refire . Plate that shit , plate it . What's wrong with it ? It's off . Carmi says so . Like these are competing interests .

Like you know , sid has a job to get things out on the table and Carmen's like no , like it's not right . And I go oh my God , this is so much like again , I'm sure I'm wrong about this . So we're going to , I'm going to get Ellen to , to , to school me on all this . But I'm like , you have the most competent chef as the connoisseur .

You have the carmy as the top chef and he checks everything to make . He's like the spot checker , but he's not doing the cooking , he's doing the plating . I would think the plating is easier to do than the cooking , but I guess I don't know .

Then you have the second most efficient chef and all she's doing is knowing what needs what and then calling out shit , but she doesn't touch the food , she's just behind a desk . And then you have the third most competent chef , who is tina , who has just been trained as the sous chef and she's in charge of cooking everything .

The cooking , which I would think that's where the big money is is cooking everything properly , and I'm like this seems absolutely back ass word to me . But okay , whatever , uh , let's make sure that the top two food preppers don't do food , or food preparers do not touch the food or barely touch . I'm like I don't .

This seems so strange to me as a as a concept . But again , what do I know ? This is a guess , how it's done everywhere , right ?

. I think my understanding is the difference between what I am putting out and what Tina would put out is what Karm is doing . Uh , sydney , in this case , is ex expoing . Ellen also corrected me on that word uh not expediting expoing . So she is managing everything . He is doing quality control and also doing the plating .

And the plating is I can make a kick ass steak and Bernays , and nobody's going to pay $175 for it because I throw the entire fucking steak on the plate and smother it in sauce that's well said .

That's a fucking asshole . Uh , richie says if it's not perfect , doesn't go out . Carmy says , and he throws it away . Why don't you be a man and tell that to table 17 ? I'm getting fucked . We talk a lot about modern versions of masculinity and I'm not sure this , this sort of synthesizes with our , our Ted Lasso and view of that .

He says I'm getting fucked , richie , richie , you guys are fucking me . No , for real , are they drinking ? They're drinking . Sydney says okay , give them a drink on us , many glasses they want , please , marcus , chef , can you get a pair and a brief fast , like yesterday ? Okay , now listen , I'm just reading the lines . So obviously this is happening on the show .

I'm reading them as fast as I can because this is how they're shown to us , because this is hell . So my experience of this was like . I was like this is horrible and I feel horrible watching it . I'm not like what is this ? This is yeah , and I think I'm hearing you infer that this is designed that way it's supposed to make you feel horrible .

Okay , that is I fur , that this is designed that way , it's supposed to make you feel horrible .

I'm going to say I'm going to pick on Game of Thrones and Sherlock , because Sherlock fucking let me down so bad that I have blocked out anything after season three . I think they did a movie . I don't fucking care , I don't pay attention to that shit . I know exactly when that TV show ended . It was not when they did .

I have never seen a show lose control and lose its way and figure out not what to do , while also scaling back to the extent that the Bear has more plots that don't go anyplace , more rushed plots where at the end of one season of Game of Thrones , dany is supposed to be the savior of all of Westeros and two episodes later we're supposed to believe that it's

okay to murder her because she's obviously the mad queen . Like I have seen shows fuck up in a lot of different ways . I have not seen ones where they say we are going to give you very little . It is going to be a lot of emotion and we have no idea what we're doing , like when they show us . I've never , I've never seen that .

I'm aware you're fucking me . So sorry , jeff , Uh , I love that . Uh , periodically Tina still throws in Jeff . I really it means the world to me as someone who , when we're cooking dinner , juliana will often call me Jeff , um , I just need that little boost . Um , uh , it's funny . I , I , uh , I uh .

For the first two seasons it made me , um , sometimes reflect on the bear while I was cooking . So there's something I do when I make pancakes and I always sift the flour , um , which you don't have to do , yes , and I like to .

I like to uh , separate the eggs and I make uh sort of whipped peaks out of the whites to make it more airy as I make , as I fold it into the pancake batter . It may sound like I take pride in this . I don't . I just think it's more effective and so I do it that way . It's a better recipe . My kids like it , they eat it , but it you know .

So you know my . My point is is uh well , originally , when it's funny , because when you said um , uh about the uh carm , the distribution of the thirds in the bowls , that carm was saying I was like that's remarkable , like I've made pancakes a million times and I don't um think I've ever made two pancakes the same size .

So I don't know how people do any of this stuff . But when these people are sort of I'm looking right here , hold on , can I get a pair of briefs ?

Yeah , so this is , these people are churning through these moments and sometimes when I'm cooking I'll go , um , I'll feel like I don't know , like , like , oh , I'm actually doing , I just think of the bear while I'm doing it . And and then it didn't happen that way for me in season three .

I felt like eh , like well , so I don't know what what we can take from that as an indicator . But in the first few seasons I was like , oh , behind Jeff , and things like that , and I was like , oh , let's you know . And then I would put some food on the table and I'd be like , oh , I'm , I'm here , I am plating like they do on the bear .

And then for season three , I just didn't , it didn't land , for I'm just putting a pin Anyway , okay , yeah , I don't know if it matters , but it was like I remember when I loved Game of Thrones and I thought it was the best show in the world , and then I remember when then , like you couldn't the memorabilia , or like the merch online went from expensive to

you couldn't give it away , right , and it was like that . You know that sort of thing and I'm not saying this is that I'm not saying this is that I'm not comparing them . You're talking about a travesty with that show , with this show . I just go , but I know I'm marking the difference in the practical application in my life .

What you didn't just say to me was , I think that in the first season of the bear they did a better job of displaying what it feels like to work in a kitchen than they do in the third season . You said I have a more of an emotional connection to the first two seasons than I do to the third .

I'm just not doing these things anymore because it feels like less interesting or fun or something .

Can you tell me why you didn't like this season as much as the first two ?

So you saying I didn't have a connection to season three , absolutely , that is truth . That goes into the books as absolute , 100% valid .

When we get to individual points , those are up for discussion in terms of not whose interpretation is more valid , but which one of us have it , what support we are bringing to that discussion and I think that that support for any sort of claims that are to be made on the episode , when people say it's a bad season because of this , tell me the support , give

me the reasons , let's talk about that .

Yeah , as we go , I would like to highlight as much as I can of the positive , the things that work , the things that I think are effective , the things that I think are , you know , really good , of which there are a number , because this is a very competent team and an excellent show , um , and then we'll start to talk thematically about what begins to not

work . Or , you know , I said I I didn't , I didn't appreciate the choice of the montage of the entire first episode would totally fell flat for me . Um , expected something more to come out of the second . It didn't . So I was waiting for it to come out of the third and it didn't . And we'll talk about all those different things .

But yes , you make a good point , you're fucking me .

Richie says so sorry , jeff , don't apologize , just keep going . Richie says Need that wagyu ? I'm probably not pronouncing that right Wagyu Wagyu . I don't know Wagyu , tina working , jeff , sydney , thank , thank you . It's super tense , a lot , of , a lot of sidelong glances . I am very you want to talk about protective ? I'm very protective of Tina .

Sure , I don't like people fucking with Tina . I never thought I'd say that we wanted her fired . Like in the beginning we were like , hey , if you can't get on board , especially coming off of Ted Lasso , coach is like hey , like you got to go . Like I remember coach being like if you cannot get on board , you got to go .

Now I'm like , you know , same with Richie . Richie was so fucking ugh , he was awful until he wasn't .

And credit to this show that they can take and make such realistic portrayals that you know people can have these two , this dichotomy where they're , uh , appalling and then , and then they turn around to the point where you actually , uh , you know , or you have an axe for um , uh , so we have tina yes , is richie still appalling ?

He has continued to be appalling in ways that we feel more comfortable with , and we'll get into all of that , especially season two stuff . But , yes , no , that is that is my interpretation of this mad camera movement across five different plates , as carmi uses tweezers to put .

Um , uh , I have an aunt who married a man who is like one of these um grew up on the north shore here in boston and I'm sure I know means something different in chicago . But uh , and he's got , like you know , they have a family boat out on the ocean and , uh , him and his dad check the lobster traps that they have .

They get a , you get a , like a permit and you can get , like I think you know four traps or five , I forget how many , what it is , but like they , they load them up and every weekend they go out .

You know , they get up at 4 , 11 in the morning and they go out onto the , into the ocean , and they check the traps and they come back with fresh lobsters and I always feel terrible for the lobsters . I'm like , ah , man , you didn't have to be in that trap , dummy , they did because they're dumb .

funny . My mom was in the house the other day and there was a moth in the house and she freaked out and I was like I like moths , I don't mind moths .

I was like I just try to catch them and bring them outside them , uh , trying to cup them and then carry them outside and set them free and something about this moth freaked her the fuck out , because I was going on a trip and it was a . No , it was like a yeah , it was bigger than it was a medium-sized moth .

But I said I like moths and she goes not that one with her greek accent and and then she proceeded to like shut the shit down as she chased this moth and it went down onto the floor and then she went down on her knees . She's 72 years old to catch it and and and catch . She has like long nails , fingernails . And she caught it and then was pinching .

We saw and this thing's freaking out between her fingers and she took and threw it out of the house in spite and and we were like what in the fuck ? My kids were like , um , uh , yeah , yeah , like this is what you call your grandmother in greece .

Yeah , yeah , and and and then a few days later she came back and she's like uh , I didn't know this , but she tucked a . So that night I had this business meeting . It was an important business meeting .

I had to fly to California for this one business meeting and I tried on the clothes I was going to wear because I was like , oh , I want to make sure I look fine . So I tried on the clothes . I showed the kids , I said , what do you guys think ?

And they helped me rejigger the outfit and , without me knowing , my mom snuck a little icon into the pocket of my pants to protect me and keep me safe . And and she wrote like oh , please , god , protect my child and stuck it in the thing .

I didn't see it until I was like disrobing in California and I was like , oh , okay , like that's , that's , that's nice that she whatever . And then a few days later , after I was back , she said oh , we were like what was the deal with that moth ? Like what ?

And she's like , when I was a little girl , her , she said her mom in the village in greece would flip the fuck out if there was a moth in the house , because to her mom these are the uh , spirits of dead relatives . Visiting A moth signified no , this is my life , this is now . I'm not talking about like 1982 . This is three days ago or five days ago .

And she said she didn't want . She thought the moth was her . So she had a brother that just passed away , my favorite uncle , and she thought the general consensus I was very , I was close to him and I loved him , but the general family consensus was that before he died and during the time he was dying in the hospital , he was trying to leap into me .

This is what the this is the collected consensus of my family was that he was trying to um hitch a ride into my soul to stay alive . I I don't subscribe to this , I don't know what the hell they're talking about , but this was the thing .

And my mom thought he had come back in moth form to um somehow finish the job and take me out , like something would happen on the plane or something like that . And I thought I said , you know , it was just a little dude , a little moth that was drawn to light or whatever .

And then we , we ushered him out and so I'm like , oh , this is my active , I know , and people are going to hear this and go , oh , wow , that's a you know , the thing is I .

Like you know , people have beliefs , whatever they want to do . Until she said , she thought it was the spirit of her dead brother who she believed was here to hitch a ride with you in order to stay alive . So then she was worried that that moth might kill you on the airplane , like that's that . That is literally .

The only part that I'm having trouble with is that if , if your uncle were trying so desperately to hitch a ride into your soul in order to stay alive , I have to imagine , then you've got two souls inside your one body struggling as hard as humanly possible to keep you going , to keep your meat sack just around . Yeah , bring this up to her .

Please let her know I disagree with her logic on the moth I'm sure there's yes , I will for sure thank you , I appreciate that I mean , I , I , uh , I'll let her know .

But if you say , hey , mom , you don't really live , she's like that's crazy , that's what you just said , it's nuts okay yeah , exactly , um , anyway , so I may or may not be uh carrying my uncle's soul . If so fantastic he kicks ass . Uh , loved , loved him to death and uh , he was hysterically funny . Um , and , let's , let's just be .

If we're going to cut through all the bullshit , boss , you know , if you're going to hit you that ride on somebody's soul , I'm a pretty fucking good candidate , that's .

So in the script , when you , when you see the script , there's a couple of different types of uh vo , right , so you have a voiceover which is the uh character's voice over the top of the action , and then you have a thing where they they mark it v period , o period , um , and then you have a different type which is , they say , os , which is off screen ,

so um , and then they have oc , which is off screen , so , and then they have OC , which is off camera , and you're like , okay , which one is this ? Because we hear , on over top of Carmi , right , who is still moving at a quick pace and he's still in frame . We get over the top , we have them . Somebody say what ? What do you hear ?

What do you see here , boss ? And what do you hear ? Welcome to the beef Hold , please . What do you hear ? What do you see here ?

sauce . I actually for a split second wondered if that was back in the day , the beef , because I , for whatever reason , carmi serving a red sauce didn't seem right to me . It feels like he would have thought that was old school and marinara . We're not going to do that . I could be completely wrong about that , but they have hot spoiling . This is like .

This is a very stressful , frenetic way of showing uh movement through time . So it is not the same service that we were looking at at the beginning of the episode or the you know beginning of when service started . It is now the following day when abraham's beef window is open . I just said beef window . That might be weird , don't repeat me on that .

And then we've got pots boiling over .

Whatever jump wherever you want , and um , and we don't why . Why distinguish , why have a break of any kind ? Um and uh and uh we have we ? this entire opening night had nothing to do with the beef section of the restaurant , but let's just now throw it in and and intermingle it with the quick cuts . Arbitrarily . Just throw it , not arbitrarily this is .

This is where I will say that this was a very intentional choice , in the same way that , for me , the opening , uh episode of the season the montage , as you like to call it it didn't feel like a montage to me and I'm going to repeatedly say , like earlier seasons I'd be like I thought , I think that , no , I'm fucking feeling all of this shit .

But it was the same music throughout the entire episode , played over everything . Yes , which technically denotes the montage .

What I am saying is that what I got from that episode and because I went to fucking new york , I wasn't around to talk about it , um , the , the touches from one point in time to another didn't feel chaotic to me .

I didn't feel without reason , because there are moments in my life when things are not going well that I flashback to right now as a grown adult with therapy , sure and I thought that we do it on this show all the time .

As the national song says , I keep coming back here to where everything slipped across time and across different instances that is not , uh , unrelated whatsoever .

They are showing us how these are related , that this reminds me of this , that when this shit happens , I go back to here when , when it is frenetic here at the bear in season three , it feels like the beef because we have that touchstone , like what ?

it gave me was a way of visualizing that sort of uh , this bad shit that happened is related to this bad shit .

So , this episode , as we started , the you know service , and once we called doors , everything you know they they did an amazing job editing in order to really highlight the increased stress and increased pressure . And now we have we've now included Ibra in it and and we have him involved , and then we get the .

Now that we have a new , new voice and I'm going to let you do this whole thing because I know you love it who do we're looking at ? We're looking at , like , so visually on this frame , we're looking at what an overflowing pot of butter .

And I need to feel around like I do a weird visualization thing where I'm like is it this ? Is it this , is it this ? And then I land on something and I'm like oh , it's that , it's that thing from when I was 13 . Oh , it was that when I was 13 that I figured . So them cutting in scenes from season one the bear fucking up .

It didn't feel out of place to me . It felt like they were trying to get you to understand what it's like to not know exactly what is wrong but know that you feel weird about something and it has the rough shape of something my stepfather said you know like , is that making any sense as the cops come to drag me away .

We could table it maybe coach will be here for us but that is like I have such a an extreme reaction to it .

Something that makes sense for me , and at least with regard to the flashbacks , I didn't have that same experience as you did , um , but but read uh the line here and , and let's walk us through this , let's see

if we get through this .

And he is saying how the fuck are you spending that much ?

Then it's the best , is Carmi's response , and he says oh yeah , suck me as way out , because you can't spend . You cannot buy a used car's worth of butter .

Doors , doors , doors . It's starting to be crazy . Messy . Sloppy looks like grape or pinkish wine marks on Ibra's shoulder and we see that the pot that was overflowing looks like a sauce that Ibra was making . Tina's station looks . You know what do they say ? Housekeeping .

Yeah , when I had all the people at the Cape , I was cooking for 16 people at the Cape and I was cleaning up like there's this big island . I don't have an island in my kitchen here .

We have a little house , but at the Cape there's this big island and I was scrubbing it and I was yelling housekeeping , jeff , uh , and only juliana understood what the hell I was talking about .

It just looks like she might be under the gun a little bit . She looks stressed . Uh , carmy , excuse me , yeah , one second . Excuse me , yeah , one second , please , richie , move , please , yeah , one second . Shot , shot , shot , move , move , move , move . Oh my God , where's the fucking fire ? Just try to write a wine list . What list ? Non-negotiables .

Carmi says no , richie , yeah , no , no , richie , no , yeah , yeah , I'm getting fucking drilled out there . Richie says and I'm writing some fucking non-negotiables . Richie wants his own non-negotiables , right ? So you would say he's still appalling .

Uh , if that's what you call it I don't know thinking theater terms , but like I don't know what they call that uh , a courtesy window for any menu changes . Eight hours is okay . Um , this is what um richie's saying . 10 hours is ideal . Trim nails these are on the list . A willingness to accommodate dietary restrictions ? That's not on the list . That's important .

Um , joy , just in general . Joy , I'm how , I don't know how , anyone's not with him on that .

Open heart , open mind , that's an important one for you . They're yelling at each other .

I'm saying telling people we should have some joy in here , can we get some joy ? It doesn't mean anything .

So it is saying like , let me put a few things on your radar . That , and it's totally doable . Like joy is not not doable . It's totally doable . Like joy is not doable , it's doable if we avail ourselves of the possibility of it . If we say , hey , it's allowed in these doors , joy , we don't have to be miserable all the time .

Maybe that's a byproduct of the level of stress and tension . But , at least he's pointing it out . No one has the balls or the ability or the wherewithal or the time or the energy to even try to bring things up with Karmie , because he's so unapproachable about this stuff .

I think that I have gotten , throughout my career , a lot of lip service at places where we were not equipped to be doing the work that we were , because we were understaffed and underpaid and fucking stressed all the time . And trying to set up , uh , legal clinics in fucking iraq to take care of people in , um , the northern counties .

And if they had said , well , we're gonna bring in some more joy , I'd be like you gotta go get fucked because what I need to do is figure out how to get them money . So you telling me joy doesn't do shit for me .

So you can't say , oh , let's introduce joy at this point because , yes , that ship has sailed . I don't think Richie is saying we're going to inject joy into , into this place .

I think he's pointing out things that are not happening and I don't think he really believes for a second that carmi is going to let him add anything to this list of non-negotiables , and carmi , of course , dismisses him . Give it to sugar , she'll print it out . Uh , he says , uh , basic manners and decency , please give it to sugar .

Like basic manners and decency , an environment that embraces and encourages razzle , dazzle and the dream weave , richie enough right , and , and so this is for me

.

Are you , richie , presenting me with reasonable things that you want to have added to the list , or are you trying to be a dick because I'm in charge ?

I don't know what the fucking dream . Carmy says richie enough . Um , please , back to work . Thank you , what I say , what I say , thank you . The list goes on . All right , we'll type it up . Thank you , right , um , very defensive . Richie says very defensive . I see you , I see you , thank you , thank you .

Carmy says trying to stop this interaction , uh , and richie says fucking bitch .

I like think that he is still extremely hurt and damaged and I hope that we get to a point where he addresses that he came in here with a shitty list that I don't think he believes it could be functionally implemented , that he is doing in order to maybe make a point to car me , but isn't being done in good faith , and also that will not eventually help

the restaurant , because what he says is I'm getting fucking slammed out here . Also . You back here need to move faster and also accommodate dietary preferences If we give you an eight hour window .

That wouldn't also imply please move faster and better .

I don't think anyone would expect anybody here to move faster because they're they seem to be going at a fucking brutal pace as it is . I just think Richie has deliverables he's got to bring to the table . He's the one that has to answer for the delays , the mistakes these guys can cause .

They can make whatever decision from their ivory tower they want their ivory tower .

There's a standard that Kami's holding everybody to that is not .

Either they're not capable of reaching that standard in a timely fashion or Well , I think that's it they're not capable of reaching that standard that , whatever the standard Kami has placed on it , reaching that standard , that whatever the standard to Kami has placed on it , they're not capable of reaching it in a fashion that Richie can actively explain or sort of

allows them to serve the customer which is his job in a predictable fashion , and I think he's asking for more predictability around that .

If only they had somebody in that role whose job it was to take care you don't do that running ideally .

I don't think it's good for the customers , I don't think it's good for Richie , I don't think it's good for the reputation of the restaurant .

His job is to serve . Get him the stuff on time . And so that he can put it out . All right , he's the whatever , he's the maitre d' whatever , but he's in charge of the wait and his job is to make sure the food gets dropped . And it's not getting dropped , okay . So people are pissed off . So and he has to be uh on the hook for that .

He has no control over the uh production of the food and the timeliness of the delivery . All he does is correct , so he doesn't have any control over it . So he's asking hey , can we , is it possible to fix the process so that we have more standardization in the dropping of this food ? I don't think it's crazy to bring these issues up .

Richie said yes to substitutions as long as they give us eight hours . Richie is the one that said we can introduce additional unpredictability into this process if they tell us eight hours in advance .

Richie is saying back of the house needs to accommodate my wishes to give the guests this specific experience , but you also need to make sure that you do it in a way that doesn't piss me off .

I don't find blame to place on Richie as to the state of affairs here . I don't .

Number one the first season of this show we talked at length about how much we loved the fact that the audience , that the show didn't dumb itself down for the audience , that it didn't explain what staging was at first , that it allowed us to build an understanding of that . What changed ?

So that now you feel like the fact that you don't have Alan to explain these things to you makes the show not as good .

I worked in restaurants but they weren't like this . They weren't even like . This is like a completely different industry than what I worked in . It was a pretty high end . I worked in a few places and they were like dinner jackets on the waiters and you know it was expensive .

I made really good money as a waiter at these restaurants because they were expensive restaurants and it was nothing like this , nothing at all . So I say , ok , that was years ago , when I was much younger . So restauranting has come a long way .

I have absorbed what the bear , the show , writ large , has taught me about restaurants and so I'm just operating on that , on what I think they've taught me . And you're saying you're finding fault with something or like you seem to have a bone to pick with the manners , the manner in which Richie addresses these things . Yes , and I don't know .

I'm not saying it's not in a Richie sort of way , richie Jermovich sort of asshole-ishness kind of way You've always said oh , I like assholes as long as they're fighting for the right thing . I don't see him fighting for the wrong thing . For the right thing , I don't see him fighting for the wrong thing .

So I would think that that would comport with your asshole standards that you say you like , because he's just fighting for his , his little part of the of the business to be run properly .

When they say it's going to be grown , it's expected to be ready . So what ? Whatever the case may be , I take it almost doesn't matter , because that's not really the the bone I have to pick with the scene , the

. The thing I take away from it is that Karmie is unapproachable and when somebody does , the first person we've seen to address this of this season is Richie , and Karmie shuts it down immediately and is defensive and is reluctant to just even engage with any of it .

And he does say sure , say sure , have printed out or whatever , like in that way it's like , okay , maybe that's his version of like . I can't focus on this , I have to only focus on what I'm whatever , whatever it is , I still I'm like what ?

What is happening here , like this is like so dysfunctional , yes , and and maddening and um , but I don't , I don't fault richie at all at all . It's so funny at at all .

Dazzle is a fuck you , carmen , you're nonsense . But he's also pretty serious about making dietary substitutions up until eight hours before the reservation , before the dinner starts yes , that's a real .

It doesn't change the fact that the immobility of the premise that , okay , we do it for this but we don't do it for anything else is something that richie is trying to contend with and therefore it's inside of his job to manage the front of the thing , to uh to manage the front of the house , to to sort of have uh a mechanism whereby he can better serve

the customer , uh , which is his job . So I'm like I don't , I don't , I don't , I don't see it .

But him trying to assert his dominance over car me in these ways isn't good for anybody in the restaurant . It's not good for Carm , it's not good for Richie , it doesn't fucking work .

And boss , if that's what they wanted , it didn't land with me a bit . I didn't make those connections even close . This is a brand new day . It's a totally different type of restaurant . There's always going to be a infighting between these cousins . There's always going to be an issue .

We haven't at all resolved the horrible shit that Carmi said to Richie for no fucking reason , when he should have been thankful , are you ? We're going to need another hour . Well , we don't have it .

What I am telling you is that for me , this is the culmination of their entire relationship , including the fact that when Carmen was experiencing the worst night of his life , professionally and romantically , instead of taking care of him in any way , shape or form , richie said what the fuck did you do , asshole ? And then called him Donna .

And we can talk about this .

I'm telling you that it is that serious . If they called you Kath , meaning your mom , meaning my mom If they insulted me , that same way After they had saved you , if it was the worst day of your life , that they just saved yes , does not matter , okay the people that are the closest to me in the entire world .

I've always said that I'm going to pretend that you just walk around as a mute automaton doing shit . No , your words mean shit too .

Jesse . Yeah , jesse , yeah Okay , and he's like okay , I think I see a pattern to it . He had studied it , improved himself to the point where he could get to , like , jump into the fray when he was needed , and you can't take that away from him . I'm not taking that away from him . There's no version of that where he didn't save the day .

I'm saying um , we never got to go over that episode because we started on season one and then had to jump right to season three , uh , and so it's no wonder that we are , uh , misaligned when we think about um , you know , when we ascribe culpability or or responsibility to different characters at the at the sort of close of season two , it's no wonder that ,

um , uh , in seeing it very , very clearly , very , very differently , um , that's a that , that , that that Mars the launching point for how we're experiencing season three ? Sure , um , so so . So , yes , how we're experiencing season three ? Sure , so , yes , it's not a surprise , and yeah , no , it's going to be a trip , because your face is so red right now .

Sorry about how I just made a second abortion joke 31 .

We just have an amazing community and we would love for you to join it . All you have to do is subscribe . I will say that I should have made this note .

A couple of weeks ago , I turned on a feature that was a new feature with our podcasting platform , which was called I think it's called Fan Mail , and what it does is it allows , it adds a link to the description where you can click on it and then text us , and we've gotten so many amazing messages .

So , really honest , from the bottom of my heart , thank you so much . Here's the thing it's not a real text . It just goes into the platform and I read it through the platform and I can't respond .

So , in a way , I'm like thinking about turning it off , because I'm like , oh God , some people have made amazing points , some people have been so kind and , if you know me and if you're on the platform in our community site . You know I like to interact , I love people .

It's not one of those places where you put something out and then the podcast people sort of trick you into joining their community and then they're never there . We're there all the time and we personally respond . I just posted some pictures from that trip I mentioned to California . We try to really be engaged with the Buttercups .

We love them and it's a great thing . So if you have done , I might just turn that off because it's so frustrating to not be able to . What are you laughing about , boss ? She's laughing . I see you're laughing .

But in addition to John Barenthal getting a guest actor nod , liza Colon-Zayas , who plays Tina , got a nomination for Best Supporting Actress . So I'm very excited about that . I don't put a lot of stock in awards , but I do like that she is getting recognized . I think she was great this season . She's always great , always great . No , argument for me there .

We'll be back next time with part two . Um , we'll be back next time with part two . Hopefully coach is feeling better and he will serve as referee , because can't really be left alone in the same sandbox together . Please support your local libraries and the written word , raise better boys , and until next time we are .

Richmond till you're dead to me which I feel like happened sometime during this episode . So , thank you , oh God , no , come on . Thanks everybody , we'll see you next time .