Ted Lasso | S3 Ep11 Part9 "Mom City"

We were just talking about how wonderful it is to watch reaction videos where people who have not heard of a certain type of music have their minds blown , and Coach was just saying , oh , it's like the definition of curious and not judgmental , because you're like , hey , I'm open to all kinds of music , let's hear whatever the one that I cited .

I watched someone who wasn't familiar with Metallica , like listening to some Metallica riffs and just had their mind blown . And Coach and Boss reminded me of the great one of the two kids responding to In the Air Tonight by Philip Collins Fantastic , so good , right , I mean really is our . This is the thing I was just saying .

One of the things I really like about those videos is that they it's all good , like it's all , just like positivity . You know , I mean sometimes it doesn't , sometimes reaction videos there's some criticism or whatever .

But the ones where everybody has their mind blown and they love what they're seeing for the first time and it's so much fun and just puts good things into the world , yeah , it's pretty great .

It's usually the ones where I feel like you knew this thing was in the world and now you've decided like this is your vehicle to market . That's usually when I'm like , eh , it's not , that's not interesting anymore , because that's not like cultural exposure . That's just like how many hits can I get or how many you know clicks can I get .

But I like , like those two kids , I fully believe either they are the best actors ever , like sign them up now , or they had never heard that drum come in in their lives , because they almost look like the mind blown emoji , like their faces were just you know , it's great , awesome .

This called the first two pages of Frankenstein and then I went to four concerts and they were amazing . And then two weeks ago , almost out of nowhere , they were like hey , here's an entirely brand new album with brand new stuff .

And before I could really sit down and get into it and listen to it and love it , I checked on Reddit and they said watch out , this is a sad one . And I thought what do you mean ? What do you mean by that that this is a sad one ? Because they have tote bags that just say sad dads , the national , and that's their brand .

They have a song that's called Sorrow that came out on one of their earlier albums . Like calling this the sad one makes me concerned . But it turns out I have seen my death and I understand what it is and I'm speaking , I think , here maybe to only a couple of people . Possibly .

My sister is Queen of the Buttercups , jenna Kristen , I want to say who is from Chicago and also loves the national and is an accountant .

It's kind of like when a chef does like chicken thighs , two weights and they present it to you in two different interpretations . These two songs are basically the same , but not exactly they meld very well together .

So what is going to happen is that I'm going to go to a national concert and they're going to play Space Invader and then at some point Matt Berninger is going to sneak in the line hey , are you awake ? Which is from About Today , and then I'm going to immediately collapse and that will be the end of me .

That's going to be too emotionally overwhelming for me to exist on this planet anymore , and then I'll be gone .

So I kind of am very envious to when I hear you like , oh , like this moment where , like , oh , my God , there's a new album and then you set aside time in your day and you wish your mood is right and you get your edibles ready or whatever people do let's make sure you get the right food . All right , no , put your phone on . Do not disturb .

We're going to do this Like that's . That is something it's like a it's kind of amazing .

And then somebody makes something that I like so much , even though I don't like anything . There's a band that did it that was like hey , we're going to make this album and it's going to be for you , and I'm like thanks , that's really really nice , I fine .

One thing I said sort of off the cuff at one point , which is usually when I figure out what the fuck I think about things is it's the , it's the place . You can't lie .

There's something in me and I I'm sure you can tell me , though there's propaganda , but I'm just saying , like , on a fundamental level , I just feel like there's something in music that you listen to it and you know at some level what this is about and that's it . And , yeah , auto tune .

It makes me remember a time where I felt , like I don't know , kind of , I don't know , like there was something looking out for me in a really happy way and it feels good to think about that and I get why , why believers feel that way and stuff makes a lot of sense .

It's , it's , it's wonderful , so , and the music can really channel that and kind of crystallize it and really sort of compress it down to the key elements , and then it's sung , so what you're like can tap your toe to it . You're really amazing . So pretty great . Okay , we're going to jump in Ted Lasso , season three , episode 11 .

We left off at Jamie Tartt walking off the field with a huge hurrah and we're going to sort of overlap a little bit before I jump far ahead into the inevitable flaming of the great flaming of 2023 , when we're recording this at the hands of one , the indefatigable Emily Chambers .

I want to just dwell for one more minute on the Jamie Tartt walk off , because if we're going to double up on anything in this show , let's make it this , which was , which was phenomenal and which , running out of time , last time we sort of had to gloss over a tiny bit . So Jamie comes in , scores a goal .

I have lamented , or slash complained , that we didn't see it , but nevertheless he scores the goal . It's this beautiful moment and then our list is a class move from the native man curian not to celebrate against his former club . Everybody goes crazy , of course . You know everybody .

All the you show , you have your , your , your obvious shots of the pub and the owners booth and everyone and the sideline coaches . And then they of course , sub Jamie off . So Jamie Richmond , with the late substitution , that's his out of boy Jamie , well done .

We cut to the pub where Baz yells Jamie Tartt , you fucking king Tartt . Tartt makes way , says Arlo . Listen to this response from city supporters . Now this is where you see the insert of the that loud city fan , the bearded guy who was like you know . OK , begrudgingly , like whatever .

Now I want to talk about this moment very , very quickly , because I think it's it's important that this was Manchester , and so one thing that we didn't get to last time is they set up this thing where Jamie goes home and on the way a couple of little man curian brats just light his ass up there . They are brash and profane and more like .

Jamie fart right and so you're like OK , this is a working class city , manchester has that reputation .

And so there's this beat where , if we , if we think about the tiny little Ark inside of this game , they came out showing him a Manchester is working class man . You should know this , you're from here . And he reacted like a Londoner . He reacted whining , throwing his arms out . Remember this right .

Not only am I going to tough it out to get back onto the field , which is a very Roy Kent move , but he's also going to score the clinching goal . And then , of course , ted makes the move . Where that ? You remember there was all this talk on the sidelines . Oh , roy says , I don't mind if he plays her . And I played her at all the fucking time .

And you guys remember what what Beard said to that .

You know , you don't leave him out there . No , no , no , no , job done .

Just think of what it means for Tart to hear this and what it means for his family . We cut to Georgie freaking out because you again , we didn't get a chance to stress this . Nobody gets this , nobody . You could go your whole life and hear this once .

I know you just stressed it , but I think that there's something about going home again and getting this reception that is unbelievable , like if you said to me like well , in though , in your future , one day you're going to have whatever show you write , you're going to do your solo show , you're going to sell out freaking Barclay Center in downtown Brooklyn , and

you're going to get a fucking ovation Like , what , like , what else is life supposed to hold after that ? Yeah , you know , and yeah , so this is . Yeah , it got to me and I like that . It was for what it was for . It wasn't for scoring a goal , it was for toughing it out , it was for , yes , now that you okay , you're so talented , fantastic .

But when you get dinged up , do you just , you know , limp off to the side and oh I can't ? or do you say my team needs me and if I can walk , I'm playing ?

I'm going to say that scientists who are kicking ass in the lab don't have this kind of support . Teachers who make a breakthrough with a fourth grader and change their lives Don't get this support . Mathematicians who just are , are working on problems for forever until they have a breakthrough Don't get this support .

I don't necessarily think we as a civilization , focus on the right things , but one of the reasons that I know that we do focus on sports is because you do see these moments with clarity , and that's what lends to to sort of a this mythos around certain characters , namely a guy like Roy Kent and I'll point out that Jamie had a Roy Kent poster on his wall

because he he valued these things and then he made because of his dad and because of who he chose to be , he made every wrong decision and I promise you , there's this beautiful moment , right . There's this beautiful mom coach , You're going to love this . I promise you you're going to love this .

Jamie Tart always wanted this moment and knew he fucking deserved it until this right before he got injured in this game , when he totally forgot about it and became the real Jamie Tart . And that's when he got , and then that's when he earned it .

That's why he looked surprised because , he had totally forgotten about anything having to do with him and when he got out it was all about the team . Everybody could see it right .

And also in the same way and this is one of the reasons you look at Roy Kent when he's talking to those little kids that are ripping on Jamie and he goes good lads , he doesn't say hey , shut up , you little bastard , because he's like no , no . This is the critical essence , this is what makes you a man , kieran .

This edge , this attitude , I know this is why you have pitched battles anytime a Boston team fights a Chicago team , or anytime a Chicago team fights a Philadelphia team , anytime a Philadelphia team fights a New York team , because there's something about that segment of the popular , less so with some of the and it's not casting aspersions on any of the teams that

aren't from there . But I know there's an edge , it's a difference . Yeah , there's just an edge . And so Jamie Tarko's out . They rough him up , as you do , to get inside Again . We talked about the mental part of the game and how that's one of the places you can always get to somebody .

That's well outside the rules in most cases , and it wasn't until he healed up and then got cocky like a man , kieran , where he went out and was like like he . The last thing he did before he beat them was mock them .

He put his ears to his things like bring it , and instead of being like fuck that guy , the people in Manchester are like that's our boy , that's , that's the Jamie Tart .

When we had him , when we had him on loan , when we loaned him to Richmond , we were hoping this is the Jamie Tart that would come back to us instead of the one that was on Love Island , or whatever .

We're seeing like it's the essence of who who this guy is and , quickly , a story that I've told on stage before .

But about my son , you know they're a little , they were doing Taekwondo and go to this tournament and you know , just because kids are the same age , like Jesus Christ , like somebody's , couple times , some kid like hurled by my other child through the air and I was like holy shit , like you know , I think me and your dad , I think me and your dad got thrown

out of the parking lot for this Jesus Christ .

And he goes out there and in the blink of an eye gets thrown down twice and the second time hits his head on the ground and , without telling the story , that leads

to it . Something that I'd like preach to him was when you get knocked down , you get back up and so , like that was like over and over , I actually made them a birthday song One of their first couple of years . I made them songs for their birthday . We gave out these CDs and I made them a song One of them . That was the theme of the song .

Okay , so the second time his head hits the mat they have on these , you know , head gear or whatever and it boom and he comes back up and the look on his face is like , yeah , that's about enough of that shit and he destroyed the kid Really .

I've had someone say to me why do people from Brooklyn say they're from Brooklyn like that ? And I say to let motherfuckers know , To let you know , like before you do whatever it is you're about to do , or say whatever it is you're about to say , you should know this . And yeah to me , jamie .

When he put his hands to his ears he was like you know who I am ? Do you know who I am ? I'm Jamie .

He's just like blown away , like he's in the moment with her , which I love that support . As he runs off , roy waves him over , says something we will never know what Roy says .

I wonder if , like some , someday we'll hear what the writers or show runners or whatever looked up trying to find , if anybody had a theory , or if Brett Goldstein , you know , could say right but it almost doesn't matter .

But yes , it's like , it's like , it's like Jedi and Padawan in that moment , like that's like when he becomes a Jedi is like , that's like that moment . Then we get the moment the boss hates . But as as we're going to that moment , singular .

I'm not as petty as boss , is what I'm trying to say . I'm getting a look . I'm getting a look .

It feels like a Raymond Carver short story where it's like oh wait , did he died ? Did he not die , like ? And then you talk about it and people wonder yeah , I think he probably died or no , I think he's , he's just lost in whatever . Anyway , we do get the insert and I was like what are they trying to say here ?

And I think it has to do with second chances , I think it has to do with sort of corrections in the universe . But you know , you have the dad's slow clapping which is borderline painful if you're someone who , yeah , bosses , now I'm getting a different kind of look . I'm getting a look of approval for boss .

I understand the the dislike of all of that , but I think what they're trying to say is they're taking a position the way we try to take a position . They're saying isn't the world beautiful ? Like what a beautiful , louis Armstrong .

Ask what a what a wonderful world when you can , as James Tartt , senior , abuse your son , be the worst , worst fucking dad possible , be an addict and a degenerate and a Laos and arrogant and narcissistic and obnoxious .

And still , when you decide at some point whether he chose it or didn't choose it , whether it was chosen for him by the courts , when you are able to have a clearer view of the world , you find that the boy that you tried to keep down has succeeded beyond your wildest expectations , in spite of you , and what , and as a statement about the world that that's

possible . That actually is a hopeful concept , that like we're not

. I know people , you know the way I was raised . Some people are like they'll see my family and they'll go like how did you , How'd you ? Or they'll come to like a family .

So my friends have been to like a family event with everybody in my family and I'm definitely another thing you know like it's like , it's like everybody's sort of one thing in my family and they're great , you know , in their own special way . But I am , I am sort of a different entity in my family and I think it's nice that .

You know , nice is a very tepid word , but I think it is empowering , that we are not beholden to the chains that are put on us by our immediate family . And whether or not we need to see the reaction of James Tartt Sr is immaterial . I think that .

I think it's just that the show is yes , it's a Disney-esque sort of overly optimistic take , but it's actually something I believe in . I don't think we are limited by . I think almost everybody can rise ahead , given the proper situation , and so , yeah , I think it's . I think it's ultimately .

I think that was what they were going for with that message whether or not it landed , whether or not it was the right shot about bosses and shaking head , no , but whether or not it is , I was trying to figure out at least , and give them the benefit of that and say , okay , what were they actually trying to do here ?

Whether or not it succeeded as a whole other thing .

Yes , there are a couple of things there that I would just tweak a little bit and I think I don't think James Tartt Sr saw himself as abusing his son when he took him , to quote unquote become a man in the red light district and I don't think he thought he was holding him down when he said , you know , do a cleat at him and said , you know , you think

I came all the way down here to see you pass . He's got it wrong and he probably knows like nobody's gonna nominate him for dad of the year , but I don't think . But I don't think that's his intent .

I don't , it was deeply damaging and not the right way to go , but I don't think he did it from a place of I'm gonna keep you down , you're gonna get too good and I don't want you to be good .

He wanted him to be the greatest , but I think he wanted him to be the greatest so that he wanted Jamie to be the greatest , so that he , james senior , could be validated Like Jamie is in a world , kind of looking at it way , the best thing about this guy , like if in the context of the show , but I think in the context of the world .

Why would anybody care if he went to rehab or didn't , other than oh , that's Jamie Tart's dad .

What they told us was James Tart is now in rehab and he's watching his son on the TV , but we don't know any of the background behind how that happened or why that came to pass or what is going to happen with this . They showed us essentially like a fucking Hallmark card , and they were like here see , everybody gets a second chance .

That isn't impactful to me . If other people got something out of it , absolutely go for it . I think that it is a disingenuous representation of what happens when people go to rehab and when somebody of his age would be entering rehab at that time maybe not for the first time , who knows but it didn't land . For me it did not work .

I thought that they put too little preparation into what they were expecting to be too much of a payoff . Like showing me him in rehab doesn't make me think he's good now , or not even that he's good now . He has a chance . He has a second chance . I have no idea what's going to happen up from that .

Maybe he'll get out of rehab and immediately start drinking . And if all you're trying to say is that he has a second chance , absolutely I agree with that .

The scene did nothing for me .

I guess the way I would phrase what I took was there's hope for everybody , not so much like oh , he's going to be fine , like maybe he's not going to be fine , but you know there's hope he can try and he's trying , for whatever the reason is . And so , yeah , I think , but yes , I am with you that yeah , it's not .

Oh , you know what , like this , being an alcoholic thing , is getting kind of getting kind of lame . I'm going to go to rehab , like no , that's not at all a reality , you're right ?

They were too horrible . They do not deserve it . I hope I wish them well . I hope that their lives are fine . One of them's dead , so I don't think that he's going to be getting any forgiveness or going to be able to do any forgiveness from me . So that's a whole different thing .

But , like in those cases , I want to sort of challenge the idea that the show presents that everyone should give everybody else a second chance . I fundamentally do not believe in that .

I think it is actually dangerous in a lot of cases and that it is wildly unfair to expect some people who have been hurt tremendously by others that they should be the ones to be the bigger person in order to give somebody a second chance . You are not obligated to give somebody a second chance if you don't feel equipped to do it .

If it's better for you , if you feel like forgiveness is good for you , great . I am just to be perfectly honest . My stepfather was a fucking asshole . He wasn't a creep , which unfortunately is a thing that sometimes you need to clarify , but he was a huge fucking asshole .

He was horrible to every single person in my family in a number of different ways , and one time when I was talking to my therapist about him , I said something I can't remember what it was , and she was like , oh , that doesn't sound great . And I was like , no , I mean to be perfectly clear and sorry if this is getting trigger warnings , maybe , people .

He was a heroin addict who didn't have a job , and so one of the things that that meant was that he would steal from everybody in the family , anybody who had money or something of value he would take , like from his stepchildren , he would steal shit . And so I said something about that to my therapist one time and she was like whoa ?

And I was like , well , yeah , I don't like when my therapist says whoa , this is not a great sign , but God damn , yeah , exactly .

He used to be honest to God , like sometimes my family and I talk about how sometimes we're like , oh , and then this really funny thing happened , and then you're telling it to somebody and you could see their face .

Yes , I need everybody to know that Coach Bishop has his hand up for his mouth because I did one .

And if he darkens my doorstep , so help me . God , right , like I will , right , and I and I'm like , yeah , I get it , I get it . And if she says good for him he went to rehab , he's helping little kids now Well , tell them to hide their shit .

And she said you don't have to get past this , like you don't have to forgive him ever . If that is not good for you , if it doesn't , if it feels like something you have to do rather than something you want to do , you could never forgive him .

It could say forever that he broke his relationship with you because he was the parent and the adult and he inflicted injuries onto you and you get to think for the rest of your life he's a piece of shit and I want nothing to do with them .

And I like the amount of relief immediately that I didn't need to do any emotional labor to get to a place where I would be able to forgive him immediately .

And then I honest had like at that point I sort of put the entire idea of him away and , except for rare occasions where it comes up like this , I don't think about him Like he's dead and he's an asshole and it's over .

I wonder if , because of the specific dynamic with James and Jamie , you thought not , you really thought , but like an abstract is kind of way you thought you stole my clarinet asshole and I thought right , and I thought everyone , you know , there's hope for everyone and those are not opposing views , like there's hope for everyone .

But there are people who I'm like listen , listen seriously on site , like stay out of my field of view , there's going to be a fucking problem . Like just don't , yeah , you know , like one like one family member hit me up about a birthday party they're going to have in a year and was like so I know there's this thing .

And I was like no , no , no , I will behave myself at your party . I will not straighten it out , then I will do it on my own time . But like they knew to contact me because they were like , yeah , if this person enters Orlando's field of view , it is going to be a situation . So I have to figure out how to do this .

You see this shit all the time on Twitter where people are like well , I had to go , no contact with my abusive mother or whatever . And people are like , oh , but that's family , don't you want to ? Don't you want to be close to your family ? And I'm like no , if , if . What they know is that it is not safe for them . Do not fucking guilt trip .

When I see , when I see like those real casual sort of observations on , like a platform , a social media platform , like okay , yeah , yeah , that's clear that you're showing that you don't know this type of month or this , this breed of danger .

That's why I'll say people like oh you know , talk about scars . I'm like I just love scar , I love people who have been through it and one of the reasons that we have this podcast , one of the reasons that we have a great listener community I would argue not even argue , I would I would posit a suggestion that all of our butter cups are this in some

way . Yes , they have all been through something . And yet , in the same way that we heard boss , you know it's very I could see it being troubling for people . The casual way that boss has made peace with some of some real hardcore thing . I could see like people like , wow , that is really sort of lackadaisical way of approach . I could see that .

But also , in the same breath , you go , wait . This is a person who just said as we started this podcast , that she's going to die from emotion If the lead singer of something says one thing she is not boss you . I'm not going to talk about you like you're not in the room . You have not lost your passion .

You've not lost your love of life , your zest for , for , for being connected with things and people . You have not given up or thrown your hands in the air because of one shithead and you're able to kind of put it in perspective and compartmentalize it and go .

You know what , like not everyone is a shithead , but now I know I identify as shithead and I can see it coming a mile away and then you build better boundaries because of that shithead and you just go . Okay , so it's a way of turning , turning a really you know lemons into lemonade , for lack of a better analogy . And so it is . It's just great .

It's great to see and I really admire it .

And I think at some point maybe we might have to collaborate on something where I just hear all your stories and put it into something Because , like , I can see it so visually , like a story , like a visual story about a little girl going to play her clarinet and it's like what , the like , your heroine , and like having to go get the clarinet back from the

pond broke . Oh my God , like how is this a thing ? But like this is a thing you've decided , you've established this happened to you .

I have said before , I don't really trust people who haven't been broken in some way which I also understand if people are like , well , that's kind of fucked up , but like I want , yes , I feel like I think I've mentioned on the show before that a friend of mine said the world is beautiful and not safe and I think that it's not just that I like the idea

of that , it's that it it you ? Yes , I think that the world is beautiful because it's not safe . Like there is an element of this that if you go through some hard shit , you develop an appreciation . I'm not saying you can't develop that appreciation without hard shit .

I'm just saying that having challenges and having these things makes you appreciative of all the good shit in life , usually unless it breaks you . Let's be fucking honest like my stepdad went through some shit . I am in a position where I could acknowledge and advertise enough that he went through some shit and that's why he was the way that he was .

It's just , I can't take on any responsibility for fixing that .

I don't know if this is true for Georgie , but I'm sort of using her as a bit of a like character , you know avatar , based on what she said , but like that , you know , she's like I don't give a fuck , like if , truly , if he won a Nobel Peace Prize and she was like I don't give a fuck , he better not darken my doorstep , I'd be like I get it , I

get it . Yeah , you know , and I think that has to do with to be okay . I wanted to ask and I just want the . I don't not that I don't want you to tell a story , coach , but I just want the fact right now , what body part was it that you heard that ended your soccer career ? Wasn't it your ankle ? It was my right ankle .

Okay , because he is no , no , and I'm for real , because I actually connected that piece earlier of when we both said , you know , like , I feel like we connected to the stories in specific ways . That's , that's super specific .

And I think for you , when he went down , I am sure you were like that fucking hurts , like , yes , he could have been any body part and you could have , in the abstract , said , oh , that sucks .

It could have been , he tours , hip , rotate , whatever , but the ankle pain specifically , and I think why that scene impacted and impacts me , of Jamie walking off and sort of the what plays out from there , what we see in the different places and locations , and is that we all like , when you have been broken in some way , right , when you have , you know , taken

the hit and still managed to play on , you get it , you fucking get it . You , when you're like I have , you know , like because it wasn't a clarinet Like what he stole was your sense of safety , what he stole was right , like no little kid should feel I am fundamentally unsafe around the people whose primary fucking job is to keep me safe .

Like that is unacceptable . And yet you're here , right , like , yet you're here appreciating the national and having a healthy relationship and doing your thing and making sure that people don't lose money they shouldn't lose . I'm not going to say anymore about that and just put up with seriously like you .

So I think , like , when they , when we get Jamie's moment on some level , for those of us who've embedded ourselves spiritually and emotionally in the story , it's our moment to , it's our moment to go .

You know what I'm , jamie Tart , so , like , maybe I have a way of saying and doing things that sometimes you know I'm the Prince prick of all pricks and all this kind of stuff , but I played on , I played fucking on , and that counts for a lot .

This is a shout out to class warfare folks and you're the chips are down . No matter what your race class warfare can get you out of your predicament Always . Okay . So there's this beautiful

moment . After that sterling performance from Richard , the Premier League title will come down to the final week of the season . Chris , they could win the whole effing thing , says Arlo . Chris is sorry for the almost perforated language there , folks , almost perforated language .

There is a funny moment where Higgins breaks out of his frozen stupor when they actually win , which I thought was fun . He actually makes it through . God , god help the craziness of Higgins . Good game , good game .

I love when players it's probably just a stupid little thing , but I love when , like football players will like score a big touchdown they're these hulking masses , or whatever and then they like politely shake hands with each other like a little bow or whatever .

Of you know , they met him out of character , they get to meet him in character and then they show themselves fanboying , like beard is losing his mind right , like because it's such an iconic figure and I'm like , wow , what a great moment to have in your life .

Again , just like you say , there are certain moments that I've had in my life where it's like you , just you don't get these moments and it was because of , mostly , one of our friends has , like , had a tremendous amount of success and he will often let one of us ride his coattails into some preposterous , you know thing that never happens to anybody .

Yeah , like we're just going , oh my God , this is that kind of thing where you get to cast Pep and have him in the show . He basically gives his analysis of total football and the lasso way right , it's summed up in this tiny thing and they both do the oh my God , oh my God , oh my God . And then we get this thing that we glossed over last time .

This is kind of the reason I wanted to come back . Pep and Jamie have a little , have a little word together .

It just would not get through to the point where they had to say , remember , on the episode I think it was the season , uh , season two , premiere , or or or as early in season two , where Jamie was like , oh , we'll talk to Pep and see .

Um , you know , pep was basically trying to make Jamie the best version of himself on and off the field while he was at man City , lent him to put him on loan to Richmond to see , like , okay , maybe these guys can do something , right , uh , and then , uh , when he comes back and finds a way to mess it up and like to the point where Pep gave up on or

Pep put him out to pasture , knowing , like I , whatever , the next step is that's got to get him to this version of Jamie , by the way , that he's shaking hands with , who just beat him ? Right , who was out of the league ? Right , they couldn't get a call from anybody .

And like to the point where he was going to be a reality , uh , uh , tv person who was famous for just being famous , right , sort of famous , right , he was going to be . Like the entertainment side of his agency was about to take him over and leave the sports side of the agency behind .

And all of that was part and parcel of , like , the Jamie Tart character arc slash soccer experience , because he had to in some way hit rock bottom or be accountable for his own actions before he was going to be ready to become this version of Jamie Tart . That pep will shake hands with me like God damn .

Not only that , you know in some abstract , like , oh , this is great , but that will make your team great , like part of why Jamie doesn't do this . If you have the version from season one , I don't care where he can score from , because they would have all just glommed to him .

They didn't have to worry about him passing , they didn't have to worry about him trying , like none of this could have happened with that . Um . So sometimes I think it's almost viewed as like two separate things . Like , oh , either we're making you a better athlete and player or we're making you a better human .

And I think part of the Jamie journey is no , no , no , if you , if you , you are , you are charged with doing both . You and and and be about that business . But what led me there was you saying this version .

He , shaking hands with both Ted and Pep , had an emotional moment when the other one beat them , and I think there's a special brand of respect between competitors .

When it's really comes down to that , when you see the other person dig down or do the thing or somehow exceed what they've been to that point , that is truly inspiring , and they both let him know like you just fucked up my day , man , but I'm really proud of you and I think that's that's huge .

I like that there is an acknowledgement that Ted is not the only way to get this done , that there is a major difference between uh , what's his face , george Cartrick , and the way that he was running the team , and that there is a brand of toxic masculinity that could be at play that would be influencing him the same way that James senior was influencing Jamie ,

but that there are multiple ways of doing this sort of being more compassionate , more understanding , forgiving when you're able to , and not necessarily when you can't but that the Ted Lasso idea should not be . you have to make corny jokes the way that he does in order to be kind , the way that he is 100% .

Take this in a few different ways and that you could have that impact in a few different ways .

But there are moments that are just , on some level , not our business . It's none of our business what Roy said to Jamie , and it's none of our business exactly what Pep said to Jamie , or it's just not our business . It's not for you . It's not right and I like that .

They respect that and it actually it makes the moment for me , it made the Pep moment certainly infinitely more impactful Because , like he said , whatever it is they would say between each other I don't know their relationship like that but I know that fundamental moment .

I've been at a game you know , I said the story last week and I've had other situations like this where , like you're watching , and some kid you worked with now is like there , like you're watching , or you're like oh , oh , like you are doing the things now , and so , yeah , it's none of my , it's really none of my business . I like the choice .

Jamie says something , pep sticks his tongue out , like you know , playfully , taps him on the chest and then heads away and you're like there's something there , clearly , and if there ever was any bad blood , it's erased by who Jamie has become . So that's beautiful . And one thing I want to point out .

I was forgot to have this in the notes and I forgot to say it there's something special about the end of a soccer match because you never know what it's going to be which is very different than other sports .

So the timekeeper , the official timekeeper , is kept by the referee on the field and they have decided what injury time is and you , basically they get a thing that says okay , at the end of the minute , you go into a stoppage time .

At the end of the official 45 minute half , you go on a stoppage time and they usually say like nine , they put up a nine , okay , nine minutes . So you get to the eighth minute eight , 10 , eight , 20 , you know you get into ninth minute . Is it like right at nine ? Is it nine , 10? , is it eight , 40 ?

You don't ever know , but you know that they're not going to stop it while one team is attacking . So you have this thing where you're like , okay , you have this sense when you're watching soccer , okay , keep it in the opponents .

If you can keep pressing desperately , you know , before they kick it out of bounds or before like they can stop the play , somehow you still have this chance to win . And so it's very different than you know all the time ticking out on a basketball game or a football game where you like everybody knows exactly where the thing ends .

It's a weird wrinkle in sport , but it is sort of unique and pleasant . If you're a soccer fan , if it's something you like and I do I like having that , like with baited breath for the final three blasts of the whistle and then everybody goes apeship .

You never quite know when it's going to come and sometimes people will keep track and they'll say okay , I think it's generally here , and you'll see a coach looking at his watch and be like , what's going on .

You got to stop , you got to blow this down , like , but it's still , you know , there's still a , there's still that beat , there's still a little dynamism in that ending . Okay , so we have this now celebratory scene .

After the guys sort of after we get the Jamie and Pat moment we show all the guys in the field celebrating with the fans , which is another thing that I absolutely love , which is very unique to you know , it's football . It's not international football , not American football . They don't do this .

They're like well , they're going to play football , shake with each other or whatever , and then go , go out in hockey . They'll give you , like , the three stars of the game . Sometimes , if it's a huge win , like a playoff win , the guys will come out .

The whole team will come out and like go to the fans and cheer for the fans or whatever , which I really .

I just really liked that dynamic and I wish it was more present , sort of all over the place where the players come out and thank the crowd for supporting them and I just like it as a rule , like I have this criticism of women's soccer that I want to voice quickly , which is at the end of the game .

If you're a fan of women's soccer , you know all the players and you know who they play for their club teams . You'll have like an international team . You have two people going crazy at each other but you know , as a fan , these are best friends , their roommates on their , on their clubs , on their professional team .

They play together the whole year except for this international tournament .

Right off of the anger of that situation and then after the game they're hugging and laughing and being like , yeah , whatever , that's that soccer , we get fired up . They just go , oh my God . But I hate that networks don't realize that diehard fans want to watch these interactions . Players take off their shirts and trade jerseys .

They don't give you that bonus content of everybody on the field afterwards and if they're going to do that , I want to see it . It makes me crazy , and in the NFL it's similar .

But they go like oh , they'll show you the coach , handshake , Right , but then they'll kind of and it's like Okay , yeah , all right , yes , but I would like to see , I want to see the two quarterbacks . I want to see the veteran quarterback and what he says to the rookie quarterback who had a hard day and I like that moment .

And in American football or NFL , last night there was a game between the chiefs and the jets and basically you couldn't have two quarterbacks who are regarded in more opposite ways , like Patrick Mahomes is , you know , regarded as a Demi God , and Zach Wilson is , on his best days , a punchline and on other days , just a punching bag .

And Zach Wilson , like he really showed something . Like he it wasn't quite a JB Tart woman , but I was watching like All right , okay , kid , all right , kid , like you are , you are dueling with the best there is . And at the end of the game they did actually show , and I don't even know how much they meant to capture this .

And I just I really appreciated because to me , you know , some rivalries are just you know , the sight of the other team and I get that stuff and that stuff can be its own brand of fun , but there's a , there's a level of respect that can be woven into that kind of thing and sort of like .

When it's all said and done , I love hearing that in rugby , like no matter how ugly the game might get , at the end everybody just goes out drinking and singing . And I'm like really , yeah , and my friend who was in the rugby is like you would not believe . Like guys who are still like , still have blood on them .

I referenced this a lot coach , and I think that's where hockey and rugby are the two places I've seen it , where it's like , it's like really there's something else going on in addition to , you know , hockey locker room and rugby after parties and rugby , sort of classic rugby tradition stuff can be like like it's very selfless , it's very it can be real gritty .

Yeah , have you either of you read ? Yeah , I think it was called Legend . Yeah , legend , I have the story of the New Zealand All Blacks .

Everybody's cheering , it is . It is just great after everybody's to lose the fans

. You get the bus pulling in to Nelson Road and Kenneth is ushering everybody off like almost in a get the fuck off my bus kind of way , like they're hogging him . You know , it's like a zoo in there and even though he can smoke toad venom , I think this is a bit much for him . He's exhausted by it .

I don't like confessing things to people that they shouldn't be confessing . I don't like professing love to strangers . I don't . I just don't like many of the things that come along with . I don't listen . You know , I love everybody .

I'm as open and kind and happy as a person is you're going to get , but I like to make that choice instead of how the alcohol make it for me . But I was like God , that is still it .

It's like because you can't , even though marijuana is legalized all over the place , it's not the same to be like let's go get high and party Right , it's just not the same rowdy thing to it . Or like maybe it's the imbibing of a liquid , whatever it is . I wish I was thinking like okay , so what ?

I hate when people complain and they don't have an alternative , and I'm like I wish there was a way . If you guys close your eyes , if you close your eyes , boss and coach . Do you see anything behind your eyes ? If you squint hard and close your eyes , do you see any patterns or anything in your eyes ?

And I'm like , what if you could connect your consciousness with all the other players in the team or like whatever you're seeing in your brain , Like so it would be like main lining someone else's brain waves to celebrate , and I'm like , oh , that would be , that would be something cool .

Like the 14 building exercise would be like all right , coach , I mean , I'd be terrified , I would do it with coach Boss . I would be terrified to get inside that melon Shaved , shaved or not . I don't know if I'd come back the same , but I'd be like going to war .

But I'm like , oh , I wish we could just do something else other than well , wouldn't that be cool if there was like a , at least option B , because it really is kind of like let's get , let's get fucking hammered , or , or I'm going to go to bed , but there's not a whole lot other .

And then you're like , oh , there is a weird pattern on the carpet , and then you just see whatever they see and you talk about that . We'll get you into drugs , don't worry about it , it's totally fine .

When I was a kid there was a bar in my neighborhood like I would say neighborhood Within 15 minutes of my house , in a really rundown town , where the people would go in there and it was like a known thing where you could go in and the bartender would give you crack , like crack or ice when that was the thing , and then you go into the attic and you

would smoke it the whole weekend and then you'd go to work Monday . You go to work Monday and you'd make enough money to get enough crack for the weekend . Oh shit and you go give your paycheck to the bartender , you give you enough crack for the weekend . And then the only reason I knew this is because I knew a guy who was in a biker gang .

I've mentioned him before , but he used to take the bodies out of there , the dead bodies , when someone would expire . He was like one of the guys he was making his bronze for this game . Holy shit , man .

Jamie Tart , who is the new Roy Kent ? Jamie Tart , don't go to me , go through me . He has become something . All of the people that go . He was an ass wipe . An ass wipe , to call it , to the point where Roy had to show up at a fucking . Oh no , that was for Nate , right , he was protecting Nate at that time .

Then it's , you know , amigo , which Way to not blow the perfect cast , exactly right , like even a compliment could have been . You know , every interaction he has here is about building them up , bigging them up , telling them you know , either they're great or , you know , have a good time at night , or whatever it is .

It's not about like he is actually still facilitating . He is now socially facilitating , like this is just who he is now .

We cut to the into the office coach's office and I was thinking , oh , I'm gonna throw this to boss , but Done , done , done . I think what I'll do is like coach , why don't we set it up and then let boss interject passionately ? So we'll set it up . We'll set it up to start . Okay , so we're in the office , right , and what's going on here ?

You got beard putting his jacket on .

But the idea that these two men have enough of a tradition , like a tradition of singing a duet of Ireland's In the Stream , that he would say it that way , really made me laugh .

I mean , like talk about the new manhood , like I love to sing Sinatra when I go to places , but like singing Sinatra when you go to places is not singing Ireland's In the Stream in a duet with another duet .

We talk about like forward thinking men , like how many people like if we got up there , you and I , coach , we would laugh our fucking asses off , singing baby to each other and be totally fine and totally it would be perfect , right , but that's the kind of friendship it takes . It takes that kind of friendship to just like you're like . What do we ?

We don't have to pretend we're like . It's a different kind of love , you know . It's like whatever this is written as a love song , we rely on each other , from one lover to another uh-huh , right , somebody that's uncomfortable with their sexuality or they're not gonna be able to pull this off , and that's their song .

I , of course , will sign us up for Islands In the Stream , for I Want your Sex . I will put us on there .

I'm a little slow .

fine .

But I think there's a couple other ones that are be . It'll be kind of no , no , listen , I love you know , I love . Sharon Hardin can do no wrong with me . Like no , zero . Every word out of her mouth is . I would just sit and watch her like read the phone book . I'd pay to do it . But yes , that's interesting .

That's just I'd have to think about that to say are they , is that , are they the best ever ? They're right up there . I think they're the most like , like right now . I think they're the best . I think right now they may encapsulate everything of the now . I , oh my God I could .

That was brilliant , but Ozling B , who plays Onya on the show . She and Brett Goldstein did a short film together that I will need to post to maybe bridge the gap between Ted Lasso and this Way Down .

So look , after we came in , nate had to hide under my desk here for like three whole hours while we're all whooping and hollering and celebrating all around us . Then , once we all split , he thought he was in the clear and boom , cleaning clothes , he was up . Cleaning crew shows up . Oh man , there's another two hours on the desk . Yep , oh man .

Well then after they leave , he crawls out His legs . Just gotta be jelly . He can barely stand up . Look at this . He goes and check the doors , but they're all locked . Oh man , so that's some of the gun . He had to climb out the window here just to get out of the building .

Oh man , you know , I don't know about you , coach , but I hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments , but rather by the strength we show when and if we're ever given a second chance . All right , have fun tonight , coach , and we're a lie on each other .

Either this is him breaking with the no shot in Freudian zone , and that means that they're not keeping his personality consistent , or the other option is Nate hurt him so badly that he has to be happy about this .

So this is not a case where he gets to say like I'm gonna be the bigger person who moved beyond this , but he was damaged by what Nate did to him and Ted and the team and he is upset by it . Still , having said all that , this doesn't feel like Ted sitting down with his best friend and football partner and saying I need you to trust me on this .

This felt like Ted deliberately disregarding Beard's boundaries , disregarding what Beard had said about you bring that Judas back and I'll burn this fucking place in the ground , implementing the same sort of passive aggressive .

I'm not gonna be honest with you about what I'm actually asking for , doddiness that we as an audience dislike from Dottie , like it just went and I'm trying not to time travel too much because there's more information that comes in a couple of scenes from now that colors this interaction that makes me actually angry , like man .

I heard I wanna make sure I heard this so that I can poke holes in it . Sure , absolutely , let's try . We'll see , we'll see , good luck .

I heard that you thought this was a side stepping of his already pre-established boundary . Yeah , okay , and was there something else ? Or was that the main crux of it ?

Because Sam said no one has ever treated me worse than Jamie did . And Ted said I'm not gonna bring Jamie back . And then he did and never had a discussion with Sam about it . And in both of those cases it's supposed to be that Ted is such a big person that he could forgive what Jamie or Nate had done to him and bring them back into the fold .

And what I think the show ignores is that he is making other people deal with the ramifications of that . It isn't that Ted is saying to Rebecca only and nobody else knows I forgive you for what you did . This is him saying hey , sam , jamie's coming back , regardless of how you feel about it .

So I'm just saying in certain cases , in certain cases , like the fact that we're gonna move on and get to the point so you can actually like expand on your point , but the fact that Beard says fuck here as a response Once Ted walks out , beard says fuck because the show is telling us okay , yes , there were boundaries that were established that if you bring

that fucking Judas back here , I'll burn this place again . Okay , how much more clear can I make ? It right ? Except that you're not thinking about the whole picture . I know you well enough to know you're just thinking about the clarinet you're stepdad stole . You're not thinking about the entire team and entire family , right ? So that's the only .

That's the reason Ted was thinking . I think the show is saying I'm not gonna defend the , as if I know actually what's happening . But my sense is the show is saying Ted had to give Beard a wake up call in a way that Beard would hear . And once Beard realizes he goes , fuck , there's a resolution there .

Because he knows Ted's right and he wasn't right when he said I'll burn it to the ground because he had lost the thread . He had forgotten his own humble beginnings and how that plays into like a boss's face . I knew I shouldn't have said it . I was like I shouldn't say this . This is it . I might be able to get away with it .

I'm like don't tie the deal .

I think , listen , do you want to get into it now , or do you want to get into it when we come to the point that you're really gonna have friction with ?

So you sat down with both of us and said can we redetermine the boundaries , can we figure these out in a way that works for everybody and that everybody is comfortable with ?

And Nate did not know how appreciated he was , and Ted gave up on Nate in the same way that he gave up and that's in scary quotes on Michelle . Like Ted has lost two of the people that he was hoping never to lose .

Scare quotes is when it's in text where it's supposed to be the opposite of what it is . Got it ? Sorry , I should just call my air quotes . It's one of my , Mr Bruns , no , no , no , no , it's totally fine , Okay so you're saying that , but . I'm saying the Ted feels that way .

I feel like , if the scene had gone , that Ted said hey , coach , I gotta bring him back , and I understand why you might hate that and if you need to leave , I understand that too , but this is something I have to do for me and for him and for the team . I respect what you're saying , but I need to go in a different direction .

I would have said fine , absolutely fucking fine , ted is allowed to present that and Beard is allowed to decide how he's gonna react to that . What happened here was a manipulation that relied on Beard's own bad history .

She's never said it in those terms , but , like when she is at a restaurant and she sees a little fork that she likes , okay , Her friend , her friend with the intent of having that fork be given to her , will say to the waiter we're coming at one of these forks . This is amazing . And the waiter will say just stick it in your purse .

We have a million of them . Boss will forego that dance and just put it in her purse . Now , that is not because it's right , that is because it's efficient and understealing .

They can say like , even though everybody else has given the approval , I'm going against you . He can do all those things , but instead he finds the most he knows , that he knows he has this way to in size , that he knows will be absolutely , indisputably effective , which it was , by the way . It worked completely perfectly .

He only had to say one thing beard put all the puzzle pieces together and it worked famously , and it was highly , highly effective , which I would always go back and say . Decisiveness is the number four , because Ted had to sit home and think how am I going to get beard on board ? You know what ?

I bet you anything in my show , that fucker , that video and make him think about the places he's been . He'll go fuck , yes that is our corner .

And I think , in a way , if we've been doing , hey , give him a break . No , we're going to go throw fucking hatchets at a image of oh , I don't know about that right , and it's if I come to him with that same dynamic again of hey , coach , I don't really feel comfortable with us .

Regarding Nate , this way he's going to say what he's been saying the whole time . We've already set up that dynamic . So if I'm Ted and I'm not saying , it makes it right . But I was thinking through that piece . It's like , okay , how do I shake up this dynamic ? And it's by actually surprising you , by showing you a version of your side of this .

So a quick example , super quick example , and I definitely won't use names . It's ridiculous because we're all middle-aged and it was ridiculous from the start .

But there was a guy who I was having , who I know personally who tends to be conservative , and we were going back and forth about whatever Trump-ish thing we were going back and forth about and I don't know how we got here . But he said I would . He described me as a bully and then he said something in the direction of he would step in a ring .

If I ever wanted to step in a ring with him because he didn't know that I'd ever boxed , I guess Even if I didn't know I had ever boxed and I were him , I still wouldn't have said that but have you played much darts , ted ?

Exactly , it was very and I go to Daphne kind of fucking giddy and I'm like , hey , so-and-so just challenged me to get in the ring , I'm gonna fucking demolish him . And she was like Orlando , you cannot . And I was like what do you mean ? Like I didn't bring it up , he brought it up , I'm gonna fucking kill him . And she was like Orlando , she forbid me .

Like there's not a lot of forbidding .

But I'd add in and you know not , that the ends justify the means at all . But I will add in that in the biggest Jamie Tart moment that we just discussed , there is specifically a close-up that is the polar opposite of the look Sam had on his face when Jamie showed up . And it is oh my God , here comes Jamie , here comes Jamie .

I'm so excited , here comes Jamie . And I just yes , and I think when we're in the middle of the hurt , sometimes even the possibility of that moment can seem impossible . I'm not sure it should be forced on people , and I'm really giving that some thought .

Or , in the way you're saying it , I think Ted would argue he didn't force it on him because ultimately he really did leave it . He was like this is my , this is . I don't know if it was his last , but I think he was sort of like this is my salvo , this is , this is the big guns .

If this doesn't work , because Ted didn't say I'm calling Nate in the morning , blah , blah , blah , like he did Ultimately say you , you do , you do what you think is right . It was , it was manipulative , but he didn't make the decision for him .

I would argue that one is that Ted has not challenged beard on his treatment of Nate since beard started being an asshole , not in any real way . That when he said I'm gonna go throw acts , it acts as that Nate's face . Ted went hmm , okay . He didn't say like hey , we're in on shot in foreign zone . He didn't say that's not the way that we run this .

He said hmm . And then he asked beard what he wanted , and beard was very clear about it and Ted came back with this manipulative move . So I don't know if this was a final shake-up , sort of role reversal , as much as a continuation of I'm just gonna give you the look and if you don't pick up on it , I'm gonna give you the look real hard , like it .

Compare this to the pub scene in season one where Ted came in and said this is what I'm doing and then beard could say I'm not gonna have any part of that . We saw this dynamic before and Ted showed up and told beard exactly what's going on and beard told him right back . I think that's number one .

I think number two Again , not to time travel too much , but what we know about the relationship means that I don't think beard and Ted are actually on equal footing and that they have An equal friendship , an equal relationship where they could both be making these calls .

I think there's a significant power imbalance that is introduced in a little bit that when you go back and watch the scene again I'm like , oh fuck , ted , this makes you look like a Bad person and a shitty friend that you're doing it this way and I don't want to feel that way about Ted .

I don't want to feel that way about the show , but knowing what we know that comes later , it gives me serious pause , like it is a big goof on their part and About this scene or something coming up late , the whole dynamic , right , the whole dynamic , okay but what we learn later changes my interpretation of their dynamic .

Ah it makes this scene seem really uncomfortable for me , especially because this is a scripted television show . Of course it works out that beard is like oh , I get what you're saying , ted , all is forgiven and everything is good . They fucking wrote it that way like in real life .

This is not how you should be treating your friends , in my opinion , in real life , if somebody did this what , what , what , distillate , distillate down to what the no-no is .

Essentially , I find that Despicable . I know people in recovery and If you pulled this , if I were fucking Jane and I found out that Ted had pulled this shit on beard , you would not find the body . I would have ended him so Thoroughly and quickly he would . It would be like he never existed . I would for this part .

God . I talked about accounting too much . There's a an accounting idea of externalities , which is essentially where Somebody who is incurring the cost is not paying them . The easiest example is if a business Produces CO2 emissions , they're producing pollution . The pollution is damaging other people .

Other people are paying for it and the company is not taking responsibility for the cost that they are putting out to everyone sure , sure , sure yeah what's that called ?

The person talking wants something , doesn't want to be vulnerable , doesn't want to have to be Forthright or straightforward about what they are asking for , so instead they do it in this way where it's like , oh , you know , oh , no , it's fine , I could stay in the hostel with the sexy Australians ever , it's not a problem . Yeah , you are asking for something .

You . You should make yourself vulnerable in that case , and instead you're putting the vulnerability Onto the other person and making it their responsibility now now I have coined the phrase passive aggression is by definition aggression , I think yes .

Yeah , just I will say and this is something from my , you know Dei work and you know working in cultural competence and whatever that they're culturally , there are cultures , and I think there's probably subcultures within cova , where Overly direct communication Is viewed as um exceedingly aggressive , um , a version , a thing that I've heard people sort of joke about ,

that sort of maybe you know , impedimizes this and in the United States is like the , the bless your heart kind of like for me , oh , bless your little heart .

That oof , like even if you had just told me what it was you didn't like or what you thought I was doing wrong , or whatever I , for me , bless your heart is Is deeply offensive , like it just offends me um .

They regard it as you're smart enough to get my meaning without me having to come out and say hey man , you've made mistakes too . Let's give the guy a break .

So if that's the cultural aspects of I mean not fucking , not Chicago , but if that's , what you're doing right . But generally that's . I don't want to say that it is always across the board going to be a bad thing .

I'm saying that passive aggression is An easy thing for a lot of people to tap into and Counter to what we have seen in previous seasons of Ted , being a role model in terms of dealing with interpersonal conflict and your emotions .

What we saw in almost all of season one was Ted being kind and polite but direct and telling people what they needed to hear , even if he knew that it wasn't exactly what they wanted to hear . That he could say that to them in a way when he could thread the needle between being Direct without being aggressive , and that this is not that .

But this is not the model of how to be a new age , evolved man . This is , this is how you do passive aggression , and I don't think that that is helpful in teaching people how to Maintain their relationships . Okay , this for me is not gold standard behavior .

Like yeah , yeah , you're right . Like this is great that he said that he was this embarrassed about what he did and he was this and this is the way he left , and like I didn't . But I see which I . I hear you , but for me that's what it was pointing to .

You know like is it using Beards shot and Friday against him they had a rule of non shot and Friday Beard broke it nine shot in front of right . Is it that would ? say nine yeah yeah , nine shot , no shot in front of , and Beard Decided to traipse past that rule somehow , so it's like kind of using it against him . Okay , you want to see it ?

Here's the actual thing . Look how stupid he looks . Look how much he must have been suffering . What an ass Boy . I hope no one would judge me like that .

He never forgets a slight like , then he burns with it . He uses it as the charcoal to feel fuel all of his whatever right . But as he gets older he's like oh , that was a fucking waste of time . It's been effective for him . The way Roy Kent taking his Slites onto the field right was effective .

He was able to channel his rage into sock right with you , boss . Like you'll . You'll be like If we get in a fight which you and I do off air , all like , literally all All the time and the language .

I think , like that's , maybe that's different than other people , or maybe people see it , maybe I'm different , maybe people see it more the way you do . But what I'm just saying in general , you know You're , you're sort of harp it .

You're really able to focus tonally on On this , on the problem of this , without sort of saying , okay , I know you don't want to say in the end , justify the means , but that's , I guess . I guess .

I guess we really can't talk about this the way I want to until we get to the how he's using the past in this way , I guess , like we keep trying not to jump forward .

It's that I think , when they show that video of me being embarrassed , being ashamed , being , uh , powerfully , let's get real , like he was being a coward 100 that that is entirely based on patriarchy , but what they did here is a patriarchy that society is actually Obligated , in a lot of ways conditioned , to see a man who is not feeling well and feel like we

need to respond to that , and I think that that's what they're trying to show us there , because how he is ashamed , wait are you just coming up with this right now ?

Oh shit , here it comes , bongo , we are out of here like there's no reason even debate this anymore . And then your conclusion .

So even though Nate was abusive to will before the video , mean to Colin before the video and also went on TV to talk shit about Ted and the team After this video , this video alone , showing him being scared and embarrassed , should elicit enough sympathy in us as the audience and Beard as a character that he would be willing to forgive Nate because he wants to

solve that hurt inside Nate .

Because Nate is a man and to prove my point just a little bit further , hypothetically , if in season two the issue between keely and roi was not that roi was too clingy , but that roi was not around enough and keely had cheated on roi , not with jayme but with whoever else , they find out they break up and keely then goes on her instagram to talk about how

she is so , so happy that she is no longer with the old guy who likes moshi peas and now she's gonna go out and be hot and young and famous and roi decides to show a video to his best friend , jayme , of keely not being allowed into a nightclub because she's not hot or famous enough anymore .

If roi would then be like see , jayme , obviously I need to take her back . She was so , so sad about not being allowed in the nightclub . How don't you feel bad for her ? And the answer is fucking no . The answer is absolutely nobody would feel like that was enough justification For keely to get them back to roi .

We would not feel that , and that's because she's a woman , yeah patriarchy yeah .

I mean like you're so 100% that I'm sort of now going through All these things in my head that I've either seen or experienced and like , yeah , that's true , that is true , it's funny because it this was such a good argument , boss , that it almost feels like this quote-unquote .

. Uh , it's wild outside of just the video between Ted and Beard . I'm saying it might .

This is like when people say like poor little rich girl or something . It's the same thing you're saying like oh , poor , poor little wounded man who works for a fantasy I'm not a fanatic , I mean A premier league team and didn't get to quit it . He deserved . And now he's gonna crawl under a desk and You're like uh , why are we so conditioned to have any ?

You allied with the ex-husband of the woman who gave you a shot , who you , by the way , called shrew , and we should have known . Yes thank you for that . So , yes , so you make a , make a very good argument . Um , I , I prefer when , um , when , um , I'm uh , the , the smart one , you're right . Yeah , can we ? Can we try to like get back to Everyone's ?

What they are ultimately trying to do is find a place where they feel good , and unfortunately for a lot of people , feeling good means exerting power over others .

So when an abuser like Nate is doing abuses , you can say it is from a place where he feels Inadequate and small and not manly enough and not powerful enough , and so being powerful Against other people makes him feel strong and good about himself .

And so there's a lot to fucking break down with patriarchy and abuse and manipulation of people , because it doesn't come down to Nate saying I want to be a bad guy . It comes down to Nate saying people do not care about me enough , because he has been taught his entire life that men are important and special , in the center of things .

And we glossed over all of that mess in this scene , like why we feel sad for him , why he feels bad , why he is embarrassed . All is deeply related to this patriarchal issue and the show doesn't touch any why he's entitled .

Like that's the gig , but we do kind of go . Oh well , it's dad and it like .

Even you know , in my own assessment of it , even when I didn't , even when I didn't like the the , the way we were bringing Nate back , and I did , at my core , want Nate to be brought back , I did want that reconciliation and part of it was based on oh , but his dad was I don't like .

I don't know all Keely's background , but I know she watched her mom get , you know , left behind or whatever , and I never got the sense that she felt entitled to Rebecca's attention or friendship or any of it . Like she decided she'd like to have it and she invested herself in creating it , but she didn't sort of go like .

You never got the scene that was the flip of Rebecca trying to reach Keely and her being ignored because it would have meant a whole list of things that it doesn't mean in that direction , but we never had Keely go . How dare you not be available to talk to me about Roy ? Yeah , like what .

And when women experience that same thing , we say that she has daddy issues , oh wow . And we blame her for being fucked up because somebody else didn't take care of her oh wow .

The beat is what is the text there , boss , specifically been a while , hope you're OK . That's it . Yeah , been a while , hope you're OK . And which is , which is take some courage and take some .

I . What I really did appreciate about the episode in this , this moment specifically , is that Jamie not only had the moment on the field with Ted where he got to say this is what I would say to my dad and this is how I would say it , but they then had this huge moment where he overcame all of his fears .

His dad was not there to haunt him in the stands . He got his moment . He did everything else . His team has so fully accepted him that he is not just one of the stars , but also they all like go past him and say great job , we love this , we love and respect you . The strength of that is why he was able to reach out to his dad .

It wasn't about feeling obligated or feeling he needed to . He was in a good enough emotional position where he felt like I can do this in a way that is healthy and good for me . And that's when he does it and that I really appreciate it . It was not forced .

Like it was just like hope you're okay . Like I might say that to somebody I've met three times or seen three times you know what I mean . Like it was , it was caring , but it wasn't like all's forgiven and I wouldn't be who I am If it weren't . Yes , yeah , I like that .

It's a beautiful moment when you actually can rise above something and you have the emotional stability to then address it on your terms . Anytime that happens in your life , it's a victory and we shouldn't gloss past that . I think that's what boss was saying , which is great .

Now , all of a sudden , jamie is sitting there for a moment with his thoughts and in walks , keely , followed by Roy who has some champagne , and I go oh my God , like you think about this , this , just this dynamic . I think about the coffee moment , where it was so tense just with Keely being in the room that she couldn't even drink coffee .

And so Roy and Keely , walking into this room to cheer up Jamie , now has this completely different dynamic , like just this , this wholesomeness and openness , and like these two people that are walking in , have nothing but love for Jamie and he has nothing but love for both .

They want to be more than they want to be in this training room with Jamie and there's no , and so yes .

But or and the , the , the , the . The beauty of it is also Ted stopping . And now we're inside the room with Jamie , not outside the room with Ted . And now , rather than a cleat being thrown at you because you Right , it's yes , you have become such a wonderful teammate and human that we are here . We are here specifically to celebrate .

That is why we walked into this room .

You were inside the room with with with the kids , instead of outside the room with dad , right .

He hasn't poked his head in , he hasn't hit him with a hey , you three will right , like he just like cool , that's it , that's it right there . That's what I wanted to see and I will go on about my business .

I was like the boss says is basically , you know , like , because of me and and everything , if you love it , you generally have to say like oh yeah , that's that . Thank you , yeah , Coach cast .

I was very excited about this particular episode because it's fun to see boss looking at chops for so long and having that , that the sort of gamically , is hanging over your head . It's partially fallen , but I suspect that we're going to be completely . Oh , you're not here After that oh , we're not done . Oh , god damn man , we're not done .

Coach , where do people find you if they want to find you ?

But I will be because the writer strike is over and John Oliver was back last night writing at the antagonist blog , antagonist , which is antagonist blogcom Awesome .

This ended up being part 10 , which is a whole new record , but I think it's important and we want to finish strong and be thorough and be curious and not judgmental , and but it's going to be probably easier if we just , from now on , let boss do the talking and then we just we're just going to nod along and just dispel the patriarchy that way .

Thank you to everybody . Thanks to all of our listeners all around the world and our butter cups for supporting us , means the world to us , helps us make the show and make sure you support the , your local libraries and the written word . The actors in SAG and after are still on strike , so support them .

We don't want to I have a writer focus but I want to point out that they're still they're still striking actors and and it's an important job and needs to be respected and should and should get all the concessions in the same way , in this very brave new world that we're going into with AI and digital , you know like just basic stuff should be conceded , and

so we support them and until next time we are .