Ted Lasso | S3 Ep11 Part8 "Mom City"

Megan Rapinoe is amazing . I saw a clip of her four years ago doing a photo shoot and talking to an interviewer and he said are you excited to be invited to the White House or excited to go to the White House after the women's team won whatever they were going to be winning at the time ?

And she so casually and coolly responded not going to the fucking White House and then had to say , because of the occupant at the time , that they wouldn't be invited because she was an outspoken critic and also stood up for Black Lives Matter and kneeled with Cap and was an outspoken LGBTQ plus advocate and all kinds of wonderful shit .

And she's amazing and she retired and I don't think I have a shot with her , but I love her a lot .

She's just phenomenal . I love her so much .

I still I don't know if I'll be able to get through this part of the conversation without just balling , because she means so much to me , she means so much to my family , she means so much to every woman , every soccer fan on the planet , if you truly love the sport of football . She has changed it .

She has completely changed everything , and that's not where it stops . She was the first person to kneel in support of Colin Kaepernick . When he kneeled . She is a legend , and so I was so blown away because I posted how important she is , how great she is , what a champion she is . And then boss responded on Twitter like with a picture from the stands .

I'm like , what is happening ? I'm like , oh my God , did boss listen to ?

I was going to say there's a documentary I had to look up the name of it because for some reason I'm always forgetting titles but LFG is the doc about that whole fight for equal pay and , in addition to everything else we just described , just the way she led and stood on real principle and their conversations literally happening around the globe , because that team

said whoa , whoa , whoa , like what is happening here , we are kicking ass . The men , respectfully , are not . What are we discussing ? And that's huge . That's huge .

We just had this huge thing with the Spanish national team after they won the World Cup and there was this groping incident and just a nightmare , absolute nightmare , and they finally got after . We could go on forever talking the whole time about this , but in general , they're getting what they want .

Every single player of worth in Spain resigned and said we're not going to play for this Federation anymore until we get what we want , and they had a 21 hour meeting where all their demands were agreed to and then they came back to play . So that doesn't happen without Megan Rapinoe . I'm telling you right now it just doesn't .

When the US lost to Sweden in a tiebreaker at the last World Cup by a millimeter , like the closest goal you've ever seen the Swedish captain , kosovar Ezzlani , was interviewed and the guy , the reporter , was interviewing her after the match , after Sweden won and the United States was eliminated , kind of was throwing a little shade at the US , and Kosov said because

she's the best , she's also the best . She's like the Rapinoe of Sweden , she's their captain , she's a troublemaker , she's a disrupter , she's the best . And she was like basically like don't talk shit about the US national team .

And what she's alluding to is like these women pushed forward in a way that no one else could on this planet , and because of the way they pushed through , you have now people having referendums in Nigeria about the state of play . You have women's club teams all over the world saying how come the women's club team doesn't play on practice turf ?

That's as good as the men's club , things like that you have . These conversations are available to be had because of what the United States women's national team did in pushing forward , and they were led by Megan Rapinoe on all fronts , and so just , she is a legend the likes of which we probably will never see again . Oh no .

But over my shoulder is a picture of Muhammad Ali and they're just some athletes who , you know we use that word transcend , but no , but really truly transcend and understand it at the time , Like you can just see how they carry themselves . They're like no , no , no , it's much bigger and , yeah , like I .

One of the reasons I enjoy and I really do enjoy wearing that jersey and do and will is that I think it gives everybody permission to say hold on a fucking minute , Like we don't , like we're gonna do . You know what I mean .

Like there's right and there's wrong and we're gonna either do this right or I'm gonna be a problem , and either one of those is fine with me , but I'm not gonna .

I'm not gonna go visit the fucking White House , because that's supposed to be an honor , when I think that the president occupant is the worst , like truly the worst , Like not just we don't agree on politics like is a bad human who is doing bad things to other humans . I'm not gonna participate in this and it costs them . I think there's .

I think there's something to be said , for like being willing to also pay the price . I don't know them because that's not my circle , but I'm sure there are people out there who are like thank God she's retiring , so I don't have to see that face , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , and I'm sure her reaction would be great .

I don't give a fuck about , I don't give a fuck about anybody who feels that way , and to really mean that to her core and go on and do her thing . So anyway , there's all the respect , yeah .

I was happy Some people were pissed that they pulled her off , subbed her out , but you kind of want that moment where people can just she can . You know people can have that second to cheer . We're going to talk about a moment like that coming up in this episode .

But , yeah , she is a , she's a Titan , and and again , one of a kind , absolutely unique , one of a kind I don't even know it's , it's . I'm glad you coached said Muhammad Ali , because you talk about someone who changed the face of civilization . Like on this planet very few athletes get to that level . I can tell you some .

Tom Brady is the widely regarded as the greatest football player of all time . Right , he had no impact , like none , I mean come on , it's like you know what I mean . Like you can .

I mean , Kaepernick had more impact worldwide than Brady , so but you say , someone who had the impact on the field and off of it and with her team , you'll love it by her teammates the person who would come in and the new players coming into a terrifying situation , you know , making their first US training camp .

She would be the first one to put an arm around them and welcome them and be an ambassador and show them the ropes and make fun of them and you know , and just make them feel like part of the team .

It's , it's a huge legacy and , yeah , thank you both for for highlighting that before we start today , because it's a it's a big deal and we shouldn't gloss over it and it's also wonderful to mark good things instead of you know all the terrible things that sort of creep into daily life . We should take time to talk about people like Megan .

Right , I get you know , I think that beautiful game speech whatever we feel about whether that speech had been given by Rebecca or whatever , I think at the heart of the show there is that there is this sense that , like , because of all it means , this game is beautiful in its own way , in itself , and I'm just getting to know it .

So I I'm kind of that's a bit intellectual for me . The game itself , I don't have that relationship to it , but I get the overall feeling of that and I feel like that US women's team embodied that , like I can think of time , like I stopped my life or rearranged my life because I was like the match is going to be all like .

I know you're not asking me if I'm going to be at , I don't give a fuck , because I'm going to be watching the match and I will see you after that . And I didn't grow up , I did not grow up in a world where , generally speaking , certainly outside of the Olympics that was a thing for sports fans and I loved having it become a thing .

That was my favorite team in any sport and I've been fans of Bruins teams and Patriots teams and all the regional teams from where I come from . Then I always fall in love with , I'll fall in love with , any NFL team that has a coach I like and a good quarterback . I will start to sing that coach . I'll tell you .

I'll just be like a diehard for right now . As a lifelong New England Patriots fan , I came into this season loving the Miami Dolphins because I loved their coach and the quarterback . So , yeah , you talk about that one 2019 generational team and , yeah , it was beautiful . It was a beautiful moment in time and , god , it was so much fun to watch .

Watch that World Cup . All right , coach , all right . It is part of what we're talking about , so we'll just continue on . Where we left off . Last episode was Beard and Roy are on the sidelines . The Richmond team is playing a man down . They Van Damme is getting peppered . They know it can't last . They're just like , coach .

We got to make a decision and so Ted knows that's true . The training staff has tended to an injured Jamie on the sidelines and Ted goes and approaches him , says what are you looking for up there , jamie ? He's doing a lot of like looking back towards the stands . And what does he say in response ? Coach ?

Well , it was like the one where it's like I should have been there with my friend at the beginning that Jamie rolled his eyes . There's a few things where Ted goes into a thing and Jamie just goes Jesus Christ here at this again this is just roll rolls . Yeah , freddy Kruger is fucking terrifying .

Yeah , well , he had a rough childhood and , as we all know , hurt people , hurt people . It was a just do it with their knife hands , and so this is a really good job acting here . I just want to call out the tension .

If they do this scene wrong , this beat , this moment , if the crowd noise is wrong , if they take too long between entrances , between what they're saying , the air will come out of the scene , the tension will come out , the stakes will come out , and they do a beautiful job , ted . They sort of do the banter , which is the ice breaking stuff .

Ted then goes right into when's the last time you saw your dad and boss ? What does Jamie say ?

Ted , spurred by that moment , finally cracks open and is able to start the real healing process for himself , or however real , we're willing to say it is Boss , but you know what I mean . That's I think that my opinion is like this that is the only real ends .

So we watch a scene , we say , hey , but did you notice the picture in the back , or did you notice the posturing , or did you notice the lighting or did you notice the blocking ? Because we want people to sort of maybe notice everything . Just bring it in and start a conversation and see if it spurs anything .

But when you have a relationship like this , sometimes you already know the answer . I know in my relationship with Juliana . When she has to make a big decision , she's like one of those real organizers and planners and long lists , and I find most of the time once we start talking , she had already made the decision two weeks ago . We just have to .

The decision is made .

But once we talk it out and yeah , so you just need a facilitator , which Ted is doing , which Ted is doing for Jamie right here and he's like , okay , I'm going to talk this out and it helps , like you say , coach , that when you know each other well enough so that this is like it's part of the ethos , it's part of the nature of this .

So when he says Wembley , say no more , I got it Like , you know what I mean . We're all part of this , you know part of the same tribe , we all understand that . So if you could talk to him now , what would you say ? And Jamie says what boss ?

We sure got to a resolution lickety-split , like Jamie has a utter catharsis , like a complete rethinking of the entire , reframing of the entire relationship in about one , specifically two , nanoseconds . So the first moment is I'd say thank you and Jamie goes hi .

It's like sort of a little mini breakthrough there and like surprised , right , boss is nodding , coach is nodding , because they don't understand the medium .

How many times have we said when you're pissed off at someone , when you want to get revenge , it's taking up real estate in your head . It's not taking , they don't care , they're not thinking about you ever . They're just sitting there obsessing and you have this terrible sort of thing going on in your brain and nine times out of 10 , the other person doesn't .

But let's go through this and then I'll sort of highlight , but I just want to flag that I think that framing jams people up and is part of why then that whole back and forth around like no , I don't forgive them , comes into play and keeps us stuck on some of these issues and events .

And I think that that's very different from Jamie being in a relationship with his father , where his father was wildly abusive in a lot of different ways , and Jamie processing through the trauma of that I don't think that it staying mad at his dad was necessarily about him getting even with James Right .

This was more about sometimes you need that anger to fuel enough distance between you and the person who hurt you so that you could get enough perspective to get over it . Like , sometimes the anger is what pushes you through processing , through the trauma so that you get to the other side and you can feel okay .

So I don't want to undermine the value of that , or even the value that Rebecca must have had in some of her anger towards Rupert , because it can be extremely healthy and extremely good in terms of separating yourself from what was done so that you can move on from a better place .

So it's hard . Not everybody can do it . So it looks like at least in this case , jamie has been able to do it . He's been able to be . His resentment for his father has fueled his excellence and by and large , and so when he says just for given , jamie says what specifically here , coach ?

It's nice when you have like a you really know somebody , whatever , you talk it out and then you're like you know what you should do is break up with your wife or whatever , and they're like dude , what ? That's fucking great you know what I mean .

Okay , he's trying to shake it off . How do you feel ? Yeah , yeah , I feel good , coach . Yeah , like so Ted's yeah , say the talk helped , right . And Jamie says what , boss ?

But I also feel like it was the writers going guys this is getting awfully sacriant here potentially and so I appreciated them sort of like bringing us back to the reality of he hurt his ankle and there's no way that Ted's you know wisdom made that better .

I'm like , well , I'm also walking , so fuck off , what do you want from me ? I'm getting the answer says in , so I just feel like it's okay to acknowledge that there are multiple things that can help all at the same time .

But yes , it doesn't feel . Yeah , something about it can be can be very , very difficult to get through , so go .

But I think what we're , in my opinion , what would be for me healthier in terms of these kinds of thoughts , is to forgive the event , to forgive the trauma , and I'll try to find where I got this .

But somewhere I read that like kind of the etymology in terms of forgiveness is about debt , and so it's like letting , like basically wiping a debt , a debt off the books . And to me , just because I wipe a debt off the books doesn't mean I'm going to lend you more money yes , right .

Whereas forgive you kind of sounds like and hey , if you need another hundred grand , like no , not , if you need another hundred grand , I'm not giving you another fucking nickel , but I'm going to wipe this off the books and I'm going to continue what I'm doing and move on with my life .

And I think if we could frame it that way , some of what people mean by you forgive them to help you would resonate more or feel more like a straight line or logical .

When , at the end of the fiscal year , like you , reach a period where you say I am not carrying this with me forward any further , I'm going to just remove it from the books , you don't have to do anything with the person who owed it to you , it's just getting rid of , it's removing baggage . You're just cleaning it up and not moving forward .

It's usually physical , right . It's usually like I'm going to eat better , I'm going to do . It's like yeah , hey , guess what ? We talked about how I might have been last episode or the one before .

I've actually been doing a lot of thinking about this since we brought it up , because I thought we stumbled upon something that people don't really talk about , which is the mental side of sports and how all the rules are about the physical side of sports .

You just really don't even get the rules , and so I started thinking about that a lot more since we talked about it and I'm like , oh my .

And so when you're talking about this and people say self care , like one of the very last things people learn to do when they're on journeys like this is forgive themselves and say , hey , forgive or let themselves off the hook or allow that the moment was something that happened and isn't something that defines you forever . You know things like that .

All of these things are hard , hard learned skills .

I feel like there's a lot of . You know , jamie is mad that his dad hurt him because he feels , like you're saying , I deserved to be treated poorly . You're my dad and you're supposed to be nice to me and you think I should be treated like shit .

And then you feel a little bit angry , like , well , why would you think that I'm supposed to be treated like shit ? What is it about me that you think you get to take advantage of ?

And , believe me , I'm very familiar with that feeling , even up to the point where , with coworkers , I'm like , no , you're not going to treat me like shit because I don't deserve to be treated like shit . So I'm going to tell you not to treat me like shit and maybe I over jumped the gun at some of those totally willing to admit that .

But part of forgiving it is recognizing they did something uncalled for to me but that doesn't have anything to do with who I am as a person .

So it is in fact like forgiving that portion where you blamed yourself for what they might have done to you because you thought that meant you deserve to be treated like that , like there's a lot of little mini levels in there where you have to suss out how much you're angry at them and how much you are resentful of what they you think that means about .

So in as much as it was annoying to him that his father comes around and wants his Wembley tickets or whatever , it actually was as much as becoming friends with Roy Kent and having sex with Keely Jones or being in a relationship with Keely Jones . It was the manifestation of his dream , yeah .

I like what you I like calling that out and working on separating those , because , as you were describing it , I was thinking of a number of things in my life that have played that way . No really , yeah , it felt like you can't talk to me like that .

It had built into it and I need to prove that , or else apparently you can talk to me like that and I'm not shit and that's a lot to carry around , yeah , yeah , and that's .

And for me , you know , after we had one of our last conversations , I actually had to text you and say like not only is it that being nice to them wouldn't give me that feeling of like separation and being away from it , but that I am so obsessed right now with the hypothetical that I might have been nice to somebody who was mean to me that I am angry

right now . Yeah , as I was texting , I was like I am physically angry thinking about being nice to somebody who would be disrespectful , and so , again , obviously I know that I might go overboard with it , but the element for me is I'm going to stand up for myself .

I'm going to say you don't get to treat me like that and then expect , moving forward , that you treat me better , and so that's how I disengage from it . But also that is like sort of a skill that I've had to learn , that this is what makes me feel better and this is how I handle it , and then this is how I do it .

But one of them called the other one something it doesn't matter and I said all right , I'm going to call you a name , I'm going to say you're a frog . That is what I said to my nine-year-old You're a frog . And she's like okay , I'm like are you a frog ? She's like no , I'm like do you know that you're not a frog ? Yeah , so am I right ?

No , I'm like I don't .

And so when someone is disrespectful to me that is my default MO I go . They're like blah , blah , blah . They treat me whatever I go . Oh God , like what a tool this person is . Obviously they're not like . I want nothing to do with them . They're dead wrong . I don't need to go any further . They've shown me who they are . I'm good .

But something about you and coach would be like no , no , you're going to learn Like , we're going to stop this right now and I'm going to let you know . But I'm like for me , I'm like , why would you have to let them know ? They're already , they've already shown you their true Like . You know what I mean .

So for me it's like , I guess , like I'm avoiding the hassle of it because I don't think they're worthy of the . I'm not saying like people aren't worthy , Everybody does . I told you how , if I had a coworker that would do that , I would try to first joke around with them and try to try to come across .

You know , get back into the boat and lean in and see if , whatever . But I've also had coworkers that are just God awful and you're like , okay , yeah , yeah , I know who you are . Like we're going to go through HR or whatever . So I totally get both ways . I feel like sometimes it's just like , is this worth my time ?

Like , okay , fine , call me whatever you want . I know you're wrong , I'm not what you just said . You know what I mean .

That you have a default position of feeling like society treats you with a certain amount of respect and would assume that you are not , so that's my privilege .

Like where are you coming from in terms of race privilege , gender privilege , sex privilege , socioeconomic privilege ? Like I think that there's a lot that is built into how we determine , how we react to things that is sometimes outside of our control .

myself , but getting cut off in traffic or something like that , right , no , really really , because I really would if I'm real , my my sort of base , no work having been done , reaction is oh , you think you're going to fuck and cut me off , Like as if they've like Orlando Bishop oh yeah , he's fucking not shit , who cares , I'm going to cut him off Like they

don't . Like they probably didn't even notice my car . One and two , they would have cut her off whoever was there .

But I would take it so personally and one of the ways I actually , this weekend we went on a long drive and so I pulled a stunt and I really , and I didn't have a reaction , but I just didn't , and I mentioned it to Daphne and was like , oh wow , like that's the work , Like , because I went through the phase where it was like reaction , okay , breathe , let

it go . And now I was like all right , whatever , like I don't know what you're right , I don't know what's going on with you . Maybe you think you're going to save whatever . And it was an interesting

piece . I'll say , though , the word worthy's come up a couple of times here and I think , yes , the privilege element , I think is very real in this conversation .

But worthiness and all the you know Brené Brown talks in the world worthiness , I think , plays in a lot and I think part of what happened here is yes , there are these two moments here , but there's also a trip to see mom and there's also having made the extra pass and feeling like crap after getting yelled at by your father and having beard .

Bring you the note from Ted that says way to make the extra pass . Like he just shattered Ted's situation like unbelievably , and instead of going , ah , that fuck , he's like that's right , Jamie , I see you becoming who you're supposed to be . Good job , he's had all this reinforcement of who he is and his worthiness that allowed this moment to happen .

So I think , yes , there are these two beats here , but I would say that all this stuff we've seen with him brought us to a moment where he could hear this and process it in real time and be able to get back out there as the real Jamie Tarkin .

Rich , straight white guy from a rich background who when he is driving and people do something that pisses him off , will say out loud , even when he's in the car by himself he has told me we'll say I'll kill us all . Wow , and that's the way he rages out .

All of these many , many , many micro interactions leading up to this moment , but these are the key moments that end up being like the final tumblers before the lock opens , because there is a quantum change here . He goes into the game , he's getting roughed up , he's being a baby about it . He's not really . His head is in the right place and then we get .

I can't even explain what this one scene does to me . When he finally shakes it off , he starts walking back . We got a shot from behind . Jamie crosses in front of Ted and now we have the single of him walking back to go back into the game .

He's shaking off his right hand , right , the crowd starts jeering at him and he's like he notices the jeering or whatever , and then , like a second later , he takes it in . And what does he do , coach ?

I was like , yeah , that's an actress , but I thought it was really important that Keely saw it . Keely from the , the orders box was like hold on God , jamie's back and I thought that was so significant that you know . But yeah , he , he's , he's , he's totally like , oh , I love it , like I drink your tears . Come , let's go .

That's the guy that fires people up , he , he starts out , he hears the thing , he has a moment of recognition that like people are jeering at him , and then he makes a face , the face like whatever , like purses his lips , like give me a break , but he's , but he's like sort of tickled about it , it's like comical to him . And then he turns to the crowd .

He turns to the crowd , he pats the shield on his , on his , on his shirt , he pets the Richmond shield , closes one eye and sticks his tongue out and then goes like this like come on , bring it , bring your whatever . Then he runs on the field as they're jeering even more and he puts his hands to his ears Like what ? And this is , I can't hear you .

Yeah , and , and this is where Keely it was so good , because Keely was talking about the Vox popular . You know , keely is just like holy shit , like , come on , she recognized it . You know , right , here we go , here we fucking go .

So I've walked around for most of my life until the last couple of years and a lot of people who know me would be surprised to hear this . I think I've walked around . My inner experience is of a skinny kid who needs to make sure people know they can't push him around .

And I saw a picture of myself at like age 19 or 20 , and I was like , oh my God , like I was way bigger , like I'm , like I was there . It was like there were no fucking mirrors . I could see myself , but I was like I wouldn't go out of my way to mess with that guy . But inside of me I was always making sure people knew not to fuck with me .

And I think for Jamie , when he first comes out on the field , the jeering matches what's in him or what he's experiencing . But now that it doesn't , it's more like what you described . It's them yelling you're a frog , you're a frog , and he's like what happened ?

It's not just like I'm gonna hammer you with a leg tackle . It's like I have to divorce your self-image from what it actually is , and that's far harder to do when you know who the fuck you are . So okay , jamie goes out . This is . I get chills . I love this so much . I love seeing Healy get fired up . I love seeing Jamie jog on to the field .

Sam Bubbercatch , they're watching him . Come on . Jamie's like egging the crowd on . It's so funny . His mom recognizes it too , and she's like clapping like crazy in her living room . That's it , baby . You fucking show him , because we know what this is . We know what can happen if this Jamie Tart takes the field . Everybody who follows Jamie .

It's that we just gave a note to Megan Rapinoe and I'm telling you there were times when we were watching the game where you go , pinoe , at the top of her game was an absolute assassin . You almost like it's so hard to remember a player that clutch in any sport where you're like .

You remember the moment with Jamie Tart where Roy's like that fucker's gonna hit it from here .

page . It's parallel thinking , coach , because that is what Pinoe used to do . You're just like she's gonna fucking bury this , isn't she ? This kick is gonna go into the top in an impossible direct kick .

She's gonna somehow put this in the court and then she would and you're like , oh my gosh , or you'd say that , and then she would mix it up and put it on someone's head at the exact perfect speed , at the exact perfect height , and someone would score . And you just go these players are so phenomenal . But you start talking about what's the term coach ?

A range of outcomes , like once when Mopey Jamie , who apologizes to kids on the field , especially the kids , you go , what are the range of outcomes here ? Cause it's natural talent , yes , but that mental edge is sort of flaccid , right .

And then once you see this boy come back out and he's got that attitude , you go , holy shit , like what might actually happen right now with a cocky Jamie Tart back on the field .

You just use the word flaccid and we had a whole conversation about the conversation with mom and I think , as base as it could seem , and as I think there is something that is as simple as that , like about like who he's being in a moment , and I've heard , like people are insulting some guy or whatever , like I've heard people say , oh , he couldn't even get

it up or something like that , and not to get into the medical stuff or whatever . All of that aside , it's a way we discuss or try to find a way to capture that thing , right , even if you watch the end of the 40 year old virgin , right , like he is now fully realized . We have to go into a musical sequence to express that .

So I think I do think there's something about his power that is captured here and that sort of like , just that personal power , like what it actually can do for you . Yeah , I don't wanna say too much , cause there's something of this , some stuff in the scene , that is just like unbelievable .

Like there should be something . What ? Why the fuck don't we get a word ? Oh my God , why the fuck don't we get a word ? It emasculated means like to take something from , to take a rightful thing from somebody and rob them of it , and we don't have that word for women .

Like , apparently , whoever created language feels like women shouldn't have any pride in their gender and their sex .

It was the first time somebody pointed out to me that the Malcolm X lesson around you know how come all the bad things are black , all good things are white , and at first it sounds like a game . But then you like really start going through language and you're like whoa , whoa whoa whoa , whoa .

Darker coffee is better because that is how you get through the day , and darker liquor is better because that is what you do at the end of the day . And all of these things are not gonna be better if they were white . Not a single fucking word .

When we see this happening , it is so exciting Jamie Jogs on the field , sam and Barbara Catcher losing their minds , everybody in the Crown and Anchors jumping up around around saying Jamie Tartt , we get a one more sort of final . I wouldn't say it's a very good shot , but it's a try .

It's on frame so it could have gone in had it not been saved by Van Dam Once again , he's incredibly solid . And then we get sort of a ball from the defender up to Jamie Tartt and time changes here and Boss and Coach are both nodding . We slow way down , we bring the camera angle sort of down to ball level and we see a quick shot of the stands .

We move up to Rebecca , kind of going oh my God , in the stands , or she says ooh , and Kagan says what's happening and she forcefully grabs his chin and turns , turns his head so he could see he's like thank you , without moving .

Man , like to take that all of the momentum of a ball and catch it on the top of your foot with enough momentum to keep it still going forward , but also take enough momentum away that it doesn't slam off the top of your foot . You have to like give with it . It's beautiful . The first defender that goes after Jamie . He basically megs him , cuts behind him .

We get a shot that Coach can you share what megs mean ?

And so this moment where we cut to Jamie , we pivot , sometimes we're on his feet as he goes by people Sometimes it's a medium shot , that's just sort of knees to head , where we don't see the ball , so they can give themselves options in the editing room , which is a very clever way to do it .

Then there's this thing where he sort of hops , where he's like hobbled on his weak leg . We get the set . It looked like a pass to me , but the sound of we get the sound of a ball hitting twine and everybody goes fucking crazy , which means he scored on that .

Now I will say it's funny because with every fiber of my being , this is what I needed to happen in this moment . I needed Jamie to come in and be the hero , but also , just from a , from a , from a protossorial standpoint , I'm like you gotta , maybe you gotta show that goal . Like I cannot believe .

I cannot believe that there's no footage where they can show what happened . And I'm like they had another thing planned and they had to edit around it and they're like , okay , we'll just put a sound effect in , like he's like , cause he did that may that may very well be and I'm pretty sure at some point I've talked about that .

Yeah , yeah , you know what I mean . So sometimes it's just like you know what I mean , Like we can you know ? My God , this is so brilliant and it might have been what you said , I will say in terms of its impact .

There are certain bear naked ladies songs where I hear it and I'll just like instantly be transported back to those moments in time with those absolutely brain dead Canadians who are some of my favorite people and yeah so . But , coach , yeah , there's a , there's a Curacao reference in one of their . I think it was probably one of their more well-known hits .

And part of why is the whole thing like , truly the whole thing has been Jamie with the me , me , me and all this crap , right . And then it was Jamie and the season one look at him making the extra pass . And then even this season , it was don't play to me , play through me .

Like , oh , look at Jamie , now he's a distributor , but this moment is which Ted called by the which Ted .

This is what does the team need from me right now . What the team needs from me right now is to be Jamie fucking Tart , the transcendent guy who can be angry because in a pair of jeans , I missed a post from however many feet or meters when I was going back and forth with Danny Rojas .

I am so good that the idea that I might miss the post one out of five times is a little bit infuriating to me . To be that guy who can score from anywhere and to know this is the moment where it's time for me to do that . And I think he would have passed if passing had been the right thing to do .

I don't think he walked out on the field and said , fuck , give me the ball and everybody standing to the side , god no . And I bet he would have had a harder time getting there if he'd been playing like that . But he's been doing the right things . He's been getting the ball to bummer , catch to Colin . He's been doing all of that .

So they don't assume his opponents don't assume he's gonna do what he just did actually , whereas a couple of seasons ago it was like , well , just shut them down . For me , a lot of this plays like basketball and there's nothing like playing against a chucker because you just know like , oh shoot , he ain't gonna pass , he ain't gonna pass . That's one thing .

We can just strike off the list of shit that might happen . But when you have somebody who really might pass the fucking ball like now , you gotta play you really have to play them . And I thought that it was , in a fascinating way , showing how it's not just what you do , it's how you do it .

It's not just what you do , it's who you're being as you do it . And I think that they could be singing the Jamie Tart song at Crown and Anchor , all the things that seem like the same . Jamie took the ball and showed that he was the most talented person on the pitch and scored . Okay , we've seen that . We've seen that the entire series .

But what it is here is 180 degrees from what it was . I think it's really I don't know . For me it's beautiful . I thought we had seen the full Jamie arc , but the more I've watched now , the more I'm like oh no , no , no , we weren't done . This is the full realization of Jamie Tart .

So I'm trying to reframe a lot of the show , as this is not the ending . This is them showing us the moving past , a point where they can continue on the string . So , like Jamie has learned a bunch of things . He's gotten significantly better . He's grown as a person .

He still has probably the best of his career yet to come , still , so we don't wanna think that this is like this is not Megan Rapinoe . He is not leaving right now for good . This is a season where he's going to keep continuing to do these things and become better as he gets a little bit older , Cause he still

what ? Like 24? .

We've seen him be the one who's got a personal message for every person . Well , actually , he's gonna come . So we haven't seen that yet . I almost time travel . But we have seen him engage his teammates , be that guy , be one of the people they're fixing the restaurant after the racist came in . I think he could end up as Pep .

We've seen him stand at the board and explain Like you guys aren't getting how this works , you gotta play . He didn't just say that , it was just theoretical , he went to the board and showed them this is what we're doing .

Yeah , I wonder if we're seeing the origin story of a brilliant coach who will know how to motivate , because he's not gonna throw a cleat at your head , because he played for Ted Lasso and he worked with Roy Kent and he gets it .

And then Arlo says the coach says you know , I love this , this is my whole thing , right . And then a class move from the native Mancunian not to celebrate against his former club .

This guy didn't have a category where he wasn't F minus , if that's even a thing .

You see the crown and anchor . They're all clapping . But it's this reverent thing . And listen to their response from the city support . I might not be able to get through this . I'm so emotional about it .

He's hurt , he's leaving , he can't do anything anymore or he doesn't get the chanting , he just does like it . I noticed that it wasn't just like jealousy or fuck this guy , it was just sort of like what's happening yeah , oh god you're talking about Jamie , so I want to be clear what you're sorry .

right . Yeah , yeah , you took Roy 40 years or 30 years to get there but here Jamie gets it so early that , like the only time we've ever seen this type of ovation , other than when Zava walks out for the very first time- but see , I think that's different , that's that's , that's screaming at a concert .

Like that's like yesterday , and you know we're placing this in time , so we're recording this in 2023 , during the NFL season , and it seems I mean more than seemed it seems pretty obvious at this point , because they're well aware of media , that Travis Kelsey , who is one of the biggest names in American football , is dating Taylor Swift , and so Taylor Swift showed

up at the game and was in the owner's box sitting next to Travis Kelsey's mom , and so everybody or in some box , I mean might have not been the owners , but anyway sitting next to and everyone's commenting on the fact that Taylor Swift is there . It made me a little nauseous , not because I don't like her or that they're together .

I think that's wonderful and I actually really do wish those crazy kids the best . I just thought like this is obnoxious , like this is like all this commentary on .

It's not as if you can just , like you know , go to some dating site , like if your Taylor Swift , like how do you find a right somebody ?

And Travis Kelsey's just strikes me as , yes , an amazing athlete , but like he's funny and obviously smart , and if I , you know , if he put it this way , and if he were gonna date my sister , I'd be like great , which I would not say about any number of NFL players , and so all great .

But I thought like there , that's that brand of like , oh my god , it's so and so is different than the artist . Like if you see Stevie one . For me , if I saw Stevie Wonder , like it'd be almost like seeing a religious figure , very big , oh wow , like you're amazing , you have advanced the culture , like that .

I met Muhammad Ali and I almost cried like I , literally in front of him . I was kind of like gathering myself because I was like , oh my god , like it really was like seeing some figure from the Bible , like if Joseph just came walking out in this fucking technical dream code , you're like what the fuck ? But it was like that level of like holy shit .

And he , you know , he touched my hair and he goes that Joe's , he's joke , like teasing me , and I was like yes , sir , that's all my hair .

And he did whatever and he shook my hand and I , I was so excited I called my dad in Panama from my cell phone on the drive home because I was just like I may like explode and my father's like what and you know he was just my dad were crazy .

But so to me , it's the difference between meeting whatever flashy guys come along and is all the rage right now and meeting Muhammad Ali , the difference between everybody singing Jamie Tartt into season one and what's going on here and he gets it now and he can be it and he could hear it . That was one of the things I loved about this too , is he ?

He heard it and I think he taps his like his heart even .

like I would be wildly impressed , but it wouldn't be personal to me because I wasn't that kind of a fan of his . So I feel like there is a difference . Zava , the character , sort of represented the idea of celebrities in a way that a lot of people think of Taylor Swift as a celebrity .

If you love the absolute shit out of bad blood , I will meet you there and I understand it and I get it . And if she's important , we are not talking about her in this way . She is a celebrity to a lot of people . That's , zava is in the same way .

Like , oh , you're gonna fuck with my music , okay , get you know what I'll do . I'll just rerecord it to go fuck yourself . I'm like good for you . I don't even know the details of that , but you know what good for you . Yeah , so yeah , no , no shade toward Taylor Swift whatsoever .

It was toward the media and everyone making you know , making asses of themselves yeah , it's a big deal .

Yes , did you hear what he said ?

I get everything you're saying , but when you there is a level of sport where you get to see what someone is made of in a real way I don't mean that in a mantra , I mean like what you just get to see what they're made of I'm gonna share a story real quick that brought me to tears .

I , I , I shared , I think at one point that I have a kid who played for me and he captain of this football team and I'll , at some other point I'll share a whole story because I had him play a specific position in our defense where I just need somebody who's smart .

I actually don't need you to be particularly athletic , what I need you to do is be smart and and do the right things always .

And so I play that kid there and I and I'd given him all this encouragement that like , no , you're not the fastest , get out here in your order , but you have a ton of things that most human beings don't and if you use that to take care of the rest , wait and see what happens . And so he's now captain of this football team . So I go to see him play .

And I didn't realize another one of my former players was also on the football team because he was more of a basketball guy , so I figured he went . I thought he went down that path . Anyway , I go to this game and these two the first kid , named Lucas Lucas , run the slant , scores a team's first touchdown .

I'm there as his family's guests , so like dad and I are like jumping up , hugging each other , going crazy . I'm losing my shit , like I was already kind of emotional at the coin toss , watching him walk out so for him to score this first touchdown . I'm losing my shit .

Second touchdown quarterback drops back , drops a dime to my of the player on this team , so he scores the second touchdown , at which point I am screaming like an absolute lunatic . I'm surprised they didn't call security . I'm just like fucking losing I am . I'm just beside myself right and after the game . So we go down . I took a picture with them .

I shared on social media . But I go down and I'm just , I keep hugging them , like I realized after , oh my god , I hugged each one of them like three fucking times , but like I was so happy and what I texted them later and what I shared was yes , I was so proud to watch you score these touchdowns , but I was more proud to watch how you play .

I was and I said it when I wrote about them I was like I watched when it was pretty clear to me that the ball wasn't coming to your side and you ran your pattern full speed .

I watched even though you're making all these plays as a tight end and everybody's talking about how great a season you're having and your scoring big , long touchdowns and whatever I watched how dedicated you were to blocking that linebacker on a running play where you're gonna get exactly zero glory . That's what I watched , you know , and you both did it .

That's who I worked with you to be . That's why I taught you to be . I'm so proud of you guys and I couldn't go to this game last weekend but they they won a big game in their league and the second kid I was telling you about whose name is Alex .

He apparently he had an amazing game , like somebody rattled off all the stuff that he did , and I was like , so I just texted them . I say , hey man , I heard a rumor that number one fell , so gunned up putting that work on Friday night , right . So he taxed me back . Thanks , coach . That means a lot .

And I just wrote , I just put a heart on that and I was like I am so proud of you , I am so proud of you , but it wasn't . Oh , you score touchdown . I am so proud of you because I'm watching that . This is that second kid is a kid .

Oh my god . I used to be on his back constantly because I was like you don't understand what you can be , and he'd be like the last one to practice and I was always on them . Don't be last . Why you always last getting out on my field , did I tell you do not make me right like it was always . I was on him , on him , on him .

And when he was a little kid he wrote me thanks for coaching me hard . I remember that as a child , but he was maybe he had stuck in the middle school , rather , he was thanks for coaching me hard and I'm watching him now going wow , wow , you are exactly what it's about .

So when I look at Jamie here , I think I I guess part of me is with Ted and thinking we're talking about the guy who is making jerk-off motions behind me as I walked out the room . We're talking about the guy who pretended he had a hurt hamstring because he didn't like that . He was taken out of a game , like all this shit .

And now look at this he goes out there on one bad wheel , makes the exact play we need made and no more pointing to the back of his jersey . None of that . Everyone else is celebrating him and all he's thinking is come on , richmond , we got this . Like , oh my god , this is it , this is what it is .

And like people who can capture this and it's not only in sports , but if you can capture that and be that where it matters whether it's in your family , whether it's in at your school , whether it's in whatever , if you can be that man , to me that's , that's , that's all it's about .

Like , I'm telling you , I could probably take you through every religious text and whoever's at the center of that religious story is being this wow , that was absolutely beautiful .

It is so direct , directed to get the best out of other people , is what you're all about , coach , and I know everyone can feel it and can hear it , and you know that's a big part of it is that you did coach these boys hard and you could see a path for them to get to a certain place .

And the thing is sometimes , when you , when you , when you have a say or you have a role in the modeling of a young mind , in the modeling of someone you know teach a lot of teachers have this relationship librarians , like people who interact with people in formative years you go I , you know you can squint and kind of go oh man , I could see this person .

The best case scenario this kid's a comrade , this kid's , like you know , this girl could be , be something , specialist boy , could be something , whatever .

And when they achieve that , when you actually have the chance to see that , it just feels like almost like in a world where we've all become so jaded and tired and exhausted , you're like really this still they still allow this , like they allow these kids to become their best self .

And why it happens on the sporting field doesn't matter the sport , doesn't matter the gender or the players , it just it's because you can see it revealed in these moments where there's you know it's an artificial moment , but there's all of the things that play into life , there's the stress , there's the pressure , that and you have to look at the character and you

have to look at the sacrifice , and all of these elements are why it's so much more common on an athletic pitch , then , let's say , a laboratory . You know we just don't have right people , a lot of people watching scientists do the extra . You know I have to do 300 assays or whatever today and 300 more tomorrow .

You know you don't see that hard work it's put in , so they don't get the same credit , but it's , it's these beautiful moments . And they say you know characters , who you are when nobody's , nobody's watching . So these people sort of get to this point .

And we saw Jamie be the polar opposite of this , and so when you watch his mom react , I can yeah , no , it's amazing , it's amazing . Simon reacts , then you cut , you cut up to the stands yeah yeah , oh wait , wait , before that . You get the . You get the the begrudging . Yes , who was ?

Who was starting the chirping at Jamie begrudgingly be like starting the , the clapping for him . You should oh my god , this is like it's unbelievable somebody that can sort of localize that sort of response and then go ahead , coach you to

say something .

I was on a run yesterday and I tweaked my ankle and I was like this run is officially motherfucking over you .

I mean like that shit hurts and I like there's a respect to it and how you conduct themselves and coming back out there and standing up to all that jeering , that that is why that guy , that guy , cannot ever again say he can say whatever he wants , he can cheer against him next time , but he cannot say you soft prick he can never say that again .

Never said it to him again ever and wouldn't I mean just wouldn't , like that's not the deal anymore and and point of fact , we then cut to .

When they said that . I was kind of hoping like , okay , well , he didn't make it and that sucks , that's what I thought . That is , unfortunately , extremely true to life . What I was expecting was his addiction had gotten the better of him .

Let us have nice things . That's not where you're coming from , and hasn't been . So I actually . So , yes , I'm freeing you of your worry that you're ruining it . I really appreciate it actually . No , really .

But it's also probably not this . It's not the version of this show . They I'm guessing what they wanted to make .

Seen season one , I feel like that would have fit , like they were relegated and Jamie made the extra pass , but also it was heartbreaking , and so I feel like they pulled fewer punches in season one and that's what I was hoping for , I think .

Also I have routinely had issues with the way that the writers introduce very serious , often dark , painful situations and then try to brush them off and not brush them off but maybe resolve them in a way that feels overly simplistic to me , and part of that is that 60-ish year old men you know , like whatever James Hart is at 50s , 60s he seems a little bit

older , but also Jamie's 24 . So who knows exactly how old he is ? When you have been abusive and abusing substances for as long as James Hart probably would have , rehab is going to be exceedingly unaffective , like that is the nature of substance abuse , of addiction , and I'm going to get into this a lot later when we have another thing that comes up .

But part of my issue with framing it as , oh , you go to rehab and then you're better , is when you have people in your life who go to rehab and they come back and they're not better . You're like , well , what the fuck you did the thing ? Why did it not work ? This is more akin to you had cancer , we gave you chemo and radiation and it went away .

Why is it bad ? You wouldn't be pissed . You wouldn't be pissed at the person for getting sick again . You would understand and so the fact is , rehab doesn't work that often .

It doesn't mean you shouldn't try and it doesn't mean you shouldn't go , and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't support people doing it , but it does mean that we should be realistic about how effective it is to overcome substance abuse issues that would be as significant as they would be for us .

So I wonder , and I don't know when this decision was made , but what would it have been like ? Well , I guess you take away the . He always makes the choice that Dick would make . Kind of part , I think , if you're going to give us this as a if not a resolution , a moment of hope , what happens if mom shares that ?

He always told me he was going to be better . He's better for a month and then back to the bullshit , just to give us a sense . And so then there's hope that well , maybe this time , but it doesn't come across as a magic bullet kind of a deal .

And her actual boundary so that she is not hurt by James Tartt is she says he is never going to get better and that way , when he doesn't get better , she hasn't put herself out there , she hasn't risked herself , she hasn't allowed him to inflict damage on her because she knows he's never going to get better , and so I completely understand and sympathize where

she's coming from . There are times where , as much as you want to , you cannot trust that the person is going to get better . You cannot be .

And she asked this woman I know , if that woman would , my friend would co-sign on a lease with her 12 months lease for an apartment . We're talking somewhere between 16,000 and $24,000 .

And my friend asked me for my advice and I said if you feel comfortable parting with six $12,000 , if you have a certain amount of money that you could give to her or pay the rent for her so that she has a place to stay for six months , or however , and you know that your finances will allow that , you could do that .

But if you sign , if you co-sign on the lease , she is going to get evicted and that will impact your credit and it will be bad for you and they will come after you for the money , like it is dangerous to you to do this favor for her . You can't , you can't do it Like you just can't . And so I think that that might seem selfish .

It might seem like , well , why wouldn't you help her ? She's your niece , you have to , but you can't because it will injure you and you need to stay protected in order to help yourself and other people later .

Like not range of outcomes right Range of outcomes Nese Yup Yup , Inspired by this act of generosity , hustles and works and mates it to 12 months and pays the rent and , oh my God , what a story . Can't wait to toast this at Christmas . It's going to be fantastic , Great .

And the range of outcomes is you now have rent to pay and to go into the situation pretending as if that's not so is actually irresponsible . It's as irresponsible as whatever is going to come next , and I like

that . You're the phrase that came to me when you were talking that through , and I sometimes fail in this way is you're incredibly clear-eyed , Like I know we tease as if it's always your like . We tease at your , you know , cynical , whatever , blah , blah , and I know you and I know my .

I don't know you're going to hurt my feelings before then this episode . So I've accepted that part , but no , but . But . But to be clear-eyed and be like look , here's reality . I'm really glad you're going to rehab Sometimes works , sometimes doesn't . Here's some things we can do to like whatever you know , hopefully make it work better .

I'm happy to , like you know , lock you in a room in my house and bring you food periodically if that's what you need to do for a few days , to not fuck up and like that's reality . And I , and , and I think it's more helpful to people than the , the , the wish casting kind of version of it all .

two things are two different things , and if you don't understand the difference between those two things , I need you to go do more research before you start writing about them , because it's they're connected but different . If you are not .

Um , sorry , I'm going to go back to Brockmeyer again , but on Brockmeyer , carrie Preston , who has been on True Blood and the Good Fight and the Good Wife and is supposed to be getting her own show , but she plays this character over a few episodes that is supposed to be challenging Brockmeyer almost in a race to rock bottom , like as bad as they could get ,

and one of the things that she says to him as at one point is uh , you were just a tourist getting off on my misery , getting your kicks on my misery . And there is an element of that where , like as somebody who has known a lot of people that have struggled with substance abuse and mental health issues and everything else .

If you are here to like bank on the name of dealing with substance abuse and not actually understanding the underlying issues with it , I don't want you to do it Like you're not allowed to use these things from my life and other people's lives in order to make your story seem deeper .

If you are not going to do it justice , so either get there and fucking understand it or pick something else , because it's not fair to show somebody in rehab and pretend that now the relationship is fine , now that the chemical dependency , the substance abuse , the mental health issues that were underlying both of those things who knows if he has a place to live

or a job or anything else , like he is in for some fucking therapy for a while , and if you're not going to present that as the full story , then please don't give us this .

But seriously , everyone I've known who's maintained their sobriety is how I describe it has made it clear to me in any real discussion about it that it is truly an ever present job or pursuit . It's not like , thank God , I made it five years .

Because actually I would say , I know it right , even I would say , because the cancer , the cancer analogy , I think is great , because I do think people treat mental illness and , and I guess physical , but that could be physical too . But anyway , you know what I mean .

The fact that there was a point at which , at five years , daphne's been going to these wellness checkups I think I've shared you know , the sports fan and me I guess sneaks into that because I forgot on the first one to ask her how it went right , when we saw each other and it had gone fine .

So now she knows I'm not going to ask and she needs to come tell me that it's all okay , because I'm not going to fuck that up , because clearly that's how cancer works . But we got to five years and it was like okay , like sure anyone can get cancer , but like your odds are not , like you know .

But I think we don't , we don't respect just how much like for that addict , for that alcoholic I'm not . I mean , yes , over time they're going to have more tools , but there's not that five year mark , Like I know people who've been at it for years and years and years and then you know they've shared with me that like oh yeah , like there was a beer .

You know , I had beer in my fridge because so-and-so comes by and whatever , and I had to throw that shit out . I had to go throw it in the fucking dumpster . Oh shit really .

Because in season two , sweet D and Dennis decide that they are going to get on unemployment and then get on welfare because they're rich white kids from suburbs and they don't understand about how difficult either one of those things are .

And in order to get on welfare , they believe that they need to do a little bit of crack to become addicted just a little bit . So they become full blown addicts very quickly because they're already mentally pretty fucked up and the chemical response to that happens very , very quickly , and so then of course that's like one episode .

And Dennis says I want to do some crack . Like a full five years later , the first thing he thinks is well , I would like to do some crack , please , If we're doing anything we want to . I fucking want to do crack . That's what I want .

I've known people in my personal life who have stopped smoking , not smoked in 10 , 12 years , and they have a couple of drinks and they're like I would like one of your cigarettes , please , if you could like that's . I think that that is . You know , it's always there .

You might be able to push it back , but it's always going to be there and I need a TV show to say like we understand that .

I just don't have a lot of experience with addiction , on that , on that level , so I don't want to , I don't want to comment about it . I know that in the same way . Okay , in the interest . Here's the see , this is all excellent , excellent stuff , and I'm happy you brought it up .

We have to keep in mind , like I'll give you an example they have certain limitations about what they can and can't address and as much as they would want to , I'm sure , do a little bit of a deeper dive on it . Like for , okay , in this episode of this podcast , you categorize someone as a screw up .

Now , there's a way to look at that , to say , oh , that's very reductive . And if you had time to get into it , you would say , oh well , well , here's the exact , here's why . Blah , blah , blah .

You're just trying to sum it up , because we have a limited amount of time and you can't really do a deep dive into whatever this person's you know , personal anomalies are right . I think some of that is they , rather than I think again , when we look at intent , we say , was Ted Lasso trying to gloss over this ? I don't think so .

I think they're trying to do the best job they can . But I know sometimes when you're talking about certain subject matters that the roots are so deep , it's like such , it's like thin ice . You know what I mean . It's like I don't care if you put one toe on this lake .

You're going through like it feels like that a little bit with certain , with suicide and with addiction and with . You know , we glossed over the number of bottles in Dr Sharon's , like on her , whatever . We've got very much glossed over , not we , the show , the show gloss over like how many .

Just I've called it out many times like man , there's a lot of drinking in the middle of the day . There's just a lot of like real .

So anyway , yes , they probably , they probably could have done a much , much more cohesive sort of overview and I think , boss , if I'm hearing you correctly , you're like I kind of wish you didn't even like set foot on the ice if you couldn't do

it . The problem on justice .

Did we need to have Jack ? Like , if what you want to do is get to , we are dealing with suicide and addiction and mental health issues . If we are going to get down into that , then you need to get cut away . Everything else , like , it is a difficult topic to discuss .

I'm not expecting that every show come out and say this week we're going to deal with the suicide suicidal ideation ? Of course not , but if you choose to do it and they chose to talk about these issues , I feel like they repeatedly introduced them and didn't give them the weight that they deserved and that it .

It is nicer that James Tartt is alive and in rehab and getting help , hopefully , and we'll make a recovery , but that feels like an easy out to me .

Yes , so everything you just said and I , for a number of reasons , including the length of some of the episodes , as much as you guys know they're going to make for Orlando , it could have been three hour episodes Like this , could have been just week after week of Godfather length great episode of Ted Lasso , and I'd have been like you sign me up .

But I think optimally there would have been a fourth season and I think that that would have meant that there would have been room both in just minutes but also just emotionally and intellectually for some of this to settle .

I think some of what you're describing , like this moment , is it's got to happen quick , right , so we're just going to show them there and he's proud and I was glad that he's proud and I , like that moment I'm not going to , you know now , revise it , it did , it did hit me , but as I talk to you , I think , like , well , yeah .

And maybe it would have been helpful to have a moment of James senior making amends If for Wembley , if nothing else right , like just saying like that that that was crappy or whatever , but just something that showed the , the like , the , the work , the grit of it , maybe Jamie not knowing if he couldn't forgive him .

You know , like , whatever it is Like I think part of it is we had to get through a lot and I've pushed back on some because I did , I did think some important things came out of those side steps . But I get how it's like well then , you , you can have either , but you can't have both .

It's like the production , the production triangle of you can have good , fast or cheap , but you can't have all three . And it kind of feels like they wanted good , fast and cheap and just decided they were going to get that and it's like no , no , seriously , you can't have all three .

I think that sometimes there is a perception that people who have experienced abuse or dealt with people who had mental health issues or substance abuse issues , like all these things , that if you know somebody , if you love somebody who's experiencing those things , that when you show us things that most people will think is nice , we're like , no , no , not it , and

that that is something that we are lacking , that somehow the joy or the and I know that I joke about this with myself , I feel totally fine with this when you're like , oh well , you don't experience joy , like you've lost that , a loss of a sort of innocence in a way , and I think that that is accurate .

But that means that there are experiences that I have and know about that you guys haven't . I think it feels sometimes like a deficiency on the part of somebody who has been through these things that we don't have this thing anymore and actually it's oh wait , no , what we have is something else entirely .

We have gained a thing we are not lacking , we have too much . And so you guys see this thing and you know they wanted this to be nice , they wanted to show us a nice moment . And we see it and we think , oh okay , but in real life he's going to get out of rehab and steal your car .

I have experienced all of those and so I've loved people with that , have done all those things and had experiences dealing with that with them , and so in those ways , when somebody does something where it's like , oh , he went to AA and now he's the best father you've ever met , I'm like I don't know if that's going to last that long , like I have my

apprehensions about that , and so I don't want anybody to think that I am saying the show is bad because it's happy . I'm saying the show did not understand what it was getting into when it introduced this and now it has left me in a place where I'm wanting more .

I didn't re-listen to that , to be honest , but I , what made me happy , I guess , or not even happy , but what made , what drew me emotionally to seeing oh , he's in rehab and he's seeing the kid and he gets what he's getting about this moment is the hope , and I get that . It's the hope that kills you .

I mean , we learned that right here during this show , but that's what I attached to , so I guess I didn't think , oh , he's all good , he's going to go through whatever they've got going on here for these 16 weeks and then he's going to not drink anymore and he's going to be fantastic .

What made me react to it was he's going to try , and so I don't think all people would do that . So I get what you're saying also , but I just want to make that distinction . For me , I wasn't like oh wow , cool , like James Sr is healed . What I got was James Sr is trying .

I think that the struggle with knowing somebody who is suffering from substance abuse because they are suffering as much as anybody else the trouble with knowing and loving somebody in that situation , is that you do need to keep that dichotomy constantly operating , where you are always hoping that they are going to get better and always expecting that they will not ,

and that's the only way you can maintain a relationship with them Because if you expect that they are going to show up , they aren't , and then your plans are fucked . And if you expect that , if you think that they can never get better , then you won't have a relationship with them .

So the only way that Jamie could possibly rebuild a relationship with Jane Sr is if he hopes for the best and plans for the worst and makes that the only sort of constant in their relationship , that he is never going to expect that his dad actually gets better , but he is going to continue hoping for it .

I will say that what I prefer about the take is when you said to your co-worker about helping her niece , you said if you have this money to lose , then yeah , then that's great , because you're probably going to lose it . My feeling is there's a high likelihood that that's an outcome . So I like that more than I like the don't do it .

Whatever you do , don't do it Because I do think that it's easy to think of people in tough situations in a way where , when you have that expectation that the worst thing is possible but you hope for the best , that sort of thing , that you also put that on them .

I'm not talking about specific substance abuse , because I don't have experience with it , but there are times . You know that I told you , if they made me present with the world tomorrow , everything would be built around a health economy . Everything , everything in this world would be about people helping people .

And that would be it , because that's what I believe in most strongly and what I believe in about Ted Lasso and what I believe in and when people start to see the through lines between the show Wayne which are going to happen , the thing that I like about it is we talk there's going to be talking this episode about second chances in Ted Lasso and there's going

to be talking in the Wayne episode about second chances , and the whole key to me is that the way Ted Lasso himself views everyone is he always is giving chances .

We can just take the term second off of it , because in their life someone may have seen them in a certain way , but Ted Lasso comes in with a fresh take and his idealized version or his improved version of them can do wonders for where they can actually get

to . So if someone believes in you , you're the woman's niece , your co-worker's niece , who might be on the cusp of just needing one person to believe in her , and so like then that the conversation is . I know , look at boss smiles .

I know I know you don't , because because if you dig down , if you dig down into it , you can say , okay , what is the reason , what's the what's behind her being seen as a scrub . I don't know if it is substance abuse , I don't know what if it is .

If it's not , maybe it's something mental illness where the right brain chemistry , if she gets the right medication , it could help her get to a better place and then make incremental progress .

I'm not saying the people get cured overnight , but sometimes if someone's improved version of themselves is matches with the way a friend sees them or family member sees them , it can do wonders for their ability to actually get to a better place .

Now I understand sometimes people think , hey , that's just bullshit , that they just not going to get to a better place , they're always going to be damaged . But there are people that break that mold . There are addicts who don't relapse .

There are , and sometimes what it takes is that is the person willing to fight with them , not necessarily for them , not necessarily give them the things , but someone's going to be shoulder . I mean , it's the whole concept of sponsorship .

Is , isn't it that the person who understands you and knows when you're full of shit and knows when they can see the thing coming down the pipe , because they have real true to life experience in it .

So I just want to plant a flag and say one of the things I love about Ted Lasso , one of the things I love about the show and the intent of the writing staff , is that they have they introduced Ted as a person who's open to people being their best selves .

In the same way , nate couldn't believe that Ted remembered his name , because no one ever had , up until that point , nate's identity inside of himself as a shit kicker was you're a shit kicker . And after he met Ted Lasso and after he met Beard , his impression of himself was my name's , nate , in this building . I'm worthy of people remembering my name .

And so I just want to put we're trying to put good things into the world and I know , boss , I know we come at things very , very differently and she's smirking at me , if anyone could see this .

But I'm saying I really want to make space for the eventuality that in cases like that , where there's a , there's the potential of helping someone get better , sometimes you know it takes a village . Sometimes maybe you can say , okay , listen , I can't do the cosine thing , but let's see if we can have everybody chip in .

I know , I know , I know you're going to . I don't know the specifics of that specific example , but I do know that , like I really believe in helping people , I just don't think people get anywhere if everybody views them a certain way . It's very hard to change your self image when that's the case .

That's truly , as I've thought about it , I feel like whatever fates there are or whatever power there is in the universe was like that's you , that's your , that's that's your thing . Is you see that somebody can be great ? Or how they can be great ? You help them see it , you help them be it . That's what you do . Okay , cool , thanks , love it .

Part of what I do is look for the look for it , look for the good , try to help you see it and then try to help you be that as fully as possible . So the kid who was always last out on the field , I promise you , without asking him or his coach , I promise you he is not last out on the field for every practice . I just know .

I just I don't have to ask him . I don't have to ask his coach , I don't have to . I know that , I know that he's not that anymore and he's see , he's gotten some of what I was telling him about don't always be last out onto the field . And so I get that .

And there's a story I'll tell as quickly as I can where you know , as coach , has shared before . Just because it's middle school kids doesn't mean that I can't treat it like it's a full time job on which my life rests , and so we were first year . I was at this middle school and building the flag football program , the quote unquote , varsity .

We got to the championship game , which was ridiculous because literally the first practice we had . I said , all right , everybody on the line and they all looked at me like I was speaking Portuguese and I was like , oh my God , these fucking kids don't know what the line of scrimmages is .

Not every single one of them , but , like the majority , looked at me like what line ? What's happening ? What are you talking about ? So that's , that's no bullshit . Where we started , one of my coaches to mock us used to like if we were screwing something up , he would be like All right , let's start at the beginning . This is a football .

Like that was when you knew like he was fucking done with us . This is a football . So , anyway , so I , this , this other team is just bigger , faster , better . We are going to lose this championship game . That is what's going to happen , except no fucking way am I going to accept that getting to the championship game is what it is .

I'm going to figure out how we can beat this team . That is just goddamn better than us , period . So I come up with this defense and I'm blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , right . And I'm like , okay , if we play it like that , the key plays , they do .

I think we stop them some , we get them frustrated , like I'm like , all right , I think this is like , if we play them 100 times , maybe we could win three this is how I think we could make this one of the three and they and they . So I come and I look at it and I'm like , all right , what could , what could fuck this up ?

And I realize there's one kid am I going to say the name ? Because , yeah , anyway , I'm not gonna say the name and he and he was , in a word , an awful head . Now , like you said earlier about saying about people , it was a lot more complicated than that .

But in essence and I love my knuckleheads I've been teased for always pulling knuckleheads into the program who weren't even going to join . I love my knuckleheads , but he was not , and I was like the only thing that can screw this up is if he does something at school that means he can't play . If he can play , we're good , right , I have their numbers .

Whatever they're allowed to text me , I text them . Their parents know . So I'm like you know , creating a little child cult here . But . But I so I text him and I say hey , listen to me , tomorrow you go to school , you go to lunch , you chew with your mouth closed , you don't . You stay up . Blah , blah , blah . The kid gets in a fight at lunch , oh God .

And I was like it was literally like . I looked at it and I was like this could happen and it's truly the only thing that would screw this up . And it did . We lost . We might be able to lose anyway , but what it ? For me , as I thought about it later , we didn't have a ton of choices . Can you all still hear me ?

Okay , we didn't have a ton of choices . But part of me as a coach went how could you hinge the whole thing on a kid you knew in your heart you had to text to remind not to get in trouble tomorrow , like , yes on him , but it's also on you . Like I don't know that I had a lot of other choices .

I was really just trying to pull a rabbit out of my hat , but I think being a bit more real about who I was talking to would have served us well and also maybe , just maybe , accept that , like , don't even bother texting them . Whatever's going to happen tomorrow is what's going to happen tomorrow .

The idea that you're going to text him and say this to him and so he's not going to , you know , do something crazy , you know . But there was a part of me that believed , because I said it and he said , yeah , I got your coach that it was handled .

And it wasn't handled because he was the kind of guy who would get in fights at lunch sometimes and that was just what it was .

It was a very heavy conversation and next episode , boss , boss is going to lightweight . I know exactly . See , we haven't . I once lost a box of frosted flakes and it really really sent me over the oh , you guys haven't experienced anything . Have you coached ? Thank you , boss , thank you . You're mocking laughter and big ins me . That's funny .

We'll talk about that and then , before he runs out of the , out of the out of the thing he also has a moment with someone else .

It's going to take a minute , just truly like two minutes , but I think it is so important to today's conversation , I promise , I promise it would only be the two and there's no need to talk about it . All right , so this is a poem that was recited by John Wooden , who is a significant in this show , and I was written in 1948 .

So some of the stuff that said is a bit dated but I think really speaks to the piece we were talking about , about the coaching and the believing in people and how this all goes . So they asked me why I teach , and it was written by Glenis L Harmon . They asked me why I teach and I reply where could I find more splendid company ?

There sits a statesman , strong , unbiased , wise . Another later Webster , silver toned , and they are a doctor whose quick , steady hand can mend the bone or stem the lifeblood flow . A builder sits beside him .

Upward rise the archers , the archers of a church he builds wherein that minister will speak the word of God and lead a stumbling soul to touch the Christ , and all and all about a lesser gathering of farmer , merchants , teachers , laborers , men who work and vote and build and plan and pray into a great tomorrow .

And I say I may not see the church or hear the word or eat the food . Their hands will grow . And yet I may and letter later . I may say I knew the lad and he was strong or weak or kind or proud or bold or gay . I knew him once , but when ? But then he was a boy .

They asked me why I teach and I reply where could I find more splendid company ?

The stories are what make your heart pump and make you get fired up about things , whether it's a story of sporting something happened in the sporting world or the political realm , or the interpersonal world .

Keep in mind that the stories sort of fuel everything in our lives and to respect them In that way , please support your local libraries and the written word , and until next time we are .