Deep Dive Interview - Meet the Queen!

We are going to meet a very , very special person , someone that Coach , coach and Boss I'm speaking in the third person , apparently are very , very excited to know , and we're excited to share this person with you . I am your host , coach Castleton . With me , as always , is Coach Bishop .

We feel like we will put them up to any . Not feel like I'll put our listener community up against any other podcast listener community . You are all intelligent and evolved and exciting and fun and you don't take yourself too seriously and you know when we're joking . I can't tell you the .

I can't tell you what it does for Coach and Boss and I when we make a terrible joke , like we say I say something stupid and off color , and no one writes a terrible email like how dare you ? you know , because they know I'm joking and they know Boss is joking and they know Coach is joking .

So it means a lot to have this type of listener base and listener group . We have made friends all over the world and one of our friends are , i would say , okay , how do we ? how do we categorize the queen of butter cups ? We decided to say , okay , listen , let's try to open up subscriptions for people to try to help us fund this podcast .

And we said are there any kind souls out there ? Is there , is there anyone who will join us and and support whatever lunacy that we do for hours upon hours at a time .

And , of course , one person shot to the forefront became our very first subscriber made me cry , because just seeing that somebody cared enough to put their their pocketbook on the line or their wallet on the line was such an approbation .

And this person , when I first thanked , when I first thanked her for being a buttercup being the very first buttercup I pronounced her name wrong because I'm not smart , but also I think the spelling is a little .

We're going to talk a little bit about the spelling because I've never seen it spelled that way , but I want everyone to please join me in welcoming the queen of the motherfucking buttercups , jenna .

And then we got on this call and we realized , oh my God , we have more in common . It's crazy , jenna , tell us where . First of all , where'd you grow up ?

They live in southwestern , most of them live in about southwestern Germany , baden-wuttenberg area , and I spent a year there learning the language , playing soccer for fun or I should say football , but yeah , so playing for fun , getting the love back , the spark back , that was very exciting for me after all those injuries .

And then they were supposed to go in and reconstruct the ACL and they chose not to without , like you know , my consent , like I didn't necessarily consent to them not doing it , but they made a call to not do it And so by the time , you know , i was rehabbed , i had already fully torn it .

So I had to go back for a second surgery which pretty much wiped me out of my whole , like 11th grade year of playing soccer .

And so I didn't , you know , i missed recruiting year , which was really upsetting , which is why I was like , you know , fuck it , i'm just going to go to Germany , i don't want to go to college , because it's just going to remind me that I can't play .

I mean , i probably could have walked on if I worked hard enough , but yeah , i just wanted to run away , so that's good , that's good .

And then I started playing like coed in 2011 again and was having a really great time and things were going really well . And then it was like raining one day and I decided to play outside with my .

My friends team was having like a practice like their men's team And I went and the ground was just really soggy And so within like 10 minutes , i tore my MCL , acl and meniscus again . So all left , all left knee .

Do my understanding about ACL tears is when you have a reconstructive ACL surgery , it is less likely to tear to re-tear than no . Is that not true ? It's more likely to reach it .

It's just like the year of torn ACLs for soccer players , and I was . I God . Where did I hear that ? anecdotally ? I thought that once the maybe it's the Achilles coaches of the Achilles .

He can say the title of the book , It doesn't matter , You spoke , you win , And these idiots have to really do something . So that's just a little . That's for the kids . What the hell are you talking ?

. But basically , jenna ran more and played harder than your , than your Jamie Tarts and your Zavas . She would , she would do all of the work and then get the ball up the field and feed them , and they would like tap it in and get all the glory .

And now , jenna , it seems to me just a real quick question about your play style when you played Aggressive , okay , yes , hell , yes , yeah , i was . My question was are you able to just go out and have fun , like , are you able to play for fun ?

You know , i mean I don't play anymore post fourth surgery , but yeah , i mean I was never the fastest , i was pretty agile on the ball , but I was tough as nails and I would body check and take a body check like no one else , yes , so Feel pretty , pretty good about that , like I could hold my own very well .

I would read them and then I would read them aloud , off air , to coach and boss , and there would be things that I so I would try to pick up and I'd say , okay , i'm crazy about Jenna , i would like her to also be crazy about me .

But you would say things like fuck , yes for boss , that she's unabashedly being raunchy and you know , whatever you're just like or whatever you know just like , really a lot of good stuff about boss , a lot of great stuff about coach . And then you're telling me about your position and I'm like stopper makes you and I natural enemies .

Just natural , natural , like I just scowl at stoppers my whole life . You are you because you are trying to prevent me from feeding my ego . And coach , do I like that , is that ?

And then you get that injury and you go okay , the trajectory has changed . And so I was like all right , I'm going to have a little more fun . I'm not going to take this as seriously , but did you apply to colleges before you took a gap year and then defer ? or did you just say I'm taking a year off and I would go to Germany ?

Like you're going to a state school And then if you want to do those things , like you can figure it out down the line , but let's not like spend an arm and a leg for you to go to , you know , undergrad . And , of course , my dad was like you can go wherever you want .

My mom was like very practical with the money , very practical , a lot of life decisions .

I just always wanted to be a team player and someone that brought people together , and so I found individual sports .

It was that I could see Castleton sit back in his chair and cross his arms and I could feel the wheels turning where he was like , oh well , we're going to have to have her on again Like I'm getting replaced as we speak , He's already like how can I get these two ?

And at the time so I guess , for context , my graduating year was 2004 for high school and like strength and conditioning was not really a thing at that point at the high school level .

Maybe a little bit in football , maybe a little bit in some other sports , but for the most part , athletes who did really well on the school soccer team were the ones who were in track or doing some sort of conditioning off season . And like soccer was my whole life . It's the only thing I ever wanted to do .

I played in my backyard every day , went before practice , stayed after practice . It was like really all I cared about And I didn't . Not that I would want to go back because high school is the worst . No , middle school is the worst , but high school is pretty bad as well . Nothing I would go back .

But if I could like impart knowledge now onto my younger self , it would probably be that like strength and conditioning probably would have prevented or made my injuries less major than they were and probably would have gotten me further in my career to pay attention to some of those things .

But you know it is what it is , which I still haven't told you what I do for a living , which is hilarious . Well , that's all the time we have . Jenna , Thank you for coming on .

But I don't know if there was enough knowledge at that time for , like , adolescent strength and conditioning to be really good . I don't know .

Jenna , when you were in , would you say Bonn , where were you in Germany ?

It's definitely dragged me to the car . I'll tell you exactly what I'm going to do with a participation trophy when I see you with you .

No , i worked there before I left to go to Germany . But I came back and started working there again And I went to community college for a year because I had no idea what I was going to do And I hadn't applied as my parents wanted me to , to apply while I was in Germany . I was just like I don't really know . So , yeah , i took that year .

So I had two solid years of partying one one one year in Germany and one year back home .

I just think it's really important and it really helps kids refocus and understand actually what they're getting into and then appreciate if they get into a good school , if they have a good place where they're going .

You really reframes the conversation And it's less of like mom and dad saying you know , you ought to be really appreciative And then they just go Oh shit , i've seen what the world looks like . This is a fucking cakewalk compared to what's out there . So I think it's great . I wish there was more .

And also , again , i think it's Mark Twain who said one of paraphrasing , but it was something along the lines of like one of the one of the cures for you know , sort of . I guess God boss , will you look this up for me .

There was a limited run And then like I have my pair but this whole they're destroyed And I can't whatever . So about three days ago , browsing , and I find a pair of my size And I'm like Oh my God , and instead of immediately pressing buy now because they were like , i'm like I have four kids , so I made an offer .

I was like Hey , would you take like , you know , like , and then they just van . I don't know what happened , but I didn't get . If I just said buy now , but I was a cheap bastard and I didn't get them . And now I'll throw her pine , but I think it's nice that every everyone on this , on this , on this team , is Adidas .

all right . after this , after your let's call it Jenna's wild period , you then , where did what happened ? Where'd you go ?

That's typically where prior jocks fall somewhere between athletic training , pre PT , pre med .

Then I transitioned into pre med because I was ready to take school seriously , met some pretty amazing professors who I really looked up to in the biological science arena And I just started tutoring , doing something called supplemental instruction , doing a lot of work with my professors .

So , being a TA , ra , so research assistant , i just really got a passion for academics and realized if you work hard you can be smart , which I think in high school when you're a jock , you try in your classes but sometimes you don't try too hard and you're like , yeah , I'm a A minus student , i can coast and not feel too pressed .

But then college is kind of different and you realize you kind of have to show up and do the work . I think I just realized that day one you get a syllabus and that's a game plan And if you follow the syllabus you can do well in a class And a lot of students don't read the syllabus .

So if you're a student , please read your syllabus and refer to it multiple times during the semester .

It's really , It gets old to a certain point , But that was my things to him was this is a game . I said school is a game And so I love what you just said about this being the game plan . I was like here's what .

I was very good at playing that game And you know , when you say that about the syllabus , all the time I remember studying with groups and being like why are you all studying that ? Well , we had the book on whatever I was like . She mentioned that book on the first day And she has not mentioned this since . That is not going to be on this test .

I'm not studying that , You know , and I think there is value to that . I'm not saying don't go and learn , But I think there's also the learning of like how do you navigate all this information and all this stuff to be able to get to the answers that you really need ? Yeah , So anyway , I like hearing you talk about it better .

And I think you know it's hard to communicate that to shy students or students that don't want to talk up , you know . But I mean that's just , if not in class , office hours or you know , be seen and heard and show that you're putting in the work And even if you're not the best student but you're utilizing your resources .

There are plenty of classes I was . I was horrendous at physics . Like it literally took me until my doctoral studies to like really understand physics , because I had to take a biomechanics class And I had to like rehash some physics stuff that I was not looking forward to .

But I was really really good at bio and chem like very good , but I didn't understand physics . I had to go to a tutor like multiple times a week . I had to like get help where I needed it .

I had to go to the professor and ask for help , like just being able to know that there are resources and then using those resources and say , hey , i'm showing up and I'm trying And even if I'm not going to get an A , i'm sure it's all going to try to get above a C .

They've like right . Oh , that's nice , all right , we are looking for those of you who this is not a visual medium , okay . Those of you who haven't found our YouTube channel yet Jenna , wow , can you see that again , please ? Sure .

So , yeah , i just always loved octopi And I knew that I wanted to get a tattoo of one And I was had thinking for a long time that I'd also get lilies . So my grandmother's name the one that was from Germany was is named Lily And she passed in 2021 . And then my dad unfortunately passed close after my .

His mom passed And so he was a cancer , so I got the crab for my dad .

something and I want to . I want to close a couple of of conversations before we get into this one beautiful email that Jenna sent to us . So , jenna , real quick , you are a professor , right ? I was trying to allude to that And tell us a little bit about that .

So for folks that don't know the like hierarchy of per person professional professorship , the first rank is assistant professor , then you have associate professor and then you have like full professor , but it's just professor , it's usually say full And then if you go on the tenure track you are expected to you know , at least make associate professor after , say , five

to six years of putting in the hard work and building your CV and showing that you're a productive researcher and that you have good evals by students in your courses . And I think now a lot of folks that get their PhD are seeing the value of going industry and not necessarily saying in academia And I write out of my PhD , went into a tenure track position .

Lovely school , actually really loved . I went to Old Dominion . Loved Old Dominion , loved the faculty there , like really good culture . They kind of shifted . They were in college of education and now they're going over to health sciences . But really liked it there . But it was .

You know I pretty much graduated in 2019 , pandemic hits and I'm like in a new city , feeling completely isolated and alone and not really wanting to start the research line that I was set up to start based off of my studies , like what , like the expected projection of what my research was . I was having second thoughts And teaching online for two years straight .

I mean it was at the time it was R2 , which is not a huge emphasis on like a good emphasis on research , but definitely teaching tends to be more important And so safety was a huge priority at that time of COVID .

It has since changed to an R1 , so where research is heavily prioritized And I ended up leaving and coming back to UNC , chapel Hill , which is where I did my PhD , and I came back into a postdoc to get extra training to kind of pivot what I was really interested in moving towards with , forward with , and then I spun that after a year into a research faculty

position . So I'm a research assistant professor now , so I don't have the checklist of moving up the tenure ladder and I can kind of focus specifically on research . I still have a lot of mentorship responsibilities with students in the lab that I work in , which is usually the best part of the job , and I travel a lot for our research projects .

We have a really large project that we're working on right now . That's kind of between North Carolina , south Carolina and Virginia And if I wanna pick up classes on the side , if they're offered , i can do that . At the moment it's not really convenient because we're traveling for research . But I don't know like I have more freedom in this role .

I'm not sure if I , if I'm long for academia in general , but it's a better role . It's a less constraining role . I don't feel suffocated And I feel like I can make . It's a good place to be grounded and make decisions moving forward .

So I do think about it . What I will say is my entire life , like , i've consistently looked for mentors and spaces that I'm trying to go , and I find it very difficult to find really good mentorship , which is unfortunate and similar when I was younger , like I think I mentioned in the email , like it was difficult to find good coaches .

I mean the one coach that I had that really I felt like changed my life so few and far between , because I had a lot of really poor , poor , poor coaches growing up , and so it's like I am looking for mentorship in certain areas , but at some point I think you just have to step up as an adult and say , okay , i'm gonna execute with or without the

mentorship .

And we also say constantly , as you know , probably better than anyone , people push off decisions until they're forced to make a decision . And so , if you can take any agency boss , what were you gonna say ?

Like as adults , we need to be the helpers , we can't just like my my uncle Buddy , you gotta get off Twitter . I know I really do I really do .

Boss , what were you saying ?

And then the manager would have to come over and be like hey , what's up , Brian , What ?

And I mean there's just not enough of those bars in America .

If I were in Boston and I walked in with a Yankee shirt , i probably would get you know brutally .

It was made very clear to her And I am a Chelsea fan And you should never be a Chelsea fan . You should , or a Manu fan . But the reason I'm a Chelsea fan is because I did a lot of work to find my team And I was going to find some like third string , shitty little Premier League team .

And then I'm a big Michael Cain fan And there was one day where he was talking about how much he loved Chelsea And it just moved me And I was like all right , i know I'm not supposed to be whatever , but they're also blue , which aligns a lot with my political stuff , and so I was like all right , all right , i'm just going to , i'm just going to start

with Chelsea , and then it just stuck . So I apologize because I know they're like the red socks of the Yankees , but but yes , i that's . So we have a lot of infighting in our house about that , yeah .

So you know , i thought so , me and a bunch of my guy friends . I was never very good at video games , but FIFA was a big thing .

When we were in high school we'd all play And I thought I would dabble with United first And then I kind of just by default , ended up with with Arsenal , the Invincibles , and I pretty much all of my friends had like a different team . We all represented different teams . My best friend is a Spurs fan , like he's always been Tottenham .

I have one friend who's Everton . I have one friend who's Liverpool , so it kind of was came from that . It sounds , yeah , like I said , it sounds a little arbitrary , but then I just stuck it stuck .

Coach , we used to play in a in a video game NCAA football league , which I still have trauma over coach beating me with the South Carolina Gamecocks . I just remember that was his team And it was so like coach , he's like nodding and laughing cause he just had this defense that wouldn't quit And I would get so mad .

It was a huge episode And it was interesting because episode eight of season this is season three episode eight dropped and the floodgates open And there was this schism in the Ted Lasso universe and people all over the place started complaining more than they had been . Episode nine ended up being LaLocca Room .

Yeah right , Yes , But it was a return to form in that you at least had some scenes of the team . Episode eight was a tough one because it was just , you know , closing up various sort of plot holes and the Nates and the Jax and the Jades and Dr Jacobs . It was just a tough episode and very aspirational .

I don't know if it ever got where it needed to get . But then you get to episode 10 and this is where this email came in from you And I was just blown away by so much from this email . And again , listen , everyone who's listening .

This is okay , this is an exceptional email And I consider myself an email critic or an email connoisseur and I just loved this so much And I have- .

That's the thing , for whatever we're doing and having these conversations , people put us on in the background and they start to listen and they just they feel like they get to know us or something along those lines , and then we get this insane amount of kindness and intelligence and trust and openness .

And this one from Jenna we've read other people when we did polls and things like that . We've read some of the responses And so this is something we keep hammering home . But this one from Jenna was something that kind of knocked my socks off And it was the first one I said to the team .

I said , listen , we have to deep dive this email because there is so much here , so let's just let's drop in from the paragraph . I will point out that there was a picture in the beginning and Jenna notes here that .

Okay , actually , jenna , will you just read this first part to us , the , dare I say , serendipity , and because it'll be nice to hear it in your own voice .

Seriously , i always feel in sync with y'all .

I would watch the episodes and then I would write these literally 50,000 word reviews , recaps there's like a book every single week And that's where I started to really get into the sort of deep dive thing .

And so when I came up with the idea , we fell in love with Ted Lasso right out of the gate And I told boss and coach hey , let's think about doing a Ted Lasso deep dive . And they were like , oh , that's cute , but that's pretty stupid , it's not gonna work . And then we recorded the first one , and this is a true story .

We recorded the first one and we did generally what we do . We really go into detail And then , once I hit stop on record , boss said like , oh , you mean like a fucking deep dive .

So Jenna continues bear with me , this email is going to be long-winded and likely an overshare , so just some like key self-awareness there . But it really wasn't an overshare , because we love her , and this is exactly we live for this stuff . This is exactly why we have this , and , yes , we love Ted Lasso .

We really do , at different levels and for different reasons . But more than Ted Lasso , more than loving Ted Lasso , what we love is the conversation that we've had around Ted Lasso and the friends that we've made because of Ted Lasso , and emails like this are literally what makes the Buttercup shine . This is why we have Buttercups .

This is the important stuff , and so I don't want to gloss over it and I want to make sure that we can share it with our listener community , because Jenna's amazing and this was so thoughtful and thought-provoking . And so , boss , why don't you start by reading the ? I wanted to drop some lines .

Don't get me wrong on that , but I think this is a general sort of you're all fucking crazy ladies , but Jenna's right there with me . What an absurd sentiment . If anything , the pandemic and the state of the world would likely suggest that not wanting to have children is the more understandable choice .

As a woman in my mid-30s who has done literally countless hours of therapy and healing and even of those of us who do engage in those activities , are still a long way from being healed . but , to be real , absolutely .

. Yeah , not all starbursts , not all starbursts . So , when we get to this , right , we go wait a second . So , first of all , i love this because I like the girl power of it and I like the solidarity with boss And we say sometimes people will shit on us via review .

They don't know the mechanism and they're like okay , i've seen these misogynistic fucking posts and it drives me crazy and they're just like they'll pick on boss or something right Now . I know she's the weak link of the podcast , obviously Like that goes without saying , but no , they'll be really shitty . She's not the weak , i'm obviously kidding .

But when they do that , my hackles go up and I'm like I wanna kill . I'm just like are you fine ? It makes me crazy .

I'm so protective of boss , despite what I do on the air , i love her so much and I'm so protective and coach is the same way And we just get like , we get crazy And we're like I don't give a shit In this fucking forum , boss is a legend and we are going to have her back at all costs and for every reason .

And yes , we shit on her because she enjoys it and she has fun with it . But like , fuck the outside world and fuck the rules about how women should be treated because it's bullshit . And at least here we can control how women are perceived and what we learned from them .

And you'll hear boss correct us a million times when we're being stupid and we just appreciate it . It's like what do we know everything ?

There's so much in this world that you don't know as a man that nobody teaches you and you stumble , you trip over your own dick for lack of a better term half of your life trying to figure these things out And then finally some kind soul will acquiesce and start teaching you like hey , man , look at it from a different perspective .

And that's been our relationship with boss since the get go And we're nothing but thrilled about it .

So my dad was extremely argumentative shocking , i know , given who I am as a person , but being a father in his early 20s and coming from a big family himself where everybody debates and everything else , he would argue with a rock if the rock was laying the wrong way , like that was what he would do .

My younger sister , who listens to the podcast , one time out of the blue for some reason , said to him the Beatles aren't very good . And he said what ? And she said yeah , i don't really like the Beatles , they're not very good . And he goes oh , you don't know anything . And that's what I think .

every time somebody writes something , that's a particularly stupid comment Oh , you don't know anything .

And boss is like I have a fucking great life . I just went to three concerts , i just did drugs , i'm happy . No one fucks up my space . Like the boss has this shit on lock .

And listen , as a person who , this was a very clear sort of thing for me And I was like if I could have , i probably would have had kids of my own when I was like seven , i just have always wanted kids . It's like my core identity is being a dad . But this is a valid , really more than valid . This is a fantastic take on .

We're gonna get more into this because Jenna brings up some points , or it's like it . Really , without even sort of alluding to it , she really drives home the point about okay , why ? Well , let's think about the why , what's behind this ?

And we're gonna get to it in one of these other paragraphs As one of my men , 30 is done , literally countless hours of therapy and healing . Now , okay , you have those people that do it and they're like I'm fine , i'm fixed , i've done the healing . Coach has that vibe about him where he's like oh , i know everything .

And Coach , turn your mic on because people can't hear you laughing . Turn your goddamn mic on , coach .

Some people figure out other ways to heal without the therapy , they figure ways to cope and things like that , but they don't throw out this thing when they say , and even those who do engage in those activities , they're still a long way from being healed . Let's be real , and I'm like God , i just love this .

All right , i just wanted to make sure we highlighted this , because I was just reading this and my jaw like kind of opened and I was like , oh my God , who is this person ? All right , keep going , boss .

Aside from that being the general narrative for what a woman should want , if anything , the past decade of my life has made me realize that maybe waiting until I'm older and adopting an older child might be the best route for me to not compromise the things I want to want now for the things I want in the future . Fucking yes . I love that line so much .

It makes me so happy that there is this trade-off that everybody needs to do , and everybody seems to think that the trade-off is we don't do the thing we want to now because we are waiting for something better . And that makes me crazy .

I will be going to see Jimmy World , one of the concerts that I'm going to because I don't have children to take care of Exactly One of my favorite songs . A line it's not specifically there , but there's line I should say It's this is what she says gets her through it . If I don't let myself be happy now , then when ? If not now , when ?

And I'm like fuck , yes , absolutely , if not now , when ? So I was thrilled by that . I loved it .

But in the same way , when we first started talking to Jenna , she identified like hey , here's the game plan . This is a syllabus , right ? That's a person who likes to step back and review and say , wait a second , like let's figure out the why .

And so when we say I just want to read this line again , this says if anything , the past decade of my life has made me realize that maybe waiting until I'm older and adopting an older child might wait , but you don't want to have your own biological child . That you can like , that's okay . We're not even going to get into that because it's so .

It's such a great outlook . Anyway , adopting an old child might be the best route for me to not compromise the things I want now for the things I may want in the future . And , boss , i think you skipped over the Lord May , which is a huge word in this , because it identifies that I don't know what I want .

How could I know what I'm going to want in the future ? And oh , jenna , is that your doggy ? Yeah , okay , this is a Jenna , this is a shepherd mix . You said named Trinity .

wrong . That's a different show , wow .

And she's like it can't be , though , and I was like you want to see something fun ? Go ahead and do my shoulders , because my shoulders are twice as big as my hips are . I am like , yeah , it's wild , and I'm normally on tour .

wanted so badly or worked so hard to make happen . Yeah , it apps a goddamn Lutli , like I do think that there is John Mulaney in one of his stand up specials talks about the songs where tonight is the night and it can only be tonight And this is the night for .

And he's like that is some high school bullshit , because when you turn 35 is oh , tonight doesn't work . Okay , how about if we just don't talk for six months and everything will be fine ? It doesn't matter ? So like we have this feeling that it needs to be now , it needs to be this way .

If we don't do it this way , then we're automatically screwing things up for the future , when in reality it will be okay , like it's going to come differently but it's going to be okay .

It's difficult to see harsh ends to relationship sometimes because it's like we're choosing to show up every day for each other and the days that we can't show up for each other anymore that are going to be in favor for us to grow in our bests , into our best selves .

Then we should agree that we have to part , And I didn't understand that when I was younger at all . Yes , Sure , But yeah .

Like people , i think you know anger is the bodyguard for hurt , and so you feel hurt , so you feel upset that somebody is changing in a way that makes them further away from you , instead of recognizing this is just what they need to do right now .

Like at least , if you adopt a kid , who's older , who's somebody you could be like I don't know , your parents seems like they were annoying . No , i'm saying I don't know what your problem is .

And I would push back and say we should all reserve the right to change your minds , but people just capitulate , they just abdicate that responsibility or their own personal agency And they feel like they're a cork on the ocean And they forget that they have the choice to change that .

So when I read what you said here , sometimes it doesn't feel like timing works out in favor in the moment . And then we know well , isn't that amazing ?

Because when you got to an academic environment that you were ready to sort of when you were there , you had this moment where you started to absorb it and you're like , oh my God , i can actually succeed in this environment And this is something I like . I enjoy being smart .

I enjoy , you know , i'm good at the hard work And if I just put one foot in front of the other and buckle down , i can actually make something of myself .

But maybe the timing wasn't right . You know , right out of school You had to go to Germany and you had to go to TGI Fridays and wake up drunk on the hood of a Camaro , which I'm guessing happened .

We know you well enough , jenna , that I was enjoying watching you as boss stumbled and got words wrong . She's not a good reader , so sometimes she just puts other words in .

Little did I know that the past four years of being in survival mode from a toxic environment where I was consistently oppressed , bottled up my anxiety and was confronted with the fact that I've spent my whole life being a good little girl , all the ways I've been oppressed and only stood up to the injustice of others instead of myself would hit me like a fucking

freight train . My nervous system crashed . There were days I wasn't functional . I never really understood before when someone said they were depressed and couldn't carry out day to day tasks . I was processing so much trauma of a broken academic system that treats graduate students so poorly , specifically those who are underrepresented .

. When you hear about depression secondhand , and you're like , oh , that person got depressed . When I grew up in a family , they would say , a child of immigrants , or my mother was an immigrant .

My father was just a hard ass and kind of a Homer Simpson , but he just sort of defaulted to her because she was more fierce , so she made the rules for the family and she would think like , oh , depression is just an excuse to get out of work . Like that's just like what people make up , there's no such thing as depression .

Or they would say like she also said that about allergies , just didn't believe allergies to this day . I'll be like , oh , you know , i'm allergic to whatever . She's like oh , put some tea , tea oil on it , that's fine . I'm like , okay .

So when I , when I , i love this , this thing where you say like , oh , i just thought , oh , you know , hey , if someone's depressed , you know , i never really understood before because you can't and then it hits you and you go , or it hits someone you love .

Luckily I have avoided having that's not one part of my personal profile , but a lot of people in my family and and people I've been close to over the years suffer from it , and it is . It is what it .

When it hits , when it comes home and you see , like someone you love or someone you care about or something , just someone , for the very first time , they can't get out of their bed And you're like are you like ? what is it ? It totally . You're like , oh , oh . so this is like Holy shit , like this is a real thing , like it's . And how did ?

how did you know about depression before ? And then , once you experienced it , how did it , how did that change ?

And as you get into the real world and have a lot more responsibility as an adult , you start realizing the harsh reality of those responsibilities that you have and that you didn't have as a as a teen .

I know this about myself and we'll get to it , i think , but I definitely function on the side of anxiety most of the time , like I've always been an overthinker . So I always knew I was an overthinker , i knew I was an overanalyzer And I guess I just never realized how bad it could get .

And so when you're in an environment that like changes so I don't know if you all know the window of tolerance , but if it you're in an environment like a prolonged period of time where your window of tolerance changes , so where your nervous system isn't like in the natural fluctuation of like arousal and depression I was in hyperarousal for a really , really long

time And at some point your body tells you you can't function anymore in hyperarousal , you can't be hypervigilant anymore , you're going to crash . And so the moment you crash , you realize like I don't know if I'm going to rebound , like I don't know how I'm going to rebound .

And those are the moments where you know , when you are speaking with a therapist , and they'll know obviously better than you will in the moment , that is this something that I need to , you know , have anti-depressants or anti-anxieties to get out of this state that I can't function right now .

So how do I get back to you know what my set point or what my window of tolerance should be , and how do I reset my nervous system so I can start functioning again ? And you know a lot of people say shit about meds and aren't supportive of meds .

And the therapist at the time , like just you know , really explained it well to me , like this is a season of your life , i'm not telling you you have to be on meds long term , but I do want you to get to a state that you can function again and that you can feel good again and that I can help you , you know , regulate that window of tolerance .

And so , yeah , at the time I went on anti-depressants and it was more for generalized anxiety .

So I don't know how much you know about all the brands and all that , but I essentially was on a Fexer which is like not an SSRI but an SNRI , so it was more of like a jolt , if you will , and and yeah , i mean it got me through and it worked , it worked Okay . Yeah .

When you hear it , there's all sorts of schools of thoughts And , yes , boy , we would love to all eat carrots , but there's a thing called brain chemistry And you don't even say , oh , can I have lettuce and feel better ? No , probably not . So you have to get just that brain chemistry . And , yes , we don't , ideally .

You know , there's a lot of studies about long term effects of being on SSRIs and we can get into that at a later date when I actually read about them and not just talking out of my ass . But in general , yeah , to get that bump and to help you get out of that .

And can we , can we focus on how this could have possibly happened to you , jenna , when you were just a good little girl , which is part of the thing ? How's that fair ? I know , like boss , what do you have to say about that , boss ?

Even at the point where , yeah , we're being angry is , if I myself am angry , the people around me might feel attacked because of that , even if I'm not doing anything to attack them , like if I'm saying , if I'm expressing my anger , they will feel attacked because we're so bad about these things .

But especially with women , we encourage them to be good little girls and not make trouble and not talk about how they're upset or not feeling well or need help , because we're not supposed to be problems . Boys are going to be boys and girls are supposed to be good .

And it's very good fucking horrible for us , it's bad for everybody , but it's so terrible for women to feel like needing help Or being emotionally vulnerable is morally bad , like I already feel fucking depressed . What do you want from me ? Like you can't give me a guilt trip to .

Hey , dude , like look at it from this point of view , juliana has a friend who , oh man , what she's like brilliant , like , literally , i think , like a brilliant , brilliant , brilliant woman who Juliana kept saying she just kind of like girl , you got to decolonize yourself a little bit , you got to stick like whatever , and it just never happened , you know , never

happened . And then over the weekend we saw her and she was like , oh , like something in the last week or two You know what I mean . And then it seems like Jenna , you got hit with all of this at once , like bottling up your anxiety being a good little girl , all the ways I've been oppressed , you know these sorts of things .

They seem like they kind of all kind of is a big waterfall , yeah .

One of my prized possessions is a signed Mia Ham framed jersey that I love Mia Ham , love her . She's such a legend .

This is fucking ridiculous . I'm just like a normal sized child . But you know , in my neighborhood it was like a lot of boys and then two girls and they were very , very slim . And then there was me And so I felt like I was consistently picked on for being a husky , they would call me , but I was always crushed them in sports .

And all of a sudden , the society starts crushing and you know all these mixed messages and all these crazy expectations . And now and it sounds like you that can't believe like makes me so mad for you . I want to go back and anyone says husky or whatever . I'm like , are you ?

I try . So you 10 soccer , like it switches to boys and girls . That's no longer coed , like under eights and lower , you're kind of playing coed .

I tried out for the U10 boys team and I made it And I had a very long discussion with my father whether or not I should play with the boys instead of the girls , and he really wanted me to because he thought it would be better for my player development , like that , that when I would eventually have to go back to play with the girls , that I would just

be like ahead , like ahead of the game . But I also was like I'm going to be the odd man out , like I'm a female , like I'm not unaware of , like the pressures of being , and so I remember being .

Like what if we go to tournaments and the boys don't want to room with me , right , like I don't say that , just like no one's going to want to be my friend , like who's going to stick up for me , like who's going to be my teammate , i'm going to be alone . And my dad was like you're tough , you know you can do it , you'll find a way .

And he really wanted it for me . But he was like I'll support your decision , you know .

So I ended up playing like switching to U10 girls , but like in retrospect I'm like that conversation was so I wish I knew where my dad was coming from , because I think there's a part of him that was like understood what I should do , like as a female , but also wanted me to be the best , like push me to be the best I could be as long as I wanted it ,

and so I don't know what the narrative for her , for him , was as a father trying to be like and very overprotective father , by the way , like intensely overprotective , so it was , i don't know .

After that , i never really thought of it again until I came up recently because I was writing a chapter for something and I was thinking about back on that time and just being like wow , i already felt the pressure of like this decision is life-altering .

And I'm like , not even 10 years old , i'm nine years old and I'm potentially making a life-altering decision about my future in soccer .

But just to this one thing you talked about that mirror moment with Rebecca , which Wait , wait , wait , coach , coach , you got to read it then .

Oh yeah , i was really surprised by the massive jump of not seeing Nate quitting The moment with his father got me . Jamie wearing Sam's real number really got me . They are going to bring this home , i really believe , and I love that series of them . First , because all the moments you mentioned got me . So I was like yes , yes , yes .

But one of the things I enjoy most about the show and that that area made me think about and I want to bring it back to where we were with your experience as a kid is that I feel like there were these moments that invited you to do what you have obviously done here and what we've done in many spots , to have our conversations Like , somehow , the way Ted

Lassler was created seems to be saying what do you think , how do you feel ? Was it like when you were a kid ? And I don't know how they're doing that quite the way they do it .

But when you sort of laid these out , i thought absolutely , and they made me think of very real things in my life that have happened or that I'm now sort of looking at in this moment , so I guess So what made me think of this is you're talking about that nine year old girl And I'm wondering Is there a mirror moment for you , whether in terms of soccer or

more broadly , that you would point to ? that like gives you the perspective to write that first paragraph ?

So I recently did like a trauma informed coaching program And we learned that some of the activations or triggers that we have stem from our childhood cells being frozen at a specific point in time In which something happened and a need wasn't addressed , and that need might not have been met by a parent or whoever else was important , a caregiver or something like

that in your life . And so , by the way , i'm going to jump in and say , as Jenna's saying this you have three heads like fully Boss is jumping out of her head is nodding so hard And but we're all like , yes , we get this , keep going , jenna .

That reminds me It's OK to be joyful and happy And sometimes you don't have to be so serious , because there are things like life is already painful enough And I want to be sometimes the kid that's sitting on the lawn playing with my hot wheel set You know , absolutely Fucking Lutely And sometimes that's the person that has to remind me , like , sometimes that's the

version of myself that has to hold my adult hand and not not the other way around , but but a lot of times when we do like this trauma work , we do inner child work , we are going back to a part of ourselves that's really scared , stuck , that we're trying to like be with as an adult and reparent in that moment and say I'm here for you , i see you , i

love you , like what , what do you need and how can I , you know , support you in this moment ? And how do I essentially reparent myself so that I can help this child move forward ?

This show was consistently demonstrated . It is deeply in tune with psychology meaning . Ted Lasso , reparenting and inner child work are principal tools and overcoming the needs that weren't met when we were kids . And we as individuals are the only ones who can give ourselves what we truly need . So that's a yes . That is a yes .

We as individuals are the only ones who can give ourselves what we truly need . Now I'm still laughing , because when you said you want to just play Hot Wheels , boss , like like a fire was lit in her eyes .

Once my nieces were born and there was a kid around And I took brought my college roommate , one of my best friends , to my sisters for a brunch once And I was like playing hide and go seek with a little kid and like being goofy and what , and she was like you don't play the fool for anybody , but like for the kids , you're willing to be an absolute

jackass . Like just make an ass out of yourself . And I was like , oh right , i do , i can do that . And so now I can't remember when it was , i feel like it was this year sometime before we started recording on a podcast , castleton asked me how I was doing it And I was like , well , i slipped in the shower . And he was like , oh shit , are you okay ?

And I was like , yeah , i was dancing to the Goonies theme song , so I'm fine . I just like , not the way you want to go . Not the way you want to go , but like I like that . You talked about that . You know , being goofy and not , i've always been too cool for school . I'm always like too cool to get involved .

I'm not a joiner And within the past few years it's really come out more that I'm like you can be a goofy asshole and it's fine . So I love that . Yeah , yeah .

This is a really big thing And I hate to even gloss over it because , again , it talks about agency and it talks about taking action for yourself , and it talks about prioritizing yourself , like I'm one of those people and coaches too , where we will .

Again , it's a God with partly God complex and it's partly some weird stupid shit that God knows what buried things are . It's like when people pleasers , go wrong , you know so it's like no , everyone . I'll tell you a story . This is a true story . I was two , two years old and I got for Christmas .

I had a big family , so I'm one of nine and then we always had aunts and uncles in the house because my mom was an immigrant and it was like a , like a , you know , like a bad movie with me growing up . It was like 32 because , like everybody , at 16 , balkis , wherever you .

You know it's crazy , but I got this huge candy bar for Christmas and I barely remember . I have only the vaguest memory of this happening And it was like a big Hershey's block where you know .

It was like little blocks where you could break them up And what I did was as little and I was so excited to get this , this chocolate , and my first reaction was I opened the whole thing up and I started breaking the blocks and walked around the room and gave them out to everybody .

So everybody had a block and it worked out perfectly that when I was done handing out the blocks , there was not one for me . This is a true story . And I just sat there and my mom was like she'd already popped the . I think I was .

She was the last one I gave it to and she already popped it in her mouth and she said , like there's this moment of realization when I was just like looking around them , like , oh my God , i have nothing Now . You would think that would have turned me into like a real selfish motherfucker , but for some reason it's just

. My natural thing is to give And sometimes , when you're like this , when you have that whatever , sometimes it can be a curtain . It's nice because I have a lot of friends and people like to be around me , because they can take my shit , apparently , but when you have this , you sometimes deprioritize your own needs and you're not .

You don't take the time to say , hey , listen , like I actually have to look and say , like what do I need ? We are the only ones who can give ourselves what we truly need . Jenna writes And yet we can fundamentally know this but not actually integrate this into our being . Okay , i'm just reading Jenna's email again .

This is the email that came in where I'm like what in the ? this is so amazing . I just loved every word of it . You don't get emails like this . I get emails like , hey , 30% off Verizon TV or whatever . I'm like this is amazing , right . And yet we can fundamentally know this but not actually integrate this into our being . That's a huge thing .

Coach talks about this all the time that you can . You can sort of be aware of it tangentially , but not integrate it , not know it , not actually incorporate it . Bosses and coach are both nodding . We will never be validated in all the ways we want from others . We can do a week , we won't . I'm I'm finding that right now reading this email .

I'm like oh shit , oh , it's like amazing Right .

So I was like , well , that's your time . And then , but I'd look it up and it'd be like , oh , i was in 95% tub and know that And in my , and the way I always told the story was oh yeah , i sucked at that race .

So that really says a lot , that that piece about the achievements , because even in terms of school , so much of what we do and I will say we because I fully participated is around what grade did you get right ? Who was on this ? you know this and on a roll or that on a roll .

And there really is something What I my big thing that my kids has been in . The kids I coach , i tell us to attitude and effort . Those are the two things I require you to show up with other than that is my job to teach you right . And if you show up with attitude and effort I know what I'm talking about We should be okay .

And I just think there's . I wish kids were told this in a way that the next wave of adults don't nod quite so knowingly when this point is being made , or if it's or it seems self-evident because you just cannot feel that whole right . I am , i am here to tell you good luck . You cannot do it .

It cannot be done , and the sooner people know that , i think the sooner you can do the work that allows you to be happy in a real way .

I didn't want you guys to catch me sleeping on the phrasing Wait before you go on , i just want you to know .

Like it's it's not going to go away , It's not going to feel better . You , what I did for decades was just ignore it . I was like , oh well , no , I'm . I remember about how I'm fixed . I'm fixed now , I'm fine , Everything's good .

And now I'm like , oh , I've got like craters all over the fucking place that I'm just like careful about and try not to bump into too much , but they're there and that happens in it . So I like acknowledging that too , that doing the work and healing and trying to heal isn't going to make you whole .

But knowing where those issues lie can give you some comfort .

So like , if you believe you're worth , like you know my business can make this much money , well , what if you hit that ? And now there's another belief that , like , i'm not worth more than this , this much , and so I'll never make that . So it's just , it's always there .

The work's always going to keep resurfacing in different ways or it's going to be presented in another way , and there's always going to be another layer . But you know , as long as we don't like hide and run away from the things that come up , then we will eventually get to the next .

Like I am still working on things that I have been trying to put right for years and it's coming , maybe , but it feels like working towards it at least is so much better than ignoring it or not trying to deal with it .

My academic career was very much different from everybody's here and that I went to college flunked out , didn't go back to college for a long time . Like it took me a very long time to finally get my undergrad And I now have a graduate degree , which is not because I'm fancy , it's only because accountants fucking need them . So it's fine .

But I still have like anxiety nightmares about not having completed my undergrad , even though I finished Seriously , yeah , even though you would think yes , really Like active nightmares , like right now in your life .

It is the lack of having that And realizing that that is part of my like inferiority complex and that people aren't judging me on the things that I'm judging myself on , it's like let it go because it's fine . So , yes , no , it takes forever , but keep working on it , it'll get better .

Watching with the kids was fun . But also , i was absolutely positively obsessed with Eddie Murphy , like he . Like he and his mother and I are the three people who brought , bought his R&B album . So that's . That's a fun fact about me .

It was one of our favorites , that and Marty in the USA .

Look at , look at a boss's face And as she gets more and more tired , it gets more and more crimson . So she was fully washed out . She looked like like a ghoul . Yes , yes , i did . When we first started . She was so she , because when we logged on , i said , oh boss , you look like real shit , He was like he looks terrible is what he said .

It's that when I go to bed , I like it to be at 60 degrees , whether that means that the heat goes all the way down to 60 or the air conditioner goes all the way up , And so it's really that my body is like hey bitch , you're supposed to be asleep and cold right now And you're not .

I'm going to want to stop you over two seconds but I'm not going to because I want to cover the information . So can you read the I remember 2016 and finish up or believe those things in the second pair . So two paragraphs . Could you do that ?

To say , wow , I'm prioritizing myself , i'm allowed to be selfish Now , i'm allowed to do the things that I want And no one's , even though , even if people are saying should , should , should , i can say , ok , i hear you , but that's not what I want .

So , growing up and being like a high achiever in a sport , and then you know you have to bring home A's , You have to , you know , enroll in this , this class . You have to , you know , get these grades in college . You have to get a degree in something practical .

You have to say , if you can't go on trips because that's not what you're supposed to do with money , you know all these things that you're consistently told , told , told . And especially when you stay in academia a really long time , people are going to just continue to tell you what to do .

And I didn't really have a career before academics . I took time off in between all the things I did , but I have three graduate degrees , so like I was pretty much in school from the time I was a kid until like Wait , what are your degrees in ? My first master's is a master's in public health and social behavior and community health .

My second master's is in exercise science because I was trying to transition into a PhD and I didn't have all the prereqs to get to UNC for a PhD in human movement science , which is my specialization , was exercise physiology .

But as I was which is why I was talking , harping on the strength and conditioning earlier and the importance of that But as I was like trying to get my research line off the ground at Old Dominion , i'm like I don't really like exercise physiology isn't me , it's not who I am .

I bring so much more to the table and I don't want to like pigeonhole myself and I don't want to do all these like studies with like you know anyway . So when I pivoted I came back to do another certificate , so like the amount of certificates and achievements , like just you know another line on a CV .

But I pivoted and got certified in the total worker health approach which is through the CDC And it's kind of looking at workplaces or worksites working with employers and saying , all right , this is like your worker at the individual level And it's kind of like a modified socioeconomic or social economic approach .

So you know economic , ecological model , where it's like you have an individual and you have like groups , and then you have like the enterprise , and then you have like society , and so like how can we look at an individual and say , we want to improve your well-being , but you know , a lot of that in the ether is , let's improve your nutrition and exercise , and

you know what . That's really not getting to the core of the issues that people have . Like a lot of people have stress related issues in the workplace . They're in environments that they don't find healthy . So what are the work conditions ? And what are some work conditions that , like , we can't modify And what are some work conditions that maybe we can modify ?

And then you know what are the greater contexts that all influence you . And it could be , you know , work-family conflict . It could be things that are outside of the home too , not just you know who you are at work , but how you show up at work .

So kind of looking at someone as a whole being in the workplace and not just slapping on a program that says like , hey , you know you're overweight or obese , you need to work out . Like that's probably not the issue . And overweight , honestly , we know that fitness is greater than fatness .

So for folks who you know are quote unquote overweight , obese , over the long run , as you get older you're going to lose muscle mass . Muscle mass is really important to maintain throughout your lifespan , and so when you're an older adult and you're frail , you're more likely to fall And you're more likely not to recover from a fall .

So you get a hip injury , you get a knee injury , you need a knee replacement , and so that deteriorates your quality of life long term .

So , regardless of your body composition , if you go on walks , if you do things that are physical , if you engage in activities that aren't necessarily going to the gym , your life will be better And those are important messages to tell people .

But it's also like , hey , you doing this doesn't necessarily address XYZ problems over here , and I think employers need to really embrace that , especially post pandemic , post people potentially having to leave the hybrid or working at home situation that they've found quite nice .

Some people liked it , some people didn't , but anyway , the workplace is such an interesting place . We work mainly with firefighters who have super interesting schedules 24 hour shifts .

They're on alarm response , so their sympathetic nervous system is probably jacked most of the time And there's a number of things that create create long term unhealthy workers So you can go into the fire service and be super healthy at the beginning . Sure , there aren't annual fitness standards that they need to adhere to , so that's an issue .

But there's a number of work conditions that we can't change . We can't change the fact that they have to wake up on a dime and leave and be out in their truck within like 10 seconds , maybe 30 seconds . So there's some things that you are working against consistently And that's what's really interesting with working with occupational populations .

You're going into a place and you're saying , okay , what is this person dealing with holistically at their job ? Like how are they showing up , how are they leaving , how are they interacting with their peers , how are they interacting with their supervisors ? So there's a lot of .

You know I'm not a psychologist and I'm not a sociologist , but there's a lot of psychology and sociology that really matter . Like that behavior part is really important among the other , like the physiology is also important and the work conditions are also important .

And I want to say that like that was really educational what you just talked about , but I think I covered like a really high percentage of it . a few episodes ago when I talked about that I had read about butt stuff online . And so I mean I just don't want to be redundant on this podcast . That's the only thing .

I'm really concerned about that , because I think most of the amazing , amazing things you've just said , i knew like a real total .

But I think a lot of times it's just like Hey , we love this content , this is what we think , and then they wrap . You know , people wrap it up in like an hour , hour and a half And like what's the social commentary ? I mean that's what I love about your podcast .

It's like I want to talk about the social commentary because it's meaningful And it has repercussions .

Yeah , i've done that for all like , and I've done because it didn't happen in real time with Lost , but I've done like Lost rewatch , podcasts and things like that . I did it with Westworld . The last season Westworld was a bit disappointing .

This is probably my favorite genre And there are a lot of societal things that you can say about science fiction and the themes that it brings up . But there's something about Ted Lasso that's , i mean , right at the base of it . It's what would it be like to live in a world where people are fucking kind to each other ?

Right , that's a science fiction Talk about some of this fiction .

You know because we've you know you've listened , but I've thought that there's a whole organizational development type . Look at Ted Lasso . And I do think it's incredibly important for people to recognize , because it's not as if we're making the subways feel this way .

It's been studied and there is an understanding that if people feel psychological safety , they're going to perform at a higher level And we sort of . There's like a romance around how much crap we can put people through and oh , i went through it , they can go through it too . And how much do you want it and all this kind of stuff .

And as a sports coach and you know revolving athletes at some point I'm all for putting players through it , i will put you through it mentally and physically , but it's all in the name of you being the best you can be when it's game time .

And what I don't like about a lot of the things that I see in the workplace is they seem actually counter to that They seem to be . How much damage can we do , and then keep the survivors And I just .

I'm not that's insane , but we do it . Yeah we do it all the time .

We want to help . What are the people that showed up to help And you're going to make us work 16 hour days because you won't hire somebody to fill the empty position , like the fuck is going on , But it's sad how many .

And if I had listened to everyone that told me what I should do , like I did for several , several years , I would continue to feel suffocated and trapped and oppressed and feeling like I don't have control or agency in my own life .

It's like , oh , i was promised a thing , there was a , there was a , i was , i was taught a ritualistic behavior , sort of code , and if I go along with that , if I acquiesce , if I check , check , check , check , check , hit all the check boxes that I'm supposed to , then I will have X result . Whatever that result is that promised result ?

And , yeah , the realization that that doesn't happen or it's not a promised , promised thing , has just I mean just crushed society And , in our lifetime the four of us here on this podcast every single foundational structure of our world has toppled every single one , every single one , and it used to be . you can count on the church , like supposedly right . No .

Oh . you can count on the military No . you can count on government The government's there to watch No , it doesn't matter where you can count it . organized sports No , you can count , it does not matter where you've looked . You can count on your parents right . You can count on school , you know , just do what you're supposed to .

So we have learned these lessons where we've had to adapt And some people are adapting . Listen , everybody does it at their own pace and they do it differently . And then the work that's involved , once you have some modicum of realization , happens at different speeds for different people And people .

rather than sometimes trying to do that work or recognizing exactly what you say in this email , Jenna , where you say you have to take agency , you have to take the initiative . you're the one that can heal this . Sometimes people will then check out , find a different coping mechanism , you know , sort of gloss everything over .

basically try to do the where you know if God , what's the line . you're going to know it better than I will , jenna , but it's like a cipher . Right , seifer was Joe Pantelliano's character in The Matrix , right , mm-hmm Seifer ? And he says what does he say ?

He says if it comes to the Matrix or the sludge or whatever more , if he gives me like , i choose The Matrix , you know what I mean .

Sure , Yeah , it was great back then , Andy Griffith . Anyway , it's fascinating stuff . I would love to hear in your voice these two paragraphs of your mind And yeah , it's beautiful .

I effectively entered the pandemic depressed . The world could no longer avoid how broken we were as a society . We are collectively traumatized . We as a society have suppressed identity expression in general , but specifically that black lives matter . We have ignored reemerging problems . Our obsession with celebrity , money and power is frankly revolting .

And don't get me started on working conditions . By March 2021 , my 95 year old grandma was ready to throw in the towel because she had enough of the world . Just as I was getting a grip on my own shit , my dad unexpectedly passed that July from a stroke as a consequence of having surgery to remove a benign brain tumor the size of a grapefruit .

I was beyond devastated . Pulling the plug on a loved one , even when you know it's the right decision , is not a position I wish on anyone . Roe v Wade was overturned the next summer . Is this a sick science fiction reality . Have we not learned anything ? What the fuck is happening ?

It gave me permission to be a mess , sort through my mess , appreciate and love my mess , create better boundaries , not feeling guilty for saying no to things . It forced me to recontextualize the relationships I can't run away from into something that prioritizes my own wellness .

Most importantly , it gave me the ability to not just know , but really feel deeply that my value is not derived from my looks , my relationship status or my productivity at work , regardless of how much the external world wants me to believe those things .

I'm trying to hold that . You and I , i guess , are both where our heart and our sleeve kind of people . Boss , on the other hand , was born without emotion , so she can kind of control a little bit better .

. The sort of slide here was , you know , when you chronicle all the different things , that sort of made us feel like we're in an alternate reality .

We talk about this a lot and you've heard us on the podcast where we're like , oh , remember the old movies that said , like we know , flying cars by like 2020 and it's like we can't even like even remotely solve like homeless problems , and you know , like what are we talking about ?

We're talking about just like basic things like workplace environments And so , anyway , torture . It's not . I always say how much I resent having to spend so much time , any percentage of my time , worrying about all the dumb shit that I'm like I don't want . I never wanted that , i never asked for any of this . I don't want this to be part of my daily life .

But here we are , this stuff . I really I thought it was beautifully put when you said the whole thing is beautifully put . This is . I can't even stress how much I adore this email , but this is such a great way to frame this .

When you're talking about the pandemic , you said it gave me permission to be a mess And I think , boy , that was profound And for the first time in human history , at least in the modern era , it gave everybody permission to sort of be a mess , and collectively .

And I think when you say , oh , some people love the pandemic and some people hated it , you know , i remember talking about how , when my autistic son had to go to virtual school , it was the greatest thing that ever happened And I was like , oh my God , this is amazing .

I have no like unstructured time in the lunchroom where I am confused and lost , you know . So different people hit different people differently . But it was really interesting during the pandemic how we were able to reframe like , oh , you know , i sort of enjoy this element of like , oh yeah , i can't go to your thing .

Like a social engagement , let's say that you wouldn't normally be able to get out of , and you just go , yeah . And then I remember thinking , i remember boss saying I'm never wearing a bra again . I remember boss saying that . And I remember thinking like I'm never going to a social engagement again , i don't want to go to , you know .

But so we had these moments and I love that . What you said about things being a mess , so , jen , i love what you had to say about that . I thought you really captured the feeling that we all sort of shared .

It gave me impression to be a mess , sort through my mess , which a lot of people didn't do Again , like it was an opportunity that I feel some people missed because like , yeah , no , we're all , some people wanted to do business as usual and we're sort of in denial about the oh yeah , i just can't wait to get back to the office .

It's like no , just take , this is a good time to just take your foot off the gas a little bit . You said it gave me impression to be a mess , sort through my mess , appreciate and love my mess . That is a whole other thing . That is a whole other thing .

And see , what fascinates me is the amount of work that you've done in a relatively short amount of time And yet you're so , whether it's good natured or so honest or so self aware , you're still like yeah , i'm still in the process . It's a you know , it's a whole journey . You're not like I got it . I think it's just kind of fascinating .

Create better boundaries , not feeling guilty for saying no to things . It forced me to recontextualize the relationships I can't run away from into something that prioritizes my own wellness . What even is that ? That's amazing .

I mean , that's a daily fucking practice to be honest with you .

I mean , let's just you know it's hard , sure , you know you live your whole life and you're just , you know , physically beautiful . You just say , hey , whatever , this is my turn .

But if you look at the beauty industry , like I think women should do whatever they want to do , but we have fueled the beauty industry so that women continue to put thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars into staying beautiful their entire lives And we were like why are we not questioning them ? Like it's a choice and that's great .

And if you , you know , want to do all these things , I think you should . And I've done some of those things and that's fine , You know . Like , you know , I have friends that do microblading their eyebrows because , you know , eyebrows are like back in back , cool again . You know what I mean .

There are , like people that you know get Botox and XYZ and that's all fine and great . But would those things be here if we weren't raised as children to believe that we have to stay beautiful our entire lives so we can make a man happy ? Yeah , Yeah .

Viola Davis posted something about how , at some point , i realized I'm the love of my life And I was like , fuck , yes , viola Davis , i'm bringing so much joy into my life And it's something that's so simple . But it's also something that women are constantly refusing to believe about themselves .

Like I shouldn't let anybody , including me , talk to me the way that I would not allow them to talk to my friend , like if I would stand up for you .

I understand that maybe it shouldn't be like you have to become a rich man to become successful , but fuck yeah , cher , you are a rich man Like I'm doing for me the things that people told me I should win a man in order to get him to do for me . So , like I , just cut out literally the fucking middle man and do it for yourself .

I mean gender roles are , you know , i think men were raised to believe that they have to stay in the masculine at all times , which is toxic , and you know , ted Lasso explores that , i think , quite well being vulnerable and like , and women you know we're .

The thing is like the workplace tends to be a highly masculine place , you know , you show up as a woman and a lot of workspaces and you're already at a disadvantage . And I'm obviously not mentioning the other disadvantage I'm a white woman for people listening , but , like there are of course , other people come with other disadvantages .

If you're not white , if you're of another race and ethnicity , you're coming with a disadvantage If you don't have , like , a specific education or a specific you know all those things you come to the table and you're already at a disadvantage .

So it's it's , it's one of those things where I I don't , i don't even know where I was going with this , no , but this is what happens when your podcast overflows .

You know , we have to be agreeable at all times because otherwise we're going to be a bitch .

under you first is not a man .

And then seeing someone in an outfit and being like they shouldn't be wearing that , like as a , as a teen , like who the fuck am I ? You know what I mean . Like I didn't know that , because that's the narrative , that I was told that I shouldn't be asking for it .

because , as one of the things I actually enjoyed and we talked a little bit about Rebecca and that with the little girl she progressively breaks more rules And as she does , her character in my estimation becomes like more full and more lovable , like I kind of adored the part of her and feminine .

Well , not saying that , like in masculine energy , you can't connect , but there's , there's an acceptance and like a warmth to showing up feminine and saying like I'm here to connect with you And we've we've talked about this in some of my training of like , showing up in masculine energy is very much like Earth energy , like I'm a tree , i'm gonna , i'm gonna be ,

you can lean on me , i'm stable , you can lean on me . Whereas the feminine energy is much more like inter interpersonal , like I'm here to connect with you , to see you , to hear you , to feel you , not just like I'm here to like , keep a stable container for you . Of course , there's like more nuance to it than that .

what you just described are all attributes that are necessary to execute total football Right , and so there's something about the rigidness of that's your position . You stay right there . I'm going to put Obesanya back on defense , where he belongs . That's tree Right , and that's what you've described is much more . This is a racist , yeah where he belongs .

It feels like there's something about being complete people that we're talking about on all these levels , right As we're talking about how people are showing up in the workplace , like allowing people to be complete people , because people say , like , bring your full self to work And I know there's some pushback on that And what's meant isn't , you know , bringing your

Bluetooth speaker and you know , playlist of your favorite band . It's like no , how do you ? you know , how do you show up ?

And I think to say to anyone you need to show up more masked and more feminine as opposed to you need to show up more fully , you , so that we can really get not just the most out of you but almost an optimized performance out of you , because you're bringing a piece that no one else can bring .

but you were talking about your research opportunities and you said , like you know , i realized no , i have more to bring to the table . And I'm like , oh my God , i was watching coaches . I'm like , can you imagine , coach , if you ever had that ? Like I have , no , i have more to bring the tip .

Just like something internally to say , like advocating for yourself on that level . And it's just a throwaway for Jenna because of all the work she's done . Cause , like that's just like , oh , it's an understood thing . Like I actually have more to bring to the table . Like I'm not sure I've had that feeling .

A lot of us are living in our heads and I spent most of my life living in my head And I'm just learning how to reconnect with my body and like what my body's telling me and you know , not to override some of the sensations that I feel in my chest or my gut or XYZ , and why some of those things are there , and so , like talking about even going back

to the feminine , masculine , like those can be really powerfully positive , like you can be wonderfully earth and that be positive . Of course there's like a toxic side to that . There's a toxic side And I don't even want to say toxic . There's strengths and weaknesses .

You're saying that I love coach's take on it where he's like , yeah , like , be the essential , you be like the , you know , vibrate on your highest level . Coach .

You were alluding to some of the specific Ted Lasso stuff , things that commentary from Jenna And I just want to quickly I'm going to just blast through some of her thoughts about the show because I have a couple . I want to set this up , jenna , because I want to ask you a few questions before we finish , about Ted Lasso specifically .

Well , i mean , they're an amazing team , obviously , but I , i , as soon as like I , i prophesize that pep was going to show up in the season . I'm like there's no way pep doesn't show up The minute he showed up , i'm like Arsenal is going to fucking lose .

I knew it And I was so pissed off , but but I love Ted Lasso forever , but I'm going to hold that grudge for you Not wrong ?

But I'm going to read from from the email quickly You wrote season one of Ted Lasso is by far the most rewatchable of all

the seasons . It dropped the first summer of the pandemic . There aren't huge cringe worthy moments , but boss is going to definitely not along with this , because that's her , that's her season . Everything else has been . What do they call it ? Le Petit ? What's the it's called ? it's like the word for an orgasm French term .

Honestly , i don't remember much from that time , apart from Ted Lasso rewatching Harry Potter movie marathons and shamefully eating my way through too many full-size double-stuffed Oreo packs .

I think Boss is so much farther down the road on that . She's really really magnificent at this and OK with it . I tend to be one of those people that , like , if I set a boundary , it feels mean . Like a boundary is mean .

And when you say you're recovering , people please are I'm just really going to ride in your jet wash and try to pick up tips because I still have trouble with that . Like boundary setting , which is so healthy and I know academically , oh yeah , no , that's really healthy . I still struggle with those beats .

It helped me work through the fact that anger is an acceptable emotion . Oh God , this is so good , all of this is so good . It helped me work through the fact that anger is an acceptable emotion and needs to be processed just like the other emotions .

Again we talk about there's three rage junkies on this fucking podcast , so like that hits home with all of us . There's a lot of nodding going on here . Coach or Boss , do you want to comment on anything with that ?

I was angry and I went off And there's something about shaming that kind of thing that I find intensifies it And actually a lot of the recent work I've done . I'm a connector to where you are , but I just had a real response to that line .

A lot of my recent work has been around saying you know , all we do is yell at that guy , as I think of the different guys in my life , all we do is yell at that guy . He always shows up , he never lets anybody mess with a seven-year-old And far from kicking him off the team , he should probably be teed-captured .

Everybody seems to fight for this team like this guy , and once I was able to come to that , a lot of other things made a ton of sense . And then , because I wasn't saying no , shut up , just shut up , just shut up , just shut up .

He got to speak up before things were so insane that I'm , you know , like screaming my head off because , like this , it's like so .

I just I think it's so important for people to think of their emotional work this way , to really think about the fact that you have a feeling and then you need to deal with the feeling and then you can respond to the situation . And that gap is you know what my influence is about .

All these things are about , and , yeah , like logically , does it make sense to me ? Sure , but the more recent work made it less about oh , deep breath , count to 10 , don't be mad , and more about really working through . If he's jumping off the bench , it's probably because there's some bullshit going on on the court . So what do you see ?

And then we can deal with that .

And you know , my dad like always showed like a level of anger was always okay for my dad to show . You know , he's a male and I was the good little girl , but not necessarily towards me , just towards like don't get him on a soapbox about Republicans . He would like lose his shit .

And when I started to like work with anger and be like , oh , this is here , okay , i'm going to try to , or if someone else shows up angry , i'm not going to take it personally , like they're directing at me , they're angry , they're allowed to be angry and they have something to communicate to me and maybe they can't communicate it right now .

And so some people need space . And I would always hate when people would be like I need to walk away from the situation . I'll be like no , like we have to resolve it right now , like that's , i don't want to break connection , because breaking connection is scary .

And now you're introducing a fear into my life that , like we might not come back from this stupid argument , right , and like that's an unfounded fear in a lot , of , a lot of times . Sometimes it's a real fear .

But being able to say , okay , like and this happened recently with someone that like we disagreed , we both had valid points but we couldn't like our communication , we weren't meeting like eye to eye , and we're both like almost like yelling , like you make good points , but I am still hurt , you know .

So I had , like I had to step away and it's like you know , i ruminate on it , like how do I send the text to mend the bridge , or how do I and I have to consciously be like , no , don't send the text , sit with it until you're really ready to have a conversation where you're not activated , and that is so , so difficult , but it always has .

Like , since I've been doing that , it's always worked out that I can come back and have those better conversations , Even though I so desperately want to stay and , like , work it out in the moment . Yeah you know , I have trouble with that disengaging .

But , boss , when she talks about how she rejects certain societal norms , when she talks about how she has done the work to like , consider this in her own life and make changes on her own and and like she lives them , it's not bullshit , she lives those changes . I watch her do it and I go my God , i don't even have one iota of competency in that .

In that , in that arena , i go this is amazing . Then I listen to , i listen to coach . It's true And really just true , and it's not meant to be self deprecating . It is where I am on my journey And I work really hard .

But here's the thing When I hear Jenna and I hear coach OK , coach is talking about Jenna out of curiosity , real quick , have you ever done EMDR ? Because , coach , just you have . Ok , all right , all right . So maybe this is where I have to go . I'm not going to do it , i'll just say it . But I'm too scared .

I'm too scared of the people who have done it in my life . I'm like they're like holy fuck , coach . When he did EMDR , he's like I feel like I lost 20 pounds of what did you say , coach ? I lost 20 pounds of shame . Yeah , so maybe I need it . Maybe this is in my future .

Coach talks about the different people in his life , different versions of his personality , and , jenna , you're talking about individual children , not just one .

Individual children that you've had relationship And I feel like when I try to imagine that in my life , i feel like whatever those people are that are inside me are on a bus , that whenever I like a school bus , like a yellow school bus , and whenever I go to the door , everyone goes . I'm like who's inside me ?

I have no fucking idea The fact that you guys see it with such clarity . I'm like who are these people ? You guys are ? it's like a . It literally feels like superheroes to me where I go . How are they this self aware ? How have they done this much work ? It's almost like a Sisyphian from my perspective .

So I'm like I'm pushing this fucking rock somewhere , but not a whole lot's happening And maybe all I have is the desire and the fortitude to try to at least make this podcast happen so that better people than me can put a really amazing message into the world .

But I really mean it from the bottom of my heart And I know I'm speaking for other people out there like me who listen , who you know . You do the work and sometimes it doesn't . You don't have that crystal clarity that some of you , that you three , have , and it's .

It is wildly impressive to hear and to see and to see the result of a tremendous amount of focused work in areas that , specifically , are generally not taught by either society or school or parents or you know .

These are things you've had to personal growth , things that you've had to come across on your own and decide to do and take the agency to do on your own .

I have my own feelings about some of those conversations , but I do think there's value . Um , i saw a meme once uh , John Lennon , it could be apocrys , it could be complete BS .

I mean , you know , i've seen quotes from Abraham Lincoln too , um , but but the point is the internet sucks , um , so , but I think there's something that he said um , oh , people , when I was a kid , somebody asked me what I wanted to be when I grow up And I told them who I want to be . Do you mean who I want to be ?

And they said you don't understand the question . And I said you and you don't understand life , and that seems like a lot for a little kid to rip off .

So that's why I was like I don't know about that , but the , the message within it , did speak to me , which is why aren't we talking to kids more about who you are Right , like when you're going through that , uh , as a teenager .

Rather than market right Like , really think about like okay , if that's what you're bringing to situations like , what does that mean for you ? How are you fitting in ?

And when you were telling me uh , in black culture , right , this is a black versus white thing .

So yeah , but I think that's a powerful idea . I really do love that idea of telling somebody like yeah , do your thing , man , that's how you do it .

But we all have them And so and I particularly like had some intense therapy sessions where we talk about , like you know , we all have like a victim inside of us or we all have a people pleaser , we all have , you know this , that the other thing inside of us , and so say that someone like like I identify more with a victim than the oppressor inside of me .

And how do I like know , when I'm in victimhood , like that's like I mean difficult , really difficult , to look inside and say , okay , all the things you know that I went through in my doctoral studies or this , why X , y , z , like where am I living in ?

like a space where my victim is staying in victim , and the other part , and I'm not in my adult self , i'm not in my full , authentic , adult self , because who we want to be , the best version of us , is already inside of us , right ? So when we say I don't know who I want to be , or I want to get to the person I want to be .

It's like it's here .

But the parts of yourself are the patterns that emerge to protect you and they protected you at a certain time in your life and they don't .

You don't necessarily need the protection as an adult , and so you have to , as an adult , say , okay , rodman , like I let you out , you did your thing , thank you for doing your thing , i have gratitude for you , but you got to go back inside , because now adult self needs to step forward .

And so not shaming those parts of you , but really like living in gratitude and saying you serve a purpose in my life and I don't always need you , and when I need you , like thank you for protecting me , thank you for doing that Coach ?

He's like oh man , you full

of shit . So that is that is Jenna quoting back something that happens internally in you over in Los Angeles .

But what is it about this show that specifically draws out this range of and depth of conversation and exploration ? Like I , i do think that's a specific thing .

There's shows I've watched where you get to a certain moment and people debate you know well , should they choose to leave town or should they stay , and right , but I'm , but it's more , it's more than that , and I think it wouldn't make sense for us to go into all these areas , even with some of the best shows that have ever been on .

But I , it's not the same .

Cause you don't want to be in charge , don't be in charge , but you can't tell Sawyer not to do shit on him .

Okay , that's where I stopped . It helped me work through the fact that anger is acceptable . Oh , no , i did this too . Anger is an acceptable emotion and needs to be processed , just like other emotions . And while it didn't teach me anything , i didn't know which I thought was a specific line for Boss , cause Boss is .

I was like , come on , guys , like you fucking don't want to be nice , like before Ted Lasso . And I was like , no , i didn't , boss . So it helped me integrate that that knowing into my being . Integration is a whole . I mean , it's just amazing .

Of course , i did the heavy lifting for myself , but Ted Lasso made me feel connected in a way that I really needed . Ted isn't perfect . He doesn't always make the right choice , yet everyone has grown in his presence . We talked about the ripple in the pond and that he is the . He's the the sort of prime mover for this show .

Yet everyone has grown in his presence and and has been shown alternate ways of thinking , and parentheses Stay curious and acting , and parentheses as choosing compassion . This show is aspirational aspirational and it's somewhere I feel seen , i feel safe and I feel that my values are mirrored and valued equally . Now I want to continue before we comment .

Season three has continued to show us that while most of us strive to do right , we misstep , overreact , overcorrect , avoid and can be controlled by our emotions . The list goes on .

While the show chooses to show us things we don't like , eg Keely isn't where we'd like her to be , crushing her career and living in her confidence among other characters who could also be doing better .

We have to accept that she is experiencing some large life altering moments that are shifting how she perceives herself , and I don't doubt that she will come into her own .

I know critics and naysayers want the characters to be perfect , the show to be perfect , for it to reflect our expectations of anticipated storylines , all while subverting tropes , but it would be silly to say we all haven't been shaken before we met our own success . Whatever that looks like for us , i trust the creative vision .

It's almost the TV series viewing of that , an example being that I actually didn't mind and I'm curious what you thought In terms of a storytelling piece . I didn't mind that Jamie and Rory screwed up specifically the way they did , and so to me that was an example of that Where people fall off man People .

You know they're heading a certain way and you think they got it . I actually have some good thoughts around that , but I'm wondering where you saw that there , or do you feel like there's that connection there , or were you pointing in another direction ?

I even thought Zava was going to leave or get injured , and that's how he's going to leave . That's why I thought too . I had already thought . So I was pleasantly surprised with certain things that happened in a way I didn't expect , but I was like , oh , they did that And that's cool And I get that .

And with the Roy and Jamie , their relationship has been absolutely like the highlight of the series I think , and Jamie's arc is by far the best . I mean , i love Rebecca's arc but as far as going from zero to hero like Jamie's arc is definitively , i think , the best . Instant caramel . What did you say ?

So I'm not surprised at all that they reverted into this mode where they're like we have to fight for her honor . I do think it's a back step . I don't think it was completely out of character for them . I had hoped for Roy and Keely together . But after seeing I've watched every episode , by the way I finished the episode I rewatched it immediately .

So I watch it twice back to back . And then I watch it the next day , so a third time . And then the guy that I'm dating he doesn't have Apple And so when he comes over on the weekend we rewatch it again . So at a minimum I'm like watching every show episode four times .

I mean , she'd kind of started to get to where I thought she'd be in the last-ish episode , but I thought that arc would happen sooner And so it didn't feel right for her to end up with someone based off where she ended , and I wanted her to be in her confidence in herself and being like I fucking rock , i'm killing it at my job .

This is fucking women's team , let's go . Let's bring it to Richmond , yeah , so I could . In retrospect , i'm fine with it , but it's not what I expected .

But I understand why the writers gave that to us , why they wanted to go make that plot decision .

I feel like that is very different from I'm sorry to pick on them , but Ted and Rebecca didn't get together and so I am pissed off Because I'm like guys you can't like if they don't give you the show that you wanted , you make the show that you want Like this is their show .

I feel like there's some legitimate criticism about did we see enough of Nate's redemption arc and should we have seen Colin coming out to his team ? Like I think that there are questions about the choices made . But when you say the plot should have been different , i'm like well then you got to do fanfic . Like I don't know what to tell you .

If you want a different story , write a different story .

I think and I think maybe you guys brought this up The issue with Nate is they went too hard in season two Yep , absolutely , And so like , and then tried to like overcorrect and it just felt uneven . And if they had pulled back a little bit on his descent in season two , then maybe waiting till the very end in season three would have made more sense .

But it didn't feel . Yeah , it didn't feel balanced the way that it happened . I knew he was going to get back . Like I knew that that's probably what the writers wanted And I actually loved the way that it played out with Beard .

He you know he hasn't forgiven And like he's not even on that level . He has played in a different game . He did , he actually did forgive And he needed Nate to forgive himself and Beard was the ultimate protector and you know , ride or die . Like how dare you do this to my person ? This is , this is my ride or die , how dare you ?

So I didn't even know that needed to happen And then when I felt it , i was like , oh , that makes I guess that makes sense . Like I guess , that makes sense , but I didn't see it that way in my in my head when I projected it .

I got , i and and and found myself I don't know I really connected with Beard there and realized that that's there's a thing I used to say jokingly about my kids is something about you that really annoys me about me , and I think there's , like you know , like I think in watching the show and even watching Beard , he has carried what he did to Ted all this

time And so part of his protectors like pennants you know what I mean Like he's he's paying for it , and I and I thought about the fact that , yeah , that's probably true in life , it's probably part of me , if I really dig all the way through it that you know reacted to Nate's betrayal of a mentor , because there was a time when maybe I wasn't didn't do the

best by my mentor , or you know what I mean Or there was some other situation where , like I could have stood up or where I gave away a piece of information that wasn't mine to give , or you know , and I and I thought the show did a good job of sort of saying , you know , slow down , you know , and and Ted's pretty consistent about that , by the way , he

talked about that when , when Becca's dad dies he talks about . You know , we all do good things , we all do bad things . I don't really get this whole some go to heaven , some go to hell thing . That doesn't seem . But yeah , i I would like to carry that specifically forward As you talk about the things that impacted you from the show .

I would say , just reminding myself , and certainly when I sometimes talk about world affairs , i don't know if I could rival your dad , but we could always get together and see . But I cannot go on some pretty pretty lengthy and intense rant about the state of the world And it would do me some good to remember that .

You know , even if what I'm saying about Kevin McCarthy is true , like for some Christmas he got a bike and he wrote it and he had fun and somebody of his you know what I mean Like , whatever the story is , he's a human too And I think it's easy to lose all that and just make the person the worst thing they've ever done .

I will say that , jenna , this we've done many , many , many episodes , but this has been my personal favorite . I just , i just , i didn't know , i just didn't know , that what I needed tonight was coach , coach , boss and doc , And I am just absolutely delighted that you took the time to come on here .

I want everyone to know that I told Jenna Hey , you got a half hour .

if you ever need a best friend , i am available . Thank you so much for taking the time . Thank you for answering the call . You know some people when you say , hey , you want to come and just bear your soul with strangers , to other strangers around the world , they don't . it can be a very sort of daunting task , but you have been remarkable So far .

I knew you were great and I and I loved your emails and I and I read I get to . so this is what this is what this is what I want . This is what I want personally from this podcast . This is what means , this is what's important to me . These are moments that are profound and they resonate and everyone can tell that we really mean it .

You know what I mean . Like the one thing you can get from this project , like we're not faking this . This is what we love And we had the sense in . when I read your emails to coach and and and boss , i get giddy . I just and it's not just you , i love your emails .

We have other listeners to come in and they send us the most amazing things And we feel , you know , undeserving of all this kindness and and inspiration and wonder . But we're so happy that somehow we're at the , at the the , the eye of the eye of the storm on this one . We are delighted that we were able to find you through this , a show , a TV show .

This is like what's amazing , right , i mean , but but had we had this podcast for lost , maybe we would have found you then . And had we had this right , if we had it through Game of Thrones , maybe we would have found you .

So I'm like there are , there are all of us around the world are searching for something , the people that that we connect with through this podcast . we're on the same sort of hunt and some same sort of journey and same sort of search And , luckily for us , this has been the mechanism where we all sort of find each other .

I will , i will tell you that , if you're up for it , this will not be the last time that you come and grace this podcast with your presence . If , if you're up for coming back , we will absolutely make that happen .

I love you guys having real conversations . I love that you don't all share the same opinions but you do come together on a lot of things that I think truly do matter at the heart of the show And it's just so refreshing and it's wonderful to be here with you , love to come back . Thank you . This has been great .

And so he said , all right , we're going to , we're just , we're just . It's actually true , it's crazy . And so we decided you know what next week will be a perfect week to just just sort of ease out of it for a tiny , for just a few weeks , sorry , just a few days .

And but I want to tell you that next week we're doing something for the first time in the history of of this podcast , which is we are going to have a virtual meetup . And what that means is we have sent out an email to the butter cups and we are we're trying to figure the exact time next week , but we're honing in on it .

It's that , believe it or not , when you send out an email to the butter cups , this is so crazy to us because we can't coach , doesn't even think , anyone listens to us . But you know , i sent , i sent out , i said , hey , butter cups , we're going to all get together and and hang out virtually .

And then we get , you know , people in Europe saying , oh great , sure I'm in . And then you have people like in Australia going , all right , i'm in . And you go , oh shit , we got . This is going to be a little bit of a . We have to make sure that we pick the right time . So we're figuring out the time , but next week we will be meeting up .

It's butter cups only . So the way , the way you get to be a buttercup is you jump into the description and in the show and you can just sponsor us . It's as little as three bucks , like $3 gets you into the virtual meeting . It's . I know it sounds like a crazy pitch , but it really is something that means a lot to us .

We just know that you're sort of in it with us and this is how we met Jenna and this is how we met so many of our amazing butter cups . And so if you're interested and you want to be part of that , please look in the description of the show and and and become a sponsor . Jenna , you're going to be there , right .

Coach , where do people find you if they want to find you ?

So , boss , I'm sorry , I'm just an opportunist , and what can I say ?

Other people are doing other better writing , so go there still .

And you know this , we don't talk about the blog very much because people get weirded out when you cross the streams , but like the blog staff , the staff of writers we have there are just like what we have on this podcast , just like like they're all smart , they're all funny , they're all intuitive and insightful and amazing and they're just the best people .

And so I'm a huge corporate culture person and a huge like team builder , and so we made sure that the people in that room and that writer staff are just the best Like .

I remember when coach went there for the first time , he was like oh , this is special , like this is something spent , like holy shit , and this is just something that is really , really important to me . And so if you , if you get a taste of that here , we hope you visit us at the , at the blog . Once again , thank you to Jenna .

God , jenna , we love you so much , and long live the queen . Oh my God .