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see all the details there. And we would love to have you now. on to this week's episode of The Tech Ed podcast. Welcome to the tech guy podcast. It is Matt Kirchner, your host where we love anything related to technical or STEM education at any level of education literally K to gray. Anytime we're talking about science, technology, engineering and math in case in technical or community colleges, in our high schools, in our universities or in the workforce that is one of our absolute
favorite topics. This episode will certainly hit that mark. My guest on this week's episode of The Tech Ed podcast is a former member of the US House of Representatives now, the president of Augustana University in South Dakota. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin. Thank you so much for being with us on the tech ed podcast.
My pleasure, Matt, thanks for inviting me on to the podcast. And
I know our listeners are really fired up to hear about your background, hear about how that influences the work that you're doing as a president of a significant University. Let's start there, former member of the United States House of Representatives, I'll admit that we talked to a lot of presidents, we talked to a lot of Chancellor's, we talked to a lot of provost of higher education. We certainly talked to a number of people in the public policy space, including congressmen and senators and
governors and so on. I gotta say, this is the first time we have a former member of Congress, who's now a university president. So tell us a little bit about your background and how that history at the federal level influences the work you're doing now at Augustana. University.
I appreciate that question. I had the great honor of representing the entire state of South Dakota, in the US Congress, because our population base is smaller than a lot of states. And so I was an at large district, there are just a handful of states that based on population have the one member in the US House along with the two senators in the other
chamber. And it allowed me to really know my home state of South Dakota, even more deeply the diverse economic interests, both in the eastern or western side of the state, the folks in rural communities, how they may have perspectives on different issues, those involved in agriculture versus those in our growing cities, mid to larger
sized cities. It was a great honor, I think it has taught me the importance of listening well, and how you take what you're hearing from different stakeholders and constituent groups, how to influence legislation in ways that are good for the state, good for the region and the Upper Great Plains, and certainly good for the country, and balancing the different interests at play. And that's constantly a play in a university environment as well. Certainly,
as soon as we talk about your great state of South Dakota, and as you know, I have numerous connections to that state, both personal and business interests and and I love the state of South Dakota, spent a tremendous amount of time there. And you're right, it is a diverse state, you spend time in places like Sioux Falls, which is increasingly urban and feels even more urban today than it did 20 or 30 years ago when I started visiting so tremendous growth in that part of your
state. But then as you travel west to places like Watertown and Rapid City and I actually, on my way out to Idaho last year spent a day at Terry peak skiing, just a really, really diverse state, I did not realize I'll admit that there's a single seat in the House of Representatives representing South Dakota, which is
interesting. In my home state of Wisconsin, I think we have nine congressional districts and two senators, in your case, two senators and a single member of Congress, but I've got to believe that to your point, Stephanie, listening to the individuals across your state listening to diverse interests, carrying you know, as close as you can to a single voice representing an amazing state like South Dakota, to the US Congress really gives you that skill and that ability to to
find consensus to really understand what's important to drill down on what's important. And to your point, that's really equally as important as running a university as it would be in representing your state in the House of Representatives. So it is an interesting process. Access going from the US House to leading an institution of higher education. So tell us about that transition, what led you into an interest in in leading an institution like Augustana university?
Well, before deciding to run for Congress the first time when I was only 31 years old, I was laying the groundwork to be a professor to be a professor of government or to be a professor of law. And my professional journey just took some different turns. And that's what a liberal arts education I think, helps prepare graduates to do is to navigate both professional anticipated or unanticipated developments over the course of one's career or in your personal
life. So before coming to Augustana, after I left Congress, I did serve as general counsel and Vice President for Corporate Development at Raven Industries, a technology and manufacturing company publicly traded headquartered here in Sioux Falls. And the first intern that I hired, as I established a new legal department was a student at Augustana, I had worked with a lot of people from Augustana, over the years, had some family connections here at the
university. And he remembered from a conversation over lunch during his internship that I had mentioned that I had thought my career would be in education would be in higher education as a faculty member. And unbeknownst to me, he nominated me to be president of Augustana. And I love that part of this journey, because it reinforces the importance of intergenerational learning of regardless of our life stage being open to change and discernment. And where we can
serve and have impact. And so that's where I feel like I've come full circle back into higher education where I thought I would be, but my professional skills and experience make me better qualified as an administrator than as a faculty member.
So we covered a lot of ground in that last answer, certainly, and I was aware that you do hold a lot of grief, which I'm sure influenced both you're working in the US Congress, your work in manufacturing and technology, by the way, which are near and dear to my heart, our listeners know that I spent 25 years as chief executive of manufacturing companies here in my home state of Wisconsin and around the
Midwest. We love technology here. So we could probably do a whole episode just on the role of General Counsel of a manufacturing and technology company, but then having that experience, influence the opportunity here at Augustana.
University, and really interesting that, you know, going from thinking, hey, it might be kind of cool to be a member of faculty to now being a president of the entire institution, talk to a lot of folks that run institutions of higher education, and that usually the track isn't quite
that fast. So so really, really cool path into the role that you have now, Stephanie, you know, your your answer was a little bit reminiscent of a conversation that I had with Dr. Mike Lovell, who's the president of my alma mater, Marquette University in Wisconsin, and we had him on the podcast a couple of years ago, it really talking about the value of liberal arts education, and I think a lot of times, and we're gonna get into this, we don't necessarily think about the importance of liberal
arts when we think about STEM education. But But I point to courses that I took in college like theology like philosophy that they really teach you how to think and how to communicate, and give you an understanding of your position in the world. So I'm looking really forward to in a moment, getting into this conversation about STEM and liberal arts and so on. Before we do that, I would just love to hear how this background now so it brought you to this position of president of Augustana
university. But how does that backroom ground as an attorney, as a business leader, you know, as a government official, how does that influence the way you think about the role that you have now? Well,
I do think that the blend of skills and experiences from being in the public sector and very public facing as a member of Congress, and then being a corporate executive, not just as general counsel, but with the CEOs executive team, always thinking about strategy, about how the markets that we were serving, you know, I did a lot of m&a work at Raven. And for me, then to come to Augustana to blend those skills, both of operating a university and the importance of process and policy
in an academic enterprise. But also just strategic thinking of positioning in your community in your region, based on your strengths. And at Augustana. We've always done a great job of blending the liberal arts core with pre professional professional programs. And we can talk more about that in a
minute. But I don't think I could have done the job as well here now in my seventh year without those five years at Raven, in terms of some of the fundamentals operationally and finance, corporate policy and governance that really helped me I think in building a leadership team, as well as identifying priorities and how to engage a community in the academic enterprise in strategic planning and identifying the strengths the weaknesses, the threats and the opportunities. No, I
love the fact that you point to that experience and Raven and the understanding of things like m&a, like strategy, like building consensus, like being able to read financial statements, and so on. And I think a lot of times, in business leaders, you may be in some ways, the leader of a business makes the job look easy. And you think that that's that, you know, that person that maybe just gets to sit in the office and issue directives and
so on. I know, and certainly, you know, from your experience, that it is far from that and to be a good leader, whether it's in, in the private sector, whether it's in a private university, or really any other organization, having that well rounded understanding of the entire organization. Super
important. You talk about understanding the strengths of the university and using some of your prior experience to pull out those strengths and to leverage what you know, you're good at what are those core competencies, so familiarize us a little bit more with the University of itself, geography, programming degrees, students, and so on. Let us learn a little bit about Augustana. Thank
you. So Augustana University is located in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, the state's largest community, as you referenced, the community of Sioux Falls has doubled its population over the last 30 years. And I think that is helping Augustana Buck some of the trends in enrollment where we've been able to grow enrollment steadily over the last handful of years save for what we all experienced. During the pandemic, we have about 2150 students currently undergraduate and graduate, about 850 of those
are undergraduate students. And our aggressive goal within our Viking bold 2030 plan is to grow enrollment to 3000. By the end of the decade, that was aspirational. When we adopted the plan in 2019, the hurdle of the pandemic, we do think, though, that we can get close by 2030. And we will get there within a few years after that based on about 2100 to 2200 undergraduates to grow that number, and we think we'll get
to 2000 this fall. And then to continue to grow that graduate number, both in online and hybrid programs that we offer at the graduate level, also some four plus one options to grow that to six to 800 graduate students. And we serve students at the undergraduate level from over 30 states in our country, and over 50 international
countries. So we have about 210 international students about 11% of our undergraduate student body, and great strategic partnerships in the community that helped us with experiential learning for those students
in his aspiration in the school to by 2030, which is now some six years away to grow the student body to 3000 students, we love goals like that, right? I love that focus on growth, you talked about the pandemic and some of the challenges that that put on not just Augustana university, but institutions of higher education, literally across the country and around the globe, not the only challenge that has faced or will face the world of
higher education. You know, I spent a lot of my time, as I suggest talking with leaders of the universities and technical colleges, and so on. And I know something that is on the mind or just about all of them is nothing driven by necessarily what they're offering or how they're performing or what their vision is. But it's just
demographics. And that is we look back to that period of time, right after what's commonly called the Great Recession, that 2008 2009 2010 period of time, when the birth rate in the United States, for lack of a better term just fell off, right? I mean, so there was a significant decrease in the number of births, those students now would all be becoming post secondary age here over the course of the next several years. We call that the enrollment cliff in the world of
higher education. And the whole idea is that there's just fewer students to draw from as we look at growth. So not only do you have this aspirational goal of reaching 3000 students, but demographics aren't necessarily in your favor. So talk a little bit about how, as a university president, you're thinking about the enrollment cliff and what you need to do to overcome it?
Well, I'm very familiar with the demographic cliff because I have a freshman in high school, my son is a freshman in high school. So he is right, sort of in that group where we have your high school students across the country, that all of these colleges and universities are competing to enroll. And we think of it not only as an enrollment Cliff mat, but as a
consumption cliff. Because of those high school graduates for which there are fewer, then there are even fewer of them who are thinking about post secondary education, either because of workforce opportunities, right where they can get a good paying job right out of high school, family needs, where they need to contribute to the family budget, they don't have financial resources to attend school right away, whether it's a two or four
year program. And so we view it as how do we again, we position Augustana with those two cliffs as we see them, and I think there are key factors and how we're doing it with more app Demmick programs that they're interested in that are interdisciplinary, and giving them financial support to be able to access an education here at Augustana. There's a great book that you're probably familiar with called the great upheaval by Arthur Levine and talks about all the disruption
in higher education, right. And some of the really important things he identifies in some of the folks that have been in higher education for years of how you get through this time and thrive through it, and
community partnerships. He calls it reconnecting with the street, your community and strategic partnerships are going to be so important, especially in those STEM fields, those technical technology driven, how fast it's changing in the workplace settings, and how you prepare students and graduates for what they're going to encounter and the importance of a faculty professional development, to take their expertise in their disciplines to partner and understand what skills we need
to integrate into the curriculum or other experiences on campus, or in internships and the like, to best prepare them for the jobs of the future. And so we've done a lot with faculty professional development, we've done a lot with new programs like financial technology, where we secured a gift from a financial services company here in Sioux Falls, empowering some of our academic leaders to innovate around multimedia entrepreneurship, another example of an interdisciplinary
offering. And then that Doctorate of physical therapy program, and we have partners in each of those new programs, whether it's avid Pro Tools, whether it's evidence in motion, whether it is the financial services, path, word, and some others that serve on our advisory board. But that's how we're positioning. And I think that's how we're bucking the trend, both with the academic offerings, the partnerships, and the scholarship support.
I love the way that you're you're dialing in on a few key strategies, there are certainly academic offerings. And to your point, we are seeing huge changes in the perceptions of the value of higher education. I'm still a huge fan, although I'm also a big believer that not everybody needs to or should go on to a four year university, lots and lots of options. And it's really about what is right for the
individual. But really, this whole conversation around making sure that academic opportunities, post secondary lead to a rewarding career and actually have that ROI really important. You talk about the great support sounds like you're getting from your community, and there isn't a university, public or private, that doesn't rely significantly, whether it's on alumni, whether it's on local, or regional companies that have a vested interest in the success of the university really
important. I also love your reference to lifelong learning, especially on the part of faculty, you know, we think about lifelong learning in business, we think about it in manufacturing, and in every other endeavor, really, really important in higher education as well, because that is a space that is going to be disrupted the book The great upheaval, which by the way, we will link up in the show notes for our audience. So check it out.
They're a great example, that you share Stephanie, of where all of this is going, and how we need to start thinking a little bit differently about higher education. So let's talk now about private university versus public university is the enrollment cliff that Demographics The changing attitudes toward higher education, how is that different in a private university setting than it might be in a public university?
I appreciate that question. Because you had mentioned earlier in our conversation, Matt, you're a graduate of
Marquette. I'm a graduate of Georgetown. Okay, so two private universities, Jesuit background in terms of their church of affiliation, and Augustana is a private church related university with the Lutheran ELCA Lutheran denomination, and yet, just like Marquette and Georgetown at Augustana, you're you're rooted in a faith tradition, but you're open to students of different faith traditions, and how broad or
deep those traditions are. We're walking alongside students who are service oriented, who are discerning their calling, whether that be in STEM careers, whether it be in the humanities, the social sciences, other pre professional programs. And I think that the enrollment cliff is very similar for private and public, but often public, private universities are viewed as too expensive for some families, they, even though they
save they can't afford it. And I think that's something that we're really working hard to dispel that myth, because through our endowed funds through our impact scholarships, through some of the levers that we can pull as private universities, we need to communicate effectively with prospective students and their parents to understand how we can partner to make a private university education affordable, and how they're different. We're
not saying ours is better. I mean, I used to serve as in Congress, I know the University of South Dakota, South Dakota State University, the other Publix very well and what there's rinks are and how they serve students same with our two
year technical colleges. But how do we say to students were we think this type of more intimate, smaller campus environment, and faculty relationship faculty student ratios, the liberal arts core, and the experiential learning opportunities in a growing city, like Sioux Falls may be a wonderful fit for them. Right.
So I think that's where it differs is that private universities have some additional communication strategies that we have to develop an employee effectively, so that those that want to go on feel that it is financially affordable, without the types of student loan debt that sometimes hits the headlines, and that can be private or public, and how graduate education fits on that and how they can afford that as well.
And there's benefits to both and both of my children decided to go to public universities, my wife and I are both of private university students from you know, several
decades ago now. But I think there are benefits from a private education standpoint to Especially now, when we have you know, parents asking questions about are the values that my students are going to learn after we launched them into higher education, consistent with with what they may be learned around the house, and it's certainly additional exposure and understanding different cultures and different people and different ways of looking at the world. Super,
super important. And I think a private university does that as well. But but there are aspects I think that private universities offer that, that maybe are a little bit different than a public one. And also, to your point, the whole economic question, you reference the, you know, the debt load and the tuition and the cost of private university. And it's really, I was looking at it as an ROI as well. I mean, how quickly are
you going to get out? How many years are you going to spend studying, you know, spending, so spending four years and paying a little more tuition, and then getting out and having a career right away after those four years, that financial model starts to look a little bit
different than spending? You know, I think I was in a presentation earlier this week, where certain public universities in my home state, you know, the norm is now five years in and becoming six years to get through a, you know, a bachelor's degree and undergrad, undergraduate degree program, in this case in public universities, not that we don't have that in private at some point in some points as well. But the truth of the matter is that you look at that whole economic model, that's yet
another advantage. In some cases of private university that's going to focus on processing that student through not to be so anesthetic about it, but the processing through an in four years, and then getting them out into the workforce, and then getting them on, I think, importantly, into into the workforce, where there is a job that will rationalize and justify the investment that they
made in their education. And I want to talk about that now a little bit, you've given some great examples already of additional additional academic opportunities for your students in the world of STEM. Why do you think it's important stuff at four traditionally, liberal arts universities to start looking at the STEM fields for their students? Well, I
appreciate some of the many points you just made that. And I think that a lot of liberal arts colleges and universities, including those in this network of ELCA, colleges and universities, have had really strong Natural Science divisions, where you have a lot of students coming in interested in healthcare, alright, so they're on the pre med track, or their nursing students, or they're looking at dentistry in that those are really rigorous core requirements for them when
they're on that track. And then you have those that are interested in business where they're taking some pretty challenging statistics, economics, mathematics courses, then you have your pre engineering or engineering, taking the physics. So that's the other thing about private universities, we tend to be smaller, the faculty to student ratio is smaller, it's more
relational. And parents should be looking at retention rates, in addition to getting them how long it takes to finish their their bachelor's degree, right? Because a lot of private schools tend to have higher retention rates than public universities.
And what that looks like fall to spring for first year students and Fall to Fall from the freshman to sophomore year, and what that return on investment is and then when you have those rigorous challenging disciplines in the STEM fields, you want not only the relational in the classroom, but what else are you offering through supplemental instruction through one on one type of upperclassmen and faculty to those freshmen and sophomores and one of the things we're doing is a stem Scholars
Program that we received a grant from the South Dakota Space Grant Consortium. It allows first year students to come a couple of weeks early, and if they're interested in STEM fields, they have a certain course where they start doing mathematical modeling. And then they're building community together as a cohort of first year students. They're mentored by upper class STEM majors,
right? And then they get opportunities for student panels from the STEM majors as well as our external partners, whether that's in healthcare for Financial Services, some biofuels industry to see the different ways, especially when we have students who are interested in, in biology and chemistry, but not necessarily pre med, how else do you apply these majors in these different fields? How is it
interdisciplinary? So I think it's then getting creative in private universities to say, look, this isn't at odds with the liberal arts core, how do you leverage the strengths of that liberal arts core, as you were mentioning philosophy, theology, English, we now have a minor in science writing, that's a recent minor. And again, faculty expertise and interest, say, we have a really good writer here. And but we need them to be getting some exposure to more technical writing,
right. And so it just leads to these natural interdisciplinary and collaborative opportunities for both faculty and students, as we listen to them and what their needs are in their interests.
So many ways for us to go with that, with that topic. I mean, first of all, if you talk to any employer, and I'm a big fan of what what we call hard skills in manufacturing, in other words, whether I'm graduating from an engineering program, or a, you know, a two year electromechanical technology program, you don't want to get to the workforce, I need to be able to do something right, I need to be able to add value
right out of the blocks. But we also hear from employers so often that the employability skills, whether that's the ability to communicate, or the ability to solve a problem, or to sit down and, and write a coherent argument for, you know, to your example, a scientific concept, you know, those are really, really important skills. And I think the, I always talked about, if you can sit down in a theology class, or write a term paper about philosophy, you can write a term paper about just
about anything. And so I really, you know, some of those some of those a little bit liberal arts aptitudes that we have coming into the education pathway, and then the competencies that we have, as we go out into the workforce, those are really highly valued competencies among employers. And so I certainly don't want that to get lost in the conversation. Huge, huge value from a liberal arts
standpoint. But also, the idea of, I think he called it the South Dakota Space Grant Consortium and this opportunity for these students to work on a real world problem, and also to be mentored by upperclassmen. It's a great opportunity, not just for that undergraduate student, but for the upperclassmen as well, right. I mean, here, now they have this opportunity to impart wisdom, and to lead another individual, I've got to believe that's a huge advantage of that program as well. It is
Matt, I was just hearing a story yesterday, I met with the professionals in our Student Success Center. They're our career advisors, right. And they they work with our alumni base in the community, and they work with our faculty and our student affairs professionals, to surround our students with all types of supports. And there was an upperclassman student athlete, he's already being recruited by NASA for some summer internship opportunities.
And he was signed up to be a tutor through the Student Success Center with one of his fellow student athletes who's a freshman. And he was talking to his advisor, and he said, Oh, my gosh, have you ever had the experience where you're helping someone learn, and then the light bulb you can see when they get it. Now, we're also preparing young people who may not have thought of going to graduate school to be professors to be educators in these challenging fields, man, so it's
a win, win win, right. And I just loved hearing that story. Because the upperclassmen then are learning we always learn even more deeply when you're asked to help teach it to somebody else. And it just opens up perhaps other pathways for what they're thinking of for career. So all
those great opportunities, not just to, to cement our own learning, but also to learn how to impart and communicate data information and so on to other individuals. It's a lifelong skill and a benefit, and certainly to not just as we suggest the undergraduate students, but to graduate mentors as well. So we're talking now about STEM education at Augustana University, a private university, how that's similar to public universities,
how it's different. We've talked about your goal of growing enrollment to 3000 students by the year 2030. So I'd be interested in kind of talking about the nexus of those concepts, and really saying in the future, so you look out at the next seven years, are there additional STEM program opportunities that you're considering or thinking about? How does stem integrate with the strategic plan for the university? Not just to this point, Stephanie, but as you look out to the next seven years
as you continue to grow? Yes,
we are and we're looking at what makes sense for Augustana. Okay, we don't want to get too far away from what we know we're good at and what our opportunities are given our strategic partners in this region, but we're also doing in a way to elevate our regional and national profile. So the Doctorate of physical therapy program is an accelerated hybrid per program in our School of
Health Professions. And our partner, there's evidence in motion a group of physical therapy professionals who had been in the education space, who viewed an opportunity for students who couldn't move their families or didn't want the traditional three year program where it's currently offered, but could do it if it were accelerated. And if it were hybrid. Okay, so we now have 80 students in the first cohort, it took us three and a half years to develop and launch this program after the Board of
Trustees approved it. EIM is our educational partner. It's a very interesting partnership. We are serving this Upper Great Plains region, but our students are coming from all over the country. Our faculty are remote, as well. I think we have to be open, you know, in our campus culture, that we have remote colleagues, and how do we build professional culture around that? We're now exploring doing this in occupational therapy as
well. We think there's an opportunity in occupational therapy with the School of Health Professions. We also think there's an opportunity for the school share unless School of Education for speech language pathology, another accelerated hybrid program, we already offer a communication disorders program. It's a natural fit for us. Okay, so in two different schools, but also hoping for
integration. We're always looking for integration, right to find the synergies across the schools and across other programs within the core liberal arts offerings to infuse the liberal arts into these professional offerings that we're developing. So those are two examples. A lot of it in nursing, our Masters of Science in Nursing, some additional needs of our workforce. We have two major health systems, headquartered right here in Sioux Falls that serve multi
state regions. One, Sanford Health is now joining their board of trustees. They have a $350 million gift from T Denny Sanford for a virtual care
center. How do you prepare students to serve patients and to be good colleagues ready to serve rural consumers of healthcare rural patients across this region, using technology using health care, monitoring, improving outcomes for patients, and removing barriers for health care providers, whether they're doctors, whether they're nurses, whether there are other providers that are supporting those teams.
And you mentioned the Sanford family and you can't drive a block within the certainly southeastern South Dakota without seeing that name on on a hospital on a healthcare building? I don't you know, I think they, they originally built their wealth in the world of finance and financial transactions, if I'm not mistaken, but just an incredible food and Neverland family, not just in South Dakota, but really across the Great Plains. And so thank you for highlighting $350 million gift, by the way, I
mean, that's a lot of money. So
just for the virtual care center, another 300 million he recently gave Danny and Danny was in the banking sector with first Premier premier bank card, Sanford Health grad at SU Valley Health Care and then merit care up in North Dakota after that merger 1012 years ago now longer I think, and graduate medical education right at for the health system with their partners at the University of South Dakota. And we hope to benefit from that as we find the right partnerships that can
serve the health system. In that regard as well, behavioral health, we received a gift from Sanford Health recently, in addition to others as a legacy partner for integrated behavioral health offerings. So we're doing that through social work programs through some of what we're doing in partnership with school districts as well.
Fantastic. And let me ask you this, Stephanie, because you've mentioned now a couple times this idea of hybrid and remote learning. And as we're talking about the enrollment cliff, and how higher education needs to morph a little bit to make sure that we remain relevant. You mentioned that earlier. You just mentioned that in your last response. I want to dwell on that for just a moment. I don't want to lose
that concept. So you're talking both in terms of, you know, hybrid learners, and this doctor of physical therapy, and remote and hybrid instructors, professors as well. Am I understanding that right? That's correct. So tell us about that. I mean, how do you think about and what are you hearing from your students about hybrid learning, remote learning? Why is that a core part of where you're going? Okay,
so let's talk about traditional undergraduates. We were all forced to make the transition back in March, right of 2020. No one likes to psychologically go back to that time, but we have to because for sure we do since learned, on what we did, well, what we could have done better and that we actually did it, right and Augustana we always try to find a third way, right? We don't want to overreact to how everyone else is doing it. We know ourselves operationally
what we're going to do. We had 87% of our courses, in person or hybrid with our students who wanted to be back on campus. They didn't want to be home anymore. We made it work for some of our international students or students or faculty with some health conditions. We did have some online but We made it work. And we learned a lot. And we enhanced everyone's digital fluency. And we figured out how to build community even when you're not just right in
the same room. Right that how do you pull people in, in these virtual environments? And so what we're doing is being more open to how do we help people feel a part of Augustana University and Sioux Falls, even if they're only on campus once or twice a year, right? For some professional development team building? What have you, they are in Minnesota, they're in Florida, they're in Denver,
they're all over. Okay. And I think that this is something that private universities have an opportunity because we tend to be more nimble and flexible you to find the right openings. You got to be open to doing and empower people to help build community in that way. It can challenge a lot of existing process and systems. But I think even undergraduate students are saying, Look, I hope that maybe in my five to six, six courses a semester, one of them might be hybrid, one of them might be
online, right? They're here, we're recommitting to a residential campus experience for traditional undergraduates. But we're also saying let's keep innovating, right, let's not be too quick to go back to how we used to do it, versus building on this momentum and these other learnings we've had together where we feel more confident, and our ability to adapt, and to do it well, while again, holding on to the core and foundation of
strengths. The other thing I want to mention briefly, is the vitamins, okay, the vitamins of education. And whether you're doing an undergraduate program, that's four years, whether you're doing a graduate program, even if accelerated, that's two years, then you have to think about the vitamins for the
lifelong learners. Right? The certificate programs, the condensed sort of six week or nine credit, you'll How do you build in these micro credentials, because a good friend of mine, Augustana alumnus, John hammary, class of 1972, President and CEO of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC, they have a program with Syracuse University, right? And he said, Stephanie, adult learners want the vitamins, not the calories. I love that metaphor. That's
right. And so how do we build academic experiences, learning experiences that are targeted, give the vitamins, we know that 18 to 22 year olds need the calories to write what we do in all their learning and skill building in a campus environment. And I think it's important we innovate in that space as well. Vitamins,
not the calories, that's awesome. And I'm gonna, by the way, I'll credit you the first three times I use that and then I'm just gonna flat out steal it, because that's absolutely brilliant. I love it. That's a great, great way of
looking at it. You know, the other thing you mentioned, Stephanie, is this whole idea of finding a third way and a man in this vitriolic world that we're living in these days, isn't that a great philosophy, not just for a university, but probably for the entire country that we've in some ways to become so polarized, and so many of us are trying to find our way back to back to the middle, and really work on what's truly important.
And so I'm gonna, I'm going to use that one as well, finding a third way, I think that's a it's a really mature and interesting and apropos way of looking at how we set strategy, and how we look to the future, as somebody, you mentioned, the pandemic, and I spent time lots of time here in the Midwest, time all over
the country. During the pandemic, I spent time in places like South Dakota, during the pandemic, and two very different views of how we, you know, how we work our way through it, everybody found a way, here we are on the other side of it. And for the vast majority of us, we made it through that. And that just comes through communication and dialogue and collaboration, and so on. So I like the spirit in which you're talking about how you find a third way at
Augustana. University. I think that's great advice for the rest of the world. And speaking of great advice, you're looking to, you know more if you're programming in some stem directions and take a traditional liberal arts education, find ways to leverage the huge benefits that come from that into STEM. Is there some advice you would share with other leaders of institutions of higher education, particularly private institutions of higher education? Stephanie, as they
consider a similar journey? Yes. And
my advice would be don't let some of the strictures of shared governance, which is very important, hinder, empowering, emerging leaders in your midst, who want to innovate, who are entrepreneurial. And the example I will give is the Dean of our School of Music came to us when I started at Augustana. He was the director of orchestras. And he came and he is very technology savvy. He is out in California as we speak, meeting with leaders in the corporate partners in the music industry.
And we hired someone who was at the forefront of building these technical tools. So it's an example in music that's often how I was in the humanities at a liberal arts school. He took that to say we're have traditional performance ensembles for our students, even if they're not music majors, we're going to take our traditional teacher education program. And we're going to also integrate production, visual and
audio production. We secured a gift from Midco from Minko media campus, where we do both musical production athletic production, our English and journalism faculty are now utilizing that technology. And we built out a studio with Dolby Atmos 3d technology, 3d sound technology,
so it can happen anywhere. And my advice to leaders is find ways to empower those people on your campus and think outside the box as it relates to a traditional academic department, the way that department chairs, division chairs, Dean's can support professional development and additional responsibility for those type of people in your midst.
So much packed into that let's let's kind of go in reverse. I mean, the idea of having a student who maybe has this huge passion for music and an interest in maybe at some point, having that be their profession, but also creating kind of we'd like love to call them on ramps and off ramps and, and figuring out alright, should that change, and I get a couple years past my high school years.
And maybe that's not the passion that I want to pursue, how do I create options, and maybe getting into something like music production to still be able to follow that passion they have for music, but in a little bit different venue toward a little bit different career, and really combining the humanities, if you will, with STEM
education. I mean, that is a really, really cool example, huge advocate here at the Tech Ed podcast for credentials and microcredentials consuming these bits and pieces of information that that is certainly really, really important and something that you're building into the education pathway there at Augustana. We're closing in on the end of our time here with Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, who is the president of Augustana? University. But I do want to take time, Stephanie, for one
last question. And we love this question here on the tech ed podcast, we like turning back the clock. If I remember reading your bio, you actually grew up in South Dakota, I believe your was it your grandfather? That was actually the governor of the state? Did I get that? Right?
Yes, he was back in the late 1950s. And my grandmother's Secretary of State in the 1970s. So great
history of service throughout the family and, and growing up on that farm there in northeastern South Dakota, let's go back in time. And let's say that you're, you're a 15 year old girl, you've got your entire life ahead of you. If you could go back in time, and give a piece of advice to that 15 year old girl, what would that advice be?
I am grateful for this question. Because I remember distinctly being at a workshop when I was in Congress, out of the South Dakota School of Mines, and it was for middle school girls, and it was STEM fields. And if I had had that when I was 15. I mean, I was just so energized by it. But I would say to my 15 year old self shadow, asked for more shadowing opportunities in different fields. Yes, I had a lot of influences in government
and public service. And that's an because there was there were natural shadowing things when I would go with my dad to the legislature and my grandmother was there in the 70s and 80s. And some seeds that were planted early for me about the legal field. But I think that if I had been given if I had been proactive, say, You know what I want to shadow someone who's at the coop as it relates to
agronomy, right? And the interest if I wanted to serve my rural communities where I grew up, and maybe stay here, what are what are the opportunities for me in that field? What are the opportunities for me, if I wanted to be in the medical field, and I didn't do any shadowing in those settings, and I think I would say to, as I say to to my own son now just turned 15 You you may have certain passions and his passion is music. And we want to cultivate
those gifts. But be open to other pathways and see if those are truly your passions. And if it is how do you integrate it into a professional and personal life where you may have other passions that need to be you need to be curious about and see if there are other sparks there so that you have more options to choose. I like options. I like input. And so that would be what I would say to my 15 year old self just like I'm saying to myself,
number one influencer of a young person's pathway career pathway or their own interested in experiences in middle school and high school and you hit that right on the head. I appreciate you calling out the South Dakota School of Mines. I know Dr. Jim Rankin will appreciate that shout out. He too is a member of The TechEd Podcast alumni circle, which is what we call our guests who have joined us and we're so so happy to welcome you Stephanie to that
circle. We've had a conversation that is really gone a lot of directions in a lot of great ways whether it's advice for other private universities the importance of a liberal arts education, the importance of STEM education, understanding technology and education, the enrollment club we've, we've covered so much territory in a short period of time can't thank you enough for that discussion. You talk about the importance of sparking career interests. In
your last answer. You sparked so many great ideas for us to think about here on the tech ed podcast today. I can't thank you enough. Stephanie Hurst has sandland, the president of Augustana University for joining us today on the tech ed podcast.
Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Here at the Tech Ed podcast, we talked to people who are doing great things in public policy, governmental leaders and leaders of educational institutions, including institutions of higher education. I think that was the first time we had someone who made it from the United States House of Representatives to the leadership of a private university. I had so much fun talking with Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, the president of Augustana. University, I learned
so much I hope you did, too. We referenced the shownotes in that episode. And as you know, we have the absolute best show notes in the entire podcast world. So head on over to Tech Ed podcast.com/augustana, and we'll have all the information that you want to see about this week's episode. Now, don't forget that we are active on every single social media platform that includes LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram, and
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