The Danish Delta Force (Jaeger Corps) | Thomas Rathsack | Ep. 355

Special Operations.

Cobert Sbiona The Team House with your hosts Jack Murphy and David Park.

Hey, everyone, welcome to episode three hundred and fifty five of The Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave and our guest on tonight's show. I'm very excited to have here tonight, Thomas Rathsak. Thomas is the author of Yagger at War with the Elite, a book that I helped have translated and brought to the English language readers. So it's out there for you guys if you want to read his memoir, which is super I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I think it's a great story and I hope

He also served with the.

Danish d Mining Group before four nine to eleven, even in Chechnya in Afghanistan, and then afterwards, I mean, he wrote his book. There was some controversy about it back home in Denmark, and he's moved on to writing some novels, some television projects and some other things we'll get into here.

So Thomas. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you for having me.

So the first question we always ask is our guest's origin story. Can you tell us a little bit about like how you grew up in you know, what your initial interest was in the military as a young guy.

Yes, well it started actually because I was very what you call it, insecure, young young child, and I was searching for answers. And I remember one day when I was walking by them with my mother in the street just close.

To my my, my, my.

House, and a new book was released and I just it caught my attention. On the cover of the book was a guy with a cigarette in his mouth. He was dirty, and I would just look at that face. That must be something special. And it turned out that it was a Danish guy from my special forces unit, the Yegga Court and he was just some few years before he attended the ranger course and his name was Carston Mark and he became number one at this ranger course.

So it was not that it was you know, the military.

It was just a story and narrative about, you know, a bunch of guys working together in the nature and using their physics, and that was extremely appealing to me. And I decided in a very young age that I wanted to be a part of that unit because then I have all the answers in my confused had all the questions in my confused head that that they would have an answer then.

So that was that was the beginning.

And so yeah, and so you grew up and you joined the military.

What what year was this?

I joined the military in nineteen eighty five. I was eighteen years old. I joined the National the National Guard, and I served there for five years in infantry.

And then as thirty twenty three years old.

I I I took the the.

Selection course to the Yega Corps.

You had a bit of like a winding path to like like was it selection or was it your training course got postponed because of was it the golf War?

No, actually it was.

I became Yega in nineteen ninety and as a as far as I recalled, it was was in ninety one and ninety two.

Did the first golf war?

Okay, I might be thinking of something else that I read in your book about how like a course you were going to attend got delayed.

What what I wrote about was that during the First Golf War, and that's that's one of the reasons why I left the Eco COO in the first place. Anyway, we didn't even consider, you know, preparing our gear. It was the Americans and the British who went to the Gulf War. But nobody in my unit even talked.

About getting prepared to the First Golf War.

And I just remember it was extremely demotivating for me, because I mean I want I joined the armitude, you know, to to to to get some missions, not just you know, running around in my unit and my and the barracks and just train and train and train. So I was very disappointed in the in the beginning of the nineties, in the in the first period I was in the ECA Corp.

Before we talk about you know, you had a break

The Yegger Coat was established in ninety sixty one as.

Alert unit.

And until mid nineties it was alert unit and then in the nineties it.

Was transformed to a special forces unit.

And my selection course it lasted sixteen weeks.

It's divided in two parts. The first eight weeks you have to.

Pass and be among I don't know the word in English, but you have to get the highest evaluation in order to continue to the last eight weeks.

And it's we started, I think it was ninety eight.

Started and we finished eight and I was among these eight.

And it's classic disciplines.

It's a lot of marching, it's a lot of orienteering, it's a lot a lot of swimming, especially in cold water, which I really really hate. It's it's a lot of exercises. You know you've done it. Nothing to eat, nothing to sleep, no restitution. So it's just sixteen sixteen weeks of pain and misery.

And Denmark's climate is quite harsh, isn't it.

Well, it's difficult for me to compare with the other unit, but I think it's it's quite I think it's quite quite strict. It's only these ten percent of the students who you know, fulfilled.

They cause so.

I was very prepared because I was. I was I was training throughout my teen years. I was extremely ambitious, so I was very very well prepared for the selection. So I normally say that I was a better student than I became a yegger because because I never really had had strong difficulties at the selection courst because I was so prepared. I mean as as before I joined

So I was very serious about my preparation.

So selection cost, of course it was tough, but for me, I was so prepared, so I was never in the extreme red zone.

So yeah, and after the selection course, what is the training for a yager?

Like you have one year a sort of probation before you are you were putting into an rational team. So this year you you you you you are being taught the basic skills. It's medic it's it comes all all all these all these things, and then you're getting ready and you're you're getting your JEGA status status after one year, and first after that you are allowed into the into the teams. It's it's a very small unit compared at least to American standards.

We have always been.

Struggling for for selection because the Danish Army is so small, so it's very difficult to to to get enough people to to get enough people into the selection.

So it's a very small unit.

It's about it's about fifty max max fifty shooters, so it's a very small unit. And the organization organization in total is three other people. And then the called the teams is only about these fifty fifty shooters.

And Denmark has Jager Core, the Frogmen Core and then serious patrol is also considered a special right.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah, and the serious patrol in Greenland, as as you mentioned, is even smaller. It is I wouldn't say it's a joke because that's not very polite, but it's so small. I mean, they have false late slid patrols patrolling an area of the size of Spain. It's it's the world's biggest national park. The serious patrol is patrolling on the east side of Greenland. But now because there is this focus on Greenland, uh, quite a lot of resources are being being deployed to Greenland now.

And I would recommend for our viewers. We interviewed your buddy Casper Domso on a previous episode of this show, if guys want to go back, Casper was a serious patrol member, super unique mission.

I hope you guys will take a look at that.

So, Thomas, you had a you know, you were a Special Forces soldier. You wanted to test yourself and felt like you weren't getting that combat experience that you were looking for at that time in the nineteen nineties, and so you had a break in service. What did you go and do outside of the military at that time.

Well, I finished in ninety four and I really didn't want to. I didn't know what to do at all, because all my life it was all about being being a Jeger. So it was a very frustrating situation, not you know, not to have any goals. But what I did was I went to South America for two years, lived in Chile and worked as a photographer for various magazines.

I did that for yeah, almost three years actually, and.

Then I went back home to Denmark and I worked as a computer salesman for three years and that was okay, but it was very boring. And then I, by coincidence, I was offered an UD course, so old guys from from the Yeca Coo. They have made this cooperation with the army and some humanitarian Demaine organizations and they hired

So there was a lot of a lot of refuge refugees in the neighboring province region called Incocheche. So I traveled between and Ingushetia to educate the refugees in the refugee camps so when the war was over they could they could return to their villages and be aware of how it is to live in an area infected by mines, how how do you choose the pathway can go? Which which where is it Safere's it not safe? So I did that for.

Yeah, for one year, and then I continued in Afghanistan as a program manager and cleared some huge Russian minefields just around Kabul, the capital in Afghanistan, and I did that for that.

We are now in two thousand and one.

Uh in two thousand and I did that for a little over over a year.

What was it like interacting with the Taliban at that time as a Danish d minor.

Yeah, I mean they're just completely assholes.

So what we have to do with them because we came with our old money, but we still had to get their permission to clear minds in their country for our money, after their warsh and still we.

Were treated like like shit.

I refused to to to wear a beard, which was you know, mandatory for all men at that time. When I refused, and I was almost kicked out of Afghanistan because I refused to have this this stupid bed, and we.

Have to deal with them.

We had to apply for permissions in order to to clear the minds. So I have almost on a daily basis meetings with tiny bands in the ministries in Kapul where I have to go there and ask for permission to clear minds. So it was it was surreal to to be in Afghanistan in its in this this stage, terrible place.

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Were there any close calls?

Uh?

And I remember there's also a funny story about the the street lamp that fell down.

Yeah, that's fine, I forgot that actually, yes, I with my Swedish buddy, we were called out to the outskirts of of Cabul and a huge amount of people together around this suspicious item on the ground and my, my, my, my Swedish buddy and I we we we made we made this hookah line, you know, put a very easy to put a put a hook in the edge of this item because we believed it was uh, you know,

So yeah, And then were you in Afghanistan when nine to eleven happened.

Yes, I was my my boss from Denmark here he came and we were sitting on the in the garden and drinking gin and tony.

We smuggled some some booths in.

That was forbidden, of course, and there was a curfew after eight o'clock in the evening was it was was not alive, allowed to leave our premises. So we were sitting in the garden and that we didn't have any radio. We didn't have any TV because that was also forbidden. But the satellite phone rang in the basement and I went, I went downstairs and and and answered it was it was from the h Q in Copenhagen, and quite nervous voice said, have you heard about what happened in the in the States?

And I didn't know.

I don't have a clue because we don't have any access to TV or radio. And then he explained about the the nine to eleven attacks on on On on twins hour and and UH and the Pentagon as well, and soon we just realized that all the fingers were pointing at at at at Afghandistan and al Qaeda, and it didn't make any sense to stay in Afghanistan.

So three three.

O'clock in the morning we we evacuated me my Swedish body and my Danish boss and at my dog by the way, I find found the dog some some months earlier, and we drove this trip to U through the Gayper

That's a hair raising experience.

I imagined being kabol when that happens, and all of a sudden, all the news is about America wants to bomb this place.

It was interesting.

Yeah, that was why it Also it didn't make sense to stay there because he knew that the Americans quite promptly would react, which yeah, you also did. But then in in Afghania or in in Pakistan, I I my my old yega kre Uh spirit woke up and I called the Yega cor and told them about my my my stay in Afghanistan.

And at that time there was no Danish people.

In Afghanistan, very few foreigners, so it makes past, yes, but very very few d minors. So I told them, well, I've been here for ten years, ten months, and I have some experience with the country.

I know about the culture, the.

Geography, and I have a database of all the minefields in Afghanistan. Can you use me to some purpose, I asked them and became quiet, and they said, of course we can. So I quit my job and took the first flight back home to Denmark, briefed the Yekako about all my experiences from Afghanistan, went to the American Embassy.

And code making.

By the way, they have heard about me as well, and I went there to give them all the information I had pictures and the database and all this. And then a few months later, a few weeks later actually, I went back with the Yekako to Afghanistan.

Wow, so that's I mean, really quick that you went

Time, exactly, Yes, and I had to make some physical tests and had to be updated on all the new equipment because as I mentioned before, the Yega Core has been transformed from from a lab unit to to to to to spacial forces unit during the dances, So of course I had to to learn fast about the new procedures about you know, new webon systems, comes. Everything was new, so I really had to to to focus in the next weeks before I could get into a team in Afghanistan.

And when you got to Afghanistan, I mean, where did your team get sent and what was sort of like the mission that you guys anticipated at that time.

We were part of a Task Force KABA which was based in Kandaha, and we are some of the first setting up the camp with the Americans and and and and some other and then some other units from from Task Force KABA. It was I think it was some Navy seals. I think it was German cars, car Norwegian uh Special Forces, New Zealand, Australia, Canadians.

Were in in.

This Task Force CAPA and we were only one hundred Frogmen and and Jegas in in our task force which was a part of Task Force CAPA and was as I mentioned UH stationed in located in Kanadaha at the old Taliban al Qaida base. Actually, I don't know whether you have heard about Tonic Farms.

Tonic Farms. Yeah, it was this.

What you call it compound UH, and it was probably there where where they prepared some of the the attacks for for nine eleven as as far as I understand it.

And it's pretty littered with minds itself, wasn't it.

Yeah, yes, they they had some daisy chains in in in in Tonic Farms, and it I think it was some Americans were killed because of these uh, these these mines and these boogie traps they have left the place with.

So one of the things you know that your unit was very good at. You mentioned how they started off as a WORP unit and evolved into an s F unit. But what Yager really seems to bring to the table is like a really strong reconnaissance background. And I was wondering if you could tell us about one of these missions that you went on in Afghanistan where your team was flown in the one sixtieth aircraft and you guys occupied that op for a couple of weeks.

Right, we're supposed to be there for ten.

Days, uh, and we were well, yeah, the infield was a nightmare, by the way, it was almost a completely what do they call it, steep cliff and was of

So Thomas just to interrupt for a second, I had to I was trying to do some math in my head, and I'm not very good at it, but so I looked it up. Eighty four kilograms for our American listeners, that's one hundred and eighty five pounds of equipment that you were lugging up the side of this mountain. And once you got up there, you guys had to establish your observation post.

Right.

Yeah, it was very narrow, very small. It was just a little what do you call it? So it goes down and then a little bit like a yeah, yes, uh and and we have our observation point just in front of our our place or our loop, and.

And it was it was it was not a good place.

To to to to to be because we haven't we didn't have any exit. Yeah, I mean if we were compromised, we had a problem.

And we were compromised. After six days, you.

Know what happened in well, I was I was on I was on the the op, and I could just since that there was something wrong.

And I turned my my head and I could.

See too, two guys dressed in black, long black beards with Kalashnikov's five six meters over the other, over over the team, and it happened.

Happened very quickly.

They saw us, we saw them, and within one two seconds, they were just gone, and that was nine o'clock in the morning. And that was a problem because we could just we couldn't just pack our gear and and find another place, because I mean daytime suicide.

So we have to stay there.

And we we we packed all essential equipment in in our you know, in our burgens. And a guy called Peter and I we we crawled after these two men up the cliff. But we've been lying still almost for six for six days, so it was like my body was you know, putting, putting, being putting down in cement. I was so heavy I couldn't move and he couldn't

Cliff we were we were laying laying on and.

They were just communicating with all the other in the village, all the other men, and they were talking in some radios and made some signals with with with the flax, and we just knew that it was a matter of time because they before they would you know, engage us. So that was that was a that was a shitty situation.

And then the patrol leader right is calling up higher and like asking for air support and q r F and they're kind of like, yeah, sorry, it can't help you.

Yeah, we asked for some show of force and what sold from the a wax uh that probably a French mirage could do a low pass later in order to make some sure. We never saw any friends mirage at all, I don't know, just drinking.

Red red wine or whatever. We we never saw some some short force.

Of course we had we had a q i F and an American platoon sized q F in background, but they were labeled.

To all the teams in this uh this you know, along the border.

So unless it was really critical, we could just ask for cure because our situation wasn't critical. Of course, we compromised, but we couldn't just you know call for the cure F on this it really was necessary and it was you know, two hours flying from background. Uh So so even if we had the q F, it will still take two hours for the q F to come at to our to our location.

And how did you guys end up finally extracting out of that area.

Well, uh, fortunately the the enemy, the Taliban, I assumed they were tally bands. They they just get their reinforcement by late afternoon, around seven o'clock. By around about five o'clock, rather, it was getting sort of dark, and I could see in my in I could see in the village that their reinforcement consisting of thirty forty warriors. Probably they came almost running down to the village. So they came late.

But they came late, and that was our lock.

So we could just climb down the cliff, go down in the opposite valley on the south.

Side, and we had this.

This you know, from from one one sixty to pick us up just after getting dark, so it was very close before the landing zone could get you know, could get hot and and we couldn't be picked up. But they managed to get down and we we went, we flew back to the base.

So any other notable operations from that deployment that we should talk about.

Well, I was, yeah, but it was almost only only recommissions.

Sort of dramatic.

I was a lot of some other recommistions, but we weren't compromised there. And one of the big the biggest lessons learned by the way with this mission was that we were too few, too few in the in the team and too heavy. So next time we went out, we're eight in the team or ten in the team, and we have a lighter load and you know, maybe

What what do you think you know, having done successful recumissions in Afghanistan? Because you know, we talk a lot and people talk a lot about how Afghanistan was such a hard place to do wrekis because you know, because the villagers knew everything, and you know, you had your goat herds, you know, like wandering everywhere and it was red wings, you know where we see you know, a seal team get compromised. What what was it that made your recomission successful where you avoid compromise.

We're extremely careful about choosing our op. You know probably know this software falcon View. At that time, we used to falcon View and it was extremely efficient and as I said before, we were light on we made we made this huge mistake being too heavy on the first missions. And the next time, as I mentioned, we were much better prepared due to falcon View and preparation phase in general,

End of the nineties.

We have been on Balkan, yes, but until that point the Yeka CO didn't really wasn't deployed.

So we learned fast.

During the first months in Afghanistan in in O two we learned fast because we made some mistakes, but we really learned from these these mistakes and at the end of our mission, no note teams were compromised because we have learned and and we're just being being good at this reky mission UH type of record missions.

So after Afghanistan, if I'm correct, the next trip was doing security for the ambassador in Arad.

Yes, I was one year almost in in Iraq, four months in in the south under the British brigade where we did some some recommissions, but mostly the eight months it was was in fact dead for the Danish ambassador, that's correct.

What was the what was it like, you know, operationally different for you doing w reki in Iraq versus Afghanistan.

It was completely different terrain in Iraq. In the southern part of Iraq it's completely flat and it's even warmer than than Afghanistan. So it's extremely difficult to hide in

And then what was it like trying to run security for the ambassador and keeping him safe during this in the middle of a war zone.

Yeah, back there was a very unpleasant place to be because.

Obviously we were located in green.

Zone a few hundred meters from the American embassy, and we had the ambassador, and we had three to Nankhus's armored and we were ten ten jaggers just to take care of one v I P. And the back then was a war zone at that time. It was extremely unpleasant place to be because it was so unpredictable. Either you had i DS, you had roadside bombs, you have

And when the the the.

Column was was passing this this that dark it was just it was dessionated family fathers with their with their with their wife in the pasenger seat and and their kids on the back seat blew themselves up, you know, passing some some some coalition convoys. In other words, it's completely unpredictable and you can't you can't see the enemy when when when when when?

When?

This is their motives and and and it was yeah, it was, it was. It was a nasty state place place to be.

But you also made you tend to make friends with the animals wherever you go. H did you you did you adopt another couple of dogs on that trip?

Well?

Actually, the Danish ambassador he saw a dog standing and was tied to a land post and he ordered, uh, the column to stop, and that he ordered us to take the dog back home to the embassy. And she became a sort of embassy dog. But I found her home from for her in Denmark and she was called Maggie and she had a long, long, long, beautiful life in Denmark. Yeah, so I really like dogs.

And what was the another story I remember from your book? What was the story about sweeping the embassy every time? Was it the ambassador every time he'd get frustrated?

Hmm, Well, I don't recall that or what it was that you.

Uh, there's something about like sweeping the embassy grounds or something like that when things didn't go right or didn't go according to plan.

Okay, I can't remember that.

Okay, like sweeping with a brum, I mean, you know, like sweeping the dirt.

Ah, Okay, yeah, okay, no, I think it was he was.

He was extremely nice via a pleasant via the Danish ambassador. And I don't recall any you know, any punishment in terms of eaning those people.

If I recall right from the book you said he got interviewed by some Danish journalist and he said some things off the record.

Okay, wow, I just forgot all about that. Yeah.

It was a very lift lift wing Danish journalist who came and made this interview, and he made the ankle so far from the point and the actual interview, so when it was broadcast on Danish television, it was a completely other, you know angle. So that's that's completely correct, my my ambassador the I V he was so angry and so frustrated.

That he sweep the entrance for for two hours. That's that's correct. I forgot that.

I and then I think was it. The next trip overseas was interesting, back to Afghanistan, working undercover.

Yes, for for six months. We we have this on the cover operation. It was with with the Danish intelligence service, and.

Well our actually was sound quite boring.

Anyway, we have to in some villages in in Afghanistan, we have to escort this field officer from the Intelligence Services from out of his meetings in order for him to interrogate his sources in the local environment. So that could be two three o'clock in the morning, and we couldn't just you know, drive around in in normal military vehicles, so we we bought some old, old cars and and we made them look like they were like all the other cars, but actually they were quite well maintained.

And then we we tried our best to blend in as as to you know, to look like like Afghans.

Obviously, we couldn't drive during the day because it was too risky and and we would also be exposed, so that's that was another reasons why we did in during the night.

So we we painted our phases.

And we had beards and and local clothes and and then just a lot of weapons in the car.

Uh and the completely on our own.

We didn't have any backup if if we were compromised there, we will have a very very big problem because we could we couldn't call Q or anything.

Were completely on our own.

So that was the risky part of of of the the operation.

But I mean no, no, no big drama.

We were almost compromised one time, but that's that's all. So just a matter up being extremely low pro profile. That was the most important issue with that operation. But completely another mindset by the way to do this sort of operation, I mean normally we.

Don't do this, was to do this a very.

Quiet, low key, low profile operation was a completely another mindset for me.

I remember, it's also like part of the you know, because the Danish military is small, and Danish special operations it is even smaller. You guys have to like cover all of these different missions.

That's right.

We don't have resources just you know, to have one squadron taking care of unconmissional warfare and another ragged action. We had to to a as to the best of our abilities to to do to do to do it all. So that's of course sign consuming, consuming and trigging, but that yeah, that's correct.

So on that note, let's talk about a couple of things back home, because you guys also have domestic missions and you know, of course training missions that you do back home too.

There was one where you guys did security for an.

I think it was an economic forum of some sort back in Denmark and trained up and prepared extensively for that.

Yeah, that's correct. It was an EU meeting and Copenhaiggen was hosting this this meeting, and all military units almost and all police units were involved in this, in this project or this this this meeting, and we we had the responsibility for I think, for hotels in order to make evacreation evacuation plans for the for the guests attending

Quite boring, actually, but.

Well, I mean you also prepared base jumping, which I wouldn't consider boring.

No, no, but that I mean we we we considered the option, but.

I mean one hundred and fifty meters doing based on you really have you know, you're you've been free folding, and it's not it's not on it's not on the top of your list.

Doing based on definitely.

One of I don't know if it was from the same period of time, but I like, maybe my favorite picture out of your book is the dude jumping out of the helicopter and tackling the guy on the jet ski.

Oh yeah, yes, it was just a demo. I think it was the egga course. Was it forty years birthday?

I think so. And it was a demo in in in the Harbor.

So just just show yeah, yeah.

And then tell us about Night Hawk. Yeah.

Ninth talk Is is an annual exercise with with various foreign units UH from Scandinavia, the Swedes and Norwegians, the British.

Some American units has been there as well.

Special Forces Delta was in in the nineties and and the beginning of of of uh the tens what they call it an American in two thousands.

You mentioned you mentioned some jager Core guys like jumping into Hawaii with Delta at one point on training like that sounds like a good gig.

Yeah, I know. Uh.

A former starts in major in the Eco cod He got personal with with some of the the people from from from Delta, and I think this this connection is still between these two units.

The Eco Coat don't talk about it obviously.

UH and UH and and it's it's it's of course very useful for for the YCA Coat to have these to have access relations to and and connections in in this in this unit because they had training facilities that we only can dream of. And that was example is exercise on Hawaii whether they jumped in and to make an exercise, Yeah, that would be nice.

That's cool.

And so Nighthawk, I mean it's like very like realistic full mission profile training that you guys do, right.

Yeah, it's a lot of assets, at least compared to Danish standards, but but a lot of aircraft and a lot of helicopters and and it's just preparing during the day, uh, and then the missions during the now the night and then deeper ifing and then you just go over and over again for for eight eighteen days. It's a very good exercise, especially because we have to to you know, cooperate with with all the all the other units, and that's extremely useful.

And it reminds me that you know, you talk about doing a free fall jump into Nighthawk or at least one training iterations. Do you want to tell the story about your Haglo jump that got a little iffy.

Yeah, we were jumping jumping for for thirteen fourteen thousand feet. It was a dark night in November, cooled and we exited the the one thirty over the the the ocean, and I pulled my shoes in a in around ten thousand feet and said the cost directly east towards the beach, and this uh, this landing zone was an unknown landing zone. And I came over the the the the show, and I had my cause. And then I started to make my final UH to the landing zone.

But I discovered that I was backing.

The weather forecast had been wrong, and the wind appeared to be much stronger than than the weather forecast said.

So that was obviously a problem for me to.

Back in my in my shoes. So I had a problem and to make to make this situation a little bit more serious. Suddenly I heard this, this sort of whisper. I never forget that sound. I have this this and I pulled my own the one hand, and so I can see over my shoulder, and I see these three or four big windmills, wind windmills, maybe three.

Four hundred meters behind me. Oh, like ocean turbine, the turbines for electric.

Yes, yeah, And I was backing towards these windmills.

So that was obviously obviously very shitty situation.

So the only thing I could do was just to to turn one eighty and then fly with with with you know, full power between these big windmills. And then I landed you know, way way, way way too fast, and and and really yeah, but but I'll never forget these damn windmills.

Uh.

And another training mission in your book that's interesting is uh where you guys have to tackle a cruise liner.

Yeah, that was a training exercise as a part of the dangerous national counter terrorism set up, and we used two or three times a year. We trained with with the Danish counter Terrorism Police because the CORE also is a part of this national setup.

And it's just.

You know, we we bought we bought the ship either on on fast proving or repelling mostly fast probing, or boarding from from from a rip boat. And and with these small letters, and then we had this hostage situation on the ship, which by the way, is quite complex because it's quite difficult to get the overview when when we had to navigate inside of a big ship. It's difficult with the comps because they can't always reach through the walls and all this, so so it can very

That's super cool.

And then at this point back to Iraq, can you tell us the story about you know You're You're back with the Jaggers in Iraq, the in Deep Ship story, the chapter from your from your book.

Yeah, there was a headquarter from one of the local militias and one of the big problems in the area was that they were firing these rockets, improvised rockets into the Danish camp and the British camp.

So one of our missions was to identify where these.

Wedding cashiers were, where they where, where they hided all all the kits and the ammunition in general. So we got this intel on one militia headquarter in the outskirts of Basra Jayshaul Martin. Yeah, and for some reason they wanted us to go in and look at it. Seemed quite clumsy to me, but anyway, that was that was

Around four four kilometers and.

On the the the satellite photos was just cut through maybe twenty or eighteen I think it was these small channels, and on the satellite photo on an area of photos, it seemed quite instant. It didn't seem that trigger to get over these these eighteen or nineteen channels. But after getting to the first one we realized that it was.

What it was it was, well, that was not pleasant though, and I take it you burned to those uniforms when you got back. We did, yeah, yeah, uh.

And then you also had an opportunity was there destruction of a rocket cash.

Uh you guys so long time ago, I can't really remember.

Yeah, yeah, no worries.

There's another mission where you guys were the q r F for the conventional Danish forces.

Right, yeah, Actually we were preparing for for another mission and platoon command I came running in the tent and said, we have to be kue.

Right now.

So we just got our weapons and boarded the helicopter and were briefed on the way to the to the area.

And it turned out that.

That Danish platoon was was not able to get out of this village. And from from our position, we we tried to to to caught the attention of of the Iraqi militia who had caught this this this platoon and the rest of the battalion was on the on the way and uh, and they came and and and and

But but no, no, no, no real drama.

And then something else that happened back home. You know, your unit was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation by President George W.

Bush.

And from the way you describe it in the book, it seems like that kind of like went without being recognized back home at Denmark.

Yeah. You want to talk a little bit.

About that, Yeah, yeah, And I'm just getting annoyed by thinking about it so many years after.

But it's just so typical Danish. I mean by coincident.

I was standing in a in a conference room in we had in two thousand and four, I think, I mean, two years after we came home from Afghanistan. I'm just looking at this photo of our of the boss, Lieutenant Colonel Frank Listener, and he was shaking hand with the President George Bush. And I went into the to the to the office to the guys in there and said, what's going on there?

What did you do over there? And why why have we heard anything about that?

And it turned out us as you said, that that the EEGA Core and the Frogman Core, by the way, was watered this presidential unionization. I didn't know what it was, so I had to google and it's well, it's it's it's quite it's quite an achievement.

So I was proud to get that. To know that.

I think when we got it, it wasn't it wasn't a watered to any units, correct me if I'm wrong. I think from since the Vietnam War, I think it hadn't been awarded to that that many units.

So I I my boss.

He then addressed the unit, and then then he had he addressed the American embassy, and then two weeks later the as a ship from the American embassy came and we we then got got.

This little what do you call it a ribbon? Yeah, ribbon? Yeah, but it's just.

I mean it's it's just typical being a small army, and you know, not, why why not celebrate because the first time we get this, this this award, why not celebrate?

Why I never get it? But it's just so typical Danish.

So tell us a little bit about your exit from the unit, Like when when did that day come that you decided you were ready to get out of the military.

Yeah, I was forty one years old, and I knew that that would in some section and and then I was just you know, pushing paper and I didn't want to do that. I wanted to be in the army in order to be uh you know, you know, being being being in being in a team, not not doing a faboration of orders or what do you call it? All this, I didn't I didn't want to do that. So I left the egga co arm As forty years forty one years old, after after eleven years of service. Yeah,

And I don't think you do the same.

Way in in in in in the American Army, I think you have a you have a an exit which is more celebrated that you put them that way.

I don't think you just leave your uni. Some some do and some don't. Yeah, it really, it really depends. I mean there are unfortunately stories you know, a soldier even who loses his leg and kind of they slide his discharge papers across the table like see yah. But there are other times, you know, I was very fortunate, you know, the guys gave me a plaque and said thank you and all this stuff, and it was a very nice axit.

Yes, okay, well it's not because I'm feeling sorry for myself, not at all.

I just I mean, why not why not? You know? Yeah? Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, but they don't get it.

Is that sort of what led to you writing your book, uh, Jagger? Because the people of that mark just don't really know what you guys do.

Yeah, sort of sort of. Part of it was. Another part was that I I really didn't what to do. I was forty in forty one years old, and I didn't have a clue what to do with my life.

So why not maybe write a book?

And I made I made a pitch, and I believed it could be a nice way to sort of work with these emotional dimension of the job that could be I think that could be helpful.

And that was that.

That was another part of the reason. So it was these two main reasons. Yeah, and then I pitched for some publishing companies. I got a four or five notes, and then I got a yes, and then I.

Started writing the book in two thousand and eight. Yeah, and tell us about the controversy when the book came out.

Yeah, of course I've cleared the book. I have some some lawyers, two lawyers to to to read the book before I went to before we published, I wrote to the Yega call listen, I'm I'm ready with my book, now do you want to read it? And it didn't manage to to to reply on that email. I got some of my teammates to read the book. So I was completely confident and sure that this book didn't reach my confidentiality Uh what they call it agreement?

What's the word? Yeah? Yeah, like a non disclosure agreement.

So but but then and then I just pushed pushed the button and it was was it was printed and by a coincident, it was discovered by by a journalist who interviewed the.

The defense minister and he called the Yega call.

The the the the the military command and said, what what this book coming from this Yega?

Do you know about that? Uh? And uh and they didn't.

So it was then it became a huge candle because the military they believed that I I reached my confident confidentiality agreement and they wanted to put me away for eleven years in or twelve years actually in prison and it was a huge candle in in in Denmark, so so I just went on the radar for the for the next twelve months.

During this this period, I was suspended from work.

I was interrogated by by the the the lawyers from from from the from the army, and at the end they came to the conclusion that they wouldn't do anything further with this book. And and they they they I was put back into service again. Uh, and and doing my my the rest part of my of my service in the military outside the eecago in another unit, national count unit.

I was. I was doing that so huge cancel.

But but no, completely stupid. Instead of bracing the book and making some pr but that they choose to make this big, big scandal.

I was going to ask, I mean, did all the controversy actually help sell the book?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Denmark.

I mean if you sell, if you sell ten thousand books in Denmark, it's a bestseller.

Yeah yeah.

I think seven days after my release, I had sold thirty thousand books. And now it has sold totally including the foreign market in Germany, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Bulgaria, it has sold I think four hundred and fifty thousand copies. Now that's amazing, that's huge. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of a lot of books in Sweden and Norway, but of course obviously most in Denmark.

But it's it's a lot, it's a so I I didn't complain, but it wasn't my intention to.

Make to make this controversy. It was not my intention. My intention at all. I just wanted to make to write a good story about about you know, about being a soldier. But it didn't turn out that way, and I made some good money.

And that I'm I'm biased, of course, as I said earlier on, I mean, I think it's a great book.

It's called Jagger at War with the Elite.

You guys can find it now, obviously in Danish, also in English.

I hope you guys will check it out.

And after Yager came out, you wrote some novels too, right.

Yes, I've been writing five novels and and uh two books.

What do you call it? This motivational type of books. Yeah, yeah, like leadership inspiration that sort of thing.

Yes, yeah, yeah, but five novels about my my main character, Michael Plisner, and of course he's a x X jeger uh and they take place different places in Somma.

Yeah.

I went down three times to Somalia to make research in two thousand and twelve to interview this tribe which is in my second novel, which is called Black Dawn. They take place in Greenland. The third in this area is called dead Man's Bay. It takes place in Greenland in the main in the capital nuk and then on the Kola Peninsula Russian formal submarine based just on the border on Finland, and then about human trafficking as well.

So that's the subjects. Are are those books available in English? No? No, I would like to.

Yeah, I would like to, but it's difficult as a Dane. I mean, it's very difficult as a Dane because you have.

All your your your your one yourself.

You're right, I know, Jacks, So it's very difficult for a tiny Ran nation. For me to to penetrate the foreign market is very difficult. But obviously I would like to. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'd love to see it too. I love to read them.

And then what are some of you also got involved in a bunch of TV projects, right.

Yeah, it's a British format. It's called Corps.

The right stuff, and it's just it's it's it's it's basically reality TV, but it's quite fun. And we have these fifteen students and in a period of eight days we we we make this condensated version of the election calls and then you know, one, two, three, maybe three finish and it's broadcasters on on on Daish television. It's it's good, it's good fun and it makes makes me a little you know, exposed, so so I can do some more lectures and make some more money.

So that's cool. That's okay. How many seasons of the show have you done? Eight? Oh?

Wow, okay, I've been participated in six.

I declined the last season because I want to. Yeah, we couldn't agree in the contract.

And you said there's something else that you're working on with Colombia.

Yeah, I just mentioned it because it might be interesting, but I mean, it's it's it's a Danish series or I don't know whether it be interesting for you at all.

But I just went to Columbia.

I went to Columbia in twenty twenty two for for one month, and the mission was to to to show the Cathills dominance in Colombia in producing cocaine. They have never been produced so much cocaine globally as there is now, and they will never been been consumed so much cocaine as there is now. So I was embedded with with the Colombia and special forces called Columbiu what they called Comando Jumbler in Sarah.

Yeah, pled pleasure to be with these these guys.

And I went into the jungle with them in their black hawks and we identified cocaine labs and UH and blew them up. And I was just with with with my camera crew, camera man and UH and in his rots and I was in the lapse in the jungle for this for this period of period of time, and also lived with a cocaine farmer and his son for

With a white powder.

And we just and what that was the the the the the laboratories we we demolished, and also had the opportunity to interview some some people from the biggest cartel in Colombia called Clandale Golfer, a hit man from Clandale Golfer.

I interviewed crazy, crazy guy.

His his his living was just his work was get up in the morning and kill people. And he just got you know, a hit list every day and two three people he went out just to bank, to to to to to eliminate them. Four weeks because I did four weeks because before I made my interview, he had to kill a pregnant woman. He didn't like that, but that was his life and it was fucked because he couldn't just resign. He was fucked in in the cartel. I mean that just let the people that don't let

And that's gonna be Danish television, yes, and Danish television yeah. Yeah.

Anything else going on today, Thomas, that you want to tell people about anything going on either in your life or your career or anything that you want.

Folks to know, Well, no, not nothing of interest.

I can I don't think so okay, it would be too boring to tell My life is a little bit boring these days, so I hopefully I can find that that way out.

Yeah, where can people find you on the on the internet if they want to reach out to you?

Uh, Thomas Hotsock email dot com. Okay, I have my I have my website website Thomas Hotsuck dot d k DK obviously for Denmark, and then I'm on Instagram Thomas on the sc redside as well.

We'll have links down the description for podcast listeners or YouTube viewers. You guys will be able to find that stuff down there.

Ud.

Do we have any questions for Thomas, No, no questions. Okay, So that's it. Thomas will let you go. I know it's quite late where you are in your neck in the woods and Denmark. Really appreciate you though, making the effort to dial in today and do this interview.

Thank you pleasure finding me. Thank you very much. All Right, we.

Will see all you guys next time. Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show. If you've been watching it enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this. You can check out our Patreon It is patreon dot com slash the Teamhouse, and for five dollars a month you can get access to all of these episodes of

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