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Coberts, Aspiona, The Team House with your Hopes, Jack Murphy and David Bark.
Hey, everyone, welcome to episode two hundred and eighty nine of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with Dave Park and our guest on tonight's show. Really happy to see once again after like fifteen sixteen years, is Alan Shaborro.
Alan has a background in jiu jitsu and also in US Special Forces, starting off in the National Guard and then he served in Third Special Forces group with B two three and then back to the National Guard, and then it's had a very interesting post service career as well. We'll talk about all of that. Alan, thanks for joining us tonight.
Thank you for having me appreciate it.
So, you know, the question I kind of start off all of our guests on is asking about their origin story. If you could tell us a little bit about you know, what your upbringing was like, and you know, I sensed two of the big things in your life, jiu jitsu and the military. How did those things start to enter in you know, in your childhood or early adulthood.
Uh, really get my ass kicked all the time. See that actually had an effect of one of the reasons why I wanted to go into UH Special Forces, specifically just for the motto deal persively bear When I was actually raised overseas, spent most of my time. I spent five years in Saudi Arabia, seven years in Italy, two years in Austria, and five years in Germany.
So what what branch was your dad in?
So my father was actually an Air Force that's but he only spent four years in the Air Force and then it was a DoD civilian. Cool it was a Middle Eastern European naval central command controller. That's why we actually spend a lot more time in certain places instead of like the traditional three year rotations.
Cool. So, yeah, significant experience abroad from an early age. And uh, and then as you become a young adult, Uh, where do you where do you see yourself going? You know, by the time you're in high school.
Man, I was the skinny skater and turned into transitioned into snowboarding. I started skating probably when I was twelve years old, and then we ended up moving to Germany, where there was there was either snow or rain on the ground like sixty seven percent of the time. So but we're at the base of the Zuchbitz. So I was really fortunate to be able to live in Garmer's pot and kick and we're right now that you have
the air for ceel of Ice. If you ever get a chance, Man, it's one of the most beautiful places ever been. But I I was going snowboarding like every weekend, and so I had a real rare opportunity to be able to snowboard all the time. And I got into that big time, and I kept doing that. So I went active duty in ninety five after graduating in ninety four, so I went in. I went in active duty ninety
five and got out of few years later. Was going to school down at the Southwest Texas, Texas State University now and then I was in the reserves. I was a drill sergeant. So I switched to MOSS from lightweight vehicle mechanic to Artillery thirteen Bravo and was a drill sergeant. Did my trail time up at Fort Sill in Oklahoma, and uh, I was going to school at the University of Texas at Arlington because that was the closest school that I could find that was next to where I
was training jiu jitsu. So there was only one black belt at the time, and that was Collas Machado in Dallas. So I started jiu jitsu when I was in Fort Hood and uh, just that came my addiction. My first tournament, I weighed at the one hundred and forty five pounds one hundred and forty seven point five to be exact, and so I went from the skinny, scarny kid that always got his ass kicked, you know, to well it
kind of I went overboard. I went up like two hundred and fifty something when I was you know, an active duty that's all. And I remember team Yeah, but uh, you know, kind of settled back down recently, probably the last ten eleven years. I've been at a constant like between two fifteen or two twenty five. Yeah, it's resistant.
That's really cool. I didn't know that you had so much army experience before you even started getting into special operations. I mean, you've got what a drill sergeant, all this stuff going on all before nine to eleven.
Yeah, And it was actually so and that was a really big influence. When I grew up in Italy was during the early eighties and up until like eighty eight. Then we moved to technically it was well we moved there when it was West Germany actually, so before the wall came down and before whether there's still the Soviet Union, and so there was a lot of World War Two people that were alive during World War Two that remember, you know distinctly, you know, the American liberators, you know
how they liberated Italy and they liberated Germany. And so when you're you know, you grow up in that, you know, you have this overwhelming sense of pride and service, you know, because I mean I grew up literally like right across the street. I would watch you know, the guys in the bubblebee PT uniforms, you know, doing PT and you know, every morning, and I thought it was like the coolest thing ever, and and it was. It was something that
always influenced me. And they moved into Germany, and hearing the same thing throughout all my teen years, you know, really stuck with me. And so when nine eleven came around, and that was that was like my calling and like I felt like that was you know, I needed to to kind of do what my the people previously had done, you know in World War Two, and serve my country and you know, do whatever it needed to be done to protect it.
Whereabouts were you, you know, not just geographically, but where were you professionally at that time when nine to eleven happened.
I was going to school at the University of Texas at Arlington, so I was actually a student that morning. I remember waking up and just turning on the TV and the news is on. I was like, I don't want to watch this. I clicked to another one, and clicked to another one and clicked to it. Every single channel had the exact same thing on. And I remember calling the girlfriend that I had at the time. I was like a turn on TV and she was like
what channel? I said, any and it was it was definitely a day I'll never forget, you know, but and it was it was. I remember that day. I called up my reserve unit and I thought we were going to be doing something like, you know, going down range and you know, maybe training dissoldiers somehow I didn't know. And they're like, now we're gonna we're going to mobilize you to like Fort Seoul, Oklahoma for a two year rotation. And I was like, get the I'm not doing that shit.
So I started like a because I just didn't re enlisted in the drill SARN unit in July of two thousand and one, and so I was doing this admin battle to try to get out, and yah, the easiest thing I could do was to transfer from the Reserves to National Guard and the Mississippi unit that was second
of the twentieth. So I was doing like an eight hour drive one way just to get to the unit do that four day pre s fas that they had and eight hour drive back and I did that for like nine months, and they kept dragging it out, and so finally I got a selection date and start doing all that and made it through selection, packed up everything and had it back out to for brag.
Yes, so we were going through the Q course. What two thousand and six, I believe.
Let's see selection jump. Yeah, yeah, because I started, I started in September. I don't know, October two thousand and five too, No, yeah, it was the end of it was some November two thousand and five and then into two thousand and six.
Yeah, and I remember that you were still very passionate about jiu jitsu at the time.
I know.
I don't know if you remember this. You remember you took us up to range thirty seven one day and that instructor, that huge dude, just like rocked us off the walls. It was awesome though.
Yeah. What was his name was it ron?
I wish I could remember. I just remember it being like six foot five.
Yeah, damn, I can't remember now, I've been hitting the head so many times.
He was a nice guy, man, he went, he went, you know, we're in the full like Redman suit for people out there watching this. He went, like, man, to man with everybody in the class, like, you know, probably twenty guys back to back.
It was crazy. That was good times.
Manis so what was your experience then, like going you know, going through the Q course and do you have some sort of idea because I I sort of remember you being in the National Guard but seriously considering going active duty.
Well, while I was actually in the Q course going to the gym, there was always there's some guys that laid out matts and they were training and doing jiu jitsu there, and I just kind of popped my head and I was like, someone's training, so let me jump in on this. So I just went and I literally just got my black belt in two thousand and four, so being able to kind of and I mean I
was still had that bug. I was still addicted to it and still wanted to like do it as much as I could, and so it was like a like a fix for me, you know, just being able to jump on the mats and and so I kept going back in the same group and then I was like, you know, what's unique guys with and man, it's embarrassing and say but they're like, oh, we're a the sif I was like Centro shot. So it's like, man, you guys are like pogues.
Or what pretty jacked for a bunch of pogues.
And then uh, I mean the next time I saw him, I had to ask. I was like, you guys, said Siff, right, and you're like yeah, Like but you guys are you guys support the like? And they started laughing like no, siffs, commanders and extremists force. I was like, I didn't know, man, but uh, you know, after like I'd meet up with them all the time and uh and eventually they they were like, hey, man, why don't you you know, we can get you a meeting with the SAR major and
you know, we need a combatives instructor. So that was actually the reason why I was able to get to B two three straight out of the Q course and I went back to my National Guard unit and I was like, hey, guys, you know, I'm popping smoke and like, what do you mean I'm going active, I'm not staying here, And they're like, oh, they're going to promise you all this, and they're gonna promise you schools and safardig and deployments and everything, and I was like, yeah, they did, I'm
never going to give it to you. Okay, well I'll take my chances. So I signed out of that unit and signed me out. I went, I went back and signed in a group a couple days later, signed up Italian. A few days after that, man I was on a flight meeting my team down range, and so it was a it was a quick move.
Do you want to tell tell folks out there who're watching, like what the SIF was?
Who?
Maybe they don't know either.
So the commanders in Extremist Force was basically every group has one company that's that's sole purpose. So mission is the hostage rescue, direct action, counterters from, and counterinsurgency. So while the rest of the third group was going Afghanistan, we're actually going. All my rotations were in Iraq and I never got to go to Afghanistan. The fifth group and third group stood up the i CTF and the commanders in Iraq and we're pretty much doing the fit
mission there. But then we started which turned it on so well, and they had so much experience that we were doing missions alongside with them. But this is when when it was like really popping off, and you know, you know, two thousand and five six and seven was was really really rough in two thousand and eight. It started kind of simmer down a lot in two thousand and nine. Yeah, there wasn't really much going on then. I mean a lot of rs changed.
So take us back to you know, I'm just interested to ask, you know what that experience was like as a new guy jumping right into B two three and you know, drinking from a fire hose. I mean, what was that like for you?
Man? It was crazy? So the thing was is that I was my technically my first team song was Johnny Crocker and he, uh, but I got with excuse me not John Jeff Mountain. My second was Johnny Crocker, and I got assigned to five six. The on the snipes Walker Booth was actually my senior, So I really couldn't have gotten about a mentor. And and uh, I volunteered for for any position. Anytime I could go out, I went in. Uh. I was a driver, I was a gunner.
I carried special equipment, you know, ladders. Uh. It just it was my first deployment, so I didn't uh anything that I could get on. I volunteered for, you know whatever. It was just so I can get experience. It was a whirlwind, to be honest with you, because I got there. Man, I remember getting there, and I had met justin Munchkey.
He was actually from Denton, like you know, close areas, so i'd met him there and we talked for a little bit, and and the reality you know, of how rough it was getting, you know, set in when they pulled him off the chopper and they brought him in after he was killed. It was it was a I mean really high highs and really low lows at the
same time. It's such a condensed time for him because there was a team going out every single night, you know, So I was getting I was getting a lot of experience really fast.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean you you jumped right into it. As you said, the war was really pumping at that time. Soccer city so B two three and A one to five are kind of switching on and off, rotating in and out, and so I mean, if you can, could you go into like some more detail about what the experience was for you in Iraq?
It actually there was sometimes where I think some of the the I mean just because I was so new, I wasn't sure like what to expect and how to expect it. You know when to be all riled up and you know when to be calm, and you know kind of realize it looked around, you know, after a few times and realized, yeah, we get on target road. And there was sometimes I actually were getting pinged on the vehicles and there's still guys asleep, you know, they're so used to it, and it's like, man, this is
kind of crazy. But one distinct moment I remember was Talladagan Knights was kind of like the the big movie, you know that on deployment, and I remember I was going in. This was one of my first few times I was front security on the outside of the perimeter of the house that we were taking and we had we had taken a couple of pot shots on Target road. Didn't really hit anything distinctly. I think maybe the tail
end of the vehicle. But I remember stepping out of the vehicle and up taking like two three steps, and like ten inches from my foot there was a like a spark. You could hear that crack of the you know, I mean that close, and then another one like right overhead. You could I mean that the crack of the whip. You know, you could hear it, and man, I just I just froze. It was just like what felt like an eternity and a whole a sudden. My mind's raising, you know, Do I do I follow the team back
in to return fire. Do I, you know, find out where that shot came from and neutralize it? Do I? I mean so many thoughts in like a split second. And then I remember h Walker running by and he shoot at one of the windows and he's just like, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey boy, and Todd Ventleke comes right by him. He's like, shake
a bake, motherfucker's shake a bake. I was like, all of a sudden, like for some reason that that particular moment broke was broke the ice entirely for the rest of the time, like any other commet situation I was in, And it was just one of those things where you know, these guys are fucking cracking jokes, you know, middle of a firefight, and I mean snapped to it, you know, and everything just kind of like it went from like slow motion back to you know speed and you know,
regular speed and just kept going and everything just made sense after that. So I mean I would think that was like the like second or third time I was out, and it was just but it provided so much clarity, and I'm really glad I had the experience like so early on.
It sounds like from what you were describing that, like you said it was you lived a lot of life on like a very condensed time frame as far as the like highs and lows. How many rotations did you do over to Iraq two thousand and seven, eight and nine, Okay, okay.
So yeah, one a year and were there was like six month six month rotations?
No? No, No, My longest one was like just under five months. This just only will go out for about
four or four and a half months at most. That first one was about two and a half months because I got there almost in mid rotation, and then right after that I did and I wasn't even so far to qualified, So I mean I literally just I got done with the Q course and then din with the SITH and then UH as soon as I got back and you know, got through Sephardic, and then I got assigned to a team and I was with five to
two UH or three to two two two. There was still there was the transition of the three digit to the four digit that that year. So and then uh in two thousand and nine, after my third deployment is actually when I went to SODAIC. After my third deployment, so had two rotations SAPHARDA qualified but only but not of rotations, Uh, soda qualified.
That's pretty cool. And again, for like the public out there confused by these acronyms, could you tell them a little bit about Sephardic and sodic.
So SEPHARDIK is eight week assaulters course, everything like specializing in urban like CQB close quarters close quarters battle and it's basically like, uh, then that excuse me. That SODA is a Special Operations Targeting Interdiction course, which is the tier one UH sniper sniper course. And I think that was talk about that today. I think it was two thousand and nine they changed it to Special Forces Sniper Course.
Yeah. So the second deployment you were Sephardi qualified guy on a team was that back to Baghdad?
So citation We actually were into CURT doing missions out at the CRIT into Taji and then there was a insurgent rus in Missoul, So we literally packed up everything and kind of like a mid deployment deployment, you know, packed up all conicses and everything and headed up to Missoul. So we finished out in Missoul and then then uh oh nine was was back at Baghdad.
Okay, I mean, I'd be interested to hear about the experience in Missoul. I was there in five and then again in O nine. I'd just be interested to hear about what your experience was like in that in between time.
So there was and I remember coming back, you know that that entrance of Serpentine entrance the to go back had it that early. Yeah, yeah, in the very front of the h And there was actually a v bid when we actually came came back, and so it was pretty pretty active in attacks, but we primarily did UH.
That's when we started switching out the call outs a lot and UH and if there was any type of like for example, we had UH we were doing one and it was a really rural area but it was almost like a compound and one of our guys got hit with a grenade and everyone just said, you know what, we can't see ship, you know, with our even with our nods on, because it was like no ambient light and it was really that dark, and we just called in and you know, just leveled the place with double
barrack health fires. There wasn't actually anyone else in there. It was literally just a two that had come out. But I mean it was I think that was probably one of the the scariest moments, just because you know, they advantage that we have is with you know, night vision, you know, so you know, when that's stripped away and don't have any of that, and you know, we kind of like left in the dark literally. But yeah, the
most of them were call outs. There was a need for you know, gathering intel rather than you know just smoking everybody, and that paid off in the long run because we got who we needed and you know, able to you know, separate the people that really that could provide good intel and then let everyone else go, you know, so it wasn't a necessity to uh go in and just you know kill randomly or at all period. So
it was mainly a probably about ninety percent callouts. Very few firefights on that one, just because everything went so well, uh speed surprise VIDs to action, and I think a lot of people don't understand it. If you get in a firefight, it's not a good thing. You know, that usually means that something went really fucking wrong. You know. The nights that went well is you know when we got who we needed a target and brought them back and you know, gathered and tell to build onto the next one.
Yeah, when you shake them out of their bed fastest lee.
Yeah. Absolutely.
So your your cruising right along in your Special Forces career going to SODIC. And then I take it you were on the sniper troope.
No, actually, uh so I got back in on nine and then I went to SODIC. I had re enlisted actually just before I deployed it on nine and I got back and uh so this was like the the bonuses were maybe the one hundred and fifty thousand, you know, but I had a five year reenlistment and it was like a thirty seven thousand dollars bonus, and uh so, well, ma in soda, it's supposed to be hitting my account
sometime soon. And man, he came waiting the next week and the next week, and so I was like, you know, we just go back to relist in my office and see what's going on. So I went back and I was like, uh, what happened to my bonus, you know, like reenlisted and he's like, I'm pup your file and oh yeah, we needed to get a signature for FUM commander. It was like it's literally walking distance. Why couldn't you go get that? Like, oh well you can still reenlist, but you can't get the bonus now.
Oh my god.
I was like, uh, I was absolutely livid and man, and the way that the things were going, you know, to be honest with you, I wasn't, you know, especially like a O nine, I wasn't feeling like the things we're doing, we're too right. I started questioning a lot of things, and you know, with that happened, I guess I was like, you know what, I'm done with this now. So we had a I mean, there was a lot
of things. There was, you know, a couple of things in particular that happened one and A eight you know nine when we weren't even we were actually just following ictf in and then stopping at the you know and the outskirts of it and you know, support and advice
pretty much that was our mission set. But and if they needed support for like SEC but and it was started really kind of thinking hard about what was going on there, and uh, you know, I didn't feel right, you know, going back in and especially deploying with the doubts that I had.
Well, can you say doubts you mean about like tactically what you were personally doing or more like strategically the direction the war was going in.
Yeah, Well, when I went there, Man, that's the thing, man is you know, I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but I was really good at my job. And I think that was one of the things that I've wrestled with the most, is that, you know, I was really good at my job, but you know, we shouldn't have been there. I struggled with that a lot, and I kept it to myself and kind of like you know what,
you know, don't say anything. And you know, because growing up like I did in in Europe and hearing you know, being the liberators and being you know, the good guys, you know, just war and you know, we're standing for the right and we're you know, freeing to oppressed. I started thinking to myself like, man, if somebody came into my country who was doing the exact same thing, I'd
be doing exactly what they were doing. But I was like no, you know, I kept it to myself and just kind of struggle, you know, internally, until like later on we started you know, maybe there's like a big surprise at the end. You know, Afghanistan, same thing, and man, nothing came out of it. And I mean I still I firmly believe that we shouldn't have been there.
Yeah, I mean I get it. You tell yourself that you know, there's going to be some sort of democracy established in this country, things are going to get better for the people that live there. And then you know, in Iraq especially, we saw what actually happened there after we pulled out and ISIS came to town. It was like worst case scenario. And I'm sure the Afghanistan veterans feel exactly the same way about what they went through.
I mean, the primary mission in Afghanistan was to take the Talban out right, and then they ended up being the official government. I mean we had you know, thousands of US lives lost, you know, tens of thousands of Ghanty civilians you know that were get caught in there, you know that lost their lives, billions of dollars you know, wasted onto that, and the same thing in Iraq, I mean, I just I ask every veteran that's been in either
one of them, you know, what did we do? And and uh, I just I don't think we should have been there at all. I stand firm on that. You know, I'm not trying to by aly means. You know, I love my country, and yeah, no, I did what I was asked to do, but I firmly believe we should not have been there.
But it was after that incident with the Enlistment Office, you did one more pump over.
There or was that? No?
That was it?
That was like toward the I literally was, let's see, probably about nine months out from terminal leaf, okay, and then got out and twenty ten I opened up the school. I did two years in the National Guard just because it was local, and but man, that was so I got to the National Guard unit and I so I was in the SITH three rotations and this is when they were working with border patrol and doing like is it the counter drug operations? And I was like, yeah,
I get involved with that. That's that's something I can do. And then they're like, yeah, we're going to have you take over the or you be on the ASAT team.
I was like.
I don't have broken axle, I never have any experience in that, and you like, okay, we'll find something for you. So a few months later they come in, they're like, okay, you're going to take over the dive team like bro, like you guys guys have people that are dive qualified. Like yeah, like dude, I'm not dive qualified. That means that you want me to take over a team and be a team star. And you know with guys already have experience, have been through the school, and I don't.
I mean I was in a sif put me on like you know, an assaulters you know team or something, and uh They're like, well that's full, that's fool. That was like for the cool guys, I guess so man, I just I had enough of that and I wasn't really too keen on the mentality that they had there. And there were some good guys that, don't get me wrong, but a lot of the times that I mean, the
mission is what what kind of attracted me there? But I mean I told him I just opened up a business that I can't leave for for that long, and I mean I already completed ANOX so that wasn't going to be an issue. But to go to pre scuba, you know then and I would have been like two weeks and then go to dive school. I mean i'd have to. I just opened up a school. I have to be there, you know. And this was literally like everything I'd saved from all my deployments, you know, I
put into the school. I couldn't I couldn't leave.
That tell us a little bit about that school. I mean it was a school in a gym. I mean, what what what did you have going on?
So initially opened it up. This is after being kind of silent for like seven years while I was gone, so people knew me from before I left, but after I left, I mean I was living in North Carolina, so it was like a whole new generation of of from white belts to pretty much black belts. I really didn't know who I was. So I called I opened up my gym called Tier One Training Facility, and man, I'll be honest, it was. It was a massive struggle
at first because I was new to doing business. I was literally reading books, you know, small Business for Dummies. And the break that I had because I had, like, man, I'm month to month I was bringing in like three or four students because I had to open up in an industrial area. Did I have that many people? And uh? I was like, man, how I'm gonna make this work?
You know, I mean I'm in a legit black belt and I had there was like an mm A forum and uh, because I was checking the analytics like every day, like you know, to have any hits on my website is everyone looked, you know, and I had like maybe three four hits a day. It was horrible. And then all of a sudden, you know, someone says, hey, man, you know there's on an MMA forum. There's someone that's
talking about you. And the title of the thread was Special Forces Navy Seal Ranger opens up, you know, self proclaimed black belt and there's like four pages just people just talking shit, just constantly. And I was like, and I talked to him like what is this? You know, who's who's saying all this? Because there's no names on there, it's just pseudonyms and and man, I was about to jump on there and just start ripping them. But I looked at my analytics. Man, I had like twenty four
thousand hits. You know, I was like, oh, back up, back up, can't do anything. Go and keep going, keep going. That was my big break, man. It's literally someone talking shit about me. And because at the end of like it was like four four pages worth and and someone had been you know, because the guy who apparently trained at Carlos Machado school, which is where I got my black belt, and they're like, hey, man, go into the
changing room. There's this big, old framed like green beret, you know, with a picture of him and Carlos Machado. What he you know, and he got his black belt from Carlos, you know. So he's absolutely jit and a thread list ended. I was like, oh damn it, you know. But it came to abrupt end and you know, people started coming in. I started, you know, getting some of my and man, it was it was a really really nervous rough start. I'm be honest with you. I had a lot of anxiety.
Man.
Who were the were they mostly like beginners, you know, brand new white belts that were coming in.
Oh white belts. Man. That So the thing was is that I still had my I mean, I was, you know, getting into Olympic weightlifting and CrossFit you know, before I left. I started that when I was at in Fayetteville, and so I my athletic simo was going up, and uh so by the time I actually was was back, I wanted to get back into competing, and I feltured that would be a good way to kind of make my name,
you know, known around there. And so I bet oh I had was White Belts and had to figure out how to wait to kind of utilize that the students that I had to actually train because I didn't have much free time, and uh so it was actually probably the most beneficial things for me personally, was was being able to change my tempo and be able to kind of ease off on pressure and you know, so I could actually move fast around them, but they're still moving.
It's kind of like have lack of better terms, and I don't mean this in any way bad way, but like a training gummy, but I mean I competed at the Worlds in two thousand and twelve and took third and then pan Amasa took second. Wow, And this is like the early days on so it was it didn't actually start picking up until like twenty twelve, twenty thirteen at the school, and I kept competing, I mean until you know, twenty twenty two, or excuse me, twenty twenty
one was my last jiu jitsu competition. In twenty twenty two, I did. I take that back. Twenty two I was competing introducers too, but on a pro platform, And twenty twenty two was the last competition I did, but it was in judo at Judah Worlds in Poland.
It's interesting to hear you talk about like the growing pains, which I think is like very common for veterans getting transitioning into the civilian world, and specifically when it comes to dojo's. I've had guys tell me in the past, like dudes who were super badass fighters, but they didn't necessarily have the business acumen to run the gym. But I mean, clearly you figured it out and started doing something right.
And I'll be honest with you. You know I had a lot of help.
There was.
I mean, I did a lot of reading, but you know, people that were like real computer savvy and understood like the whole you know, what was it the Google ads and you know, social media algorithms and things like that. Once I started kind of into that learning that, excuse me, I really started everything started picking up a lot more twenty fourteen. I think in twenty fifteen is when it really started going well and and I established a name for myself, you know, not just as being like a
legitimate fighter, but a good coach as well. And it really panned out. So I literally got to live my dream. So it really worked out well.
Out of curiosity, you know, when you you would you were a black belt before you got into powerlifting, and you know a lot of really heavy strength training.
I take it.
Did did you find that it changed your approach to jiu jitsu? Did you did it change your style of how.
You rolled it? I don't think I could have had a better way of coming up in jiu jitsu being one hundred and forty five pounds and then learning, you know, because I was a big guy that had a small man's game. I literally had to have. I remember training at Travis Luter's place when I was a purple belt and he was so frustrated with me. He yelled at me across the room everyone's training. He's like, God, damn it, Alan, you're a big guy, You're two hundred and five pounds.
Start acting like one. Get on top. Because I was always playing a little man's game on the bottom and I looked up and I was like, why's he yelling at me? But he was right, you know, And so I started playing a very top side game. From the time, I was like purple belt all the way up. But the thing was is that if I got swept or reversed, I was totally That was like where I came up from. So I was completely fine on my back as well.
And then the Olympic weightlifting is probably what changed the entire dynamic, because I mean I got so involved into Olympic lifting and was still kind of vault and CrossFit, but I found a passion for Olympic lifting, and I mean I ended up having like a you know, three seventy clean uh, two seventy five snatch uh. And it all translated into jiu jitsu because I was still in the same weight class. I was still in super heavy
that was under two hundred and twenty pounds. So I kept my size, you know, I toned my size down from where it was, but so I had the the endurance from CrossFit, I had the and from you know, of course training multiple rams in jiu jitsu and specialized in the training for competition and then I also had the strength that went along with the Olympic weightlifting more
than anyone else. And when you're when you're training, it's entirely different than because in competition you have like a rule set, you have a weight class, and so there's a there's definitely a different dynamic than than if you're just training, and uh, of course there's a time limit. And man, it was a great combination. It really worked out well.
It's the Olympic weightlifting, I mean for people who might not be familiar with that. Compared to you regular weightlifting, it's a lot of explosive power.
Right absolutely, So you're basically like it's a it's a two event sport where you have you know, the snatch, which is you're trying to bring the bar up overhead in one movement, and then you have the clean and jerk, which is two movements to get it overhead. And so you know, speed and precision are definitely as one hundred more than anything else technique, but people don't understand it. You're you're lifting the bar like a thousand times to
get it right once and twenty thirteen. So I got into it two thousand and eleven, like specifically in like Olympic weightlifting. Twenty twelve, I started competing. Twenty thirteen, I took I took first place at Texas State nash Texas State Championships and had two state records, so it panned out. But that was actually like what laid the foundation for my my strength training into jiu jitsu in fourteen, fifteen, sixteen or I actually uh, I think at twenty fourteen,
I was ranked fourth in the world. Twenty fifteen I was competing so much. Twenty sixteen, it took second at Europeans, which is the largest tournament in the world, and they had like three thousand something competitors. Second at Panems and it was just it did wonders from my competition though, it really did.
It's incredible and it's interesting, like as we're having this conversation and you had mentioned, I think before we started the sh show, like we've been talking about sort of your moving the chapters through your life, you know, time, special Forces, the gym, and what was kind of the next chapter for you after the gym, and you know, it sounds like, you know, winding down the competitions. Also, so.
I got into judo because in two thousand. It was two thousand and fourteen. I believe I lost to a guy.
I usually I used the wrestling takedowns, but in a GI there was a guy that had beat me strictly because he was able to manipulate the ge in a fashion where I couldn't use my wrestling, and I was like above and beyond frustrated with that, and I was determined, like that was that would never happen again, and so I started getting into judo strictly for jiu jitsu is like cross training for jiu jitsu interesting and man, I I ended up fighting that guy again and uh and
took him down twice. The next time, I made a stupid mistake and kind of fell back into wrestling mode and they manipulated the gia and choping. So I learned my lesson on that. But the more I started training into judo for cross train, the more I kind of fell in love with that. And then I started competing in judo, and then I started getting really involved in it, Like twenty seventeen, eighteen twenty seventeen, I got my black belt in judo, and then I was competing at mainly State.
A couple of ones you know out of town. I won US Nationals in twenty twenty one, and my last competition was at JUDOH Worlds. I think I took like fifth and that was I was an ass whooping. I lost to a guy from Azerbaijan, So I mean it was it was an incredible competition though, just no regrets.
Yeah, I mean, you're still kicking ass, competing in all of these different forms, including weightlifting, and you're not getting any younger either. I mean that's I'm not trying to take jabs at you. I mean, it's impressive that you're you had that kind of longevity as an athlete.
Yeah. I think it's the training that actually kind of keeps me in in the shape that I'm in. I mean, I'm kind of fortunate. I've only had I had to have complete reconstructive surgery on my right shoulder. I had to have surgery on my neck, fractured my C sixty seven, and I mean that was the only two surgeres ever had though. And I mean, don't get me wrong, I've I mean I've torn some tens and broke those things like that, but I think to really keep me out
of it, just banish it up and keep going. So it's pretty fortunate that's that's only things that I've had.
And there's the next chapter in your life. I mean, can you tell us what came after and kind of like bringing us closer to today, because I think it's pretty interesting what you're up to nowadays.
So last year, I got a call from a good friend of mine I've known for like twenty years but just we just haven't kept in contact, but I'm knowing him for a while and it reaches out and he's like, yeah, I'm the I'm the president for the National Cutting Horse Association. And I was like, I have no idea what that is. He's like, oh, it's a rodeo event. But now the reason I'm calling is because we have a fundraiser for special operations, different charities that we're raising money for. And
I was like, absolutely, man, I'm in. And I started We DeFi Foundation with Joey Bosick back in twenty fifteen, using jiu jitsu's form of therapy for combat disabled veterans to reintegrate back into society, and so we're trying to raise money for we TOFI And so he explained to me like what the sport was and you know, of course I'm in. I had to call him back like ten minutes later. It's like, hey, man, did you want
me to actually get on a horse. He's like, yeah, of course you want to be a part of it. And I was like, yeah, but I've never ridden a horse. And he's like, oh, you'll be fine, You'll be all right. So, man, I got on a horse for the first time last year to actually ride around and for cutting horses are like the Bugattis of horses. They're like, are the most athletic horses that you can find. They're so agile and fast.
I mean, it's it's my whole goal last year was just not to fall off and and again it's just an exhibition show. But I managed to get third last year, and the coach that I had invited me out, uh to keep riding at his ranch and uh, man, I don't know. That was probably the worst idea because he hasn't been able to get rid of me since I just fell in love with the sport. I just love I love horses now and just the peace and tranquility.
You know, he's been able to, you know, trust me to be able to go, you know, out in the ranch and move cows and to me, I mean, honestly, there's there's it's uncomparable. Honestly, Like, I haven't found something like this since I started jiu jitsu. So Jay Wimborne that the who was the president of n c CHA, introduced me to it, and Bruce Maureen has been my coach. And I'm telling you that I owe so much to
those two men because they literally changed my life. It really has and opened me up to like a whole new world. Amazing.
Yeah, well, what do you think it was that kind of like took you from you know, the very martial arts driven background that you have to something totally different really, and it's learning something new.
It's not just learning something new, but it's something so drastically new, you know, because you have to have this symbiotic type relationship with the horse and they're, like I said, there's so athletic and so fast that you know you have to be it's basically just trying to stay out of their way, like Okay, I'm going to get you to hear and then you're going to take over and then if you need like a reminder, I'll tap you on where to go, you know. But you have like this,
this relationship with no words. It's it's all physical and they are absolutely there's some of the most sensitive and creatures that that are out there. And I remember walking up to the horse for the first time and that horse started back in a way because I was scared out of my mind. Man, I've never been that close
to a horse, you know what I mean. I'm like gonna and they're like, no, you have to walk sideways, and then you have to you know, have them smell your you know, the brush that you're gonna put on them, and then when you walk around, I'm like, and this this is how of a safety brief?
Man?
Am I gonna get kicked? And they're gonna tramples because they're just huge. They're beautiful creatures though, and and once I started getting comfortable with them, I just I couldn't get to stay away. The there's a lot of organizations now that actually use equine therapy, as you know, for
for mental health, and man, I I wouldn't. One of the things that we do with and we defy is we provide scholarships for for veterans combat disaleed veterans to be able to go train at a school that has been approved by we DeFi to make sure that the school is able and willing to accept the combat disabled
veteran that could have physical or mental disabilities. Unfortunately, ninety four percent of the veterans that we have come through the program or with mental disabilities, a lot of them with TBI and PTS and show all the signs and symptoms of CTE. But so we provide a scholarship for them for a year and man a lot of them stay on after the scholarship to become like mentors or ambassadors.
And now we have like I think it's over eight hundred affiliates nationwide different jiu jitsu schools that are jumped on the program. We've put over I think fourteen hundred veterans to the program and four hundred ambassadors. And the best part of this, no one gets paid in the foundation. So we're still at that point now where it's all volunteer, no one makes money off of it, and we think is eighty four percent of every dollar goes back to the veteran.
Where can people find the organization if they want to get involved.
We define foundation dot org okay, And one of the victories that we have though, is if we have someone that quits and says, man, you know, I love this, but I found you know, yoga, I found rock climbing. You know, to us, that's a win.
You know.
So if people can find you know, their their their peace of mind and you know, find their solution through equine therapy, you know, that's absolutely a win for us as well, because the goals is for the veteran to get better, and there isn't anything you know that's We're not going to say no, you can't do that. You have to stay with you know. But it's a win
for us too. It's a win for them. It's a win for us, and you know, we're glad that they were able to, you know, find the connections to jiu jitsu or you know, because that's a lot of the big part of it is this networking. And I mean that's exactly how I got into this was Jay was actually doing jiu jitsu and he remembered me from doing that and asked me to be a part of the show. So, I mean, it's it's definitely a win and I highly recommend if anyone gets a chance to get equine therapy
to give it a shot. You know, it does, wonders absolutely does.
And you've also taken become a bit of a world traveler in recent months. Tell us a little bit about that. Where you've been, what you've been up to.
So I so after October seventh, I was getting a lot of it's doing a lot of research, reading a lot of books, and I kept getting conflicting information. I was getting really frustrated with it, especially when I was talking to people about it, and like, you don't know, you don't know, you don't know, And so I was like, you know what I need to find out. I needed
I need to find out on my own. And I started getting like a bug for travel about last year because I really like I was going to different I was going to Germany, I was, you know, visiting my friends there, and my mother lives in Italy, so I get an opportunity to go see her. I traveled out to Poland, and I just love experiencing, you know, different cultures and different things. So I felt that the only thing that was kind of keeping me in place was
the school. So I sold to school in April, jumped on a plane and I was in England for a little bit and then went to Germany, into Austria and then flew into Jordan across the border, and well, I never got to fulfill this. But one of the guys that that was in tenth group was working for a company called GMR Global Medicine Responses, and they provide security
to surgeons in different combat areas. And I jumped on a call with them and try to get a team leader position to provide security for surgeons going into Gaza, because I thought that would be the best way for me to find out what's going on. And so I got touched for them and ended up in the West Bank and waiting for a call. I was just staging out of the West Bank, you know, and never got
the call for that. But yeah, while I was in the West Bank, I first spent about about ten days in Bethlehem, and then a lot of the things that were going off the hotspots were actually in Hebron. So I moved out to Hebron, got an apartment and just kind of start experiencing things for myself and see what was going on. Specifically, I just wanted to experience it, and it was there's an eye opening experience at least.
Yeah, I mean, tell us about that. I mean, any as you point out yourself. I mean, there's so much conflicting information coming out of the region. And when people challenged you and said, well you don't know, you know, you were like, well, okay, I'm going to go find out and actually went there. I mean, I'd be interested to hear what your experience was like.
So one of the things is that you hear is well before I left a lot of people. I told a few people about it and and they're like, well, where are you going to be spending your time? And I was like, well, I'll be waited in the West Bank. They're like, I'll be careful, be careful. You know, you can't trust those people. And so I kept hearing that. You know, after a few times, I was like, wait
a minute, who are you talking about. You're talking about you know, the Israelies or the Palestinians, Like the Palestinians, I mean Hamasca take you hostage. And I was like, oh, okay, so we'll see how that goes. So when I got to I was Bethlehem is very much like a touristy type place. So the first thing I kind of noticed was there was there's different types of Sharia law. But I mean, I'm not sure if you've been like Bahrain or anything like that, or Dubai and Bahrain and both
under Sharia law, but I mean you can. I mean Dubai is like Las Vegas for the Middle East. They so liquor there and beery at the restaurants. Everything. Buttlam's kind of similar, same, very similar. Excuse me. And I wasn't expecting that. And then when I left Bethlehem and was going to Hebron, I got there early in the morning and I think around six, and none of the businesses open there until like eight or nine. And my SIM card wasn't working on my phone, and so I
had no GPS. So I was supposed to have like a contact meet me and to give me a ride. And I was taking the service, which is like a shared taxi, and so I get there, I don't speak the language. The Arabic that I learned at the Q course was like not no, no good at all because they speak leven teen and I hadn't spoken ever like fifteen years. So I literally waved down the first person
I could see him, just pointing. The only thing that saved me had a screenshot of like where it was supposed to be, and so like, literally, can you help me out, like pointing at my phone, and uh, he just is, you know, just wait here. So kind of like we're waiting by the side of the street and the first person that walks or drives by, he flags down and he speaks to every to him, I couldn't understand. He's like, okay, get it fudded fuddled, like go go.
I was like, oh shit, this is how this shit starts. You know, I'm getting rolled up real fast, and uh. And he took me like a couple of miles up the road and it's a lot of hills. So I'm really glad I did, but dropped me off exact where we're supposed to go, and he's like, okay, yeah, that's it. I was like, so I was trying to give him money. He's like, ah, go go. It's like, you know, sugur, thank you. I appreciate that. And he's like problem mish mushka,
you know. So I was like, oh, that's crazy. So I still had a lot of apprehension just because of the things that I'd heard, and then man, I honestly have never met more welcoming people in my entire life. The most I've never heard the word welcome more in my entire life than I did the two months that I spent there. Everywhere I went I had to add like twenty thirty minutes to my walk because random people, whether it be in front of a cafe or shop owner. I mean, I don't blend there at all.
I want to talk and.
So like hey, come, come, welcome, Come, come, welcome, Welcome, Sit coffee, coffee, Sit, Sit.
And man, I was wired for days. It's the little shots, you know, they're super thick, but man, I honestly that was that was probably one of the most craziest experiences.
And so you know, for like a month, I didn't really have I didn't sign up with any organization or you know, human rights organization or anything like that until about a month in and I met up with an organization called Human Defenders and then another one called CPT Palestine, and and then I met the chief photographer for Routers Media and that was probably one of the best cans context that I got because he was actually able to take me on some of the stories he was working
on and then kind of kept me updated with different things that were going on in the area because he had different journalists that were working to areas around the West Bank and like up to date things, you know, so that was kind of that was crazy contact. That was phenomenal. But Musa was uh, he spoke really good English and you know, was able to explain a lot to me and you know, took me around Hebron and
but h as as conservative as Hebron was. And they said welcomed first and then asked me where I was from.
You know.
So I think that that that says a lot though, because they welcomed me in and then wanted to do where I was from versus I mean, I could have been just as well, you know, Israeli. I mean, because that's only people I either saw with tattoos, you know, and I honestly don't think they would have cared. They just they saw someone that looked different and definitely was
a foreigner, and they welcomed me in. I had my neighbors in the apartment building that I was at brought me in for if hard to an aid in their family meals and welcome me in. Other neighbors. I remember someone knocking on my door and a little girl that was holding like a bowl of fruit and dates and things like that, you know, you know, for if Tarid Aid Mobatak, and it was and I love the people there, honestly, They're beautiful people.
It's incredible some of these parts of the world where people take you into your into their homes like that, and it's just you don't you almost don't know what to say.
Absolutely. But and then the other part of it was, you know, seeing how horrendously they were treated. I had a gun drawn on me nine times in two months by the Israeli occupation forces out there. I mean literally I was walking through the old city and uh, they have these literally a settlement like a you know, uh design a settlement there and they have these like gates on the top and uh, you know with these fencing because they throw things down at the at the Palestinians.
And man, it was I'm just probably like two o'clock in the afternoon, I'm walking by, and I look up and I see a guy in a guard tower and he kind of looks down and I'm just kind of like curious to why he's like agitated. And then I see him on sling and then just points directly at me. And just kind of like, Okay, that's gonna be great.
But at checkpoints, you know, them coming by the passenger side and drawing the weapons porn directly at me and then you know, demanding the passport and so like it happened like two three times at a checkpoint, you know, a couple of time in the Old City, just randomly.
Anytime I was kind of like it was a checkpoint and just kind of like a necessity to pull out the gun and kind of show, you know, you know that they're that they're there, I guess, you know, yeah, And I think one of the big things was seeing the apartheid while in the West Bank was definitely one of those. I mean, it really had me thinking a lot, because you know there's signs that say, you know, danger Palestinian sides. Only you know, on Israeli is not allowed,
Israeli citizens not allowed. The only people that I saw that were quote unquote Jewish were the settlers and occupation forces and so the Palestinians and they call themselves Jews by the way, I mean so, but they're the ones
that are taking over Palestinians. They're the ones that are doing the raids, you know, and and busting into people's apartments and in their homes and either just you know, taking in and thrashing the place, or you know, taking him in for questioning for whatever reason, harassing them at that checkpoints. And so if you have and they don't
see anybody else, you know. So I think, in my opinion, I think there's a lot more of a psychological aspect to the Apartheid Wall then there is physically a little bit what that wall is alan it's a wall that's surrounding all of the West Bank, separating the Israelies creators
really from the West Bank itself. And I actually got to see, uh, you know the artist Banksy, Yes, so he has a hotel there called it's a it's a spin off the Waldorf Hotel called the wald Off Hotel and uh and his art is actually all over the place in the West Bank for understands and Gaza too, but he has his hotel there and all the windows the view is always from you know, into the wall. So it got the theme there, and I mean it
goes down as far as you can see. It's like this massive like twenty five foot wall, concrete wall, and I think it's you know, to keep you know, the Israelis from seeing you know that you know, how good
these people really are. I think that if there was a lot more of a type like human connection where people could actually talk to each other, there'd be I think that whole myth would kind of fall apart, you know, because they're taught from a very young Israelis are taught from a very young age that these people are like they hate them and they want to kill them. And it's just not the case at all, honestly, the as
different as I was, and there was no reason. And that's the other thing too, It's it's not a religious thing whatsoever, because you know, when I was in Bethlehem, you know, there were Christians and Muslims living side by side in along just like anyone. There's women wearing hit jobs.
The women who wear hit jobs. So it's not like an Iranian state where you have to you know, where they have like the moral police going around and you know, or like Afghanistan where if you're not wearing it, you know, you'll get beaten or something. I think that's more of
like a government policy than anything else. But yeah, there, I mean, I never had hit the fact that I was atheists, you know, and you know, I was always you know, thinking that if you read you know, the you know, anyonere online that you know, it's all the Muslim countries, that it's a capital punishment to be an atheist. But no one gave a shit. Everyone was fine with it. One of the guys, and one thing I can respect about a lot of the Muslims, they actually memorize the Koran.
They read it, memorize it. And one of the guys I was talking to said, yeah, asked me if I was Christian. I was like no, I was like, are you Muslim? No, you're Jewish. No. He's like so he kind of looked at He's like Hindu. I was like no, I was like, I'm atheist. He's like, huh, so, so you're a seeker. It's like, what do you mean. And he's like, so you're seeking knowledge. You're trying to seek the knowledge to try to make a decision. I was like, yeah,
I can go with that. Yeah, so even being atheist, no one cared.
You know, well, I mean that kind of literally is why you were there though, even if it wasn't a religious context.
Yeah, absolutely it was. You're absolutely right, it was to seek knowledge, to experience things for myself. And I went to schools. I looked at the books, you know, in different different grades to make sure, you know, because one of the things I saw was mind com inside the books and I'm making you know, how to make bombs and you know, taught in their classes, and they didn't
see any of that. And like, honestly, I just you know, a lot of the things that I've been told is that they're just evil, vile people, and man, it couldn't be further away from the truth, honestly, just some of the most welcoming, nicest people I've ever met in my life.
And how did you wind down that part of the trip? I remember, weren't you trying to go to Israel for a while? Also?
Uh no, the only place I was trying to go to was in Gaza, gotcha. Honestly, Like, by the time that trips I winded down, the last the last thing I wanted. I didn't want to step foot in Israel. So that now I get things like we don't know the other side. Yeah, I know the other side. I've been saying for a long time that Israel's is an apartheid state, that's been illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza, And I mean, if the ICC just came out with that ruling as well, I mean that just kind of like,
you know, that backs up everything I've been saying. I'm not saying all Israelis are bad, and I'm not even saying that all the IDF, but let me rephrase that real quick. There are some people that refuse to go into the IDF. So I know there's some good Israelis out there, and there's a lot of Israelis that are, you know, protesting against what they're doing. So it's not just a blind hatred for everybody. It's it's you know,
I get definitely against, but you've got to understand. I mean, if you see the mentality of you know, a mob that's literally attacking a detention center because you know, these idea of soldiers in charge of the you know, have been raping Palestinians to death and they're saying, well, they deserve it, and they're held as heroes. That kind of
gives you an understanding of the mentality. And this is something that just happened this last week, you know, So it's very hard to argue that you know, they're very moral or the world's moral army. When they're literally celebrating the death of a Palestinian and a detention center by raping him to death, I mean, how is that being argued with? You know, how can you argue that? Honestly? They can do you know, targeted specific bombs against you know,
kata Eskimino Kata. But the Hamas leaders and the Iranian leaders in Syria and Iran, like they just did a couple of days ago, but they're they've dropped what seventy thousand tons of ammunition on Gaza. I mean, we have right now. It's not even an accurate account, you know, because I guarantee the numbers a lot higher than forty thousand civilians fifteen thousand children, and no one's I don't
support Hamas by any means. I don't support the the killing of civilians or taking the hostages in any way. But I'm also not in their position, and I don't know, I can definitely understand, you know, after you know they've been occupied for so long, you know the amount of frustration and anger. I mean, it's seventy percent of Hamas are orphans. That's got to tell you a lot. I mean that means that they literally have nothing to lose anymore.
They've lost everything. And again, you don't have to agree, but you have to at least understand, to at least know what the situation is. And this is literally just this is a genocide. This is the definition of ethnic cleansing. I mean, I was in the West Bank and they've already taken four thousand people. You know, I say hostages, not prisoners, because what they haven't committed any crime. You know, Gaza was an open air prison. Because they're not prisoners. Prisoners.
Is is stating that they did something wrong and they weren't doing anything wrong. The hostages that they they took, you know that Hamas took again, I don't agree with that, but I don't agree with the nine thousand that is really is taken as well. And just because of their government doesn't mean that they're not a terrorist organization.
Allen, I'm a little bit curious if you had any takeaways as far as why this particular conflict, or this stage in the conflict has unfolded the way it has, as opposed to the decapitation strikes we saw over the over the weekend where you know, these real precision strikes against some really bad guys. Why we haven't seen more of that and less of you know, flattening the city.
Hey, you talking about the leader Hamas.
Yeah, the Hamas leader in Taran, and then there's an IRGC guy in Damascus.
I believe, I'm not sure about the RCG guy. The leader Hamasa was trying to negotiate peace, and it's hard to actually negotiate peace when he killed that guy.
The hostage negotiator.
Yeah, he was trying to negotiate a seasefire. And one thing that Hans Rubinstein, the former he quit about the month and a half ago, but he was the spokesperson for the hostages. People keep saying it's about the hostage, about the hostages, but yah, Yahoo was actually keeping it
from the Israelis, keeping it a secret. They could have had all the hostages back ninth tenth of October in return for not invading Gaza, but he didn't want to do that, so they could have had the hostages back, and he's been trying to actually negotiate that it's been in their court and the amount of lying that the I mean literally just saying no, this is an Israeli plan.
They're going to accept it. It's how much they were waiting on and then switching the channel and looking at the Kanessant and saying, it doesn't matter what we're not stopping, doesn't matter if we get the hostages back, we're still going to keep going and we're not accepting any deal other than that, and then John Kirby going out and spewing out the nonsense is absolutely ridiculous about the precision bombings though, how can you how can you say that
you know yours specifically going after anybody when you have that type of casualty. I mean, let's take the hostage rescue right, they were saying it was such a what was the stunning rescue? To say four hostages in two hundred and seventy six Palestinian civilians were killed. That's a catastrophic failure on every level. Yeah, you're not. The whole thing about hostage rescue is not killing civilians and the hostages.
They've already killed three hostages. They did that I think in December where they were literally speaking Hebrew kind of a shirt on, waving white flags and they got smoked. So I do want the hostages come back, before the IOF kills any more of them. And Amos was saying that, you know, and if you look at the look at the condition that all the hostages returned from the homicide, right, they're in good health, have been fed. There's a lot of them they keep from the TV because they're saying, no,
they treated me well. You know. Then one lady came on there like, oh, they treated me so bad. They didn't knock before they came in. And it may be clean versus being raped to death. And you see other people that are coming back in such a condition where they literally don't even look human anymore. They look like they I mean, there was one guy that came in. He was like limping on his way back, had lost like probably like eighty ninety pounds. Look at how they're
treating the different the other types. And again I don't support taking hostages on either side. There was an arrest one put out not just for net and Yahoo and what was his name, the general, the one of his staff, but the MOSS leaders as well, to go in front
of the court, you see what I mean. And I thought that was absolutely fair because in my opinion, there were war crimes that were committed on October seventh, and they need to be held responsible, but so does net and Yahoo and the rest of the Knesset that that was involved in actually you know, supporting everything that's been going on.
Where do you where?
What?
Where did you get the information that the hostages could have been recovered as early as October ninth or tenth.
From Hans Rubinstein and the Horetes and Times of Israel, the media, they actually posted articles on that.
It's I mean, it's because by all accounts, I don't even think Hamas knew where all the hostages were because some of them were taken by civilians, right, So so are they saying that the Hamas held hostages.
Would have returned the hostages Hamas had could have been all returned ninth and tenth if they would have not gone on to proceed to attack Gaza Strip. There's two articles that I got a lot of sourcing from was from Haretes and Times of Israel would just type up, and then Hans Rubinstein actually did a take that back.
Hans Ruverside actually did a formal piece on that as well, where he actually spoke out against what was going on, and he was the spokesperson for the families that the hostage has been taken Alan.
This is a bit of an unfair question to pose to you or any of us, But based on sort of what you saw over there, what you experienced, you know, what your takeaways are from that, Where do you see this going? I mean, this conflict has been simmering on and off since nineteen forty eight at least, and this is maybe as bad as it's ever been.
The one thing that I keep hearing is that there was a truce beforehand. But if you actually look and like what happened I think was September twenty third, there was like an eleven day year strike mission, you know
against Gaza. There was three hundred or excuse me, two hundred and forty seven than Palestinians killed in twenty between January first, twenty twenty three, in October first, twenty twenty three, two hundred and thirty seven a year before that, three hundred and fifty one a year before that, and twenty twenty one. You're absolutely right, you know. One of the biggest fallacies that I keep hearing is if Hamas put their bold things, if Palestinians put their arms down, which
they're not armed, there will be peace. If the Israelis put their arms down, there would be a genocide and a massacre. If the Israelies would stop with the illttle sediments, which they actually just approved five more illegal sediments about three weeks ago. They also Israelis also voted overwhelmingly that there will never be a two state solution. There will never be a one state solution, that the Palestinians will never receive any type of validation that they actually have
their own their own statehood. So everything that the US is saying that they're trying to achieve, like a two state solution, well you have to have these Reelis to agree on that as well. So if they're saying that they will never have that, I mean, then the US is literally just bullshitting everybody saying, yeah, we'll work on a two state solution. Will it feels be a two sided down The first thing that needs to stop is legal settlements, I mean, the settler violence that's going on.
It's been the worst ever ever, especially in the West Bank. While I was there, there was two thousand, two thousand excuse me, there's two dozen Palestinians that were killed in the outskirts of Hebron where I was at. I even posted on on my page on Instagram. You know there was unless it got taken down literally showing like the you know, the settlers coming in and really beat Palaesians.
And this is something that's spent ongoing for very long time, even in Hamas Charta in twenty seven, the twenty seventeen of Miles Charter and articles. It's not the annihilation of Jews. You know, they don't want to kill the Jews. That's not the case at all. It literally specifies and articulates it in a very good way that they only want to stop and the the Zionist movement from taking more land invicting more Palestinians so they can get taken over.
I mean. Another thing that was happening while I was there was so all the aquifers and the water actually comes from the West Bank. There's no water shortage, but while I was there, they cut the water from a sixty five percent for no reason. And that you can always tell the Palestinians homes from the settlers homes because there's water tanks on all of the Palestinian homes because they have to pay for them, so they have to pay for their water, and the settlers use five times
more water. But yet they'll cut it off and then turn them back on, cut it off, turn it back on because they're in control of that. If you wanted to buy a car like a Kia Sorento, right, you paid like ten grand for it, it's a twenty thousand dollars car there because you have to pay an import tax one hundred percent. This the ship needs to stop now.
If my thing is is like, for example, we don't have any more slave rebellions, right, we don't have you know, uprisings and slaves that that go and kill people like the Turner rebellion that was horrible event, because we don't have any more slavery. So right, the entire world is
seeing this. The entire world agrees the ICC, the highest court in the world world is saying that it isn't a part state that's been illegal occupying Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza since nineteen sixty seven, but the horrendous actions have been continuing since nineteen forty eight. This I agree with the icy C on this fullheartedly. It's a long read, but it's well worth it. Don't get me wrong, I how to use s dictionarund a lot
of it. This is about two thousand pages, but if you read like the the summary of it, it actually outlines like exactly like what needs to stop, because what is illegal needs to stop, the illegal settlements and the settler of violence the community when every time they try to go to ABRAHAMI Mosque. You know the history on remember the Abraham Moss massacre in February twenty fifth, nineteen
ninety four. I don't, it's when. So there was a Israeli Zionist Jewish Zionist, Bruke Goldstein, that went into the Abrahamian Mosque during Ramadan and as the Muslims were praying, loaded his weapon and killed twenty nine and injured seventy I think No. No. One hundred and fifteen, injured one hundred and fifty and killed twenty nine. They all eventually outnumbered him and beat him to death, but he's hailed as a hero. Well, that was horrible in itself, but
what happened after was even worse. The entire area and this is like a heavy market that's right there by. ABRAHAMI Mosque was shut down for six months and the checkpoints were enlarged. They had more checkpoints out there, and fifty four of the mosque was taken over by these relies. The rest of the mosque had a bunch of cameras and stall all over it. So that's the justice that
they received. They had this horrendous event that happened to the Muslims, to the Palestinians, and their justice was we'll take half of your church and had more checkpoints. I mean, these are the things that need to end. If you want to stop the resistance, you have to eliminate what the people are resisting.
When you say resistance, I mean you're.
So.
So the West Bank and Gaza are two completely separate entities, right and Hamas was the elected government of Gaza, but is not is not quite so present in the West Bank.
Is that correct? They're not in control at all authority.
We're because the from my understanding, you correct me if I'm wrong, But Israeli occupy or Israeli troops inside Gaza stopped like was it twenty fourteen, twenty seventeen, like there was two thousand and six. Thank you very much, yes, so, And you know, we can talk about Gaza being an open air prison. But Egypt is also like on the side of like not allowing Gosin's free passage through through Egypt either. So there's so it's not just an Israeli issue,
Like there are issues with the settlements, no doubt. And you know, and I think that prior to October seventh there was a lot of pushback and maybe even now I don't know, but I think there was a lot of pushback.
In Israel, like a lot of.
Less conservative I don't mean like American politic politics conservative, but a lot of like the kids at the Nova Festival probably most of them would have.
Been against settlements in you know, the settlements in the West Main.
But I just.
I just when you say resistance, I feel like there's two separate issues.
Here are two separate things going on.
There is the West Bank and the settlements, and then there's a terrorist organization called Hamas which conducted horrific a horrific terrorist attack.
Is that is that?
I mean, you can tell me if I'm wrong.
I think it's more of a perception. Nelson Mandela was actually considered a terrorist ah way, but to the two thousand and eight for standing up to the apartheid in South Africa. In two thousand and six, the Israeli has actually removed all their settlements from Gaza and but replaced it with the wall and automas weapons pointing inward. They control the water, air landed, all the land, sea and air. Every thing that goes in and out. They control and
subsidized food. There's like the red line directive which is allowing only so much food going in there that won't allow light bulbs in for like chicken coops see that, I mean Cilantro and to Gaza Gaza.
So how then, because I'm not really familiar with a lot of that, like how were there resorts and car dealerships and malls and things like that in Gaza?
And everything has to go through Israel to get inside is what I'm saying. And everything. There's a lot of things that are actually like they're not allowed in like for example, fishing poles, different type like potato, chips, chocolates, I mean, different things like that are actually banned from that. The the amount of things like for example, you can't even go out so far to fish before they'll actually like shoot you up, you know, if you try to
go fish outside. The taxation on there is is crippling any because Israel does have control of everything that goes in and out of Gosa. Another thing that that ads, you know, makes the story even more complicated. But let me one point though. First, Egypt has already I think a quarter million refugees from Palestinian refugees. Jordan has two million, Lebanon has I believe two hundred and seventy five, Syria has a fifty seven thousand. It's just there's there's two
things that are going on there. One, they know if they leave then they'll be able to come back, and so a lot of people are just trying to stay there because they want to go back home. The second thing is there's i mean just kind of like the immigration problem. You know, in any country, you have an influx of people and they're going to be stuck there. So the taxation on everything is is one of the biggest problems to have because they're reliant on, you know,
to getting this really passed. That they have to go through these cattle like gated gates, you know, in order to get like a work permit and to be worked, to be able to work in Israel. And so there's a lot of different parts of this that you know that that's why their economy is like is crumbling on there.
They have entire blockades. Another part that makes this even more complicated about Hamas itself is there is I mean Ntyahu himself has said, you know, in front of the Likud party in twenty I think it was twenty eighteen, and it can actually looked us up on Jerusalem Post. I think it's from twenty nineteen. How Ya who's project is going to backfire in his face because he's been funding him since like nineteen eighty eight in order to
prevent a two state solution. Because as long as Hamas is control in the Gaza, excuse me, as long as the Palestinian authorities and control in the West Bank and the Hamas is in control in Gaza, there will never be a two state solution. You have to have a unified government.
Now.
I remember actually seeing ron Paul Tak you know, in any congressional hearing, you know, talking about this in two thousand and nine, how Nana who was funding Hamas and this is back in two thousand and nine, so it's nothing to where it's you know, it's new information. Because again, as long as as Hamas is up and going. Then it'll never be a two state solution because it'll never be able to agree on things.
It is kind of surreal to think about, and I mean I wouldn't even entertain it if it wasn't so reported. But I mean it's almost like imagine if George W. Bush was funding al Qaeda and then nine to eleven happened, Like I.
There's an argument to be made there, like like or that we or that we funded ISIS or the beginnings of ISIS in order to overthrow Syria, like.
Like what would you say about that?
I mean, it's I think that the idea that not in.
Yahoo supported Hamas in order to offset the PLO is both horrific and probably very realistic.
You know.
I I don't feel as though Net in Yahoo, you know, he has been you know, hardcore from the beginning and unfortunately where I feel as though he was falling out of favor and people were realizing what he was all about. You know, October seventh has put things firmly back in his in his court. And I I don't think I don't think that Net and ya, I don't think that October seventh was some Israeli plot. I think it was a terrorist attack created, you know, done by some very
horrific people. Like if it were just about Israel, then then we wouldn't have seen Thai people a thaie man uh being beheaded with a garden hoe, right, Like Hamas are terrorists?
What what net and Yah?
Who has or hasn't done to contribute to that? Is another issue, and it's a big issue.
I'm not saying it's not, you know, but I think that the people of Israel, you know, the kids at the Nova festival, the people in these kibbutz, is that what they're called, The in these you know towns uh did not.
Deserve what they did, no more than.
The average America deserves something because of our invasion of Iraq, right or the Palestinians at Gaza.
I you know it or the Palestinians of Gaza.
You know It's but I actually agree with you. I don't and I always saying earlier, I don't support the killing of civilians or targeting of civilians whatsoever. Don't support you know, I think it's a war crime in itself. I agree with you on that one by all means. And I also agree with you that you know, the taking the hostage of civilians is also a war crime.
But in reality, you have had two hundred and forty six civilians in Israeli civilians taken hostage and seven hundred and thirty seven civilians that were killed on October seventh, not twelve hundred, because according to international law, they actually have the right to armed resistance against an occupying nation. So yeah, there's but still there's seven thirty seven.
So if you put it in the context of war, out of the context of a terrorist attack, if you say that they have the right, I don't know.
Like I said, the killing of civilians was definitely a terrorist attack. It was a war crime, absolutely so.
But so But what I'm saying though, is that if if their attack on the military targets, and that's the thing, if Hamas were some.
Opposition for US, if they were some.
Guerrilla force and they had just struck military targets, they might have room to.
To talk about this being a counter occupation result.
But when we talked about just an organization, that doesn't second, So let's just say, ex organization that that kills civilians.
Well, accept organization that targets civilians.
Okay, perfect, even better because you know I mean the United States government has killed tons of like look at Hiroshima, Nagasaki.
We can the lot of revilians, right, But in this conflict itself, would you say that if they target civilians or a terrorist organization, then.
Well that depends are they a legitimate like are they commit Does it matter if they're a legitimate government?
I mean it does, right, it does because it because.
Targeting civilians doesn't matter.
It matters in the context of what a power, what a state does in war. We targeted civilians. Every country has targeted civilians and to death.
I mean, have have we have we like.
Have have we have we raped women from.
A It's kind of a ra kind of a gross comparison though, Like that's not what we're aspiring to as Americans. We're trying to be better than that. We're not trying to be like Hamas or a terrorist organization. So I don't think that what about ism of like it's okay because we did it.
Is I'm not saying it's okay because we did. What I'm saying is that what is the what is the context that people are claiming? Are they claiming that it is a sovereign government that Hamas was an elected government that attacked another government, that attacked another country.
Or which is a war crime, and that's I don't disagree with you on that, you know, you know, and I they should be brought to court, just like you know with your restaurants as war criminals.
Every one percent, if like I haven't read about the person sodomized to death one percent, all those people should be charged with I don't even even know if that's war crimes.
They should just be charged with crimes against humanity.
They should be charged just like released just and that's not correct, that's not right, just as just like everybody in Hamas and all of their leadership should be targeted absolutely, you know.
So I'm just what I'm advocating for is the same standard, you see what I mean? Now again, if it's if it was just now what I agree with you on, that doesn't mean I don't understand. Because again, if you look at the Hamas's you know they're military, you know, or militia you know, seventy percent are orphans. I mean, who am I to speak on what kind of atrocities you know I'd be willing to do at that point? You know what I mean I don't agree.
I mean, would you would you be wonder to be had a time out?
I don't know, you know, you have like, for example, like the Nate Turner you know rebellion where they actually killed children and women and men in a nearby town. I mean, I never was a slave, so I would never understand the horrific amount of brutality had been inflicted upon them their entire life, you know, enslaved and being sold as property and then beaten and into their life
and uses cattle, you know. I mean I have no understanding of that, do I do I justify and condona absolutely not no. And That's what I'm saying is that there is going to hold a standard. Please but but but you're just clarify.
You're arguing this from the point that.
Gaza was an open air prison and the people that have no freedom, and therefore it is equivalent to the Nate Turner rebellions, that that even though there wasn't slavery, there was there was outright oppression of.
A sort of there was suppression, yes, okay, and and there was an illegal occupation. And I don't like using the term. I mean, I don't like using the term open up prison, because that was actually signified they did something wrong. I think it was more or less a concentration camp because it wasn't they weren't just left alone. There were also there was you know, their term was mowing the grass, you know, so they would actually everything once in a while to let them know that they're
in control. They would do some air strikes in there and just bombing the hell out of it. And then if you look at the look at it like I mean the French resistance itself. You know, we had the occupation and the German occupation in France, and you had the French resistance that was fighting back again. I don't agree condone whatsoever. You know, the rape, you know, the targeting of civilians themselves, I don't agree or condone that. On both sides. It doesn't matter what entity it is.
You have one that's elected government, you have another that's elected government. And if one is condoning it and the other one is condoning it, they're both terrorist organizations in that sense. The only difference is is that if it was just the military resistance, if they actually targeted just like you were saying earlier, then they actually have the
legal right to against that. And that's why I say there's only seven hundred and thirty seven civilians that were killed that day and not twelve hundred because the other ones were police officers and IDs soldiers. Now the targeting civilians themselves, like for example, the Nova Music Festival. The location is twenty five by five right, it's twenty five miles, the Gaza strip twenty five miles by five miles. It's
one of the most secured areas in the world. Why did it take I've heard everything from six to twelve hours. Let's just take the average eight hours to respond. Why did it take that long to get people there? Where's the footage from the cameras where they have KEMP? That was one thing I also saw it like everywhere, especially like they if you go buy like any checkpoint, there are cameras stacked on top of cameras. Where's all the
footage from the breakpoints? Where's all the footage from that the whole lot?
So what do you what are you saying about where's the footage? I'm not quite sure.
Well, we'd be able to understand a lot more what was happening during that time frame to the break in and the breakout. You know where they attacked and how they got in and out, But the response time is is my biggest question, you know, and the security cameras would show all of that. Why did it take again the average if we take the lowest, let's just take the lowest. Why did it take six hours for them to respond to these really army to respond to that.
We've had people on the show that have that have like speaking with sources of ven Isuel Stept said that there was a big cluster fuck on the Israeli side. There were like contradicting orders, there were there was confusion, there was denial on some parts. But regardless of Israel's failed response, that that doesn't mean that these kids at the Nova festival were in any way, shape or form
any kind of enemy combat. To be to be shot, to be mutilated, to be kidnapped, to be raped, to be tortured, Like.
I agree, I mean that that is I agree, that is all.
The hallmarks of a terrorist attack. To use horror in order to change somebody's political opinion.
I agree, right, we agree on that. And like I said, if someone sodomizes someone to death, that's also a terrorist organization That's the only point that I'm making is like the same standard across the board. It's a mole the government.
It's definitely a moral one.
Absolutely. I mean they're both I mean crimes against humanity and war crimes. Absolutely. What I'm saying is that there needs to be a standard across the board. You know, just because Israel is doing it doesn't give them a pass just because there's really I mean, just because they have poor firepower and they have a full army. I
guarantee you one. This is the reason why I speak out about this demosa, especially as American, and try to get other people informed on this, is that Israel would not be doing what it's doing if they didn't have our support. They would not be picking fights in Syria and Lebanon against his ballot. They would be looking for a diplomatic way out. But the thing is is that we support them, and we're funding them with our tax dollars, and we are, you know, in some way complicit with this.
You know, we are our tax money it's going to that and of course you know, we don't have a choice of that.
But what do you see as a diplomatic way out for Israel?
Remove all the settlements, the illegal settlements. They know they're illegal. Give the Two States solutions brought us back into ninety sixty seven, Allow the families that have been exiled to return. This isn't like it's basically just undoing the things that they're doing illegally. I honestly, it's a lot more articulated and better well put than I could probably you know, you know, vocalizes is the way the ic C foot and everything that they're doing illegal can stop.
So was you guys are better at history than it was in nineteen sixty seven? Was that was that the Six Day War?
Yes?
So, so should they return Palestine or Gaza? Because Gaza going to Egypt.
At that time? Correct or? I don't think it was under the jan Jordan.
So should they return Gaza to Jordan and make it part of Jordan again?
The difference between under Jordan rule is that they weren't establishing settlements. They weren't kicking people and exiling people and conducting at the cleansing and so you have to have an ethnic majority in order to have a Jewish sovereignty.
Jordan wasn't doing that. Jordan must you know, I'm not saying it by only means I'm not saying the monarchy there is a good thing, but I'm also saying that they weren't doing these illegal things and conducting violence on a daily basis like they're doing in the West Bank and currently in Gaza. This makes sense, sure, and the same thing in Lebanon, you know, they picking fights with Hebela Hesbola wouldn't exist, you know, if they didn't keep
trying to push into let On. I think one of the things that also, like the history of Israel has to be kept in consideration, especially during nineteen forty eight, during the Nakba, when seven hundred and fifty thousand people and they were like, oh, we give them five separate peace deals, you know, and they were they rejected them all. Like well, let's take something, for example, like Mexico saying we're going to take Texas back it used to belong
to us. I guarantee you that there's some people that still have like, hey, I remember this land being ours, you know, generations ago, and they kicked out everybody, and then anyone that stayed, they would lose their home. They would have to get, you know, somewhere else. They would Actually that's something to be argued, right, well, they're doing the same thing, but they were the ethnic minority at
the time. There's always been Jews there. They've lived in relative harmony with the Muslims and Christians, you know, for centuries. And the Muslims aren't saying they want to eliminate them. They want to eliminate the signs. They don't want to eliminate the Jews. They can live in harmony and peace with the Jews. They did under the Oltmann Empire for
centuries as well. It's just they don't want to be wiped off or you know, risk losing their business or their home, you know, because they might decide this is the time to do, you know, to eliminate them from this area and we're going to put the settlements in this area, you know. I mean. The first terrorist attack actually happened in July twenty second, nineteen forty six, where the King David Hotel was bombed, and that was by Zionist Jewish scientist part of the Stern Gang, and literally
they were dressed up as Arabs. They went into the King David Hotel, blew up the south wing and killed like ninety six people injuring or ninety people and Injuring forty six. Then like you heard of I did a little peace on this, you heard of Oscar Schindler, Schindler's List, the movie The German Industrially is phenomenal man. He saved like twelve hundred people FM the Holocaust, and you hear them used in the Holocaust constantly like oh never again.
You know, the Holocaust happened to our people. Zienus is a different thing. We're not people try to conflate, you know, anti semit or is can be anti Zionism with anti Semitism, which is not the case at all. Zionism is a political arityeology that was started by Theodore Hertzel in the late nineteenth century, and it literally has nothing to do with the Zionist movement that was there. Is like a
colonial project. Fulke At Bernadotte was a Swedish soldier and diplomat that negotiated with with Himmler, and it was such a good negotiator. He was able to get save thirty thousand people from concentration camps in Poland and Germany. He was a phenomenal human being and a third of those
were Jews. In nineteen forty eight, he got positioned as a UN as a mediator to trying to bring some type of peace, you know between you know, what was going on between the air blines that was there because there was a lot of violence.
You know.
But if you imagine like all these people coming in saying we're going to take your land, I mean, what would you expect to happen? I mean again, it was there like oh, this East belong to us, We're taking it back. It's like Mexico coming into Texas saying we're taking this back. So he was assigned there and he was actually assassinated by the Stern Gang, and the leader of the Stern Gang was actually yet Suk Shamir. He
ended up being Prime minister. Those three organizations, the Laife, the Hargana and the Urgun terrorist groups got absorbed all into the IDF. So literally those three terrorist groups are the foundation for the IDF. These are the things that you mean kind of keeping perspective on that.
I mean, I think a counterpoint that could be, please, uh, that you have a culture who had just been through a legitimate genocide, like a legitimate attempted genocide, and that we're very and let's and let's be honest, name one Middle Eastern country where the Jewish community has thrived, even though at one point in time the diaspora was threat
was spread throughout the entire Middle East? Like, where what country can you point to right now where the Jewish community has thrived in the Middle East?
Thrived in which manner economically or grown not? There is actually a pretty large Jewish community in Tehran.
In Tehran, and you know, and and so, and I mean, let's.
Think about five thousand, Yeah, about seven of dogs, five thousand, five thousand Jews.
Yeah, I mean five.
Thousand is that?
Yes, I would I would argue that five thousand is not necessarily thriving as a community.
That's what I was trying to see, Like, what what do you mean by thriving? Though what I'm saying talking about are you talking about You're talking about in Europe? But yeah, the genocide didn't happen in the Middle East, correct, what right?
But but Jews were very.
Wide Palestinians paying the price for it. Though, Jews were very populous in the Middle East. So so they've always been there, but they've been the minority.
Okay, fair enough, But the communities in those areas have not grown. The communities in the Middle East have not grown.
So so all I'm saying is that you have this group and again I am not justifying what the Stern Gang or any of the other organizations did, but you have this post World War II group of people who had seen the legitimate, like attempted decimation of their society and they're they're given this small area that they have historically been have that they historically have roots to and have been part of since I mean the Old Testament, however old at least the Old Testament, however old that
is right, and they are fighting for what they believe is an existential ah, you know, an existential dilemma, a place to exist.
So and they and again I think we actually had the same agreement that they've been there for millennium. Sure we agree on that, sure means, but they weren't the majority on that. And that is where the separation of our I think we're we kind of disagree is if why didn't Germany give up half of Germany to the Jews? Germany was the one that was responsible for the Holocaust. We agree on that, right, Sure not the Palestinians. Sure Palestinians had nothing to do with that. They welcomed him
after nineteen forty eight. There, excuse me, let me refrase that one real quick, after nineteen forty five. Excuse me. Sure. And that's the whole thing is that, you know, there's an argument to be made that Mexicans have been there for millennia since the Aztecs. Right, they've been there for millennia,
so why can't they go back? So that's just not something that's done and sort of use like a biblical reference I think is now sorry, but it's kind of a ridiculous type point because they're like, yeah, they're in the minority. And if you look at the people are saying there's only like a I think they said like
two hundred thousand Palestinians living in Palestine during nineteen forty eight. Yeah, you're right, because but if you look at the numbers from nineteen forty seven to nineteen forty six, there was like one point three million.
But we're talking about Palestinians right as a country as a people where.
Or Palestine doesn't exist for a long time.
And we're talking about Jews, a religious both an ethnic and a religious group, right that so between Judaism the Jews are religion and a people that we're calling Palestinians who are Muslim, which didn't start until six hundred years after Christianity.
Like, what is what is the blend? What's the mix there?
Right?
What are these people that we call Palestinians in this place we call Palestine which has not existed for a very long period of time, right, it.
Was years Palestine.
Yes, they've had their own currency, they've had their own former government. But the thing is is that people are like, well they were in a state. Well, there's a lot of countries that weren't a state until you know, England started carving up and France started coming up and saying, Okay, these lines are going to be Iraq, these lines are going to be Lebanon. I mean, I mean, if you think about it, the Phoenicians were there before Lebanon, was you know what I mean?
So when correct me if I'm wrong, was Palestine or at least guys that was was that or part of the Ottoman Empire prior to British colonialism.
So the amount Empire, so that was after World War two, excuse me, excuse me, after World War One? So that was one of the things between so the Arab the the Arab tribes that were in the area. The U because psychs agreement, was then making a deal with the Arab tribes there that if they could help us defeat Allman Empire, they would be able to get their own date. And they got screwed out of that deal because they
actually helped them defeat All My Empire. I mean the empire fell in like October twenty seventh, nineteen seventeen, and then Armistice Day was November eleventh, nineteen seventeen. So that was the key and pivotal moment in World War One enemy because they were losing, you know, tragically up in France and for trench warfare in France and Germany, they were getting their asses kicked. And then after they won, well they're like, well, hey, we're just going to take
you over now. And that's when the British Mandate came over and they actually started occupying them in that area, and so they were like, well, what the hell are you guys doing, you know, I mean, we helped you win this, and then they renicked on the deal and they just you know, the British Mandate do we.
Have for Allen. Oh, it's gonna say, sorry, Alan, there's the viewers. I'm going to see if they have any questions for you. I know we've talking for a while. I appreciate you know, providing your perspective and your experiences that you had over there, but if you want to finish your thought, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt.
No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. So I mean that's one of the things that has to kind of keep in mind is that you know, you're absolutely right, it wasn't like an official Palestinian state, but it's to say it doesn't mean that the Palestinian people haven't lived there, you know what I mean, Like I said, Lebanese Lebanon was created after you know, the French colonization, and the the lines that were drawn were drawn by Western empires, you know, by predominantly the unit the UK United Kingdom.
So that's the thing is to be made is that you know they did have they didn't have presidents. They had must the must must feet, most must mufties. Yes, sorry, that mufties. One of the arguments that I heard before is that that the muftes were like the Grand Mufti was the one that met with aldof Hitler to suggest the final solution, and I think that was in nineteen nineteen forty two. I believe the problem with that argument
is that they already started building. He met with him in November nineteen forty two, and they already started building the the concentration camps in the death ovens in Poland in June. But if you look up the Havara Agreement of nineteen thirty three between Theodore Hertzel and Ottolf Hitler's actually assigned contract between the two, he actually allowed designers to actually leave and start the colonization of Palestine between nineteen thirty three and nineteen thirty nine. I think it
was like sixty zero. And there's actually a coin to commemorate that as the Star of David on one side and the swastika on the other, transiting history.
Yeah, well thanks, like again, like I don't know a ton about the region, especially since you've been there to visit personally.
You know, I appreciate like your inside and your input.
On all that.
Real quick, some questions, Joe's gotcha, thank you very much.
What happened exactly with the sith slash crf are they no longer a thing or did the concept evolve into something else.
So, no, they don't exist anymore. They actually they got disbanded I think in twenty nineteen, I think is when they actually got disbanded. The exact reason.
Sure, to be honest with you, yeah I can, I can actually help out a little bit, Alan So I wrote actually about this is what happened was that for the first time, the Special Forces Commander, the use of SOAC commander, and the SOCOM commander, none of them were SIFF guys, and that was their opportunity to do away with the SIF. And so they put a memo forward to Christopher Miller and I can't remember if I don't think he was sec deaf at the time. I think he was at ASD Solik, and uh, he signed off
on it because this is what the commanders wanted. And so at that point the the SIF lost the Jasock mission and that that doesn't exist anymore. And today they became what's called the c TAC, the Critical Threat Advisory Companies, and they still have a direct action mission, a counter w m D mission. They still have an important mission. But no, they're not the SIF anymore.
Thank I just learned something new. I've been hearing different rumors here and there about it, so I'm got to breach some clarity. Appreciate that. Yeah, and who who asked that question? Uh?
That was let me h, that was.
Joe's gotcha.
Thank you very much, Thanks Chos Joackon. I appreciate that I learned something today.
Ryan Parsons, thank you very much. Alan is awesome and the We Defy Foundation is great.
Yes.
Please Uh it's WEDIFI dot org.
We Defy Foundation dot org.
We Defy Foundation. And that's for those who are listening. It's w E Defy d e f Y Foundation dot org. Please check them out. M Corbyn, thank you much. Have you encountered the term uh athrogenesis in fitness? It refers to our arterial smooth muscle growth and do you have any thoughts on on training methods related to it?
Wow, that's actually the first time I've heard that. To be honest with you, the honestly that the same turning methods I use right now is like the off season Olympic lifting programming that I used to do. Because you can't maintain an Olympic lifting regiment for a whole year round you can only do it like a couple months
ahead of time before competition because it's very specialized. But the general general programming for Olympic lifting on the off season is actually what I still use, and so that's pretty much what I've been sticking to, and a little bit of adding a little bit more volume, a little more volume to it for the endurance side.
Actually Cormyn it was he re corrected it arterio genos genesis. So I guess like the creation of new arteries or at least like the branch of new vessels.
Now I'll have to look into that. It sounds interesting, uh fe.
Mafeitis, thank you very much, thanks for the show.
Love you guys.
Though I'm Malding in chat. What is maldingd like shutting like? Okay, ask your guest to check out his historical timelines regarding israel pull out of Gaza and Hamas.
Takeover, as well as most of his others.
Okay, that is.
Do we have any questions on Patreon?
I think we have one.
Guys, appreciate you sticking around for this conversation tonight. Please give a shout out. I'd like to give a shout out to our friends at Casa Carabo Cigars.
Uh.
Good friend of mine runs the company. He's also a Special Forces veteran. And check out our patren if you want to get access to these episodes ad free. There's a link down the description. It will also be a link to the foundation. Not Alan works with Alan?
Are there? Is there anything else you want to plug aside from we defy anything else you're involved with it.
People can get involved.
In Man Coast to Coast Foundation to be one of them great organization Special Forces Foundation. Uh, I know those two guys that the guys involved in directly really legit organizations. Uh, of course Green Gray Foundation is another good one, coming off guard on that.
That's okay, you think about it. We got one more questions.
You have a question from Patreon.
Yeah, we got one question from Sean Dudley. Do you happen to know the history of why US Special Forces units are structured the way they are? It seems like it must have been based on a very specific mission profile.
Asking there.
Basically, I mean, I guess assuming it's the team's broken up that way, Odie is broken up to twelve so they can split them in two. So you have the warrant officer that can go and split into one, and you have two Bravos to delta excise me two medics to como guys and split off that way. The difference is that I was actually never on a conventional team. I was always on the SIF where we had cells and a troops. So my history other than how it's broken down like a back in the Vietnam time frame
where they're kind of first emerged, is lacking. And I've been hitting out a lot, so I used that as my excuse. So he.
Sean Dudley, is it the first off, thanks for joining our channel, like, thanks for subscribing to the channel. And I think he says a question above for clarification troop level specialization as the size and composition teams, companies, the role of b teams, et cetera.
Well, yeah, I mean, of course, of course he's correct. I mean they're structured for specific to asks absolutely.
So the team for support and drivers and gunners, and then you have the guys on the teams that are specific into the operators. But the thing is is that the guys on the team, like I was a Bravo, but at the same time I was also doing TQ and I was leading now, so I mean people break up, you know, have specific jobs, but also cross train into everything. I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions is that
Hollywood gives offs. If that were like every Special Forces guys is like a computer hacker and knows how to fly a plane, and can you know, there's so much
because we specialize in that. Like for example, in this, I mean we spent at least one week a month on the range in the shootouse on the flat range, when regular teams like were spending you know, maybe one week every three months on the range because they were like dive specialists or there were ruck teams or halo teams, so they had, you know, a lot more of the things to do than just shoot because you know, their
mission was different. So it's nothing you know, better or worse, it's just what they specialized in.
I just happened to see a comment that I feel like might be somebody, you know, just because it was ground and pound ninety ground and pound ninety seven, ask him if seals are better than sith.
Like I feel like that somebody, man, you don't have to answer that, you.
Know what, I'll ask Jocko want to see him next week.
There you go, Alan, I mean, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and in your perspectives with us and everything going on to wrap up, do you want to tell us what's what's next for Alan Schabarro. You've had an interesting journey so far.
Man. Honestly, like for myself, I am life is short. I want to live it to the fullest. So I am actually going to be leaving. I'm doing a five week road trip. I'm going to be teaching at the Origin Camp and Maine in a couple of weeks. And so I'm doing a road trip with a good friend of mine all the way up to Maine and back and stopping along the way so we defy affiliates and kind of teaching clinics and kind of meet the veterans
that are involved. It has grown tremendously since since they started it in twenty fifteen along with Joey Bozick, and I want to meet the people that are involved. And we have so many people that I have no idea who else is involved in it. I mean we have thousands of people. Give me a chance to meet and thank a lot of the owners and the affiliates that are a part of this, and the mentors and ambassadors, and we have so many of them, and I would love to get to meet them all, but unfortunately, and
we're stuck with the East Coast. When I get back, I'm literally I sold everything that I own except for my defender, and I'm just going to travel. I'm going to start Southeast Asia. Have no plan, I have no schedule. I might stay three or six months in Cambodia, then move on to Laos and Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia. I've never been to Africa, so I'm going to head over there. But I actually want to experience, you know, the place and actually get a good feel for it.
So I'm not going to spend like a week or two. I'm going to spend, you know, at least a couple of months in each place.
And yeah, dude, send us a post card.
Well, I was going to say, I really hope you start a travel blog, like we will definitely pump you like, you know, that would be something fascinating to see you well.
And he was saying he's going to take his gee and do some ju role while he's traveling around that that's that would be an interesting entry way into that topic.
I think that's the best way of kind of getting to know the locals and to know like because I found jiu jitsu schools. I was just doing a random search and I actually found jiu jitsu schools in Laos and in uh in Cambodia. Of all places, you know, there's like three or four. I found the Malaysia and Doodesia. There's several in the Philippines. And so that's going to be kind of like like I said, I don't have
a plan yet. Yeah, I don't have a schedule. I think that's the beauty of this whole thing is that I just want to spend as much time, you know, maybe the next four or five years just traveling around. And I'm gonna use you know, my uh my jiu jitsu as like a kind of like my diplomatic card in a sense, you know too, it's my international language. I may not speak the local language, but I can speak jiu jitsu, and so can they. And I think that's going to be what the beauty of this all
is going to be. I'm not gonna be living at the RITZ by any means, you know, but that's my whole point. There is just too experience and live life.
That's fantastic for sure.
No, Alan, please check in with us man and I'll be interested to talk to you in a couple of years and see what the next adventure brings. And for people watching, next week, we'll be back with Chuck Simpson, a seventh Special Forces Group guy. I'm sure he has lots of stories. And again, Alan, thank you for you know, I know this was kind of like a last minute thing that sort of all came together haphazardly, and I really appreciate you making the time for it.
Thank you guys. It's been a great conversation. And appreciate all the questions and actually learned some stuff as well today. So thanks guys, I really appreciate it.
I really hope you do start like a travel blog like a channel.
It would be great to see like all the different places you go and you know, like you say, like you just such a great way to integrate with whatever culture.
With Absolutely yeah, it's a really good idea.
All right, thank you everyone, and we'll see you next week.
All right, Thanks guys,