SAS Operator | Lindsay Bruce | Ep. 256

Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast. If you're not already, we would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized, and you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to

become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just five dollars a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, But this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to, and we really appreciate that. So go and check us out at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations, Cobert SB

and I The Teamhouse with your Hopes. Jack Murphy and David Bark. Welcome to episode two hundred and fifty six of The Teamhouse. I'm Jack Murphy here with Dave Park deproducing from the Shadows back There and the recesses of our studio. Our guest on tonight's show is Lindsey Bruce. We're really excited to have him on the show today. He served in one of the Scottish regiments, then in the Special Air Service, and today he's a human performance coach,

so we're really looking forward to getting into all of that real quick. I just want to tell all of our viewers about Barbel Apparel. You can find them at Barbel apparel dot com slash Teamhouse and they have a deal going on right now for ninety nine dollars. You can get any pair of jeans, chinos, or pants just ninety nine bucks each. Barbell is one of my

favorite companies. They're my favorite company for athletic wear, like stuff you wear at the gym, stuff you want to go running even in the winter. If you want a hoodies, some long pants, or you just want shorts and T shirts. They're kind of my go to as far as how well they fit and how comfortable they are to exercise, and so I hope you guys will go and check them out. They have a guarantee. Most companies

offer an ambiguous satisfaction guarantee. But Barbell actually means it. They say wear it, use it, hike it, live it, and do whatever your day demands. And if you have any issues at all, they will repair or replace it for you. So please check out our sponsor, Barbell Apparel at barbell apparel dot com slash Teamhouse. We really appreciate it. They have a lifetime guarantee, sizing exchange guarantee, and I'll never wear another pair of

jeans again. They're comfortable, they're amazing, They're stretchy, they're my stretching pants. I love them. So Lindsay, we' don't have to start with you if you could tell us a little bit about your origin story and a little bit about your upbringing in Scotland and how that led you towards military service. Sure, first of all, thanks for having me on the show. It's a pleasure to be here. So my my childhood, I guess you know, I was born in Edinburgh, Scotland, so you probably heard of

you know, the capital of Scotland. And we're having audio issues right here. Pardon so okay, can you hear me? Okay, yes, now I'm sorry, Lindsay, same question if you could, please, No problem with all. Did you hear me saying thanks for having me on the show a citizens, No, we did it, but we appreciate. Yeah, we apologize for the technical mishap. Yeah, no, no problem with all. These things happened, as you obviously noticed before we went lives. We'll

get there. So, yeah, I was born in Edinburgh, capital of Scotland, was born there. My dad was in the military, so my dad's self served twelve years in the Royal Highland Fusiliers, which was the red that myself and my older brothers ended up joining as well. So I lived in Edinburgh for the first year of my life. My dad left the military and then we moved to a town called Fort William. So Fort William is a small town population of about six thousand in the Scottish Highlands, and that's

where I spent my whole childhood. To various places and that you know, that had its twisting turns and peaks and troughs, but it predominantly brought up in Fort William. But there was a period of time where we lived really out of the sticks, you know, out in the wilderness pretty much, and that was some of the fondest childhood memories because we lived in there.

Six of us lived in a caravan. I'm not a gypsy or anything like that before you start thinking that I'm not a traveler, but with six of us lived in a caravan for about three years, so my early days, I would say my earliest memories were, you know, living in the caravan way out in the wilderness in northwest Scotland, and it was fantastic memories. And went to school sometimes, you know, it didn't really do very well at school. It was a dropout pretty much, never had any interest in

the school curriculum. I was a drifter, massive attention deficit all through school, no interest. But that obviously led me to doing something in my life,

which was obviously joining the military at the seventeen years old. So you know, that was a massive turning point for me and probably something I would say that I've got a lot to thank the Army for because it sort of give me that give me that base play, It give me that foundation to the rest of my life, which obviously still benefits is today being an ex

military guys. You know, so yeah, I'm not sure much detail you want to I'd like to ask you actually a little bit about that because around that time frame, I believe, well maybe it was a little bit after. It was more if I recall around the time of the Iraq War and it become kind of controversial that there were seventeen year olds joined the British military and being deployed, there weren't not. In Oh, in fact, you know what, I think there was actually a guy I remember right, because

I remember this from my basic training days. I remember when I did my basic training, there was a there was a poster. There was like a newspaper clip clipping in the on the on the cookhouse wall or the mess hollwies you guys call it. There was a newspaper cut there was a guy who was actually from the Royal Scots and he had been the youngest British soldier to

deploy to Iraq. Wow, but that job's my memory because I remember when it comes to think like Northern Island, for example, you couldn't deploy until you were eighteen years old. Okay, so that was one seventeen years old. Tragically, there was an incident that happened with three three young Scottish soldiers actually friends of my dad back in the early seventies, they went out into

the into the city to do some admin and get some stuff. At that point in the early sort of days of the troubles, there was control over how long you went out for where you went, but there was like a curfew, but there was still the ability to go down to the city. So there was an instant happened where three young boys got it murdered basically in cold blood by the Irish Republican Army, and that then changed the changed the rules for how young you could deploy, so it went from seventeen to I

think it was seventeen back then, and then it changed into eighteen. I'm not sure why Iraq why they were allowed to deploy at seventeen, but obviously it did happen. There was one guy who was seventeen years old, but other than that, it was eighteen. Yeah. So what was it like going through the training and then serving in your father's regiment. I mean, it's really a family affair, right, Yeah, yeah, it was.

It was a mixed There was some mixed feelings with that. It all worked out in the but there were various reasons why I actually joined the military. It was like a double sided coin really and in one hand there was there was me as a young teenager. You know, I've been in the army cadets, so I had some had some kind of flavor of the military, and I'd also grown up with it because my father was in. My two older brothers then joined, but they were like seven and nine years older than

me, respectively, so they were several years ahead of me. I was only a little boy when they left, and then when it came round to me joining, I guess there was influence from them, influenced from my dad, and it seemed like a great idea. I had to do something with my life because I dropped out of school, so I didn't have any career prospects. I didn't know what I was going to do. When I at that point in my life, I was actually looking I was working in an

engineering for doing like weld new fabricat which I actually liked. But I remember once Fredy no offense to the guys that I was with. I remember this one Friday afternoon. I was like, you know, I was sixteen seventeen, just turned seventeen, and I would get my little pay packet at the end of the end of the week. At the end of the working week, I would have like twenty pounds, which is like twenty five dollars.

I'd have twenty pounds in my pocket and I would go to the pub with the rest of the guys, and they were all growing men, and initially there was this novelty of I'm in the pub and I'm not even eighteen yet and I'm drinking alcohol, and I feel it one of the boys. I feel it one of the men, and they would buy me drink because I

couldn't really afford it buy them a drink. But then the novelty kind of wore off because I was quite into my fitness back then, so I would I was the guy who would run to work, I would run back. I was really into my fitness, and I just had this sort of epiphany that the guys who were stood in front of me were maybe fifteen years older on average. I thought, this is going to be me. This is going to be me in ten years, and is that what I really want?

Stuff in this town. I love that town and I love visiting the town, but I didn't really see any place for me staying there, so I thought I need to do something, so that's that's really when I decided

to join the military. But the whole military thing really there was part influence in part I need a job, I need to earn money, I want to go and travel, But there was also a huge part of me that thought, you know, I want to I want to kind of level up and be like my older brothers because there was such a gap between me and my brothers, and they had it a bit harder than I did, so they got you know, they got the sharp end of my dad's nature more

than I did. And I think by the time I was getting going into adolescence, my mum was like, you know, you're not You're not doing the same to him. You're not disciplining him because they used to get like room inspections and ship. You know, my dad was really hard ass on so I think I I kind of I missed. I missed that one.

I missed the worst of it. But then what would come with that was my dad was saying because that was maybe allowed to do things that my brothers went allowed to and I was getting away with off, my dad would be like, your brothers wouldn't have got away with that. You'll never You'll never be like them. You'll never you wouldn't handle the army, all this kind of shit, you know. So I guess there was part of me that was like, I want to prove you wrong, but I wanted to make

him proud at the same time. It was a weird sort of thing got me off. I wanted to make him proud, but I also wanted to prove him wrong because of what he said, even though he probably didn't mean it. He maybe said that because he knew it would get I'm as tough as my brothers. Yeah, yeah, and that was it was always a

case of leveling up. So when I when I joined that that regiment, the Scottish regiment that joined the World Highland Fusiliers, it was it was a great time, but I remember getting there and just feeling really fucking nervous because I thought my brothers had really good reputations at the time. My dad had

a really legendary reputation as a sniper and a great soldier. He was like the this really this really admired field soldier from from the reconnaissance platoon and he really made his mark in the time he was in so people remembered him. There was still there were still guys in the in the battalion at the time who remembered my dad. So anytime that I didn't level up or didn't didn't do maybe as well in someone's eyes, is this they thought that my family

had done. I was like, yeah, I'm trying to fill these shoes all the time. And so I was told that as well. On occasion I was told that you know, you'll never be You'll never be as good as your brothers. People were really direct, and I suppose that just had had two choices there. I could either kind of put my hands up and say, you know what, Okay, you're right, I'm not as good as my brothers, or I was going to take the other option of fuck

this. You know, I'm going to do something that I'm going to make my own mark and carve my own path and do something that no one's ever done. And that's that's what I did. Lindsay, can you tell us a little bit how you know? Because Scotland is its own country, but it has basically two cards. Yeah, well it has it has a Scottishment, right and in a UK government is that correct? Well? The United

Kingdom is split into Scotland, Thingland, irelond Wales. Right, So this so Scotland has its own government system and then the rest of the rest of the country pretty much, well I Ireland as well obviously, but then the rest of the UK, so they're all with their own I mean even Wales is its own system, but Scotland has its own, you know, its

own national government as well, so they do things very differently. They work together, but at the same time they're separately, right, So how does it work for the military in terms of like when you go to basic is it is it a British basic, is it a Scottish basic? What? How do they for you? Yeah? Yeah, so that's changed over the years as well, So I mean it changed shortly after I joined actually, and they did more of a combined thing. It just got a lot bigger.

I'm not entirely sure how do they do it now, But back when I was, when I was a all the Scottish regiments would do their own training, but we also had English regiments in the same basic training depot, so we were in it together, but it would and it would sometimes mix as well, so sometimes you would get the mix. But it was essentially all the all the same curriculums. So the basic training for the British Army is all the same. It's not like the Scottish regiments have a different set

of tactics or right procedures. It's all exactly the same. So the British Army is is one blanket of you know, curriculum and soops, really it's interesting. And then is there is there like do you have are there English members in like the Few Soliers or are they just I know it's a Scottish unit. But can somebody from Ireland or somebody from England join the Few Siliers? They can, yeah, but it's not common. But it goes by

area. So it goes like this. If you walk into a career's office, the recruitment officer was going to try and get you to join the regiment that they want want people to join. So you know, Glasgow was the recruitment office that was predominantly for the Royalhigland Fusiliers. But I went to a place called them from Inverness. Inverness was north of Fort Williams, so it wasn't Royal Highland Fusilier territory. And it all goes it's a geographical thing.

So if you live in Glasgow, you go to a Glasgow regiment. If you're in maybe in the outskirts of Glasgow, you might go to the Argylands other Islanders, or you might go to the King's own Scottish board. So there's back back then. It's all changed now that the manning's all changed and it's all called it's like the Royal Regiment of Scotland, and it's like one Scott's, two Scotts, three Scotts, and so on and so forth. But back when I was so I can only speak from when I was a

recruit, there was six Scottish regiments. Two had recently been amalgamator, so there was seven. Then there was six, and depending on where you lived would depend on what dictates you to say which one you joined. However, when I joined, I was like marched up to the careers office in in Burness, my two brothers saying, here's our little brother. He wants to

join the Royal hand for his leaders. And there was no question. You do the entrance test and everyone else gets this choice of well, this is that you could actually join the engineers or you could join this corps, the med Corps or whatever. I didn't get that choice. It was just it doesn't matter how good you do in the test, You're going to the Royal

Healthy right. That was it. You know. I was kind of like told you're going there, and I wanted to go there anyway because I wanted to be like them, you know, I just wanted to follow the footsteps and you know, follow the follow the family tradision. I thought that'd be pretty cool. And you said that now the Royal Highland Fusel Layers or the they're the two Scots. It's called the Two Scots now. So there they are now two Scotts. Yeah, okay, is that because you guys stop

using fusels? And so they had to rename it something. There's the way about my pay grade where they chose to change that name. And so how was it as a young man getting on in this unit where you're you have a family mutation that's you know, sounds like it was hanging over your head a little bit, but at the same time, it sounds like you're pretty

enthusiastic. It was quite it was quite daunting. Really, it was quite intimidating because you just feel like you're constantly being watched and judged and you know, compared us essentially. And my two brothers were very different between themselves as well, you know, they took different paths. One of my brothers played

the bagpipes. He was always also so he was in the in the military band types and drums, and he was also like a machine that was also like the machine gun botooon, so he was like specialized in machine guns, like heavy heavy machine guns. And my other brother stayed in mainstream like I did, and you know, so we had similar paths, but he just decided to obviously stay in in that regiment. He that they both served a full time. I only did half my service, did it. They both

did full time. But that was when my career took a different path obviously, when I left that regiment, came down to Hereford and joined the SAS. So I made my own way. I made I think I got to the point where I started thinking for myself. That was the difference really because it was kind of like monkey, see monkey, do I want to just

be like them? I want to be like the dad. And at some point that just turned into right, I need to start making my own decisions for what I want and not what I think other people want me to do, and I always wanted to go. I've always been a bit I've just always been one of those people who if I get into something, I need to know everything about it. If I get into something, I need to do you know one more. It's like I need to go the full way.

I need to do everything with everything in my life. I've always been put an extreme kind of must do everything kind of guy. I don't know why. So the Royal Highland FEU schlayers there. It's basically a battalion sized infantry or yeah right, yeah, And then because you mentioned that your dad was a sniper, how was it split up? And then what did you stay on the line the whole time? And what was the training like for the different elements. So when you join the infantry, everyone in the British

Army does the same. It's called phase one in phase two. Again, I'm not sure how it works these days. I'm pretty sure it's not changed that much. But when I joined, it was like ten weeks you do ten weeks basic and that's a standard British Army basic training that every single person does. And then after the Phase one training you go to Phase two,

which is in another eleven weeks. I think that was, so it's twenty one weeks all in, and that's when you do the Combat Infantry School part of your basic training where it's infantry specific where you learn different weapons systems and you don't learn to be a sniper or anything, but you learn you know, anti tank weapons and stuff like that. So yeah, I guess it's just it's split into two. But one part is just like training to be an infantry man. Then you go to a battalion, you know, and

then the battalion had a machine gun section, rocky section. Yeah. Yeah, so there's like the way they do it's like rifle companies or like the main sort of infantry companies, the mainstream companies. Then you have the support companies support company which has got like your your machine gun platoon, your milan platoon, anti tank platoon, in mortars, and then you got the reconnaissance

platoon. So you know, the the reconnaisance platoon was always kind of like the bit that everyone wanted to if you're really keen and you wanted to be a soldier. It was like the wrecky was like the place to go. I didn't go to the Wreki. But I mean that was kind of yah. I still had a little bit mistike about it. And you know that that's again I guess when when I joined, we were armored, we were mechanized infantry, so we were warriors, you know, a PC's but so

so it kind of lost. I would say, the Wreki then didn't have the same kind of mystique as it once did, maybe when it was all on foot when it before it was mechanized. But we we would do like when we were in Germany, we did, like I think it was five or seven years the regiment was in Germany, and that's when we had the mechanize the responsibility. So then you would go back to another role. You might go amobile or something like that, as a as an infantry unit.

So it's like relearning a new trade. They used to move around all the time. Now they stay in the one place. So my old regiment is permanently in one place now, whereas it used to go all over the all over the place, Cyprus, Germany, Scotland, whatever. Oh and it for like deployments or would be stationed there for a period. No, no, it was stage station. You change station completely maybe five years sometime seven, and that's changed now. I think it's a good thing that it's changed

because it gives people stability. Yeah, that was always a bit of a bit of a bally, especially for people who are married or whatever. And obviously kids haven't a changed school and all that sort of stuff as well. So talk to us a little bit about this sort of like fork in the path where you decided you wanted something different for yourself and how how did that thought, how did that idea kind of germinate in your mind and come to

fruition when I was a boy. I mean, although it wasn't necessarily someone who was always going to go to the military. It wasn't like from a really young age, I was like, all they want to do is be a soldier. I had different ideas. I didn't really know. I mean I I had loads of ideas when I was a kid. You know, I wanted to be I wanted to be a professional snooker player. That was

my main thing. So a doy snooker in the US. You probably know what it is, but it's just a bigger table and smaller balls too, right, I think I don't know. Yeah, the American pool balls are a little bit bigger, yeah, heavier, so so that I played that a lot as a as a kid, and I was really good at it, and all I wanted to do was become a professional because it was it was something that was I wasn't really much of a team sports guy when I

was a kid. I was always laught to be picked for the football team, like or the soccer team. I was always like the guy who was like the sub I was shit at football. My son's really good, but I was crap. And so I liked individual sports. I always liked to go running, to go to the gym, to you know, play snooker, to do you have anything that was that was isolated, that it was an individual thing because it was very competitive at the same time, and I

only wanted to rely on myself. So there were various things I wanted to do as a kid. Snooker player was one. There was a there's a short time that I was deluded enough to think I could be a footballer, but I wasn't good enough at any point, so that was a very short lived dream. But I suppose it's like anything kids in general, they want to be an astronaut, they want to be a pop star, they want

to be an actor. And then as you get older, that belief system kind of like channels into a more realistic and you're like, oh, I just need a job, you know, I just need to do something. I'll join the army because I get paid, and I get accommodation, I get fed. It'll be a good laugh, you know. So although I wasn't ever one of those guys who was always going to join the military, there was still enough interest there, and it was things like there was movies

I would watch like The Wild Geese. Have you never seen That's where he goes there? Clint Eastwood and all that, And then the main one was it was a film called Who There's Wins with Lewis Lewis Collins, were you know, a bunch of a bunch of these extremists take over the American embassy and then sees to this rescue mission and it's all it's all quite cheesy, but it's he can't not know one that I know doesn't like that film.

It's just it is a benchmark, right. So I guess as a kid, I watched that and I just I was blown away by like, how fucking cool this was? And I was like, these guys and this is just amazing. I was always fascinated with that movie. And then that same Christmas that I saw the movie, I got the Action Man figure with the eagle eyes, you know, and he was the guy who was dressed with the black all the black gear with the respirator and he looked like it was

like the Sees guy. There's a Stormtrooper version of this. It's a very collectible piece now with Palleat. So I remember being kind of obsessed with that whole thing with it when you know, the Ranian Embassy was live on British TV when they stormed the building to do the rescue mission, and that was like when that kind of put the regiment on the map publicly, because no one really knew hy much about them at that point, so that was like

here they are. And so when I joined the Army, I guess, being the way I am, I didn't just want to join the army. I thought, what's the best part of the army, what's the Sas. Also, my older brother was very keen to join the sas as well, so he used to speak about it a lot and by the time I joined the Army, I remember like like the first week in basic training, it was myself and my friend or you're sat next to each other, and the

platoon commander said, you know, these are all the different regiments. He's clicking through all these different different factions of the army, you know, across the board. And then the last one he got to was the was the Special Air Service. He said, is any one to know what this is? And really it's the s ES And would anyone ever I think they'd want to join this? And me and my mate put our hands up. There was only two of us out of about maybe thirty forty people, and we

put our hands up. And then I joined about five years later. And I always had the seed. The seed was always planted because there was always this. I always felt like I was physically fit, you know. I was always really confident with regards to my physical capabilities. So when I joined basic training, I had been someone who I was going to the gym.

I was the fucking weirdo who we'd go to the leisure center like the swround pool was and stuff, and there was a gym there, and all my friends would go to the go and jump in the pool and I'd be like, guys, I'm going to the gym, see you and see you in an hour. And I'd go to the gym and with my homemade fucking stringer vest on and flex my muscles. No one else was in the gym,

so I was really fit and I'd run everywhere. So when it come to join the army, I was like in beating everybody everything, pull ups, push ups, running. I was just like one of the fittest guys in my intake. So I had a lot of confidence. So when I went when it came to going on courses learning new skills, I always had that that part pushed aside. I used to think, okay, I've got that covered. I know I'm fit, so I don't need to worry about am

I going to be able to do this? I know I can't. So that confidence, then obvious say, you know, encourages your belief system. So it's like that whole cycle of you've got potentially, you release potential by taking action. The more action you take, then you're going to get a better result. The better the result, the stronger your beliefs because you've got historical proof to prove that you can do something. So I guess by the time I ended up going to the sees, it felt like a natural progression

to me. I thought I need to do this because I didn't really think of myself as being a super soldier. At the same time, I just had that, well, I've got nothing to lose mentality, what's the worst that can happen. I don't pass, I get injured, I don't make it. But if I never try, then and I know I'll vet it. So that was the seed was there early on, and thankfully I did follow it through. Yeah, real quick, sorry interrupt you, Lindsay. We need to do a shout out to our second sponsor. Thank you very

much, Hello Fresh, Thank you very much Hello Fresh. With Hello Fresh, you get farm fresh, pre portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. So here's what Hello Fresh is for those of you who don't know. It's a meal kit, right, It's a meal kit that you're going to cook. They send you. You get on you go on their website, you order the different meal kits. They have tons of great recipes, recipes you wouldn't even think of. They send you all the ingredients you

need. They give you the recipe to cook it, and you look like a stud when you pull off these fancy meals for your significant other or a stud at however it is. But you avoid, you know, costly and bad takeout and delivery. You avoid the grocery store. They can gear the meals you know for your particular diet type. It's a fantastic experience. We all love it. There's no more staring blankly in the fridge wondering what you're gonna make for dinner. We give Hello Fresh a try and dig into their

biggest venue with over forty five recipes to choose from each week. Go to HelloFresh dot com slash Teamhouse free and use code teamhouse for free breakfast for life. You heard me, free breakfast for life one breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That's free breakfast for life at HelloFresh dot com slash Teamhouse free with code teamhouse A. It's America's number one meal kit. Highly recommend

it. So Lindsey, tell us how selection went for you, Because I mean, you show up, you're super in shape, But I mean this is maybe the most challenging selection course on the planet. Yeah, and to put that to make that worse at the time. You know, it's easy to let a lot get in your head. You know, we let a lot of get in our heads anyway. In general, I think it's human

beings. And the only thing I would say back then is that is that when you've got when you're in a like an infantry battalion example, and there are there's always the guy. There's always the guy who's like the favorite, the hot you know, the hot product, who is really switched on. He's fit, he's capable, his career is doing really well. And then that guy goes and tries sas selection and then he comes back within a few

weeks, sometimes a few days. So then what does that do to the people who feel, you know, below his below his skill set or capability, they're going to go, well, if he he can't do it, then what chance have I got. So that was always a common thing with

most people. So traditionally we didn't send people at all. Hardly anyone fired for selection, and that made it even worse because there was no law of average, there was no numbers going, there was no I guarantee I would guarantee if they, if they, if they, if they drove that within our battalion there was enough guys who were good enough, but they had to send volume. And it was the case of just it just wasn't the done thing. It wasn't normal for us to go for selection. It was very

bizarre, very one off. Once There'll be a few years someone would have a cop and then usually they'd always come back because no one I was the first. I was the first guy to get in since the seventies. It'd been that long a gap. And it wasn't because I was anything special. It wasn't because I was better than everyone. It wasn't it was It was because I just thought, Okay, I'm going to do it. Why not me? Right right? Why not me? And I encourage It's one thing

I always encourage people to say. I think when they're thinking about doing something that's maybe challenging, it's like, always ask yourself a question, why why not me? The same people will buy a fucking lottery ticket and there's a lot less chance of winning a lot of read than there is to pass and of course you have control of yeah. Point, So it's people just don't put themselves forward because it means being vulnerable. It means chances of you know,

the fear of failure, the fear of being judged. No one expects you to pass because of no one else has passed beforehand. So yeah, he'll be back. He he won't be long. He wait a couple of a few days, a few weeks, he'll be back. And I know people would have said that about me, why wouldn't they? And then all of a sudden, this little guy from Fort William doesn't come back. He's gone. You know. That was my story, really, And so what was your experience at selection? When you got there? It was? You

know, I've got some great memories. I loved selection. I know that sounds crazy. It wasn't easy, don't know. It was fucking hard, of course it is. But that's what what is What is so rewarding that it's not difficult. It has to be difficult. But for me, I guess the best thing I did was go when I was so young. I was I was young enough to put up with a bullshit, be fucked around

from morning till night, and just keep going. And I didn't have that that ego of you know, thinking that I can't be told what to do, and this is this was something that I saw as a bit of a problem at times, especially when you're you're you're on a course and the whole the whole way through that course. At any moment, you can just put your hand up and say this is for me anymore, I want to go home, and they'll go see that there's the door. No one's going to

argue with you. No one's going to stop me, because if they've got to do that, you're not the right guy for that. That regiment, right, So it's very much a it's a volunteer regiment. You're a you are a volunteer. No one's making you be there, So no one's going to stand in your way if you want to go home, as simple as

that. So when I got there, I remember some advice I got for my brother, and he said, look, the best way to think about this is not to overthink it and build it up to this big thing that everyone does. He said that it's just a course. You're going on a course to learn some cool stuff and if you're good enough, you'll pass. If you're not, then hey, as long as you give it your best. So the way that I went on the course with the attitude that I

had was like, I'm going to lean into the process. I'm going to try my best and if they want me amazing. If they don't, then I'm just not good enough. But one thing is for sure, I'm definitely not going to voluntary withdraw, which is what most people do. This is the thing as well with the Special Forces in the UK. It's a joint special Forces selection process. So you've got the SAS, the SBS back then even now they've even got a couple couple more, you know, regiments that

do the same initial selection process, but then it branches off. So the SAS and the SBS do the jungle and I don't think any anyone else does that. So so for us at the time back in you know, January two thousand, I did. I started selection and it was SBS and says joint Special Force of selection process. And when I went there and I just thought, you know, I'm going to just I'm just going to lean into this, do as best I can, and I'm going to learn as much

as I can. If I don't get in, I'm going to go back to my battalion a much better soldier with much more knowledge and experience. However, I also thought to myself, if I don't pass, I'll probably leave the Army because I was kind of sick of it at that point. It

wasn't really for me. The infantry wasn't for me. It was too much bullshit, too much there was too much emphasis and what you have to do in camp to keep yourself fucking smart, you know, painting the grass green ship like that when they had a royal visit, and I was like, I just want to be in the fielding do cool soldiery stuff, you know, And that was my That was why I joined the army. Yeah, and did did you find that after you graduated from selections started SAS training?

Yeah, so you go there, so you have to apply to join the SAS. Obviously you do it off your own record. They can stop you if they want. But I was very lucky at the time. I had a couple of guys. My company commander at the time and my battalion was really supportive and he thought was a great idea. You know, he respected

me for doing it. An amazing guy, really good leader. And I remember he said, look, and you know, I've got a lot to thank him for because I was out in costable at the time, and we still had about maybe a month and a half two months left of the tour, and he said, look, just go because when I went on selection, you do like a pre selection course, so it's like a three day thing, come to Hereford and you do this this pre course, and then

at the end of that pre course they then say you're ready or you should maybe wait six months, twelve months, and sometimes they'll say this isn't for you. You're never going to you know, you're not right the right cut. So I went and did this three day thing and I expected to be going like six months afterwards or seven months afterwards. And then what happened was I got to the end of this pre selection, did really well on all the tests and the guy said, look, we'll see you in January,

and this is November. So I was like, I was like panicking. Now I was on a flat spin out to see I said, what do you mean is that I'm not going to be ready and he says, you're ready, You're ready, don't worry. Just don't don't overdo it, don't overtrain, you get fit on the course. You'll you're young, you're you'll be absolutely fine, come and do it in January. So I went back to my battalion and said, look, they want they want me to go in January. And my all s was like, well why not, Why

aren't you just getting excited about it? Just just go for it. And I said, well, I'm not going to have enough time of trainings im out here, and you know, he says go home. Then he says, don't want to see you again. So he sent me home to Scotland, which there was loads of fucking mountains up in Scotland, so myself and my brother's train up there. So I went and did my preparation up in my own, my hometown and the surrounding areas of my hometown, which is

the Scottish Islands. So you know, I was very lucky, very fortunate that they let me get away and get myself prepared for it. And then that was it. You know, started the course. And when you start a selection, that's a six month process. HM. In the first four weeks it's it's done a like modulated block. So the first month is what they call Aptitude, which is down in the break and Beacons and another place

called Eland Valley, which I'm actually going there tomorrow funnily enough. But you do that, you do the Hills phase, which is pretty much getting from A to B with a cent amount of wait in a certain time distance and all all they want to see is you've got the attitude and the grit determination to get yourself through that physical test, because that's that's a mental land physical test, but it's it's you're not being tested as a soldier at that point.

It's really just about an endurance and everybody of the man and they lose a lot of people. You know, there's probably two hundred and fifty guys I think start and by the end of that phase is probably fifty left. So they do they do separate the week from the week from the chaff pretty quickly, and then what's the next phase after that? So after that four weeks, so you do a month in the hills, you do a series

of tests. So the last week is like call it test week. You do a series of test marches individual where you've got to you know, get distance, time speed in the set times are under or you don't pass. So you've got to pass those tests. That culminates with what they call endurance, which is like a sixty five kilometer till March. You know, you've got like twenty hours to do that, most people getting around the eighteen eighteen

sort of hour mark. And then when if you pass that and then you then come to herap and do you start to do the pre jungle training. So we do like like like a couple of weeks. I think it was actually about four weeks. You do like a pre jungle took maybe two weeks forget, I think it's actually two weeks, you know, two weeks in

the UK learning jungle drill. So they teach you all the all the jungle tactics, the basic tactics or when you then start to go out to when you go to the jungle and then you get put in your your patrols and stuff like that and you go through everything, you learn all the lessons. They teach a load of stuff. Obviously in the classroom you do practice drills, dry training, and then when you go out to Brunei, that's when

you start the jungle phase. And that that was when I would say that right at the beginning of that was probably one of the most the times that I felt the most pressure because you do you do the live firing phase so you go to the ranges. For the first week it's all live firing, and the live firing range is always always as a soldier, it's always something that you get. It can get you quite anxious because it is live ammunition.

You don't want to fox something up because there's a lot more safety involved. You're being watched like a like a hawk by several director staff that are all very experienced SES guys, So you're really really under the microscope at that point. It's not like you just get your grid reference and then you fuck off to the next grid reference and you're on the hill. No one's there to watch you or anything like that. You can kind of pick your nose

and scratch your ass and no one's going to going to see it. When you when you go to jungle training, they are watching you like a fucking hawk. They don't miss a thing, you know. And when it's live firing, you know, everything's getting marked, everything's getting judged, and you have to pass it, you know, And it's it's something that people do fail that and people do make massive suck ups because the pressure gets to them.

Either make a safety mistake or they leave a pouch is open or the drop stuff and it could be anything, but you're being marked the whole time. And I would say the whole process that was when I felt most sort of like fucking, the pressure's on here. But thankfully, yeah, that was pretty good, so it didn't struggle with anything, but it was pretty

nerve wracking. And then you go into the jungle after that, so you do you do four weeks under the canopy and there's an exercise called atap Hurdle, which is the SA selection process in the jungle where you are then again scrutinized and you're under the under the microscope for or twenty eight days in the jungle, and that's that tests and character. It's it's interesting because the SAS and the SBS are often compared, you know to like Delta Seal Team six

in the in the counter terrorism realm. But SAS has this long tradition of focus or at least an initial focus on jungle warfare, where where other American units, you know, they might have back in the day it might have gone down to Fort Sherman and Panama to do some jungle training whatever. But is it is it because of is it because of like the SSASS history that

that jungle warfare is still kind of a focus of THEIRS. I think that was something that we've obviously done a lot fishing the Bonneo campaign and Malia campaign. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of experience on during those times with the old school guys that were in the in the you know, in the s s back then. But I guess everything comes down to the strategy of the manning process. So it's a bit like like I said

earlier about Scottish regiments. Someone at some point says that we should need to restructure this and it just comes down to the strategic capabilities at the end of the day. So I mean they changed, there was something that changed, but when I when I joined, even which it was actually really thankful for. So when it comes down to like the manning obviously the Director of Special Forces and all the head honchos down there that make all the big decisions,

it's just a capability thing. What do we need, who who do we need, where do we need them if this happens? What do we need the capability to be? So we would test capabilities. When I was in the regiment, the you know, the commander officer would say, right,

Director Special Forces has said that you need to do. He wants the capability of a cyber squadron to do a two mile surface swim at night from two miles out of shore, tactical over fucking you know, beach landing and all that sort of stuff, and so you would get you would get these things all the time in various capacities. But when it comes to you know, like the capabilities of that, we're changing when I joined, so I joined boat troops, so we would actually work closely with the SBS. So we

did our insurgeon course for the SBS. So when I first joined, you joined the regiment, you pass selection and then you go and do your your troop capability. So there are four troops and four cyber squadrons, so each cyber squadron is essentially like a mirror image of each other. So you get a squadron, B squadron and D and G and then within those squadrons you have a boat troop, you have a freefall troop, you have the abilit

troop, and you have mountain troop. Right, So each guy that joins each respective troop will then go to do his specialist skill for that troop, and then after that you go and do your specialist patrol skill, which is either demolitions or patrol medic So when I went down the pool, did my my my boat course with the SBS. We did that. We all did that together, the sess SBS guys all do the boat course. And then the next thing that we were supposed to do was the dive course go tow

diving. Now I did like a dive aptitude. When I got there, ended up bursting the fucking ear drum. Had a really bad experience, and it was it was the first time in the whole process of anything I did Special Forces that I thought, I am not fucking going to be good at this. I don't like it. Maybe if I did it enough, I would I would have been competent, but I fucking hated it. I almost drowned a few times as a kid. I had a real fear of ironically

had a real fear of water going into the regiment. And then they put me in boats. And always remember, like me and my one of my best mates at the time, we were both getting told we going to a boat troops. So we went to see the training officer. He says right, Bruce, And my mate's tick name is Rownie, says Bruce. And rowing boat troop. And we stood there and I was like, you know, I'm happy to be here. I'll go anywhere you put me, even if I don't like it. It is an initial idea. It turned out

I love boat Troop. But at the time I was like, hey, and my mate said, well, he said, I'm not very good at swimming. He was. He was a ship swimming as well. I'm not very good at swimming. And the training officer says, you don't need to be able to be being a fucking boat. Get out. But then then shortly after that, they took the dive capability away from the SEES so we would all do so, the boat troops and the SBS would do diving capability.

And about a couple of weeks before I was supposed to go on my dive course, I was shipping myself because I just didn't like being in the war and not under the water. Anyway, they said we're going to the taking the capability away, so they took the default capability away from the SBS. They took the diet capability with the s S and they just said that you have the lot right right, mine share. So yeah, so that's

how it basically works. It's very interesting. So after the jungle training, so this is still like when we think of selection, we think of a four week like we think of the four week your your app you said it was a beacons aptitude, Yeah, aptitude right, But for you guys, it's short of like Green Team or or OTC or whatever you're it's even though you've passed selection, it's still selection. Uh yeah, throughout your initial like training, right, well you do you do? Well, that's not the

selection is six months long. So people think of the s S selection process of the hills. Is that what's most that's the first part you're doing. It's probably the bit that most people know about. But that is essentially only the aptitude for the rest of the course. So that's really the start point. You're off the starting blocks at that point, but you've just passed the

first hurdle and it's certainly not the most difficult one. The hardest part of selection, I think when it comes to all things that are included, so not just the physical side of things, but when it comes to the mental side of things. That how resilient you are mentally. That's when that's when your your character is tested more so because you're assimilating new skills. You have to work as a small in a small team. You have to be someone who kind of you know, as a team player, and there's a lot

of guys who get found out. You know, it exposes weaknesses and people like no other climate, the jungle because it's a very testing environment. Is you need to have patience in the jungle because you can lose your shit pretty easily. I always remember one day I was I was on a patrol and on we used to use them sixteens then on selection, which are quite a long weapon. Obviously as you know, you know, it's not like it's not like them before, which is shot a shorter version. M sixteen are

quite a long weapon to have in the jungle. And you had the black fireing attachment you probably from other these anyway, guys. So the black fire attachment you have on on an M sixteen or a or an M four there was this little T bar at the top they you turn, so it's like

good little T bar coming out on the top of your weapon. And then every fucking time, you know, you'd either tripping a piece of tripping a piece of vine with your boots, or's you you're tired and sh you're tripping a piece of vine, or the the BFA the Black Fire Attachment always got caught in a piece of vine hanging down and you'd be like walking and then all of a sudden your fucking weapons back. I remember one day I was like, but I was just being an angry Scotsman and this happened one too

many times. I was like for fox set, you know, and I lost my ship and I got caught. So a guy called Nol, who is my directive staff in the jungle, who was a fucking legend in the jungle. This guy, he was like a ghost, like a ninja, and he I turned around and he was just sat there, crouch down in the shadow of this like eyeball sticking out looking at me, and the thought, fuck's that he just needs to pop up everywhere? I was like, how many of this guy is there? So then so then afterwards we had

the day brief and he was not an Irish, this guy. So he says, he says, Bruce, he says, one word of advice, don't fight the fucking jungle. He'll never win. And I always remember that, and he's he's right, you know, but he let me get me a pass. He's like, you know, let you away with that one, but stop losing your fucking temper. And so yeah, it's a very testing environment. You know, everything you've got to do, and you've got

the opportunity to leave. So this, this test, this is such a such a profound testamental resilience because at any time you can just go fuck this. I'm all I'm sweaty and tired and hungry. I'm sick of being being scrutinized all the time, especially if someone makes a fuck up. You used to always find that people that can't take criticism, people that can't get over the fact that they've they've made one mistake. So then the lyric get to them, get in their heads and they go off. Fuck it was the

point in staying here because I'm not going to pass. Next thing, you know, they're on the helipad the next morning, fucking on the helicopter away out of the jungle. So it's really, you know, a case of if you can stick if you can stick it out and get to the end, pass or fail. The main thing is you need to just keep going, and that's what most people don't do. They just they just put their

hands up and say I've had enough. So when you come out of the jungle phase, I mean, when you when you finish the jungle, that's really when they say at that point that whoever's left after that point is like they call it the hardcore element, and they expect the people who are left at the at the end of the jungle phase, they really expect them to be there right at the end. So at that point, by the way,

you're only halfway through the selection process. So when you come back from the jungle, you're three months into a six month process, and then the next three months is then modulated into different blocks, so you've got like observation posts, you've got combat and survivally, you've got communications, you have your your parishute course. All these things are obviously modulated counter terrorism course. So these are just you're learning all the little skills that are required for the entry

level trooper in the SEES to get to the squadron. When you get to your squadron, that's when you start continuation training. So the first thing you've got to do is you're insurgent skill, be it boats, mounting, mobility, or freefall. You then do your insurgent course that makes you capable to

be in that skill set for the troop that you're in. And then when you're in the troop, you then do your specialist skill within your patrol, which will be one or two things, either patrol, medic or demolitions. So it does go on for quite some time, you know, and obviously that's it's one of those things in the military that you're always doing something new and learning new things and skills. And then the capability of each squadron that rotates, so it's only a two year cycle. It was back then.

It used to be in a two year rotation whereby you're going to like stand by squadron, you're going you do the counter terrorist team for six months, so you're always moving around. It's like as carousel of activities. And so by the time that you finished your initial training and get to your troop and become you know, an active you know operator, I'm guessing this is about

two thousand and one now, not two thousands, six months. Yeah, you know, you do your continuation training from the squad see you're actually in the squadron at that point. So when you pass, you pass the six month selection process, you get badged, you get you get your belt and berry, and then you go to the Saber squadron and from there you then do your insurgent skills and all that sort of stuff. But the troop skill

is pretty early. You do that straight away. Everyone does that straight away, and then you do your you can something's waited six months to a year before you do your specialist patrol sciale. Oh wow. Interesting and being this is two thousand, you know, obviously there are there are there are operations, but it's nothing like the post nine eleven world. What what was like The SAS is primary focus during this time. So so I guess when I

joined and I banged in two thousand, went straight to the squadron. You know, there was there was a bit going on for that first year. We did exercises around the world and went some places, but then nine to eleven happened and I'd only been in like just over a year at that point, so it was kind of my career was kind of like the perfect storm, really, or if you want to join, you want to do shit and then I was quite lucky in the sense that I say lucky, but

you know, take that how you will. But I was people don't join the sas to sit in camp and do nothing for the reason yourself. You want to go in operation. So that is your primary focus that you want to get in operations and you want to you when to get noisy. So when nine a living happened, obviously that that you know, and I set the world on fire. So it was big, and afghan was obviously the

main one. So we were we were actually on a training exercise in the Oman and then we got the word that we were going to go to Afghanistan. So we went from the Old Man doing a mobility exercise and we went straight to Afghanistan. We went, we went to Bagrap. We inserted into Bagram Airfield when it was just tended camp. There was nothing there. It was minds all over the place, was still cleaning the place for mines.

We were living in tents. I mean, it was fucking I remember the first ever PX that was in Bagram Airfield and it was a fucking what we call a touch shop. It was about the size of my living smaller than this room and it was like some like chocolate bars and some Canza cola and that was kind of it, you know, and then the PX was fucking

built. A city was built within about twelve months. But yeah, that was my first experience of Afghanistan was going out into the into Bagram Airfield and then we deployed from the users as a fob we were that was our or for upulating base. And then then we we had full squadron there and we split into two half squadrons one one half on foot, one on vehicles, and we our remit was to clear clear potential areas where where the talaban could

have been, could have been hiding in the caves and whatnot. So we just been deployed in you know, in different capacities and spent like weeks weeks searching for you know, potential hideouts. You know. That was my first reel. That was my first real operations with the Special Forces, apart from things like little little you know, two days to Bosnia to do some arrest stuff and onnother that was kind of kind of taming comparison, But yeah,

afghan was my first real taste of operations. And then obviously after that, I Raq happened in two thousand and three, so like a year later. And then from that point really I did a lot of small team stuff, so like small team tasks doing security for intelligence services and other small team stuff. And that was like you were you were here, there and everywhere, and again because we rotate, there was different squadrons would then take over the

the operational capability. Then you go back to being on training again, so you go back to being on standby squadron or counter terror squadron, and that's how it all works, So you're you're you're never really in the one spot doing the one thing for that long. You know. It's probably like before

I left, it was probably like a few months at a time. And then eventually they started doing six month tours again, which was an unheard of thing when I first joined, and before that, no one went away for six months. It was always very short term three months probably max. And then the six month tours in Iraq were quite a thing for for quite a few years. So when you guys first got to Afghanistan, was there was there a solid idea of what your command were you subordinated to, like you

asked to a general command. Was there was there an idea of what you guys were doing or were you guys just kind of pitching and where you could we were, well, we were we were essentially searching and taking and dominating grounds. So we were securing areas for then like the Royal Marines for example, they when we were there to start with, we would we would we would go out and search an area and you know, essentially fucking Aliban.

But when there was an area that was cleared then like they were like high features and dominant ground in the landscape that we would then get ready for the Marines to come in, they would they would then take that position over and they would they would man that as a position. So that was just you know, it was it was presence. But at the same time, when it comes to strategy and this is something that I you know, results lead

clues. So the SEES was always it was not always notorious for its It's more covert stuff, so you know, we're not we went typically a fighting force. There was more to surveillance and reporting on things that were going on to then let battalions come in and fucking run over it. So that's what the infantry's for, right, So there wasn't that many of us because we weren't no one's, no one's you know, dispensable, but the regiment's not

that big. They were very precious about where they were they would put us, and obviously, you know, we weren't essentially a fighting force in that sense, or that wasn't our primary focus. We would be in there to report and stuff and gather intelligence and whatnot. It was more sneaky beaky. But at the same time, there's a time and a place that that works. It works fucking great in the jungle, doesn't work in Afghanistan, doesn't

work in the desert. So back to ninety one up. You know, back in the first Gulf War, when you look at when the Sees went in there, there was obviously a couple of things went really fucking bad because the strategy was wrong because they were they were sending guys in eight man patrols on foot on a fucking surfaced like a pool table, right, you know, so there's nowhere to hide. So when it came to being in these areas, we when we actually went to Afghanistan, we sat in it in

a and an opsmet and we sat in a debrief from the Kiwi. So the Kiwi Sas had been there before us actually, and they had tried to go out and be covert in small teams, and they boughted the missions and came back and said, look, guys, you cannot fucking hide anywhere. And if anyone anyone watching this has seen the film alone, Survivor probably a good depiction of how it actually feels and looks out there actually were very well

made. There's been very well well made parts of that movie that it really reminds you of the terrain out in Afghanistan. I didn't know where that was filmed, that that movie, but it's quite fucking accurate in some ways. So when we went out there, we thought, well, if you can't hide, the only other thing to do is is show force. Right, this is the tap then you've got, and this basically stand there saying you can come towards us, but you better be fucking ready because we were ready.

That's kind of the message route and that was that that carried over into Iraq as well, So we went into a raft. It was very different than ninety one, you know, twelve years later, it was a very different story. We went out there, we went on force and we showed the presence because there's no fucking point otherwise because you can't hide, right acould do what we were doing, you know, this search for WMDs and shit like that. They went there, funny, strangely enough, went' there.

That's another story for another day. And how would you guys, because a lot of times when you know us Tier one units or you know, deploy they they they'll use this Wordnate unit or another unit to provide their security to support things like that because they're not large enough and they don't move in large enough forces. Yeah, to provide that force. How did without giving away

any TTPs, would you guys, know, not at all? Would you guys bring in like the marine, the Royal Marines or conventional forces or parers to help you in those in those exercises or those Yeah, yeah, we did. And this is this is another thing that really displays that one of the one of the parts of the ethos of the regiment was which is humility, because you know, you're a fool if you think that you're jack of all trades and a master of some as well, and you can do everything.

So what we did was when we were going out to certain. So when we went to Afghanistan, for example, we went to Iraq, we had a we had a platoon, we had we had a mortar platoon from one of the parachute regiments who then deployed with us. And they were fucking amazing because that's what they do all the time. They are full time Martipleton and the capability they had it was phenomenal and they were very professional and and they they they sort of bolted onto us and deployed with us to Afghanistan.

And you know, that's like saying, well, we can't do this ship. We don't have enough people, we don't have the skills really to do that as well as they do. So why not bring an infantry an infantry platoon, Right, it's specialist in a skill that it's going to be an absolute asset and and that that would happen. And then after I left, actually they started something called the Special Force of Support Group, which was Parachute Regiment, and I think other other people can join that as well. I

think it's like a specialist support group that was attached to the regiment. And again it's there to pack out the numbers because it's like outsourcing things in a business, right, you're not going to do your podcast and you're not going to do all the tech stuff yourself and send all the emails and you get somebody else to do that, and then you concentrate on what you do best. You should just get on that. What's that? Am I wrongs are das our chi wal here's our chi now now d is the best of me?

But yeah, you're right, like, and that's I think that's one of the things that you know, people don't think about it. Expercis watching movies. You think of, you know, special operations as these you know, four man to twelve man teams wearing all black, best thing in the places. But if you're in a premissive environment like the United States or Britain or whatever, that's fine. But if you're someplace where the bad guys can come from the next village over those six or twelve guys, aren't, you

know, it's not enough. And and you know lately you've got to learn from history. But looking at Vietnam, yeah, any anyway in fact that there's been you know, some kind of conflict bar apart from like when when the first golf four happened obviously and then the coalition forces going in all the Iraqi surrender, because that's not an army as a consct army, they'll be forced to be there. It's not a professional army rates So there's a different

a different gravey altogether. But when you're going to fight a motivated resistance like the fucking Taliban, who have lived in all their leaves, who have grown up in the mountains, you know the mountains like the back of their hands, can can navigate it, can smell all the way around. They can travel on foot pretty quickly because they're always traveling light most of the time. Now, when you get you you went into someone's backyard, Vietnam, be

Afghanistan, any anywhere. You know, you're always you're always at the disadvantage. So you've got to show a bit of humility in a lot of ways. And you've got to be humble when it comes to being realistic about what you need to get a job done. And I think that's what I would say, that's part of the reason. I mean, I wasn't there. But when it comes to what the regiment did in ninety one, there were some fucking bad decisions made. It cost the guys their lives. Bad decisions

at the at the high level. And I think that was because you know, where the fucking sees, we don't we'll get this, we've got this, and just sprinkle some special forces dust on it and it will all be fight right on reality, right, that's not reality, you know. So there's some ship decisions made it And I remember actually there was one patrol. There was one patrol and B squadron that and there's a book about this.

I forget I'll get the name of the book, Zero not not Bravto, because that was the so Bravatoo. Zero was the patrol that that fulfilled.

They went in, they went on the ground and they followed through with the mission, or they attempted to fall through the mission, but it was it was again there were there were fucking lamps of the slaughter, you know, really because it was a bad idea that what they were getting those guys to do and the tactics that they employed and to do that were really it's a really bad idea from the get going it and it ended in disaster, you know, it was. It was a real unfortunate, unfortunate chain of events

that happened. But there was another patrol, and again there there was a something. One of the guys wrote book about this, about this chain of events, and the other patrol that that was basically like a carbon copy of Brabatu zero. They went in on see Kings or SH forty seven to forget

I think they were SH forty seven's. They got on the ground, the patrol commander, using that vision sust out that the terrain was so fucking flat there was nowhere to go, didn't have enough time to get any anywhere to awardy that they could potentially hide for a bit. I mean, it was a fucking terrible idea. But what he did was he actually aborted the mission.

He aborted the mission, and as far as I believe, he was criticized heavily for it because the mission that the patrols went into the in the ground, one patrol stays out there partly because of the patrol commander's fucking ego as well, I would say, from what I can gather, and not aborting the mission because it was such a bad idea. So the one guy who aborted the mission with his patrol the back of the helicopter and then they

sucked off basically by the base and said this is a ship idea. Yeah, the terrain didn't support their mission and haindsay once everything else went fucking tits up with the other patrol Robercuza, it was like you were you were right. He made the right call because if he'd have stayed in the ground, it could have been even worse for them, right, you know, people

people lost their laves when they shouldn't really have use those tactics. Well, and we saw something similar in Afghanistan with Operation Red Wings right where you know, yes, yeah, six Seals STV team sent down on a yeah, on a record six seals out in you know, Indian country and in a place where those people own that terrain, they know everything that's going on around there, not a lot of you know, natural train features to hide in

and things like that. Yeah, how was it for you guys, because you know, we already had Jaysck in place, you know, so there was that sort of some of the some control over the special operations. But for you guys, did you have to fight battles with your command in terms of this is not what like what you say in the movies isn't real, This is not our capability or this is not a smart way to do this. How was that for you in the initial parts of Afghanistan, Well,

you just don't go you're not going looking for a fight. You're there prepared for the fight, but you don't go looking for the fight. You're not there to fight. You're there to to you know, find in report and record, primarily as a primary function of the special posters. Really, but you know, things do happen where I mean I remember once in in Iraq

and again to switch to Iraq as an example of this. There was there was decision made at one point because we were we were trying to we were clearing all these areas, right, so there was two saber squadrons and there was a squadron of SBS in the desert as well, both and we had a certain geographical area that we had to had to move across and we had to clear or report on the situation, and there was it was. It was a stupid amount of distance, and I mean it was I remember the

first five days in Iraq on the ground. I always say I've never been as tired of my fucking life as I was then. I've never experienced tiredness like that ever, because we had so much distance to cover, so much terrain to cover, it was almost undoable. I mean it was everyone was up. It was functioning way below optimal, put it that way. But I remember, you know, we we we got to a point where we were clearing this massive airfield and at the time, there was only a half

squadron, so it was probably about twenty guys in a few vehicles. You probably like, you know, it's six vehicles or something that with a couple of external factions, a couple of intelligence guys and stuff from the US actually as well. But we were clear clearing, were on the border of this airfield, and we didn't know what was going to be resistant within the airfield because we couldn't really see to the extent. This place was fucking massive.

And so we get we get sent down me and it's the first time I've ever been actively shot. It was the first time I've actually fucking felt myself dodging bullets and wondering if the next one was going to hit my head. And that was a weird experience, as you likely know. But we went down the border of this airfield and then it was always remember thinking about this when I was in basic training because I criticized this afterwards because when when you're

in basic infantry school, you there's a there's a tactic. There was. Any guys that are in the reserves here watching this, don't take offense, don't take it personal. But they would make a joke that one of the things you would do to locate the enemy. I'm not sure they do this in the US, right, but one of the tactics that they would use to locate the enemy, so within within the battle Drulls procedure when it comes

to you, you know, reacting to effective enemy fire. You know, you find cover and all that, and then you're trying to locate the enemy. And if you can't locate the enemy, one of the one of the methods that they would teach you is to is to draw the enemy spire. It was called so draw enemy spire, like you send someone a bound forward and see who shoots that. So they would then jo and say send so we called the ta's like territorial armies that our reserve force. So they would

say, always send the TA guy. If you've got a TA guy attached, to send him draw the enemy spire because he's the most fucking dispensable,

right. So anyway, so back to Iraq. We're in this vehicle and we're going down the border, down the down the perimeter of this airfield and it was essentially like fucking draw the enemy spire, you know, see what happens because we couldn't locate it. We knew there was there was there was rounds by fire, there were people firing at some somewhere, but we couldn't

see them. So we were driving down the down the perimeter of this airfield and all of a sudden, this one almighty fucking burst opens up and it's coming right at us. There's two vehicles covering each other, and it was the first time we had to actually fucking you know, you know, withdraw from from heavy heavy fire, and we didn't know how many of there was. We just knew that was it was manned. There's fucking lots of rounds

flying. And we managed to break, you know, break out of the firefight and we got back to cover and at that point we actually retreated because we thought there's there's there's not enough of us here. We've don't it. You know, Usually British Army tactics was always like a four to one ratio, you're going to go to assort a position which is a four to one ratio in your favor. So we didn't have a fucking clue. So it

just was too much of a risk. So the decision was made to withdraw, and then we you know, we just wouldn't fucking go any further because you never know what's going to be around the corner, so to speak. And you got to think about everything when it comes to decisions being made analysis

that happens on the ground by commanders. There's always a risk and reward balance, right, So high risk have to be fucking really high reward, right, otherwise you know, there's just no point and it's tough for those situations. Also, it's it's likely. Yeah, it's like the commander that you said aborted the patrol in the Gulf. W is that you know, it's

kind of a zero or hero moment. And the thing is, if you're the person calling out the danger and saying this is a high risk scenario with little reward you you you can start to look like a chicken little or people who are really motivated to do the opp And then if you go on the op and nothing happens. Then it's like, oh see, you know you're worried for not told yourself. Yeah I told you so. Yeah, it's and that's the thing that and that's what's defficult at being a leader, being

a commander, because you've got to make some tough decisions. You've got to look at yourself in the middle. You have to answer to people as well. And I think you've always got to make a decision sometimes fucking quickly that you're going to you're gonna be able to be happy with. And you know, it's a it's a it's a difficult one, right. I mean, no one's got a still ball. No one can tell what's going to happen.

Some of it is luck and fate. Whatever happens happens, right, But at some point, you've got to make a fucking decision, right, you have to make a decision, because it's like that old said, if you stand on the crossroads for long enough and don't make a decision, some of they'll fucking run you over eventually. Yeah, you need to go one

way. You need to make a decision. And sometimes the wrong decision is better than no decision is after it's done, right, you know so, and then this is the thing is I always remember when when I first went to b Squadron, when I passed selection and I was looking obbson, I was in awe of all the all the photographs all over. We called it the interest Room. It's like the little shrine within the squadron, you know, office block, and all the all the pictures from every single generation throughout

the years covered the walls. And there was this there was one in the hallway and it was the it was the guys at at the back of the tailgate of the Helly before the Brave Zero troveing in. So it was the last photograph to get taken before they deployed. And it's a really cool foot

grab. It's in the book. It's in the Braveger's book actually, but this same photograph with all the guys on it, it was on the wall and it and it said at the top of the of the picture, and don't criticize what you don't understand, because there was obviously a lot of criticism from different directions from right, you know, various things that happened. And I think that's that's a good point that because it's easy to criticize when it's

not you. It's easy to criticize when something's already happened that you could have said, Ah, I called you, so you didn't fucking know. That could have gone either way. So I think it's it's very easy to criticize, and you know, you got to, I think be respectful that some poor fucker has to look at themselves in the middle. They'll be proud of themselves the rest of their lives because they made a decision that they know is wrong. And it's never going to be from malicious intent, but it can

sometimes be from a place of ego. Right then obviously sacrifices other people potentially, that's the other thing. Yeah, I want to ask you a little bit more in depth about like a rack and what it was like when you started of deploying there more unlike I imagine slipping into that deployment rotation. Yeah. So, so I only did the one tour with with the squadron over in Iraq. It was the last operation or three that I did actually,

and that was off the back of Afghasa. So I was on a on a team task in Afghanistan, a small team task, and I actually went from Afghanistan on on tour, on deployment, and I went straight to think, go home. I went straight to Iraq. And then that was when we were actually next door to the Delta guys, and there was like the Ranger Battalion company company rangers who would do our orders and stuff like that, like we said earlier, you know, they would they would do the like

they would man accordings. They would deploy with us and jobs and then between us and Delta, you know, some some operations were jointed somewhere individual, but we were next door to them. And that that was all the the you know, the the city stuff, you know, you know, assaulting buildings in the middle of the night. That was was what that was very much all about, which was and I always remember like that I had one

of those I always remember the first time that I did this. It was one of those moments like I pinch yourself moment, right, and it was like it was like being in a movie, because nothing else is like the movies when you when you get to the squadron, because when you do when you do something like room and combat. I always remember thinking when I first had room combat, when we were taught on selection course, the counter terrorist

drills where you wear all your black gear, the respberrayers. Having watched Hoodia's Winds and other movies where people fly out of fucking helicopters to windows and then they run down corridors and through doors and it all happens very quickly, whereas in reality it's really slow, really methodical. Yes, everything's really deliberate. Even in an emergency situation where you're doing it in emergency response, it's still

it's still slower than you expect. So then when we were in Iraq and the first time that we went out on the ground and actually did a house assault in the middle of the night, that was when I got this moment of how the fucking I get any better than this, because this is like the coolest ship I've ever done in my life, right, And I was sat on this on the skid of a little bird with the fast rope, and we were we were the roof team and this one one up that we

did and we were the roof team. So I was a guy with one of the fast ropes and when you go in, you know you're you're going in towards the roof of the building in the middle of the city somewhere, and it's that you can see the explosions got off, the entry explosions,

because they go off for the top team lands for obvious reasons. And I remember just being in the last seconds before landing on the roof of this building and seeing all these in this the dead and night, it's like fucking three o'clock in the morning, whatever it was, and there's all these explosions going off in mult in every single aspect of this building, and then we're in a hell. You go into this fucking roof and it was just like, holy shit, this is like, this is like the ship. You know,

this is what this is what I joined for. And then you know you're running, you know, you're you're going through building Dorothy. But it's like that. That was when I thought, this is like being in a Special Forces. This is what it's all about. And I guess after I had done that, in all honesty, it was like, how what can you do now? That's better than that? Right? Yeah, there is

there is nothing more exciting. But I mean there was other things that I did that were that were probably more I felt more pressure with the responsibility. So there was one job I did when I was in the squadron, we we were up in the the and the nim Rods with the the f through the Air Force, and we would be the overwatch, so when all these things were happening, we'd be in the sky thousands feet up. And I was like this day on the ground, the surveillance in the sky for the

whole squadron. So I remember once following this, following this one vehicle for about six hours without looking away from the screen and my fucking eyes to follow out my head, but I remember that it was it was surveillance followed by

the talk onto a job. So I literally watched through this fucking high powered lens the Saber squadron arriving, all the wages, the cording going in, and it was like watching it from a bird's eye view in detail and thinking, ah shit, this is how it looks from above, and watching the guys even stack up on the doors and the windows, and then the helly team coming in. I saw the whole thing happen, and I was responsible

for making sure that they knew what was going on the whole time. Who was outside the buildin, who was on the fucking roof, who was walking around. I was reporting on everything. I mean, I was fucking. I was mentally fucked. That was. I was a corporal then, so I was. I wasn't like a senior guy I was. I was a corporal. I was a junior NCO, but I was. It was only the only sees guy that was on this job with the Air Force, so I had a lot of responsibility. And I remember thinking to myself, right,

I didn't. I tried not overthink it because I thought I am literally the fucking eyes for a whole squadron for this operation, and it was. I thought about it afterwards and realized how how much responsibility it had been, and I was glad that I hadn't actually, you know, considered the magnitude

of that beforehand, because it'd have probably been shipping myself even more. But I always remember thinking back on that and being quite proud of myself because I did a fucking awesome job on it, and you know, and they said that, you know, that was fucking awesome, great eyes in the sky, and you know, all the communication was brilliant, and that was something that gave me a lot of confidence actually in my abilities as a soldier.

But then after that It wasn't long after that I actually left. I left the regiment, you know, probably a year or so after that. What motivated that decision? I mean, it sounds like you really loved being a soldier, you really loved the regiment. Iron was that a difficult decision to decide to leave it? It was really difficult and it was really easy at

the same time. And then that might not make sense, but I had a gut feeling, and the gut feeling wasn't It wasn't anything to do with I don't like this anymore, because I did like it and I love the job. But I guess my mind, just my mind just changed and I started thinking about life differently. I started to realize that if it was going to if I was going to stay in the in the regiment, I was kind of like a turning point. I was at a turning point where I

had to make it. You know. It was almost like a fork in the road, and I thought, I've acchoose this life. Then I was witnessed to I was witness to people who had a lot of marriage. Probably I mean the guys who are married in the regiment. It doesn't have great success on that front. There's a lot of divorce. There's a lot of you know, not so nice endings in that sense for some of the families

because there's a lot of divorce. There's a hypercentage divorced, right And I could see that it was a massive problem within the regiment, and so I guess that was something at the time. You know, I end up getting I ended being married when I was like about twenty five, and at the time I was then with I, I was married then. Actually I was married, so I was married. I didn't have any kids at that point, but planned to have kids, and I guess that was quite an influence

at the time. I thought, you know, I want that to be successful. I want to have children, I want to be able to see them, and I also want to be in control of my life. And I felt like really owned by the military, because you are, they own you, and they dictate where you're going to be, how long you're going to be there for, what are you going to do, what you can tell your family. And it takes a special kind of woman to be with a guy who does that job. He's a lot of patients, a lot

of commitment, and a lot of understanding. So I guess for me, it was like I thought, I've done lots of things in the last deverle years, you know what. I had done a lot of operations, there were multiple facets to that. I've done small team tasks, squadron deployments. I've been lots of places and had a great time. And I sensed that if I was to if I was to stay, then then that I'd be committing to the full time. And I thought that might be the detriment of

having a family or having control over my life. However, if I chose to leave, was I going to regret it? But I thought about it for a little while, and then every time I thought about it just kept on coming back to the same thing. I wanted to have more control over my life. And I knew as well. It was something that kind of told me that I just there was something else I had to do, something else I had to be doing that wasn't this, and I didn't know where

it was. I didn't actually have a clue where it was. But I had this real desire to be an influence to other people that I wanted to help people with, you know, genuine life problems and stuff like that. At the same time, I was into my bodybuilding. It was into my you know, I was. I was bodybuilding then recreationally, not competitively, but I guess but that I was like, well, maybe I could do something with this. Maybe I could be a personal trainer, Maybe I could

be a coach. Maybe I could do this, Maybe I could open a gym, maybe I could you know, working fitness. And that's what I did when I left after a couple of years. You know, I did actually go into the gym business for a number of years. How did you like that? I mean, was that a good transition for you? Really difficult? Difficult the business side of it or the coaching side of it, everything, Because I think I would say I didn't realize how difficult it was

going to be. It was more of a it was more of a mental thing. It was the it was the environmental contrast. It was a shock the system that I didn't really handle that well. I I'm being completely honest. I didn't really take to being a civilian dealing with civilians in a customer facing business. I was really bad. I was really bad at didn't have a clue with business. I remember thinking to myself, well, retrospectively. This is not realizing how hard I had found that until quite a number of

years afterwards. I actually had a realization one day that what I had from the age of seventeen until I was dirty. It was like I'd had structure, I had a mission, had had to fucking had, I had purpose. I had community by you know, the cameraderie with the other guys, and I fucking missed all that. You know, I didn't miss being in the army, so to speak, but I missed the guys. I missed some of the work, obviously, because you never really lose that. But

I I saw I was lost. And I guess for me, like doing bodybuilding, it's super strict, right, so it gives you structure, it gives you purpose, gives you some teleological fucking goals, and so I guess. Although I was really into fitness and wanting to look good and all that shit, like the vanity becomes with that, but it was for me, it wasn't really about ego and vanity. It was more about there's a big

part of that. But I would say I've always had a creative mind, very artistic, So for me, bodybuilding was about stopping your body and changing it in a way that you could create something that was you know, that was desirable or you know, that was artistic and had an element of beauty to it. So for me, bodybuilding was like an art form really, but it was also the structure side of bodybilding that kept me in and let it kept me attached to something. And again that was at the detriment of

other things. I was never that good at being I was never that good at being in a relationship, you know, being a husband, being a partner to anybody. I wasn't ever that good at that because I almost had some sort of fucking weird attachment thing, and I think going on in that

in that situation, I was all was a good dad. I always you know, I would always pay myself and being a very good dad to this day, not as my favorite title is dad, and you know, it's the best thing I've ever experienced, but against when it came to being out the military running a business that I was really interested in, but then I realized that you got to make money. It was difficult to make money, certainly enough money pay the bills. My strategy wasn't that great. When I

came to building a business. There was a lot of fucking blind spots, a lot of bottlenecks. I was essentially the bottleneck of the business for a long time, and that pressure of the business then got quite stressful, and then I just obsessed about bodybuilding. Now, when I was obsessed about bodybuilding, like I did with everything else in my life, I fucking did really well. I won thing I want, most of the shows that I did. I was a very accomplished bodybuilder. I was very good at it.

But then at the same time, other things in my life were like fucking It was like it was like that seeing Dumb and Dumber when he's he looks over the thing and there's like fucking fireballs in the background. It was like a blaze of fire behind me because it was loads of other things that were

going wrong that I wasn't managing. Yeah, relationship, you know, family, family, life, money, you know, struggling financially because it was trying to spend too many plates because there wasn't very good at delegation, even though I've been in the military. When it came to running the business, I thought, who can I trust? You're going to trust the management to, Who're going to trust in my books where you look at my bank accounts by dealing with all this shit. So I was very I was very kind

of closed off to that possibility. So it's one of the old learning curves of life. You know. As time went on, I did learn how to do business better, but at the same time I found it really challenging. Yeah. So there was a lot of these things that were getting to me, and the only thing that really kept me attacked to something was the structure with body building. How did how did you? Eventually? It sounds like you ended up leaving that behind to some extent and going into human performance

coaching. Can you tell us all little bit about that and kind of where you're at today. Yeah, So when that happened, I had a realization as well, back in twenty fourteen. I always remember this, this one day that I had this realization that I just wasn't happy. I couldn't really work out. I knew things were I knew things weren't weren't great in some aspects of my life, but it was more from a personal fulfillment side of things. It was like, what am I doing? What is my purpose?

You know? You know that feeling you get where you think I'm not in the right fucking yeah, I'm not doing the right thing here. I don't know what I should be doing, but I just know that this isn't it. There's something else out there, and I don't know what it is yet. I don't know what I'm going to fall in love with doing.

So I felt a bit lost again. So I guess my self awareness for a period of time was not the best because I was just I was packing down all these emotions that were that were getting to me, and I was just I was just showing up every day and pretending everything's okay, and the whole body building fastad of you know, then social media comes along and you're just putting out shit that people want. People think you're having a great life.

But it was within me. I realized that this one day that I was walking along the along the road and I just stopped and I would stop. I'm really fucking unhappy. So I thought something has to change. But that continued as well for another couple of years until they eventually, you know,

the whole lockdown thing happened and all that. But there was a point in time actually that around the twenty fourteen period where there was a particular client who wasn't really getting the result that I wanted to get, and I couldn't understand why I wasn't following the plan or yes, And I realized that there was a gap. There was there was a blind spot. There was a real gap that I wasn't covering. That was I didn't understand people enough.

I didn't have the skills or the knowledge as well as much as I thought I was a people person, I didn't have the skill set or the inkland or the knowledge to delve in deeper to really help people at the at the psychological level. And I thought that this is the thing that's missing. Everyone's talking about what you should fucking eat, how you should train. This is all great stuff, but it's getting to the point where you can actually do

it. And this is what holds you back, even even though always you know, people I deal with now they know what they have to do. They know the fucking you know. They've got to go to the gym, they've got to work on their mindset, they've got to meditate, they've got to do all these things, but they don't do it, and they just think about it and then they don't do anything, and then you get overwhelmed and they procrastinating. And this is what I deal with in the daily basis

now. But at that point I didn't really understand it as much because I was always on the elklot. I was get on with it, you know, I was in the Special Forces. Stop fucking crying and get on with it. My approach to life was just stopping a little bit, expecially, And the reality is that it just doesn't work right. You know, you got you got to really get the best. You've got to know how to

get the best out of people. So there was a period of time there I became really interested in learning more about that, and I spent in the last ten years essentially, and that will be till the day I die, you know, I'll always be learning more. But I've been in this quest to you know, achieve my own level of self mastery, and I now sort of walk that path with others. So what I do now is a program for men who are essentially I've essentially got the same types of challenges I

had, and a variation of different challenges as well. So regardless of what it is in their life, you know, typically it's people who have achieved something, but there are things that aren't quite quite where they want it to be. So it's about turning that switch and getting them to go from the sixty percent that they're currently operating that to then being at like fucking ninety five

percent. You know, no one ever gets to one hundred, really, But it's about getting there their optimization with self from where they are to where they want to be and achieving the things in life that they really want to want to achieve. But it all comes down to stopping and you know, stop looking out there for all the stuff. You know, I say, there are things out there that will help you, but unless you stop and look in look inwards, you're never going to find what you fucking need because

the answers are actually all in there. They aren't out there. We just need to be showing how to bring it out. So I essentially help the guys unpack their best self, not find it out there. Because there's a certain amount of shit you've got to get done. You have to do the work, you have to do the rep you have to get get on with it. So why are why is not everyone doing that? If it's so simple, why does everyone not just get on with it, right. So

that's the that's the fucking keys is finding out what makes someone tack. Why are they not behaving a certain way? Why don't they do the things they promise themselves they're going to do. It's in line with their eigh your self,

with the person they want to be, you know. And I guess they've all got the same types of fears, you know, especially when you get to you know, forties fifties and then to start thinking they're going to die of fucking you know, an unaccomplished loser or someone who never never fulfill

their full potential. That scares people, especially as they get older. So I'm can the guy that, like the white guy, that gets him to bring out themselves and find what's fucking going on within there and then declus of the ship they've been built up over the last forty fifty years and then you know, you know, create a new self essentially. How was it for

you? Because you know, you mentioned I think something that a lot of military and particularly special operations folks talk about, which is when you leave, you go from doing this one hundred mile an hour job tip of the spear, you know, like the type of job that they make movies about, right doing every fantasy you ever had as a young boy, when you're playing with g. I. Joe, action figures or whatever, to civilian life where you don't have the purpose, you don't have the camaraderie, you don't

have the structure, and it's it's a huge jarring shift for a lot of for a lot of guys, for a lot of people. Yeah, for you. In addition to working on this business and learning how to you know, sort of hack the human brain and help these people achieve their you know, their their own sort of purpose and goals, how did you manage dealing with you know, your own issues with the camaraderie, with that sense of the supreme mission to you know, a personal mission. That's a good question

because this is exactly what I did with the Motor Warrior project. So what many community we need, We need light minded people in our lives, but at the same time we also need to we also need to be aware of the diversity of different people. So this is quite a recent thing for me. I had my ego was checked in quite recently. And what we can assume, you know that their gurus online that they're speaking all sorts of ship.

Every single day you look at your phone, Like, if you want to be a millionaire, you've got to hang around with fucking nine millionaires and you'll be the tenth one if you want to hang out with successful, if you want to be a successful people, you've got to hang around with just

successful people. So you know, you get these little carbon copies of each other in little groups, and they're all exactly the fucking same, which is really boring, right, But as soldiers were used to that, because we're all soldiers, we all come through the same fucking factory, we all go through the same training, we all end up like little carbon copies with variations of personalities, but we've all got the same core values. We're all on

the same mission. And then so that can that can kind of embed a belief that you have to be around just people who you like. So former soldiers will find former soldiers. So you get these veterans groups, and these are all fucking amazing things because it's good to rub shoulders of people who are

the same as you. But you should also venture out. I would actually encourage anyone who's watching us now to venture out and meet people and speak to people who are completely fucking different than you, because you learn more from them people because if you hand the ound people who are just like you all the time, you kind of look in the mirror for a point, so you don't learn as much. It's cool and all that, and it's good laugh.

But when you start to spend the time around people who are from completely different backgrounds that you would potentially be judgmental of because you don't know anything about them, go back to the quote about don't criticize, we don't understand. This is something I think is common in human nature. People standing in their little cliques and they don't venture outside those clicks because it's unsafe and it's the

unknown. But some of the most interesting conversations I've had recently were people that went in the army. They weren't ever soldiers, that weren't from my background.

They were totally different people. So as far as how I how I dealt with that, Yeah, I wanted to build a tribe of men because you can if you've got like a common ground with people who have who share the same challenges, you can use strategies that can then help more people because you can scale that as a business as well, and it also does build great community. But within my program, for example, people people people come

and apply and they say, is it just for ex soldiers? Is it just for people who are fucking you know, successful in business or something. I say, you don't know. It's for anybody that just has the desire to be better. That's all it is. It doesn't matter what you fucking do, where you're from, what your sexual orientation is, don't none of

that shit matter. It's like, if you're someone who is in a current place and you've got the desire to be someone else, and you think you need some help and you want some community and accountability, you're very welcome. You don't you don't have to be the perfect fit, and you don't want to have to be a businessman or fucking you know, into making more money, or you don't have to be an ex soldier. It's like it's a diverse community at the same time. The vault common common ground. But the

thing I found out is that human beings of common ground. Doesn't that just be you know, a bunch of men who would all want to fucking you know. People think sometimes that you know, what I do is about getting a bunch of men together go up the top of a mountain and beating our chest. Right, It's really not about that. You know, where are Where can people go to find you and find your find your coaching if they wanted to work with you. So I'm actually having a few things about the

moment website being one of them. But I get most of my leads through my social media, so Instagram and Facebook. I'm also on LinkedIn as well, but I mean I'm just tapping into that now. But we will most the description of this podcast also for people who are most most of my most of my links or my leads come through Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, sogram And do you know what the what the u r L for your website will be because people might be listening to this. Yeah, it will be the

Modern Warrior Project DOTA. Okay. Also, I saw on your link tree that your Instagram isn't third. Do you want to shout out your Instagram too? Oh? So the instagram is the Lindsay Brust or pH Lindsay Bose. Okay, maybe it is there and I didn't see it, but do you we have questions for Lindsay. Let me see if we have any questions. I didn't. I don't recall sing any pop up. Okay, well, Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. Do you want to hit

him up? D now? Thank you for joining us, Lindsay, because I know it's getting laid over there, and we will we may have a few viewer questions and then we'll we'll head out. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, nothing like Okay, yeah, what what do you got? D? Okay from Sean? Thanks Sean? Can say S do radio slash radar direction finding? If so, how did they learn slash teach it? And what does what do UK s have support elements bring to the table in modern operations?

A little bit about that. I want to say I'm the wrong guy to answer that question. It's just I would be making a bad, a bad answer that it would take me a bit of time to think back to when I was actually in. Things will have changed since I was in. As far as the reserves go, from what I can gather, you know, then they're very very rarely went on operations, but this it did happen, but very rarely. As far as the radar question, I've got no

fucking clue. Wrong guy, wrong questions? Is there is there any strong like post s a s SBS community, Special Forces community or our guys just kind of spread out through the UK. So yeah, they are spread I mean you get like the Special Portions Club in London, but I mean a lot of these things were really the old and bold guys would still you know,

gather in certain spots. So there's there's places in Hereford, for example, but some of the older guys, like I'm talking late that the guys who are now you know, the seventies maybe eighties that will still meet for a coffee morning in a social club or something like that. But like these days, like from my from my, from my sort of era, you know, there are WhatsApp groups and stuff, but we don't really have a

regular thing. Everyone's spread out and everyone's doing their own things. So it's something that's kind of you know, you keep in touch with who you want to keep in touch with. That's what I do. You know, I've got a few guys who I really could in touch with on a regular basis, and we do make a point in these days of saying let's make this

a thing. Let's let's do this once a month and meet for lunch or whether it is so yeah, but there's not there's not really that much of a strong I mean, we do have like reunions and stuff, but that's usually every several years. Yeah, and you always see familiar faces of those and there's are great events because you see lots of people in one in one goot. But apart from that, now, I mean I see people around all the time because I live in Hereford still, so I still see a

all my old mates. Yeah. So yeah, you still see a lot of familiar faces. That's cool. Was there another question? Okay, and one final question. As a boat team guy on the sees, you can definitive, definitively answer the question what color is the boat house at Hereford? Trick question? Do you know what the chickens in the question? No, there's no boat house is Hereford. There's little bullhosts. Because we're not in the we're not we're in the Midlands, so we're inland. Awesome, so

guys, awesome. Next uh, actually coming up on Monday, we got a doubleheader for you guys. We're going to have two Special Forces guys on the show, one at five pm and then the next at eight pm. Jay third Group guy and Dan a fifth group guy. Both are Rack Afghanistan veterans, so Monday is going to be a busy day for us. Lindsey, thank you so much for coming on the show Man and and staying with

us at this late hour in your time zone. One more time. If people want to find you on social media, yeah, so the Lindsay Bruce is my Instagram and just my name Lindsay Bruce on Facebook. You know, pretty easy you find a think on there, so quite distinctive pictures and whatnot. So yeah, and the programs Warrior Project by through any of these mediums you know, LinkedIn Facebook, Instagram, on the website, there will be

live soon which will be the Modern Warrior Project dot com. Awesome. Uh And just for people listening and not looking, you'll probably see it on the headline, but it's l I N D s A Y Bruce if you're looking for it, if you're looking for him on Instagram, I think that's the show Lindsay. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Absolute pleasure to be here, guys. Thanks, yeah, having absolutely appreciate we welcome back anytime. Man. Thank you, and we love your past like your your

your place gives off such an awesome vibe. It looks like that's a hul place to hang on. It's pretty cool with it. Yeah. I love it here. Yeah, been here about a year now. It does feel it cool. Get a tent on the backdrop. Well done? All right, all right everyone, We will see you guys on Monday.