Hawk Recon Team in Vietnam | William "Doc" Osgood | Ep. 236

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House with your hopes. Jack Durphy, David Park, Hey, everybody, Welcome to The Team House, Episode two, one hundred and thirty six. I'm Dave Park with my cost Jack Murphy. Tonight or a guest is William doc osgood member of one of the Hawk recon teams in Vietnam, Actually quite a history. Doc has written this book. Unfortunately, I take the dust covers off them when I read them, and I forgot to bring it. But he wrote this book, Hawk Recon, which is a fantastic book.

I mean it's really kind of the day by day, not even a day by day, but it's vignettes of what life was like for you and others in Vietnam. So, Doc, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We deeply appreciate it. Yeah, pleasure to be here. Oh let's see, yeah, it was, it was. It was in the Hawk Recon, the only Hawk Recons. There was only one. Uh, there was Tiger Force and a lot of battalions had a Italian Recon and uh, yeah, so there's only one. They were there for the whole war.

And there were some really tough individuals in and out, rangers, green berets, saw guys, what whatever they had them all there a bunch of drafty, drafted legs. You know, it was interesting. Crew. So let's ask you about your origin story. What you know, what was it? Obviously the draft was on you know, it was nineteen sixty seven, sixty eight. Uh, you know Vietnam. We had been there so around nineteen sixty five and force. What was it in your upbringing or what led you

to the military. Oh, yeah, it was sixty seven. I joined in six sixty seven. No, I wanted to be a soldier all my life. That was my thing. I don't know, we're in Norwegians or something. We're biking it or I don't know. Anyway, Yeah, it was when I trained for when I was I don't know, probably a toddler. I worked on it, played it. It was what I was gonna do, and I was. And then I wanted to be a marine. And then I saw the Green Berets, and then so you had to join

to be a Green Bret. And when I got in base camp, within about four days, I knew I wanted to be a ci age and two of all the things that James Bond was going on, you know, the young goofy kid, you know, in to two or four four days and basically I do I wouldn't do any of that stuff. I didn't want to do anything. So I would say I would continue, I would continue, I'd go airborne, I'd go with special houses. But that, you know, that was I'd be. Uh. I wish I'd been drafted at that

time, and I just I just go do my three years. That's fine. Yeah. So, you know, and one of the things you talk about in your book is not only your story, but you tell the story of some of other people and you also give you know, kind of an interesting history of the layout of you know, from nineteen six five, the first Brigade of one hundred and first going into Vietnam, and you know the story that follows then and you know, Westmoreland and kind of forming the reconnaissance

teams and then how that fanned out. Right, Yeah, I've lost complete video or here for some reason, but I can talk away her. Yeah we can. We can s Yeah, we can see you. Fine, we can see you and hear you. Okay, all right, okay, what's the question again of history of Yeah, so can you give us a little background because we don't talk about this often on the show, but the background of conventional forces going into Vietnam, of Westmoreland, of the hundred and

first being there, things like that you mentioned in your book. Yeah, I don't know anything about that. I was just I was just there for the adventure and the thrilling and all. Yeah, it was the first Brigade one hundred or first. Are they were there for the whole war. Just about they were there before the first cavalry wherever got there at Cowboys. You know, they they protected the first caval when they flew in off the boat.

So it was the first brigade that was there was three two other brigades, so just the first brigade there in the early part, and about the time I showed up, they all came over. So there were three brigades in there. And we called him waste more Land. I don't know what. I don't know when he was in and out. I don't know when he left exactly. I don't care he so, but yeah, so we were all up there eventually up to camp at Camp Eagle. But what's funny

was I was supposed to be in Green Bray School. In fact, all my buddies and we've gone through jump school from after medic school. We were and we were accepted in the Green Brays. We were jumping there at Brag we were training and somehow I knew it was because I'm almost positive is because we had a critical MOS which is medic combat medic, and we were like gold bricks. We were like, you know, they dealt they dealt us like diamonds and ruff or whatever. We were valuable for some reason, and

I think it was My commander was Charlie Beckwith. We talked about special Ops as the King's Special Ops Charger. We called him Charger. I'm pretty sure after Tick, a lot of medics were dead and he needed medics. He became an infantry commander, his paratrooper, but a battalion of regular infantry tally and the second two two seven, And I think what he did was he needed medics and he's going to get him. He knew where to get medics,

and he knew hi about Special Forces school. I mean he was a commander there at one time, and he knew he I hearad he traded a came forty seven's first pick of truth. But he was he was dealing. So one day they marched us down to the dispensary at the center, you know, at Brad, and they say, you can't read the light chart up there without your glasses. You're going to all tomorrow. I'll thanks a

lot, Thanks a lot. I tried to put some guys context into my eyes, but that didn't that didn't work, so so we ended up in all but the funny thing is, ah, this just kills me. We got the camera on bay and like good little boy scouts, we turned our orders and we had our orders, or we hand carried him. The next morning, I see, oh, there's a green beret office right in the back. So I go in here by myself. All my buddies are outside. I say, hey, we've got four medics from from the center here.

Can we get in? Can we get him? Look up with you? And they say, hell, yeah, there's your sugar kid. Yeah, where's your order? Well we'll set you right up. Where's your order? Okay? So just then I swear at that moment I hear the speaker was speaker in the background. Oh it was good. Marie's back one hundred first Airborn. So back on the bust of one hundred first Airborne. They put us in the They put us in third brigade. Miss Charlie's book talent

we had in the third brigade. We're rock as sids. All right, well yeah whatever, I don't like this, but we'll do it in third brigade. I was put in Company D third of the one eighty seven, just in time to go up to Hamburger Hill. Company D third one. I said. It was the first one on Hamburger Hill and they took the biggest beating up there. This was the following year, but we still had time. We would have been I would have been there no matter what.

And so we got out there and we were getting chopped up with booby traps every day. Is horrible, the most worst thing I've ever seen in the whole time. And then about five days of that, I said, get on the chopper, get out on, Get on you lucky. So a little bit, get on, You're going back to the rear. Okay, no problem, go back to the rear, going up to the Charlie Beckman's battalion now. And that's that's what I think happened. So we ended up

there, spent the time, our time with him. Let's let's that's what I know about third Brigade and second Brigade and first brigade. What was was Charlie running Project Delta at that point, Delda, I think that project that

was beck was invention, I believe, And that was earlier. Okay, gotcha, and you had uh you mentioned that like there were four sth metics right for seth metics that basically got pulled out of SF training and and sent over because there was a critical shortage of of medics on the ground of combat medics. Yeah, that's my theory. Then, that's that was my theory that Charlie Beck was doing. It destroyed my career militaryman more or less,

and got her shipped up there. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Now. You know you talk about booby traps. You mentioned your book when you first link up with uh, the rock assans that when you landed, you know they were there waiting for you. You went out and as soon as you guys started moving out, you almost fell in a pungee pit, right right, I said, within within Uh, I just met them, the head medic just a couple of weeks ago in San Antonio.

The meeting the head guy, I reported to he almost fainted that somebody had actually sent him another medic and I just met at him. But anyway, so he says, yeah, go over there and do what a medic does. There was another medic over there. You just follow him. And this is in four minutes, five minutes, I'm I'm shaking hands with the lieutenant. About ten minutes a booby trap goes off in the hedgerow nearby, and the lieutenant says, get your sho move out. We're moving out. We're

going through the hedgerow. And there was a pungee I looked down there. The thing was made like aliens had made. It was perfectly plumb, square and appeared to go into the directly to Hell. I mean it was. It was deep. Put it that way. Oh, that was the tunnel,

and right next to it was some pungee sticks. Yeah. So I remember in your book, like you wrote that you almost step in this pungee pit and then to avoid that, like you kind of throw yourself back and all of a sudden, like you almost throw yourself into this like chasm into the middle of the earth. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. And some of the guys are there. The first time they called me dark, he said. He and Latin I said, hey, Dark, watch it

Dark, watch it dark, Hey Dark, look at this. They were helping me. So it was good. So so so was was Charlie Beckwith's unit. Was that the third of the one seventh or three seven? He he said, I don't know what General zais or the other general said, well, what battime do you want? Charlie? And he said the worst one. So he got you got the second three to seven, the nose Slack battalion, the one that took the German surrender offer, and bast On

that one. He got that one. So that was his Yeah, So then what was it like integrating with this unit, Like you're this fresh faced young kid, you know, I mean you're a medic and you you encountered a lot of a lot of things, uh in Vietnam that like you're the combat medic course didn't necessarily prepare you for correct, correct? Yeah, Well, those first few days of the rockets on was was pure hell, pure hell. You're talking about terror or war and terror. Yeah, we were

dishing out terror and we were getting terrorized. I mean, my my brain and soul and are was terrorized walking through booby traps. I mean their psychological weapon. That's a terrorist weapon. And we were getting blown away by booby traps every day. I mean people would just be split down the middle like a trout laying there. Now. Yeah, so those are the easy ones. Yeah, and so can you tell us a little bit like some of the you know, some of your first experiences with you know, with this

unit that you're in. Now, Okay, it was only even the rock assigns those few days, and it was just a lot of booby traps and yeah. And then when we were up up north, they moved us up north Beckmilts. But time was up at Camp Eagle by way. Do you want do you want me to uh jump up there? Yeah? Okay, So somehow we got up there. It seemed like we we went to every little airport in the country and we got up there and they put us in this insane mad house battalion. All right, it was just pure chaos.

First of all, we had brand new M sixteens. They took those away because you know, he he wanted he wanted those for inspection for his uh his armed room, and gave us some clokers. Then, uh, we had a black first black patos, aren't He lightened us from our wallets for a slush fear fund that we never got. And then they said we'll go sleep over there. And it's tenant and we're sleeping intense at that time, with some sandbags around to protect us from the rockets that would come in once

in a while, and a lot of the sandbags are falling down. They're just choke full of people smoking weed. Listening to rock music, guns hand garnaids laying everywhere, naked men, you know, dirty clothes all over the plate. Welcome to the war. Sounds like burning Man. Sounds like what like burning Man? Like like a big like just psychedelic festival. Yeah, like I clicked. Just see, I got the camp. I don't want any control. Its uh, here we go. Can you hear me?

Still? Yeah? You got you? Okay, good, I'm back in. Uh yeah, well I'm probably gonna cut us off here, but please don't. Yeah, I can't see that. It's no fun, can't. That's probably down the lower left, there's the little video will come up. You can see, I know, but I'm off the screen completely. I'm mm hmmmm. Well let's uh, let's let's let's try to continue. We can, we can see you just fine. I fixed it. I fixed it. I mean drive me crazy. I mean all these computers drive me

crazy. I need a big, fat, solid twenty seven inchs all right, let's okay. So when so you mentioned Hawk Recon, like the Hawk Recon, and you know, and and a lot of these units like you said you had Tiger Force, you had Recondos. These these units were starting to put together. They realize that they needed these reconnaissance elements, and so these reconnaissance Can you tell us how they came on? How Hawk recon or any of the reconnaissance sort of came up on your radar initially? Well,

Gary Leonard and all a lot of stuff. Really good he does. He talks him up. He talks pretty good about him, except that the interview with you, he made a little joke I didn't appreciate, but we always argue about about it. That's funny. Yeah, he explains that that was probably Hackworth's idea. I think Hackworth was in one of the He was in one of the battalions of one hundred first, one hundred first was there from

a gip go, so he's I think he might have invented it. He said, we're gonna out recon We are gonna we're gonna have a griller, the grillers. So battalions need these, uh need a recon element. So it started early, I think, Well, eventually there was ten battalions, was ten battalions in the division, and each one had a recon element, and they were there pretty early, and they were there in the last and so Hawk recon was that the recon element that was associated with the battalion that

you were in at the time, right, Yes, it was. That was like Charlie Beck was baby to speak. And was that something that because you were a medic and there was a critical shortage of medics, did they assign you to that or did you choose to go to that? Now, I couldn't get in it. I was in a company for a long time trying to get out of there, blundering around in a Shaw valley with a blind company. It was. Now. I tried to get in right away and it was laughed at me. But eventually, yeah, I got in.

So that's what happened. Why did they laugh at you initially? Oh? Well, one guy at that same that same Black platoon, sergeant mhmm. I think I told him I wanted in the arks and you just and walked away, and I can remember. Yeah, So anyway, I don't I don't think it had it. He had a shortage of medics, I think, right, he didn't care where they were, right, So he wasn't in Hawk recon. He wasn't in the Hawks. He just he basically was one of the line platoon guys and or the line line company and was

like, no, like we don't have enough metics. You can't go anywhere. I can't go anywhere. Oh the platoons are yeah, the platoon start. Yeah, he's just lazy. He didn't want to do to switch of paperwork or anything or or I'm sure that's what that's all it was. He might not have been the right guy to ass I don't really know if he

was the top dog of the platoon, the medical platoon or not. So how did you eventually how did you finally get into a hawk recon Well, we've been in the our show Valley and then we went down in the Lowlands and we we're down there and I just went up to the to us the real Patuons Argins or the new Patuons are. At least I knew he was the Patunons sargeant. I said, well, I didn't in the box. He said, okay, pack your stuff and and so then like, how

how were you introduced to them? You show you didn't you just show up at at there like little sections say hey, I'm here Now. Did they put you through any kind of selection or anything like that? Uh? No, No, And uh I think it was volunteer. You know, there's no you didn't have to pacity tests. You didn't have to get two kids

from two guys there, And maybe it's sometimes you did. I knew a bunch of them because they the platoon leader and a bunch of them had been in company, my company, my first company, and they got in there left me behind, so I knew them. And my first meeting with them, we were down a fire based tomahawk. I asked the pat my patunon leader. I wanted and Arty, okay, give go go down or they're right down there in the flat. So I think they must have driven me

down on a truck. They're sitting down in the middle of a dry rice patter in the middle of old and they open and every anybody in the world knows where they are and see them. And I just walked in there, and I remember the medic my guy was replacing. He turns around it and walked rapidly to his escort over to the truck. He was happy to leave. And yeah, so that's how and I knew, Oh, I knew a bunch of the guys. I didn't know the petuniliar, but I knew

him already, so it was cool. And so how was hawk recon set up? Like how many guys was the the entire team? Like what size elements did you guys go out in? It? Varied? I mean, you know, like an infantry company they've got they'd send a little recon teams and five guys out sometimes. But the petun it was a patoon. It was I would call it a heavy recons, a heavy team. You know.

We had a couple of him sixties and it had it had any fluctuator like twenty, it could have less than twenty or more than twenty guys. And we usually stayed together like that. And Leander says, you're not you guys were lerps. You send me you think your lers. I don't think we were lers. You guys were sir short range, you know. But we stayed We stayed closer to a friendly unit, our own own line companies. We were sort of close to them, but as far as range range

can be in time also we stayed out. We stayed out on missions, forty day missions like like beck was thing was his thing was Merrill's Marauders. Merrill's Marauders. They never stopped. They you know, went halfway to China and then over you know how they did it. They went for months and months and months, never went to the rear. Well, Fox, we pulled over forty day missions. It was unheard of. Saw I never did that, Lurps never did that, nobody did. And there was some hairy

missions that way. Yeah, yeah, that that was one of the things is even if you guys weren't doing these long range patrol, you were outside the range of like friendly like friendly lines, and you were out there for a very long time, right yeah, yeah, And uh, crazy things happened before before I got there. The Hawks were out there, their backlists

was was charging through the highway. They were into the into the ash Shaw at fight four seven and oh the Hawks hawks somebody they hit a tank, one of our tanks, and I think they wanted to kill everybody in the tank, and so the Hawks launched. I wasn't. I wasn't just that before I got there, and they went out and they found a tell phone work heavy duty one mounted on insulators, personal insulators, the heavy duty thing. You know, they followed it and they're out there forty days and hadn't

found it at the end of video, and they were pissed. They're highly pissed. So the last night they set up and these guys didn't give it. Damn. They they cooked, you know, they cooked. They were suicidal, but they would cook, make coffee, dinner, and breakfast. So the next morning they get up, they make their coffee and they get up and this is from my buddy Rick explaining it was the head rto. He gets on the horn and they clean up allered gear there, they pick

up aller crap, their litter. He gets on here and he calls back up to becklass or to the fire control or somewhere, and he says, Romeo elements moving. So they move out in the line line formation. They hadn't go on fifty feet and Rick Cy's two NBA flow uniform jumping down into a pit with an a on any aircraft gun, some some heavy heavy. My shoot, I don't know what size gun it was. And he can't shoot because the every the point and slack or in front of him, and

the slack appointment is like twenty feet away. And suddenly suddenly he's ten feet away from these two NBA and Rick noticed the shit's gonna hit the fan in any second. He sits down behind a tree, and before anything happens, he calls Beckman says, Romeos in contact a point man. I got their

names, it's in the book. He walks, Appointment, takes on a stance like Frankenstein, starts walking like Frankenstein, goes right up these two guys and shoots both of them dead, and then the ship hits the fans. So they're fighting like all day. They run the NBA of seventy or so in this base camp where they slept right next to him, right next to him, neither neither bound, neither heard the other, and they finally ran

them out. They called in jets and artillery and killed one of the hawks and killed about they got fourteen eleven bodies NBA bodied, and it was called a bell at a hawk killed. That's right in the Alshow that's typical ail show off. Then now, what are you drinking there? What are we drinking? I'm drinking horse horse soldier and Jack is drinking a few straight rye whiskey. First, sound like, oh, that was us too, you know, by the way, I wrote a whole chapter about comparing us to

customer. Yeah, it was incredible because they changed the one hundred and first two hundred first Airborne air Cavalry that summer, that that moment when I was in there, when we first went into the Ashville. We were at Calvary and we mimic we mimic Custer's battle exactly exactly except for the wiping out part. Right. One of the companies, one of the companies did give what Hey, everybody, uh, please join our patron uh patron dot com the

team House. You'll get exclusive content. Uh yeah, liking the suscribe to the channel. Yeah, you and our friends at Costa Carribo awesome cigars. Hope you guys will check them out Costa Carribo dot com. You like. One of the things you mentioned was even though the hundred first was sort of an airborne unit, you got a ton of ship for wearing your airborne wings

when you were in this so called airborne unit. Yeah. Yeah, I noticed women went through pea training called Petrain in the first in country and get go to a few classes. You know, I should have forgot all the class. I should have gone over to the alerts right then. They had an office down there, and you know, we're screwing around. There were so many legs. What are you drinking there, William? Is that is that the belvity? This this is a green spot single pop still Irish voice,

all right, let's do it and so serious. I don't drink anymore. Yeah, I don't drink. I gave it all. I drinking Christmas maybe Thanksgiving, maybe Halloween party a special Canons and friends. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, we we are honored that you consider us friends and this is a special occasion. It's like Christmas come early. What I do like about zoom friends like Gary Lender. Gary Lender's my best friend, my best friend. I've never met him. It's a wild man. I've worked with

him for years. We were an eagle at the same time. Our children are the same times. They're everything he saw. I was there two I mean I was within ten twenty miles. Yeah. One of the you you interviewed are you talked to a lot of different people, a lot of different guys for this book, didn't you? Because they're like I said, there's not only your stories, but there are other people's stories. There are stories about the unit before you got there that other guys have passed on to you.

It's it's really an amazing like some of the chapters are one page, but it's there, and they're almost like very interesting anecdotes, you know, and about the simple pleasures of a soldier, like getting ice, right, getting ice? Oh god? Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of work winning This is over nineteen. It's a fifty year of work. Yeah, fifty years I've been you know. I took time off to be a bush pub in Alaska, Smogo Electronics in New Mexico and stuff like that.

But all that time I was still calling guys, writing letters and collecting photographs. So I got Yeah, it's a lot of thought went into a lot of work. It's it's I've never seen a book that as you look through the pictures, you see the maps where we w in the Ashaw. There's no landmarks in there. There's no there's a there's a river, but there's no landmarks. But you can still follow us along where we went because I had a secret way of finding out where we were in the forest mountains.

But you can identify the characters, all the characters, all the names. You recognize their name, you recognize their picture, you recognize the landmarks in the photos. They match the map, the landmarks in the map. Everything matches I've never seen that in the look at all. If you look through

there, it ties it all in. Yeah, I mean there are you know, eight to ten like back in front pages of just these amazing photos like this incredible history that, like you say, hasn't really been captured in a lot of other places. Yeah, yeah, I don't. So it's I mean, I mean you look in the back and one of the back pictures I call it anatomy of an ambush. There was an ambush I blew. Right next to it was the map. You can go there today.

It's right by Highway one. You can take a bus and take your kids and if you take a school class from the local schools. Oh yeah, that's what we did. No, you don't want to do that, I don't think. But you walk over from Highway one into that spot by using the map. And there's my picture the night before in the morning after this blew this ambush, and there's the results. There's a picture and it's one pictures facing north. You see the south China. See the other pictures facing

south, you see the slow in the mountains. Are quite evident. They match the photos, they match the map. Yeah, can you can you tell us about that ambush. Sure, And what's funny about that? When I was in company, Hey, we were in those mountains above the slough in the South China Sea. We're up in the mountains. There a whole company of clumping along like idiots, you know, that's what I say, and getting people. And we were up there. So we get up early

in the morning. And I'm not a realer even then. I was the last one up. But I get up and you look at the map. I see I drew the picture where it was. I looked down on the on that spit. There's a lot like a peninsula of sand goes right over to the mountains. But there's a there's like a river right there where it hits the ocean. You'd have to wait across, maybe swim. I looked down there, and I see a whole NVA weapons put too, walking along.

We got helmets, rpds eight k's. We're just walking along slowly right in front of us. It's still I mean, it's a quarter mile away. Maybe you know it's a long shot right there. I run over to the potentis are the damn But he runs over to the captain. The captain, Oh, it was embarrassing because I don't know if they had an FO I don't I don't know if they hadn't. They were they were basically trapped in front of us, and he's he yells at the gunner the M sixty

gunners shoot, shoot, keep your heads down. But both M sixty jam So they started running, of course, and they ran away. They just ran up that spit to the north. Embarrassing to say to the least. You know, I doubt he had an FO pre plot the gun until we were right there, only a couple of miles away. You know, he could have called for any birds and Eric come, I could he. All he had to say was on, get on the radio and say far for effect on the coast, just do Nora or whatever, and he would have

had him traveled. But anyway, they got away. So the next year, maybe maybe my eye bought on my spotting them did some good. Some clerk noted that and they said, well, see that looks like a high speed trail. Let's put the hawks in there. So we're down there at the very spot they were. Were we Hey, I spotted him. We were there, and guess what you see in the pictures. The bullets start flying in. Somebody's shooting at us now from the same Oh my god,

that's in the afternoon. Unbelievable. And so we stayed there. The lieutenant just he he sent out, he sent out on all the teams. They're on five man teams, all spread around, and we were. We stayed right there, right there, and the little a few little pine trees.

It for cover. And I'm gonna spend the night there. So it puts out a color if somebody puts out a Claymore and they take particular interest to where this clay more is for some reason, and I bring the claqueer the wire back and ah, so it's pitch dark now, and yeah, so it's just like five or six of us there, the two kid cars in discots and everybody is asleep. It's my my, my watch. You know. That's why John Wayne and he always said, all right, Pilgrims,

I'll take it. I'll take the first watch. The asshole. I don't know what you know. To take the first watch, you can go to sleep. You don't have to worry about the rest of the night. Right, first and last watches are the best. Yeah, me, I had to get up two in the morning to do my watch, and then I had to and then I go to sleep, and then I got to get up again on the morning. Okay, so I'm on watch. It's about

my two o'clock watch. I got the radio. They're hissing away. I got on my little my forty five, my m sixteen grad ads on my buck night. So I know it was a high speed I guess I knew it was a high speed trail obviously. And I didn't tell anybody. I don't think I tell the lieutenant no. And I didn't wake anybody up. So I see, I see movement, not a corner of my eyes. Somebody's coming down the beach. Oh shit, And I don't I didn't wake

anybody up to kick carsons or nothing. I said, I'm nobody's gonna screw this up this time. Nobody's gonna screw it up. So they gotta walks right in frontally play more or where I thought the claimer was. I wasn't sure. Now I had to duck down behind my bag on the blast and this is he did. He walked why in front of me? The cloud completely covers the moon instantly like that. It's blocking it's the inside of a

dead water buffo. I just I couldn't see anything. So I detonate on a on a guess time distance problem my deadonate and then I see something moved to the left. I throw a grenade down there, so and and it it gets kind of comical. Some more lieutenant lieutenants over by me. Well, immediately over there, Doc, what's going on? What happened? I said, there was a good or left to right coming down to beat what kid? Well, he gets up and he's looking all around. We were

kind of looking around with dark We didn't want to walk. He takes out a popular. It's like a little mortar. You know, it's got a top. Put the top on the bottom. You hit it with your palm. Parachute, rocket comes out. She goes up five hundred feet and you've got a flare all or something up there. Let's the whole world know where we are. There's I don't think there was a day we weren't surrounded. I'm on my tour. We're surrounded somewhere. So here's his popular. Still

can't see anything? I think will he disintegrated and all hit him with a claymar so I said, screw it. I'm going back to sleep. Did you're somebody else's walked buck this shit? I wake up in the morning, excuse them in front. I don't use the effort. Sorry the morning again. Up in the morning and look down the beach a little ways and there's a lieutenant standing over an NBA soldier with a yeah the tenor good he's got an a K forty seven for me? Well that was not yeah, but

there was uh like that. He was like a courier, right, he had some documents. It was it was kind of a big yeah, yeah, yeah, a bag o stuff. He had some other stuff. But I'm not there's one of my favorite moments. But uh, you know, shit happens again. I said, what's what's great about your book is one all the different you know people because you you do you like, there are so many people mentioned in this book that you know either aren't with us anymore

or you know, I haven't had their stories told. And you tell a lot of people's stories. But also just like I said, just the daily like what a soldier, like like I said, getting ice, or I want to ask you about the bee incident? What the bee? The bees? Oh yeah, see that my books got stories like like that, and you never see there's no cliches, there's no disrespecting civilians. And I never saw that, and I mean there was a horrible accident. I think it

was an accident. There's no you know, like Oliver Stone's movie, you know, shooting shooting at you. There's none of that. I didn't see it, and there's no cliches, you know. And so yeah, I guess stories like the trees try to kill us one right, the trees are defour forrested, defoliated forrests, try to kill us. Big called the wind came up and all the branches started breaking up and we couldn't go anywhere we're gonna go, and one hundred acres of trees and you know, hurricane and

they're all deciding to fall apark. That was bad. And the other stories of the bees. We ran into bees twice. I ran into which one you want to me? Me taking the dump of the bees or the time they walked our hoop? But the hawks of and tell us both of them because they're both great stories. Yeah, okay, the one with I was still an a company. So we're sitting up there in the ten as a Shaw Valley. I gotta tell you the story about Custers last name, and

it's just incredible. We were subject to Custers last time we were surrounded. We were surrounded every day we were in the air show, and they had better guns. They had better guns, just like Custer. Custer had the single shops, civil war antiques. The Indians, some of them they've traded, went to town, bought themselves, Winchesters or Henry Rightle say, Henry's designed for sixteen rounds. They had one round. Wow, we put eighteen

rounds in our twenty round clips because we were told to. Well, Charlie, Sir Charles, I call him quite a bit. He had a thirty round and eight King forty seven. You know, there's so many similarity as a Custer, it's just unreal. Beck With as a Custo clone. Straight up. Custer like to show off his his blond hair, and beck With the like to show off his scar, his abdomen scar, huge scar, you know. Anyway, but when we were I was with the A company.

They're surrounded and I had to go take a dump. So I go down to the I go down a little ways outside the perimeter and I find his big were ravene. I said, well, it sounds looks good. I dropped my drawers and I put my hand up to hold onto the street and hang out over the ravine. And about that time I noticed my hand was was in the opening of a murder? Was the murder was? Because

I know now what a murder was. Looks like they're invading Hawaii. But big orange scary and they noticed right away something was wrong, so they ended up. You know, I did the boy scout trick. I froze. I want to scare him attack her. The yellow jackets in California would, but these guys were much nicer. They just flew all around, and eventually I had up on each cheek and one of my nose. They're just walking

around. I'm frozen. One watched down in my mouth and tries to get in my mouth, and then some are flying around, hovering in my face. I just freaked out. I didn't enough of this. I just you, bastard, just get away from me. I just left the other tree. I fell back. My mm sixteenth is going bam bam, big bam down into the raffine. I falling about right bard it. I kill every one of you. I kill everyone, and I kill your eggs, your pupil or your larger, your adults, your workers, and you're clean.

I'm gonna kill her or last so many. But they didn't stay in and then went time. We were in the hawks. We got hit by little bees, little little like bumble bees, and they did a job on if. They stung everyone pick They stung everyone except the guys who the guys who ran, I said, don't run, freeze. The old boys got technic. They I got stung so bad I was laying down. They were in my mouth again, in my mouth, stinging my tongue, my lips and my eyes, and and finally lay they said, okay, that's enough,

you learn your lesson. They left. I know about well. I felt really sick. You know. Somebody had to carry my bruck up the hill, up this hill we're going up, and I got We got up to this little hill and I got up there and went I went blind. I went start screaming blind. I could not completely blind. I couldn't see anything. I told me I had a junior medic. I had a system medically man. I said, shoot, my take that the syringe and sticking right

in my heart. Stick it right in through my chest, in my heart inject this uh epieu for go, I think it was, which I didn't want to do. And then in a few minutes, ten minutes, gray came gray, and then the co work came back. So you started going into anaplactic shock and he had to hit you with the eppie. What's up? You started like going to anaplactic shock and he had to hit you with the eppie. I just wanted to I didn't want to go determinently blind.

Yeah, I felt I was okay. I just couldn't see. Yeah, well I figured out what help when when the first guy started getting hit with the bees? Did you guys think it was an ambush? That it was like a claymore like like that had to be had been terrifying and those like jungle conditions. Yeah, it was the way I just scribed it in the book. And I got third fourth parties on this. On this episode,

I believe Tick and Culver were on point. They were a team. They were going up the hill and Culver is the is is slack man, Ticks and pretty new guy. He's in front with the with the grenade launcher, but I think he had a shotgun around in anyway. Calver turns around, looks back where they told me, and tick Tick looks up the trail and he sees a bunch of of Oriental dudes with guns coming down the trail and he goes arms arms, you know, Republicans our ally, I supposed it.

Colver spins around and oh and they all realize their mistake and take fires a big explosive and nig was sailing up right towards one guy is gonna hit him right in the teeth, but it just skimmed by, just missed him. They all turned rand and brawn. They're all gone. And I know that was it. That was only the shot fired. And we think maybe that they had a bag of the horns and was and they threw it ahead

of him. But I'm a kimp swear to. So while you were with Hawk Creek and you also got flight qualified, right, oh yeah, yeah, that was funny. I got yeah, I was getting short and you could extend it was great. Yeah, the army gave you a good deal. You could do all kinds of things. You could stimm for lurbs. I was invited in the Gary's Company, by the way, by some of

the old hawks. I went over there and for a sergeant. I talked with resurgeon and looked around, and you could extend for all kinds of things. Because I was a medic, so I was qualified to fly on mettervac and I could have got backing forces too, like right now. I mean they were right down there and flew by control coming on North was right there and could at supposed we ended up on so teams. But yeah, I went for the air ambulance and after a little finagling, I got on that

and flew quite a few missions. I flew I don't know, fifteen twenty missions. Him. Yeah, and I had to lie. What did you have to lie about? I had to lie? Well, it was funny. I flucked hearing, you know, I still kept bad here, you know, the clay Wars and law in training and blew my ears out of that. I couldn't pass the physical hearing tests and the flight surgeon some doctors as well. True, today's your lucky day. You just flunked your flight.

He said, what you want to do? This you want to do They just shot a medic the other day right through his his chest protector. I said, yeah. He says, well, if you do. If you don't care, I guess nobody does either. Go take it again. Took it to take the physical again. So I passed it. So I got in and I flew with him. And what was that process like, like, you know, being on metavacs, being on kasovacs. Mhmm, yeah, that was that was a serious project. You flew. I flew

with another medic. So there's five of us in there. Eagles dust off. They had no M sixties, you know, just had litters aid bag. You had a litter hoist and you had a jungle penetrator and and I was with worked with the medic. We went out, We went up big back let's see Hamburger. It was over. But we flew around that same area back in the ash on malacious missions flying it. We flew into the trees, flew into trees. The hoist wouldn't hit the ground, and there

was no place to land. And you're talking about a thirty forty degrees slope with one hundred and fifty foot trees on it, and there's a budget dead and dying here. What do you do? So these guys pilots, the good pilots, would fly into the trees. They find out an opening in the under the leaves and branches and dodge everything. And I see the cook Clid writing little notes on the right on the windshow with a grease pencil. It looked like turn right, big snag proceeed one hundred feet, turn left

a defoliated area. They could have turned the right and stuff like to get out. It was like cave diving. It was kind of spooky. Yeah, and you guys, like you know, the Kazovacs took a ton of fire generally when they were because you it wasn't you guys weren't waiting until the action was over a lot of times, like you were going in while the firefight was still going on. Yeah, yeah, sometimes sometimes sometimes the back

off. Yeah, we weren't fools, but yeah, we had a They had a serious thing with the with one of the Metabacs got shut down, you know, in the Hamburger Hill, at the famous incident where they got shut down. And see, the gods were funneling me to be in the Battle of Hamburger Hill. There was no doubt about it. They wanted me

on that in that battle. First of all, I was in the d company, the worst one Well, guess what D company tries to outflank during the Battle of Hamburger Hill, tries to outflank the NBA on top and go around and then go back up the hill. Well, they didn't get off. They didn't get as far as the bottom. The NBA were smart. They were on them, and so they were shooting them up at all kinds

of casual. If they call a metalvact, well just about that time, I can't swear it was the same metal act that I volunteered to be on. I wasn't. I was just a ground powder but I was a loose cannon of the fire business. I't really didn't have anything to do here. Comes as metalvac comes in fast, slams on the ground before wounded and sticks litters, field expedient litters, and with leaves and leaves and blood all over

the place. They got all that, cleaned it all up, and I said, they said, man, there's some big ship going on there. So I knew that was Hamburger Hill. He'd just come in from Hamburger Hill. And I said, let me go with it. I'm a medic. I can help him. I go. We did. He said, yeah, let me ask him so yeah, ask him. They said, nah, we could use you, but no, we need to we need to space more. So they took off and that could have been the same one.

It goes into myt you know. There's some connections, like electricity is connected in that company pea company they call the medic Sanders as the captain. He says, don't come in, it's too hot. The torbo is the captain the matter of Act. He says. Now he's thinking, we made it every time before, so he's coming in. He drops a hoist. The jungle penetrator picks up a guy named Pickle. Pickle. He picks up Pickle and some I could say it's a bastard from Hallinois. I call him

a hero from Hanninois. Shoots an RPG down into the rotor disc from above into the unarmed matter of Act, blows it out of the sky and it comes straight down on Pickle and everyone else was burned above who killed except Horrible. They got him out just in time, and he survived, he barely. They threw him in a pile of dead people and later noticed he wasn't some dead. But I kind of figured out the bird I volunteered for that

was one time. And then you know, when I was in a cover, we went, we went, we were headed right to the Hamburger Hill in nineteen sixty eight, And there's other times. I can't think of exactly. One of the things about your book is is you don't shy away from I don't want to say the horrors of war, but the challenges of war, and you know, the humor that guys get during war or on some of the horrific events that happened during the war, simply especially in a war

where it's hard to distinguish sometimes the enemy from the civilians. Do you do you recall your the Vietcong Princess chapter? Oh? Yeah, can you tell us, because I think it's I think it's a really good example of of how challenging Vietnam was. God yeah, yeah, Well, it's nice to hear you say these things that they were very unportant. Yeah. That was basically, to make a long story longer, make a long story short, we shot up a book of a boatload of civilians, women and children.

They were flying South vietnamme slag, Now, how can that happen? We're we're the hundred first airborne, but we took the surrender of Germany. You know. Shoot, by god, I was supposed to be in Gurden Brets. I didn't. I don't. I'm not oppressed with the hundred first Airborn. I just went to their meeting in San Antonio, you know, and I had to watch my mouth. I mean, I love the guys only I think there's only two other ones that were in getting on. But anyway,

how could that happen? How could that happen? The hundred first airborne shoot up? That's there was another shoot up, the two the two things which which you know, don't ask me to go to war again, bro, No matter. That's that's the I hope the concepts of my book. What about the kids? You think you gotta think about the kids while you Navy seals during brets. What you're gonna go over there, You're gonna you're gonna heard abouts of kids. It's inevitable. What about them? And on?

Yeah, so we shut this We shut this boat up from a house. They were in a free book. They were in a free fires Yeah. Well yeah, well we know it was a free virus one we made it. But did every school and every hamlet put out pamphlets that we printed, oh this is a free VIRS home. Don't go in you're I don't pick that happen. A lot of people didn't get the word right. So

some some bastard the pilot radios induces. We gotta we got these people out there and free virus on and some probably some clerkses fire him up, fire him up. Oh okay, So we started firing him up and I couldn't see him very well. So I got up on one round with my hand. I had at him seventy nine for some reason, and I was I was trying to shoot ducks before when we were waiting till this bird. Anyway, Uh yeah, I got round off. The gunners are going crazy,

the copilot shooting at them seventeen nine out his window. So it's says catch twenty two. We turned into the rescuers. We land. The boat lands right next to us, and it's beautiful, sixteen year old, gorgeous girl. The only one that got hit her. Her thigh was split open and it wasn't bleeding. Thank god, it wasn't a bad bleeder. And so I, you know, I fixed up as best I could, and jeez, well what a catestrophe. So in the book. I just got it.

About a month later, we're regarding a bridge down with my food lock close to that area, and and I see this girl sitting on a bunker. I can't I go over there, and I can't see her legs. And I see her leg it's just a big scar on her inside of her thigh. And yeah, one hundred first dierboard a month and I felt I felt like shit, I've walked away. I couldn't say anything. But four years ago I went back to Vietnam. I went looking for and I didn't find her, but I was close. I could have, but I gave

up for a temporarily. And Michael beat and you're just to be clear for people listening, it's it's we're not talking about an event like my life. We're not talking about intentional harm to civilians that that you're in this guerrilla war where a lot of the combatants were not uniformed. They were using certain routes and paths, and so when you guys see a boat, you're in a helicopter and you see a boat and command says, it's probably because it could

have just as likely have been like Vietcong or NVA moving things. Uh Like, it's the challenge of the situation. It's not from malintent. If yeah, it wasn't it wasn't we could have been more curvel. I mean, the pilot could have gone down and hovered right by him seeing them was a bunch of kids and all men and women. But you know it didn't happen. So yeah, right, you're yeah, there was no U. Yeah,

my life is a real source spot with me. That's that's I won't say too much about it, get in trouble, but my life that that's a disgrace for Americans, all the armed forces, every human being. It's a disgrace and it'll always be. It's great, it'll never go away.

Yeah, I mean you talk about it, and you work and you and you talk about you know, like a lot of your book is very gung ho, and it's very like what a soldier like, any any soldier or marine or airman, anybody who's been in combat will we'll get the reference, they'll get a lot of the humor, they'll understand sort of the dark side, but also just how when war is your every day, how that just becomes your personality. So there's very gung ho sort of moments in this book.

But you're also very, very like conscientious about calling out things like my lie and the horrors the war can inflict upon Americans, upon other people, things like that. M thanks. I haven't talked to too many people that have read the whole books. It's gratifying me. No, it's like I said, it's it's a great book from the from the perspective of Like I said, I was kind of just just your that your one or two page chapter on getting ice, like getting ice in a combat zone and the simple

pleasure that a soldier gets from this this thing that most people have. You can go to your refrigerator and get it anytime you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't even have a refrigerator here, you know, I usually neighbors. But yeah, I mean it was so hot. It was so easy to write that because I mean it included all all sense of sites everything, and it was just so hot and that they brought actually brought us

a chunk of ice. It was on bootoo. Yeah. Yeah, you did mention Delta company, you know, and and their troubles are they are they're also the company that got hit by friendly fire. Correct Or am I getting or did I misread that, Am I misread? No, No, that's right, that's that was Arbitalian. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. That was Delta Company. H they got wiped out, they got bombire a bomb wire or air force. That's that's my comparison with customers.

It's straight on. Customers laps down. It's straight on. There's so many similarities. I just love that. I'm so glad you brought that up. It's it's yeah, that was a worldway story. That was First of all, we were just named Air Cavalry and some some of the officers and I had black cowboy ass in the rear, and we had those pinned pinned swallow tail flat Avery flags. Well, I think the Army does a period.

We had to we had I mentioned the coat, the Colts. We had colts anonymous with the Indian Wars and in the West West fighting, we had coats. We were armed with Colts and they were we had nineteen rounds in them. They were armed with Ak forty seven. They had thirty rounds. It's just like Custer. He was out gunning horribly those old civil Those carvings he had were prone to jam too, just like the M sixteens were rumored to jam, but they didn't even have ramrods. Oh we at least we

had ramrods and punch of bullet back out. But anyway, so here we come. This is August fourth of this huge combat assault into the Ashow Valley. H we come in there. We're surrounded, flying through a fire just to get in there. We're already surrounded. And so all the helicopters are named after Indians. Drops, everyone of them except the kobral We had American Indians with us, and so we dismount our mounts. And let's just how

customer fought. Custom fought. They get off their horses and make a skirmish line. One guy would hold horses and they go kneel down. So they're on foot. So we're on foot too. And his his his big as folly was if you read I've read a couple of books recently. That's why I know his biggest fall. He was dividing, dividing his forces, right, he divided his furtherest. He had two sub lieutenants or whatever, he had Reno and the other Yahoo. Well he and he goes up a river.

They don't know what the river's call. They you got asking the Indian because they think it's a little big horn or the big they called the big horn. Anyway, we'll call it the little big horn. He goes up the right hand side and Rene goles up the left hand side, looking for caps. That's what we're doing. We're looking for caps. We don't know where they are. Custer didn't know where they were either. At first. We're looking for caps. Okay, we didn't know how many's in the camps

or where they were. You know, it's kind of preposterous. And the cavalry back then, we're used to having the Indians run. They run usually, well, so did we They run usually? Okay, So we follow a river too. There's only one big river there. It's the south of Hamburg or Hill a couple of miles. It's the Don the Lower. It's in the map, it's in the book. I don't the low, so I'm the right. Is A and B company. It's like Custer cinem oh, I was in a company D, D and C. We're on the

left side. It's like Reno split up. Reno hit the Indians first. So the D company they hit, they hit some NBA and they spent the whole night there. They didn't move. The next morning he called in the air air air dropped a bombing running the blow them away. It just blew them away, a decimator, just like Reno. Reno hit the Indians and they attacked him, and I think he lost half his men. He retreated, he ran dog Doc. We just lost your sound. I can't see

him. Oh I hear him. Your things it's unplugged. Sorry about that, Please continue ignore me. It's it's going here. Yeah, So as I say, yeah, so Rino runs runs, he's getting The Indians thought he was he was charging what he was at first, but then he was running and when they realized he was running, it took after him and murdered him. So like us, we lost. Essentially we lost the whole company.

Well we're really split up now. D Company and C Company were miles away over on south of the Annalore River and we're on the north, just like Custer. And we turned due north almost directly to Hamburger Hill. It's directly where we started heading, just like Custer. And if we'd continued, and that's when I got I walked into an ambush. Me and the rto we walked within twenty feet several NBA and they let Louise Fanos finally part the rto let loose on them and h oh, so anyway, our lieutenant gets

get the squad and they cha. He starts chasing him for a while and higher beckwith Orse's. The general is telling him, we'll give me a BodyCount, give me a body count. Pursue get him. And Lieutenant Roney his words, he said he must have gone to West Point and studied Custer. And he says, uh, they want a bought a count, they can go get him for themselves. He tells everybody to sit down, eat and h well, General zas was might have studied Custer too. They pulled us

off. They pulls us out before we got wicked off. You uh, you know you, like I said, your your book is fantastic, and there was there was a real you talk about a couple times, but there was a real disconnect between officers in the rear and the soldiers on the front. And and I think one of the chapters that really signify that is your chapter the Last Walk to a Court martial. Can you can you talk about that experience because it's fascinating, like when you get off powered you're coming from

the field. Yeah, yeah, that was that was comical. Just this was when I was getting short, so it was a little cockies son of a book and somewhat. Let's see, I had I I was wearing my jump wings on my booty out and I come down. We just get dropped off. We were at a fire base for a few days ever, I guess, and then we were coming into the rear cam'p eagle huge, you know, rear area p x's movie theater or base or base area. So I get out the chopper. The chopper is just dusting off the whole area,

dry dusk everywhere, no trees, dirty, tired. So it's just me for some reason, they just I was getting short. So I'm walking down the hill to go into the age station and the company area or to our bar, and I see this this captain or a lieutenant standing in the shade over there. But he comes up towards me like as it just going to welcome me back, you know, right, Well I was near to this and he goes up here, truth, how's it going? I go,

okay, he says, base you calling me cereal? Yes, sir, he says, oh, you know, your jumpings are pretty shiny. There are you airboard qualifying hid. I notice he doesn't have any win. This is the battalion. It's heavy, all the officers, rangers and airborne qualified beck us and oh and so they get a lone dog like him, you're gonna send him out on a hot day mad mad dogs and cherry lieutenants to go out in the midday sun. They're the only one. They're stupid

enough to do that. Well, they send him out there, We'll go go her house. These guys coming in and go see what they're He says, yeah, you got shiny wing. You can't wear that out of the field. They go, yeah, I always do. You call me sirup by the way, Oh yes, sirrup. Let me see that weapon. Grabs my weapon, pulls it out, looks like it's dirty. Yeah, shoot the shoots true. Oh yeah, he throws it back to me and they gotta Yeah. So I realized I just got off of a dust bowl

out of here. You know what a helicopter you know who woo win win win does. And so he said, oh yeah, I'm I'm putting you up for chargers. Okay, I'm going to get a beer. I forgot about charges. What are you gonna donna court martial? Are gonna execute? Yeah? What are they gonna send you home? Yeah? What are they gonna do? Send me to a bank? God? Yeah? So? And what the funny part it is about? I'm really getting short. I reasonably, I did reusable. I gotta leave. I leave. I got

a arn arm. You just got one of R and R. That's it. I gotta lead to seven dayly for some reason, I think because I blew away with an enemy. I don't know why. But they gave me a leave. It was great, but I'm maybe trying to get another leave. I'm in the clerk's office and he says, oh, Doc, quite a way. You know an article fifteen, don't worry about it. I said, what's an article fifteen? He says, it's non judicial punishment.

It's like they don't court martial with anymore. They take money with one hundred and one dollars and my friend's kids or something like that. And I go and he points to the trash can. It dawned under what he was saying. All right, he's ramps these ranch a lot mothers. They're all right,

they're doing their thank you and so that was that. So so basically he filed that j JP that that officer put on you and the special the circular filing cabinet, which what filt like cabinet, the circular filing cabinet that he taught the order. Yeah, the circular circular Yeah, yeah, he tossed it in the trash. That's what they call it. Now. That's good. Yeah, yeah, So you know, just to touch on the epilogue because it was interesting from your perspective, the epilogue is who lost the

war? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I get a little there's some controversy, you might say in the right. You know, I believe in a lot of conspiracy, theoris and stuff because I don't want to get into but yeah, who lost the word? In my opinion, we didn't lose the war. We just left. It was kind of maybe you could call it chicken ship, but I don't call it that. We just left. We were invited over there by criminal government. Our criminal government was invited over

there by their criminal you know, for money. It's all money. Just sell hell coops. Check it out. Who LBJ LBJ Lyndon Baines Johnson was president. He was also a big stockholder with his wife with Bell helicopters. Now, what's one with this picture. He's the president and he's making up millions off of the war gear helicopters. Well, what's wrong with this pictures? So yeah, So anyway, a little bit off track here. So ah, that's my opinion that So, yeah, it was all for money.

And so we're in the war and it was time to go. We were advisors, we were supposi to be advisors, and we gave it. Hell, we gave it our best shot. We're there for years and it's time to go. So we left. I don't think we left. We didn't lose it. We just loved. Yeah. And so when you got home, Like, how did you adjust a post Vietnam life? Well,

I was lucky in a way. It was not too bad because I still had had fourteen months left in the Army, which I was not happy with, but I was still It left me down easy, and I'm still in there. I went to the toy put me in the Ranger, an actual lerp. I became an actual lerp at the States side. And then I

got a wonderful, wonderful trip to Germany. I still had time to go to went to Germany to go skiing and joined the tenth Mountain Special Forces possible Greenbrigs and Garnisher being a ski team and stuff, and so it wasn't too bad about left now. Yeah, and then after your military service, like where did you like? What did you do and where'd you go? You mentioned being a bush pilot, maybe a one or two an authorized trips with

electronics to Mexico? Like what route did your life take after that? We're left? I was. I got a discharge in Germany and we were all smoking hash, everybody smoking. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. I just did it because we won the boys. So yeah, all right, So I ended up in Switzerland, you know, party girls, man night and day skiing every day. I was the best skier if I was a skier before, I was best skier in that Swiss American in the

Swiss town. And it was great. So I did not They don't went back to the stage and the spending only my blood money on school and rant that wasn't happening. So I could take flight lessons to get your private license. They paid for everything else, all your commercial licenses and all that stuff. So I did not ended up in Alaska, and that was I was a total adrenaline junky now because you might imagine and traumatized the medics had.

Medics were taught to kill immediately when you entered the service, and then they were trying to save lives. I mean, little traumat little ying, and yang a little conflict. So I'm total, total junkie. If I flying Bush and Alaska, that was great. It was just what I needed for for a few years. But then that war fare and I ended it up. I'm flying the Caribbean. I knew every smuggler from Miami to some Barbados, and I want my friends everybody and great stories. I've met a bunch

of German kids. They come over from Germany to get their American pilot license, and they were flying with me, flying Legit out of Puerto Rico, and they hooked me up with a They said, well we got these Germans, well German guys down and Bolivia. Yeah, they will meet them and you could start a hunting it so far businessman. That's me. I did that. I went down there. Man, there's some wild characters down there. Yeah, Like where do they come from? That happen. Yeah,

Uh, how Germans end up? That's crazy? And uh, I tell people I met Adolf Hitler. I met him him is they are in Santa Cruz, Bolivia. No, I just kidding. I did not meet Alia Fidler, but I could have because it was a long time ago and an old guy now. And I met other characters and this is my connection down There was Hans Steffield. These guys, believe me, had a you could say a vault the old government. They had a revolution every year every year.

So these guys, these old German, I don't want to say their Nazis, but they were a bunch of German guys and they're gonna take over the government. They're gonna take go on me to bring guns down and all this, and I kind of shied away from it. But I got involved in the animal business and I had the police coming to my hotel. I had a client right next door. The first guy I took honey opened the door and there's a thirty eight pointed at my nose and they said, oh,

come come with me, come come on us. And pretty girl too, and there was like cannibal, just normal stuff, just normal stuff, bringing rifles they want. They really liked the rifles and they just wanted the rifles. Let me go, But the German guy ratted me out and fucking crafts. It isn't the world of that. And then we got the same guys wanted to start moving cocaine and stuff of shocking, shocking, I can't

believe that. Yeah, they wanted to move it up there to the stage and they were doing it and suitcases and all the stupid weathers, and I told him, and you guys are going to jail, and uh, but me, I found out there's this great book called Over and Back Why wild Bill Callahan at there was a big industry in Texas, South Texas, and they fly, they fly. Contributory would be TVs and refrigerators and stuff legal.

It's legal in the United States, highly illegal in Mexico. And we'd do that and big old World War two bombers and DC three's himself was the greatest job ever. I did that. So I'm diffusing, slowly, maturely from the war. We flew down there at night, come and shoot us down. They shoot us down if we went in daytime, And so we go at night in these sea forty sevens and stuff. It's great to get a thousand dollars a trip and six hour trips. It wasn't bad. That's

uh, it's fantastic. And where are you now? Like you have HAWKRYCN is this you art behind you? Yeah? Yes I do. I'm gonna I'm a combat art questions for I was? I was an artist before I went to Vietnam. So I caught myself an unofficial so that the Army card to teach people how to be painter artists. They probably did, so what I uh? And where can I've been doing that for years? And where can people find your art? Where can they find you and find your art?

It's on Vietnam Combat Art, Vietnam Combat Art one on one dot com. O god, it's on them. That's awesome. It's on the book. It's on the book. It's in the description of this video. What well, So for the viewers who are watching this video, we'll have a link down in the description, so the folks who are watching this can go down and they can go and find your artwork. Yeah. And if you're if you're listening on a podcast, it's really really good artwork. Combat Art

cool one O one one zero one dot com. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's a lot of really cool stuff. So we have maybe is there a lot of surfing and not just worse though a lot of worse though. I mean you can answer the question. And does Charlie surf? I love this man like the flower Power. Yeah, that's that's awesome. He does. Now it's just over there four years ago. And do we have any questions for William h We only have the one like somebody just gave us a sticker

real quick. Uh oh, doesn't know how much a draft go sport during any draft? And Bolivia, uh, just cat chaser. Oh what were we gonna show us? Well, this is a card with the address. Push it, Push it to your left, I think, up up up, I'll pop up up up, hold it, hold it right by your right eye. Hold it right by your right eye, which yeah yeah, and then just kind of push it up a little bit, pop hopp hop up up up up up a little bit further. There we are there,

we are there. That's it. Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it excellent. Perfect. That's a great business card. Yeah it is. That's awesome. That's a Vietnam Cambat art one. Oh, one dot com. You know, everything is there. I carried an NBA school on my rustic Yeah, I was gonna leave that out, like it's in the book. However, me drink stuff had on this show. I feel

like I need one. Uh yeah. I mean there's so much in your book and so many just like nuanced things, you know, you know, talking about the school and you know, the dude's joking about ears, like just stuff like that. Like I highly recommend everybody if you want, really, like I said, a really nuanced and and and very anecdotal tales about life in Vietnam in combat, like your book captures that perfectly. Thank you, thank you. That's that's what I say. I say, it's a

microscopic look at jungle fighting. Yeah yeah, yeah, cook cookie. Yeah. Well's how to take a ship in a hammock in in the hurricane. Don't want to go out from a hammock in a hooge. They take a machitty and you did go a deep hole right underneath you and you hit it and cover it up. It's medically approved. I medically approve it. There you go, like, I mean, there there are so many lessons like how to take a ship in a hammock and a hooge during a hurricane.

Again is stunned to death by bees. Yeah, uh no, it was just it was we had a sticker from cat Chaser. We deeply appreciate you guys and Doc, thank you so much for joining us to night. We really appreciate your time and folks out well. Thank you guys. Folks out there. Please check out Hawk Recon you find it on Amazon and get a

copy of the book. Please check us out on Patreon if you want to have access in these episodes ad free, there's a linked down the description and uh castacarabeo dot com if you want to have some cigars, awesome cigars from one of our friends and otherwise. Next uh, this coming Friday, we'll have Robin Horsfall on the show, who served in the Special Air Service and so we're looking forward to heaven on the show. All right, So what about the sevens and the atomic bomb? Who was into that? Bro?

We're working well, I'm working on it. I'm working on it. We'll talk after the show. I'm actually working on a history project, a battle of that stuff about the green light teams. Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm I'm very interested in that topic. And uh, I'm happy to talk about that and I think I'll have a lot more to talk about it in the future. Real quick, JK, thank you very much for the donation. We deeply appreciate. Jake

says much love to our vets. Thanks for sharing your story, Doc. Yeah, thank you so much for spending some of your Friday evening with us Hot recon head Hunters of the Ashaw Valley. Check it out. Oh that's your art. Oh that's fantastic. I got it on the cover. I had to twist some arms, but that's awesome. Man. Oh, thank you so much. William, Thank you guys. That was real fun. That was really good. I'm glad you had a good time. Man.

Thanks everybody, have a good night. We'll see you next time, all right,