From West Point to Ranger Regiment | Hailey Gibbons | Ep. 391

The Team House with your hopes. Jack Murphy and David Park. Hello, folks, welcome to episode three hundred and ninety one of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with tonight's guest Hailey Gibbons. We're really excited to have on the show first female Army ranger. As I was describing to Haley before the show, we didn't even have them when I was in That's how old I am. So this is a new thing. We're all adapting. But no, in all seriousness, I'm really

Of course, I'm excited to be here, and I did to get to know you a little bit better and talk about stuff.

Yeah. Absolutely, so let's talk a little bit. I mean, this is a very like I'm sure we'll talk about it, but this is like a very i mean, let's face it, it's an unconventional path for a woman to take in our society even today, And I'm just kind of curious, what was it that sort of led you towards military service and in an elite unit at that What was it about you that kind of or your life that sort of led you in that direction.

Yeah, so very very different, very unique.

I mean not that a lot of women identify to this story kind of. I am the youngest of three daughters. I was born and raised in Bellingham, Washington. Not familiar with military really at all growing up. And when it came time to figure out what college or I wanted to go to, I was slipping through those like big college books. And my middle sir, who's a brainiac. She's an aeronautical engineer, astronautical an engineer, just like insanely smart.

I was more of the jock of the family.

She was. I like, saw West Point and I was like, Oh, this is so cool. They get a workout every day.

I want to go. I want to get six pack. This is gonna be awesome.

And my sister she was like, Heyley, you won't be able to get in. And just like many youngest siblings, many women with chips on their shoulder. That's all motivation I needed to apply with the support of my parents. They were like shocked, but my dad was like, let's go. This is awesome. I'm here to support it. So it was the only college I applied to, which is very Lindsay Danilac, who you talk to that this is kind of the same story as her, So very odd. But

And so West Point, if I recall correctly, I was enlisted nug there's a mandatory like engineering degree the easiest ones.

There's like nuclear engineering, structural engineering, and I chose Systems engineering, which is kind of like operations and that kind of fits how my brain works. I commissioned as a Lotus station, which the system's background really helped in My degree was business, so very general. But one thing I knew I wanted to have out after the Army was to have options.

Engineering, and two sports are mandatory, right A sport, I think a sport Okay, yes.

Yeah, So, like I said, I was an athlete, always have been, still am. And during our summer training there was a thing called open athletics. So during our like basic training BEAST, I don't know what the acronym stands for, but they would call it BEAST. You were allowed to go like play football with the football team and all the recruits, go play basketball with the basketball team and all the recruits. And as a soccer player, I went to the soccer team with the soccer girls. And I'm fast,

Yeah, no, I didn't know that. Any funny stories about West Point about getting demerits or any other funny stuff

So not really funny. Kind of retrospective actually.

So one of the reasons why I got kicked off the soccer team was I got in trouble and a freshman year it was for something academic. I didn't cite a paper properly, and when I was confronted with it, I fully admitted it. I was like, yeah, I used that person's map overlay for my PowerPoint and I.

Got in trouble.

I had to do a like big board, and end of freshman year I was deemed a six month turnback. So all throughout West Point I had that just like looming over me. And I didn't even tell my parents, so I was just like suffering in silence. But I was damned if I wasn't going to graduate with my class, because half the reason that you go to West Point is to throw your hat in the air, like this photo right there, like you need that photo.

And so I was like, I'm not going to not get that photo.

What is that term six month throwback? What does that mean?

So it means you have to stay at west Point for six more months after your class graduates, So it's like turnback almost or like super senior.

And I was I was embarrassed. I was ashamed.

It like wasn't who I identified as, like as a December grad. And so I worked so hard the next three years to get reinstated with my class, and I did a bunch of stuff and it all kind of worked out because that's when I found out I was really good at doing like tactical things. I joined the Sandhurst team to kind of brown nose to my like NCOs that are in charge of me.

The major that was my tack. I and Sandhurst is.

Like a military competition that you do with a bunch of colleges.

The Sandhurst College.

Over in England comes over and it's a like a weekend long competition. You're rocking, you're shooting, you're one rope bridging, you're land navvying, all this stuff. And that was like my first real competitiveness towards military things and I was successful at it.

So that's kind of like my.

Trouble story but not very funny, but it helped identify some skill sets that definitely.

Helped me later on in life.

Yeah, definitely, I mean teaching you some of the perseverance that you needed later on, for sure.

Absolutely.

So graduate from west Point and then what's the next stop for you?

So I graduated from West Point and I commissioned as a transportation officer. I was very logistic, system minded, and that was my first choice.

I was so excited.

And when you commission as a transportation officer, you go down to Fort Lee. I commissioned in twenty fourteen, and that was before women were allowed in combat arms. If I was allowed to go to combat a combat arms branch, probably would have done infantry, just because I found great success in tactics Physically fit, I was ranked very high

Academically not so much. But that's okay.

But uh, ranger material, what was that ranger material?

Exactly?

Exactly A tough ranger, strong ranger, not the smart one. But I went to Fort Lee and that's where the Logistics schoolhouse is, and that's where I learned all about being a transportation officer, which was really cool. And I had one of my best friends there with me. And that was in the summer of twenty fourteen, and that's kind of right around when women were allowed to go to Ranger school, and of course I wanted to go.

I knew I could.

I always looked upon the ranger tab is something that like I knew I could have and I knew I could achieve, and.

I wanted that record.

I wanted like when you walk in the door, people see that tab and they're like, okay, awesome, and we like Fort Lee.

They put together like a.

Pre Ranger pt situation in the morning, So I went, I.

Tried out for it.

I got a slot, and so every morning I would be doing like hard PTE with all the guys that wanted to go to Ranger School. So out of Transportation Bullock. At the end of the day, none of us got slots. We would have to go to our units. And then so after six months at Fort Lee, I went down to Fort Hood and served in the forty nine Transportation Battalion in a Expeditionary Sustainment Command.

So that's where I was, and.

That's kind of where I got my first slot or try at Ranger School.

And what was so twenty fifteen, I mean ten years ago was early on as far as this going on. I mean, what was that sort of that process like for you?

Yeah, it was interesting. I mean I was a dumb, clueless lieutenant. I had no idea about what a school's MCO was, what an ATAR slot is. So I did a dumb thing and my friend was like, oh, Haley, you're having trouble. Just email the guy in charge of MCOE at Fort Benning and MCOE is Maneuver Center of Excellence, which is like the main command at Fort Benning. So Butterbar Haley emails the three star general at MCOE and I'm like.

Hey, sir, I'm trying to get a slot at ranger school.

And luckily General Miller is really good friends with my best friend's dad, so I didn't get too much in trouble from General Miller.

My command team.

On the other hand, if they could take me out back and like beat me, they would have. Like it was in looking back on it, I am mortified that I did that. I am. I still have the emails just to a reminder to stay humble and don't do

And then I had to wait a few months.

I got a normal slot through our school's NCO, and I was with the first way to go to our attack, so that in twenty fifteen, women had to go to our attack Ranger Training Assessment course. I believe it's the pre.

Ranger course at for Betting put on by the National Guard.

And so I was there with my best friend Jasmine and behaved Christ So we were the first way for women to go through our attack. Unfortunately, the like third or second day, got a really bad concussion and med dropped. But Shae Hager, she was the one that actually found me unconscious, and she was also my platoon leader at west Point, so it was all very like kids met almost.

What happened? Did you fall off an obstacle on the oh course or something?

So I wish it was that valiant. I fell off my bunk bed.

Oh my god, I know.

I had a large those like PX shower shoes that you get that are just like rubber, and they were like five sizes too big. I was wearing them. I was trying to climb up to the top bunk and the shoes slipped. I tried to grab and I smacked my head on the I think it was the opposite bed or the floor.

I don't.

It was terrible embarrassing, but everything happens for a reason.

Yeah, geez, I'm sorry to hear that. That's crazy. So yeah, that's that's again another setback, something that you kind of had to like not start all over again. But it kind of feels like that at the time. I say that as a as a ranger school recycle myself. So you what, you went back to your transport unit at that Point.

Yeah, So I went back to Fort Hood and a lot of as most people in the military, they'd suffer from, like mental health issues, depression, and looking back on it, I now recognize that that is like what I was suffering with, like after this like big loss, definitely in a dark spot, and that was kind of the same back at West Point after I got in trouble, but I just kept my head down and I was just ready to get out of Fort Hood. So I survived my lieutenant years. I performed well, but I wanted to

I was in a movement control team.

It's like a very weird first unit to be and it's like twenty people and you do a bunch of I was like in charge of an airport at once

I was a what was the job?

I was the logistics liaison to the Korean Army, so I got to work directly with the Korean Army headquarters. And I was at Camp youngen At, which is like a very small detachment, and I got to live in the city. I was in charge of all the people there. I got to travel a bunch. I was like fully immersed in the Korean culture. So it was an amazing experience one that I like. When I found out I was going to create I cried. I was like, I can't go graze school. But it was definitely awesome and

So yeah, this was sort of like a big decision point for you.

Then yeah, yeah, and all along I was like, I can't wait to get out of the Army. This is going to be amazing. The minute my feet like improcessed second Brigade Support Battalion and to two I was like, here's my FRAD paperwork, take it please, and my REFRAD.

So refrat is request from active duty.

And since I completed my five years, I was able to get out and go do whatever I wanted.

I submitted the packet, I had my like ets Lea.

Then I was doing hiring our heroes and had like a Nike internship lined up down in Beaverton, organ So it was gonna be awesome. But when my refrad paperwork was processing, they were like, okay, Hayley, go up to the brigade headquarters and go help out the four shop up there. We'll get someone else who needs a KD like Katie time in the VSB.

And so I was like okay, sure, So I go up to.

The brigade staff, and that's where I met my like one of my favorite people, Major Gillian Burke. She was the Brigade S four, a West Point grad, just a fierce of a leader and just a woman so intelligent. And this is like the first time I ever had

And she told me, Hayley, are you sure you don't want.

To stay in like we need someone to take a company command of this FSC like they're hurting and we need someone. And I'm like, yes, ma'am, I'm good. I don't want to do it. But I just kept seeing how important she made logistics in a brigade operation. Like she would walk into the the S three like conference room, everyone would stop and look at Major Burk Okay, Joe, what are we doing? Which is rare for someone for a brigade staff to look at a logistiction for the answers.

Was like, this is awesome.

So even though my packet was already approved to with HQDA, I already had my outdate, I pulled it. And that's when things kind of changed for me for the better.

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Yeah, I think.

So I wouldn't say like I wanted to be the Gi Jane. I just know I hadn't reached my full potential, right, and I wasn't brave enough at the time to like speak it or to like create that space for myself to grow in. I just kind of took what was handed to me, and I was like, Okay, yeah, let's whatever. We'll make the best of the situation. Grow where you're planted.

It represented the thing that you wanted to do in the army.

All along, right, Yeah, absolutely.

So first you got to go and do company command time. So what was that like?

Oh, company command.

Everyone says it's the best job in the army, and I think they're lying.

I definitely think they're lying. I I learned a lot about myself.

I learned how I didn't want to lead, and I learned that there's always room for growth. I was a company commander, ford support company in an infantry battalion in a striker brigade combat team. So my company was always moving. There was like never a like maintenance thing that wasn't happening, fuel thing that wasn't happening. We were always running and gunning and helping to support our.

Guys and so it was our team.

It was. It was an awesome job and like very like we were in the weeds of it. But I learned so much about myself and I'm not really that proud of how I like looking back on it. I definitely like, Hailey, you could have done a lot better. You could have been that leader that they needed, but uh I, I just didn't know any any better. I think, uh I definitely yelled a fair share. I'm so sorry about that. I one second. Uh I even during my

It's in company command.

If you're not an empathetic leader, like you're you're not doing doing it right because you're leading your soldiers. It's their lives, whether or not you're deployed in a combat zone or just in garrison. And like it was just so hard, especially like having to say no when a soldier wanted to go to their grammar's funeral. I was like, I can't leave for my I'm so sorry, and like all I wanted to do is like buy the plane

Yeah, I mean I can see that long days and did you you do? Did you deploy with that unit?

No? We did, uh not deploy.

No, But you're you're just busy like j r X and all those kinds of exercises.

NTC j r C.

We planned two Pacific Pathway missions and that was really cool, dealing with like foreign nations coordinating all that supply stuff and logistics. That was a very cool, uh thing that I got to do.

But no, I didn't.

Deploy all right, So on that note, biggest lesson from company command time, what would you want to tell your younger self be patient, tactical patients. Yes, so as your company command time winds down, it sounds like it was probably a bit of a relief after you know, eighteen

Yeah.

So I luckily I had Major Gillian Burke and then my brigade commander at the time, Colonel Jonathan Chung. They I told him my idea during a counseling and They're like, absolutely, Hayley,

I've had some great leaders, but.

It was I had a phone interview with the regimental esport and that went well, and he was like, Okay, submit your packet, it'll go through the process. If it gets approved, then you're you have a slot at regimental selection. And so I complete the packet. It's this big packet. You have to do all this stuff and then you have to do the PT test, do all these things.

Yeah, no train up for that go no, I.

Mean I was doing push ups behind the field kitchen, so it was.

It was great.

So the Ranger Assessment and Selection Selection Program, I believe it's RASS two that the officers go to at that time. Were there any women serving in the Ranger Regiment? Like what year was this?

This was twenty twenty, okay, And there were the Regimental psychologist she a woman. Also west Point grad the Regimental S two and a woman, and then there was an NCO in the Intelligence Battalion that she hadn't gone to Ranger School yet, but she was serving in the Armed.

That's the awesome thing about the Ranger Regiment is that you know, even the cooks have Ranger tabs and tan berets because they went to the same selection course you did.

Yeah, And that was another thing that kind of drew me to a Ranger regiment because I think about like Special Forces being a green Beret. But if I, like, you go to the the group support battalion and you're not a part of the like you don't wear the green gray. And I was like, I want to wear the tan berat. I will be I want to be a Ranger. I don't want to just be support to ranger regimens. So that was one of the cool things about it.

And I remember my friends they're like, hey, do you want to be a Ranger?

They're crazy, and I was like, sat, exactly, perfect funny.

So I tell us about RASP too.

RASP was very interesting. Nothing like RASP one.

God bless those people who suffer and endure all that. I heard all about the that in Ranger School.

But RASP too. It is a three ish week selection process.

There's a physical aspect, academic aspect, and a board at the end.

I can't like give the.

Details of it, but one of the hardest workouts I've ever done, like one of the hardest, like twelve hours of my life have been.

It was in rasp too. It was it was a lot.

I was the only woman in the rasp plast There was about twenty of us, and this one instance was really funny.

The whole.

Quiet professionals, I didn't really didn't really clock that off the bat, and now I get shipped for it for posting online. But that's neither here nor there. But when we were doing one of the first workouts, there was this bigger chief worn officer in my squad and we were doing like jumping over the eight foot wall, going up a caving ladder, climbing a rope, uh dragon dummies and everything or Randy's and we were in last place.

Trying to get the caning ladder and he's this guy.

The caving ladder is tiny, and I'm like, come on, number eight or I forget his name or what I said. And then one of the ranger and CEOs just stone cold, deadpan face. He was like, roster number eight, this is not cheerleading camp. And I was like, oh my god, I should just.

Go home now. This is mortifying. Like it was, it was awful.

And then when we were like finished the event, we didn't we I can't think we came in last for this like little Morning Pete session.

But we were walking back.

In one of the my buddies who I'm still friends with now he was.

Like, yeah, yeah, you know, quiet professionals don't cheer and it was just mortifying.

You know that's because I would point out that's because it's selection and it's supposed to be sort of an individual event. You're being assessed individually. But I mean, the thing I do like about the range of regiment. As much shit as we all talk about each other, there is a lot of like bro support, you know that you're my boy blue, you know that kind of thing.

Yeah, And that's one of the things I love about it in like range regiment, like you are expected to be the best, but to be the best team. And that's what range of regiment is. It's one of the best teams in the entire world. But to be like a good teammate, you have to be solid yourself. So that's where that like individual aspect comes in. But for me, like my strong team background, like and of course I was a cheerleader, that just my natural personality kind of

So I know, you can't get too much into the specifics of you know, I've heard there's like problem solving events and things like that, and they want to see will you panic? You know, how do you handle different situations and things? How was it, you know, when when you got to the board, how did that go at that point? Were you nervous?

I wasn't nervous. The board went very well.

I yes, I practiced answering questions well. I looked up all the little flash cards about board questions that I was prepared. But to be confident, you must be prepared. But I walked in. I was proud of how I performed throughout the entire assessment selection and I was just honest. I was me. I didn't try to be like a Broie version of me or some inauthentic something. It was funny. I like, sit down at the you like walk in. You sit down and they're like, Ranger Gibbons, are you nervous?

Yeah, they know if you're BS and and so they you get selected. But there's a caveat to this, of course.

Yes. I after the board, they they let me know that you are selected for service and seventy for the Range of Regiment as a conditional hire. You need to pass ranger school before you are allowed to come serve and Range Regiment. And during the board that I said, that's one of my weaknesses. I don't I'm not coming in here with a ranger tab. I'm not coming in here with a deployment patch. I'm coming in here just as myself and my expertise knowledge with logistics. That's really

I graduate or I RASP.

Was done in September, and then I get a slot in December to go to.

Seventy fifth pre Ranger course.

So that's fun. By the way, what was that the seventy fifth pre Ranger course. It's lots of fun.

It's amazing. It's so fun.

I in all all jokes aside it was.

It was great. Living in the barracks for like three extra days. Having to shave my head.

Earlier, that wasn't fun. But I show up to for betting with my little Duffel bags and all my paperwork, and they're like, and I shaved my head the day before. I show up in the one of the and you're just standing in line with all your things and you're all excited and nervous. And then one of the NCOs comes over and he's like Richard Gibbons.

I'm like Roger Sergeant.

He's like, your blood work's wrong, and I was like what, And so they're like, yeah, we're gonna have to drop you from this pre Ranger course unless you can get your blood work done. So I like grab my paperwork. I go to the on Post hospital and I I try my darnis to get that blood work done on Sunday, but it didn't happen.

So I have to wait three more weeks.

And then I go through the pre Ranger course and so I shaved my head three weeks early.

But oh wow, I got to hang out for being for three weeks.

Come on, you know, and it's a great place. So yeah, wonderful, but pre Ranger was awesome.

Any if anyone is trying to go to Ranger School, go to a pre ranger course.

Most installations offer them.

But if you can't get an a TAR slot to seventy fifth sert, you will be successful. At Ranger School. They teach you and prepare you so well. You have to sleep in the field a few extra days. You're like being pushed and learning everything. But it's it was so awesome. And one of I think one of the best things coming out of cert and going right into Ranger School was all the dudes that I just went through SIRT with went with me to Ranger School and

Ranger woman battle buddy with me.

We were both in our thirties hanging out with a bunch of eighteen twenty year olds, so it was it was very funny.

And I should point out I know that you know this, Haley, but just there's maybe young women or young men watching this thinking about becoming a ranger. If you're an officer, you have to go and be ranger tabbed before you can serve in the Ranger Regiment. If you're enlisted, you will go to RASP one and serve some time in the Ranger Regiment a couple of years, go to Ranger School, come back and then get a team leader, squad leader position,

Yeah, and that's awesome because like all the guys that.

The other Ranger woman and myself were with like we were all in the same boat kind of. We were all just as excited, like this was our first shot getting to go to Ranger school. So everyone, well my second, everyone was just very excited and having all those Ranger buddies with you going into Ranger school, there's a sense of familiarity. You have like twenty battle buddies going in there with you. You can kind of like like help each other out during like zero day or all that stuff.

Yeah, so pre Ranger you back out at Cold Range too. You just finished with that. Yeah, now you're going back.

Back to the cold range. Yeah. We Uh, we had to do a bunch of landav and one of my I am so bad at land now, but I practiced a bunch and and that's another thing about uh being in range regiment. If you don't know something or if you ask a question, people will like literally stop whatever they are doing and make sure you learn it, you know it well, and that you're confident with it. I remember this first sergeant that I was out like doing

So yeah, Coal.

Range we did a bunch of land nav team team exercises, platoon tactics, squad tactics, all of that. So we became very comfortable with like being in the field carrying that weight, trying to do squad on platoon tactics.

Well, I'm glad you had fun, because my experience was more like a yeah, fuck this place. Yeah, but I mean I'm only semi kidding. I mean, yes, you do warn a ton out there. It's hard, but you weren't.

A lot yeah, And I mean I of course stood out like a sore thumb, being a woman, being like over thirty, So of course there's a lot of pressure on me, and I definitely I leaned on the guys and I made sure I knew everything going into ranger school, because like, I wasn't going to be like a liability of not knowing squad or platoon tactics, and I wanted to be successful.

So it was it was great, that's that's awesome. And so then you get to Ranger School. So we're at twenty twenty, twenty twenty one around this time, and again, did you have any inkling of how many women had graduated Ranger School at this point?

I was the Yeah, it was about one hundred.

I was the one hundred and second woman to graduate Ranger School.

I mean, this is how far back in time I am. I didn't even realize it was that many.

Yeah.

Yeah, well we'll talk about the about the regiment, the good old days a little later. But so going to Ranger School, first week is RAP week. If I recall right, out at Camp Darby doing all the physical events and stuff. So now you're you're up and running, you're doing it, and what going through your mind as they're putting you through your paces?

I was.

Very successful RAP week.

I did the PT test of course, during the pushups, which is what I was most nervous about. The RI when I hit like forty eight, he just kept saying forty eight, forty eight, forty forty eight and then one. But then finally when the timer guy was like five four three, He's like, get out ranger and so I'd sprint away, but rap week. The things that they don't tell you about is how much standing you will be doing.

But uh, yeah, it wasn't that bad.

And I was there in January, so it was freezing, so you're just standing on these little rocks just shivering the entire time.

Yeah, no, I started in January too. It's terrible real and so I think maybe this would be a good point to talk about, like maybe some of the misconceptions that sometimes exist around women going to ranger school and

Absolutely not.

Like, if you know the standards and you train for the standards and to exceed them a bit, like you will be able to pass if you know, you can google the twenty boards, if you learn the twenty boards, that's what you're graded on in ranger school, you'll be able to pass. You just need to show up prepared. The misconceptions and the the the stereotypes that women can't meet standards is to me very laughable because when you go through the gates on day zero, no one cares

No one cared.

People looked at me because I was older and had like people management skills, and they looked at me because I could do an offward in my sleep. Not once did an ri I like say anything or treat me differently because I was a woman, and none of the none of my Ranger buddies did either. So the standards are the standards, and you either pass them or you don't,

So it's to me, it's.

Just people who may have a bruised ego who have never been in those formations, in those schools past Ranger School, been in Ranger Regiment, been in SFAs selection. It's people who have not been at those rooms in those formations, are at the table who are threatened by a woman's success or just think that we are less then, and people will think that and like, I can't change their mind.

Yeah, yeah, I mean some of the vitriol that you know, I see female soldiers get online, it's like pretty over

Else exactly, and like if people did lower the standards, then like the leaders that are in charge of those formations, they wouldn't want to lead those formations.

They wouldn't want to be in charge of range regiment.

Because when when you get a ranger like on target or assigned to like a borrowed manpower thing, you know the quality of a soldier that you're getting, and that is a ranger someone who is an expert at their job, insanely physically fit and will get the job done on like on time and under budget for you. So exactly, it's just people who maybe have a chip on their shoulder and for all the wrong reasons.

So, Darby Phase, you said you're kicking acid pitching op orders officers are usually pretty good at that. How's it as you're getting through like your graded patrols, how's it going? And how are you kind of dealing with like the stress that the what what I think the tough part of ranger school is the day after day long term physical and mental stress that you're under.

Yeah, it was a lot, but it was nothing I couldn't manage.

I'm pretty durable person, pretty sturdy.

Uh.

There were a few movements in Mountain phase. That sucked.

Some guys were crying, but like it wasn't that bad. Everything in ranger school is very manageable if you just have a don't quit attitude. For my graded patrols, I had pl looks every single time, or squad leader looks every single time, and the majority of the time it was the first pl look.

So they would always give me the awkward.

And like I said, I know the afwoard like the back of my hands, and I was able to brief it very well. And because of that, every every upward that was written or like briefed in my platoon, I was the one that wrote it. So every person that had a squad leader look or opportunity to look, I was like, okay, give me the stuff.

I'm going to do your awkward for you.

And then I would We had these like laminated cards with everything, and I was like, here you go, and so they would just read off of that and then their AP board they would get a go check mark on it. So that's one way that I was able to help out the platoon. Uh yeah, and it was great. My I never got a no go. I got goes on every single look. One of My most memorable squadlier or leadership looks was in.

Florida Phase.

I think it was because in ranger school, you do a day mission and then a night mission, and in each mission you have like first shift and second shift leadership looks for.

Whether or not you get to go at that position.

And I was the second shift on the night mission, and I but I had my first leadership look that morning. So I had two looks in the same day. And after the first person went on the night shift, I was like, thank God, we're done. We're gonna go like whatever. I get a chill and the squad I'll carry the schedcoat whatever. But they're like givens and I was like fuck, and I grab all my stuff. I run to the ris and they're like, Okay, you're the pl for this night mission.

It's an ambush. Da da da da dah.

Here's your cor mits go and I got everyone going. I gave my ALFA team leader the fleet and we're walking, but we ended up walking on the wrong road and I was like, hey, we're on the wrong road. We need to cut ninety degrees this way and then get on that road. And we have thirty minutes to do it to like get to the ambush site, get everyone set up.

And we go.

We get to the spot, and normally you're supposed to like set up your like security patrols at like the triangle or whatever. And I was like, everyone just get in a circle, get through sixty drop your rucks, and then I grab three people and like put them on the ambush line or something. It was a shit show, but I met every criteria you'd like to use.

The term hasty near ambush, not the term shit show. Thank you.

Yes, it was a beautiful hasty near ambush and it was great. And everyone was like, what is going on? What are we doing?

Gibbons lost her mind and I was like, it's gonna be.

Okay, guys.

And I got my so thankfully, and it was. It was fun, very memorable.

Speaking about the you know the again, the like long term kind of like stress that your body and in that you're owner psychologically too, I mean that that was the most challenging thing for me, I think, more than any particular event. And like, I'm sorry, but I imagine and I see you seem like you have a smaller

Yeah, it was.

It was interesting and like what a good gauge is is every time you go into the de fact you have to do six chin ups and then say ranger right after you do the Ranger creed. And during Florida like, those chin ups were near impossible for me. I was like, so like my upper body was just so deteriorated and just tired. My legs were fine, but these chin ups. I was like, don't look, guys, these are really embarrassing. But it did take a toll on everyone. I Uh.

There was someone who.

One of my arranger buddies who actually went to range a regimen after me. She uh fractured her ankle, but she was like, I'm not gonna go to the medic because then they'll drop me. So she finished like the last week of Florida phase with a fractured ankle, which is just insane.

But it was.

It was difficult, definitely towards the end, but it was all still manageable. And by that time you've developed a good relationship with the people in your squad. You've showed them that you are a team player and that you're a team asset. You have strong bonds and trust between each other, so like whatever slack that may need to get picked up, they're there to do it as I was, to help out people who needed it.

Also, any other funny Ranger school stories you want to tell before we move on.

Uh yeah, there was the first movement in Florida. Phase I was the RTO. I was the RTO for almost every mission. It was insane. And the RTO has like the radios ammo, just a heavy heavy rocksack.

It's probably like one hundred plus.

Pounds and you count everyone in, like when you're starting the patrol in Florida and I'm there like counting people in, trying to be like really serious, like this is great for the swamps, Like fuck yeah, And then the ri is standing right next to me, and the rucksack was so back heavy.

Like the minute the.

Second person like walks through, I just slow and my feet are like sunk in uh to the mud in the swamp.

I like can't move, And then I just.

Feel myself slowly going back and so the very start of the first swamp mission, I fully submerged backwards make this huge splash. The ri is laughing, Everyone's like, damn, Gibbons is down, and I get up. I'm soaking wet. Luckily I waterproofed the rucksack very well. But yeah, that was that was pretty bad.

It was pretty bad.

And then so January class you would have been graduating towards like the end of February. Yes, what did that feel like when you finally pinned that Ranger tab on?

It was awesome.

It was awesome, much like the graduation hat toss photo. I just envisioned like the entire time of Ranger School and me standing on Victory Pond with my family and my friends, just so excited. My dad pinned my tab. It was awesome, and like you're just you're frail, but your cheeks are fat as shit, Like my skin was wind burned, my lips were chapped, so it looks like, yeah,

It was. It was an awesome day. It was very cool.

So then you go down the road to the regiment and now you got your tab and your scroll and the beret and the whole deal. What's it like showing up at the Ranger Regiment Like this is the big leagues now, right? This is pretty cool?

Yeah, it was. It was awesome.

And I was in the logistics cell first off, and the team of men in the logistics cell are some of the most professional people I've ever worked with.

They are amazing.

They have been in Range Regiment probably their entire life, so they know the Ranger mission like in and out to a tea.

So I learned so much.

It was so overwhelming, and how regiment operates compared to Big Army night and day. So I had to basically relearn everything from the last seven years like in a like week period.

But it was very cool too.

Instead of being like, Okay, I'm planning an NTC mission, where do the porta potties need to go? I'm like planning actual, like real life stuff.

So it was it was.

Very cool being in the room, uh and just having a team of experts. Uh.

It was it was awesome. It was intimidating.

In the first month I was there, I had to brief the entire regimental staff and all the battalion commanders. So I was so nervous, and I like practiced so much like the night before and everything, and I like rehearsed it on the drive to the to the conference room.

But uh, like this makes confidence. So I crushed it.

And that's kind of how I found a lot of success in Range Regiment, just by making sure I knew what I was going to say when I needed to.

Say something, because in.

Range of Regiment, like I said, you're surrounded by the best of the best, and so I needed to prove that, like I'm not just like a strong arranger, but I know logistics in and out.

So it was awesome.

One of the big changes, right, is that the regiments are rapidly deploying unit.

Yes, yeah, so they rotate who deploys when they deploy, and sometimes you're on like a short recall. So that was another very cool problem set. Like my systems and logistics background gotta like got a bit of an exercise there because I was able to plan stuff on it, like a tight turnaround and everything had to just happen just in time for it to be successful.

So that was a very cool problem set.

And you're dealing with like not just hump fies, but like massive pieces of equipment and like helping with planes and everything. One real world mission that I did get to help with wash Sudan, when the Range of Battalion went over there. I was able to help coordinate logistics support for that, and so it was like, Okay, this is game time, Like this is awesome.

But that was also kind of right.

That was that when they a contingency when they had to evacuate the embassy.

Yes, yes, yeah, so I got to help with that, But that was right when I was also getting out of the military, so it was it was chaotic as it is, and then I was like dealing with a bunch of other stuff. But the the logistics power that the Ranger Regiment and used stock have is insane. It's very cool.

I would love to, you know, talk to you a little bit more in depth about Ranger and Special Ops logistics because I've wanted to have like some of the og logistics guys from so com you know, on the show, and I need to make a more of an effort to do that. But those guys and officers like you are the ones that kind of make everything happen and don't really get any you know, credit, or there's not

Yeah, it's all about like the mission you're supporting, the resources available, and like the needs of that mission and who you're supporting it. It all Uh, it's chaotic, but you need to make sure you have all the right people at the table to coordinate that because just like anything, if you're planning a birthday party, if you don't coordinate getting the candles in, like the big surprise or the

So it's just having.

Having contingencies upon contingencies ready to go. And and like you said, like being a logistics officer is a thankless job. If if everything is planned to a t and you did such a good job, like no one cares, you don't get a thank you, But if the porta potties aren't there, you're gonna get yelled at. So it's it's not glamorous, it's not thankful. Like you do it because you like seeing all the pieces line up and it

So it is very cool in.

That way also, and I guess this is where your your System's degree came into handy two, because I mean, I just think back when you're dealing with like hundreds of rangers on the ground doing airfield seizures or operations,

Exactly.

And like one of the great things about special Operations and range regiment like you have experts for everything you just mentioned, Like air you have it like an air and CIC who has done air missions like for the past twenty years. You have your ammotechs who know exactly what is going on and how much AMMO you need for this or that. You know how much you have your food and CIC, your chief warrant officer you have,

Logistics is always like a team, team effort.

And so that that was your next job being the S four down at third Ranger Battalion, which is just across the way from headquarters.

Yeah, it was. It was awesome.

I had a great team, the n C i C for the S four shop Sergeant Queen. He was probably the best person that I could have worked with. Then. He had been in Range Regiment his entire life. He knew Range regiment like like.

He knew it so well.

So I was able to get so much information from him and rely on him and learn from him, because when you're coming in as a captain who never served in Range of Regiment before, you literally know nothing. You know some basics, but like I didn't even know how to set up my radios, and I'm like, certain, Queen, can you want to fuck my radio again?

Like I don't, Can you teach me?

And so they would like they teach you how to do it, and they teach you the right way.

They teach you how to do it the Ranger way, and.

So that I was thankful for cool and I served under the now RCO. I think Colonel Boho is still the RCO. But he was an awesome leader. Loved loved learning from him, and he was very helpful.

The only time that I did.

Encounter some like interpersonal issues was in three seventy five, and I was able to work with Colonel Boho to like figure it out gracefully, and very thankful for him and all the leadership for that.

But it was it was a very cool job.

Yeah, I wanted to ask you a little bit about that because you know, as I mentioned earlier, I'm kind of like a boomer Ranger at this point. I'm an older guy now, and it's hard to describe to somebody who never went through this experience putting the experience that you had. But like, the Ranger Regiment is very much a male oriented organization. It is in many ways, it's

You couldn't have said it better a male utopia of like like testosterone workouts, red bull all that.

It's so funny.

But what was interesting was in the regimental logistic cell and in three seven five there were no women locker rooms. No one thought to make a woman locker room when they were building those buildings.

And so I, like I showed up and.

The both teams they built women's locker rooms for me. And it just goes to show that, like, sure it may be a male utopia, I may not be a male, I'm a woman, but they don't care. I'm still a member of the team and they're gonna treat me like with as much respect as they would a dude.

And it meant a lot to me.

They like made me this little locker room thing and made sure I was like good to go. So it was very very kind, and it just goes to show that like on the outside it's a male utopia and everything, but like when you're in it, like they just saw me as like, Okay, we have a team member, she's kind of different. Will adjust for her needs, but like continue mission. Like it wasn't anything crazy. I I didn't act any different than I have or did. I didn't

I didn't try to do like all this Copenhagen and the lower lip yeah yeah.

No, absolutely not. I had my uh hair nice and neat. I would have my little lip gloss on. I would look good. I I was professional uh and.

And I showed up as myself because if if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to be successful there.

If I was trying to be a bro and.

Like snagging a zin from a guy, like it wouldn't it's not who I am, and I would be like living alive basically, and I wouldn't be able to be like truly successful.

And I was.

It was.

It was great.

Everyone everyone treated me with dignity.

And respect.

It was.

It was very cool to see.

Like one instance and I can pinpoint then visual and the time and place that it wasn't okay behavior.

But other than that, like every NCO treated me with respect.

They were they were stoked to see a woman. They were welcoming. When Colonel Bobo left and then the new brigade or battalion commander came in. He just shows up at like one of the change of command planning meetings and he sees me, I'm like sitting there like typing my notes or whatever, and he like double takes.

He's like, oh, there's one thing changed here.

Yeah.

It was really funny, but uh, it was. It was great. As long as you show up as yourself, you'll be successful.

Like, don't try to don't try to be like the bro version of you to get some dude's approval who you don't need, because like, we belong in these spaces and they will.

They will make the space at the table for you.

They will make you the the locker rooms because people in the units, in those formations, they respect you.

If you can meet the standards, whether you're a male or a woman.

Yeah, I was gonna say you can do pt and like that's the kind of thing that gets you respect in the Range of regiment. It's like it values strength and endurance.

Right, yeah, absolutely, And like, like I said, I'll never be the smartest person in the room, but I can run just as well as most of the guys, and I can ruck just as well. Can't clean and jerk however much. But also on that note, some of the guys in range regiment are truly freak athletes. They're like clocking in five thirty minute per mile five mile times and I'm like, how is that physically possible? It's insane.

It is so cool to see people just casually.

They're the ones take it out the dip and handing the monster over and just like going at It's so cool.

Yeah. That's also being you know, twenty one years old helps at that point. Yes, the one incident that did happen that you know, yeah, get resolved. Are you okay talking about that at all?

Yeah?

It was.

It was one of my peers actually, and they're just sexist through and through. I experienced bad things with them previously at another institution, and they just were sexist and they they may have not liked that I wasn't friendly with them or something.

But I was like, this is becoming a toxic workplace.

And at the time, I was going through some like other personal stuff outside of my day job, and I was just like in a really bad space. But I recognized the poor treatment and behavior. I knew I didn't deserve it, and so I was able to address it. And I don't want to say resolved, because he still is a sexist person, but like.

We were able to work it out right.

I mean, I'd be interested to again if you're okay talking about it, Like, how was the situation resolved and how did you address it with your chain of command?

Yeah?

Absolutely.

I picked up the phone when I like was at my breaking point. I picked up the phone and I called our battalion XO and I was like, hey, sir, this is happening and it's not okay. And he was like whoa Heley, Yeah, that is absolutely not okay. Would you be willing to talk to Colonel Boho about it? I'm think absolutely, sir. So I go and I have an office call with Colonel Boho. He hears what I have to say and he's like, Yep, this isn't this isn't okay, And he talked with the individual, and the

And I was, I want to say, like the third woman to be.

In three seventy five, because there was a platoon leader before me and then a meadow before me, and.

They've had some issues. But at the end of the day, it's also.

The army, and the army will be the Army, whether you're in Ranger Regiment, Special Forces or to too Striker Regade. So there's assholes everywhere. And I wouldn't pin that interaction on Ranger Regiment, just that individual.

Yeah, And I was going to say, I think it is a positive thing that the institution the regiment addressed it immediately like that, because, as you say, there's always going to be assholes out there. You just hope that the organization does the right thing when they find out about it, right.

Yeah, absolutely, And like I'm I'm no dummy.

I know that I was like one of two one of the three women in range of regiment at the time, so everyone knew everything that I was doing. The RCO at the time knew everything that I was doing. And so when my like issue at three seven five happened, is like, of course he heard and everything was handled. Wonderful.

Leadership was very respectful.

They were able to help me work through everything, and regiment as a whole, like ten out of ten professional organization.

Just the one guy kind of.

Said, yeah, excuse me, so I kind of winding down your time as a S four, What is it that you're thinking about doing next at this point in your life?

Yeah, so I I was at another decision point in my life. I kind of touched on. I was going through some personal stuff again.

I needed help.

I was definitely going through some bout of depression or anxiety.

I didn't really know what it was, but I went and got help.

I was I needed to talk to like a therapist or something, and I was like, I think I just need a career change. And that's when I recognized. I was like, I don't love the Army anymore. I am in one of the most elite units. I am one of seven women to ever do so, but I don't love it. So I was like, this is a good sign. I am at peace with the decision. It's time to get out. So I for the second time, dropped my refrad packet and was looking into the tech industry. I used break Line.

They are a really.

Great organization for veterans, women, people of color who are looking for like a career change into the tech industry, and they help a lot with like elevator speech or pitches, resume help and everything.

So I was able to use them and apply for some jobs.

But the big ego hit is when you're on an interview call with like a tech startup who does like some hybrid car, AI driving car or whatever, and you're telling them, yeah, I went to Range Regiment and they just like they're like, way, they don't even look at you. They're looking at a second screen, and you're like, dang, yeah,

I know it like the back of my hands.

So I.

Got a job at a.

Small defense tech startup because of a guy who I served with in range Regiment. So it's using your network having those that I like thought about back in West Point, and it was a I didn't love the job. It uh wasn't wasn't a good fit. And I now work at a bigger tech company in just like the normal tech industry. And again I work with like the majority of the guys on my team are veterans, so we

But it's uh, it's great.

And so if anyone's like looking to get into the tech industry, like, find a little sliver of commonality you may have within.

It and then just exploit that the best you can.

But it was a pretty easy transition from army into tech, and uh, I've been very thankful for the people who have helped me along the way.

It's been. It's been awesome.

What do you do more specifically in the tech industry, first defense tech and now wider technology. Is it back to logistics or is it more management.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with logistics besides creative problem solving, and like, thank goodness for my logistics background because I feel like it has helped me become like a Swiss Army knife, like being able to solve any problem just by getting the right people to attack it. At the first tech startup, I was a customer success person, so it's like, after the tech is sold, you go make sure that they use it and that they renew

It was interesting, short lived though, and now.

I do a go to market strategy for a big tech firm, so again it's a it's definitely a lot of problem solving. It's interpersonal skills, bringing together outside partners and like coming up with a creative solution to I mean, at the end of the day, get more money for the company. But building those relationships so that like they trust our tech, they trust who we are and how we we help them get more money. So it's it's a very cool job.

And my team is just it.

It's great. I have like some pjs, a j TAC, like a bunch of cool people and we're just kind of like the veteran crew just like getting shit done.

It's very cool.

Yeah, it's great. And you also started this thing with your friend from point I think Jasmine, Yeah, it was.

It was interesting when I was at that first tech startup, I was like is this it is this what people do just like work their nine to five and like that's it.

So there was like a big.

Like void of like purpose helping others and like a greater mission almost. And so Jasmine, who's also getting out of the army she worked.

For used to Sock.

She was like the aide de camp to the deputy commander there, so she's been in and out of that community quite frequently as well. We decided to start Serve SRV because the service was what was lacking in our life, and it's just kind of how we frame it. It's like what you do, it's how you fill your cup. It's how you help others, It's how you help yourself. How do you serve your community, how do you serve you?

It's very cool and because after the Army.

I like just decided to finally become public in social media, even though every cell in my body is like, don't do it, Hayley, don't do it.

We finally did it.

But it's been awesome because the amount of people who reach out to us and they're like, WHOA, I didn't know women could be rangers either, Oh, women can go to a ranger school. And it's it's just very cool that we can help kind of be the change that we wanted to see in the world, to be the person that we probably needed back when we were lieutenants.

But it's been awesome.

And one of the one of the really cool parts about Serve is all these women who are trying to like go to s fas training up for ranger school. They have these spots they're doing it. They're like asking us for help. There's a woman going to buds here shortly and she's gonna crush it.

She's like six foot tall, jacked. She's awesome.

It's just very cool to like be in a community of people like like chasing greatness almost so it's awesome sharing the dream.

Where where can people go to find Serve.

We have a website team dash serve dot org and then we also have an Instagram and TikTok team or Serve dot ing on both cool sr dot ing and.

Uh, you know the other thing I wanted to ask you about, you stay continue to stay quite active. I see on your Instagram, you know, training for an ultra marathon and you're running twelve miles a day and all this, Like I'm like, yeah, this this girl's crazy. But but you enjoy you love it, don't you?

I do. I loved the person that I was when I was training up for regimental selection. I loved having that like that end goal looming over me and like something to chase after. And now that I'm a civilian and I don't have like a selection train up for I'm like trying to channel that energy into other athletic endeavors.

So fingers crossed.

You know, this is totally just a personal observation and some may agree or disagree, but I think that like when rangers leave the regiment and they become civilians, they there's like one of two or there's two ways you can go in, both of which are bad. One is to completely abandon your identity as a ranger and forget about it. The other is to not change and being able to you know, let go of some of that

I really feel like, yeah, absolutely, and like I was, I was going through a weird, a weird version of myself when I forgot like what I thrived on for the last ten years, Like I was sleeping in, I wasn't working out, I wasn't like being on my shit.

And luckily, like my husband, he's great, He's like, maybe you should do this, and I'm like, no, I'm not going to do it.

And then I'm like, yeah, actually I will do it.

So it's just like having a good support system who knows like who you are and.

What you need is so crucial when you're out of the army.

But absolutely and like there's the version of me that's hg Lead the way, army ranger whatever. But then there's also Hayley who's just like super girly into fashion, like bougie is all get out. So it's it's very fun to kind of let those two personalities collide, especially uh in like the social media eye of literally anyone who looks at my page.

So it's it's it makes some people's heads explode, right because they can't like reconcile the two identities, you know, and it's to a different in a different way. I think it's true with like men too, Like if you were a ranger and you were this tough guy, don't think that you can't go to college and get a graduate degree. Like there's nothing other than a mental barrier.

Exactly, Like you can staff me up right next to you and they're like, well, he's definitely the ranger and no one would think I ever like let alone apply to the be.

In the army or whatever.

It's it's very cool to see the the dimension of people and the like the uniqueness that the the dedication, the excellence that range a regiment demands. And it's also very cool to see what people do after it, kind of like you said, whether they like fully go into range your mode as civilian or like go down a different path.

It's it's very interesting to see.

So as we wrap up, any final lessons learned or pearls of wisdom or anything else you'd like to mention.

Yeah, I mean just being yourself in whatever environment you find yourself in. Throughout, like my entire Army career, there's always been like a huge setback and then just a gritty head down mode and then like a big success. So like, no matter where you are in life, just just keep going and staying true to yourself will make sure that you are not just successful when you achieve that goal, but that you're happy and just organizing that and that you do belong even if you don't look

Like to the left and right.

So showing up authentically as yourself is just as important as meeting the standards and like achieving that.

Goal and everything like that.

Where can people find you if they're looking for Haley on the internet professionally with Serve or with your IG or whatever else you want to plug?

Yeah, absolutely so both Serve and my pages. We have an Instagram and a TikTok. Serve is SRV dot i G and then my stuff is HG Lead the Way, HG Lead the Ways on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. So very excited and we're very active on both pages. So if you have any questions or need help with anything, shoot us a DM and we'll help you with that.

It's super cool. Well, thank you Hailey for doing this interview. You're our first tabbed and scrolled ranger woman on the show. And I'll be honest, I asked you to come on the show because of the scroll, not the tab That's just how that's how it is. But bid, seriously, thank you for doing this.

It has been great of course, and you know, I hope I'm not the last. So yeah, it's just great.

It's an honor to be able to speak with you, to talk about my what I've done, and to to Yeah, I just learn a little bit more about everything.

So it's been awesome.

Yeah, that's great, and I hope a lot of the young people out there who are thinking about joining the Ranger Regiment see this and take something away from it. So yeah, thank you again, Haley and all the rest of you folks out there. We will see you next week. Thank you. Hey, guys, I want to tell all of you today about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both the Teamhouse podcast, the eyes On podcast, and the high Side News outlet, which I run with Sean Naylor.

Checking it out.

The website for it is Teamhouse Podcast, dot kit dot com, slash Join, Teamhouse Podcast dot kit dot com slash Join. You go there and you enter into your email list or you enter your email into the little thing on the website and you're good to go. And that'll be it. So we really appreciate your support and I hope you'll