From Stryker Warfare to YouTube (Task & Purpose) | Chris Cappy | Ep. 303

Hey guys, it's Jack.

I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already to support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just five dollars a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes add free.

And we're happy to have you here in studio tonight. Thanks for having me. Jack excited to be here. Thank you.

Dave. This is unstoked, so glad that you're in the studio with us too. Yes, there's something about being there in person.

That's nice. It's the booze that is, that's the part of it.

In the cigards. Usually on webcam, I have to hide it. I have to have it in like a juice box, but we all know what's in there.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you don't hide it, you get an article about you in New York Times talking about how debotrous you are.

So uh, you went from being a US Army infantryman to being a fairly prolific YouTuber.

Let's talk about this whole.

Journey kind of like where it begins and where you are today. Yes, literally start Let's start at the beginning, like where did you grow up and what drove you towards the Army. I grew up on Long Island, not far from here, like an hour out east.

And I don't want to say I grew up sheltered, but I did grow up a little bit sheltered, and I felt very fortunate the life that I had on around. And I needed discipline, let's say, like I needed a little bit of edge. I was going to Originally, I was going to art school in New York City, and when I was there, it just felt like I wasn't getting what I needed out of it.

It wasn't challenging me.

And also I did I always I loved telling stories, but I felt kind of like I had no stories to tell. I had no nothing that I was really passionate about.

You're a young guy.

Yeah, it was like nineteen years old and hadn't really like it sounds terrible to say, but I hadn't been tested, and I felt like I needed to be tested to find out who who I am.

This was in two thousand and seven.

So I'm in New York City learning about cameras and it's just feeling kind of empty. And I'm sitting there in my dorm room like playing back the nine to eleven footage over and over again and kind of getting angry about it.

And I'd grown up a very conservative person.

My dad, we'd always listen to talk radio when we're driving through the traffic on Long Island, and that traffic is killer, so there's a lot of time to kill when you're listening to Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, and so I'm getting all these my dad and everyone is like very pro the Iraq invasion, and so I kind of felt like when I'm in this dorm room. I'm telling my buddies, like the.

War in Iraq. I'm getting drunken the wart me tell you about the war in Iraq. It's a good thing.

We're not there for oil, and if we are, what else is worth dying for. These art school kids are looking at me like freaking out. Yeah, They're like I'm trying to paint, man, Like what are you talking about? They think I'm crazy, and I what I am. But one of them calls me out on my bullshit. And I don't know if this has ever happened to you when like someone says something to you that you know is true and you're.

Like, oh, I've been married twice, yes, yes, okay, yeah, and like you don't you don't say yeah, you're right, honey, you now that.

No, You're like, okay.

So, as I'm on one of my tirades about how the war in Iraq is a good thing, this one German foreign exchange student at art school who's also there for film tells me, if you believe in the war in Iraq so much, why are you here at art school? Why don't you enlist and go fight over there? And I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about? Why would I do that? That's that's stupid. I don't need to do that. But then I, like, I actually look

Put myself on the line. So I should you not?

Like the next week, I hit up a recruiter and I ask him, like, what's the process for going in and enlisting?

How?

What would that look like? And that that's what started me on that path with someone.

What did the German students say when he found out that you had started.

On that path?

So I, it wasn't it wasn't like it's interesting you asked that, because it's It wasn't so much that I wanted that he needed like his validation, or like cared so much about what he thought. It was more like I I never actually went back to him and like told you so, which in hindsight, I probably should have. I would have been a satisfying like, but I don't know. I never went back to.

To settle that score.

Yeah, so.

You enlisted guard and and how were you balancing that with school or would you pull a lot of school out?

Did that work for you?

So I was I was certain that I was going to hate the military. I was, like, I heard all those stories. There's a lot of mis you think every day is like boot camp exactly. I went into it thinking, for sure, this is not going to be something that I like or I'm gonna I was worried that I was going to commit to like eight years active duty and end up like getting dishonorably discharged because I hated

And so I.

Did National Guard Infantry with the plan of if after boot camp, if I if this seems right, then like I'll just deploy, do my time in Iraq, get back and that'll be like I feel like, because me finish the point type the story of what I was saying earlier, which is that like I felt like I was very fortunate that what this country gave me and whether really at the end of the day, whether the war in Iraq was right or wrong, I wanted to kind of do my part when the country asked something of us,

And so let me ask you though, because what was the New York Guard?

What was you were infantry? Was that striker or was it.

The New York Guard is light infant trade there. I was an Alpha company in Lexington. There's very few infantry units in the National Guard, right, No, there's actually a lot. The Reserve has no combat on this, right yeah, the National Guard has.

That's that's why I went Guard.

Was because when I went to the reserves, they were like, we have logistics, we have am I, which are great jobs. In hindsight, I wish I'd done one of those cool ones like that. But only eleven Bravo units are in the Guard. So that's how I ended up switching from the New York unit is a long history, great unit there.

This was very personal for them.

Yeah, but an incredible unit there. And and also the Pennsylvania unit was like I just lucked out that I happened to be what I what I thought were good Guard units.

So was because for people, why not know the and this is how it used to be and you can correct me if it's changed.

Is that there was eleven Bravo which was.

Line uh standard infantry, eleven Charlies which were the mortars, and eleven Mics which were the mechanized right, mechanized infantry, which I guess you learned how to work the systems and get on and off a vehicle when you went to the striker unit were they were they eleven mics or were the eleven Bravos or what?

What was that?

When I was getting in, they had switched it to where it's just eleven bros.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, but yeah, they used to have eleven hotel, which I think was toe right. They still have eleven Charlie more, but yeah, it was just they kind of collipt which I don't know if they're now changing that and going back to.

Designators.

So you're crazy ass the size to jump on this deployment with the Pennsylvania National Guard because you want to.

Get out the door.

Uh So, I mean this it's also a bit of a mystery to me too. I mean, what's it like kind of changing states in the National Guard. Is it really just like a military transfer and you go over there and you start training with the unit and begin that process.

It was.

It was kind of surreal and it all seems like some someone else's life now. But it went from just yeah, you're in the New York Guard and then you get kind of title ten as it orders, where Okay, you're on active, you got to be here at this time, at this date. And then so we went to Camp Shelby for MOBOP, which is like three models of training with the get familiarized with the strikers, and we do like in the box where you're Camp Shelby was was terrible,

Yeah, you're gonna be up in the bell tower reciting verses from the Bible.

Was there a point to the videos or was it just other conceived moto session or was it more like attacks overview of like this is how they're going to hit you.

Don't fall for this, I do, dave.

I guarantee you that was the commander's intent, like, hey.

Let's show these videos so that again let's and give them analysis and kind of teach them to not get blown up and how.

To avoid this.

I guarantee you that was some command captain's probably good idea. And if if the class was taught by perun this is like great YouTuber if he if he did the rundown of that PowerPoint briefing, we would have gotten something out of it.

Instead, it was some E four that could give a ship.

Yeah exactly.

He's like, he's like, yo, it was crazy, right, yeah, holy shit.

And then you learn about are you so what rank are you when you? Did you get credits for your school and stuff like that.

No, it was the lowest ranking, youngest guy in my company. He was nineteen years old when I got to mobile.

I was fuzzy. I think maybe any one And.

Yeah, sitting there just thinking I've made the biggest mistake of my life.

I'm going to get.

Killed, like.

And I'll share this just because you know. I So the whole point of the reason why I make content about the military is I want there was, like I wish that as when I was an infantryman, when I was a young guy, Like I wish that there was a resource out there for me to learn about the geopolitics of these conflicts that were asked to go and maybe die in, and like the weapons systems an interesting entertaining way to learn about these things. And because I

It's so different than like when I joined the military, and certainly when Dave joined the military.

Back when we had cavalry.

You go you go to you go to like borders, buy a book and it was like a Vietnam memoir.

I mean there's just like no information really available. Yeah, yeah, and you got.

Remember like dudes there in the barracks reading like a book that some guy who had been deployed, like his experience and everyone's sharing it. But there's now with the way YouTube and like it has changed everything, you can really kind of teach people things. And so it was so scary for me during MOBIP that I literally wanted to quit. I went to my chaplain and I said, I was like, and this is hard for me to admit, but I told him, I said, I can't do this.

Send me home.

I shouldn't be here, like I'm going to quit because I'm terrified. I feel like I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna die. And he, the chaplain said to me, he was like, take a breath. I you know, if you want, I can get you out. I can send you back home, but I want you to take one day, go back home or go back to the barracks.

Think about it.

And if tomorrow you feel the same way, I will start the paperwork and we will get you out of here. And like you won't You're not gonna be dishonorably discharged, like you're just gonna go back home.

We'll get for you know, medical or whatever. Yeah, that was big of him to do. That really was this dude changed my life. And I said okay, and he said, listen, I if I don't see you again, like I want you to know, I think you're gonna do this deployment, and I think you're gonna be You're gonna be happy that you did, and you're gonna be okay, for better or worse like this is, I think you're going to

Yeah, I can do I don't want the shame of not being not doing it. And so I feel like a lot of people probably have would for reasonable reasons, but have trouble admitting that, Like you have those second thoughts, and because a lot of people right now I'm sure are commenting like you pussy, and uh.

You know those are those are real thoughts. But then you're a real human being with real fears.

Yeah, that are not illogical or irrational.

And and and there there's there's something inspiring about somebody who had those thoughts and still did it, as opposed to somebody who was.

Just your your pals an art school. They're sitting on the couch eating grito's.

Well, yeah, yeah, out of curiosity. Did your family have any history of service? What did your parents think about this? Like drastic detour you took.

They begged me not to go. They begged me after all the especially I love my family.

They're they're very like raw rah Iraq.

But when I said I was going to go, they're like, well, no, not it changes, yeah, not you like and they and they said wait until you're an officer. Once you're an officer, then go in and it'll be better. And they're right, yeah, that would have been better. But no, but my grandfather he was twenty fifth sorry second I date artilleryman in the Korean War and always have so much respect for my grandfather and what he did. I mean, and he was drafted into it. But that was the service that

Yeah. Yeah, but they but they they were not happy.

No, no, no, they wanted they they they and they wanted me to serve in a different way. Yeah, which and I believe in that that there's a million ways to serve your country. It's just for me specifically, the way I needed to be of service was that way.

And you have to do that.

I mean, if that's what you think about, you don't want to get to thirty and have ash in your mouth about I wish I would have.

That was a thought going through my mind. And I feel like a lot of my life is based around like either way, it's gonna suck, right, no matter what path you go down. But that, to me was the type of suck that that I could live with.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, And I mean, I don't know how you feel about it in like retrospect, but when I look back on it, yeah, they're good and bad for sure. But like you think that kid that had that dream that they were going to be an astronaut, I kind of got to do that.

Yeah, you know, So no regrets, And it's easy. I think it's easy to talk shit about your time in the military when you did it.

You know, when you did it, like it's like I get it. And then you know you can look at kids and go, I fuck, I don't do it. But if they have that same drive. Why would you discourage that because you did it and you know, and I can't.

I mean, look, I'd probably have a family and and be you know happy that way too, But I can't imagine what my life would have been without the military.

To me, it gave me a sense of community and a sense of principles and values to try to not not been successful in doing it all the time, but like as really yes, yeah, and having that for me was needed. I don't know about you guys, but like there were a ton of times where they're paying me to do this.

I'm gonna get to go in.

A Chinook, a Blackhawk, this, this Striker is ours?

Where this is just for our squad? Are you kidding me?

Those moments, I like, so shoot us.

Forward to to the deployment and you know, working with the Strikers. I mean those vehicles were relatively new at that time.

What did you think of them?

I know, okay, so for the purposes of counterinsurgency coin operations, I thought the Strikers were amazing. And also from what I heard about the dudes that had Bradley's that for our purpose, Like, I don't know if i'd want to be in Ukraine.

Deployed with a Striker necessarily.

I mean I've heard good things there too as well, but for my purposes, yeah, okay, there were problems. The problems were the bottom of the vehicle was like a thin sheet of aluminum for armor on the bottom, and underneath that is the gas line. And so what we did was we laid down in large and also the hydraulic lines for the rear door.

My pin.

Now, yeah, so you don't want to get out there, do you, because I don't know if you were thinking, well, if the vehicle gets blown up, you might actually we want to get out.

Of it real quick.

Can you for the viewers from mind, I know, can you tell us what a striker is totally?

A striker is an eight wheeled not an infantry fighting vehicle, but they call it an armored fighter fighting vehicle or an interim fighting vehicle. So it's got a ramp in the back that goes down and you can fit between eight to eleven guys, depending on how comfortable you are with like sitting on each other's laps, so you could we at one point we had thirteen people in the back when we had a general come with us.

But it's a fast moving goes up.

To like I believe, eighty kilometers per hour, and it's got either a fifty caln on top or a Mark nineteen okay. And really the thing that sets it apart from like the Russian BTR is it's suite of sensors and communications devices.

So the striker.

Has the Blue Force Blue Tracker, which this thing was crazy when they're selling it to me. It's got it's basically well it's probably not that crazy.

Now, but stuff like flear and and even pluggers like.

It because it's to be encrypted. It's all got to be encrypted.

Is it's so having everyone has GPS in their on their phone in their pocket, but but to have a GPS that is safe from being hacked into, and you can see where your friendly vehicles are on a map in Iraq, like there's the satellite systems are supporting all that that was crazy. And you've got comms where you can push to you can talk to your battalion headquarters and they can feed you in live intelligence as they're

Yeah, nuts, that's right. And Falcony was amazing at the time.

FLEAR two is nuts because you can see your driver can see what the gunner can see. You could switch between views like and it's a remote control weapons system so it's got three sixty you know, just with a joystick and it's stabilized. So yeah, it's And we were the first guard unit to get strikers and we had full spectrum, so we were running our whole AO.

We did everything from.

Patrols to guard duty to you know, we we ran that that little piece of Route Tampa based.

Like key leader engagements all that kind of stuff.

So, uh, Fleer is forward looking IR Infra red, which it's the heat signatures and you can buy it off the shelf now, but back in the day, like it was magic.

It was like, this is incredible.

You know you can see, you know, the silhouettes of the people in front of you.

Yeah, it's amazing.

I don't know if you guys ever, I'm sure you've probably seen some tech that you're like, wait, we had, we can do that. There was the one thing that bugged me out with FLEAR was we also had I don't know if you guys ever had.

This eagle eye. We called it the sphere.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so everyone in while we rotate through operating the Eagle Eye, and it's this like three hundred thousand dollars insanely high fidelity thermal camera that's hoisted up excuse me, like I don't know, two hundred feet in the air or whatever, and then you can see out three kilometers or something like that.

There were blimps, but this is it's on a telescoping Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's so big, like a tent pole almost.

That was like a periscope in a way.

Yes, yeah, And it's up two hundred feet in the air or whatever, and we could and you could see out all the way down Route Tampa and every night you'd see dudes run out try to plant an ied out on the highway and then so you'd spin up QRF. But that was I'm like, wait a second, if we have these abilities, how long until this stuff like comes back home or like our government can we.

Can do this?

Yeah?

Because you're looking into people's houses kilometers away. And as a nineteen year old back in two thousand and eight, I was like, this is magic, Like you said, it's yeah.

It's a comment on how the technology diffuses and how quickly that happens. That back in those days, you know, we had this huge advantage because we were the only ones that had night vision, the only ones.

Who had thermals.

Once in a while you might pick up like some you know, like civilian bought version of night vision that you know, came out of a Cabela's catalog or something like that, but really we owned the night right, and I think for Ukraine and some of these other conflicts today that's no longer true.

I talk about this a lot of times because this fascinates me, this idea of how do we get continue overmatch at night. And it's interesting what you see them doing with the XM seven and with the FWS or the XM one fifty seven, where they're now moving to where you're no longer using a Peck fifteen laser pointer. Everything is now thermal or piped into your optic so we no longer have to hopefully give away our position at.

Least with the Peck I mean, is that networked with the other guys in the unit or is it just to help that one soldier with his marksmanship.

So no one is using peck fifteens anymore, is the way?

So we still, I think, have overmatch at night, but it's not the same anymore.

That's not what it was. You're not going to have the IR strobe on your helmet, like yeah, yeah, yes.

Or I used to walk around all the time with I had the PVS fourteens, which I see now what dudes are using with the white phosphorus and everything incredible. Whoa yeah, yeah, I'm walking around like falling into ditches and like almost shooting at cows because I can't see like three hundred meters ahead of me.

So let me catch it real quick.

So when we're talking about Pack fift team, we're talking about, you know, a laser pointer, but it's infrared, so you have to be wearing night vision in order to see it. So when you're rolling up on a target and their dude standing out, they have like fourteen lasers on them and they have no idea. It's amazing. But now night vision is cheap. It's a couple hundred bucks if that sometimes,

We just when we had we just walked around like with impunity.

Yeah.

And I always the way I feel about it is like we.

I was so lucky in this war because I didn't have to worry about airstrikes. I didn't have to worry about shooting at dudes with body armor.

Like it's just the it was on another level.

It was yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And a lot of times I would say, I'm like these guys, they're they're cowards. They're hitting us with IDs and then they're running away. They're not standing and fighting.

Yeah.

And one of my squad.

Mates said to me, he was like, dude, they're not Are we cowards for dropping bombs from forty thousand feet in the sky on them and not standing in the fight? Are No, They're they're smart. Yeah, Like, don't underestimate the anime. And when he said that, it like, like, oh, that's.

Kind of happen. I fought the British a lot, you know, yeah, exactly right. Yeah, So.

Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, you know, talking about thermal makes me think of like kill TV. You know when you're watching like I don't know if you ever got into like a talk or a jock and we're able to watch like the AC one thirties or the A tens out there, and you know, seeing bad guys moving out out through a field thinking that they're completely you know, imper visible, invisible as they're like crawling along the ground or whatever, and it's like, we see you.

So I called in an air strike one time, okay, or helped called in an air strike one time at a at our fob. So, I lived on a little joint JSS Joint Security station or cop combat outpost right outside Camp Toadgy. It's about the size of a football field. There's six guard towers around it, surrounded by tea walls, about forty Americans one hundred Iraqi police on it. And one night, well, I'm operating the Eagle Eye and I see guys out digging about two hundred meters away from us.

Of these dudes up.

So you've mentioned I want to get into you like you're moving to the cop because that's that's a unique experience. But I want you to tell us a little bit about Route Tampa, Like what what does that mean and.

What's the big deal.

Yeah, there's this popular meme about Rick and Morty where Rick asks this little robot for butter and the robot comes over and just gives him butter for his pancakes. And he's like, is this my purpose in life? And Rick is like, yeah, it is, and so my purpose in life, our whole unit's entire purpose, and why the US government spent whatever millions of dollars to keep us on Route Tampa is because that's the main supply route

We were cool with Kuwait, but not so much with Turkey in regards to the war.

Yeah.

With the supplies, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, because it's coming from the south. I'm guessing all the like the Rippets, because we're running on Rippets, running.

On Copenhagen, and Rippets was the energy drink out there, and it was everywhere.

And there's a lot of warnings on the back of that, although worth every year that it took off my life, Yeah, slammed. But so yeah, it's like a monster if you injected some cocaine into it.

Yeah.

Did you ever try a wild tiger? No? Oh man, that's another one.

It's uh actually I wear the t shirts sometimes, but it's another energy drink in Iraq and uh on it is a tiger and it's like jumping off like and the little wine on it. It's total activation. And I'm pretty sure there's stuff in there that's like illegal in the United States, you know, if we were to definitely yeah, yeah, yes, there are health codes being broken.

So one of the challenging things about Route Tampa, like you said, it was the main road and for suplies and stuff, so you didn't just have like infantry on there like doing moved to contact. You had truck drivers out there, you had maintenance people out there, and they would get these massive firefights that would get hit by IDs vb IDs like.

It was a very dangerous road a lot.

So doing full spectrum operations, it was you know, three three days a week you're doing QRF, so you're responding to when they get hit. And that was one of the great things about the Strikers compared to the Bradley is they can roll out fast and there's not as much maintenance and the tracks aren't getting thrown as much, not as much.

Wear and tear on them.

So it was great for quick respond quick reaction force. And so a lot of our missions were a logistical train or logistical movement would get a convoy would get hit by an I D and then we would go out and respond, and that that's how so my company lost.

We had one k I.

A and that's that's how it happened. I wasn't on the mission that ended up with that KIA, but there was a response to to an I D and that was their TTPs. Basically, the enemy would hit the soft targets, they would hit the Iraqi police, the Iraqi Army, they would hit the logistical convoys. And a lot of our job was also route clearance. So we're just driving up and down that stretch.

Yeah, looking for like kind of the old Polish mind sweeper type of thing, right, like route clearance, looking for IDs by running over them.

And guess guess who is the guy that the Captain's like hey, go kick that can to see what that is. It's a hotspot in my thermal. The lowest ranking, youngest guy is the guy that they send out to go kick that that. So a lot of our missions would be the blimp. The blimp with the thermal would spot a hotspot and they would just roll QRF up at three in the morning, go check out that hot spot. And sometimes I would walk right past an ied and my squad leader in front of me spotted it and

For a vehicle, not a person. Well, so we followed the wire, no one was there.

He was probably what we think is that he was waiting for probably the next day. So when it was daylight out, they were probably going to come the next day.

I got I got.

Lucky, so we didn't get hit on that. Just safari out into the hey go what is it called recomby fire?

So let me take a quick break to let folks out there know watching the show. If you'd like to support this podcast, check us out on Patreon.

There's a link down the description.

You get access to all of these episodes and free as well as our sister podcast, eyes On.

With Andy Milburn and Jason Lyons.

And please also go check out We Defied the Lost Chapters of Special Forces History, available for pre order now on Amazon's is My Book My History book that's coming out on December ninth, Go check it out, guys.

I also want to give a shout out to our our Tier one artist, Invader Girl Art over here. Check her out on Instagram, check out on Twitter. I promise you not just the painting. She has prints, she has swag, badass t shirts, she has a lot of stuff.

You will not be disappointed.

And as our resident art experty, we.

Were just we were just all I was asking about that.

Yeah, yeah, but definitely check out Invader Girl Art.

Yeah, Invader Girl Art dot com. Uh So, take us through the rest of that deployment. I mean, you had unfortunately, unfortunately a casualty on that deployment, but I mean what happened after that.

That was very early in the tour.

We had the he was shot in the head and it was pretty instant he returned fire.

He was I mean, he went he the thing that he had two kids.

It was upsetting for the whole unit in the Guard. It's like everyone had been training together, they'd been I believe they went to Kosovo deployment together, like he they'd all known each other in civilian life and for years and years. I was a refill into the unit, backfill. Like my whole squad, fourth Squad heavy Weapons. We were considered like the kind of ragtag spare parts army thrown together guys who had been reclassed from combat engineers and

So my vehicle.

Whenever there was a casualty, we were the ones that would then have to drive them to what was at Level three trauma care that was at the FOB because we had Level one.

So there's only so much you can do there.

So when guys, the first time I saw somebody killed in action was an IED strike that happened right outside the base.

Woke us all up. Boom, shook the whole base.

Then I see them running in dragging this Iraqi police officer. His brains are coming out the back of his head. And our medic who had been deployed before to Ramadi, was like really high speed, great type of medic that just lives for it, is very good at it his job, and he he treated the guy and then they would put him into our vehicle to drive him to the FOB. And I wasn't the CLS guy. That was my buddy, and he would do like they put the tube down

I wasn't a stellar soldier. I wasn't terrible.

I was I was a regular grunt and I wasn't doing the super squirrel missions. I wasn't out, you know, I went on raids and kicked indoors, but it wasn't. I wasn't like SAF. I was the guy guarding saf and I was really there during a weird point of the war where it was the occupation phase. So we're not leading at this point. The whole messaging of coin is out. Petraeus's theories on coin are really sticking, and

So that's the part of the war that I'm.

Really in and I'm not, you know, going out there and mercan dudes left and right. My my experience in Iraq is the occupation and the counter insurgency.

Fase.

So what we're doing is some of the missions are going out and handing out literal bags of one hundred thousand dollars of cash, so we're giving that to.

The Shakes so that they they don't come and kill us. And that was illegal as fun as we're doing, by the way, and.

You weren't the only and actually FBI should be here in ten minutes.

I didn't. Yeah, no, I kept a lot of the money myself. Don't worry that. I think it's legal when I pocketed. It's not like to put it on you or just on your unit, for sure.

But the when Congress authorizes funds for reconstruction, its specifically for that issue. And what happened was that units did exactly what you described, is that they're hanging off shakes like, hey, don't go off for a unit, yeah, my picture go ahead.

I was just gonna say, like my.

Perspective and picture on it as a E two or three that I was mate, uh yeah, two or three. I didn't make specialists until after the tour, so like my perspective, I don't see you.

Or I wish I had eyes into the whole.

They're like they're like, hey, we're going to hit We're gonna hit this house. Yeah, and you're going to do this, and I like have the only thing I see is two feet in front of me. And that's the part of the reason why I love doing what I do. And the YouTube channel is like talking more about four feet in front of me, right, And what you're talking about is like, was that really a good idea?

Was that good or bad?

Because like I can understand the argument that we went in and we disbanded their military and we had maybe good.

In the short term, bad in the long term.

Well, it's just we should have created some opportunities for these people. We go in and we disband their army and we basically we're like, you have no way to make a living. And so, uh, when Iran and the Syrians come in and they say in the Chechen say like, if you fire at the Americans, we'll give you two hundred bucks. That so I'd rather you know, it's messed up because it's a huge waste of money and there's a ton of corruption and fraud that goes into that.

Those shakes they give how much of that? How much did they keep?

Because I saw their houses, Yeah, and I also saw the houses of the people that should have been getting the you know, the farming money.

Indeed. Yeah, And so it's like, I don't know, I don't know, what do you do? Like it's it's it's uh fucked.

I'd like to I'd like for people to have some appreciation of what you guys were going through. Because both theaters had their own flavor, and then different areas had their own flavor and everybody had challenges, but but the challenges were kind of unique sometimes in those areas and Highway one, you know, when you guys are going out, were the where the Iraqi cops rolling with you guys most of the time.

Yes, was almost always at.

So they were were they?

Because that's one of the things is is it's a highway, right it is it is the main highway. So when you're out there, so is the rest of the Iraqet population. Now, vehicle borne I with suicide bombers was a very big thing, and they they had no problem driving right into a convoy convoy and clacking off. So so it's a very it's it's a very stressful situation. You know, obviously probably the cops where you're out of perimeter and they would

Is Is it a threat?

It's it's they're not they're not paying attention to signs to say stay fifty meters back or is it a family and the dudes not just not paying attention and they don't care because they don't like you make up your own rules in Iraqi trafficking right, Yeah, Like it was a it was a very stressful situation. You see a bag on the side of the road, is that an id like you know, it's it's one of those things where that that route, that highway was a nightmare.

Yeah, the base, our base was right on the highway, so between Tampa and the tea wall is ten feet it's right there. It's a form a rocky police station. And there's a bunch of former Baptist government buildings around there that there's all like jade Am strikes into them from the invasion part of the war that you see the whole every building in Mushada is just shot to shit or collapsed roofs.

Tampa, Yeah, Tampa is and we were right at.

Like a junction between Tampa and Tarmia, which led to where the not the Euphrates, what was it?

What's the river? Maybe it is the Euphrates.

The river is about twenty kilometers so about headed towards that way was where our second cop was. So my tour I split between Tampa and then the second cop which.

Was towards I might get it wrong. I think it's the Freddy's River.

So we set up another patrol base in between basically, and this patrol base was, Oh my god, it's like it made it made Mushata look like luxury. Yeah, this patrol base was brand new setup. So we set up the tea walls, were burning our ship out there. We're getting one hot meal a day, which is rice that we cook in a pot, and we're sleeping in a chicken coop that has been gutted, and we've got a bunch of like cots on the ground really roughing it out there.

Yeah, right, Remote operator.

So start to walk us through the conclusion of this deployment and redeployment back home.

I have won that question during there.

So you guys, doing a raid on a house is not something at least in the day. I don't know if it changed, you know, due to the war, but it's not something that you learn in infantry. Aiit right, that's all movement to contact or did you guys do compound type stuff in aiit.

So by the time I went through boot camp in two thousand and eight, they're doing you know, Bawdrill six, they're doing close quarters combat okay, and raids are huge.

Okay, So you guys didn't have to learn there on the.

Ground, not entirely.

No, So when we were in the box during mobile we practiced raids. And you know, because by the time two thousand and eight happens, like post surge, they know what we're going to be doing. They know we're going in and hitting houses, right, and raids to me are fascinating because it's I don't I want to say it's kind of a unique part of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is these things that used to just be kind of an sfnician kind of get.

Everybody has that. Everybody has it, yeah.

Because and it's out of necessity of just there isn't just enough bodies and the stress that they put on SF and the pace that they worked them at. It just started being like this should be done by SF, really, but since we don't have the manpower for it, it's gonna also be done by like reclassed artillery. Men, so like I mean, I feel like that's kind of what happened.

As my view of the whole thing is.

Just they show you like a map kind of print out, and they say the strikers are gonna come here and they're gonna drop you off. About the strikers, they're they're quiet compared to the Bradleys, so less likely, although the dogs will smell you from two miles away and they're barking already, So the ramp drops local dogs are barking, so everyone knows you're there. You get out of the vehicle and the first thing you see is your squad leader just yelling like, oh this way, go this way.

And so we just kind of.

Like run through a backyard and then you get up into the way the buildings are in Iraq. It's kind of like a courtyard. And the squad leader is saying, kicking that door. So he goes and and like you think in the movies that you just kick it and like it's just smooth as fuck, it's choreographed, it's beautiful.

Now he kicks it and he's like, damn it, that doesn't open.

And now you see like lights are turning her on. And on the second kick he gets the door in. And so I'm I think like the third guy in the stack, and we all go into the room and you think it's gonna be there's like bad guys and this and that, and it's just there's like kids, yeah and there, and they're like crying and you've got your your mag light on your flashlight and you're yelling get the fuck down.

And really what you're doing is you're.

Like like separating kids from their parents and trying and then them I guy that's attacked, she is going in doing the bats and hides and trying to look for the bomb, the bomb maker, because that's what the raids were we were basically getting intel that like there's a bomb maker here at this house. So we go in and then they tell us after we've gotten like we've locked down the house, and then they're like, okay, this was the wrong house, but I'm pretty sure it's like

Well, would you pass them off to the Iraqi police at that point in time.

Or Dave, I have a funny story for you.

There you go, I'm down.

Okay, Yeah, we passed them off to the Iraqi place.

They were back on the street the next day.

No, please tell us almost worse. Like So, like I said, we're doing the rotating through the different roles. One of the jobs that you do is CP, where you're just sitting there doing guard duty basically for the command outpost at the bottom of the stairs. That station, which you do for like eight hour rotation, is right next to the Iraq Iraqi Police officers prison where we would have the guys, so they were torturing them there for like eight hours.

And then to your point, the weird part is we're also truck bus.

Loads of former insurgents are getting brought in the next day and then getting released because we're in the part of the war where it's like the draw down phase, so they're bringing as we're going and arresting guys. They're bringing in busloads of dudes that had been arrested before

Yeah? Yeah?

And also seeing like bad guys back out on the street. It's like, what is the plan?

Like why don't we have a pow camp like we've had them in you know, other wars where he's an enemy prisoner of war.

He since the war out.

You know, and but but it was just such a rotation there and it's like you know, going back year after years, like different leaders, different plans, but there but nobody really has a plan.

So yeah, start taking us through like the end of this deployment and getting back home.

Yeah, so the end of the tour.

You know, I'm trying to think of how I just felt about like the last few months, and really it's just you're counting the days and you're phrasing it as like it's only fourteen more days and awake up. Yeah, and we when I get back home. The transition when you're in the Guard the transition is kind of weird.

Problems with drugs, problems with relationships.

Were you still on the guard of this or were you out of the guard?

Yeah?

First, the first day I got back to Iraq at four dicks, we fly in and my well, somebody, I really, somebody close to me, I gave me ecstasy the first day I was back and was like, this will take away all your stress and your problems. I'm nineteen, I'm not thinking about like this could also ruin any your benefits give you like this dishonorable, no zero tolerance policy screwed.

Yeah.

Yeah, So it's just, you.

Know, I felt like I was drifting for years and years and not and feeling like really you know, feeling like they'll I'll never do something that important again.

Yeah, based on what you're saying, you know, you cause you mentioned as you know, active duty I would say unless somebody comes right off the deployment on active duty and ETSS gets out of the military, I would say it's harder as National Guard, even if you're in the Guard, because you come back from a deployment acting judy. You come back from a deployment and you've got the routine. You've got your family and I mean your brothers, sisters, whatever.

Like you've got.

You've got your peer group and they're also your support group, so you've got that. Right, you come back off of combat deppointment of Guard and you're just Johnny on the block again.

You don't have all.

Those you know, you're not You're not sitting in the erics like bullshitting.

With your bros.

So the only thing I think that compares with would compare is that somebody came back from it to play an ETS right away.

I think the Guard has a much rougher time with that.

So the way I look at it is like the Guard they have higher suicide rates because of things like that. Yeah, it's I I think active duty. I would never I it's hard to compare the two. It's active duty has it's so hard in a different way.

But yeah, you're.

Right, Like that's a they specifically tell people in the Guard to not for that reason.

Yeah, But the thing about National Guard guys is they have a life outside of the military.

But I think you've been gone for a year or so now you're coming back trying to reconnect to that life, and it's not easy.

There's high suicide rates for that reason.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, the active duty has their own struggles because they've got like twenty years under the belt of just deal with that bullshor. Yeah, it's it's something that I think a lot of people didn't plan for, Yeah, because the Guard was never supposed to be or really wasn't supposed to be used in that way. Yeah, and it's something that I find interesting. I've researched kind of

It was like contractors.

People don't know that it was something like, you know, fifteen thousand or whatever, it was contractors that got killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was basically they just found ways to not have to make the American public feel the pressure.

Yeah yeah, well, I mean everybody in the bureaucracy, the administrations and the military leadership were great at lying during the GWAT.

You know, they lied to themselves, they light to each other.

They so yeah, yeah, so so how how so you're back in art school, Like, how are you dealing I know you mentioned drugs and you know, just kind of the stark phase.

How are you dealing with all this? Like what's what's your life like now?

For a long time, not now now, but yeah yeah then at the time, you know, I I went to Brooklyn College, went back to my studies, went back to learning doing film again, and transferred from Brooklyn College to n YU, finished my studies to film school there.

And from there I got very lucky.

Got to go work at The Daily Show with John Stewart, which a lot of people don't know this, but John Stewart is huge fan, a huge like advocate for the military, tremendous nine.

To eleven workers.

Yeah, you did a lot of work on the burn pain stuff. Yeah, yep.

Yeah.

He went and visited a to anytime somebody got wounded, he went and visited all those dudes that got wounded at Walter read my buddy who after my tour, went to Afghanistan. His friend got shot up while he was there. John Stewart went spent time with him, like the guy. Definitely the only reason they hired me was because I was a veteran, but just what an amazing experience getting to work there, and.

So that kind of started me on.

I learned there how to like churn out episodic contact content that was like, how do you keep the quality while keeping the pace, how you mix in jokes with education and you know, I didn't agree with a lot of what he said, sure, but amazing boss and amazing believes in what he says, and just incredible team that he had.

I'm curious how many more years of college did you have when you came back.

From you appointment degree?

How like how was that for you, like relating to the students, relating to teachers.

I'm very curious about that. Yeah, because you just got dropped into it right.

Like there were times when there's a lot of students that you're getting you're getting very much given books on communism, and I'm not like this is just straight up we're going to learn about American history through the lens of communism, I'm as I'm saying, wait, why are Okay, I get critical lens theory, but this seems like, unless you know, you, unless you're really familiar with the material and the history already, you could very easily through critical lens misunderstand and just

Why are revisionist history?

Yes?

Yeah, yeah, but we see.

That now, like his very public opinion.

But I think critical theory is great once you've understood the classics and you've really read all of that and you understood it and you get why what we have is the best system ever, Like at least I think that. Yeah, then okay, let's try to deconstruct it so we can

I don't know. I found college to be frustrating.

I would frequently butt heads with students, and fortunately I was still at a time when they wouldn't, you know, pull out the red card and say, you know, we're gonna tell on you.

Which I hear that they're doing now.

But yeah, I didn't get along and I felt like an outsider and it was a little bit my own fault for not handling it better.

But I got through it. I finished it.

I mean, I just want to point out that that was a good experience for those students to be in that class with you and to hear a different person.

And it doesn't mean they're right and you're wrong or right, they're wrong, you.

Were right, but the communism sucks.

Look, it's an important it's an important experience for them and and for you too.

Did they know you're veteran.

I would make people cry. They would I would, they would cry. What I was just you probably shouldn't have made them cry. But but I wasn't making them cry. I was like, I was just saying, you're just saying what I was just saying, like, yeah, it was I was never I would just say, you're you're.

Having a contrary point of view.

Yes, yeah, and that would make them cry alone, but yeah, you're you're right, And like, I'm glad that I had that experience.

It's rough.

It's rough that so many people because after you interrogated the topic.

I saw the worst part of it. I feel like the Iraq War is one of the It's not it's not blind patriots, it's rough.

It's it's a like you see the failings, yes, and yet I still feel like we have the best system. And you know, communism at this point, I think, no, everyone already knows that, Like even even the communist countries have adopted capitalism.

Yeah, like that's no longer.

The argument now, I feel like is more about is authoritarian systems or its democratic systems more effective? And it's like there's an argument there, let's have that argument. Okay, valid, But so these students, it was frustrate me because like postmodernism is just so much of it in like NYU, it's everywhere.

It's just it's like people are saying, why are we wearing suits? Isn't that just like kind of why even you know?

And and I just don't even have the weaponry to articulate even and it's a good thought experiment. Why But I'll tell you that at the time, that's where everyone's head was at there, which I'm glad that.

This about two thousand and.

Also, I mean even from their own doctrine.

It's a bit superficial to talk about the clothing, the cooking.

But I don't think many of them actually know their doctrine.

Like they pick up that's where it comes from, pieces.

Of it and then go after whatever. Like the three meter target is a lot of times.

It was the you know, so to answer your question of like when I knew that I was heading in the right direction was when I went I went to Starbucks one morning and I ordered it was like a frappucino with grande, and they forgot my whipped cream and I was upset.

And I was like, you gave them a piece of your mind. I did.

I was like, excuse me, you didn't put the sugar in my frapp loca whatever the hell? And I realized I was like, oh, I'm I can be upset about petty things again, right, And it was.

Great, you can be. You can be you can have first world problems.

Yes, you can have first and it was amazing.

Yeah, And I was like, Okay, I get it now, Like there I get that I shouldn't walk around with this chip on my shoulder and feel like I'm different than everyone else and like be a little.

Bit I was in a way, I was acting like a victim in a way.

Yeah, And victim mentality, I feel like, is the worst thing.

And it's it's like self indulging. It like, yes, you get in a loop.

Arah, Yeah, it's really it's ah, it's mastabatory. You're just like getting off on how hard you had right or whatever. Yeah, and it's self destructive. And do you know how I know it was self destructive was because living that out I was leading to just like shittier and shittier relationships and my life was it just like it wasn't leading to better outcomes.

Yeah.

So that's how I knew that. When I realized that, oh I can you know, not be so self indulgent, things were starting to get better for me.

Did the teacher or not the teachers, well, the teachers, professors, whatever, But did the students know that you were a vet?

Did they know? And did and how did? I'm curious how, especially in New York, because I've.

Had some experiences in New York where I felt like people were actually afraid of me because they still think the uh post traumatic stress is like the nineteen seventies made for TV movie that dude goes postal.

Did you, like, what was your experience with them knowing you were that.

Yeah, everybody knew that it was a veteran.

Because I didn't let anybody not know, Like that was my that was my personality for a while.

How can it not be. It's like such a huge part of your life.

You're nineteen, that's you know, a pretty big fraction of your adult life.

And not a peace time veteran either. You would just come back from a life changing event.

Yeah, so I I talked about it, and you know, I let people know I'm on ARAQ veteran. That's what That's what makes me special. That's like, yeah, that's my thing. That's that's how I get laid in New York City for a while.

That worked.

Oh yeah, because you're you're like, that's you're a little bit different, and you know you went over there.

It's it to some people. Sure, sure, to enough.

People, I guess, so.

We're we're I'm sure there were, because obviously there's not a monolithic student.

But did you find that they were open to it, resistant to it? Did they judge you positively negatively?

Do they seek your wisdom, your guidance, your counsel, they call you baby killer.

Now I butted heads with some people about it, but I was still trying to figure out how I've even felt about it.

Right at the time, right.

Most people really, God bless these the students, because you know, coming back from the Vietnam War, I'm sure a lot of those guys are getting told whether they're green cold, baby killers or whatever, they had it a hell of a lot worse than me, which is a lot of people at least go through the charade of I know, thank you for your service has been given a whole like I don't want to hear it, but I I love it in terms of like because whenever I meet cops, I realize that a lot of times I ask them

These kids have no frame of reference.

Give them a little bit of not just kids, but adult and nobody. If they haven't served, they don't know. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

If they ask you if you killed anybody, don't be like, don't ask me, Just like they're trying to get to know you, and they're they're stumbling through doing it imperfectly. And so I try, especially now, to like let people be bad at talking about this, you know, let them like be awkward.

It's kind of it's kind of incumbent, especially what all of us do today. It's a kind of incumbent on us to tell that story.

And give them some grace, you know, give them some grace because these yes, I always you know, like there are the three standard questions, uh like were you in combat?

Yes? Did you ever kill anybody? How did you get over it? You know?

And I feel like I feel like I see it coming a mile away when somebody because there's that timidity or you know, they're they're kind of shy it up.

They really want to.

Know because it's it's an experience so far outside of anything they've ever known.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're just that's you're right, Like they're just trying to learn more about it. Yeah, So help them learn more about redirect the question if you want redirected to a question that you want to answer.

Yeah, maybe maybe they saw a couple movies and.

Like that's the extent of Yeah, absolutely, And that's a huge part of the YouTube channel now that I do is is trying to bridge that gap between the civilian and the military and give the like you said, give people the grace, give.

Them the leeway, and like the slack to ask stupid questions.

Yeah.

You know, it's funny because you mentioned like the Vietnam vets, and I feel like there was so much like generational shame for the way they were treated that people were almost people were afraid to say anything like derogatory about service members.

They might say, I don't like the war, but.

I respect you because because I don't want to be the civilian, you know, spitting on a Vietnam vet.

Yeah, which is to me, it's ironic because like, if you're gonna hate somebody, you actually should hate the Iraq Afghanistan veterans because we all volunteered to go do that shit, whereas like the a good portion of the Vietnam veterans got drafted. Right, So like, if you're gonna hate somebody, who actually should hate me? Yeah, because I volunteered and like full well knowing what I was.

If anyone's guilty, it's.

Me, And you know, I mean going out there and using babies as target practice.

When we did, we didn't have you know, yeah, why do we do that? Yeah?

I think one of the things that people find interesting because you guys, you worked with the Iraqi police. Yeah, and like there's this idea, oh, out there killing brown people, like No, we were like working next to them to help them rebuild their country.

That's how I wrote my That's why they took me into n y Us. I wrote that. That was my essay, was like we worked that.

My my greatest ally was the Iraqis. Yeah, like I I have nothing but respect for the Iraqis. They wanted a better life for themselves and their their people. Like our interpreter, his name was Fox. He now lives in America. And what an amazing dude. I did a I did a tour. He did six years right as an interpreter.

Just he didn't get to go home. No, he was what he was right, Yeah, like on the weekends or whatever.

He didn't an to worry about like getting dimed out, getting tortured, right, getting rolled up?

Right, So why he went by Fox? Fox wasn't his name?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And now God blessed that they did a lot of work to get him to the States. But yeah, the Iraqi people, you know, they weren't they weren't my enemy.

So mentally, when does it start?

I know you mentioned the I can have first war problems again, but when does sort of the burden of the war start to lift or does it like, how does that?

I had hyper vigilance problems for a long time.

I you know, I tried to fill the void with drugs and alcohol.

And it wasn't because like.

I killed people or I uh, you know, saw my friend die. It was because you're on edge for a year and you're you're living in this you might get killed reality, right, Yeah, yeah, And so it took me a long time to get over myself. It took me a long time to basically the most important thing is just finding that sense of purpose again. You know, it's very hard I think for veterans to replace something as as just monumental being a part of that. How do

But but it needs to be said again and again and again.

Yeah, you know, because that really is there's no transition, there's reinvention, right that you have to you have to find something new.

What was that for you?

Like, how did that start to come about where you sort of found your way in the civilian sector tasking purpose?

Yeah, I was. I was a absolute.

Mad man until the YouTube channel, until I started getting to interact with the viewers and put out when the video.

I did the video, I would I don't care if three hundred people are watching. When three hundred people were watching, I was stoked. I was excited. That was amazing. Three hundred people were watching the videos.

So you had your film background and then you apply for this job at task and purpose.

That's why I applied because I was.

I was.

So I did marketing for years for Cisco and IBM, and I was doing tons of videos for them, marketing, messaging and like just for the the top technology companies in the States, creating their marketing videos for like all of their biggest products for IBM and Cisco for years. After I left the Daily Show, and I felt empty because.

So you're still going through it.

Oh ye years, Oh God, through Cisco and IBM. Yeah I can say this now, but like I was a total drug addict and just mad man through my years of creating marketing videos for some of the biggest companies in the United States, like doing interviewing their c suite, doing all their biggest product launches, doing marketing for them, and I felt so empty inside because, like I just I didn't have much control over what I was saying.

Were merging film in your military back.

That's why when I saw that advertisement, I was like, oh my god, this is a match made in heaven. Like I can use my film skills and I can also marry it with this my military background, and I had spent many years not wanting to talk about the military.

Not I had never for years like I was the guy that I have.

One time, my squad leader asked me, what's the name of the grenade launcher on top of the striker? And I blanked and he was like it's Mark nineteen, you idiot start pushing And I didn't, so like I wasn't the guy that was obsessed with military equipment. But when I started working for TMP, and I realized I love this stuff, like I love the maximum effective range of a weapon. I want to memorize that now, like and there were guys that had the Ranger Handbook and had

And it didn't start off that way.

Like I was hired there as just an editor and I was putting together news hits of just b Roll and not even my voice. It was just like a text and b Roll put together for their Facebook channel. And I said to them, I said, hey, we should do some YouTube stuff. This thing is people are doing stuff on YouTube. It's just and they were it was like startup phase, so they were like, do whatever the hell you want. So I hated being in front of the camera.

I hated it.

Didn't want to do it, but I was like, I'll try it. And when I started, I was terrible at it. It was so bad, so.

I couldn't read. I couldn't. I was trying to memorize everything.

Here was this that you started twenty eighteen or nineteen? Okay, it was like right before the pandemic, and I was you want to know how bad it was. I was doing everything as a joke. I was doing everything. So I was doing like, yes, super tongue in cheek about so satirical.

I was so funny and like it was going to be, you know.

I was just doing something on THET and somebody commented on one of the videos, and I'll never forget this comment because it changed my life. They said, why don't you tell me something useful about the striker? Why don't you tell me something about like the striker versus the BTR? And no one's thinking about the BTR back in twenty eighteen because.

This was before that you wore in Ukraine. So but I took the comment to heart, some value added, Yeah, right.

And so instead of just doing like jokes and just like satirical, I'll why don't I go and look up some information and like present it in a digestible format and just like swallow my pride a little bit and not do just what makes me happy and do what

It's just these kind of hype of you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, you just kind of this is what Infantrumen talk about. Yeah, you just you have these hypothetical conversations. So I started.

Kind of putting those into a format and people started commenting, and the comments felt like purpose. It felt like there are people out there that are getting something out of this, and I felt like I was being useful and I felt like I had a reason to live again.

Yeah.

How long did you stay in the Guard after you came back from your deployment?

About three years. I got out briefly in so I did.

I did a hurt, two domestic missions in New York City, did Hurricane Irene, and then Sandy. And Sandy was, oh my god, what a mess, like counter people doing looting.

Yeah.

I was at what was that hospital on the East Side on thirty third with the patient Bellvue. Yeah, so me and the Marine Reserves were in Bellevue when it got flooded for Sandy, and we're like bringing up gasoline as they're doing heart surgery on the fourteenth floor. And because the bottom generator, yeah, Sandy.

Was everything like below fifty ninth Street the power got up.

Yeah. Yeah, So I stayed in the Guard for another I did a total of like five years in the Guard.

So I stayed in.

Longer because I loved it and I thought I wanted to deploy again, But the New York Guard ended up getting their deployment canceled. So I stayed in for a total of like at least another three or four years.

Afterwards, When you.

Were going to those drills and things. Was that like a reprieve for you.

Was that because you're around the guys again, or was it bad because we're just doing a drill and it's not Iraq.

The best thing about the Guard staying in it through that period was I didn't smoke weed.

Like you can't smoke weed. I did.

I'll I'll be honest, like I did the harder stuff because it only stays in your system for three days. Yeah, but you know, New York Guard had a zero tolerance policy. You're getting dishonorable or if I'm wrong, whatever, the you're losing your benefits, Like you're pretty screwed if you pop hot.

So I didn't smoke weed. It kept me. It kept me with the guys. It kept me with the squad, that sense of community.

Yeah, and.

Doing doing the domestic missions was still a part of my life.

Yeah.

So yeah, I did that up and I think I got out in twenty fifteen, fourteen, twenty fifteen or fourteen, So.

During that time, we're still a good touchstone for you to kind of balance balance that everything else going on.

It was good to get drug tested once a week or once a month. Yeah, it was good to like stay out, stay some kind of honest throughout living in New York City.

Yeah, for that time period.

Yeah, yeah, get out and you you're transitioning into this video job full time right.

Like three years later, right about yeah, about three years later after after working for IBM and Cisco, then at T ANDP, and it starts to blow up, it starts to just get like I still feel weird about it because I've never been the type of person that Now it's so nice where sometimes I'll I'll go to a shooting range in like Florida, and someone will walk up to me and be like, hey, do you host the Task and Purpose show? And it's the nicest thing ever.

Well, you guys have like your channel, I mean your episodes.

I saw someone like six hundred thousand, Like, I'm sure you have bigger numbers than that.

I mean, you are famous to a segment Internet famous.

Yes, yeah, to a segments the distinction, but you are like if if there are like a million people out there, from all the countries whatever. A million two million people out there who know who you are. That's not nothing.

My uncle doesn't know what I do. And there is a.

Being Internet famous is like being not famous, and I the thing I like just about it is that it's I feel like, if you're like famous, famous, then a lot of people who, like anybody comes up to you, right, But if.

You're Internet famous, the people that come up to you are the people. They're your people. Yeah, They're the people like you want, They're the people that you would love to hear from.

Yeah, And and they're the people that are going to come up and ask you about like, what do you think about the five five six versus the six eight by fifty one?

Is it really a good idea? It's it's the nerds.

That like, that's my people, that's my team.

So what is your demograph? Your chief demographic?

You know.

So we're now at one point seven million subscribers, and there's a significant portion of that is the American audience, big also European audience and Southeast Asian audience as well, people from all over the world, people that are concerned about what's happening with China and Taiwan, people in the Philippines that are concerned about what's happening with their country

So a lot of people, yeah, all.

Over the world who are concerned about different things that that that I find fascinating. I think in America, in the Western audience, we reasonably so don't worry about what's happening around the world because we kind of don't have to.

We have that remove Yeah.

Yeah, but yeah, there's uh, it's been, it's been amazing, it's.

Are are there are there milestones or events that you know, like really stand out.

Yeah.

So when I started talking about the NNGSW next Generation squad weapon that's replacing the M four and uh that those that was the first viral video when I started talking about that because that's something we used to talk about in the guard towers. And then six hour reached out to me and I got to be the first civilian to go and test fire. That got to go and test fire the true velocity the polymer cased ammo, which I was fell in loved with.

That was really sick.

I got got to test fire these webs I got to learn about like procurement, what even, what even is?

The idea behind it is that the ammunition is lighter, right, so for.

True velocity, their value add is that the ammunition is about thirty percent or I might get it wrong, but like it's lighter than brass casing, so you can carry more of it. But at the same time it's still same high powered weapons. So they're they're testing that with SF guys and firing off. Basically, what's because the advances in polymer technology and in manufacturing for polymer casings is you could now have instead of a brass casing, polymer

It's interesting too with the concept of like green ammunition that there have been a couple I think there have been a couple of different efforts to replace lead in the bullets with something that is quote unquote green and they but they haven't been able to find something that's as consistent.

I thought they did it. I thought graphite.

Really, I don't think the I don't think our bullets are made of lead anymore.

I think it's graphite, really, so they replaced it.

I might be wrong, but my understanding is that they replaced all because we could look it up. But I believe they replaced a lot of it with GRAPHI yeah, you could be Yeah, I mean exactly what you're talking.

It's not just so a lot.

The thing that's funny about like the environmental concerns is the environmental a lot of time aligns with economic concerns, and I think you would find shocking.

Yeah, right, anytime the defense industry. I have a theory.

I'm going to go on record and say that I have a theory that any time that a environmental concern you hear from the military industrial complex probably also aligns with economic concern I.

Don't think that's so far.

So to bullshit, and like game do game theory here, Like you know, we're always sold on the idea the five five, six, seven six two.

It's a NATO round, so everybody has it.

So if a big war pops off logistics procurement, you know, supply like it's not an issue.

Do you feel that, with these new.

Rounds coming on online, this explointing stuff like that, that they still have that manufacturing capability to back up a.

You know, is this something that NATO might move to eventually?

Do you think that they had the manufacturing capability to back up a major push Somewhere?

Lake City, Utah is where they produce about five billion rounds of five five six a year, and SIG is now moving to produce more of the six to eight AMMO at scale, and they're creating new manufacturing processes in Jacksonville.

Oh god, where's Jacksonville? Is that Kentucky?

But they're setting up new plants to basically start to produce at scale the six to eight. And so I want to tell you about some feedback that I got from the guys on the ground. I put out a video recently about the six eight and the feedback from the soldiers, and it's fascinating in that So the PAOs they published this guy, this guy, They gave out the six to eight and GSW a bunch of troops test fired it. The PAOs are the ones that are kind

For the X Y and Z.

I published this video and then I get a you could look it up. I get a bunch of hate from a couple of dudes who are like, why did you cherry pick my quotes? Why did you only mention the positive things that I said? And I'm like, dude, I'm only open source. I only look at what the pos published. What only the military dot Com and Stars and Stripes and all these publications get access to.

So somewhere along the line their negative feedback.

Was interesting, Yeah, shocking. Yeah.

If you look on Reddit, this one soldier has a ton of negative feedback and he was pissed at me, and understandably.

Shockingly, here the Public Affairs is just putting out army propaganda.

Who can't believe it? Who knew? And in my video, I mentioned the same thing.

I'm like, I got the I got the three three twenty grenade launcher, and I was like, this thing's a piece of garbage.

But I doubt that Army Times or whoever.

Yeah, yeah, but but you read like the stories and yeah in the Army Times like this is a game changer, This changes everything.

And I don't mean to I don't mean to dump on like any publication, but all I'm saying because I don't really I really don't think it's Army Times or whoever. I just think that it's like the PAOs that control, right, because the.

Army Times are only getting quotes from the PAOs. So basically, the.

Public affairs officer is only publishing the positive. The one line that this guy was like, it's fucking is amazing at this thing, right, And he was rightfully pissed at me for parroting this quote without digging deeper.

And so, okay, here's what I think.

XM seven soldiers love that has extra range, extra firepower, but they hate that it's a pain to maintenance. It's a pain in terms of recoil and in terms of way. So but you're not going to read that in Stars and stripes po is never going to let that go through. And of course, like if you look at the M sixteen, the teething problems that it had, they kind of like swept that under the rug, but the.

M sixteen worked out. Yeah, so it's tough. It's tough.

Yeah, Yeah, it's one of these things, like the M sixteen is a good example right now, also the Vetoll vertical takeoff and landing with the osprey. It's like, are these technologies that are going to pay dividends in the decades to come. You know, right now it might be kind of a shitty capability, but ten years, twenty years from now, like it actually is a game change or it actually does change things in the wars of the future hopefully.

What would you think about the five five six Do you like or how do you feel about the six eight by fifteen?

I have some boomer views about this stuff. I mean, I think the seven six two is kind of where it's at for a rifle. I'm not a huge five to five to six guy. But on the other hand, five five six there is a lot to be said for it. Uh, it's lighter, so you can carry more of it. It has been great for the types of wars we've been in the last twenty years, you know CQB, not not just the round but also the platform, the M sixteen platform. It's been great for that type of fighting.

Five five six.

But then there are all sorts of like arguments and counter arguments about like is the is the rifling in the barrel over accuratizing the round? Is the is around moving too fast for what we're trying to accomplish, Like, yeah, you're getting range, but it's not doing the type of damage when it enters the body, like it's just zipping.

Through with minimal tissue damage. There's all the all these different arguments. But yeah, I'm I'm more of.

A seven six ' two and maybe maybe six point five is the compromise.

Let me ask you another question, so, uh, if I'm not mistaken, did you did some sniper work?

Yeah?

So what are your thoughts on training and average inforturement to shoot out to eight hundred meters or six hundred meters?

Are that reasonable?

No?

I don't. I don't think so.

I think that I think six. I think that it's completely possible, but that is advanced marksmanship training. It takes some time, and absolutely I think that you could take any infantryman and get him to that point, but that takes advanced training beyond what we can teach in basic training.

Even with the x M one fifty seven scope, Like, no matter what scope you get, So I feel like you're absolutely right that even if you give them this like insane computerized scope, the fundamentals of shooting in terms of like in terms of like trigger squeeze, heart rate, and breathing. I don't care how good of a scope you give, if you give the right scope to somebody who understands those fundamentals, because I'm somebody who's not a great shot, but like you're, you've done sniper school and

I I totally believe you can get them there. I think that you can train them to do like dual breach, multiple teams CQB on a house, like, you can get them there, but it takes additional time and training, And the question is always is the army willing to invest that is the Army.

Gonna are you talking about when you said infantrymen, are you talking about every infantryman coming out of a.

Tue Dave David, I'm talking about every infant so every swing not even like so snipers. We don't like talk about this, but like there's a lot of there's a lot of dummies that are in eleven Brava there are they're like, there's also a lot of incompetent troops. There's a certain amount of infantrmen who can be snipers, who

As Americans, we love technological solutions, We absolutely we love technology.

So I'm going I'm gonna approach this actually from a different angle because the Marine Corps boot camp is four weeks longer than the Armies. But the Marine Corps does because I went through both Army and Marine Corps boot camp, and the Marine Corps does marksmanship right. You spend a shit ton of time snapping in which is just learning the formations for your slings and sitting in front of

So this was the other thing.

This was the other thing that people So this guy got so pissed at me for publishing this video, and I told I get it. I fuck, I get it, man like so he h, so the m A for the XM seven is between a three and a four. Well no, but he said he also said he was like a lot of times it's a one point eight.

So the way he said it was that the m A was a one point eight.

But sometimes it'll throw a random shot, It'll just throw it because the PSI on the thing is yeah, eighty thousand, So he would he said that every like third or

So for people who might not be aware of the terminology, MLA is a minute of angle, and it's one inch, right, one inch or one one inch for every hundred yards or a mile. Yeah, yeah, one inch for every hundred yards of accuracy. So if you shoot one hundred yards, you're round based on that that uh, that round and that rifle combination is going, it'll have a one inch spread of where you may hit.

It's a it's a cone that is opening up the further you get. So one inch at one hundred meters, two inches at two hundred meters, and.

So so it's a four MA four minutes of angle would be four inches at one hundred right, that's kind of unseat, yeah, and then yeah, and then eight inches at two hundred and then then we start Yeah, he says, it's like a one point one point between.

A one point eight two point eight, and then also there's like a random throut. So so here's the thing.

It's interesting because the M sixteen was a piece of garbage when it first came out right total trash, but then over the decades became a really like refined weapon. So it's tough to tell are they refining it? Is this the teething problems, It's really tough to tell.

It's I mean, and then and then like even on the like the M four platform, where you start getting you know, different upper you start getting different things that.

Because you you can hit six hundred with an M four.

So I don't know, do we have questions for uh from mister Chris.

Are there a lot of in your opinion?

Are there a lot of parts of this gun that can be improved?

The way I would look at the XM seven is that it's a platform, it's a system, and it's also a bet on what the.

Future of the future war is going to look like. So what we.

All experienced in g WATT is like very different than what the near peer war is going to be. The army is betting that we're not going to be kicking indoors and yelling at kids saying get down, get down.

That's not the future of war.

The future of war against China and Russia is that building has already been flattened, and that you're not doing CQB is that you're in combat right, and your standoff is your advantage and your overmatch, and you might be outnumbered, but you can see not only with drones. Drone warfare is going to allow you to identify targets way further out.

They can even engage you.

That's the idea they're making a bet, I think is that, and if they fully adopt the XM seven, it becomes the seven and it's fully adopted two hundred thousand rifles. If that happens, the army believes that that bet is worth it, and that that's what the future of warfare is going to look like. They might be wrong, they might be right. Whatever I don't I don't know, but that's what they think. And I think a lot of people forget that it's not just the XM seven, it's the XM two to fifty.

XM two fifty is.

Four or five pounds lighter than the saw has a minute of angle that's easily you know, it's a three minute of angle versus the saw is like a twelve or.

Something minute of angle. I don't know.

Six it's like this. It's not just a rifle, it's also a whole squad. So to me, the NNGSW.

Program is about betting on the future of warfare more than just a rifle. It's a system.

So do you think that when these because pas are geting their marching ordership somewhere right, do you think that it's that that they just want to give this because I don't know. I get kind of cynical about the government sometimes, like okay, who has the contract is trying to butter this up? But do you think it's just more a matter of wanting to give this time to breathe?

There's billions of dollars on the line.

We can't attend we can't pretend like there isn't billions of dollars on the line.

Yeah, look at where these cgs retire to and boards of directors that they get on board with afterwards.

Yeah, you don't end up with the UCP camouflage pattern for no reason, Like you don't end up with a gray, weird camo pattern instead of like multiicam is amazing now, But how did we end up that.

This week that they're talking about replacing the Army pt uniform? Like there should be a Department of Justice investigation on the Department of Defense and these uniform changes that they make every year and a half, two years, Like it is straight up criminal negligence.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The there's always the balancing act between the military industrial complex is a real thing. Yeah, and also there's real threats to us, so it's like, uh, you always got a balance