An Inside look at an ODA (A-team) in Special Forces | Justin Juarez | Ep. 304

I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to, and we really appreciate that, So go and check us out at patreon dot com, Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations, cobt.

cooling mattresses, cooling pillows, and even cooling bedding. From their signature ghost Ice fabric to patented technology that adjusts your with your body temperature, every ghost Sped mattress is designed with cooling in mind. So whether you want a pleasure mattress that cushions your shoulders and hips, or a firmer option with exceptional support. Your ghost bed will keep you cool and comfortable.

probably clarify when I say poor. We weren't dirt poor like you see in some places, like the kind of poor I saw in like the South for example, when I when I joined the Army and went over to the Carolinas and stuff. But anyways, Uh so my parents realized that, uh, the way to improve your life was through education, and so that was a that was the value in the family early on. And ah that kind of led to me being as far as I know, the first one in my family to go to college,

to go to like a four year college. Uh. Being from Wyoming is you know, has lot of advantages. There's not very many people there, and it's it's a it's a fun place you can do a lot outdoor kind

of activities, fishing and shooting and stuff like that. So I grew up doing a lot of shooting just you know, birds and prairie dogs and stuff like that, and target shooting and fishing and stuff like that, and you know, really really got a feel for you know, sort of being outdoors and but also just kind of the West and and that sort of lifestyle that's kind of still goes on out here today. So from you know, I stayed. I stayed in Wyoming through college. I ended up going

to University Wyoming. And when I was a kid, I wanted to be a World War two fighter pilot, which of course is you know, not something you can be. But I used to watch all the shows and yeah, and you know, we used to read all the books about World War two and stuff like that, and and uh uh, but I was I was pretty a pretty poor vision. You know, all all through life. I had real thick glasses and then contacts later on, you know, as I got older. Uh fortunately the Army got me

lasick once I was graduated the Q course. But so so anyway, as I kind of when I was like maybe preteen, the idea was maybe get me into the Air Force Academy. And because you know, we couldn't. No one in my family could afford to pay for college for me, and I you know, there wasn't any way I can do it. So it's either some kind of a scholarship academic or athletic or something like that. And

and uh, really I wasn't athletic enough for scholarship. I was a pretty pretty good tennis player, but not that not you know, not collegiate level, I don't think so between the vision and well that was really it is his vision. And and you know, honestly, I didn't really uh try too hard dur in high school, I would

say I was I was smart enough. I was kind of I kind of think of it as I was cursed with being smart enough to not have to really work that hard in high school to get through, which is it sounds like a kind of a good thing in a way, but it's actually not, because, as you learn in life, the key to success is not to be smart. It's actually to be resilient and to keep pushing through when you have when you've come up against challenges,

you know, academically or what have you. Uh So Anyways, ended up going to University Wyoming, and my dad had pushed for me to you know, go into the medical field. Is you know, he saw that as a way of of you know, attaining a good income, status, social status, all the kind of stuff that you think is great when you know you're come from an immigrant family or come from a poor family, whatever whatever it may be. But I think I really just never had the passion

for that. Nevertheless, I ended up getting a pre med degree from University Wyoming, and and I was all set to go to med school. I'd take my MCATs. I had already started applying, I was kind of midway through the application process, and then September eleventh, but you know that the attacks and those happened in my senior year would have been obviously two thousand and one, but I graduated. I waited until I graduated in two thousand and two, and I signed up like a delayed entry or something

like that. I can't remember when exactly I signed up, but I left maybe a few weeks after I graduated. I left for basic training.

that you know, you don't know about. And not that I don't know exactly how to described this, but there's people that are doing things I'm half of the country that know that people don't know about and I don't know that. Uh, I don't know how to really describe it, but it kind of it kind of spoke to me a little.

had just just come about. And it turns out we were we He left in like April O two and I left in JUNEO two. We were in some of the first two classes X rays that went out. Yeah, so we were we were very fortunate because you know, we all heard horror stories of you know, trying to get going to the regular army and then get into SF or rangers, and our in our basic class it was half it was half X rays and half rip

contract guys. And uh none of the rip contract guys made it because they were all infantry and rangers didn't need infantry at that point. So we were fortunate that we chose the way we did. And uh, A lot of a lot of the guys that I was with in Basic were had come out of college or super good dudes. Uh, and most of the most of us made it as x rays.

basic is. It's a lot of stuff and it's like, really, this is the army and then Airborne school is supposed to be tough and you sort of run around like at a walking pace. And ah, so we got to SAPSI and then we saw what stuff was really about. And yeah, we had a SAPSY instructor. He's pretty he was pretty famous at the time. His name is Ralph Ralph Jensen. He was this German guy from tenth group and he was a scuba guy who had I don't

know how he got to SAPSI. I heard he I heard he did something wrong, you know, and group got sent over there. You know how it is. Nobody wants to be there.

this is this is pretty intense stuff. And and I don't know if more guys quit and sopsy then than the rest of the course, I'd say I'd say there's a chance there was more guys that quit there, Yeah, than then quit later on because it was it was pretty brutal. And and when it came time for selection, Uh, selection was was not wasn't as intense as what SOPSY was. With the exception of it was the weather was a lot words, which made it pretty miser really for us.

kind of think of of my path in life. The success that I've had is it's it's uh, it's dependent almost as much on the things that I didn't do, some very key, key sort of crossroad points where I didn't I didn't take an action, and and uh it's as dependent on those points those things as as the positive actions that I did take, like for example, joining as a as an x ray. But the first one of those was in Sapsey and and uh, I remember we were landing Evan in the rain and there was

a there was a guy in with us. I didn't think much of him. He was a you know, kind of small, kind of just not just not that impressive of a guy, I thought. And and I was going through there, and I hadn't really got the hang of land that have yet, So I was kind of half lost and walking through the woods with whatever it was, sixty odd pounds on her on my back, just miserable, and and I I was, I was kind of just

wanting to quit, you know. Of course, I don't know if you guys had this, but they always had the threat of sending us to Korea or the or the deuce eighty second, So that was that was a pretty good motivator to keep us from quitting. But anyway, so

I'm thinking, ah, maybe the Deuce ain't that bad. And then then pops into my head, pops this this guy who's in Sopsy with us, you know, and and he's like, you know, SF just isn't for everybody, That's what he's saying to me in my head, and so I was like, fuck you, I'm not quitting, and uh, and so I pushed on and so that was that was sort of one of those sort of key like uh, crossroad points in my life. Then it was like I pushed on. I you know, made it through sopcy and made it

through selection and the course and all that stuff. But uh, kind of a strange kind of occurrence there because I never really had something like that happening again.

up till then. You know, I know, other groups have been coming online, but a lot of it had been Fifth Group, and so there were guys there who were pretty you know, salty, pretty crusty guys, you know, combat experienced, and uh So it was intimidating partially because also because Fifth Group had such a reputation. I mean, it was like it was sort of like going to Ranger Regiment, you know. And I'm not you know, I'm not saying

it's like that. I never been to Ranger Regiment, but just the idea in my head, it was like Fifth Group wasn't the relaxed, you know, long hair and everything, you know, a cool guy, uh kind of gentleman school kind of kind of environment. It was like it was it was the hard asses and we do everything the hardest way possible and that kind of stuff. So so it was intimidating and and you know, I had I had some advice from from a guy who was who

was uh who was in Jaysock. I was riding dirt bikes with him, and he told me, you know, if you get a chance, volunteer for like the hardest, the hardest things that you can, you know, so the hardest school, scuba school, stuff like that, you know, and because you always want to you want to get to the higher levels of of of group and and and the army. And when I got to group, the the I leave as a company sergeant major might have been the time

Sergeant major. He's like, well, I don't think about where where where I should send you. We got the slot open on the scuba team and a couple of other teams, and I'm like, and I hated from from sopsy. I hated the swimming, I hated the pool. I hated all that stuff. And so I didn't I didn't go to the to the to the dive team. And looking back, that was probably a mistake, although you know, I don't. I don't regret it, you know, a ton really, but.

the Soft Journal or something like that. I can't remember, but like I said, when I got there, or you know, I mentioned earlier, when I got to the team, I will was the I was the senior Charlie right off the bat, and most of the guys didn't have much experience at that time.

in once he hit eighteen or whatever. I don't know if they had that, but the contracting world there was a big that was a big draw, and I don't know if they were doing that or not, or were just so tired of being in Afghanistan and whatnot, because it was those guys were. They weren't living like we lived when I deployed. We lived and Saddam's mother in law's palace in Baghdad. You know, we weren't living hard like those guys were. So I don't blame them, you know,

for getting out. And it's not like they just got the group in two thousand and one. You know, those guys have been there, right, so they had already been in the army a while.

It controls oder for seventy two hours. It's clinically proven. You can choose from four alone quality sense, or get uncented if you want to get stealthy. So I've been using the deodorant for a few weeks now I really like it has a good smell. What do you think?

go and check that out again. New customers get five dollars off Mando's best selling starter pack with the code Teamhouse at Shopmando dot com. The starter pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice like mini body washed or deodorant wipes, and free shipping. So again, luckily we have this discount discount code for you to get you hooked up on our favorite smelling whole body deodorant.

You get five dollars off that starter pack with our exclusive code that equates to over forty percent off your starter pack. So use the code Teamhouse at Shopmando. That's s h O P M A n D dot com.

and you can cancel any time. Fabric was designed by parents for parents, and now they partner with Gerber Life, trust by millions of families like yours for over fifteen fifty years.

Policies issued by Western Southern Life Insurance Company. Insurance Company not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. And you should have a will and you should have life insurance, particularly if you have young children. Meetfabric dot com.

at the time, and so we're pretty young team. And but we did have our team sergeant, our first team shot at the time was it he was a silver Star winner and so he was like, you know, he was like amazing in my eyes, like he could do no wrong, and uh, yeah, he was. He was kind

of a wild guy. I remember in our you know, you do your you know, your pre mission prep and all that stuff, and then you brief the company commander on what's your mission is going to be, what's you know, just to hold that whole commander briefing before you deploy, and and I remember the he was saying some wild stuff. I don't remember what all, but the company commander was

a super sharp guy. Ended up going up to the Pentagon and he's like, okay, so what kind of what kind of numerical superiority are you guys looking for when you engage the enemy in combat? And and my team sergeant said thirty to one And a company company commander says, you want thirty guys for every every shithead? And no he's he says, oh, he says if there's thirty of them for every one of us we're going in and so I think I think that kind of played into

some events that followed. And you know, it ended up that the guys had they had sort of misstep on the previous deployment, and they didn't really do anything super wrong, but they had done some gray area stuff trying to help out, trying trying to right or wrong a mistake that that one of the guys had made. I won't get into it too much, but they were they were trying to do the right thing, but they just went about it the wrong way. And you know, it wasn't

any kind of war crime stuff like that. It was of financial related stuff.

He was a stud, a physical stud, but he just was such an asshole and nobody liked him. And and I think he was getting booted off the team. I think he's getting voted off the island basically. And and he went to uh to the Jaggers whoever, and said, hey, this team did this, you know. Anyways, he told them all the all the stuff, all the secrets, you know, Like I said, nothing was that bad. But in my eyes,

I wasn't worried about anything. But anyways, they right before we deployed, they they dispersed the team, you know, disbanded the team and uh everyone went different places. And I ended up uh deploying straight into up see Jasoda and ballade like high high level command, you know, and I was a I forget what they call it, but the battalion rep up there and I'm an E five and

surrounded by you know, colonels. Colonel McDonald was running the whole show in the whole country at that time and brief in him every day, and everyone else that's doing the job as as generally an eight I think, because it's all guys who were combat weary and you need a little downtime or something like that. Anyways, I spent the first maybe half of my first deployment at see Josoda doing admin stuff, and I was absolutely miserable, obviously,

as any team guy would be up there. I did meet Vince mackel up there, a hell of a good dude, and a lot of good dudes up there, you know. But that was the first time I got exposed to sort of a toxic political uh sort of just that sort of a leadership, that sort of top high level leadership environment, you know, just the kind of stuff that you hear about and just dread about that goes on at the top levels of command. And I saw all

that stuff firsthand. And and there's a lot of dudes that cared, especially Colonel McDonald really cared a lot about the guys. But the overall attitude and kind of how I describe it is, or I think of it as like they all felt like they could just win the war if they could get these goddamn pesky team guys out of the way.

prosecuted and the team's team leader got prosecuted both. And yeah, so so two guys that I looked up to were just prosecuted for some what I considered total bullshit and not just just one of those things where you're like, hey, the leadership should have said, hey, you had the right intention, you've dumb about it, you know, move on kind of thing.

But uh yeah, so they I kind of got. I kind of got that glimpse of that view of officers stabbing each other in the back and shit talking and stuff like that, and I saw how the ground truth gets twisted ten degrees or twenty five degrees at every step until at the top of the chain it's one hundred and eighty degrees and they have absolutely no idea what's going on, right, all right, so it's their idea is one hundred and eighty degrees out I guess is

more accurate. So, but there was there was good things to it too, of course, but but yeah, that was just a miserable time, unfortunately, I was. They brought back the team together and and then finally sent me down, uh back to the teamhouse, which was in Baghdad, just south of the Green zone there.

far as fitness and stuff like that goes. And then you have all the capabilities obviously that that you know on top of that, But not to disparage civilians, I'm just saying that's the that's the the standard of of s F is that even if you're the slowest guy, you better be a damn good runner. And you know, if you're the weakest, you better be still strong. And you know, you got to be able to rock really well and carry a lot of weight even if you're

a small guy. So yeah, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of strong personalities basically hopefully not too much of the prima donnas like some other branches have, but but yeah, you need a strong leader, and we didn't have one, and so it was it was not a pretty time on that deployment. Uh, we didn't. I don't think we're super productive. You know, the guys wanted to go out and be but you know, we just weren't. And you know, we did what we could.

what we could and and whatnot. And we definitely did some some ASO work and stuff like that, and you know, drove around in Lovez with you know, in in Hodgey vans and stuff. Was still no this this has been a bag dad. Yeah. So I was at the same we ended up. The team was at the same house for for both deployments that I was at, which was just south of of the Tigris River, just south of the green zone there. So it's a pretty It was a really cool compound. I had an amazing range set

up there. I had a thousand yard maybe maybe it's nine hundred meter something like that range going, just really cool, uh set up. We had a big flat range for the training the jun d's and stuff. Yeah, so I was glad to get out of ballog for sure.

developing targets for the team to go prosecute. So you know, you're doing everything from reading uh intel reports that are coming from the agency, from other teams, uh regular Army, and and you're obviously anything your own team is is producing and you're you're in a lot of ways an analyst. You put that information together, you start developing a target packet and and uh, it's it's a really interesting job,

you know. And and part of it is is you know you're yuh planning out that uh you know, you do a lot of not a lot, but doing the doing the uh Terrade models, like real detailed Terrade models, so so that the team can see which building you're hitting, how you're gonna how you're gonna park the hum V is how you're gonna flow through the buildings that kind of stuff. It's it's really a really dynamic kind of thing,

and there's a lot to it. The course itself was like three months long, maybe maybe more, I can't remember, but it's at Bragg there and they go over a lot of stuff. It's you know, you learn photography, uh, you learn like mapping software, so you can do you can do a lot of interesting things with with mapping software as far as uh, you know, figuring out points of observation and and and uh you know infield points and stuff like that. Uh. And so you learn that

kind of stuff. You learn and how to how to pull intelligence off of them, you know, from the agency and everywhere, like I was saying, but also from from just open source stuff and how to how to do that and how to interact with like the sauda's and and then it goes down to prosecuting the target and then and then the aftermath doing the s S and you know, how do you exploit the the information and the stuff that you're picking up off the objective and

that kind of thing. So really, uh, a really dynamic kind of it's kind of a high h end up being pretty highly trained, I guess after that is what I what I would say, it's one of the probably one of the longest courses, and uh you know sef I would think, apart from the Q course, about as long as as uh as probably the level three course, I would guess, but you get a little bit of that too.

to get ready before we before we deployed again. But we got a new team sergeant who was uh he was a stud and he was from from the stale. He was from A one to five. The name is Robert Pittman. He was later killed UH working as a contractor or. He was working for.

of thing. You know. It was he had the discipline and uh, you know, and but but he also what not only is tactically proficient, he was a stud with PT you know, so he kind of he kind of had the skill set combined with the only thing I can really think of a of a trade of a good leader is like self self assured and self confidence. You know, there's and and uh, just know, just being sure that you're right when you're making a decision. And

that's a that's a difficult thing, I think. And then and he had that, you know, he was he wasn't he wasn't arrogant, he you know, he was he was just confident that he knew the way forward and that you needed to keep pushing forward. It's just like when you go in the house. You know, you don't stop in the doorway. You push, you push through and and you make decisions on the fly and you just trust your training and your instincts.

And so it took me a while to kind of find my footing because I was pretty intimidated by Pitt and I don't I have a difficult relationship with authority in general.

you know, calculus and and stuff like that. Yeah, so I expected, I expected to do well. But but apparently that turned out to be a big thing back at the company. And I hadn't even told him about it. They heard about it secondhand, and so I earned some credit that way. But but I also I had had one of my first big mix missteps with him in that first just a couple of weeks of Taji and we went out on a mission and uh, we're going to go capture this guy. And I hadn't developed a

target packet the previous team had. He was some shithead who was who was out there and and and this guy had This is going to sound silly, but the guy had air conditioning at his house and if you know about Iraq, no one has air conditioning, especially like in the country, but this guy has air conditioning. And you could see on the imagery all these air conditioning ducts all over his house and stuff. Well, you know, you don't just get that by being a general good

person Iraqi. Uh And and I don't remember what all else intelligence we had on him, but I remember I remember that specifically, and so we we our first mission. I think it was one of our first missions. It was going to be kind of a test of the team where we did a foot movement on foot from the from Taji from the base out to this guy's place and ended up being I don't know what it was five miles or something. I can't remember it was. It was just a grueling, grueling ordeal that we that

we put ourselves through. But uh, you know, I want to make sure that I that I mentioned this because I want to also show people that I I make lots of mistakes. Uh So, anyways, we're during one of our you know, our movements. We're walking down we were actually moving on a road at this point, and uh, I had my PBS fifteen's you know, they're real heavy. That's that's a dual night vision one. They're real heavy. I had taken them off because my neck was getting tired.

I put them in my pouch. I hadn't put them in there properly, and in the little pouch, they said, and they fell out. And and uh yeah, so half a mile half a mile down the road, we uh I discovered that I didn't have my nods anymore. And uh, boy, I tell you what, that's a that's a kind of feeling I don't want to ever have again. Yeah, it's just that feeling of Jesus, How how could I be so stupid? How could I, uh, you know, just do that? And and because it's a big it's a big deal.

People maybe don't know it's a big deal when you lose night vision on a back on Fort Bragg or anywhere and a training mission. But when you're in country like that, and and you know, that's a that's a pretty pretty damn big deal. Anyways, when I was able to run back and find him, and a guy went with me, and we found him, thank god. I don't know what would happened to me if if we hadn't found him. I don't know if I got a court martial or what. I probably would have been kicked out

of groove. But anyways, so that was that was something that that Pitt. You know, I sort of lost credit after my gaining some credit with him, but he was

he was a hell of a leader. And and eventually I found you know, they moved us back to bad Dad, and I got in my groove as a fox, and I worked in the morning tonight doing intel and I'm not joking from them from the moment I woke up to the to the moment I went to bed, I was reading reports and and I basically I don't know what, I don't know how what what clicked, what what switch flipped in my brain? But I had never I'd never

really considered myself that hard of a worker. I would say, I don't think I had shown that kind of tendency towards that that direction. But something flipped and and I just just poured everything into into finding shitheads and and uh and that's then we started rolling basically just hitting targets all the time. And you know, as I mentioned before, we we've turned into a DA team and we we kept pretty busy.

guys are really getting in it. We I was kind of jealous of that, but we were doing we were doing hits, and but we were doing it in a different way because we're going in super fast and you know, the middle of the night, and we're we're blowing doors and we're snatching guys and and getting out of there, and so it was it was a little bit different kind of a of warfare, I guess for us than

it was for some of those guys. But it was still you know, you know, I had a lot of times, a lot of missions where I was pretty sure I was going to die. Uh. You know, we got hit, we took an I d like everybody else has done. And uh again, I thought I was going to die on that. But I wasn't even injured. A couple couple of teammates were or one teammate and a couple of

turps or one of our turps. But you know, We were doing as much as we could to try to do our part to you know, clear the battle space of guys who are doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing. And by that time things were starting to shift. Now you're starting to see the conops. Oh your con ops

not doesn't have the right font. You know, we started that started to creep in right kind of over that deployment, and ah, it was started to shift towards you couldn't so you couldn't put our mission is to go kill this guy X, the X guy whatever, kill or capture.

You couldn't put that anymore. It was it was capture or detained, which is like the same thing, right, But the mission started to shift as the deployment wore on from a war to essentially a police action, and the emphasis started to become on, hey, are you gathering evidence that this person is a bad guy? You know, what kind of case can we make against them in court? That kind of thing. That really started to put a sour taste in my mouth and a lot of guys too.

I D and and and uh, you know, I'm sick. Anyways, I won't go into the details, but I was pretty upset about it, and I was determined to find out who did it, and you know, as the fox, I felt that was my responsibility. But they kind of pulled us off line and the commanded and they let another team go in and prosecute the target ran out of my.

shot who didn't need shot. There wasn't there wasn't, you know, just just shooting even for just a hell of it. And and really that brings me kind of the next point in the crossroads in my life. Uh, that there was really impactful. I guess I didn't really realize at the time, but when I but now is it, as you know, more of an adult, I'd look back on that, and I think that was that was a pretty big deal.

One day, on the second on our second deployment there, we started taking uh heavy mortar, heavy rocket fire and uh, we're so we're our compound situated right by the oil refinery in Baghdad, and we would take the compound would take rockets because everybody dow we were there. They thought we were an an agency team or something like that there the bad guys did. So we take rockets and mortars and stuff like that. And the oider refinery would

take rockets and orders. And I don't know if if they got it because we were there, or we got it because they were there, what, But regardless, one of these days we started taking uh incoming pretty heavy and clothes and and and so we're looking around trying to see what's going on, and and it's this is these are rockets, for sure, not just not just mortars, big big explosions, rocking the whole area, the whole house, you know. And uh and and somebody yells out, hey, there, we

got a spotter on the roof. And you know, you guys know that somebody on the roof with a cell phone during a during a rocket attack typically means yeah, that's a spotter, right, yeah. And they're calling and they're and they're directing fire onto you. So I get I get grabbed the Mark thirteen, which I which was my sniper rifle, and I always had set up and I had my whole rage range cards and you know, uh, I had the whole area laid out right. And so

we see this guy, he's across the river. I want to say, he was only three hundred meters something like that. And uh and the captain gets up on the spotter and he says, and you know we and we of course I DM and draw down on him, you know, And I got my I got my dope tiled, which

I think might've been point blank at that point. But the team start of comes over the radio says take the shot, and I'm on the Mark thirteen and and and I'm brought ready to shoot this guy standing there with the cell phone on the top, and he's looking at us. You know, of course he is, because there's like explosions going on, you know, he's trying to see what's going on. Well, something kind of just clicks in

my head. I was like, that's a lot of that's a lot of rockets, because it was like at that point, it was like four or five maybe that had come in like, man, something's not quite right. And so I didn't shoot him, and I put around into like the ground, you know, kind of away from him, and he went away. And it turns out that it was a dang the

artillery unit from that big army base. So it's down in Southwest bag down there, they're putting one fifty fives into a into a palm grove just on the other side of the or refinery because they're just doing terrain denial there and they never told us, and we thought they're yeah, we thought they were walking rockets onto our onto our compound under our house. You know. So anyways,

kind of a long story. But as I think about it now, like yeah, yeah, and if i'd have shot that guy, uh, you know, how would my life have taken you know, a different turn. Yeah, because in hindsight,

he obviously wasn't doing anything wrong, but probably not. Anyways, you know, some of those guys, a lot of them are doing something wrong, but you know he he wasn't, uh, And so anyways, I look at that, I kind of I kind of consider, as I said, my life has been sort of the direction of taken has been almost as much stuff I didn't do and stuff I did do right, And that was one of them.

Because I don't if I do shoot him, And he's just an idiot who's standing by a convoy with a cell phone, you know, and like those are decisions that people had to make all the time, and they never knew if they were right or wrong until after the fact, and sometimes they didn't even know that.

h MS guys. But they're the not the soones of the sh that's the sha militia. And you know, really, by the time of our second deployment, these guys are the Iraqis are fighting each other as much or more as they're fighting us. I mean, those guys are doing unspeakable things to each other, and people maybe don't realize that, but the kind of stuff that we're finding out about and whatnot, I mean just just sub human behavior on a on a lot of the part those guys there.

And that's why I call them shitheads, you know. Uh, I gotta say one just as an aside. I'm always jealous of the World War Two guys who who get together with the German you know, guys at some reunion when they're sixty years old, and they will shipping about their day, you know, on their their buddies and whatnot.

You hear about that kind of stuff, And I'm like, that's never going to happen for us, you know, because of because of the kind of behavior that those that they were doing, the kind of the kind of things they were doing to each other, that's just not we We're just never going to have that. And I'm kind of kind of jealous of those guys, the World War Two guys for that and maybe the Vietnam guys. I don't really know as much. But anyways, Uh, I would

tell that. I would tell the guys when we got on target, we'd snatch up who we're looking for or whatever, and and I would I would tell everybody else, Hey, if you stop killing each other the America and we'll leave, We'll get out of here, because by that time, we all just want to go home, you know, why not? And and you guys know how it is, a lot of those guys didn't. A lot of the Iraqis didn't

want us to leave. They want us there because they knew there was some stability with us there, and they knew what was going to happen with the Iraqi army when they when they would take over when we left, So you know, what are you going to do?

her counterinsurgency and somewhat of a police police action. And and you know that's when they had the surge going on and the and the regular army. They were using the army as nation building at that point basically, which is which is the wrong thing to do. But so

I got off active duty. I joined nineteenth Group because my my buddy had said that his data had been in the in the Guard s F and had a really cool experience and and I wasn't ready to sort of you know, put that all behind me, and you know, for the longest time I wished I was deployed again. I mean even back and when I was in Colorado and but not. All I wanted to do is be be deployed again. It sounds crazy, uh, but uh, but

that's you know, that's how it was. You know, Uh, there was a certain Uh I tell people that it's a there's a a very interesting purity of purpose there where you're you don't worry about the power bill, you don't worry about how you're going to feed yourself so much. Uh, you don't worry about much other than the mission, doing the mission, keeping yourself alive, uh, trying to take bad guys off the battlefield, and and you know, trying to trying to keep your teammates alive and help out as

many as many people as you can. You don't have that back in the States. And that's part of the that's part of the lure of being deployed. And then part of it is just there's just something about it. Like you guys know, there's something about about combat and the deployment that that you can't you can't explain to anybody else who hasn't done it. It's just it's just something. But nineteenth group was I was served in there with some very impressive people, some guys that I think very

highly of. The overall experience, I wasn't impressed with. It's like, can you name me one part time NFL quarterback? That's kind of how I look at it, right. It's being Special Forces is it's it's it's something that is like a full time you're dedicated to that task kind of thing. And being in the Colorado Guard was a little bit different too. The Texas guys had an amazing experience as a hell of a unit down there. They're well funded, they're they're well regarded by the state, and you know,

they keep them at that time. This is all this is all nearly twenty years ago now, but I had definitely had some good experiences and met a lot of good people in the Guard. And I didn't to play with the Guard. I was. I ended up training training up people who are going to selection. So I was like a Sapsey instructor is kind of how I ended up.

I can think of. Anyways, it was just I don't know, I don't I'm trying to I don't want to say anything too negative. So but it wasn't my favorite experience for sure.

this rifle I made. And I had also made the stock for Remington seven hundred, and I caught their eye and so they hired me. And this was in you know, late two thousand and seven, and so I went straight from not straight, I mean I had a summer basically where I was just kind of chilling and working on this rifle. But then I went I went into working for mag Gool after that, and right into the firearms industry and then doing the guard thing on the side.

Obvious one one week and a months deal, but that was very incredible. No one knew who Magpoll was back then. That was like just as the p mag was, I mean not even really gaining steam, just kind of starting

to pick up. And I worked on the Masada, which was one of the most anticipated rifles at the time, and so Magpull went from it was in the process of going from like this no name, nothing company to yeah they made good stuff, but now they're doing this Masada rifle which became the Bushmaster ACR, and they're doing all these cool things. They got the p mag which everyone is you know, has a million of now, and so I was really on the ground not quite the

ground floor, but you know, pretty early on. And they're in that process of the sort of the growth and the really exciting products coming out of magpool.

on me. And I was getting ready to go become a sniper for a contractor like I don't know, Triple Canopy or somebody, and then Magpull offered me that position, and I was him and and hat and my brother told me, hey, you were you were born to do this, and so that's what I so I took the Magpool position, even though it didn't pay much, because you as an SF guy, you can make a lot of money contract and sure in those days. Uh So, it was a

that was a life changing experience for me. I worked with some amazing industrial designers there surprisingly not a lot of those guys had any kind of real firearms expertise as far as like the handling, the usage side of the Indian user side, you know what I mean. Uh So, I was one of the guys that they leaned on

for that. And then gradually I learned solid Works and I learned the solid Works which is the three D design software, and then I became part of the design team, and I've worked on a lot of the different products that they that they put out, and then worked on mainly the three to eight version of the Masada rifle, which still has not entered commercial production, but is is coming from our company, So it's been in progress like

nearly twenty years now. But I was very, very lucky, and that set me up to then transition to our own company with my you know, my brother and my business partner who was a fifth group guy with me way back even into the course, John Lucas. So before I finally got out of the Guard, I went to selection, you know, Delta selection, and I had to give it a shot. And and you know, that's kind of one of the high points or interesting points to me in

my life. And uh, I didn't. I didn't really. I don't know that I was really dedicated or really that I really wanted to be there that bad. But I knew that I had to give it a shot because I was I was getting out of the Guard, so it was like my last chance, you know. I knew I wasn't going to going back to active duty. Uh And so I tried that out and I basically self selected and I quit and you know, went back to my civilian life at that point.

head and I quit. And I've always been a pretty hot, like sort of higher level anxiety kind of guy, and just kind of I just thought, Ah, these guys, you know, I'm not what they're looking for. And also I didn't really I thought all they did was siki me and I really wasn't in love with that idea, you know, after doing it for a while. So h yeah, that's that's kind of the gist of that. But it was it really just I'm not proud of quitting, but it also just wasn't my path. Yes, it was.

you've interviewed. I'm like, man, that'd have been really cool. Yeah, you know, it isn't just a bunch of knunckle draggers, you know doing CQB. They got a lot of cool stuff going on, you know, a lot of interesting things. So I kind of I kind of was bummed about that a little bit. But at the same time, you know, my my path was set, Like you know, my brother

was right. I think I was born to to be a designer, you know, and and for that in that time, it was firearms and it still is so and I still I still designed the products for KG.

which was which is our boat lift. It's a little boat mob that you put on the Remickton seven hundred for for people who can't do any kind of permanent modifications to their rifles, their snake rifles, and and so we all basically just found this company and my brother funded it, and then I lived off of my you know, savings from combat pay and this, you know, working the Magpole and stuff like that, and so for we started

in my garage and and that at the first. At first I did everything, you know, I machined parts and design stuff and whatnot. And and then once our little boat lift things started selling. My mom started working for free for us, and I was working for free, you know, And and it was just one of those deals where we just kind of gradually picked up steam just over the years, you know.

There's a lot of interest in firearms. And then you had, you know, without getting too much into politics, he had Obama become president and there was a lot of anti gun talks, so people were spending crazy money on firearms and everything. Uh So yeah, I was we just you know, I worked my ass off. Everyone worked their ass off.

My brother was still contracting, pulling in money. I was spending my savings down and then so then I ended up using my gi bi able to go back to college and I studied philosophy, going for a philosophy degree. And then I was getting money because you get a stipend as part of the g I build. I was paying for my housing and stuff. Uh. And then I went to contracting with Blackbirds, like I had mentioned earlier. But that that and that kept U that kept us going,

you know. And and I you know, I lived like a college kid, ah and didn't take didn't take money. I mean it was years you know, ramen noodles and and not not spending money on stuff. And uh. And you know, I've I've been I feel like I've been rewarded life is. I feel like life has rewarded me, uh for for hard work and then some of the some of the hard choices I made when I raised my hand and you know, said yeah, I'll do it.

they sell for around four million. Now I still can't afford one, but I wanted to get this replica. And I talked to these guys and anyways, turned out that we were taught about just going down there and buying them out, this whole company that makes these little plants. Anyways, the company was, it wasn't the deal didn't happen. It

just didn't come together. But we thought, man, we could we could just make our own, which was a really neat a really neat thought, and one of the dumbest things we ever thought about, you know, all and wrapped up in one you know. But so by that, you know a few years later, this maybe I don't know, four or five years ago, I'm kind of getting burned out from just working morning tonight on the on the firearms side, and you know, I didn't have social life

and that kind of stuff. I was, you know, I was very fortunate in twenty fifteen I met my uh now my wife, and that's most that's been one of those other like really defining points in my life. So that's been a big deal. But but other than that, you know, and she's been amazing and and sort of, uh, I've sort of become a little more balanced. But before that, it was just I mean, work and and and uh

and exercise. That was my day, you know. So I needed to step away, and I kind of I kind of started stepping back from running the whole company, the kre GEE, which is Kinetic Research Group, and the and the kinetic comes from obviously, you know, kinetic energy, but also kinetic strikes. H. So I started to push more into the aircraft side. We said, hey, we could just build our own uh design to build our own aircraft as replica. And so that's what I've been working on.

And I started with, ah, you know, all these books you see behind me, that's virtually every aircraft design book that's ever been written. And so just started going through those books and and learning and uh.

think it's too short to do one thing. And but also and some people that's not that you know, they don't feel that way. That's okay, but but I think it's also you need to always be challenging yourself and you need to keep your you need to keep your brain functioning by by learning new things and and just taking one of one of these big risks is kind of one of those things. You know, like, you know,

you could do it whatever you wanted. You know, you could take up you know, the piano or something, or try to learn a new language or something like that. But I think that's very important in life.

don't understand this. And it's taken me days of thinking about it and working working through a problem a bunch of times, and then just having that tenacity really and and I never really had that before. And I think that probably came.

your dad, I know. But uh, you know, you guys, everyone knows Victor Frankel whatever, or they look it up. But essentially, if you have a purpose, you can overcome mountainous obstacles to achieve your end goal. So anybody could do it if they want. And so I want that. I want people to think about that. And like, you know, I'm just this. You know, I came from a poor family. No one had had any education. Uh you know, my parents were teenagers essentially when I was born, Uh, you know,

pretty humble beginnings. And and I don't have any special gifts, you know, I don't have anything like uh Russell Crowe and that when movie beautiful mind you know, it's just a little bit of smarts and and the desire and and just that willingness to be uncomfortable and feel like you're an idiot. Kind of like, I don't get this,

but I got to push through it. And that kind of leads me to to one thing that I that I I want to want to convey to people is that, like a lot of people now talk about how the American dream is dead, this and that and the other thing. You hear that, and it's what they what they're trying to say is that you know, oh, this new generation is never going to own a house and have two kids, and you know, that's what the American dream is. Whatever,

that's not the American dream. I'm I'm living the American dream. And you know, you look at me. I'm not that remarkable of a guy. You know, nothing's really standing out about me as you look at me. But yet I've been able to shape my life in the in the way and to the potential that I feel like I'm capable. And that's what the American dream is. It's to shape your life, uh, to the direction and to the extent that you want to and that to reach your fullest potential.

right way, is how I view it. It's not something that you chase after the happiness, Ah, having that happiness is like uh money or wealth. Happiness ensues from doing the right things in life as a as a living living a good person, living in a good life, and wealth ensues from doing the right things in relation to the market right, which which is finance. People refer to as the market. The market is everything from the from the butcher shop to to to you know, the sock exchange.

The market is all the stuff that the money is sort of involved in. But you do the right things in either of those arenas and you're going to the happiness is going to ensue and the wealth is going to ensue.

But then also so shifting back a bit, you know, I mentioned we're poor my family's ideas of success, from my dad's idea of success was having ferraris and that kind of thing, having money to be able to, you know, do what you want, but also to kind of have the fun stuff in life. Right. But so I never I never learned it. I never learned about money because it was always a there was always an attempt to

reach those things without being able to afford them. It's basically poor people behavior continues that continues to this day. Rights by buying toys on credit essentially. So when I was in the Q course, there was a guy who one day came in and said, hey, I just made four thousand dollars in the stock market, and he had been an investor, he had learned about investing and all this kind of stuff. And I thought, oh my gosh, And.

thousand dollars something like that in the market. And so that kind of kicked me into geared learning about money, and I think everybody should learn about money and circling back now, one of the books that was very influential for me was actually Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and the dude's kind of gone off the rails. It seems like maybe now I don't really following too much, but uh,

Robert Kiyosaki, that book. I wouldn't push anybody to get any other ones, but that book, it's it's served to frame my mindset about how money works and how you build wealth. So you got Victor Frankel, and then and then Chicks and Me high on sort of this personal development side, and then and then you have uh, Rich Dad,

Poor Dad, and and a host of others. I mean, I've read so many books about money, but uh, those are those are some very influential ones as far as that, because like it or not, finances are a big part of life, and it's a big part of having a happy life is having your finances in order. Yeah, so I hope those are some good, some good recommendations for people. Another one on the finance side is, uh, it's called The Richest Man in Babylon. And you know, that's an

old book. It's a it's a yeah, it's a it's a fictional you know, tail, but it's it's the lessons are invaluable and essentially it's even on this list of topics, i'd come up all right, had I wrote down to mention. Really, what what he wants people to do is invest ten percent of their income right off the top. Invest it, you know, put that money away and make that and don't put it in the safe, don't put it in its savings account, don't put it in a bank. Invest

it so that it makes money for you. You know. Compounding is is the what they call it, the eighth wonder of the world or whatever the other next wonder is. Compounding interest is even Einstein said that compounding is such a powerful force, uh, that you need to get it started. And and saving money is just not enough to try to build wealth. So you know, I would ask that anybody listening to this take ten percent and before you do anything else, Even if you're twenty five and you

think that you got lots of time. You don't really you know, take ten percent and put it, put it in an index fund. That's what I do. I'm not giving investing advice. What I do is I put it in an index fund. You don't, I don't buy a bitcoin, don't do silly shit like that or speculative type stuff. You know, don't try to get rich quick. Take your ten percent and put it in. Put it in an index fund, a low cost index fund. I use Vanguard. I put it into vooh, which is Vanguard's S and

P five hundred index fund. And and let that stuff compound. But that book is is very influential. That's that's the richest man in babylone.

I've learned from from actual, you know, life experience. But one thing that that I would like to for for sure add in to people, add into this interview is that I think, I think that as a society, we have a lack of, uh of an appreciation for the importance of exercise. And and that's in all ages, but especially as you know you're past you get past twenty

five or whatever. I look at it as exercise is to to the adult mind and body, what reading is to like a child's mind, right, It's reading does something to your mind when you're a kid. It isn't just the pleasure of reading and learning facts. It's the actual deciphering the symbols on the paper, and you know, maintaining the information you're taking in the whole process. It's it's

very important. I think I see as as developing the young mind, and and exercise is sort of that for your body and your mind as an as an adult. And and if you can, you know, anybody's listening to this, you know, get a little strength training and and some some cardio work in and try them once a week. Ah, run or whatever, walk up in a steep hill with weight to the point where you are breathing very hard, where you're out of breath, you feel like you're out

of breath, and just get that exercise. It's done. I feel like it's done. Essentially a miracle for me because you know, when I got out of the army, I was I had a difficult transition to civilian life. You know, what's that here? Nice to have this, you know, I lost a lot of bodies, a lot of guys from group in the warm mhm when uh m hmm, when I got out, I was pretty I guess you'd say resentful of of civilians and h m m hm, m h. It's hard to explain, so forgive me.

But so I was pretty resentful for you know a lot of that stuff that all the stuff we're talking about right here, and so I was pretty you know, kind of angry, and I've I've had a I've had a like a condition which is perfectionism, since I was pretty young, which it sounds like something you put on your resume to strength.

out too. They're doing stuff on their own. But I honestly, I don't know. I think I think I think it's again as the SF stuff, it's just you just push forver. You know, you just have to do it. You have to make mission.

English shotgun. I mean, you guys have heard of like party shotguns probably and stuff like that, two hundred thousand dollars shotguns. Well, you know, I've worked on stuff that's been to was intended to be to that level, and that hasn't seen the light of day, partially because it's not that's not a good business decision. But yeah, some it has handicapped me in some ways for sure. But but I think again the military stuff, the s F side says, hey, this has to be done, you know,

you just do it. And and also I can kind of rest assured that I I feel like I pretty much outwork anybody in the industry.

blow doors. It was no stand back that kind of stuff. It was I would have a uniform covered in parts of duct tape, the little adhesive of duct tape, you know, to be all over me. That that kind of thing. And and we didn't know back then, and that that was a dumb idea, you know. And and so I think there might have been some of that because we blew a lot of a lot of doors, blowing walls, blowing you know, everything, a lot of a lot of demo. Uh So I think that that kind of factored in,

and then that kind of sealed over time. I think as part of it, part of it was, you know, meeting my uh, you know, my my current uh she's my fiance car my wife. But meeting her and and having this amazing relationship has as that's really helped too. You know, It's just just I don't know, I don't know, I can't say exactly what the mechanism is, but that's been a big help.

my life. Uh And and you know, I want to tie in something here that I want to I wanted to mention to people too, is is, you know, for people out there who maybe haven't found their partner yet, or or who are looking to looking for a better partner, or they feel like during a bad relationship, is you know, take a look in the mirror and realize that you only deserve the kind of partner that you are to the other person. And I don't that took me a long time to come to that realization, I would say.

And you know, people have a tendency to think, ah, this person is not good enough for me without thinking, hey are you? Are you even that you know, pleasant to be around? And for a lot of you know, my life, I don't think I always have pleasant to be around. So yeah, you know, I didn't meet my you know, my spouse until I was like thirty seven ish something like that. And I if we'd have met before that actually would have been able to stand and

be around me. So I want people to, you know, just kind of think about that is like turn that turn that magnifying glass back on yourself and say, hey, what what kind of person am I to be around? What kind of you know, what kind of love do I put out there? What kind of affection do I put out there into the world? And you know, give what you want to receive essentially.

So we're waiting till we get the aircraft in the air before we're really uh cool, start pushing things because we're trying to sell these things, you know. But we also aircraft industries had a long history of people promising taking deposits.

But but we're here and we got lots of toys, our stuff, we got other stuff, you know, and like I said all kinds of we can have all kinds of fun.

So he might have some more of that stuff. Sorry, I don't. I can't really tell how he won five compares. We always thought of those guys as a bunch of prima donnas, you know when I was on, when I was on just a regular team and and we were doing direct shack, direct action stuff, and we you know, our our team started came from me one five, so we felt like we were just as good as them.

And how they compared to Delta, I have no idea, but uh, the stuff I hear about Delta is pretty it's pretty next level.

got so interested in it. And of course the course Air was wash an incredibly powerful engine with a with an incredibly large efficient propeller and and quite an armament and when you really look at what they're doing back then, uh, fighter performance is uh, largest most powerful engine you can find, the smallest airframe with the lowest drag that that can tolerate, you know, the landing conditions and stuff like that, because you still need to have some kind of low speed performance,

especially land on a carrier. And then and then your armament and uh. And so the course air was a was a hell of a fighter. And then I mean there's a lot of nuance to it too, the size of the Alerons and you know whatnot. But I don't I don't know that I would say it's the best fighter. If you ask the Brits, the Spitfire is the best fighter,

and they won't. They will not here I have word. Otherwise, you ask an American, it's the Mustang generally speaking, Uh, most people say it's a Mustang over the Course Air. So I can't. I can't say one is better than the other. The course air was was certainly amazing, and I'd love to have one. I'd love to fly one, that's for sure.