1000+ Missions with the 75th Ranger Regiment | Nicholas Moore (throwback episode)

that we'll get into tonight. So, Nicholas, thank you for joining us.

But the whole thing was, you know, I had a recruiter, you know that just based on the lifestyle that we had, you know, playing sports and being active and out outdoor activities, hunting fish and all that stuff. He goes, Man, you guys love the Army, but you'll never be happy if you don't pursue the Ranger Regiment. And so you know that was kind of well what's that? And you know, so you do a little bit of research and you're like, okay, well that's definitely what I want to do.

a Navy family. And then me and my brother decided we were both going to join the army and be rangers, and you know, so it was fun. Uh, you know at that part of it. My grandpa didn't talk to me for like three weeks because he was mad we didn't join the Navy.

our careers split apart. I stayed at second and then he moved down to third for a while and then you know, when it is some time in the big Army and finished his career as an ROTC instructor at the University of Kansas.

It's always that that mental challenge through some of the things, you know, can I make it to the end? And you know when you do, you're you're a better human for it, and you're a better ranger all the way around. And you have, you know, a starting point to learn what suck is.

and we just thought it was some kind of weird, you know, false motivational thing that.

asking that? And then you know, forty five minutes or so later, you know, a does anybody have parents that work a Pentagon? And you know, everybody's like, why would I raise my hand out? Want to get singled out

for something? And you know then they're kind of like, hey, no, this is you know, serious, and they realized that we weren't believing them, and so they kind of called a couple of guys to go forward and just kind of see the news feed on the on a TV and for about five minutes and then kind of came back and say, hey, they're not lying, it's this is real. And so we have one guy who raised his hand and say, yeah, my dad works at the Pentagon, and you know, they said, well you need to call him.

And so that really messed with him. It was a kid out of three some five and luckily his dad was out of the office. I think he was at Fort Lee, Virginia that day, Bud. He you know, when he came back to work on the twelfth, he didn't have an office. Holy shit. Yeah.

first and second are laughing, and the guys from third are like why you you know why you laugh and it's not funny. We're not a part of this. And it's like, well, guess what, Ourpatalians haven't gone yet. Yeah. Yeah.

miss it all. And but you know, when you when you start thinking about the amount of time that it was going to take to put everything over there, you know, and get it in place, it was just a matter of you know, when when's it going to be our turn and is there going to be anything left because the regiment's going to rotate everybody through at least once.

to look like and then when was our window going to come to to go and was there still going to be anything to do? When we got there. Yeah, you know, and then twenty years later it's still going on.

stands right now. You know, we saw to go do rudder wing Bilats and and all the training that you know was normally you know, gearing up for for all that stuff, and so you know we did and then uh Vico Bco led the push for Second Italian because at that time it was uh, basically you know, there was only the need for like basically one company. We were still sitting you know, split between Canaharn Vogram and

that was about it. And then you know, everybody realized that this was gonna be the long fight, and so then we started uh kind of pushing out and doing the expansion for the American footprint and setting up bases and and all that stuff, and that's kind of what we ended up doing our first deployment. And then after we'd been there for oh, I don't know, maybe a month or so, they rolled in with the rest of

the battalions. So AKO and SICCO came in and kind of helped expand the footprint and all the fun What was you know, like post taku Gar, post taku Gar and you know, Operations Anaconda. There really was nothing going on in Afghanistan. You know, it was basically you know, when you look at what was going on, you know, you hear about one seventy five and Roberts Ridge and then three seven fives jumping on Rhino and doing all that stuff. You know, we're going over there thinking, you know,

it's gonna be game on. It's spring summer, and everybody's gonna be fighting. And that was, you know, complete opposite.

were shutting it down. But it was really cool because you know, at the time, you know, he could tell you what everything was on Bogger and you know, all the remnants of what was left. So that was I mean for a history lesson, that was kind of cool.

and ripped us. And you know, so when it came time, you know, throughout the year that it was we were going to at least go one more time, it was you know, Iraq was ramping up, and so it was like, okay, well who's going to go to Afghanistan? And so Charlie Cookmanty got picked to go to Afghanistan. And the whole preface was for them to go was to shut down the special ops. You know, flipprint over there, and then kind of if things did crank off in Iraq, then

they were going to join us over in Iraq. And you know, they ended up staying for six months. You know, they did their three month deployment plus the Iraq and you know and stuff, so they got stuck in Afghanistan for six months. So let's just say Manning retention to Charlie Company was terrible after everybody got home.

the C seventeen, you got your gas masks strapped to your hip and you're wearing your mop suit.

So they're stuck sitting out there in it anduntil the sun comes up and then they can at least try and attempt to get back. And so it was interesting. You know, we had five fifty cord from all the tents to the latrines and to the chow hall, so the guys could follow the string and and you know walk around in the brown out.

across the border. And then you rolling in dog tired, and the commander comes out of his tent and he's like, hey, pack your stuff. We're leaving in three hours and we're gonna go do this. And I was like, oh, that's funny.

just slow moving and trying to navigate. And you know, only the combat arms units have night vision because that's the priority, right, So you know, it was just kind of like how does this even happen?

trash pit area on the west side of town. And then we were just gonna run in a few blocks off the desert and established blocking positions around the hospital while one five a company from one seven to five was gonna skirt all the way around on the east and then come in from the north and then bringing the you know, the big guns on the trucks and just basically you know, lock it all down until we had gotten her out and gotten confirmation and recovery of

everybody else that was off those trucks. And uh, I was we were only on the ground for like three and a half hours and it was all done. Yeah, I mean by the time the seals came in on the hospital and did the whole uh you know, recovery of her, we had just basically put the blocking positions on the ground. We hadn't even gotten the established yet. As far as how fast that that whole thing happened, it was a matter of just moments. Yeah, And because no, but it was fun, you know, it was fun to

be a part of it. And you know, I guess we were saying earlier this is you know, there's all these things. It's just another day at the office until you get later in life and then you start talking to people about it and then it's like wow, uh, you know, it's kind of a historic, you know, event that we've got to be a part of, you know, the first successful pow rescue and over forty years. Yeah. Yeah.

find your friends and Once in five and see how the everything went on their aspect of it when they rolled back in.

his lower left leg. So, you know, other than that, it was it was a you know, it was a it was a great traditional you know, typical ranger training op. You know, do you remember everything?

who could hit this first? And you know at this is at the big command level and this is you know, what's been filtered down through the company commander at the time was that it was in the hundred first sale or area of operation and they were going to take

like a week to plant it out. And that what didn't make you know, the powers that be happy, and so it kind of came to the special opsite and you know, we just said, well we can hit it tomorrow and so we you know, just work through our normal off cycle and planned it out, rehearsed it, and you know it basically other than Matt getting hurt. You know, it worked, you know, the same way it doesn't training, but even to that part, you know, we trained, you

know casually play and all that stuff. So it just sucked that, you know, it actually happened.

the battle damage assessment afterwards. It gave a rough count and you know, handed the objective over to the hundred first when they came into take control of it, and so it was kind of interesting when they came back, you know, kind of get the picture of, you know, what it looked like in the daylight.

it was fun. I mean, you know, like I wrote in my books, you know, so a lot of the people, you know, in villages at like ten thousand feet, you know, they're still thinking that the Russians are in there. Yeah, and so you know, just to see the disconnect in that country at you know, at that you know, at that primitive point, was like, uh no, they haven't been here for like ten winters. Now at least.

that they've ever been on. And so you get guys up there, you know, ten thousand feet or above, and guys are coming with altitude sickness and they're just not being able to adjust as easily as some And you know, Manning is still low and Charlie Company at the time because it's just coming off the Iraq thing. Guys are like,

now I'm out of here. We got hosed over and so we're we're in there with five man squads, so we're still carrying all the gear for nine and so, you know, the only nice thing is we went in with no body armor. We were just carrying chess racks and rocks sacks. But the rock secks were still weighing in about eighty eighty to ninety pounds, depending on you know what is in there.

back on and and load up. And so you know, I didn't get a shower and uh so we roll in there and we hit this this draw off the uh off the conar and uh, you know, seals are hit the wrong side of the valley because intel's just not very good in Afghanistan at this point. It's just you know, it's human so it's there's a huge margin

of error in it. And they didn't want to walk across the valley and go up, so they just called a helo to come pick them up from one side and carry him to the other because they didn't want to walk it. Yea in a nutshell, I guess that's the nice way to put it short.

you can quit all you want. You ain't coming off the mountain. They're not sending a helicopter for you.

like the the introduction, if you will, to IEDs. You know, at that point, you know, it was starting to get armored vehicles and it's like, why are we driving around with this? You know, what's the what's the big deal? You know, they're like popcan size explosives and you know, like within a year, you know, we're they're planting you know, two thousand pounds of hme E under the roadbeds and blowing tanks apart.

you know, put it down and just go. And there was a tank that had been sitting in the median and they traversed the cannon to look at something with thermal off the cannon and they brought the barrel across that a zero plane and it was right at the same time. But we came in with the truck and

almost killed the gunner out of my truck. You know, he was in a medically induced coma for about forty five days and his face was broken in about thirteen places, turning mark nineteen on the front on the lead truck into Basically the receiver was a banana and the barrel broke in three places. The strike plate we never found,

and you know, it basically almost totaled the truck. It took us two days to get the turp, you know, reconfigured with stripped parts off other vehicles and put it back together.

But you know, there's a tank sitting in the media and right right it happened to be the you know, I've just had chosen to drive in the left lane as the lead truck, you know, and we hit it didn't damage the tank, I mean, we scratched the paint a little bit, but the damage to the barrel.

We were just on ts TS time Sensitive Target for one platoon and then the other was on CSAR Combat Search and Rescue was a STEO basic standard Ranger tasking

at that point in time, and we had just rotated off of the CSAR tasking onto the Time Sensitive Target tasking. So we had just finished all the stand ups for you know, running through timelines and checks on all that stuff, and got the word that you know, uh, Marcus Traill's team was was going to go out and do this

Operation Red Wings. And you know, as rangers always do you know, we get enough information to have a conversation about it at chow hall table, and so we started talking with some of the Rekie guys and you know there, you know, they're briefing us because they've been following this a lot closer than like a rifle balteon has that wasn't kind of in our uh in our wheelhouse as far as targets we were looking at, but stuff that Reki had been looking at in areas to do to

do some of their stuff, and they were like, wedn't do it this way, not four guys, No, we'd take a whole recon section, you know, twelve guys and then but we wouldn't do it without a rifle teon and support, you know, even if it was a you know, five k standoff between the two, because they can fight to us and we can fight to them, and it's a

bigger footprint on the ground. Yeah, do we run the risk of spoiling the target, yes, But you know, on the other side of it, you know, we as rangers, you know, we're always going to bring everything in the kitchen sink to bear on an objective to turn the you know, the odds in our favor. And you know, did they do anything wrong in the way they did it? No, they made judgment calls along the way. And you know

we can armchair quarterback this right. You know, here's years later and say, well I wouldn't have done that, and I wouldn't have done this, but you know, they did what they do and right, so you know that led us into you know, you know, then losing calms and them getting in the fight and you know, as the as the movie portrays it out, and you know, and then we got to go in and do the combat search and rescue on the Turbine three three crash site and then figure out what the question mark.

So we left the base, got outside there. We're gonna go do some shooting drills and just you know, have a good session on the range and we get out and start throwing the target stands off the trucks and that's about the time that you know, we we find out that the bird's been shot down, and you know, it was hey, don't don't worry about what you've thrown off the trucks, get back on the trucks. You know, we got to get back and there was a lot

of guys who are like, what are we doing? And you know, we didn't have any of the answers at the leadership level of what was going on. We just knew that, you know, we had to be back for something that was gonna gonna get breathed, you know, to us. And as the situation was developing, and and so then as we were rolling back in, you know, we find out that the aircraft has been shot down, that team's in the fight, and you know, we're just stand by

at that point. So I wouldn't really kind of understand the whole situation for you know, probably another six years

as I progressed through through leadership. But you know, as I tell people, it's, you know, it's as a young guy, you know, it's not that we're not going to get in there and we're not going to be a part of this and we're not gonna but we're going to turn the tables so that way when we do recommit forces into this area, we've got so many assets to bear on the objective that nobody would be in their

right mind to want to play. So, you know, it was probably you know, about ten hours or so after the initial shootdown that you know, that night as we're getting ready to launch and you'll finally got the green light that we're going to go, and we load up everybody that's going to fit on the aircraft at altitude and launch and then we hit the mountain weather on that night and have to divert infill and go sit at jawl about for a day and then wait to get infilled the next night.

You know, Murphy's team was still a question mark as to what's going on because there had been no radio comes with them since Murphy's SAP phone call. So the priority tasking was to recover the crash because we knew where it was, and then after that it would just be to figure it out, if you will.

going to come in and do. As far as recovery, that was you know, one Charlie's tasking at the time. So that was that was where Tony was and.

as it works out. And then when one Charlie came in, I know, their rope started at sixty and it ended somewhere around eighty.

wasn't terrible. And then I was watching guys carrying two forties and stuff roping in and they've got the big thick gloves on and they're squeezing extra tight just to have a feeling on the rope, right, And so then they're burning in and you know, and their hands are getting so hot that you know, they're blistering at you know, still ten or fifteen feet above ground, and they're just letting go. They're like, I'll just deal with it when

to hit the ground. And you know when once Charlie came in, you know, they had the same problem, and guys were falling off and then they were just ending up in the big pile. And I know their rto had had his arm broken because he got stepped on. Yeah that's and so you know he got guys that need to get meted back, but you ain't getting meta backed.

And it was it was quiet, you know. And then when you when the brown out cleared and all the you know, the wash of everything, and you know, you kind of look up the mountain, you know, you you could see the crash because it's still on fire, it's still burning and it's just kind of one of those ominous moments, if you will, just kind of you know, the gravity of what you're doing has finally set in because you're seeing it with your own eyes and not

on a TV screen. And then you know, it just becomes the all night walk up hill through the nettles and you know the Scotch Burn or not the Scotch Burn, but you know the pines and all the groundcover that's up there in the mountains, and it's just.

we were going to take care of it. Yeah, and so you know, as the the that day turned into you know, a week to two weeks. You know, at night, you know, you see little fires on the mountain and you know, get eyes on it, especially can and then ac one thirties dropping, you know, one O five's on it.

were sitting there on it and the kind of listening to one Charlie, you know, suck their way up the mountain and then one Bravo was still about halfway up the mountain because they had driven in from Jelalabad the night or the morning that it happened. They drove up the ninety k in their trucks and then they started walking from the base of the mountain up and they

didn't make it until the next day. And you know, only about half the guys that started to climb up the mountain made it up and the rest of them had to go back down and get picked up by the trucks. And you know cause they just either heat, heat, exhaustion or you know, twisted ankles and whatnot.

of the mountain. You could put a small helicopter like little bird on it, but it was you know CDs drops for demolitions and you know, basically had to create an HLZ to be able to get everybody off that mountain that you know, the remains for those guys. And so it was kind of a was a good distraction, if you will, to do timber charges and clear that space to be able to make enough room to bring

you know, helicopter in. And and so we just finished our regimental breachers course and uh so all that old stuff, you know that that timber stuff was still fresh in everybody's mind. So it was, uh, you know, we're all sitting there trying to do the math and the first starting to like use the peed method. Yeah, so we're sending tree stumps and everything up, you know, like Roman candles. It was, you know, just packing as much explosives in these little burrow holes in or knees and launch it.

And so that that was fun. We cleared that and then we got to tasking for you know, what would turn out to be, go down the mountain and find Marcus, and so that that started the fun of the mountain.

Weather moved in that night and dumped on us, and we're trying to walk down hill and you know, the trails a little stream bed at the time, and so guys are slipping and falling and guys are trying to not fall off the rid and then we end up, uh just for safety reasons, you know, we end up spending the last few hours kind of under pine trees waiting for the sun to come up so that we don't lose anybody.

and we knew what we were. Yeah, they were still up there with with one Charlie and and reinforcing them, and we're just kind of the the maneuver element, if you will, going down and trying to confirm or deny what this push to talk signal was that that we were getting being triangulated down into this. I I always forget the name of the village, so I can't even remember it.

little village. And then you know, as we're doing the rangers smashed through all the doors and clearing the village. You know, here comes Marcus, you know, from up from where they had him hidden and kind of stashed, and so you know, confirm that and then start you know, doing the.

but where they're on the mountain, that's it. You know, it's kind of that you can't give me anything more. The CITYO has just started kind of a frustration thing, and I get it. You know, he's been you know, that wasn't it probably wouldn't have been fun come down that mountain the way he says he came down that mountain. But you know, I I would like to hope to think that, you know, my friends were dead on that mountain.

I can at least remember some kind of terrain feature that I could at least tell somebody that they're you know, they're up here in this area.

They stumbled on on two of the remains just by half instance, somebody lost their footing and slipped into a little wash and ended up, you know, face first with with two of them oh Man, and so well, the rough part was that they still had to go like eight meters vertically with you know, to two sets of remains, and all we have is the old school poncho method to carry him up, right, because you couldn't do it

with a litter. So it was wrapping them up in the poncho and kind of getting them up as best as possible, and you know, then they have to carry

it traverse them across the ridge back over to the the HLZ and you know, then that was the hard part is after that, now we're just looking for one person, right, and you know, we ended up searching for oh Man, well, probably another ten days before we got ripped out when three seventy five came in. Yeah, and you know, at that point, you know, we're fourteen days, twelve or twelve days into this whole thing, and it's guys are just gassed.

You know, you've got a little bit of food poisoning from an MR that may have spoiled and you ate it anyway. And yeah.

there as a younger man. I mean, is there anything you've learned, anything that kind of like opened up your scope or offered a wider context that was surprising to you, or that kind of that you look at this event much differently today than you did at the time.

that we never trained for. When you know, nobody ever goes into a training scenario that we're gonna have aircraft shot down, and we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do that, and then all this kind of stuff and so it's like the worst of everything, you know, as far as the circumstances, and it's trying to understand all the pieces, you know, the wizard behind the curtain, if you will, of what's going on. And you know, it's all the questions that we asked after we got back.

You know, why did it take so long for us to launch? You know, what were the circumstances? And you know, it's it's when this type of situation happens, it is everything stops in in theater, uh, you know, and then it's it's all assets shift focus, and it's trying to put everything in place so that way, you know, like I said, you know, when we do commit the force, it is you know, with all the odds can be

stacked in our favor as best as possible. And so, you know, not not to jump forward too far, but you know, it's kind of one of those things that always stuck in my head. And then when the Extortion one seven shoot down happened, you know, we're on the ground and so then it's I can explain, you know, because I'm the old fart at this time. You know, it's kind of explains. The voice on the fly is like, hey, look,

you know, this is what's happening behind the scene. You know, we're here in the middle of it right now, but this is what's going on on the backside. And so it's not that you know, we're not going to get things that we need, but there are steps and things that have to that have to happen. And so it was one of those that was the big learning lesson for me was you know, what are what are all these steps on the backside of of this type of scenario.

in trouble, you know, they it's it's not expected. But you know when they say that the Rangers are coming in, you know, it's they're coming in with everything, you know, because you know, we're bringing everybody that we can, and we're bringing all the toys and all the stuff, and you know, we're bringing a big footprint.

dead sleep to take these targets. And so you know, at first you're like, oh, this is such a big letdown, But then as you start going on and it it really becomes this thing that we're all kind of driving for is you know, mission success is now not how much can we smash, but how how successfully can we get in repeatedly silently without firing any of these shots. Because now we're getting all of this intel from all

these people through interrogations and all this stuff. And so you know, when you shift your mindset kind of away from the traditional you know what we'd like to call the ranger smash, and now we're kind of playing on the same TTPs and and kind of lines that you know, Team six guys are playing on a Delta Forces playing in and they've been having success for you know years, and you know all kinds of settings around the world

that they're employed in. You know, we can as a Ranger regiment, we can employ these types of you know, operational guidelines that we're going to go do this and we're going to do it as quietly and mission success is now based on the amount of people that we can not kill on target, but we can drag off target, right, you know, and then it really becomes the driving force. You know, mission success is now can we do it? And how many times can we do it? And then

you know it's kind of not necessarily mission failure. But you know, if shots are have to be you know fired in, right, you know, what do we do wrong

that that got us into that gunfight? Because it's really impressive, you know, as a leader when you can bring like thirteen plus guys into a target building and roll up fourteen or fifteen dudes without anybody knowing that you're even in the room, right, And so you know, that was you know, and then when we started going into two other techniques later on, you know, was like, but we're so good at this, why are we switching to doing

this this other thing? And you know, I never really liked what we call prefer you know, later on it would be the call out. And I understand the you know, as a leader of the thought behind it is that it's less risk of force because we're now telling the enemy.

And you know, for those of people who don't understand, it's kind of like what you know a swat team will do, or you know, the FBI does, you know, when they surround a house or a compound or whatever and then they're getting on loud speakers and they're telling people to come out and surrender and and all that. But you know, it's never the fun way to do. It's kind of you know, if you will, it's boring.

And then you know, I had a whole squad of guys, you know, pulling security on dudes. And then it was you know, we had the first floor, you know, secure

as as far as you know, guys are. We've got guns on the right amount of people, and you know, we've got a whole other squad is sneaking in to take care of you know, what needs to be going on upstairs, and everybody's all super quiet, and you know we're basically we take the whole house down all in one shot, and we end up with like sixteen detainees and you know, the whole target's done in forty five minutes.

We got everybody's tagging bag. We've done all the sight exploitation and you know, and then we're we're onto the next objective. Yeah. So it's amazing when, you know, when when you can look back at that and and be like, wow, I was a part of that, and you know that that worked out great and and you know when you can explain you know that that is you know, mission success because you know, intel drives the targeting, and when you don't kill the intelligence, then you get more targets

and you get to go have more fun. And you know, when you could explain that to the younger guys who are you know, nineteen twenty and just kind of chomping at the bit, and it's like, no, hey, to relax, relax, We're being smooth, We're being quiet. You know, we started, you know, climbing walls and and you know, then then it would became the whole you know, can we do a top down? You know, can we come in from one building or can we ladder up the side of

the building. And you know, not only can we come in from the ground floor, but can we send in the salt force in from the top floor and still do it all silent? You know, it just becomes a whole other side of you know, this developing persona that we're creating in the Ranger Regiments. Not just are we the ability to go smash things, but we can be as precision as anybody else, but do it with twice as many people.

notorious for you know, any holiday. It was a day that you know, he had been blown up and so he didn't really like to drive anymore. And so he's like, the only holiday I've never been blown up on is Halloween. And so we took the ground of salt force out and strikers and uh hit a target driving back and uh, his truck gets popped, and you know, it's what we

call a catastrophic vehicle kills. So it's a striker, but it had a whole penetration and it was enough to penetrate the bottom of the floor and then what came through stuck in the back of the seat on the driver. But nobody, nobody was hurt. And you know, the testament to the striker as a vehicle platform that we were using, it blew all the circuit breakers in the vehicle and all the driver had to do was just reach around,

push the breakers in and start back up. And it drove all the way back to the gate and then it gave up the ghosts, you know, the all the steering linkage and the front broke apart and it was plugging the uh the ECP there at the at the

gate onto Ramadi. And so that was kind of funny because we had to move the the t barriers out of the way to open it up so we could get the record in there to hook onto it, because there wasn't a way to pull it through the chicanes with with that with all those barricades in place, so we had to you know, it was probably a three hour process to get that truck through the gate. You know, we got all the marine convoys and the army convoys and body they're all backed up sitting outside waiting for

us to move our piece of junk. And so after that, you know, the team six guys were like, hey, we've got you know, the boats are down you know at the little off site you know, on the on the river, and you know we could start employing those and so we started doing you know, boats in, helicopters out, or helicopters in and boats out, and that's pretty cool kind

of and riding the rivers. And it was definitely really cool because we could get way closer to target on the boats than you could with you know, helicopters without the noise signature. And it just you know, opened up a whole nother avenue of a technique that we hadn't really you know, been utilizing. And it was Yeah, I just I'm the only thing I wish that it was it had been in the summertime instead of in the winter.

And so you know, you have a last you know, the LCC is you know basically at the boat drop off point on the beach and then you know, move the target and take the target down, and you know, then moved to Xville and you know, just short helicopter ride back onto the base and so it was uh, you know, it was definitely fun because we were the one of the first to actually implement it and so, uh, you know, we kind of got to be on the

on the front side of that. As far as what the rangers were doing with you know, boat boat ops.

to the boats. So they just basically gave it up as like, well, if they're going to use them, then there's something that we can do about it until they come on target.

BICO was the last company and second Arrange battalion to

surge whether stay late or or go early. And so we had just finished the the KPEX at Fort Bragg, which is the big you know, the Special Ops dog and pony show for Congressman and uh you know, the President and all that stuff, which was fine because it gave us, you know, an extra week of training with you know one sixtieth and some you know, platoon time if you will, to run around of work through fine tunes, some TTPs and some s ops and break some of

the new guys a little bit tighter online with you know, how we're gonna accomplish these these tasks when we're getting overseas. So you know, we got task to go to Bob Shank and be passed with Team six, uh under their command, and so h we went over and and did that, and uh, you know, we had a pretty good working relationship with with the Gold Squadron for for that uh

early part of that deployment. And then the uh, you know, night of August six rolls around and so objective Left to Grow comes up on the table as a you know, it's a a target that had been tracked and chased and kind of lost but never could get a lot of fidelity to to it because he's a pretty dynamic target meeting. He's constantly on the move and and you know, hard to nail down to one location. But he had rolled into the Tangy Valley on this you know, this

day and singing. It had kind of pinned him into a certain location inside the the valley and in a little cluster of buildings, and it was enough that it was probably about seventy percent fidelity on the on the objective targeting that it was. It was still solid, and we had just come off a few days of weather and uh, we're looking at maybe some more days of

weather on the back end of this. So it was we had this little like two day window of good weather to do an op and I was kind of you know, looked at the at my peel and you know, we went to chow and we were sitting there having the conversation. I'm like, look, I'm willing to take a swing at seventy percent, you know for this target. You know, uh, you know we're gonna be stuck sitting for weather for

a few days. And I don't you know, we've already been stuck sitting and Rangers doesn't do well sitting sitting around with with whether if we don't have anything to do. So you know, I was like, I'm willing to take a swing at seventy you know, we're going into the Tangy Valley. So it's basically a guaranteed gunfight, and you know, what do you think And he's like, yeah, I'm willing

to take a swing on seventy percent. So we went back and pitched it that will take a swing at it and if nothing else, you know, we'll let him know that we're chasing him and kind of break his pattern of life. And usually when we can do that and break the pattern of life on people, that's when they start making mistakes and it becomes easier to you know, launch, launch a follow on operation because he's not sure what

he needs to do. And so, you know, we drew up the plan and got approval and then brief the plan, pitched the plan to the boys and you know, one of the only times I've ever told the boys we actually it was the only time I ever told him. I was like, you know, this is the Tangy Valley and it's not an if we're going to get into a gunfight. It is a one we are walking into

a gunfight on this night. And there's a reason why we only go into this value on the no illumination cycle, and that's because they're going to shoot at anything, helicopters, aircraft, people, So you know, switch it on, put it on straight, and you know we're going to get it on tonight. And so we had an uneventful you know infield when no rounds taken because we had flown in extortion one

six and one seven had been our infield aircraft. And so then they flew back cycle through and Gold Squadron was on QRF for for us or any follow on

objectives that came up from what we were doing. And so infield, got the guys, got the boys on the ground, uh, you know, started moving to the objective, got word that you know, there was eight to ten and we fighters moving off the objective, and so we uh pulled the formation, got clearance for fires with the Apache gun ships and and lit into them with the Apatche gunships two gun runs per aircraft and and then push the target uneventful after that, and then cleared through the the contact and

had stirred up a bunch of you know stuff in the valley, and so you know, I was it's just you know, guys in their rebel rousing, trying to get guys to come out and you know, gather a force to come and fight. And so we're clearing through our target and uh, you know, it's it's looking good for what's being seen on is R because they're seeing a bigger picture than what I've seen within you know, a

thousand meters circle of my objective. And so the the call came from the from the jock to my petun leader and myself was like, hey, are you guys gonna go You know, you're gonna go push farther into the back and you know, taking on this contact. And at the time, you know, we're working a pretty good objective and we were actually kind of thought we had what we were looking for on the objective as far as who we went into the the valley to get and we said, no, you know, we think we're working at

and we have what we want. They said, you know, do you care if you know gold squadron comes in and you know it starts there on movement to contact on the rest of this objective and you know, about five k to the west of you. And I said, well, that's plenty of deconfliction of space for small arms fire. So if they want to come in, you know, and that's what they want to do, good on them. You know, it's had been a pre briefed h discussion between malteltoone leader myself, Jonas.

link up, you know, if that had happened. And you know, we got the word that they were loading on the extortion and we weren't sure which way they were going to come into the valley, and we kind of said, hey, we recommend, you know, if you overfly our objective, then we could at least, you know, provide groundcover for anything. And you know, but well, you know, we only get a small amount of say, and it doesn't really carry that much weight as far as what the airplanners are doing,

you know, because these are conventional aircraft. So the pilots are only flying what's been improved through their S three Air shop and and so, you know, what we were saying to our job is not necessarily making it over to theirs. And so we were like, well, okay, so you get the call that their wheels up and they're ten minutes out, and so we wanted to clear one

more building. So we've kind of pushed to try and clear the building real quick and get the call that you know, there are six minutes out, and then three minutes out, and so we held our assault and what we're doing, and we're just kind of sitting there waiting

and I'm waiting. I'm waiting to see the bird's flush after infill and so that we're not you know, if we end up shooting on target, that we're not getting to ricocheting something into aircraft because they're within you know, small arms distance, and then that that never happened, kind of wondering what's going on, and then we get over the fires in it from the FOS that there's a fallen angel and I had known what the you know, the pro word, if you will is, and it's just

kind of dumb struck by and I said, say that again and He's like, where I've fallen angel? And I was like, okay, now, so that my brain and my you know, it's all connecting, you know, speaking English, and he goes, extortion has been shot down, and I was like, okay, great. So then it was you know, how fast can we

back out of this target building? How fast can I get the guys on the road and get them to start moving even though we don't know exactly where it is yet, it's I just know the general direction that we need to go, which was to the west. And so we got the boys back out of the objective, off the objective and we're moving in about three minutes, you know, as far as getting guys pushed out, and then it's trying to all the weapons and everything that

we had accumulated on our objective. Is trying to take all that stuff with us and you know, get everybody and everything on the move and not leave. You know, all this stuff too potentially be shot in the back with it, so send it forward and find a place to blow it in place. And you know, then the question comes to, like what do we do with all these detainees, and so it just becomes well, leave them, and you know, people are like, well, you're gonna untie them.

I was like, nope, somebody will come over and cut them loose later. I'm not not cutting anybody loose. They can figure it out, right. And so we've got off the objective and start moving. I just, you know, well, I'll never forget you know, when the lead element and the snipers and the dog handler finally got with an eyesight of you know, around the terrain feature and it was just this you know, I won't use the profanity, but it was one of those oh my god moments.

You know, the whole night sky is just lit up with just fire and you know, the burning wreck of it, and you know, you know, we're still trying to figure out, you know, the fastest way, and you know, should we you know, so the tangy road that runs through this valley is heavily ied'ed. I mean it's ied like every three to four hundred meters. There's something planted in that road and it's to stop you know, the trucks. And so there was this you know, do we want to

go over land? And I told the po's like, hey, look sir, my recommendation. We got to assume the risk the force and we're just going to have to stay on the road because we got to get there. And he said, I agree. So we just you know, I told the dog and the handler up front. It was like, if it looks suspicious or he wants us, you know, to you know, say that there's something in the road, and just mark it and mark it good, and just tell everybody to stay out of the way because we

got to go. And so it took us about an hour to go the five k to get up there, and then you know, it's a kind of trying to put this whole thing together on the fly, and you know, everybody's radios are going nuts as far as you know, the pl these you know, like basically glue to the stat radio and just like, hey, sir, we've got to I need some information here, you know, we gotta you gotta tell me how many people on this aircraft, you know.

So we're working through that and it's you know, I finally get the numbers and I'm thinking, you know, it's half the force, and I'm like, okay, so and they you know, but he gave me the number thirty eight and I was like, so, how many are on the other aircraft. You know, I'm not joking about it. I'm like, I'm in disbelief. It's like, how many people are on the other aircraft then goes empty ship and I was like, oh, you know, it's like for those people that don'ts you know,

that aren't listening, that aren't you know. In the military mindset of this is that, you know, it's a technique, and it's not a bad technique. You know, it's a it's a risk of force risks the aircraft decision that leaders make. Do we put everybody on one aircraft and only risk one aircraft to enemy fire and get the force all in it once, or do we only put half the element on one aircraft and the other half

on the other. And the problem with that, you know, split force on multiple aircraft is that lead aircraft makes contact, that second aircraft is not getting on the ground right, and so then you only have half your force on the ground. So, given the situation that they were going in to pick a fight with you know, of anywhere twelve plus fighters on that side, it made more sense to just risk one aircraft and put everybody on the ground all at once. And it's not a bad decision.

It's just you know, people ask me, well, why didn't you do that? Then, well, I brought fifty five guys to the fight that night, and we don't fit on one aircraft.

that we just don't have. And the whole way up there, I'm in my mind, I'm I'm flashing back to all the stuff that we brought in the night we did the you know, the turbine three three in the Marcus the trail, you know that six years ago. All that's floating back into my mind and I'm trying to think of all the stuff that we had and all the stuff that one Charlie had, and I'm trying to you know, request this stuff because at this point in the game, as far as you know, the g WYT, this is combat.

Struch and rescue is not something that we have time to train on anymore. And it was something that you know, back in the day when we assumed Ranger ready for US one. It was one of those one day, two day taskings that you know, we all trained, you know, crash axes and smashing through and this is what we do now. We get fan egress once a year when we do rotor wing violets. You know, if the aircraft has a hard landing, not destroyed, but it has hard landing.

You know, this is how we destroy the radios is how you destroy you know, the airframe if need be, you know, and so on and so on. But at this point, it's like, okay, well I need I need body bags, I need water, I need bio hazard, you know, and if you can find them, I need Class D

fire extinguishers. And so I'm trying to get all this information requested to the jock so that they can build this weird CDs palette to hopefully help us, you know, get everybody recovered, because by the time we got on the crash site, you know, it was still a fireball. It was still on fire for hours after and you know, it was one of those learning points, I guess if you will for the for the job that Hey, look, you know this is the second time I'm in less

than ten years that we've had this happen. And we don't have any classic fire extinguishers to put out a middle fire, right, and helicopters have a lot of magnesium in them, right, And so you know, we did correct that, you know later on that that all this stuff did make it into country, and thankfully that never had to be used it again. But it was one of those well, we probably should have some of this stuff at least on standby.

every ISR platform mann is unmanned, you know, fast movers, rotor wing assets, they're all coming to wherever that crash is at. And it was nuts the amount of support that we had, you know. And then so the big Armies Combat search and Rescue element, the pathfinders in the book, they're not you know, pathfinder pathfinders. That was just our

call signs pathfinder. You know, those guys almost didn't make it in because they were shutting everything down, and so it was either going to already be there, which was us, or it was going to have to come in on a truck. So they made it in just moments, moments before everything got shut down as far as rotor wing assets.

And the strange part is is that you know, transport aircraft have flying pairs or triplets, and so Extortion one six the other aircraft in the flight I had to get special permission to fly back from the objective area as a single ship.

this area. And so what their whole thing was is that they had to get on the ground after we had containment of the area to provide a ground force security element on their HLZ for them to be able to come in. And so we had that just you know, right before the sun came up.

just get kicked out in a kit bag. Yeah, it has to get put on a fixed wing aircraft, so see what thirty and then has to get CDs drop combat delivery system has to get dumped to us that way so they can fly in you know a tens as air support and and all that other kind of stuff, and it just becomes a risk aversion to more ground fire, so red ry wing assets.

it's so bright with all the fire. It just becomes this basically sent two fire teams out on the north side of the the create that the Tangy River and one on the south side. We just started doing concentric arcs, you know, basically fire teams online just kind of calming around this. And what we're looking for is anybody that had been possibly ejected from the crash, you know, whether

they had survived or you know, hurt or whatnot. And so that was the first thing is you know, how how how much of this can we clear within reason, you know, get out you know, one hundred and two hundred meters and make sure that you know, when we start pulling remains, we're not missing somebody because they got

pitched out of the back. So that's how we found like the first sticks to eight guys were kind of in this arc pattern that had been kind of thrown out within you know, fifty meters, and then you know, we got started getting the accountability and so then we

started finding chunks of the aircraft. The rotor assemblies, the front and rear rotor assemblies, you know, are in these positions, and we're kind of assuming that that's the farthest that any of this wreckage is going to get as you know, people aren't going to get that far, but you know, the rotor blades are still spinning and and torqued out, and they're going to you know, wobble off and you know, end up in an orchard here, or get slammed into

a tree, you know, cluster of trees over here. And so then it becomes you know, how can we work

this problem while it's still on fire? And so then it becomes you know, how long can we sustain you know, the exposure to the heat and things cooking off and exploding, and you know the risk of force for us to make this as fast as possible, and you know, it's just kind of one of those the real moments if he will, because he start you know, as the sun's coming up, you're starting to see the look on everybody's face of just you know, horror and disbelief that you know,

I can't believe this has happened, and you know, you try not to expose everybody to that, so you're really relying heavy on the guys that have a little bit more seasoned under their belts and the squads that are a little bit more mature, and you know, so I was really relying real heavy on second squad at the time too, you know, to work this and then as they started to get gassed and just worn out, you know, rotating one other squad in two take over until we

kind of got this all, you know, accounted for, right.

as the way movies are made now, it's crazy. And you know, and I give the credit to the boys because they you know, they handled a lot that night, and you know, for some of them, you know, it's their first deployment and you know they're seeing the worst that can happen, and so you know it's trying trying to make sure that everything was okay, right right, and so you know, we I think it was probably about four four and a half five hours and we had

everybody you know, pulled out and accounted for, and you know it wasn't there wasn't a lot of some people left. So because that was one of the questions you know, later when talking with the jock and and things after it was all said and done, you know, there was you know, questions, questions over you know, how did you get accountability because you know through the investigation. I mean

there was investigations that went on. This thing went on for weeks of you know, there's everybody wants all these answers, and so then you know, one of the questions comes is like how did you you know, come up with that you had accountability of all of these people? You know,

and it wasn't prefaced. The statement wasn't prefaced correctly because they're getting information from like mortuary affairs that says, you know, you can't count it as a human unless you have fifty one percent of the remains, and some of these guys are you know, not to be graphic there's you know, c spines and skulls.

we're up there for the ramp ceremony. I'm kind of talking with the you know, the regimental staff and officers, and you know, bumped into somebody that I you know, knew and I respected, and he goes, you know, hey, you really good under the circumstances. And I said, so, I got a bone to pick, and I don't care if it gets me fired. You know, it was one of those, uh, since winning the Ranger Regiment is personnel, accountability of man, weapons and equipment, not the NCO's job.

And when you grill my opportunit leader over something that he's not involved in, I have a big problem with that. And so you know, I'm being polite about it, you know. Uh, but uh, it was one of those those things where you know, it's like, you know, we we did the best we could under the circumstances. And you know, I wouldn't have given you a false report in the circumstances if I wasn't sure that we had everybody right.

tune leader. But it didn't happen, and uh, you know it's I felt, you know, justify after that that you know, he got raked over the coals for something that wasn't in his lane, right, and you know I got him in apology and so then everything was straight. Not not trying to brag on this situation, but you know it's you guys, because.

operate again. Is to you know, tell them, hey, we're going out and we're going to load back on these aircraft and we're just going to keep doing business. And you know, to see the look in some of their faces, it's just, you know, there's timidness in their eyes that you can see is because they've seen the worst that could happen, and you know, ask them to step back on those airframes and to you know assume that risk.

You know, that was the hardest, you know, and then it got easier for them, you know, as we kind of settled back in. But you know, then we started and we went back in the Tangy like six weeks later, and we lost one of our guys, Tyler Holtz, was killed, had one other guy Specialists was wounded, you know, all in the same area of you know, where that crash had happened, within about four hundred meters five hundred meters

of the crash site itself. Because what we had done was we had gone back through all the video and the ISR and you know, figured out where that those rocks were fired from, and so that became a target

in itself, a very deliberate target. And you know, we'd brought the rest of Bravo Company up and did a big company off in there, and you know, we'd put one hundred and fifty rangers on the ground, and you know, we were just basically what it was was to just say, hey, look, you may have shot an aircraft down, but we're not

afraid to come in here. And you know, then you know, unfortunately we have a team leader that's killed, another guy that's you know, severely wounded, and you know, so it just kind of this big, big downer for that and uh and then you know, and then I get hurt a few weeks later, and so it's just kind of where just one brather just continues to just take a meeting, either physically or emotionally or mentally. And it was a it was a rough trip. I always you know, guys

always asking you know, what was that one? Like I was like, well, at that point in time, you know, one Bravo had been in more gunfights that deployment than the rest of the Talian together all the other platoons. We had been in more gunfights on that trip, and guys were just spent.

the timidity or the tim midnus, how is it?

because somebody wants to do something stupid as payback. We're gonna it and we're going to give it to them in the right way, and we're going to do it our way, you know, within the rules of engagement, and you know, and that's going to be it. There's there's not gonna be any shenanigans.

we started kind of as a special operations support. You know, we're there to you know, provide security and blocking positions and things for you know, Delta Force and Team six and you know, to get to the point where we're now we're running a gun and on the same target decks and you know, the same targeting lines, and we've

earned our right to be in this point. Most of the guys at this point as part of the squad leaders and and you know, even some of the senior team leaders, but you know, team starters, we know what it's like to be the guy on the outside looking in, and now we're on the inside right there. There was no way that anybody was gonna risk, you know, ruining that reputation that we had for anything.

in the right direction. It's not to compromise our integrity or or any of that stuff, because you know, when those kind of things start happening and you start getting questionable uh cera answers on target, you know, then then your freedom of maneuver and freedom of movement and and you know what you do, it starts getting you know, put under the microscope. And so nobody wants to be

under the microscope. And so you know, I give it to the guys that that took over after I got hurt, and you know, the guys that are even still doing it today. You know, it's it is carrying on that legacy of what we started twenty years ago and still continue to develop you know where it's going in the future. And you know, it's awesome to be, you know, a

part of that history. You know, because I look at what the Ranger Regiment is now and back to what it was when when you were there, and you know, when I was a young private and you know, it is hands down a completely different organization and you know, we can do all that old stuff, but we are so much better at fitting into the operational roles that we have now.

You can get the guys who are providing stuff from across the border, and then it gives you the ability to pass on to the battle space owner who's putting this stuff in the roads that's trying to blow their trucks up. So, you know, that's kind of where we're swinging across the food pyramid. If he is right in the middle and so we're in Baraki Barack, or well, Brocky Barock was the little the town. But we're in Logar Province, kind of on the east side of the

Tangy Valley. And the target grids dropped in a little cluster of four buildings that all shared walls. So it's like a plus symbol, and you know, you get twenty five chance of taking the swing right the first time. And so we swung wrong, and so we were reset all the pieces to move and strike the next compound.

And as we're resetting all the pieces, you know, I made a stupid decision that I had preached a thousand times before, and shoot houses, don't ever put your body in front of an open doorway, and I had just instinctually, I just stupidly put my leg across this doorway. And as soon as I did it to hold the door were open. I took a three round verse. Took first round to the right thigh, and I took one as

I was getting spun out of the way. I took one through the right arm pit and entered in my armpit and exited out my bicep, and then I took the last one through the through my helmet.

I was asking questions. I said, I know I got shot through here, but you know what were the you know, how how how lucky am I?

in the q r F two. Bravo came in to back up first pretendent because we had I was wounded urgent surgical uh specialist Sara's was expectant and uh then we had an Afghan partner who was expectant he had taken around to the face, and uh, you know, we had two other guys that were wounded severely, but they didn't say anything about it because they were still able

to conduct op some uh. And then we had twelve other guys that had received fragmentation because I got shot and then you know, there was an exchange of gunfire and then the enemy threw a hand grenade out in this little alley and so then it went off, and you know, I got a whole bunch of fragmentation in the back of my you know, hamstrings from it, and then a bunch of other guys caught frag off it. But that that objective alone that night, we gave out fourteen purple hearts. Wow. Wow.

got it. It's a conscious thought effort to go, Okay, I have to put a tourniquet on. You're like, I know where they are, but can I reach it? Can I get to it? Because I'm kind of laid over on it. It's like, well, I can't really move. And I knew my femur hadn't been broken because I stupidly stepped, you know, I put pressure down on my leg when I lost my balance after I got shot in the head. So I was like, okay, good. You know, in my mind,

I'm like, my fever's not broken. And uh so then I'm like, okay, I've got a tournique in my mid pouch and then I also have one down on my left calf. But I've got all this crap and I'm kind of in this weird position. Can I even reach it? Yeah, you know, because I've got a I've got a team leader and two other guys who are straddling over top me trying to get guns through this doorway, and they're you know, in the in the fight, and I'm not

in the fight anymore. And I'm trying to like reach between their legs and my legs and grab this turn quit and put it on. And then you know, that just sucks. And then you're like, okay, but I still have to crank this thing down and you know, get

it as tight as I can get it. And then there's a lull and then you know, I know that Cress is hurt, you know, so I know I can get I can probably walk, and so you know, I get help stood up, and then I try to get myself out of the way, you know, as best I can, and so I start walking, uh back down the alley way to where we're gonna have the CCP, and then, uh, you know, then then my leg starts going dumb and it's like, hey, doc, come here, you're gonna help me,

and uh, you know, really, what I'm trying to do is just get out of the way so that the other medic can get in there and helps Cerro's and and get him kind of drug out of the way into the CCP. But I didn't really start panicking about the whole thing until I got my equipment cut off and my radios came out, and so then I lose all situational awareness to the fight, and then it's like

anxiety comes in. It's like I have no idea what's going on anymore, and I am not in control of anything, you know, as a leader, and that that just sucks. But I knew when we reorganized the priority for METOVAC and it became myself and one of the snipers who took Frag through the nose took took Frag through the

bridge of his nose. I knew that when I and him went from being on the second aircraft out being on the first aircraft out in the Afghan and Cero's ended up on the second aircraft, I just knew that, you know, thanks, we're not not going well. And you know, wasn't gonna tell me anything anymore because I'm not in you know, the first start and so on the objective. So he's kind of taken over those duties, and I just,

you know, it was bad at that point. In my mind, It's just you know, everything that's gone sideways can go sideways and inside out.

objective and that game. The QRF came in and the boys are still out there, and you know, the whole thing went for like six more hours before you know, the sun you know, it was done and over with and they were pulling both flatuns out just as the sun was coming up.

up to the UH thirty tune. I'm like, just please tell her, And so he gave her the you know, the you know, the information that was going on and then uh, you know, the Battalian commander called her a little bit later. I was in surgery and in my ball room and so uh she she knew within you know, a couple of hours.

I survived and your son's dead, and you know, that's that's one of those those tough situations. And you know, because they can go one to two ways. You know, they could be they can hate you for life, or they can embrace you. And you know, luckily enough, his dad had spent uh time in the army, uh so he understood and so that was okay, And you know

that was kind of one of the harder things. You know, last year, I got a chance to meet a bunch of the gold Star families for the Seal team that was killed, and you know, I'm always proud to meet him. But it's kind of one of those double edged things is that you know they're still holding on at anger grief and you know, uh, which way is it going to go? You know, are they gonna embrace you or

are they gonna hate you? And you know that that's tough because I never not want to meet them, but you know, on the same same side of it, you know, I'm you know there, their son is not here, and I am right, you know, but regardless of the fact, you know, I I have a sense of pride, and all the boys that were there that night have a

sense of pride. You know that. Hey, you know, regardless of whether you like us or hate us, you know, we brought him home and you know we're willing to accept you know, your anger or frustration at the situation. You know, that's just the way it is on the survivor's side of it.

I was on the sniper range. We were out eastern Washington shooting on a Department Energy range over there, and you know, the company commander of the first sergeant come over, and you know, off site training is always fun because everybody gets to be out of the office. So you know, I'm hobbling around and and kind of dragging my leg and at first start and like, hey, you're going to see a specialist when we get back. And so I went and saw the specialists and he kind of just

laid it out, you know, bluntly for me. He goes, do you want to walk when you're forty? And I said, well yeah, and he goes, well, then you need to stop now, and so you know, that started the whole uh you know, medboard process. And so then I was out of the Army about six months later. Wow wow. So I know a lot of guys that take some

a year or two or three to get out. But because I wasn't on any kind of pain medications or any of that stuff, you know, was they didn't have to, you know, worry about substance abuse or any of that. And so my packet kind of went a little bit faster than than some of the other guys. Some of the other as from they had gotten shot that deployment.

You know, we're still in for another year or so even after I got out, because they had to get you know through kind of a I don't want to say rehab process, but you know, they kind of had to get leaned off the meds and you know and finish the rehabbing and stuff.

some aspect or another. I lean towards you know, I did enjoy working with Delta Force a little bit more, and a lot of it is just because there's kind of this I don't know, you know, and all the tier elements have their own personality, and you know, we kind of sometimes fit better with guys in Delta Force because especially early on, you know a lot of the team leaders and squad leaders and guys, you know, the career progression is, you know, from the Ranger regimen is

to go to that organization, so there is a familiarity with people who understand where you're coming from as a unit or an organization, whereas we didn't really have that for a while with Team six, and so we always kind of got looked at as like the kid brother thing.

And then as far as the HRT, I've only worked with a few guys from there, and that was in the kind of middle part of Iraq, you know, it was only a select view, and that was the kind of we were building the terrorist database with the you know, the three letter agencies for you know, Homeland security and whatnot. So as far as that goes, but you know, everybody's

they're all a great bunch of guys. I mean, I know, you know, in certain aspects, you know, we all talk trash on each other because we can, and you know, it's a cultural thing, and if you're not a part of the culture, then sometimes it gets looked at it's unprofessional.

But you know, you read enough Seal books and they take cheap shots on us, and so this some of this was, you know, a chance to you know, level the field if you will, and take a few shots at them, and so yeah, professional then you know, then so be it.

for an internal de fence in Afghanistan. And in both Tim and Joan they will be in studio interviews, and so will on the fourteenth John Fox, who he was a marine and he worked or he went and he became an international volunteer with the YPG in Syria, and he wrote this book that I'm almost done with it now. He wrote a book about it's co authored him and two other guys who are foreign volunteers and fought with the Kurds in Syria against ices. So it's a pretty fascinating book.