I have two guests, a conservative and a liberal, to break this all down.
We'll start on a rite with the conservative. He hosts the Will Kine Show on Fox News.
I believe it is every weekday at four pm on Fox News. He's used to work with me at ESPN. He's a friend of mine. I love him to death. I haven't seen him in a while. He's crazy. We don't usually agree, but I got love for him, the one and only Will Kane.
What's man?
How you doing?
What do you mean you believe it is at four pm Eastern time? You dann will better know it's at four pm Eastern time? I mean I've learned. I've learned from the best. If you don't sing your praises, I don't know who will. So let me just say, if you don't know what, you need to join the millions to do.
We're setting ratings records over here at four pm.
We're rivaling in prime time, So tune in and join Stephen A right.
Well, listen, man, I've caught you. Know.
My schedule is busy, but I've caught your show seven times because it's you, and i'd love to tell you. I'm surprised at the great job you're doing, but I'm not I love the fact that you got your own show. I think that you're going to eventually be in prime time.
I'm making that.
Prediction personally speaking. I think you should be in prime time already. I'm just gonna give you that kind of love. But I'm proud of you, my man. You're getting better. You're getting better.
I have to give it to you. Well, let me get right to it. Man.
Yesterday on your show, you broke down the timeline of the heated feud between Elon Musk and President Donald Trump, saying, quote, this is not a story that we wanted today for America.
Is this good or bad for the Republican Party?
And your estimation will well, there's no doubt about it that it's bad. There's no doubt about it. This is not just bad for the Republican Party, stephen A. This is bad for America. The only people left snickering today and enjoying the ride of those that wish for the downfall of Donald Trump or think that Elon Musk is the reincarnation of Adolph Hitler, And of course both of those are absurd propositions. I think we have seen something
truly remarkable, And I've been watching your commentary. I've been watching your I hope evolution not towards the right, but towards being in the right over the last several months. And the truth of the matter is, when the world's richest man, in the world's most powerful man can share the stage, and they did, steven A in remarkable fashion, in very generous and humble fashion. When they can share
the stage, that in itself is remarkable for America. And I can only hope with the end of this roller coaster it coasts in for a beautiful ride. I hope that they can make amends and get back on the same team.
Will educate my audience as to specifically why has it come to this with their personal relationship.
We can speculate, we can read.
Various news reports, but from your understanding, what was the tipping point that pushed Elon Musk over the edge to get to this point where he's been so a cerbic and so abrasive towards the president, Because I definitely would accuse him of being that towards the President in this particular instance.
Yeah, Elon Musk looks like he's crashing out, looks like he's lost it.
He's unstable.
In this particular episode, the last twenty four hours, there's the substance and there's the style. Let's start with the substance, stephen A. It is the most boring, but it's also the most important. Elon doesn't like the big beautiful bill. Elon has taken it upon himself over the last several months to dig in to the government's finances, dig into
every department with of course, doge. Look, Elon is a genius, steven A. I mean, he's a Thomas Edison level individual that will go down in history as one of the most important men to grace this planet. He simply is. But Elon is also someone quirky, used to getting things done solely sometimes or at least through his singular vision, and that's just not going to be possible in government.
It's certainly not going to be possible in democracy. Democracy is messy and full of people of different opinions, and some of those are even within what people think is a monolith one party Republicans. But it's not a monolith. It's a mix. So Elon comes in.
He sees the.
Dire financial straits of the United States. He knows we can't continue to run these kind of deficits over six percent, seven percent of GDP year over a year. It's unsustainable, thirty six trillion dollars in debt, and he wants to do something about it, and he wishes he had the reins just get it done.
But you don't.
You just don't in a democracy, and so he doesn't like the big, beautiful bill. For his part, I do believe that Donald Trump is getting the best possible bill that he can get, and that is because it is messy, as I keep saying democracy. Of course, democrats aren't going to participate in anything that reduces the size of government.
But even on the right, even among Republicans, Steven Height, you got New York and New Jersey and California democrats, it probably will do something you want, which is institute salt state and local tax deductions to your federal taxes. Guys like you that live in New York and New Jersey or in California, you want that. You don't want to pay the FED for stuff you're having to pay the State of New Jersey. I'm sure I lived up there with you. I'm sure I liked it. But now
that I live back home in Texas. I don't want to subsidize. You're bloated in fat and inefficient government in New York and New Jersey.
And that's what I'm doing.
I'm subsidizing it when you get to write it off of your federal taxes. But Donald Trump has to deal with it because there are Republicans from New Jersey and New York and California. In the Senate, there's Republicans that like parts of the Green New Deal, and it means something to a senator from North Dakota. So the point is, Steven A. He's got to make a deal. And that's what Donald Trump does. He makes deals. And Elon Musk
doesn't like the deal. So that's the substance, okay, But real quickly, then there's the style, okay, and that's important as well. It's the personalities. And I don't know what's going on with Elon. You know, I think he, like I said, is is quirky.
I don't know Elon.
I think I don't even know that we've shaken hands. We've been in the same room once or twice. But you know, I think he has a grand vision. I appreciate his vision. I think that he is a different kind of dude.
Stephen A.
I really do, and I think it speaks volumes to Donald Trump that not only have they gotten along, but he's welcomed him in and shared the stage and managed to be good partners for America.
But in the same breath where we can't sit here and act like Donald Trump has done everything right. I certainly understand and outside with you from the standpoint that you know, with his big, beautiful deal everything in there, everybody is not going to like you have to acquiesce
to some of the demands. Like you said, He's about making a deal whatever it takes to get a deal done and get some of the things that he wants, primarily preserving those twenty seven tax cuts and making sure they extend to now and they don't get canceled out.
The flip side to that, however, is that he brags about.
Having these individuals, hiring the very very best, the greatest innovative minds, people who have the country's interests best, and stuff like that. And when we see this kind of erratic behavior from an Elon Musk, and we see him and the President of the United States go back and forth, some people will say it's beneath Donald Trump. I happen to believe what Donald Trump said hasn't been that bad
against Elon Musk. To me, has been coming from Elon Musk in terms of the extreme statements that he has made, which I won't repeat. My point is is that it's still somebody that Donald Trump not only embraced, but empowered Department of Government efficiency cuts. People lost their jobs, et cetera. And folks, particularly on the left are looking at this now and saying, see, it's exactly what we warned y'all about.
Look at this mess that's going on within the Trump administration, because no matter which way you slice it, because it's Elon Musk, that is what he has perceived as, because that is what he has.
Been a part of the Trump administration. What do you say to that.
Way, First, you won't say, but I will.
And I see you're showing some of what Elon Musk had to say on screen. But let's deal with the most solatious in the biggest broadside attack. And that is the reason the Epstein files weren't released is because Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. Well, first of all, it's not breaking news that Donald Trump knew Jeffrey Epstein.
It's nothing new or nothing salacious to say there are records that show he might have been at times flying with Jeffrey Epstein, but there's no evidence there's anything more than that relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And if there were, Steven here, I would suggest to you, I would suggest to you that the Department of Justice under Joe Biden would have the FBI under James Comey would have aired that stuff against Donald Trump. They did everything possible to
take down Donald Trump. And I say this with love. Even you have been talking about the level of lawfare against Trump. So do you think they would have kept that ace of.
Spade in their pocket?
Not and not played that card had they had it against Donald Trump?
It's simply unbelievable.
Pause before you go on, I want to make sure that I'm letting my audience know. I think it's agreedous to just say something like that without proof.
So I'm glad you're.
Touching on it, but I want them to know the reason I haven't done it is because I'm not gonna be unfair to Donald Trump like that.
That's why I didn't want.
To do that.
That's why.
I just want to let the audience know that, because I think it's irresponsible to just throw that out there the way Elon must dia, but go ahead, right, Well.
I just think it's and it's okay for us. It's okay for us discuss it in terms of its lack of credibility. What more, it's not the flex that Elon thinks it is that if he knew that information, he was going to keep it as well under his cap as long as he liked the spending cuts.
So now he doesn't like the.
Spending cuts, soho, he's willing to expose one of the greatest, salacious, most indicting things you could say about somebody. I just think it shows it has no credibility that particular broadside. Now to your point about everyone looks at Donald Trump saying he hires the best and the brightest, and look
at the method it's created. Well, look, you know, it's a little bit like criticizing It's I'm trying to think of the right sports metaphor, stephen A. It's a little bit like criticizing the New England Patriots run the incredible dynasty put together between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, and then for us all to think the bigger story is the relationship between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.
So what I mean by that.
Is not necessarily that Elon Muskin Donald Trump put together a historical dynasty, but it is historical to bring these types of figures together. So what I mean, Okay, you know this, if I might stephen A, you know something about big egos, not just your own, but others. You've been around a lot of big egos.
Yours too, yours too, damnit. You ain't getting away with that, you too. Go ahead, go ahead, man, go ahead, man.
Our relationship, Our relationship is a testament to the power that sometimes big egos can coexist, get along and even be friends.
But don't don't get it twisted. That's rare.
How often are the world's richest man in the world's most powerful man partners in a shared vision.
It is super rare.
So you start from a historical point, you can't really think the story is wow, it didn't last, or it's a mess. It's incredible whatever existed in the first place. Look at Donald Trump literally shared the Oval office. Let Elon Musk stand there for hours on end and coming dear the cameras. I watched those and I thought, Man, Donald Trump is not the guy people think he is. He is not the attention hound and the credibility seeker that everybody thinks he is. He's perfectly willing to share
the stage. And I think that is historical. It's truly historical. Now posit that, Okay, it's messy, it's transparent, everything's playing out before our eyes, and it's not always gonna go well. Now, posit that against what we've had, not just for the last five years, stephen A, but I would offer you through most presidential administrations, highly coordinated, highly produced, fake fake kumbaya, everybody on the same page, everybody parroting the same spin.
And in the end, what do you get? You get something like Karine Jean Pierre, three months out of the office, of being the biggest spinster.
Oh no, get me started with her.
I know, but oh I can't wait to see her.
I can't wait to see her. Go ahead, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Go fly.
She wasn't willing to spin for Joe Biden. And then three months later, you know what, I'm not a Democrat anymore. That right there could suggest to everybody in America. Maybe we could use a little more messy transparency instead of manufactured and polished fate kumbaya.
That's a damn good point. And don't get me started with that. You're not even a Democrat anymore. And now you're out of office, and you're out of the White.
House and now we're going to profit And oh, I can't wait to see her. God, God bless her for telling her book.
But I can't wait to see her to ask about that stuff because stuff that she said in the White House is one thing that was your employer.
But then you went on a.
View after you left the White House and you said some of the same stuff. You could have gave everybody a heads up then and you didn't do it. So anyway, we'll get back to that another time. You said it's hard to see a path forward for these two. Donald Trump and Elon must to repair a relationship after Musk slammed the president's proposed spending bill. Is I mean, is this a few the party created or do you just put it solely on Musk?
What are your thoughts about that?
Well, if the Party helped create or few fuel this feud, it's that Elon Musk doesn't like what happens when you pour action into the messy democratic process of a bunch of congressmen and senators and get the result that he doesn't like. But the truth is, I think this is more about personalities. Now, normal personalities would say you've crossed
the rubicon. This is irreparable. You accused me of being in league with Jeffrey Epstein, and he also endorsed a random user saying impeach Trump and install JD.
Vance.
He also did that, and for most people that would be a bridge too far.
We're not going to fix this. I don't think that's Donald Trump.
I'm being real with Stephen, and now I do know this man somewhat where I said I don't know Musk as well. I do know Donald Trump, but you don't have to know him to see this. He's actually forgiving. He actually moves beyond. He doesn't hold grudges. Oh, he'll come hard at you if you go at him, but given time and space and the opportunity to heal, he's shown over and over that he's willing to do so.
I mean JD.
Vance one time referred to him as Hitler and J. D Vance he's the vice President of the United States. You have said hard things about Donald Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me right now he's called you. Actually, i'd be surprised if you said he's never called you. I bet you've heard from Donald Trump, and you've said hard things about Donald Trump. He he looks past it when he needs to. He's not as sensitive, or at
least he doesn't hold grudges like you would think. And so I wouldn't put it beyond the realm of possibility that we could see a beautiful, big reunion from Musk and Trump.
I would tell you this, I've never you know, as far as i'm sor, and I've never said anything that I owe Donald Trump an apology for I can tell you that much because I've never called him out his name or anything like that.
I just don't like the way he behaves. And I think you don't have to.
You know what the funny thing is, you don't have to apologize. You don't have to apologize to be on good term for Donald Trump. Look at Bill Maher. You don't have to. It's just he's not the media has created such a caricature of Donald Trump. If you only ever watched CNN or MSNBC or NBC or ABC or CBS. You just have a cartoonish, characature vision of who the man actually is and you don't know reality.
How worried are you for the Republicans in the twenty twenty six midterms in light of Musk, you know, basically threatened to formulate a third party, basically threatening to finance Democrats the way that he did.
Some Republicans, especially Trump.
Twenty twenty six, twenty twenty eight, could be in trouble for the right based on all this noise we've been seeing you concerned about that bit. You're concerned about.
That will I'm not. I'm not.
Look, you can do two things at the same time. You can give Elon Musk a ton of credit for the role he played, the money he spent in electing Donald Trump. But I personally think Donald Trump would have trounced Kamala Harris without Elon Musk and right now, and I wouldn't put it beyond the realm of possibility that Elon Musk does go out there, maybe he does give money to third parties, maybe he even gives money to Democrats.
But you could give all the money in the world you could give. How about that.
I don't want to give you any ammunition, so I'm not gonna use the Dallas Cowboys.
But you could give all the money in the world too. I don't know.
Pick your lowest level franchise and it doesn't gonna make it. It's not gonna make them an overnight champion. And right now, the problem with the Democratic Party is there's nobody put money behind. There's just simply no talent on the bench. There's not any in triple A, there's not any in double A, and there's certainly not any in the majors.
You show me.
Where the biggest level talent is, I might be talking to him. I might be talking to the biggest talent on the bench for Democrats.
Did you go with just that? Did you go with your stuff?
I will tell you this, though I agree with you as as it pertains to a national figure. But when you're talking about some of these congressional districts, when you're talking about some of these districts that the senators are fighting for as well, I think he has an opportunity to make in roads.
I think, don't I don't.
Know if you can definitively say that the GOP has a strong hold on the House and the Senate. In that regard, as you sift through this country, he might be able to make some in roads there.
Yeah, that's fair. It's a slim margin. It's a slim margin in both the House and the Senate. And let's not get it mixed up the charm and charisma and pull of Donald Trump. Not every politician can even come close to scraping the surface. So doesn't matter if they have an R by their name. But it's not just the people. Politics is two things. And you know, one thing I appreciate about and people. I don't want people to think I'm gratuitously, you know, buttering you up, because
I have on my program at times criticized you. And whether or not you're aware, I'm sure you're a big boy enough to not care. And politics is two things, and one of them you still have to work on. If any of this stuff about you is real, then there's still and you admit this holes in your game.
It's a combination of two things.
It's personality, charm, persuasion and the ability to connect with people. And you have that, You've got that okay, and Donald Trump has that, but you also have to have policy. You have to have things people care about, and right now the Democratic Party has no policy, stephen A. That even an Elon Musk funded run presents to me a real threat. Now that doesn't mean he couldn't pick off a House seat or two, or maybe a Senate seat
or two, and it is a slim margin. But the big issue for the Democrat Party right now isn't money, and it is in part personality, but the biggest problem is the policies and ideas. They're simply not just bad, stephen A, They're really really unpopular.
Let me say this to you on a personal note.
There's been a plenty of times where people have come up to me and they said, did you see Will Kane.
He's criticized your I said no, and I don't give a damn it.
Here's the reason why, because I'm quite sure is Will Kane disagreeing with something that I said. He's not attacking me on my character. That's the relationship we have. I don't care if he disagrees with me, and that's all. I've always been that way.
Now and you're the same way. This is one of the reasons we've gotten along. I would not say something into a microphone or behind your back that I would never say to your face. And that is like, our relationship is not predicated on liking everything each other have to say. The relationship is predicated on the integrity of telling one another where and where we do not agree or disagree.
That's right and where we stand. And that's why we got love for one another. Let me ask you this question. What you've heard that Steve Bannon, you know, obviously a Trump loyalist, somebody that used to work in the White House no longer does so. But he basically called for
Elon Musk to be deported. He said, quote, they should initiate a formal investigation of his immigration status because I am of the strong belief that he is an illegal alien and he should be deported from the country immediately. Now see, well, this is one of the problems, right This is one of the problems right here, because I had somebody look it up and I was informed Elon Musk is a naturalized US citizen. He became a citizen in two thousand and two after moving from South Africa
to Canada in nineteen eighty nine. And then to the United States in the early nineteen nineties. His journey included various visas, culminating in US citizenship through the legal naturalization process. As a US citizen, Musk is protected under the Constitution and cannot be deported without due process. Deportation of a naturalized citizen is extremely rare. If I know that, damn it, Steve Bannon knows that. What do you think when you hear somebody like Steve Bannon say those words.
Well, first of all, that's a question, and I don't know if you too have talked I think.
That you have, and that's yes, I interviewed them.
I thought that was right.
Yeah, And that's a question for Steve Bannon. So I'm glad you looked that up because I was wondering that last night. I saw what Steve had to say. And I'm gonna say a couple of things. Uh, Steve is incredibly smart, and Steve is worth listening to. And there are things that Steve and I is definitely on the
same page about. And I have no problem saying, like, I believe in the United States of America and the culture and the form of government and the protection of the United States of America, and Steve, I believe, is very skeptical of anyone who he thinks might question those foundational elements of the United States of America. I wondered last night the same thing that you just educated me on. I wondered, what is ELNs uh? What is Elon's citizenship status?
And I'm glad you clarified for me and the audience. He's a citizen of the United States, and you can't deport a citizen of the United States, to my knowledge, and I would love to hear Steve's argument for why Steve's always been skeptical of Elon. And I don't think Steve's skepticism of Elon, by the way, is unfair. I think he's skeptical towards all of tech, towards everyone that thinks that a country is like a company ready to be optimized. That's not what a country is. We're not
a business. We're not here simply to get rich and wealthy. We're here to be what we have been throughout our history, and that is the world's leader in way of life. And this is where we can always diverge into conversations about where we've fallen short and our mistakes that we've made throughout our history, all of which are true and need to be acknowledged. But still we're special. We're special on the face of humanity, and I'm with Stephen protecting that above all.
I hear you on that.
What is special about the big, beautiful bill in your estimation that the country should look forward too, that the country should like? Since Elon Musk has spoken against it, what about those who have spoken for it?
What are they saying this big and beautiful about it?
Okay, that's a tough question. I'm not sure there is a lot that is special. Do you ever get to special by compromise? Do you ever get to special by the messy issue of making a deal. But I do think there are very smart people who are singing its praises.
I'll give you two.
I think Stephen Miller is brilliant. I think Scott Bessant, Treasury secretary, is brilliant. And they lay out three things tax cuts, wasting fraud cuts, not to the level that Elon wants, but wasting fraud cuts and potifying the protection of the border. Those are three things they like. Now on the most important thing is if you're gonna have deficits, but you want to try to reduce those. The argument is the way you do that is growing your economy
and the tax cuts grow the economy. Bessant believes we can run deficits at three percent by growing the economy three percent, and by cutting taxes, we supercharge the economy into growth of three percent. That's the way you reduce deficits, even if it's not the cuts that someone like Elon Musk wants through Doge.
There's one more thing, steven A.
And if you're really in the business of educating your audience, it's a little bit boring, but you have to understand a reconciliation bill is not a budget bill. It's not an appropriations bill. There's only so much you can do through reconciliation. There are other places to make cuts. Two of them are recision. That's what the President says to the Senate, I want you to make these cuts. They
go back and they formalize them. There's one right now for nine billion, which is not enough, and that's tiny in the grandscupe of things, and the other's appropriations and all those great people you mentioned that Trump hires heg Seth. That's where I've taken issue with you. By the way, steven A, my friends, Pete hagg Seth, a Secretary of Defense, Sean Duffy oft Transportation, on and on, every secretary of every cabinet looks for cuts, asks congressome, this is the
budget that I need. Institute these cuts and that's what we'll get through areas. It's not the end of the story, just because it's not in the one big beautiful bill understood.
And by the way, I'm gonna save your platform to bring up Pete Hagig Sith when you call me on your show, you you do that. I got no problems with the man. I haven't land based at the man at all. I've just talked about what his ascension represented. There was a bigger deal. If I saw Pete Haigseth, I'd walk up to him and say them, I have nothing to get you. You served our country with on that distinction. I got no problems with you, my man.
I was just talking about what it represented. I mean, damn, that's all I'm saying. But we'll talk about that another day. My last question to you, because I know you gotta go and I gotta go as well. If this elon Musk and Trump fiasco brew haha, doesn't simmer down if it gets ugly. Are you've already said this is not good? How bad could it possibly get for Trump and the
administration and our government? If Elon goes nuke per se and somehow gets even worse than he has already gotten, especially considering the fact that Trump acknowledged all the access that he had throughout the White House, access to files and things of this nature, What the hell of that?
What if that happens? Will Kane? What if Elon Musk gets uglier?
I think there's limited damage for Trump. There's a floor on the amount of damage that Musk can do to Trump, and there is much more potential loss for Musk. First of all, Musk does have government contracts. I don't think he cares as much about ev tax credits. He's incredibly passionate about space and NASA and SpaceX, and he stands to lose on one of his biggest passions should he make a complete enemy of the President of the United States.
I also think Musk will run into a credibility issue if he keeps doing things like the accusations around Jeffrey Epstein or impeachment and Donald Trump. Look, the American people voted for Donald Trump. They didn't vote for Elon Musk. That doesn't mean there's a lot of people that might have been persuaded to his side because of the influence of Musk. But in the end, he is the man that's elected to the president of the United States, and I think there's a floor on the amount of damage. Look,
how about this, Stephen a name. This is you and me and other sports metaphor standing at the plate. We're batting against I don't know. We're batting against Garrett Cole, and he's thrown every pitch he's got what's left In the end, we're hitting everything. Donald Trump has seen every pitch, every single pitch. Are you telling me Musk has one that hasn't already been thrown. I think there's a floor on how much damage.
I'm saying, we don't know that Will Will the man is worth over four hundred and fifty billion dollars and he got close to Trump and close to the White House administration.
I'm saying I don't know. I mean, I get the point.
It's a legitimate question that you've asked, albeit rhetorically. I'm saying the possibilities of a potent answer might be out there.
It might be something we haven't seen. We don't know what this guy, we don't know.
For the record, just for the record, as we're putting this down, just prepare yourself because more likely as an outcome is you have one big, beautiful makeup session and these two guys get back together.
I got you, the one and only Will Kane, The Will Kane Show, four pm Eastern Standard Time, Fox News, got ratings already rivaling Prime Time doing this thing, And I'm gonna come on your show soon because i owe you so. I've been on the road the last two damn months.
I owe you. I owe you an appearance on your show. Man, Thank you so much for taking time out of your business.
Sched it all right, thanks Steven, Ah.
All right, buddy, you take it easy. Interesting respector right there from Will Kane. Obviously he thinks it's a relationship that could be amended, things could get better.
Who knows. Donald Trump has forgiven people before, so the likelihood is that he'd.
Be willing to forgive a man worth about four hundred and fifty billion dollars that donated over two hundred million dollars to his campaign and that of other GOP members. This is what Donald Trump is capable of doing. After all, or president vice president in the United States of America once said some very incendiary things about him, and he's the vice president of the United States of America. Said some really ridiculous things about Donald Trump in the past, and Donald Trump gave him.
So that's what That's what their position is. Now. Let's hear from the other side.
My next guest has been called the voice of Black America. He hosts the daily political show Rolling Martin Unfiltered.
He's been here many times. He's a friend.
God love for him, even when he gets after me. Okay, I'm talking about the one and only.
Rolling Martin in the house. What's up, big Time? How are you man? How's everything going?
Bro?
What's up?
I wore the coldest in the BDHUS fraternity shirt today just for you.
There you go, there, you go with yourself. I'll leave it alone. I'll leave it alone because we got Musk and President.
That's the Flyway signal seesus.
I got you, I got you. Listen with Trump and Musk.
What were your thoughts when you saw this spat unfolding everywhere yesterday.
Well, we always we knew it was gonna happen.
When you take to narcissistic, egotistical, deranged individuals, they are going to clash.
It was inevitable.
Donald Trump can't stand anybody that gets more attention than he does. And here's a guy who gets more attension, owns his own social media platform. We know true social is a joke. Uh.
And he's got way more money than Donald Trump.
They were going to class and so I was sitting here watching chickens coming home to roost, and I was really, this is really, this is how I was operated all day. I was sitting here going, Okay, what's next, what's next?
That's what you were doing?
That's what Oh yeah, cause it was. It was.
It was beyond lafel to watch these two idiots going back and forth. And it shows you that Donald Trump, I do not call him president. He is he twice impeached, criminally convicted, fella conbin and she uh. And it goes to show you that he does not have the demeanor nor the.
Authority to sit in that Oval office chair.
They can yell all they want to about Joe Biden and his mental acuity and his cognitive decline. But guess what, you didn't see a grown man who occupies the Oval office acting like a spoiled little brat, going back and forth with a with a donor.
Well, let's talk about that donor for a second. That donor also happened to be the head of DOGE Department of Government Efficiency, who facilitated billions of the But you talk about you know they what did they say?
One point seventy five billion.
They claim that's the same they saved that. But then when you actually said, when you actually get what actually came down, most even Republicans say it was barely one hundred billion in so called savings.
Now I only bring that up to ask this question, Roland. He wasn't just somebody mouthing off. He's a guy that's worth over one or four hundred and fifty billion dollars. He's an individual that was empowered by Donald Trump himself and the Trump administration. Obviously, some of the decisions that he made led to federal employees being cut. Let's make sure we recognize that. So he's been harmful to some degree.
So with all of that being said, how bad do you think this situation could deteriorate into because it doesn't seem like it's just back and forth Banta or whatever. It seems like some real damage could be done. I'm wondering, what damage do you think could be done to Trump? What damage do you think will be done to the country in light of what's going on right now, if anything at all.
That's what I'm asking.
First of all, it's not gonna be damage to the country, because let's just be perfectly clear. If you're Eli Musk from a business standpoint, your business does it exist without federal dollars? And I broke this thing down on my show, like I love these people. I love these black people to talk about, Man, we got due for sale, due
for sale, pull ourselves up by bootstraps. And I said, you've been seeing them thirty two billionaires through thirty two corporate CEOs who went to Saudia Ranger with Trump.
So elon Musk, SpaceX Tesla.
When you talk about the loans that he got the contract, so he needs In fact, his company Testa loses money last year without the government.
If the government doesn't buy the.
Vehicles of his vehicles, he loses money last year, So he needs the government. Okay, his tax breaks that he gets from states and from cities as well.
Now, who's done on Trump? What do you lose?
He can't afford to have a high profile person who can we know who has manipulated the Twitter algorithm to turn that against him, and so he was greatly aided by that. And so when you have these two people clashing and then it's dominating the news cycle, all these
things happen. So don't be shocked to see Republicans and other domers trying to broker a peace deal a daytime because you got Speaker of Mike Donson trying to get this big beautiful deal, which one of my paelents call a BBL a big beautiful lie going through the Senate and then back to the House. And so it's in Paeril, and so that's what's happening right now. So this becomes the centerpiece. Oh, it's gonna be great chaos and I'm just gonna sit here and enjoy my popcorn.
Well, listen, I think you're gonna do more than that, because you are a preeminent voice in America, not just Black America. As far as I'm concerned, I love talking to you, and I know that you ain't gonna just sit back eating your popcorn, even though you clearly eat my brother.
You do eat man, you big boy. But here's my question to you.
How do you feel, we know how to right feels about this big beautiful deal.
What's your issue.
With the big beautiful deal.
Educate my audience to the specifics about why the deal may be may not be big and beautiful at all in your mind and in the minds of liberals.
The first and first and foremost, and the position that I take is I've never called myself a liberal or conservative.
I call myself a voter.
And I look at this purely through a I can look at this through a human lens. The people that will greatly benefit from this bill are the richest people in the country. The people that will be hurt are the poors. When I listen to look, I am a Christian. The Catholic Church that I grew up in was founded in my grandparents' living room. My wife and is an
ordained minister. I'm a Christian book author. And when I look at evangelicals who are silent, who are saying nothing about the massive cuts on how it's going to impact the poor that it's greatly offensive to me. That's why I stay at Bishop William Barber and Repairs of the breach and the Poor People's Campaign and their efforts against this.
When you look at.
The cuts to snap benefits, when you look get the cuts to eight hundred and eighty billion dollars to medicaid, when you look at the impact when it comes to women having children, all of that is real to what to be able to make permanent the Trump tax cuts from twenty seventeen that benefited the richest in the country. Please, is that actually what they need? When you look at this, that's what it speaks to. When you've got Republicans who are voting on a bill that prevents states from regulating
AI for at least a decade. I'm sorry, how did that get in the bill? The other day I was reading that the assertion in the bill that will required banks to pay back crypto investors before they paid back depositors if there's an issue with that bank.
But when you start looking at this bill and looking.
At all of the perks in there for the rich and how it hurts support, it's a problem. If you cut eight hundred and eighty billion for Medicaid. You're going to be impacting rural hospitals. You know that's gonna hurt a lot of the white folks who voted for Trump in rural America. Not just rural black folks in black ones in rule America, but rural white folks. We saw what happened when this took place in North Carolina. I'll
never forget. Bishop William Barber was at a parade and is redneck with a Confederate flag.
Drinkeed over his shoulder.
Walked up to Bishop Barber, and he said, with a tear in his eye, Bishop, you know, I gotta be honest with you. I don't agree with a whole lot, but thank you for trying to save out hospitals. And so the problem we have is the brokest, stickest places in America are the reddest. So people always talking about black folks vote against their interests, probably all these white conservatives who are voting.
Against their interests.
They're cutting education, they're cutting health care, they're cutting government benefits. Who takes advantage of that more than anybody else? Broke white people in America West Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia.
So those folks.
Should be up at arms, because trust me, they are going to be severely hurt if this bill gets through Congress.
One could easily argue, based on everything you just broke down, that it should be easy for people in this day and age to see the light and to rally up against what we're seeing from this quote unquote big beautiful bill and what we're seeing from the Trump administration thus far. Nevertheless, when you talk to the folks on the right, they seem to be not worried at all about.
Folks on the left because they accused of votes.
On the left for not having any kind of vision for America whatsoever.
Talking about the Democratic Party.
Ain't talking about Roland mart And they're talking about the Democratic Party.
What do you say to that?
Do you believe that this is an opportunity for the Democrats to pounce on, to capitalize off of the gate we gain some seats in the House and the Senate, or is this one of those city situations where you think that the Democrats will miss the boat and drop the ball and not take advantage of this particular moment where Trump and the GOP seem a bit more vulnerable.
Well, it's what you're sitting right now. First and foremost, the twenty twenty six election is a long way away, and so what you have to do is and I've been telling people that's why I don't waste breath on twenty twenty eight. Even right now twenty twenty six, I FoST in twenty twenty five. You've got state races happening. You've got googlatorial races in Virginia. You've got mag Lieutenant Governor Winston Sears, a black woman running against former congress
Woman's van Burg. On the Democratic side, the Democrats right now control the House and the Senate. If they control if they keep control of the House, Don Scott, my Alpher brother Pleasure in Texas, A and m Pile mccron remain Speaker of the House, Luise Lucas remains in control of the money in the Senate. If Democrats control the governor's mansion, they now have the trifecta. And now they can actually pass a deal that will then enshrine and
the return of voting rights for the formerly incarcerated. So as a perfect example, now New Jersey, their good latorial primary is on Tuesday. Mayor Rosbaraka is running, then you, of course down it's a very blue state. But that's right now. Now, what then happens after they got a mayor only election in New Orleans. We've seen major elections
and other places around the country. So look, you saw a black Democrat being a white Republican in Omaha, Nebraska, and that person was a two tournament combany.
So you've seen what Republicans have actually lost some seats.
Here's what Democrats have to do. You can't just say Trump is full of crap, which she is. You can't say the Republicans are all about the rich, which they are. I mean, the facts are the facts. You also have to lay out what your agenda is. And if you look at polling that polling data shows that a lot of people are not happy at all with national Democrats.
But when you start going down ballot, that changes.
What has to happen right now is you're gonna see for twenty six where you're gonna have individual candidates.
Do I believe Democrats are gonna take back the House. The answer is yeah, the Republicans only have a three or four seat majority.
But so you're gonna have individual key. You think the Democrats gonna take back the House. Yeah, I think the Democrats gonna take back the House. Okay, right now, go ahead. You have some you have Republicans.
You have you have Republicans who are in purple seats districts that that Biden won that they are very concerned about losing, which you have now. And Democrats are doing very smart by going to Republican congressional districts and holding town halls because the Republicans don't want to hold the town halls for fear of getting cussed out by their own voters. So basically be doing a lot more of that.
But you also have to be articulating what is your agenda. Frankly, Senator Chuck Schumer of the Centiminari leader has been very weak on this. I haven't heard a lot you see a little bit more from a Democratic House. In the Hai, King Jeffries, his problem is he doesn't have He can't do much. Schumer could literally stop appointments. They can stuck they You can do a lot more with the Senate rules.
You can in the House.
What the House has to do with Jeffries has to do and get his Caucus to be doing, they've got
to be far more vocal. And as Congresswoman Maxine water centerm on the show last night, she said, we should be taken to the streets leading protests, doing sit ins because you have to raise awareness of what is happening when you talk about the destruct the destructive path that we're seeing the you know right now, stephen A, they are threatening with to stut down the education department that is gonna impact a program I had him on last
night where first generation students, mostly people of color.
Uh, they will be losing those benefits.
The program is one point two billion dollars and it's gonna impact at more than a half a million first time college students. So don't you think we would want first generation folks being able to reach the American dream.
They're gonna cut that program out if they shout down a Department of education.
That's the brain dead stuff that happens. And the hard part is that when it's being talked about. That's why I can't watch the cable networks because they talk about process process. No, on my show, I talk about real people, how a regular person is going to be impacted.
Your students, student loans.
We're talking about mothers, fathers, single dads, single moms, So we have to talk about policy that impacts the regular person. As my man, the late Joe Madison said, you got to put in where the goat can get it.
Democrats times I use that, you know, have you had, if you've heard, if you've watched me on first take, I've used that line several times, you know, crediting the great, the late great Joe Madison, godrest. So give it to them where the goats can get it, no question about that. Real quick answer to this question, what should folks prefer, like whether it's the Democrat or the Republican party, what should the folks prefer?
More seats in the House or more seats in the Senate?
If you had to get one, particularly these mid terms coming up over a year from now, which one.
Would you prefer to have? The House of the Senate?
No Senate.
The reason the Senate because the Senate is the one that confirms federal judges. Those are lifetime appointments, so that always the Senate over the House. The problem is the map does it benefit Democrats and benefits Republicans?
When you look at the seats they're going to be opened now.
Republicans are desperate to get a strong Republican to run against Senator John Osof in Georgia. They want to take that seat. Governor Brian kimp has Alread announced he's not running. They thought he was going to be the best choice. Democrats should really be focusing like a laser on Tom Tillis in North Carolina.
And if they do that, they better.
Take their asses to the Black Belt in North Carolina, which is east North Caro Carolina. Vice President Kamala Harris made a huge mistake so that President Joe Biden Democrats keep doing this. They keep going to western North Carolina. You split the North Carolina map, they always go West Charlotte, Mecklenburg County, Riley Dorm. But guess what the votes are in black Belt in East North Carolina.
So you got that going on as well.
You've got potentially a Democrat could run against Susan Collins in New Hampshire, but the matt favors Republicans, so the likelihood Democrats have a better shot at retaking the House, and they do the Senate, but they could pick up some games. And again Republicans they want to take Osoft off out in Georgia, and so I can tell you
right now, put a number on it. You're gonna see minimum minimum one hundred and fifty million, two hundred million spent in Georgia alone to take Center osoft off out. He knows that, and he's preparing for it. And Democrats got a gourd for that battle.
Let me get to a subject near and dear to me, because I only got you for a few more minutes, and I wanted to get this out of the way. Back in January of twenty twenty four, I was one of the first to say on this very show that I thought Joe Biden was too old to serve a second term. It wasn't just age, it was what I was seeing. And of course I got blasted. You were one of the people that blasted me. Yes, my man,
Roland Martin, God on me, ladies and gentlemen. Now Jake Tapper has the book out, Original Sin with Alex Thompson.
I'm sure you've read about that, talking about the president's the former president's decline per se, anything you want to say about that, Roland Martin, In, fact that you know now people are looking at you got Karenne Jean Pierre coming out with her book and she wants to lead a Democratic party and now she's saying she's an independent, And all we're gonna hear about is some of the things that we thought we were seeing with the human eye from President Joe Biden.
What do you want to say about any of that?
Roland Martin, While I got you on this show, it is unfiltered here too, by the way, so feel free.
First thing, I don't give a damn about Jake Tapper at Alec Thompson's book.
I really don't. I don't really care.
Here's the reality here that I will say, and this goes to any politician, and we've actually seen this. If you look at the last ten politicians that have died in office, eight of them have been Republican excuse me, any of them have been Democrats. We just saw Congressman Jerry Connelly who ran for reelection his cancer came back.
We saw my frat brother Loved Them Dearly Houston, former Houston Mayor's Vester Turner, who ran to replace to take the scene of congom with Suba Jackson Lee, who ran herself and then later died of pin created cancer, and so politicians need to be honest and people around the me to be honest.
Sometimes it's time to.
Go, so you can actually leave with dignity and grace. And my concern is that like the images of Robert Bird and strom thurmon Ben wheeled around and held.
Up I mean, we know what those images looks like.
And so I hope politicians need to be honest to learn and let go of power, but people around them also have to have to actually be honest. Do I believe Do I believe that Joe Biden was an effective president? The answer is yes. But here's the issue which you're talking about. People are raised the American presidency. It's not just about how you can make decisions in an office out.
Of the way.
It's also about the projection of power. It's also about how you agree. It's also about I mean, people don't people don't understand how much the presidency it's really about that what Americans want, and he was one of the biggest races of all time. But the reality is what Americans want. Americans want John Wayne in the old office. They want when the American president walks in, they want to see it. One of the reasons why we've always
lected Paul presidents. People don't understand how these things are impact. So part of the issue for President Joe Biden was.
The appearance of being feeble, taking his time mumbling.
We know he also was a stutterer, and the reality that image doesn't fit the image of how Americans see a president.
We know Trump is nuts and crazy.
People like, oh, he's brash, he does this here and even though he says crazy.
Stuff all the time and me doesn't focus.
On He is all about the image of strong, tough vigor, and that's what we have to recognize. And that was a huge, a stomach block for people around Biden and for him and.
Jill as well, and they didn't see it.
And whether he likes it or not, they can get mad all they want to with being forced out.
And it was an.
Awful three weeks, but that debate was huge, usually problematic and vote lost confidence. And guess what when people lose confidence, whether you are the American people or a husband and a wife, whether you're a player and your coach Tom Thibodeau, guess what when the people lose confidence in you leading, you can't roll.
I got to tell you this, I got to tell you this before I get on out of here. I got to tell you this. My problem with the Democratic Party right now. What I'm seeing is I like, well, I'm a fan of Wes Moore Maryland. I think that Josh Shapiro should have been a VP selections.
It's in Waltz. That's my personal that's my personal opinion.
And we know that we've got governors from the Democratic Party that can run for office, that could possibly, that likely do a hell of a job. I don't see anybody on the left having a national presence to win an election. I know you ain't thinking about twenty twenty eight, but I'm bringing it up now because I'm thinking. I'm saying, I'm just a I'm saying that. I know you didn't want to bring up twenty twenty eight. You said you didn't want to talk about it.
So so let me unpack that. Let me unpack that.
I'm just I'm just looking. I'm just looking at you. Go ahead, good, please go ahead, all right.
Study the last forty years. The last forty years, very few individuals who become president have a national presidence.
So again, let's take this thing back.
Reagan runs for Reagan becomes the governor of California. Okay, he runs for president. He runs for president and he loses.
Okay. Carter was the governor of Georgia. He wins.
Reagan wins in eighty after being the governor of California, ran for president lost.
George H. W.
Bush is the only one. Yeah, long time ago memory. He was a member of Congress, he was vice president. You go to ninety then you go Bill Clinton, governor of Arkansas. He gave it speech at the Democratic National Convention in eighty eight. People thought his career was dead. He wins the president in ninety two. What happens in two thousand? Texas Governor George W.
Bush.
Obama was a state senator and trust me, the only reason all those bills got passed.
They credit him. That was the Senate President e. Neil Jones. So he was a state senator, becomes a US senator.
So the reality is the people that become president, they never have a national presidence two three years out that actually deals when they announce and then you begin to run nationally.
That's just what hasn't.
Has it that changed? But has it?
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying has it that changed? People keep talking about the climate. We never thought there's nowhere else with the years of Gary Hart and John Edwards and all this stuff. There's nowhere on earth that anybody ever thought that a guy like Donald Trump would be the president of the United States.
But here he is, not just once, but twice.
And so when you look at it from that standpoint and you see the maga right in the influence they appear to have, don't need doesn't it need to be something a little bit different in order for the Democrats to reclaim their position?
No?
No, because the reality is Trump is an aberration one he was. He was created by Jeff Ducker and NBC with The Apprentice, that false notion.
He's also created by New York tabloids. Okay, only reason we.
Even knew about Donald Trump because they kept putting them in the media.
Steven, I'll tell you this point blank thing. But then when I was said, when I was at CNN, I'll never.
Forget he Woo Woodson was interviewing him, and I went to the one of the bookers, Tephany contoob I was like, why the hell y'all got him on? And oh, whatever, he's on he does great rating.
I said what I said, he's full of crap, and actually I was awful. You got to trip out for this. This is no line.
I was on with Heidie Phillips on CNN. We were talking about it and I said, this is what I said. Now, wish my folks at CNN will find a.
Clip that sent it to me.
I said, anytime Donald Trump comes on CNN, we should run a crawl at the bottom that said for entertainment purposes only. The executive vice president of Seeing in Ken Jout sent me in email said, don't be critical of Trump when he's coming on our air. Donald Trump was a media creation. You can't find any other person that the media, national media, newspapers, magazines.
Would prop up.
So the reason Trump is so different is he didn't have to go a normal route because national media created Donald Trump.
And so if you look at.
From twenty eleven when he was flirting for running, he runs in sixteen, that was five years he had already had this national persona that was already created.
So he is a media creation.
There's nobody else the media has elevated in that way who I.
Believe can do what he has done in running for the Obal Office.
So I'll let you get on out of here. You heard Steve Bannon call for Elon Musk to be deported.
How do you feel about that?
South afric don't one of his ads. So you know what, here's the deal. Sure, sim to el Salvador. Uh again Steve Bannon, Steve Bannon also his credit. He called this and and and he.
Saw what was going on there because Steve Bannon was Elon was Elon Musk for Elon Musk. Trump ran him out as well because he was getting too much attention. Uh.
And so again it's it's hilarious to see what's going on.
Uh.
You know, Bannon is an anti globalist. He thinks that that's what Musk is.
Uh.
I'm more concerned about uh. And I gut it is probably stop now. Pro Publica had an amazing article Stephen Ali cent Toia where the Trump administration was pressuring African nations to sign contracts with Elon Musk star Leak. Gambia was like, absolutely not. They were pressuring that small nation. And that's what Trump did to the South African president when he was in the Oval office.
Uh.
And so this administration was using the power of the United States Oval Office in order to drive business to Elon Musk. Hopefully all of that now stops since these two have fallen out. But that to me was a shameful thing that a lot of people didn't talk about. I had the Republican reporter with Republica on the show. Uh, and again African nations were being pressured by Trump's team to give star Link contracts to Elon Musk.
That was foul.
So hey, someone else that would do it as a whaler.
So so my last question to you would be this, you got this stuff. I know I ain't that true because because I'm with you, Because I'm with you, last question, I swear with this stuff with Musk and Trump?
Is it going in the end? Is it going to benefit the Democrats?
It will? It will? Uh, it can't hold.
Look, it can benefit Democrats if what it does is it with Musk's criticism and if he uses his voice in Twitter and platform to keep exposing the negative elements with their lot in this bill, that's going to create pressure on Republicans to vote for It's already you already got gotta remember they're trying to pass it. The reconciliation they need a majority of the votes. You've got four or five Republicans who've already said I'm not supporting this bill.
Senator Ron Johnson, hardcore mag out of Wisconsin again was trashing it. Sener Rampaul of Kentucky vote states that voted for Trump. So if all of a sudden, if he starts saying, look at this crap, look at this crap, look at this crap. And if he keeps saying how this is going to increase the national debt, yeah, it can be problematic. So if i'm if I'm Democrats, every single I'm doing I'm doing a David Letterman Top ten list.
I'm if I'm.
Speaker Jefferson, I'll Senator Schumer, I'm getting me a David Letterman top ten list. These are the worst things today in the big beautiful bill. Because you have to educate, enlighten and inform people. All we hear is big beautiful bill, massive bill. The average person, Steve to Day ain't sitting here breaking this bill apart. And you're not getting that
on seeing in MSNBC and the Fox. So the Democrats should be doing that, And what that does is put pressure, Oh that y'all know this was in it, and this and this. Now call your congressman, call your senator. That has to happen, and.
So most can actually do that. If he starts doing that.
With Twitter, yeah no, call it X, then it could be a huge problem for Republicans to pass this bill.
So yeah, this bill could very well die.
Appreciate the education. Appreciate you always educating me. Appreciate you getting on sable when you love that because I kind of love it. I kind of love it. It bothers me.
I know you got love for me, even though you don't want to admit it half the time.
I appreciate you.
I appreciate that.
Thanks a lot.
Now with your the white suit you had on in Oklahoma City, it.
Was pretty damn fly. Stop acting like it wasn't fly. Come on, rolling that was pretty damn flaw like that.
Come on, I was like, damn. I was like Steve May looked like Bennie hen.
May. Get out of here, man. I told you later, the one.
And only rolling more and rolling more and unfiltered on YouTube, don't miss it.
The Voice of Black America. Appreciate your big roll up you man. Thanks a lot,