My next guest made headlines recently as he and Jet's quarterback Aaron Rodgers have exchanged critical takes on each.
Other this past week.
He's a super Bowl champion, he's a TV analyst, a host of the award winning The Pivot podcast, and he's my brother.
The one and only Ryan Clark is in the house right here. What's going on? Big time? How you doing man? How's everything?
What's up? My guy? Listen?
I'm out here in South Bend, Man just getting ready for the college playoff game. But you know, when your brother highlan At you needed to get you on the show, you show up.
Damn right.
I appreciate that because I would have got on you if you avoided me, because I understand because this is going out there. Know the Dames get ready to go to against Indiana. Your son Jordan plays for Notre Dame. We'll get into that in just a second. But before I do any of that, I want to start off by reminding the audience why I asked you to come on here today. Earlier this week on the Pat McAfee show, the One and Only Aaron Rodgers had this to say, referring to you listen up, say.
Whatever the fuck you about me. I don't care, but just before you do it, whether you state your name, your accolades, pronouns, whatever it is, just state your vacked status so that anything you say afterwards gets put in the right light. Just get it out there, because then when you say things about me, people can at least be like, oh, you are captured by the multi billion dollar propaganda siha, and you're still upset about Okay.
This will help things. Yeah, this is good, this will settle it all done. I appreciate that.
And uh, hey, you know what I mean. Just put that in the just so everybody knows where you're coming from.
You gave a four minute response over social media. I played half of that here the other day. As we sit here today reflecting on what you said about Amaron.
Rodgers, talk about why you felt the need.
To respond to what he had to say and what kind of message you wanted to send everybody.
Yeah, I think the first thing, steven A, and you know it like I do. When we talked about that on first Take that day, it was really the first time i'd actually heard what he.
Said on Pat McAfee.
And when you mentioned our network ESPN while being on our network ESPN and many of my colleagues that are former players.
Then I feel like I have the right to respond.
And you know, he addressed me during that PSA on Pat McAfee. He never used my name, but he mentioned obviously the lapel pen with my initials. And I think the part that rubbed me in a way where I felt like I had to respond was the whole vaccination thing, because I feel like he uses that to get those people who are of like mind when it comes to whether it's back vaccination, partisanship, whatever that is, to try to ignore the facts. The facts were that what he
said was hip critical. The facts were that he has an issue with people talking about his play in a negative way when that's what the film is telling us. And you know it like I know it, stephen A. I've said a million times to you on your show. I think he's the best quarterback I've ever played against. But that doesn't in any way negate what we're seeing
from him now. And then the arrogance, the smugness, the entitlement he displays as a person when it comes to people who object or people who see things differently than him. I mean, I'm just tired of it, and I'm tired of people allowing him to say whatever the hell he wants to say whenever the hell he wants to say it without in any way pushing back. And so if you can come for me and my colleagues, I can respond, and I have no issue standing ten toes down on whatever I say.
It was hard for me to, you know, push back on his right to clap at you orc not about his game, but when we won on first take that day. You know, you're very highly intelligent, brother, You're very selective with your words. You know exactly what you're saying, you know, and you mean what the hell you say?
And you called him a fraud, And.
I want you to explain, expound on why did you feel the need to go to that length. And based on you saying that, do you feel like that gave him the right to respond to you the way that he did?
One first off, he absolutely has a right to respond to me in any way that he wants to. Is he a grown man, stephen A. And you know, like if you feel some type of way, like you get to say it the same way I get to respond to him.
Now, what's different about us is.
The things that I say about him will be viewed from a professional perspective, Right, I am an NFL analyst, and so in responding to Aaron Rodgers, I need to be able to respond with facts. I need to be able to respond with things that are true. I can't just come out and insult his fashion. I can't just come out and say things that make zero sense, like your vaccination status, Right, I can't.
I don't get to do that. I have to be factual. I have to be to the point. I have to be clear.
And so, yeah, like if I call him a fraud, he can respond to that. But you are a fraud if you're sitting on ESPN being paid by Pat McAfee, who later admitted that he pays him because of what having Aaron Rodgers on his show does for him. I was in no way, I ain't no way got a problem with that. But to call out former players while on a former players show, Yes, that makes you a
fraud to me. To secondly come back and say that you got to state your vaccination status, because your vaccination status tells me what perspective and point.
Of view I view Aaron Rodgers from.
Like, that's bullcrap, like it's absolutely you know, Like that's not why I feel anyway about him. Kirk Cousins, who was extremely honest about his vaccination status and staid that he would not receive the vaccine, is one of the more well liked players in all the NFL.
Is a player that we all know and.
Respect for his honesty, for the way he approaches the game, for the way he approaches people. He in no way receives any of the criticism he receives for his play based on that. Aaron Rodgers needs you to believe that, because he needs us to believe that he's still the same dude he always been. And the one thing that I did in making sure I spoke about Aaron Rodgers from an unbiased perspective was I included none of the stories.
I know about him from people who have played with him, people who have coached it.
I want you to start right there, because I see you're too good looking, bro to be having the phone cutting off half your head. I need you to remove it. There you go, right there, right there. Now, we see it. Now, we see you all your life. You don't have a hell on the hide like I do. You don't have the het of God, like I do it right. But but listen, let me, let me get back to it, because you brought up Aaron Rodgers in terms of you didn't bring up some of the things that folks have
said about them. Let's get to the nuts and bolts of it again. You played we I didn't. A lot of folks that talk about it didn't. But you talk about how you've spoken the players, You've spoken the coaches.
You're inside those locker rooms.
You work on Monday Night Countdown, okay, doing Monday Night Football for ESPN, your NFL Live, a contributor, you contribute to that show. First take, get Up. The list goes on and on. Plus you got your own inside the NFL show. All right, you talk to a lot of people in the NFL. What are the stories about Aaron Rodgers that would make somebody like you say he's a fraud?
Like I'm you know, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna say that's truly out of respect for you.
Like those are those people's stories got to tell?
Okay?
And I don't want to do that because I think it now opens up a different conversation between me and Aaron Rodgers, which right now, which right now is him saying things that are very superficial, very surface level, and it's me continuing to do my job in a professional way. And I don't have a personal issue with Aaron Rodgers. And I also know that, like and you know me well enough to know I probably moved differently than Aaron Rodgers.
I could say this to you. I reached out to Pat McAfee because there were some parts of Aaron's you know, sort of appearance on this show where you know, jealousy was brought out, and you know, Aaron says at the end, you know, there's a respect level, and that's why Pat McAfee can get certain guests, and that was why end my response to him, I listed the sort of people I've set down with on the Pivot right.
And so I think part of.
Part of the piece that made me call Aaron Rodgers of fraud is his continual deflection of things that matter in order to feed his fan base, right, in order.
To get people who are like minded, people who.
Would want to rail against someone like me, to find a way to get them to do it, you know, to talk about like what my vax status is. I mean, and you know to say that you looked it up. The only thing I ever said about him was he was deceitful. And of course, stephen A, I am vaccinated because I don't have a spleed, I don't have a gallbladder.
My immune system is deficient. But I think, to tell me what meeting you've been in right where we've said before speaking about Aaron Rodgers, make sure we speak a certain way because of his back status.
That never happened.
That's never happened.
And so I think the other big piece for me is to sit there with Pat McAfee and continue to behave.
If you're somewhere in some way being railroaded.
In some way, a narrative is being driven about you outside of what the play is. It is fraudulent to sit in front of the TV and pretend to build up teams and teammates and then to behave in locker rooms in ways I have been told he behaves.
Yeah, it makes you a fraud. Own it, Own who you are. Own the times you've gone.
To the front office to talk about players because they aren't behaving in a way that you want them to. And I think all of that to me is things I don't.
Agree with with about Aaron Rodgers.
But as I said as well, also stories that are supposed to be inside the locker room.
Ryan Clark, as a football analyst, tell us what we have seen from Amaron Rodgers this year on the football field.
Compare yeah to what we're pasting to see.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the first thing, Steven is we should be seeing something different. He's a forty one year old coming off of Achilles. We see how that has hampered Kirk Cousins. But what we've seen as a slower decision maker, what we've seen is a guy who's mispasses that he normally and that we've seen him complete. We've seen Aaron Rodgers be the reason the New York Jets have lost football games.
And all of those things are fair to say.
Is their defense missing pieces that has not made it as good as it was in years Aaron Rodgers was there, Absolutely, But Aaron Rodgers has gotten everything he's asked for. There, stephen A, you wanted Devonte Adams, we got you Devonte Adams. You needed Alan Lazard, we got you, Adam Lazar. Garrett Wilson was a guy that had thousand yard seasons without you. This is a team that was full, that was seven to ten last year with Zach Wilson at the helm, that has to win three of their games to equal
that win total, to equal that record. We've seen below level play, and I think at some point, you know, people are going to point to the stats. Right at the end of the season. He may finish for close to thirty tubs, he may finish at eight to ten interception, and they're going to say, Okay, this is play you can win with. But it's the twenty first QBR in all.
Of the league.
And when you're behind, you get to throw the ball as much as you freaking want to. And so I just don't think that he's played at a level that has elevated the New York Jets.
And he also hasn't led at that level where you see the.
Frustration from Garrett Wilson on the sideline, When you see Garrett Wilson and he having the training cap arguments that they've been having.
That's a problem.
When you talk about Robert Salah being fired, part of it is Aaron Rodgers play.
Part of it is also Aaron Rodgers leadership.
It's Aaron Rodgers rhetoric, and to me, like, none of those things beget a leader, especially with the experiences that he's had in the NFL.
Let me get a little person, know what you in this regard when he talks about former players implying that haven't done what he has done, I want to go macro perspective and extend beyond Amaron Rodgers, because I'm quite sure he's not the only player that feels that way when receiving criticism over the airwaves. My attitude is this, Okay, it's the media you get to say we never played.
It's pundits and commentators, et cetera. But in your case, in a case of swagu our colleague Marcus Spears, the Dan Alawski's, the Cam Newton's of the world, the Shannon Sharps and various others that we're blessed to work with every single week.
Right, y'all have all played. So it's like, how is it as a.
Former player hearing a player say to you all, who the hell are y'all?
When you're actually one of them? I don't understand that. How do you take that?
I mean, isn't that part of the arrogance? Though? Stephen A.
Is it that part of the fraudulents that if you aren't saying the things that he wants you to say, now, let's compare resumes. Now, let's compare the things that we've accomplished careers. And I get it right, it's a way to deflect from what the true issues are. Like for me, I'd say, hey, let's sit down and break down the field. Then like you know, let's watch it. Let's watch you throw the football inside to Mike Williams against the Minnesota
Vikings and lose that game. And then part of the fraud piece for me, stephen A is calling Mike Williams out after the Bills game for not running down the red line. You tell me what leaders, what good quarterbacks do that that throw their other players under the bus. We watched this man do that, and that's part of why I called him a fraud.
And so to me, like.
Him calling out former players doesn't bother me. Right, it goes along with his lack of accountability, It goes along with his feeling that he is above reproach. And piece of it is right and is that there are some former analysts who won't call him out about certain things. And so now, when I reply in the way I do, or when I have the feelings I do, I'm the anomaly, right Like I'm the guy that's wrong. I'm the guy that has a problem with him, when now I'm just
a dude that feels a certain way. So I tell my truths and so he can say all he wants about us.
I think what I found hypocritical about.
It was that he was on the show with a former player, with two former players, actually a show that employs another former player in Darius Butler. And so I think for me, it's bro, you're sitting up here getting paid money by Pat McAfee to do the exact same thing that you're railing against.
And that's the bigger problem.
From a macro perspective.
You being the host of the Pivot, y'all been doing a great, great job making major noise. Major props to you guys as well, and your career especially. You've really ascended and you deserve everything. Let me take that back. You deserve more than you're getting.
I'm gonna say. I'm just gonna say it.
You deserve more than Okay, but I say this to you as you look at the media landscape that you are now a part of, and you analyze and witness today's culture compared to what it used to be. How concerned are you, maybe not for yourself, but for the industry at large moving forward? Knowing that these athletes, it seems their sensitivity level has heightened enormously, probably because of the advent of social.
Media and yes, is coming from everywhere.
How concerned are you about that having dare I say, a negative effect on sports moving forward?
Yeah?
So, I think the biggest thing that happened, stephen A, is that athletes will try to lessen the authenticity and honesty of our voices. Right if you listen to the way Aaron Rodgers attacked me in his second appearance on Pat McAfee. He didn't attack my words, he didn't try to attack any facts. What he tried to do was win the emotional battle. He tried to discredit me by saying there's no way that he's being honest about me because he disagrees with my vaccination.
Status, which I don't. I don't really care. It's your decision, it's your body.
But instead of saying, hey, Ryan Clark is wrong about me being hypocritical because of X Y and z Ryan Clark is wrong to call me arrogant because of x Y and Z. Ryan Clark is wrong to call me a fraud because.
Of x Y and Z.
See, that is what athletes will do now, they won't have to combat you with facts because, in truth, stephen A, outside of people like you, maybe you know Shay Sharp, the current athlete is more popular than I am.
The current athlete is.
More popular than swagou is, than Dana alovski is and those sorts of former athletes. So I don't really have to be truthful. I don't have to be factual. I can use the emotion of the fan base I've built based off of the skill in my sport. And I felt like that's what Aaron Rodgers was trying to do. But I'm not scared about what this means for media because we all have to adapt, right, we all have to adjust.
I mean, look at yourself. You're the biggest name in sports media, in linear.
TV, and you're now creating this platform for yourself that's amazing, created by you, controlled by you, because you do understand the media landscapes and the way that it's changing.
And I think that's what we all have to do. We all have to be able to evolve.
But I think even if you look at my four minute response that I posted on social it gives me an opportunity to take control of the narrative of self, the narrative that's being painted of me.
And you know, I appreciate those opportunities as well.
How mindful and cognizant or should I say, how much does it really affect you and how you go about the business of doing your job on an everyday basis, considering the growth and the maturation that has taking place in you when you look at the pivot, you look at ESPN. Listen, we have a voice. We always call our c we always call. We want to hear what you have to say. We want the audience to hear
what you have to say. You've been on me, You've been on TV with me on several occasions, and there's times that I could say something, I'm going like this, Now, let him say it that, let him let him speak on this. He's more qualified, because it's important that your voice is heard. How mindful are you of that now at this point in time in your career on a personal level, then you were, say five years ago, ten years ago.
I'm very mindful of it, to be honest, Stevine A like, I think about you often, you know, and I get to talk about you a lot because everybody that's the first thing I'm always asked, and always.
Like, man, how you how you deal with.
That dude, and always tell him Nobody in that building has stood up for me the way that you have. Nobody in that building has advised me in that way I said. He's taught me so much, whether it's by actual advice or being able to watch. And I think the thing that I've learned stephen A, is like, these are the things we ask for by working hard, right.
You want your voice to matter right. And what I've learned.
Is the other side right, the people that push against the things that we say. A lot of times, they show me that I'm on the right path. They show me that I'm where I want to be. And I do get what I represent. I represent the next former player who wants to be Ryan Clark, the next former player who wants to have the platform that I do.
And so that's important to me that I represent that in the right way. But it's also important.
To me that I stay authentic It's also important to me that I remain myself, and I think that was a big part of my second response to Aaron Rodgers.
And I can tell you this and share it with you.
I had actually done something the day before afterwards, and it was before Pat and I text message, and part of it involved Pat, not in like a disrespectful way in any way, because I have no issues with him, but it talked about his show, the platform and you know, him giving Aaron Rodgers the space to say those things. And I didn't post that because I was like, nah, as a man if and I have no issues. If Pat and I have had these conversations, he doesn't need
to be involved in any way in this response. So it can be skewed that we have a problem because I recognize the power of my voice and the way that people will try to attack and critique and pick apart everything I do, and so I took you know, I made sure to be smart about that. Also in my response to Aaron Rodgers. I made sure my tone was a professional tone. I made sure my words were
fact factual. I made sure I didn't insult him. I thought about the first response on first take, and I said, well, I feel like a lot of these things were taken this way because of my wording right fraud eric it.
Let me be extremely careful.
In how I do that and make sure that my words are as poignant as possible, because I understand the voice and like I worked for this, I earned this, and I want to protect it as well.
How much does your son, being a college player at Notre Dame right now about to play the night by the way I guess at Theiana win this game.
How much does your son, knowing.
He's in the sports world, he's a player, how much does that affect how you speak and how you disseminate messages to the masses.
Masses at this point in time.
Do you know what's funny about it, stephen A, Is when I didn't post the thing I recorded that involved Pat, I was actually done right. I was like, Man, I'm not gonna say nothing. I'm gonna let it go. I couldn't go to sleep, stephen A, because I felt tried, like I felt like he tried to play me, and like I had no resolve, like I didn't speak for myself. And I think that matters to me more when it pertains to my son than what I say in the
media as it pertains to analyze in football. I want him to know that we always have to worry about the self respect. We always have to worry about the last name. We always have to be concerned with the authenticity. We always have to know that when we look at ourselves in the mirror, we were true to who God made us to be. And I think that that's the most important thing for me and as far as him.
He has a podcast here called The Irish Scoop. And I was walking down the hall last night and this lady stopped me and she goes a white woman actually, and she says, I love everything you do on TV, and I one hundred percent agree with you on what
you said to Aaron Rodgers. And then the last thing she told me was and I love your son's podcast, you know, and like for me, man, that meant the world to me, because you know, I've worked hard in both careers and for him to be doing both of the things that I've been able to feed my family with and to be doing them at a high level and to have people.
Take recognition of that really is a blessing for it.
You know, Listen, man, I mean I wanted to bring you on the show because you're my brother. I love you, and I know I will vouch for your integrity all day, any day, any time of the week. And I knew that you came across professionally and what have you.
But you had to claim that because I know how you roll. You ain't backing up for you nobody. I know You've been there. I know this.
I know this all right. But listen, man, before I let you get on out of here. Since I got you here, man, I need your help. I was gonna do these quick takes by myself. I got a couple of NFL games to get to you, and I got a couple of college football games to get you. Oh, by the way, I don't know if you know this. You know I'm going to steal his Ravens game tomorrow. You know I've been I've been invited. What side you're sitting on, No, no, no, I've been invited as.
A guest of the governor. What's more, I'm a personal guest to go.
So we rolled respect that we rolled into the game together. You know, you know me, I'm going I'm not trying to sit in on stands. I'm not trying to sit on.
You said your owner's box at the Chargers games.
This is true, and I'm not apologizing for it.
And I'm gonna try to get as many of those seasons I possibly can'tnot see. But let me ask you this, I mean, are you gonna be a Benedict Arno or remember you a Pittsburgh Steeler? That's where the Super Bowl was? The Stealers the Ravens Saturday. Lamar Jackson can't beat the Steelers, lost eight of the NAT nine last meetings against the Stealers and stuff like that.
What's gonna happen? Who's winning?
You know what? I think the Ravens get this one.
When I look at the way this team is played down the stretch, they kind of short up some of the things in the secondary.
But what scares me.
Is no George Pickens. You know, look at this. Look at this offense the last two weeks without him, no explosive plays. Can't back defenders off of the offense. And the other piece of it was when you go back to the first game, Lamar Jackson had some opportunities to use his legs and he didn't, And he said his mom told him he had to stop that. And that makes me scary because the called quarterback run worked when
you used against the Pittsburgh Steelers. And we all know how electrifying Lamar could be when he gets outside the pocket, and if he utilizes those things, it could be trouble.
Kan's City Chiefs, Texans.
I got the I got the Chiefs even with Patrick Mahons hobbled man. Patrick Mahons won a Super Bowl hobbled steven A.
I know, I know, and I will I will say this, the Texans have a chance.
They could turn the football over. What scares me is there a protection of CJ.
Stroud.
This offensive line just hasn't been good this year. I think that's a big piece of why his numbers are down. He started to rush a little bit, not the sort of poise we saw from him last season. Even in the win last week, they weren't explosive in the past game.
So I believe the Kansas City Chiefs doing.
Uh, let's go to college football. Man, we're talking about Indiana and not the Dame to night. I mean, I know you gonna pick Notre Dame. That's just son.
But the inclement, whether the snow.
And all of that stuff you don't expect that to have.
A negative effect in any way.
No, I mean both of these teams can run the football. Indiana is so precise with what they do with signetti and the way that they use their quarterback offensively such a system quarterback knows exactly where to go with it. But we can run the football. Jeremiah Love and you'll see it tonight.
Steven A.
I think he should be an early Heisman favorite next year. He's just a dude, explosive to score.
In every game this season.
Riley Leonard has continued to improve since that NIU game.
I think this game is close.
I believe it's low scoring, but I expect the defense to make enough plays. Look for zero Xavier, watch the best safety of football to come up with the turnover. And I think this is a game. And we move on to the Sugar Bowl January first against Georgia.
How much how.
Much, I mean, how much do you work with your son and how and how tricky does that get? Because sometimes, I mean you might in other words, for us that the average person out here doesn't play. You'll look at You'll imagine a player are playing for a particular coach and the coach telling the parents to stay away. Still on the side, let me do this, But you can't say that to when the dad's the god's father is a Super Bowl champion.
Okay, that was in a secondary for crime out loud.
Yeah.
So I've trained him stephen A since he was in eighth grade. We were driving to school and he looks at me. He goes, Dad, I want to play college ball, and he's like, I want to play receiver. I was like, well, Pops, can't really help you with that, Like I think you should play receiver in high school too, but let's train DV.
And so I've been doing it his entire career.
I'm the only DV trainer he's ever had outside of his coaches. I remember with grade every play from high school football and give him his grade.
We go through the tape. But now that he's in college, I backed off. I'm not one of those dads that's on the sidelines.
I don't go to practice when parents aren't invited. I don't stick my head into meetings like I don't do that obviously. Coach Free and I have a good relationship, like I text him each week and we talk about just mindset of football, but we don't talk about Jordan.
Jordan has to control his own career.
Last question for you, Tennessee number nine at Ohio State.
I have been of this mindset. I'm not in the.
Caller for people to get fired. I'm very selective with that. Okay, you gotta really be bad. Ryan Day is not bad. Sixty six to ten.
Career record for crying out loud.
But he's lost four straight years to Michigan at the Ohio State.
And if he's not a part of the national championship.
Picture after having a twenty million dollar roster courtesy of nil in the transfer potal, combined with the fact that you had eleven players that were considered an NFL caliber.
That returned to your guard this year, if you can't, if you lose tomorrow night on ABC after losing the Michigan for a fourth straight time, Ryan Clark, I don't know how he could keep his job to that.
You say, what, Yeah, I don't believe he can. Steven A.
I think one, Ohio State's tired of losing to Michigan.
Two. When you have the best roster money can buy, you have to produce. Tennessee is a good.
Team or sec team only two losses this year, but Ryan Day and Ohio State Buck guys should win this game, especially playing at home. I think if he does not only win this game, but end up being in the final four of the college football playoff picture, I think Ryan Day will lose his job and there will be another head coach at Ohio State University.
Ryan Clark, Man, appreciate your time wishing your son Jordan good luck tonight against Indiana.
Know to Day, Thank you Indian.
Appreciate you taking time out of your business schedule to come on and talk.
To me and rap to me. Man, really appreciate all the best to you.
I'll see you so my may I love all right and only Ryan Clark right here on the Stephen A.
Smith Show.
You heard what he had to say, you can respond accordingly.