Jerry Stackhouse

miracle for the next hour. Seems like the Denver Nuggets of closed their practice facilities as coronavirus numbers are on the rise, and players like Ian Desmon are becoming vocal social activists with Instagram posts that will forever change our lives. For a time where there's very little sports being played, it sure feels like a lot is happening. So I continue to talk to athletes and sports industry professionals about what they're doing during this very weird time. Someone has

to keep track. This is the Sports Bubble with Jensen cart The name Jerry Stackhouse is synonymous with basketball. He's considered to be one of the greatest players to everwhere in the North Carolina tar Heels Jersey, leading the team to the Final four in a season when he was named the National Player of the Year by Sports Illustrated and was a first team All American. And then well,

he played eighteen seasons in the NBA. A first round draft pick by the Philadelphia seventies sixers, the hype around a player commonly referred to at the time as the next Jordan was deafening, and yet he somehow was able

to deliver. With more than fifteen thousand career points, he was one of the decades premier offensive threats, averaging almost seventeen points a game in his career, and keep in mind that average is over almost twenty years, including a two thousand season in Detroit where he averaged twenty nine point eight and scored fifty seven against the Bulls. That's

still a franchise record. He's a two time All Star who has now taken his career to the next step as the head coach of the Vanderbilt Commodores, an SEC basketball team with more attention than ever thanks to an impressive young roster and a high profile coach. On this episode, I talked to Jerry Stackhouse about recruiting in a pandemic, the possible racial bias he saw against teammate Alan Iverson, the difference between Michael Jordan and Lebron's leadership approach, and

the video for de Las Souls stakes as high. It's a conversation with one of my favorite players of all time in the sports bubble, from Jerry Stackhouse, Headman's basketball coach at Vanderbill University, to accept press one Well, I wanted to start off by saying, I know some states have been loosening up, so I'm still asking people where you've been quarantined and with who I've been quarantined, mostly

in Nashville. I've recently come to Atlanta as a home there, so I've been spending a little time they're trying to do a little spring cleaning, but other than that, I've

been between those two places, Nashville and Atlanta. It is crazy, too, because when I started this podcast like three and a half months ago, it was such an easy question to ask where you quarantine, who you with, And now it feels like, even though every day we're learning that the numbers are higher and higher, we're all sort of just tiptoeing around. Is that how it feels in Atlanta as well. Yeah,

it feels them, Yeah, in all those places. And man, just think we we almost feel like we live in a bubble that it's not really around us, and we're kind of moving our own space, feeling like, Okay, the COVID is over there, it's not where I'm at. We're seeing that the numbers are saying that that's not accurate, and we all probably need to be a little more

careful than than what we are. But again, in the stake of trying to get things back to some normalcy that we all are trying probably trying to force this is you a little more than we should. I agree. It does feel like we're all sort of creating our own bubbles and trying to decide. You know, it's almost like we know the experts, we know the things that are happening, but also like every fifteen twenty minutes we're getting new information or being told certain things weren't right

in the first place. And it's it's very hard to follow, no doubt. I mean, it's hard to figure out what's what's true and what's real. I mean, like I said, I gave us some, you know, some pretty standard things to do with the social distancing and you know, staying six feet I mean that really accurate. Should we should we? Should we be ten? Or are we safe to to

be at three? So I just think it's, uh, you know, so much information coming in on a daily basis, but hopefully we all stay in tune and make sure that we And I like listening to Dr Faucci and the CDC, the folks that spent their whole life, you know, committed to these types of issues. So I think they're they're the experts, and hopefully everyone start trying to listen to them a little bit more. I'm in the same boat as you are. I wanted to know how you've been

passing time. And there's a reason because considering since you were even before a teenager preteen, I'm not sure you've went longer than a few weeks your entire life off of a basketball court or something not related to basketball. Even when you were announcing what are you doing with out basketball in your life? Well, it still revolves around

basketball for me. Now it's recruiting, being able to get on zoom calls and you know, with potential prospects and recruits as well as uh, communicating with our own guys, our current current guys, make sure that they're in a healthy mind state because it's so much going on like that. The COVID is one piece of it, but you know, with the social injustice things that are going on, things that are playing out, you know, right in front of

our eyes. You know, it has everybody a little more conscious and a little more awake about, you know, things and what's going on. So I mean I've been I've been dealing with that, trying to figure out a way that I could you be impactful, you know. You know, I felt like I've always tried to use my platform to to give back and to be able to create opportunities for for people coming forward, you know, whether that's

you know, African American, different different minorities, for women. You know, when you look across the my my roster of my staff, you see all you know, all ignis seas and I think that's the that's important. You know, people are just trying to make it a sexy thing to do right now, but you know, I think we all have to dig a little deeper and try to have an impact. And it's tough because I mean, with everything going on, it's just like I'm almost numb, like what what can I

do to really have an impact. I'm looking for much of my mentors to say, Okay, this is the way that you know, we should you should try to proach things. And at the same time, I know that people who that look to me for some of that same leadership and making sure that I'm giving them something to be able to grow with as well. So it's just just

just challenging times right now. But at the end of the day, we hope that we will get back to basketball and get back to some normalcy and making sure that um mentally that we're you know, we're prepared to do so and talk to our guys, you know, trying to make sure that they're eating right and they're still working out, because okay, one day we're gonna come out of this is let's make sure that we're still ready to pick up and and you know from where we

left off in the spring. Yeah, and and you you say that, but you know, it's difficult to keep NBA players in shape, fit and focused. I mean it's a little more difficult with students not being paid for their job. I mean, have you found it easy to keep tabs

on your players. I mean, our guys are hungry, and I think that's the pro players and some of them, you know, they can take a stance of being more you know, drawing the line of being a little more I wouldn't call it militant, but just being more proactive to the social issues that that are president right now, you know, more so than you know, the college kids can. I mean, they still have aspirations of obtaining that type of status of being able to play at that next level.

So I think they're a little bit more you know, eager to play a little bit more eager to get back into the gym. But I think still just being smart with it and making sure that we're giving them all the information and more so than just the physical stuff, just to emotional support, just the mental support. And our guys have been in a good space. They've been doing a good job with our staff with player development sessions and making sure that they're able to divorce their opinion.

And you know, we got our guys are eager. They're eager to get back to campus. They're eager to get back and have an impact to do whatever or protests and really smart kids. But now it's just about making shooting. They channel all of that energy and the passion that they have in the right direction. Yeah, and you brought up recruitment. I wanted to know with you head coaching

at Vanderbilt. You guys announced a big signing with a four star prospect, Peyton Daniels last week, and I wonder how difficult recruiting has been for you during this completely new pandemic world. We have no real house visits, probably less scouting reports. You're depending on YouTube more. Do you feel fully equipped to do this as much as anybody else? You know, solid in charge at orders, unprecedented across the boards,

So I think, you know, we have. You know, we've been really proactive and getting guys on on zoom calls and FaceTime, just making sure that we're connecting. Maybe even more so then we would if you know, everybody had a crack out of them. You know, Well, maybe it has a little bit of advantage because some of the guys that we've been on that we followed through the high school season, you know, a lot of other coaches hadn't been able to you know, really see these guys

all spring. You know, most of these guys going into that senior year. You know, they kind of blow up guys that hadn't really been on the radar, you know, because they played all summer and that gained that momentum going into that senior year. And so I think there's some guys that are you know, floating under the radar, and hopefully, you know, that could kind of be an advantage for for us, because you know, we had to look at two components who don't just look at the

you know, the athletic piece of it. The academic piece has to be important too. So we've identified guys that that fit the deal for us for what we want to have on the court. But even more important, you know, how are they're going to be able to function in a competitive environment, you know, academic as well. Yeah, and you know the way the NBA works nowadays, you can go for one season in of college, you can go overseas.

And I'm wondering how much it comes up with these you know, high school seniors about expressing concern about the tournament being canceled again or not having the full college experience and looking to overseas and just get it done and get into the NBA. Are are you kind of fighting it a little harder than you used to because

of the pandemic. Well, I think for some of these kids, and I think you have to be kind of in tune, you know, and just kind of here, not only just from them and their parents, but from from their support system and a you coach a different people around and you can get a feel of the ones that you feel that are trending into war possibly you know, skipping college completely. You know, the G League has offered a different opportunity for prospects to be able to maximize financially

from revenue standpoint, right out of high school. So I think, you know, it's it's important that we figure out this name, image and likeness in a situation sooner rather than later. So it's not that you know, we lose and you know, top talent to to the G League or or any

other overseas. Other guys have been going overseas recently. But I think that that was kind of the the idea of the G League to make sure that there was an opportunity or where our talent you know, here in the US does not have to go abroad to still be able to continue to improve from the standpoint of the basketball skills, and and and and have an alternative,

you know, other than college. I mean, and I'm cool with it, but I think that there's still enough student athletes and parents who want to college experience, who want an opportunity to you know, receive a you know, first class education as well as you know, compete at a high level, you know, like playing playing the power Fier, playing in then SEC. So there's always gonna be challenges, But I think at the same time, we've been trying to battan as well as we can. Yeah, and you

brought it up a little there during the pandemic. Some news did get a little buried that the n C double A looks like it's making you know, head room for college athletes to get paid for their likeness as someone who had their U and see jersey everywhere. Would you, I mean, what do you think of that? Is that an ability you wish you had back when you saw it all over the place? Yeah? I won that. Can we go back, you know, get some more, uh, you know some of those royalties off of some of those

for two jerseys that that was rolling around. But I just think it's we have to find a way to you know include players. I mean we're seeing it more and more. I mean, we're are kids, and whether football or basketball, at the end of the day, most of the student body is not back. But those you know, these guys are back because they understand the importance of sport and how a lot of you know, colleges and

universities you know, rely on on that revenue. So I think we you know now, but up until this point has always been okay, it's the universities, the coaches that everybody else. Now it's it's some talk about how do we include the kids, how do we include the product? And it's a lot of smart people that if they really wanted to figure it out, I'm pretty sure we're

getting to figure it out. Agreed. Yeah, I mean, I as a forty year old man who's still obsessed with NBA jerseys, yours was the first I own, the first professional jersey, and you had a wildly popular jersey, not only just because you were who you were, but I think the timing of rappers starting to wear jerseys and it becoming more of like a fashion trend happened at the same time you were drafted. Was that insane for you to see them everywhere is basically coming out of college.

Well yeah, and again it's like it's almost like that you expected somewhat because of the success of like you saw those nor tail anew jersey when you know, you walk in the foot locker and it's like, oh, that's my jersey the four too, but you know, and and actuality, there's really was no name on the back of it.

So I think that's the kind of what you what you see and and but but for me, I'm just hoping that that let's figure out a way too to do it, because it's it's not hard, and I think it's just a matter of a lot of old rules that have been in place so long it's just time

for them the change. I think we were seeing that with you know, just social injustice across the board and and believe me, a lot of the underlying issues we see there, you know, all started a long time ago with some of the same racial and social issues that we were dealing with back then and we're still facing

right now. I want to ask about that, with the country focusing on the racial divide and racism and the murder of George Floyd, do you have a plan as a head coach with your athletes to talk about how they would protest or have their voice heard in college sports. Well, yeah, I mean we're really listening to UH players and some of the things. I mean, I actually had an exercise where I've had them write a paragraph for as much as they wanted to about how they feel that they

could be impactful. And we had some really good ideas from our kids and wanted to promote some grouts on the jumbo trying for games. Some wanted to talk about, you know, actually staging a protest or some sort. And I think that's where we helped them as adults. We allow them to be creative because they're really smart. But at the same time, they still need some guidance and they still need the belts to be able to help

them set the table. But we have to listen to them and kind of left them, you know, steer the ship a little bits as we moved forward, because I just don't know if we change people who have been and just kind of ingraining them for most of their life. So where we have to do is try to educate this current group and the group that's coming after them. And I think that's what we want really see the significant change. And I was thinking from your perspective as well.

You played with Alan Iverson on the Sixers, and I constantly think about him and how the NBA treated him in the prime of his career, whether it was the dress code that was thinly veiled attack on him, or photoshopping out his tattoos on media kits and just really like categorizing him as a thug. Did you guys all notice that when it was happening. Was that something that

you guys were sort of cognitive of. Yeah, I think we were all cognitive of it, but I think there was at the same time we were cognitive who was the major sponsors of our league? And I think, you know, David Stern or I think he did a unbelievable job

of marketing in the league. And I mean at the time, it felt like the best way to market our league and our players was to be able to you know, present as as professional Little did we know that that black culture, or the culture of hip hop was even more just does you know prevailing to to to a lot of kids as um, you know, seeing somebody you know walk up in a suit, I mean as a kid, I mean I enjoyed watching knowing that once I have become a professional and I could be like Michael Jordan

and where for a suit to work. You know, not all kids had that same assurrations. Some guys, you know, some kids we want to do were baggae jeans and white T shirts with bandon in the corn rolls. That wasn't necessarily me. You know, I grew up in the same neighborhoods as these kids. You know, we all just are different. And I think that that's what you know, Adam has embraced that, you know, tremenduster. Then guys be individual and you see where the Russell Westbrooks and the

different guys not really taking it. You know, it's taking on a life of its own just from standpoint of a fashion, um to, where's something now that you know we're all proud of as opposed to years back that we just didn't feel like that was going to, you know, move the needle. As far as marketing, I playing, So I have no fault with with David cern and his thought process. At that time, um it felt a little yeah. I mean you're looking at it in now where where

everything that's going on. You could almost say it just felt somewhere in racial but at that time being a part of it. And I was like, Okay, we were coming from a bad place in a late seventies early eighties where we were was thought of as a drug league and you know with you know, cocaine, you know, running the rampid within our league. So there was had to be some some efforts to clean that up. And I think, uh, we cleaned that up and came one

of the eight to tame billion dollar industry. So you've got to get credit whereas due. But at the same time, I think it's we're seeing now that that could have been a little bit more balanced there. Yeah. And I also want to go on record, I'm not proud of all of Westbrooks outfits. I'm proud of some of them. Okay, all right, just as long as we're on the same page. Uh, you left U n C early for the draft, but you promised your mom and Dean Smith you would graduate

what you did. You had a degree in African American studies. I think one of the things that a lot of Americans are surprised by, especially white America, is just the like the whitewashing of our mainstream history books. Most people had never heard of Juneteenth until an episode of Atlanta or this past week, or the Tulsa massacre until they saw it on Watchman on HBO. With your education and with your background in in sort of this subject, how

could this be changed? Is this Is this the time that we finally get a middle school with Juneteenth in their history book? Is that possible now? I hope? So, I hope that's the next phase of bringing together one history book. I think there's been a push for pop to try to promote, you know, more African American history books, and I pushed against that. I'd rather be a combination of our history, you know, and to the point that

we're it's all combined. I mean, if we really tell the true story, I mean, we know the story that we were at about sixteen twenty Christopher Columbus coming over on the mayfly and all that, but they need to talk about what, you know, what really happened, you know what I'm saying, How when they came over on and make ship, what did they do? Who did they take

it away from? So I think when we, you know, stop trying to hide behind all of that and really tell tell the truth, and we'll be able to really

embrace the history from both sides. When you were in college and you were learning that stuff, did you have these eye opening moments the kind of the rest of America's having now with Juneteenth and these sort of terms and things that you guys have faced as a race man, I never heard of Juneteenth until about, you know, two weeks ago, I mean honestly, and I just never something that was wasn't in the history books that I read. And I think that's the it, that's the problem. You know.

I can, you know, I can. I can sing the gingue right now in my head the year sixteen twenty, the fields came over the good ship made flower brought them across the seat. That was the thing that they were being brandon In my head, that was, you know not it should not be a proud part of our history.

More with former NBA star and current Vanderbilt men's basketball head coach Jerry Stackhouse after this right now, Feeding America is working tirelessly to ensure our most vulnerable populations, like students who are out of school, the elderly individuals whose jobs are impacted, and low income families continue to have access to food and other needed resources during the COVID

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Jerry Stackhouse. You've got some headlines this past month about playing with with Michael Jordan's during his Wizard come back, and I know you you've got a much older version of him, but but I wanted to know, as someone who played with m j and Lebron, what were the biggest differences in their abilities to lead when you compare them. Well, I think it's I mean, it's just different leadership style

and it's no one way. And I think that you know, Michael was just you know, he was driven them and he pushed them alope, pushed it hard and it was just like it was almost manic at highly approached things. And I think Lebrone was the same way, but he just decided to have a little more fun, you know. I mean he was and I played played with him and just you know, seeing him in practice and he was just he was jovial. I mean when when the lights came home, did he lock in and he gets

series a losie. But I mean he wanted to enjoy his teammates. You want to enjoy his experience. And I think that, you know, it shows that both ways can work. Obviously has tremendous success and probably you know, Argaly one of the greatest players in the history of the game.

But I think Michael, you know, his his fans is like, okay, you know you want to be starching and everything that you do, you just want to be driven and and and he showed that to the point of um sometimes alien ag and some teammates or you know, even in

some ways maybe abuses them. So the teammates. But I think depending on your perspective or who you're a fan of, your kind of side on one way at the other, would you say you were friends with Lebron and would you say you were friends with Jordan when you played with him? Yes, yeah, I was friends with both. I mean I think I spent time spent you know, I had dinners with Lebron and his his crew, uh and and you know, Michael and kind of this his entourage,

the guys that I was there with him. You know, we went to Benner and we've you know, we've enjoyed each other and enjoy company and our time together, you know, on the court. And I think people tend to think that that goes together just because you don't have and that's a great chemistry on the court, doesn't mean that you you know, we're are arrivals and just couldn't couldn't get along and have dinner and have last or you know, go up to his room and play cards or whatever.

You know. I just think when you speak honestly, I mean, most people just try to lie because of players, you know, great players and icon and plays, and they just want to make sure that they don't go against the narrative of what they think that those icons want to hear. But I can only speak my truth and what I saw, my perspective, what happened, and that's the truth I'm gonna

always tell. Sure, Well, you're now coaching Scottie Pippen Jr. And I figured that has to be an honor for Scotty Senior to respect your game enough to encourage his son to attend the school and learn under you. Is that is that something you kind of took as a as an honor? You know, Scotty has always been a

big stand man. I mean, you know when he was on the ESPN and I was up for him, you know from NBA job Scott he was always really pushing because he did see me work, It's seen my my path and kind of grinded to get to that point. And then all of a sudden I get the jobs and the building was going to find out that this sun that committed. So I was like, obviously he could have laughed and went anywhere that he wanted to because it was a coaching change. But you know, it was like, uh,

this was you know perfect for my son. And then for him to come in and have the year that he had last year, um when you know, not being on anybody really radar, you know, but I think he was you know, three started, Maybe he wasn't on any preseason you know, NCC freshman team, and all of a sudden he comes in and make all freshman team and he learned so much and I just I think he's gonna be really, really good. I'm hoping he gets those side inches in between his freshman and sophomore year like

scott He did. And if that happens, then it's a rap because he's a mean he has pro talent, and I just think that's what once his body catches up with the You know, you see Scottie Jr. Playing the pose as well. I love it. I've loved watching him on YouTube. You had a Vanderbilt player Aaron Nay Smith who declared for the NBA. He's likely a lottery pick, uh, And you hope for guys like him that these late

leagues get back into shape after COVID. We are talking a day, a couple of hours after DeAndre Jordan has come out as positive to COVID. Spencer Dinwiddle as well, these they're dropping pretty much a couple of day out of the league because of it. When you read these Disney World plans and positive tests, would you feel comfortable if you were still playing in the NBA to to to join this season, Well, I just know the importance

of um playing the season. I think that's what these guys have to understand not only just the emotion and everything that goes on. It was just as a clause is in the contract that collected collectively bargain contract that that they don't play the season, and as an opportunity FORLIDA to really open up everything and could change the same es and everything as far as how do you've got to go moving forward? So you know, it's just more the Yeah, there's some risks here, and I think

that on the league. You know Adam, you know, he's working on some of the foremost scientists and doctors to make sure that they're trying to cover as many basis as they can. I mean, you hear these you know, one, two off, maybe even three cases of COVIE. I mean that that's expected. We understand that, and it's just about how do we navigate around it. And it's just I mean, the reality of it is, you know, in the finals, if Lebon James gets to COVID, you know more, he's

not gonna He's not gonna finish the finals. But I think it's it's still worth getting back out there and trying to do it because the whole as much greater than the parts. Yeah, that that contract is something that comes up and has to be thought of, obviously beyond a lot of just the sickness questions. But I guess we usually end with something a little more serious and something very stupid. But my stupid one this week, I

feel like it might be pretty important. But I want to know when when you're coaching these these kids, they have the rare opportunity to play with one of the best players, in my opinion of all time incredible basketball player in Jerry Stackhouse. What is the question they ask you the most about your NBA experience? What is what is it from your life that you're questioned, uh the most about by the players? Um no, man, I think

it's you know, it's different. Kids have different questions, and the guys actually want to understand, you know, how I played so long. You know, I think that's one of the things I talked about. You know, it was because I was able to you know, reinvent myself. I came in as a high draft pick, you know, as a young star in the league, became an All Star and then doing even doing the next phase in my career.

I been you know, came off the bench, you know, had different roles as of a locker room guy, even though I still played, you know, my final year, but I was really brought in to be a more of a mentor for for younger guys. So I think that's the way you have longevity and to continue to reinvent yourself and not get so locked in and as I'm this, so I'm that you could be this, so you could be that right now, but I know that you know

that that can change. Unfortunately, in basketball and professional sports, they all fungible assects. You know that the new ones are coming eventually, so no matter how long you go. And I was able to play eighteen years, then it's just, you know, set the record of playing twenty two, but at the end of the day, the twenty two is over. That's not that's not fair to compare. He's not a human being, that's a that's an actual robot that you're

comparing yourself to her. Man, it's eighteen and a whole lot long way from twenty two, not at all, not at all. And then I think it's just as a mindset, I was ready to go on to the next stage. I feel like I probably could have played four more years and in a similar role that he he did, but it was more about probably trying to win him.

He really embraced us, you know, and I don't know if I would have had as much interest playing for the Atlanta Hawks at that stage in my career, specially the fact that neither one of us was able to win a championship. You know, it got close, but still I would have been trying to still strive to to get a ring. But to each his own. I think what he did and how he mentored those young guys is admirable and obviously doesn't do anything to tarnishes you know,

Hall of Fame career by standpoint. Sure. Well. Lastly, as a hip hop head, I wanted to ask you about something that I think about all the time, which is one of the greatest rap songs of all time, day Law Soul Stakes. As high you show up in the video you played basketball against day Law. What what do you remember from that day of shooting? What's a classic music video? Man? I just remember it was fun just being able to note that I kind of arrived here.

I come from, you know, a country boy from North Carolina to now I'm in a Dayline Soul video and it was cool. Man. I got a chance to meet those guys and you know, I met Common. He was just he was a young guy in the rap game at the time and we just started ying and you see how his ca real is taken off and the note that you you know, for relationships with guys, there's so many different Basketball has brought a lot of people together.

But it was definitely fun. Man. I can look back and see myself with it with a little bit of hair. It's always cool to look back and reflect them. Well, we were all watching it. We're in your jersey, Jerry. Thanks so much for talking to me, and stay safe and uh look forward to seeing your team back out on the court. Thank you, man, I really enjoyed it. The Sports Bubble is produced and distributed by tree Fort Media. The show was executive produced by Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman,

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